Just for good measure, since no western media or youtuber will tell you the full story of what happened in 2021 which lead to all this fury, here it goes. In 2021 China swimming association held a national gathering, meet of all swimmers in competitive level in a single city. While the swimmers were there, the Chinese Anti Doping Agency (CHINADA) tested all the swimmers 3 times during the duration of the event. They found 23 swimmers with trace amounts of TMZ in 1 of their 3 tests. They promptly started an investigation which determined that the reason only 1 of their 3 tests were positive was because all 23 of these swimmers were staying at the same hotel. Then they checked the kitchen and found trace amounts of TMZ in the meat, in the kitchen counter top and vent hood. All this were reported to WADA. Then WADA did 2 separate investigations of their own which confirmed what was found by CHINADA. So to recap, 1) it was not WADA that did the test but CHINADA, if China wanted to cover it up, they simply could have not reported it at all. No one would be the wiser. 2) The TMZ found was trace amounts and only in their blood test after that meal, their initial blood tests were also completely clear. 3) Pan Zanle, the 100m swimmer and current world record holder, was not amongst those 23 swimmers. This whole thing was not an issue until the NY times dug it up and made a stink, then USADA got US congress involved (not sure why since they don't have jurisdiction). Just so everyone will be clear who WADA favors. US pays 10% of WADA budget annually. WADA is based in Canada, has not a single member from China. And, WADA has given last few years, 66% of all Therapeutic Use Exemptions to just 3 countries, USA, France and Australia. Just happens these 3 countries have the most swimming medals. (Made some typo corrections)
Just to backup your synopsis, I have included a link to the Wada report that goes in great details about why they accepted the Chinese explanations regarding the positive tests : www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/2024-04/2024-04_fact_sheet_faq_chinese_swimming.pdf
Already pointed out elsewhere in the comments but CHINADA tested and reported these 23 swimmers. Why report them to WADA and not sweep it under the rug? Months before the Olympics? It doesn’t compute
For transparency，who set the privacy protection rule for tested athletes who are not found guilty? Go check the history, which country has the most covered up?
@@giuseppeleveroni1914this was for team skating and guess who she helped to take out? Why was it them who made the biggest noise? In women’s skating there, all the non-Russians were hopelessly outclassed by them. The Canadian had no quality skater there
Braden mentioned Madisyn Cox & Efimova. In both those cases the athletes were provisionally suspended & the positives were made public. There’s a lot of discussion about whether the 23 positives were down to contamination or cheating. I wish there was more discussion about the lack of uniformity in the process. Some athletes receive provisional suspensions from competing before they can establish a “no fault” case while these 23 athletes (perhaps in other cases too?) face no punitive measures. It’s pretty disconcerting that anyone, let alone WADA, would find this acceptable.
How many US swimmers are on drugs thanks to TUEs? What percentage of the total that are approved for TUEs make up American swimmers compared to China? And is it really fair or natural for someone who competes with a TUE against those that don't? I think we need more discussion and transparency in regards to TUEs.
Thank you gentlemen for providing meaningful arguments in a sensible way. Wada fending off Mr Tygart points by saying that contamination also happened in the USA is a terribly low argument from an organization in charge of worldwild regulation.
Why USA swimmers end competitions with all purple faces? Is a new kind of doping? As known doping master are always a step further……remember all doping cases involving US athletes …..😂
I have heard the following account from the kitchen's chef from the hotel. "I was about to take my TMZ tablets for my heart condition when I tripped over. The tablets flew out of my hand and landed inside a very large pot of broth that I was cooking at the time. I tried frantically to fish them out but they had already dissolved; seeing the athletes starving I didn't have the heart to throw the broth away and start making a fresh one: it would've meant making them wait another hour. I decided to feed them without much thought. I am terribly sorry for the distress I've caused and I feel devastated that this story from January 2021 has made its way to the main news outlets with less than 100 days to go Paris, what terrible timing! I hope that this story doesn't taint any possible Chinese sporting success and that, everyone treats us with the respect we deserve."
lol, it was a Chinese anti-doping agency that did the report. What a farce. _...Chinese anti-doping agency, Chinada, to Wada in 2021, which said that it had found trace elements of TMZ in the extractor fan, on spice containers and in the drain of a hotel kitchen in Shijiazhuang, where the swimmers had been staying._
You have heard means just rumors, what you heard sounds phony, seems way too convenient to match the outcome. btw, where is he?? show me his medicine evidence? Without solid evidence, your story is as bad as the mislead New York Times story. But those swimmers have been clear from WADA, clear from CHINADA, clear from none-stop TESTING. that's solid proofs of CLEAN.
What I still don’t understand is why CHINADA didn’t suspend the 23 athletes immediately (per the rules) after the positive tests. It would have changed everything.
Because a country's entire Olympic team simultaneously testing positive for the same drug after attending a single gathering is not a doping scandal but a national security emergency. That's why CHINADA and WADA decided against disclosing it, as the case was most likely out of their hands and taken over by the MSS at that point. In any event, they followed contamination protocols in communication with WADA. What you're seeing now is a engineered leak from entities that know more about the incident than they logically should and are loudly pretending not to realise the deeper implications.
It's called the Chinese Comunist Party. That what drives thir program. That's what drove the East German program. They'll do anything to 'Beat the west'. Commomg from a communist country myself, I know that this is the norm. They started doing this in the 90's and have only become better at hiding it. It was only a matter of time that they would slip up. So glad they have as Qin and Pan are a little too fast and there is no appernt developmental reason for this.
I understand, China has a long history of following their own rules and ignoring the rest of the world. Plus they have WADA in their pocket and they know it so why follow the rules, why suspend any athletes? They knew they wouldn't face any reprocutions if they didn't.
It would be great if, in due course, swimswam produced a post summarising where we are on this scandal. I’m talking timeline, facts we know, assumptions made etc. Would be very nice to track and understand the topic better!
I think mel made it pretty clear where he stands but the others were a little more vague. But yeah, it would be nice if they were all less diplomatic, however that opens them up to alot of things.
@@sethaldrich6902 This is Mel, and this is my opinion (and it does not represent swimswam editorial staff). I simply want the same rules to apply to all swimming nations. Sadly, if the Chinese swim stars did suffer the positive tests due to contamination, a cloud of doubt will remain over them due to WADA's handling of this case. As an Olympian and a gold medalist, I do have a lot of emotions on this topic, and that probably came through in this pod. At the end of the day, this needs to be thoroughly investigated. Doubt around WADA and Fair Play heading into an Olympics is the last situation we want to be in.
@@SwimSwamTV Thanks so much Mel, as a swim fan and an American, I and alot of other people appreciate the honesty and the emotion. Totally agree about WADA, I know, I for one feel they didn't treat this the same as other situations and with the donations, it looks bad, like the Chinese have them in their pocket. Positive tests should be treated the same. I hope in the future these things will be handled better, properly, and universaly the same. Appreciate all that you do.
@@SwimSwamTV Just for good measure, since no western media or youtuber will tell you the full story of what happened in 2021 which lead to all this fury, here it goes. In 2021 China swimming association held a national gathering, meet of all swimmers in competitive level in a single city. While the swimmers were there, the Chinese Anti Doping Agency (CHINADA) tested all the swimmers 3 times during the duration of the event. They found 23 swimmers with trace amounts of TMZ in 1 of their 3 tests. They promptly started an investigation which determined that the reason only 1 of their 3 tests were positive was because all 23 of these swimmers were staying at the same hotel. Then they checked the kitchen and found trace amounts of TMZ in the meat, in the kitchen counter top and vent hood. All this were reported to WADA. Then WADA did 2 separate investigations of their own which confirmed what was found by CHINADA. So to recap, 1) it was not WADA that did the test but CHINADA, if China wanted to cover it up, they simply could have not reported it at all. No one would be the wiser. 2) The TMZ found was trace amounts and only in their blood test after that meal, their initial blood tests were also completely clear. 3) Pan Zanle, the 100m swimmer and current world record holder, was not amongst those 23 swimmers. This whole thing was not an issue until the NY times dug it up and made a stink, then USADA got US congress involved (not sure why since they don't have jurisdiction). Just so everyone will be clear who WADA favors. US pays 10% of WADA budget annually. WADA is based in Canada, has not a single member from China. And, WADA has given last few years, 66% of all Therapeutic Use Exemptions to just 3 countries, USA, France and Australia. Just happens these 3 countries have the most swimming medals. (Made some typo corrections)
I agree with Braden Keith and that is why I think in the pool, on the track, in the field - it is a level playing field : because those who are "clean" are not necessarily clean. We have The Clear, Lance Armstrong, Alberto Salazar for examples and olympic champions who decades later were told by their own friends that they were not really clean (I'm talking about western block athletes - Eastern Bloc are pretty clear - no need to argue about it). Those who are caught, let the officials deal with it. ' But it is extremely irritating, especially from someone from a small country or area (non russia, non china, non eastern block or western countries) to hear one-sided vilification - not only regarding doping but also politics (support of war). Personally I just look at several signs regardless of their nationalities : excessive acnes on the back, acnes on the face (females), prognathism, bitemporal baldness in females and athletes who developed testicular cancers. Unfortunately due to current excellent grooming, you won't see armpits hairs in 13-15 year old girls anymore but that is something that I have seen back in 1988 swimming (for example) who the western bloc so admire until her retirement. Other than that, I just enjoy watching the competition - knowing that almost all of these athletes are doped (either full dose, micro dose or using health excuses or whatever, either state sponsored, company sponsored or self sponsored). And I think, from the individual athlete cheating point of view, self and company sponsored are worse than state sponsored because they knowingly & willingly do it out of greed for success. The state sponsored is worse in term of human rights violation. Just a personal opinion. (oh aquatic is lucky as you don't have problems regarding "female" athletes with XY chromosomes too - not talking about trans). Can't wait for the Olympics.
Just for good measure, since no western media or youtuber will tell you the full story of what happened in 2021 which lead to all this fury, here it goes. In 2021 China swimming association held a national gathering, meet of all swimmers in competitive level in a single city. While the swimmers were there, the Chinese Anti Doping Agency (CHINADA) tested all the swimmers 3 times during the duration of the event. They found 23 swimmers with trace amounts of TMZ in 1 of their 3 tests. They promptly started an investigation which determined that the reason only 1 of their 3 tests were positive was because all 23 of these swimmers were staying at the same hotel. Then they checked the kitchen and found trace amounts of TMZ in the meat, in the kitchen counter top and vent hood. All this were reported to WADA. Then WADA did 2 separate investigations of their own which confirmed what was found by CHINADA. So to recap, 1) it was not WADA that did the test but CHINADA, if China wanted to cover it up, they simply could have not reported it at all. No one would be the wiser. 2) The TMZ found was trace amounts and only in their blood test after that meal, their initial blood tests were also completely clear. 3) Pan Zanle, the 100m swimmer and current world record holder, was not amongst those 23 swimmers. This whole thing was not an issue until the NY times dug it up and made a stink, then USADA got US congress involved (not sure why since they don't have jurisdiction). Just so everyone will be clear who WADA favors. US pays 10% of WADA budget annually. WADA is based in Canada, has not a single member from China. And, WADA has given last few years, 66% of all Therapeutic Use Exemptions to just 3 countries, USA, France and Australia. Just happens these 3 countries have the most swimming medals. (Made some typo corrections)
I remember watching Jenny Thompson swim against beasts in 94 in Rome, and it scarrred me, and I wish I didn’t see new swimmers pop up out of seemingly nowhere and demolish world records and not be suspicious, but after watching this for literally decades, how can your brain not associate certain swims from Joe nobody’s and not think “you’re a cheater”.
yep China's breastroker came out of nowhere and he looks way bigger than he used to look. The 100 free guy also kinda popped up outta nowhere in the last year.
@@sethaldrich6902 Outta nowhere? 47.29 R World Aquatics Championships Feb 17, 2024 47.53 World Aquatics Championships Feb 15, 2024 47.73 World Aquatics Championships Feb 14, 2024 47.82 World Aquatics Championships Feb 14, 2024 46.80 🇫🇷 OQT R World Aquatics Championships Feb 11, 2024 46.97 Asian Games Sep 23, 2023 47.43 World Aquatics Championships Jul 27, 2023 47.61 World Aquatics Championships Jul 26, 2023 47.84 World Aquatics Championships Jul 26, 2023 47.67 R World Aquatics Championships Jul 23, 2023 47.22 May 01, 2023 47.79 19th FINA World Championships Jun 22, 2022 47.65 19th FINA World Championships
First question: Does anyone know if this stuff even gives a healthy person a performence benefit? We all know there is a bunch of stuff on the WADA list that does not realy do anything. As a side note, your out of your mind if you think US swimmers do not dope. You think its only US track sprinters that have been doping for 50 yrs?
Just for good measure, since no western media or youtuber will tell you the full story of what happened in 2021 which lead to all this fury, here it goes. In 2021 China swimming association held a national gathering, meet of all swimmers in competitive level in a single city. While the swimmers were there, the Chinese Anti Doping Agency (CHINADA) tested all the swimmers 3 times during the duration of the event. They found 23 swimmers with trace amounts of TMZ in 1 of their 3 tests. They promptly started an investigation which determined that the reason only 1 of their 3 tests were positive was because all 23 of these swimmers were staying at the same hotel. Then they checked the kitchen and found trace amounts of TMZ in the meat, in the kitchen counter top and vent hood. All this were reported to WADA. Then WADA did 2 separate investigations of their own which confirmed what was found by CHINADA. So to recap, 1) it was not WADA that did the test but CHINADA, if China wanted to cover it up, they simply could have not reported it at all. No one would be the wiser. 2) The TMZ found was trace amounts and only in their blood test after that meal, their initial blood tests were also completely clear. 3) Pan Zanle, the 100m swimmer and current world record holder, was not amongst those 23 swimmers. This whole thing was not an issue until the NY times dug it up and made a stink, then USADA got US congress involved (not sure why since they don't have jurisdiction). Just so everyone will be clear who WADA favors. US pays 10% of WADA budget annually. WADA is based in Canada, has not a single member from China. And, WADA has given last few years, 66% of all Therapeutic Use Exemptions to just 3 countries, USA, France and Australia. Just happens these 3 countries have the most swimming medals. (Made some typo corrections)
In the podcast they mentioned that there may have been contamination in factories making the cleaning supplies (I think it was just speculation though)
@@williamnak9939 yeah that's the BS Chinese excuse. There's no way this medication can get in your food without putting it in there, but it doesn't matter, it got in these athletes bodies and so impacted their bodies making them able to train harder and better leading up to the games causing them to perform better in Tokyo, they should be stripped of their medals and those medals shoud be given to the other athletes.
@@sethaldrich6902 in the podcast they mentioned that it was a parent of an affected american swimmer that brought that theory. Factories in China are not always the cleanest and a worker’s medication could have gotten contaminated. (according to that person)
@@williamnak9939 that would have to be quite a coincidence to happen. In addition, it's not a super common medication to be taking for heart disease, it's highly unlikely that that could happen and then get 23 swimmers testing positive. Chances are astronomical. But in any case they tasted positive and that should be an automatic ban from compitions because the drug is in your system already.
@@sethaldrich6902It must be racial prejudice log that makes one not see things logically. Was that AMERICAN FED THE SAME DRUG BY THE CHINESE...POINT PROVEN. THEY CANNOT SEE BEYOND THEIR LONG NOSES.
It's sad this is the reality of our world. Full of hated, divisiveness, jealousy and dirty politics. But LOVE as well, you 3 Gentlemens proven just that, great example of fair analysis and true reports, great videos.
They are so confident that WADA has make mistakes despite the Chinese swimmers have been tested so many time more than other swimmers. What is it that made Coleman Hodges and Mel Stewart so skeptical of the Chinese swimmers winning so many Olympic gold medals? They are so sorry for the Chinese swimmers that they would be found that they were doped without their knowledge. Without their knowledge? Very interting and Incredible.😎
ARD is not a news agency. ARD is a public service tv channel in Germany with a full program on news, sport, entertainment, movies, educational program etc. New is a small part of what they do.
Any Chinese swimmer that tested positive to TMZ should have been banned from competing, let alone go and compete at the Olympics that same year and take home medals. Extremely unfair to all those swimmers from countries around the world who train so very hard, day in and day out just for a chance to compete on the international stage. Time for a major shake up of WADA - disgraceful!!
Any swimmer…not just Chinese. It’s racist to single out just Chinese people. Ironically, more Americans would be banned if this rule were applied. Statistically, more Americans fail drug tests than Chinese. I think the reason for this is they don’t take the medication as we do. They prefer TCM.
At 26:00 - completely disagree. You're discounting their doping system being subject to sloppiness, human error, admin errors, etc etc. Use occam's razor here. They are systematically doping, someone got sloppy, somehow it got out, and here we are. Did the athletes know? That's a more murky question
occam's razor doesn't apply here. Your theory is not occam's razor because it involves an implausible series of failures throughout the cheating system, and that's what he's saying. He's saying it's implausible because multiple people would have screwed up the "cover-up" if it was indeed the case. They'd have to all take the same drug, all get caught, and then CHINADA reported the positive results to WADA.
I’m very sad and confused. I am all for clean sports but the current geopolitical environment makes it very difficult, if impossible, to find the truth. I understand Mel’s frustration but I find his remarks premature.
This is Mel, and I think your comment is fair. The editorial side of swimswam will remain on the side of hard facts-- what we know right now. I'll bring more emotion to the topic as someone who swam at two olympic games. I do think WADA mishandled this situation, meaning I do "believe" USADA CEO Travis Tygart. I think WADA must provide more light on this topic...and they are, to a degree, with an independent prosecutor. More to come this story as we near the Paris Olympics.
Not only chinese swimmers, russian and other countries were involved in doping scandals, now it must be very very investigated these informations and provide the punishment necessary and before the olympic games, the problem is the chinese are very closed and dificult to give the right and clear informations to the International authorities!!!!! Lets see what happens in the next weeks
@@Freedom_and_Democracy Actually there's nothing wrong with MSG. That along with a lot of old food myths were dispelled in this information age. Funnily enough, the distrust for MSG was likely xenophobia/racism motivated.
the fact that the 23 had the performance enhancing substance in their systems is not disputed. in turn, the fact that they gained (intentionally or unintentionally) a competitive advantage against the field cannot be disputed. they should've been provisionally banned at the time, and should be stripped of their time and medals now. the circumstances under which they were "contaminated" might be mitigating factors when determining their penalties. the burden of proving "contamination" is on CHNADA, and I don't think they carried that burden successfully at all with that ludicrous story, especially considering its history of covering up. remember Sun Yang's 4 months suspension was not revealed until after he allegedly served the suspension? Thank you guys for keeping the matter fresh! let's try to keep the water clean!
I don't think there is any concrete data on the performance enhancement gained by this medication. Not saying it doesn't, but just because it is banned and offers a theoretical biological advantage, does not mean it does in real life and changed the outcome of races. This is a fascinating topic because I believe, generally speaking, all the top athletes in the world are using ped's. Best wishes.
It's no surprise. Last year, I read reports in the Chinese media that had predicted that in the year of the Olympics, the Western media would hype up a propaganda war to attack Chinese athletes for using performance-enhancing drugs!
WADA needs a house cleaning. So many of these endurance sports have been plagued by doping and WADA is not up to the task of being an effective watchdog.
So this is an odd generalization here but hear me out: I live in Dayton, Ohio and we recently had a Chinese owned company, Fuyao, raided by the feds (IRS, Homeland Security, and ICE) for money laundering and human exploitation (human trafficking). If a company that has a majority of its stake owned by the Chinese government is going to do something like that, they’re going to dope their athletes. Didn’t we hear about an initiative by the Chinese government to make their athletes excel beyond measure in the Olympics some years ago? Remember the scandal about the Chinese female gymnastics team not being old enough? Trust nothing that comes out of China. Nothing.
Just for good measure, since no western media or youtuber will tell you the full story of what happened in 2021 which lead to all this fury, here it goes. In 2021 China swimming association held a national gathering, meet of all swimmers in competitive level in a single city. While the swimmers were there, the Chinese Anti Doping Agency (CHINADA) tested all the swimmers 3 times during the duration of the event. They found 23 swimmers with trace amounts of TMZ in 1 of their 3 tests. They promptly started an investigation which determined that the reason only 1 of their 3 tests were positive was because all 23 of these swimmers were staying at the same hotel. Then they checked the kitchen and found trace amounts of TMZ in the meat, in the kitchen counter top and vent hood. All this were reported to WADA. Then WADA did 2 separate investigations of their own which confirmed what was found by CHINADA. So to recap, 1) it was not WADA that did the test but CHINADA, if China wanted to cover it up, they simply could have not reported it at all. No one would be the wiser. 2) The TMZ found was trace amounts and only in their blood test after that meal, their initial blood tests were also completely clear. 3) Pan Zanle, the 100m swimmer and current world record holder, was not amongst those 23 swimmers. This whole thing was not an issue until the NY times dug it up and made a stink, then USADA got US congress involved (not sure why since they don't have jurisdiction). Just so everyone will be clear who WADA favors. US pays 10% of WADA budget annually. WADA is based in Canada, has not a single member from China. And, WADA has given last few years, 66% of all Therapeutic Use Exemptions to just 3 countries, USA, France and Australia. Just happens these 3 countries have the most swimming medals. (Made some typo corrections)
Thank you for this clear explanation.
Thank you for speaking for the truth.
Just to backup your synopsis, I have included a link to the Wada report that goes in great details about why they accepted the Chinese explanations regarding the positive tests : www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/2024-04/2024-04_fact_sheet_faq_chinese_swimming.pdf
Nice ccp propaganda plus 1000 credit point for you ching
You are certainly unable to argue based on facts and some simple logic. Sad! @@Capdub
Once the US doping history gets exposed，nobody talks about the Chinese doping anymore
All the CN athletes are doped up cheaters and state-trained from the age of 2 but you still lose medal count anyways...
When Phelps won 8 medals, no one in the West said it was "humanly" impossible ... Now Pan wins 3 medals, it is not humanly possible ...
should you discuss why many of US athletes are asthma and ADHD patients? Transparency is also needed
Already pointed out elsewhere in the comments but CHINADA tested and reported these 23 swimmers. Why report them to WADA and not sweep it under the rug? Months before the Olympics?
It doesn’t compute
I mean do you really sincerely believe that someone who could win 8 golds in a single game ..that’s almost 14 races in 3 days ..is absolutely clean
US *A*DHA, *A*sthma....Etc Doping allowed😂
phelps is as dirty as it comes.
For transparency，who set the privacy protection rule for tested athletes who are not found guilty? Go check the history, which country has the most covered up?
I think it’s more interesting to discuss how WADA defend these swimmers but then argue against Russian figure skater😂
Exactly...why this obsession in punishing the Russian skater..Why the full scale attempt do destroy Kamila Valieva? Did she beat some Canadian skater.
@@giuseppeleveroni1914this was for team skating and guess who she helped to take out? Why was it them who made the biggest noise? In women’s skating there, all the non-Russians were hopelessly outclassed by them. The Canadian had no quality skater there
Purple face 😈 are cool !!! Best dopes team America!!!
Braden mentioned Madisyn Cox & Efimova. In both those cases the athletes were provisionally suspended & the positives were made public. There’s a lot of discussion about whether the 23 positives were down to contamination or cheating. I wish there was more discussion about the lack of uniformity in the process. Some athletes receive provisional suspensions from competing before they can establish a “no fault” case while these 23 athletes (perhaps in other cases too?) face no punitive measures. It’s pretty disconcerting that anyone, let alone WADA, would find this acceptable.
DOUBLE STANDARD
@@CHOWFUNG-ud1cuhi brand new China bot account 👋
How many US swimmers are on drugs thanks to TUEs? What percentage of the total that are approved for TUEs make up American swimmers compared to China? And is it really fair or natural for someone who competes with a TUE against those that don't? I think we need more discussion and transparency in regards to TUEs.
17:50 “98% of the world has made up their mind on the story”.
This aged pretty badly for USADA. Especially after the purple faces making it a total joke.
Take the olympic Medal count loss with more grace...little yellow doping cheaters aren't happy
The problem is the lack of transparency.
america lack of transparency; USADA won't let WADA test any american athlete, while on US soil.
You mean USADA allowing its swimmers to dope while competing, and NOT telling WADA.
Thank you gentlemen for providing meaningful arguments in a sensible way.
Wada fending off Mr Tygart points by saying that contamination also happened in the USA is a terribly low argument from an organization in charge of worldwild regulation.
Why USA swimmers end competitions with all purple faces? Is a new kind of doping? As known doping master are always a step further……remember all doping cases involving US athletes …..😂
I have heard the following account from the kitchen's chef from the hotel.
"I was about to take my TMZ tablets for my heart condition when I tripped over. The tablets flew out of my hand and landed inside a very large pot of broth that I was cooking at the time. I tried frantically to fish them out but they had already dissolved; seeing the athletes starving I didn't have the heart to throw the broth away and start making a fresh one: it would've meant making them wait another hour. I decided to feed them without much thought.
I am terribly sorry for the distress I've caused and I feel devastated that this story from January 2021 has made its way to the main news outlets with less than 100 days to go Paris, what terrible timing! I hope that this story doesn't taint any possible Chinese sporting success and that, everyone treats us with the respect we deserve."
lol, it was a Chinese anti-doping agency that did the report. What a farce.
_...Chinese anti-doping agency, Chinada, to Wada in 2021, which said that it had found trace elements of TMZ in the extractor fan, on spice containers and in the drain of a hotel kitchen in Shijiazhuang, where the swimmers had been staying._
You have heard means just rumors, what you heard sounds phony, seems way too convenient to match the outcome. btw, where is he?? show me his medicine evidence? Without solid evidence, your story is as bad as the mislead New York Times story. But those swimmers have been clear from WADA, clear from CHINADA, clear from none-stop TESTING. that's solid proofs of CLEAN.
What I still don’t understand is why CHINADA didn’t suspend the 23 athletes immediately (per the rules) after the positive tests. It would have changed everything.
Because a country's entire Olympic team simultaneously testing positive for the same drug after attending a single gathering is not a doping scandal but a national security emergency. That's why CHINADA and WADA decided against disclosing it, as the case was most likely out of their hands and taken over by the MSS at that point. In any event, they followed contamination protocols in communication with WADA. What you're seeing now is a engineered leak from entities that know more about the incident than they logically should and are loudly pretending not to realise the deeper implications.
It's called the Chinese Comunist Party. That what drives thir program. That's what drove the East German program. They'll do anything to 'Beat the west'. Commomg from a communist country myself, I know that this is the norm. They started doing this in the 90's and have only become better at hiding it. It was only a matter of time that they would slip up. So glad they have as Qin and Pan are a little too fast and there is no appernt developmental reason for this.
Why didnt USADA suspend 10 athletes in 2014 when they also tested positive under the same "food contamination"?
I understand, China has a long history of following their own rules and ignoring the rest of the world. Plus they have WADA in their pocket and they know it so why follow the rules, why suspend any athletes? They knew they wouldn't face any reprocutions if they didn't.
@@elim1230-b9jplease provide a reference, can’t find the incident you are referring to.
It would be great if, in due course, swimswam produced a post summarising where we are on this scandal. I’m talking timeline, facts we know, assumptions made etc. Would be very nice to track and understand the topic better!
I think mel made it pretty clear where he stands but the others were a little more vague. But yeah, it would be nice if they were all less diplomatic, however that opens them up to alot of things.
@@sethaldrich6902 This is Mel, and this is my opinion (and it does not represent swimswam editorial staff). I simply want the same rules to apply to all swimming nations. Sadly, if the Chinese swim stars did suffer the positive tests due to contamination, a cloud of doubt will remain over them due to WADA's handling of this case. As an Olympian and a gold medalist, I do have a lot of emotions on this topic, and that probably came through in this pod. At the end of the day, this needs to be thoroughly investigated. Doubt around WADA and Fair Play heading into an Olympics is the last situation we want to be in.
@@SwimSwamTV Thanks so much Mel, as a swim fan and an American, I and alot of other people appreciate the honesty and the emotion. Totally agree about WADA, I know, I for one feel they didn't treat this the same as other situations and with the donations, it looks bad, like the Chinese have them in their pocket. Positive tests should be treated the same. I hope in the future these things will be handled better, properly, and universaly the same. Appreciate all that you do.
@@SwimSwamTV Just for good measure, since no western media or youtuber will tell you the full story of what happened in 2021 which lead to all this fury, here it goes. In 2021 China swimming association held a national gathering, meet of all swimmers in competitive level in a single city. While the swimmers were there, the Chinese Anti Doping Agency (CHINADA) tested all the swimmers 3 times during the duration of the event. They found 23 swimmers with trace amounts of TMZ in 1 of their 3 tests. They promptly started an investigation which determined that the reason only 1 of their 3 tests were positive was because all 23 of these swimmers were staying at the same hotel. Then they checked the kitchen and found trace amounts of TMZ in the meat, in the kitchen counter top and vent hood. All this were reported to WADA. Then WADA did 2 separate investigations of their own which confirmed what was found by CHINADA. So to recap, 1) it was not WADA that did the test but CHINADA, if China wanted to cover it up, they simply could have not reported it at all. No one would be the wiser. 2) The TMZ found was trace amounts and only in their blood test after that meal, their initial blood tests were also completely clear. 3) Pan Zanle, the 100m swimmer and current world record holder, was not amongst those 23 swimmers. This whole thing was not an issue until the NY times dug it up and made a stink, then USADA got US congress involved (not sure why since they don't have jurisdiction). Just so everyone will be clear who WADA favors. US pays 10% of WADA budget annually. WADA is based in Canada, has not a single member from China. And, WADA has given last few years, 66% of all Therapeutic Use Exemptions to just 3 countries, USA, France and Australia. Just happens these 3 countries have the most swimming medals. (Made some typo corrections)
I agree with Braden Keith and that is why I think in the pool, on the track, in the field - it is a level playing field : because those who are "clean" are not necessarily clean. We have The Clear, Lance Armstrong, Alberto Salazar for examples and olympic champions who decades later were told by their own friends that they were not really clean (I'm talking about western block athletes - Eastern Bloc are pretty clear - no need to argue about it).
Those who are caught, let the officials deal with it. '
But it is extremely irritating, especially from someone from a small country or area (non russia, non china, non eastern block or western countries) to hear one-sided vilification - not only regarding doping but also politics (support of war).
Personally I just look at several signs regardless of their nationalities : excessive acnes on the back, acnes on the face (females), prognathism, bitemporal baldness in females and athletes who developed testicular cancers. Unfortunately due to current excellent grooming, you won't see armpits hairs in 13-15 year old girls anymore but that is something that I have seen back in 1988 swimming (for example) who the western bloc so admire until her retirement.
Other than that, I just enjoy watching the competition - knowing that almost all of these athletes are doped (either full dose, micro dose or using health excuses or whatever, either state sponsored, company sponsored or self sponsored).
And I think, from the individual athlete cheating point of view, self and company sponsored are worse than state sponsored because they knowingly & willingly do it out of greed for success. The state sponsored is worse in term of human rights violation.
Just a personal opinion. (oh aquatic is lucky as you don't have problems regarding "female" athletes with XY chromosomes too - not talking about trans).
Can't wait for the Olympics.
No matter what, there will be a black cloud over Chinese swimmers in Paris.
And the French, the ANGLO-SAXON AMERICAN for their demonization of all things Chinese and Russians.
Won’t it be an indoor event?
Just for good measure, since no western media or youtuber will tell you the full story of what happened in 2021 which lead to all this fury, here it goes. In 2021 China swimming association held a national gathering, meet of all swimmers in competitive level in a single city. While the swimmers were there, the Chinese Anti Doping Agency (CHINADA) tested all the swimmers 3 times during the duration of the event. They found 23 swimmers with trace amounts of TMZ in 1 of their 3 tests. They promptly started an investigation which determined that the reason only 1 of their 3 tests were positive was because all 23 of these swimmers were staying at the same hotel. Then they checked the kitchen and found trace amounts of TMZ in the meat, in the kitchen counter top and vent hood. All this were reported to WADA. Then WADA did 2 separate investigations of their own which confirmed what was found by CHINADA. So to recap, 1) it was not WADA that did the test but CHINADA, if China wanted to cover it up, they simply could have not reported it at all. No one would be the wiser. 2) The TMZ found was trace amounts and only in their blood test after that meal, their initial blood tests were also completely clear. 3) Pan Zanle, the 100m swimmer and current world record holder, was not amongst those 23 swimmers. This whole thing was not an issue until the NY times dug it up and made a stink, then USADA got US congress involved (not sure why since they don't have jurisdiction). Just so everyone will be clear who WADA favors. US pays 10% of WADA budget annually. WADA is based in Canada, has not a single member from China. And, WADA has given last few years, 66% of all Therapeutic Use Exemptions to just 3 countries, USA, France and Australia. Just happens these 3 countries have the most swimming medals. (Made some typo corrections)
Thieves always claim other s to be thief.
@@JkJK-pb5qm I was correct, there were a lot of questions. Doesn’t matter who did what.
I remember watching Jenny Thompson swim against beasts in 94 in Rome, and it scarrred me, and I wish I didn’t see new swimmers pop up out of seemingly nowhere and demolish world records and not be suspicious, but after watching this for literally decades, how can your brain not associate certain swims from Joe nobody’s and not think “you’re a cheater”.
yep China's breastroker came out of nowhere and he looks way bigger than he used to look. The 100 free guy also kinda popped up outta nowhere in the last year.
@@sethaldrich6902 Outta nowhere? 47.29 R World Aquatics Championships Feb 17, 2024
47.53 World Aquatics Championships Feb 15, 2024
47.73 World Aquatics Championships Feb 14, 2024
47.82 World Aquatics Championships Feb 14, 2024
46.80 🇫🇷 OQT R World Aquatics Championships Feb 11, 2024
46.97 Asian Games Sep 23, 2023
47.43 World Aquatics Championships Jul 27, 2023
47.61 World Aquatics Championships Jul 26, 2023
47.84 World Aquatics Championships Jul 26, 2023
47.67 R World Aquatics Championships Jul 23, 2023
47.22 May 01, 2023
47.79 19th FINA World Championships Jun 22, 2022
47.65 19th FINA World Championships
@@elim1230-b9jGood stuff dude. 👍 Data speaks and belies what the moron bullsh*tted.
First question: Does anyone know if this stuff even gives a healthy person a performence benefit?
We all know there is a bunch of stuff on the WADA list that does not realy do anything.
As a side note, your out of your mind if you think US swimmers do not dope. You think its only US track sprinters that have been doping for 50 yrs?
Everyone dopes, in every sport
Call out corrupt officials at all agencies.
Just for good measure, since no western media or youtuber will tell you the full story of what happened in 2021 which lead to all this fury, here it goes. In 2021 China swimming association held a national gathering, meet of all swimmers in competitive level in a single city. While the swimmers were there, the Chinese Anti Doping Agency (CHINADA) tested all the swimmers 3 times during the duration of the event. They found 23 swimmers with trace amounts of TMZ in 1 of their 3 tests. They promptly started an investigation which determined that the reason only 1 of their 3 tests were positive was because all 23 of these swimmers were staying at the same hotel. Then they checked the kitchen and found trace amounts of TMZ in the meat, in the kitchen counter top and vent hood. All this were reported to WADA. Then WADA did 2 separate investigations of their own which confirmed what was found by CHINADA. So to recap, 1) it was not WADA that did the test but CHINADA, if China wanted to cover it up, they simply could have not reported it at all. No one would be the wiser. 2) The TMZ found was trace amounts and only in their blood test after that meal, their initial blood tests were also completely clear. 3) Pan Zanle, the 100m swimmer and current world record holder, was not amongst those 23 swimmers. This whole thing was not an issue until the NY times dug it up and made a stink, then USADA got US congress involved (not sure why since they don't have jurisdiction). Just so everyone will be clear who WADA favors. US pays 10% of WADA budget annually. WADA is based in Canada, has not a single member from China. And, WADA has given last few years, 66% of all Therapeutic Use Exemptions to just 3 countries, USA, France and Australia. Just happens these 3 countries have the most swimming medals. (Made some typo corrections)
No one has answer the question how did a prescription heart drug end up in food?
In the podcast they mentioned that there may have been contamination in factories making the cleaning supplies (I think it was just speculation though)
@@williamnak9939 yeah that's the BS Chinese excuse. There's no way this medication can get in your food without putting it in there, but it doesn't matter, it got in these athletes bodies and so impacted their bodies making them able to train harder and better leading up to the games causing them to perform better in Tokyo, they should be stripped of their medals and those medals shoud be given to the other athletes.
@@sethaldrich6902 in the podcast they mentioned that it was a parent of an affected american swimmer that brought that theory. Factories in China are not always the cleanest and a worker’s medication could have gotten contaminated. (according to that person)
@@williamnak9939 that would have to be quite a coincidence to happen. In addition, it's not a super common medication to be taking for heart disease, it's highly unlikely that that could happen and then get 23 swimmers testing positive. Chances are astronomical. But in any case they tasted positive and that should be an automatic ban from compitions because the drug is in your system already.
@@sethaldrich6902It must be racial prejudice log that makes one not see things logically.
Was that AMERICAN FED THE SAME DRUG BY THE CHINESE...POINT PROVEN.
THEY CANNOT SEE BEYOND THEIR LONG NOSES.
It's sad this is the reality of our world. Full of hated, divisiveness, jealousy and dirty politics. But LOVE as well, you 3 Gentlemens proven just that, great example of fair analysis and true reports, great videos.
They are so confident that WADA has make mistakes despite the Chinese swimmers have been tested so many time more than other swimmers. What is it that made Coleman Hodges and Mel Stewart so skeptical of the Chinese swimmers winning so many Olympic gold medals? They are so sorry for the Chinese swimmers that they would be found that they were doped without their knowledge. Without their knowledge? Very interting and Incredible.😎
ARD is not a news agency. ARD is a public service tv channel in Germany with a full program on news, sport, entertainment, movies, educational program etc. New is a small part of what they do.
There's a lot of WADA boutism responses. 😂
Any Chinese swimmer that tested positive to TMZ should have been banned from competing, let alone go and compete at the Olympics that same year and take home medals.
Extremely unfair to all those swimmers from countries around the world who train so very hard, day in and day out just for a chance to compete on the international stage. Time for a major shake up of WADA - disgraceful!!
You need to ban all the US athletes then. They are the ones that dope the most.
Stop whining they are not special.
US allowed Knighton who was tested positive to compete in Paris. And it was the same, food contamination. Should Knighton be banned as well?
Any swimmer…not just Chinese. It’s racist to single out just Chinese people.
Ironically, more Americans would be banned if this rule were applied. Statistically, more Americans fail drug tests than Chinese. I think the reason for this is they don’t take the medication as we do. They prefer TCM.
Yank can't take that they are not number1 anymore
At 26:00 - completely disagree. You're discounting their doping system being subject to sloppiness, human error, admin errors, etc etc. Use occam's razor here. They are systematically doping, someone got sloppy, somehow it got out, and here we are. Did the athletes know? That's a more murky question
Everyone doping, you are naive if you think otherwise. The US just has better tech, and frankly, they set the rules.
occam's razor doesn't apply here. Your theory is not occam's razor because it involves an implausible series of failures throughout the cheating system, and that's what he's saying. He's saying it's implausible because multiple people would have screwed up the "cover-up" if it was indeed the case. They'd have to all take the same drug, all get caught, and then CHINADA reported the positive results to WADA.
Another loser.
Did they test positive at the time of their events that is the main question.
You guys really messed up with that first story
The assumptions Chinese are cheaters. Nothing new there. It's the creed.
Amazing video guys
They are western liars
I’m very sad and confused. I am all for clean sports but the current geopolitical environment makes it very difficult, if impossible, to find the truth. I understand Mel’s frustration but I find his remarks premature.
This is Mel, and I think your comment is fair. The editorial side of swimswam will remain on the side of hard facts-- what we know right now. I'll bring more emotion to the topic as someone who swam at two olympic games. I do think WADA mishandled this situation, meaning I do "believe" USADA CEO Travis Tygart. I think WADA must provide more light on this topic...and they are, to a degree, with an independent prosecutor. More to come this story as we near the Paris Olympics.
The Hunter's Coke, one time use, is not a HINDRANCE to performance.
No BS please. Refer to WADA statement on 7 August 24.
Not only chinese swimmers, russian and other countries were involved in doping scandals, now it must be very very investigated these informations and provide the punishment necessary and before the olympic games, the problem is the chinese are very closed and dificult to give the right and clear informations to the International authorities!!!!! Lets see what happens in the next weeks
Americans most. Lance Armstrong, Marion Jones, lotche, Michael Phelps, and many more. The purple faces are still doing it
Please refrain from drinking during the podcast. It is so distracting. If you are thirsty, drink enough before going on live.
Where is Zhu Zhigen and what are his thoughts on this?
Did the Secret Police Hunt down the culprit that left his Coke in tightly secured Snow White House?!
Please speculate. It is good for the world.😊😊😊
@SwimSwam
Very POOR and UNPROFESSIONAL video - it was an alleged scandal.
Can you really get excited about international swimming? Swimming is cycling now. Ruined the Olympics.
Watch the Chinese bots and hackers make the comments seem like there is a 50/50 opinion on this crime.
Everyone doping, you are naive if you think otherwise. The US just has better tech, and frankly, they set the rules.
@@elim1230-b9j lol u proved his point
@@elim1230-b9j Wu Mao.
Hey clown, I'm in Europe and not even Chinese, these losers are western shills
@@paulwally9007Monkey❤
TMZ is not like MSG, it is never in kitchens.
You just betrayed the fact that you didn't bother reading any full account before rushing to a comment.
@DingDongNotes666 I just realized that MSG shouldn't be in kitchens either, it's nasty stuff. 😆
@@Freedom_and_Democracy oh, you realizing that only now, after your mom has doped your food with MSG for decades? No wonder you can't think straight.
@@DingDongNotes666he’s American, he like to generalise that Chinese people have MSG in their food
@@Freedom_and_Democracy Actually there's nothing wrong with MSG. That along with a lot of old food myths were dispelled in this information age. Funnily enough, the distrust for MSG was likely xenophobia/racism motivated.
come on USADA cheats! pointing fingers to funny
here goes the slander again. Any comments on team purpleface winning ugly this Olympics? They are the laughingstocks of the internet now.
Asthma attacks
the fact that the 23 had the performance enhancing substance in their systems is not disputed. in turn, the fact that they gained (intentionally or unintentionally) a competitive advantage against the field cannot be disputed. they should've been provisionally banned at the time, and should be stripped of their time and medals now. the circumstances under which they were "contaminated" might be mitigating factors when determining their penalties. the burden of proving "contamination" is on CHNADA, and I don't think they carried that burden successfully at all with that ludicrous story, especially considering its history of covering up. remember Sun Yang's 4 months suspension was not revealed until after he allegedly served the suspension?
Thank you guys for keeping the matter fresh! let's try to keep the water clean!
I don't think there is any concrete data on the performance enhancement gained by this medication. Not saying it doesn't, but just because it is banned and offers a theoretical biological advantage, does not mean it does in real life and changed the outcome of races. This is a fascinating topic because I believe, generally speaking, all the top athletes in the world are using ped's. Best wishes.
Paris olympic is the worse of my lifetime. Its just turn me off not sure if i am looking forward for La la la land politics😢
What does John Culhane think?
WaDA is no different than FAA that green light Boeing MAX safety...
everyone is on them
Racist podcast
I watch TMZ but I don't ingest it.
Perhaps they were taking asthma medication, accept the win and move on guys
98% of Western people and 100 percent of Japanese. Lol
Knew this was coming after pan zhanle’s record 💀
Everyone doping, you are naive if you think otherwise. The US just has better tech, and frankly, they set the rules.
It's no surprise. Last year, I read reports in the Chinese media that had predicted that in the year of the Olympics, the Western media would hype up a propaganda war to attack Chinese athletes for using performance-enhancing drugs!
@@elim1230-b9j yeah, I guess you’re right. Occams razor would suggest a large government conspiracy, and not that China is doping
@@elim1230-b9j as a point of fact, WADA sets the rules, not the U.S. (USADA).
@@SwimSwamTV I was referring to the media, they have control.
ua-cam.com/video/n3VOGBOk9IE/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared
Original report from ARD. Part 1 of 4
Let's talk about the half-life of TMZ and WHEN it is used so it is not detectable at the time of testing. Were 23 swimmers not managed correctly? 🤔
Well, no argument, US ban China for Olympics 2028. All happy now? 😂
This is the year I and millions of others lost faith in the IOC/Olympics.
WADA needs a house cleaning. So many of these endurance sports have been plagued by doping and WADA is not up to the task of being an effective watchdog.
WADA covered up!
Pink faces
So this is an odd generalization here but hear me out: I live in Dayton, Ohio and we recently had a Chinese owned company, Fuyao, raided by the feds (IRS, Homeland Security, and ICE) for money laundering and human exploitation (human trafficking). If a company that has a majority of its stake owned by the Chinese government is going to do something like that, they’re going to dope their athletes.
Didn’t we hear about an initiative by the Chinese government to make their athletes excel beyond measure in the Olympics some years ago? Remember the scandal about the Chinese female gymnastics team not being old enough? Trust nothing that comes out of China. Nothing.
Check doping test records between china and USA first ❗ US athletes doping is six times more than china
@@SunYuetCHEUNG Source? OTher than ccp records?
@@Capdub i can't read my post.
does this include the new 100m freestyle record?
Zhang Yufei just happened to get much faster leading into the Olympics last time. Just coincidence. 🤔
It is called tapering...
@@ZhenYae Sure, just like Ben Johnson tapered. Lol It's called cheating my friend.
@@joeyartk Then you do not do sports.
@@ZhenYae Then you don't know cheating. Her pattern was not tapering. Lol
@@joeyartk Western Projection. Then, you know how to cheat, lie and ..
#chinazi #maothebutcher #winniethepooh #tianamansquare1989
👍
Wow Big news bring on the FBI ru,cryna should be kicked out cheaters