Speaking in tongues and praying in tongues is the exact same thing. When God fills you with the Holy Spirit he will confirm it by giving you fluency in a language you never knew. Whether a third party can understand what you are saying is between you, God and that third party.
@@ci6516 What are the chances that God made that happen? My best guess...100%. The theology is "speaking in tongues was in order to spread the Gospel in different languages to different peoples" The problem with that theology is that it is not at all supported by Scripture.
there are only 2 types of speaking in tonges. the 2 mentioned in the bible. 1. speaking your own language and others somehow hear it in their own languages 2. you speaking a language not known to you so that others may understand there is no third, the spirit does not have you babble nonsense that nobody in the room understands
Look up “Jubilation” in the Church Fathers. In the Latin West, this is how the gift of tongues (in the sense of rejoicing in the Spirit by means of speech in some unknown language) was talked about. Augustine writes about it and describes it and encourages his parishioners to pray in tongues.
@@magikarp2063Check out Augustine: “I am about to say what ye know. One who jubilates, utters not words, but it is a certain sound of joy without words: for it is the expression of a mind poured forth in joy, expressing, as far as it is able, the affection, but not compassing the feeling. A man rejoicing in his own exultation, after certain words which cannot be uttered or understood, bursts forth into sounds of exultation without words, so that it seems that he indeed does rejoice with his voice itself, but as if filled with excessive joy cannot express in words the subject of that joy.... and among the songs which they utter in words, they put in certain cries without words in the exultation of a rejoicing mind; and this is what is meant by jubilating.” (Expositions on the Psalms 100:4).
@@catholicjake7320 st. Augustine is abundantly clear that the gift of tounges is not present in his time. To take something that st. Augustine did not consider to be the gift of tounges and then try to use st. Augustine to justify an interpretation of the gift of tounges that he clearly does not agree with seems very odd. That being said I shall certanly try to find where he speaks about this too.
Thank you! As a devout Catholic, daily communicant, who prays in tongues I am so glad to hear this. So much confusion out there about the gift of tongues. I just graduated from the Encounter School of Ministry… highly recommend it! Come Holy Spirit!
An unbiased look into what Scripture says on tongues will reveal this is true. But its something the Holy Spirit has to open you up to. A long time ago, i thought "This isnt prayer." But i had never prayed much to the Holy Spirit. I prayed a Novena to H.S. and the day i finished i randomly thought to give tongues a try. Changed my life. Ive had many powerful experiences with this gift. Catholics are missing out! Life with the Holy Spirit is FUN! Lol
All church fathers and saints who speak on the topic explain this gift as either speaking a different language or speaking your language while others understand it in their own. If you read for example st. John Chrysostom you will see that they don't interpret people not understanding as anyone speaking meaningless sounds. I've never seen anyone who believes in this to grapple with this issue. You have to believe that all the saints and fathers of the church were wrong.
I know people who claim to speak in tongues as C-Catholics. They just repeat Shalala and similar sounds over and over again. The one person who claims to speak in tongues is also one of the most cruel and mean-spirited people I have ever known. Actually, the 2 people I know who claim "status" as Charismatic Catholics are incredibly mean, unforgiving themselves and have lied continually. What the heck?! Sad. I am a Catholic. A PRACTISING one. The behavior of these women has been gob-smacking to me. Uppity. Holier than thou.
Thanks for leaving a comment. Personally, I've experienced a similar situation as you. If I were you I'd keep your distance if you can and pray for them. God bless!
@@SaintDominicMedia I am having difficulty praying for one of them as she has promoted division within my family. This has caused grief in my heart beyond anything I have ever known. She initially treated me with what I perceived was kindness and compassion in the manner that I treated her. However, as it turns out, she was pretending and using God's name to control a narrative with me and others. Now that she has what she wants, she has "spit" on me and continues to create, control, and promote this huge fracture within my family. I know in my heart that I need to pray for her but am finding it very difficult to do so. I know I am wrong in that thinking.
@@SaintDominicMedia Yes. Sadly our son/brother/Godson/friend. I appreciate all prayers. Mother Mary listens to my tearful prayers each day for this situation to be resolved. I will never understand how someone who professes a great faith in Catholicism and boasts of speaking in tongues can promote this kind of division and grief of another family. And to another Mother. She did not even tell my son when his only Grandma died. One he had been close to all his life. I fear none of us will ever see him again.
It seems you are bias and I don't think you get to know the truth with such attitude. The basic truth is it is real but our abuses, misuses and etc doesn't negate the fact it is true.
I first thought that this was the way Adam & Eve spoke before a speak-able language was established . After all it sounds like a confusing utterance that can be only spoken in certain situations. We cannot use the method in our day to day communications with one another as it would render us like a tower of babel syndrome
There is absolutely nothing mysterious about Biblical "tongues" - and there is only one type - when referring to something spoken, they are nothing more than real, rational language(s); usually unknown to those listening to them, but always known by the speaker(s) - it’s their native language (in some cases, it is a language the speaker has learned). In contrast, the “tongues” Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians are producing today is an entirely self-created phenomenon. It is non-cognitive non-language utterance; random free vocalization based upon a subset of the existing underlying sounds (called phonemes) of the speaker’s native language, and any other language(s) the speaker may be familiar with or have had contact with. It is, in part, typically characterized by repetitive syllables, plays on sound patterns, alliteration, assonance, and over-simplification of syllable structure. It is also interesting to note that any disallowed sound combinations, i.e. consonant clusters, in the speaker’s native language are also disallowed in his/her tongues-speech. Further, this subset of phonemes typically contains only those sounds which are easiest to produce physiologically. There is absolutely _nothing_ that “tongues-speakers” are producing that cannot be explained in relatively simple linguistic terms. Conversely, when it comes to something spoken, there are absolutely _no_ Biblical references to “tongues” that do not refer to, and cannot be explained in light of, real rational language(s), though it may not be the explanation you want to hear, and it may be one which is radically different from what you believe, or were taught. _Nowhere in the Bible is modern tongues-speech advocated or evidenced._ “Praying in the Spirit” does _not_ refer to the words one is saying. Rather, it refers to how one is praying. In the three places it is used (Corinthians, Ephesians, and Jude), there is absolutely zero reference to 'languages' in connection with this phrase. “Praying in the Spirit” should be understood as praying in the power of the Spirit, by the leading of the Spirit, and according to His will.
1 Corinthians 14:23 If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds? Why would anyone believe someone is crazy just because they speak another language. And how many native languages would there be in Corinth at that time, besides Greek, Hebrew and Latin, which anyone could identify? But what if that language is not known to men? 1 Corinthians 14:2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
@@a.demian If you walked past a public gathering and there were several people standing up and speaking at the same time, each one in a different language, you’d probably think they were all nuts. Paul is saying what if everyone at the gathering was doing that, i.e. standing up and speaking in their various native languages? I’d probably be walking away from there pretty fast. Corinth was a very large multi-cultural, multi-lingual city situate on two major seaports. Picture Hong Kong in the 1930’s or even New York city today - you would likely have heard multiple languages on any given day from virtually anywhere in the Roman Empire and even beyond. It was a city with a large transient population from literally all over the known world. One of the reasons Paul chose it - his message could be spread much more easily to all corners of the world. 1Cor. 14:2 is perhaps *the* quintessential verse used by many to “evidence” modern tongues-speech in the Bible. Let’s paraphrase the KJB version of this verse into a more modern English. To do this, you need to get rid of the added “unknown”, use a more accurate translation from the Greek, and a more modern rendering of the archaic “tongue” - Once done, we have something more like this - “He that speaks in a language isn’t speaking to others, but only to God; no one hears [him] with understanding; nevertheless, though he’s praying in the Spirit, he’s speaking mysteries.” The whole passage is talking about real, rational language. Let me use an analogy - If I attend a worship service in “East Haystack”, some remote town in the US out in the middle of nowhere, two things are going to be evident: one; there’s only going to be so many people at that service (i.e. there will be a finite given amount of people there) and two; the chances that anyone speaks anything *but* English is pretty slim to nil. If I start praying aloud in say Lithuanian, there’s no one at that service that’s going to understand a single word I’m saying. Even though I’m speaking a real language, no one _there_ will understand my “tongue”. That does not mean or imply that no one else understands Lithuanian; just no one at _that particular service._ In this sense, therefore, I am speaking _only to God,_ since he understands all languages. To everyone at the service, even though I’m praying in the Spirit (as defined in my original post), to the people listening to me, I’m still speaking “mysteries” - i.e. even though I’m praying as I ought, no one understands me; no one has a clue what I’m saying as no one speaks my language. When one looks at the original Greek, the verb which is usually translated as “understandeth/understands” is actually the verb “to hear” in the sense of understanding what you’re hearing someone say. The verb is *not* “to understand”. That part of the verse is more properly “no one hears [him] with understanding”, i.e. no one listening to him understands what he’s saying. There is _nothing_ in this passage that suggests modern tongues-speech nor is there anything that even _remotely_ suggests that the speaker does not understand what he himself is saying. The Greek bears this out; it is the _listeners_ who do not understand, *not* the speaker - no matter how hard modern tongues-speakers want the speaker to also not understand…….it just isn’t there.
@@kavikv.d.hexenholtz3474when the Apostles saw that people have been baptized, they asked if they also received the Holy Spirit, as if they were looking for a sign. After laying their hands on them, they began speaking in tongues and prophesying. This scene repeats multiple times. Were all these people speaking in their own native language? What are the odds to meet as often foreigners gathered together. The reference of apostle Paul itself, about people in church speaking in tongues as being strange, demonstrates that the practice is indeed strange to experience. The "mondern" practice of speaking in tongues is present in most denominations that have asked for the manifestation of the Holy Spirit, regardless if it's Orthodoxy, Catholicism or Protestantism. If it were theological error of some cult, than the gift of tongues as we know it today would remain in that cult. Glossolalia and speaking a foreign language without knowing it do have something in common. There are many stories of people speaking utter non-sense but to others it was understandable. Or for example I heard about an old Romanian lady who most surely couldn't speak any foreign language, but when praying in tongues she was actually praying in perfect English for a young girl in trouble. I am, if not very skeptical, an educated guy with a sense of reality, but I have experienced the gift of speaking in tongues while sincerely praying to the Holy Spirit and I testify it to be true.
@@a.demian I assume you are referring to Paul in Ephesus and Pater at the home of Cornelius. Peter and Cornelius - A Roman soldier’s “household” typically consisted of his immediate family, a retinue of fellow soldiers, and numerous slaves. His relatives, like Cornelius, would have presumably spoken Latin. Educated Romans would have also spoken Greek over Latin. Fellow soldiers also spoke Latin, but as Roman soldiers they could have come from just about anywhere in the Empire. Likewise, and especially, his slaves. For these latter two groups, Latin and Greek would have likely been second/third languages. In short, though his fellow soldiers, and his slaves, spoke Latin, it may not at all have been their native language(s). His slaves almost certainly not. Like the soldiers, their native language(s) could have come from anywhere in the Roman Empire. In Cornelius’ household, we have several people who comprised a multi-lingual group. We must also surmise that most of this company also spoke Greek in varying degrees. From the narrative, we know that the incident is reported from the perspective of Peter and his group, and “They (Peter and his company) heard them speaking in languages (“tongues”) and praising God”. From this, we can deduce two types of speech here: (1) speech that Peter and his group understood, and (2) speech they did not understand. Considering Peter and his company report in the narrative that they knew that some of what was said were praises to God, it must have been said in a language they knew (likely Greek, but possibly some recognized Latin). Some of what was said however, they did not understand because it was foreign to them. Peter and his company did not speak, nor apparently recognize, those languages. When a bi-lingual or multi-lingual speaker utters something suddenly/spur of the moment in an emotional outburst (not to be taken with any negative connotations), the speaker will _always_ revert to their native language. That’s just a known fact. These people here were in the same situation and reverted to languages Peter and his company did not speak. Hence, as far as Peter and his company were concerned, they began “speaking in tongues (read “languages”)”. The reference to the situation being just as it was on Pentecost is a reference to the _manner_ in which they were speaking (i.e. declaring the mighty works of God in a “bold and authoritative manner”), just as the apostles did on Pentecost - it has nothing to do with what language they were speaking, but rather the _manner_ in which they were speaking, that was the same as on Pentecost. No modern tongues-speech here; just unrecognized real languages. Paul in Ephesus - Like Corinth, Ephesus was a cultural melting pot. It was also on a seaport and boasted what we might call today a “tourist attraction”; one of the seven wonders of the ancient world - the temple of Artemis. It’s quite possible, and given what happened based on the narrative, quite probable, that these individuals Paul met were not native Ephesians; thus, not native speakers of Greek. Again, there are two types of speech referenced here: one that Paul understood, and one he did not. We are not told what the native language of Paul’s new friends was. It appears however, that both these people and Paul conversed in the ‘common tongue’ of the day: Greek; a language Paul understood. When Paul baptized them, they may have simply been, out of joy of receiving the Holy Spirit one may assume, expressing themselves in their native language; one that Paul was obviously not familiar with. The fact that they began speaking in a language unknown to Paul, further lends to the idea that these believers were not native Ephesians. No modern tongues-speech, just the unnamed native language of these disciples. _The "mondern" practice of speaking in tongues is present in most denominations that have asked for the manifestation of the Holy Spirit, regardless if it's Orthodoxy…._ Anyone can learn to produce tongues-speech in relatively short order. For some people there is a strong desire to “experience God”, and that experience is created via ‘tongues’. _Glossolalia and speaking a foreign language without knowing it do have something in common. There are many stories of people speaking utter non-sense but to others it was understandable…._ They are entirely exclusive of each other. You’re comparing glossolalia to xenoglossy. There are (unfortunately) absolutely no documented cases of xenoglossy - anywhere. Thousands, if not tens of thousands, of examples of tongues-speech have been studied and analyzed. _Not one_ was ever found to be a real rational language, living or dead. Despite this, the tongues-speaking community is rife with such examples. Unfortunately, every one of them seems to be anecdotal at best. _I am, if not very skeptical, an educated guy with a sense of reality, but I have experienced the gift of speaking in tongues…._ Again, I'm not doubting or questioning the 'experience'; as mentioned, glossolalia as the tool that it is, can be very powerful, and for many people, the experience is profound. Again though, it is important to note that this same statement can be made for virtually _any other culture that practices glossolalia_ . Religious and cultural differences aside, the glossolalia an Evenki Shaman in Siberia, a vodoun priestess in Togo and a Christian tongues-speaker in Alabama are producing are in no way different from each other. They’re all producing their glossolalia in the exact same way. Record yourself, or have someone record you, while speaking in tongues, then play it back, several times and even at a slower speed. Listen, really listen, to what it is you’re producing. I think you’ll find that it is comprised of exactly what I mention in my original post. One of the features of tongues-speech that seems to put the proverbial "nail in the coffin", is that _every_ single phonological rule that governs a speaker’s native language, will _also_ govern their tongues-speech. That in and of itself just dos not speak to anything that is remotely 'divine' in nature.
@@kavikv.d.hexenholtz3474 well, you have definitely made me think about this. But noticing that you are a believer yourself, leaving your rationale for a sec, have you ever asked the Holy Spirit to bless you with the gift of tongues, if it were to be real? I'd try it, I don't think it would do any harm!
That the gibberish that "they" speak is a non-language (no grammatical structure) and is unique to each person, shows the holy gibberish interpretation of Paul is wrong. Accirding to "them" you can watch a training video and practice to receive the "gift." At best tgey are just faking themselves out. At worst it is demon influence as reported by several who've tried it out with discernment.
Everyone speaking a made-up language that only they themselves understand makes no sense. How is that beneficial to anyone??? The person, "saying made-up words," might benefit others and themselves more by quoting scripture or praying together instead.
I'm cautious. This movement is gaining in popularity and has the appearances of a fad, which at best is demoralizing and at worst very harmful. There is a word for being moved so intensely by being filled with the Holy Spirit that the capacity of mere human speech is exceeded....singing. So much controversy, so much dispute, debate and even cajoling....As a bystander all I can say is, 'you do you'. I'm too busy with ministry and apostolate to worry about it...I'm more interested in their help in bringing the gospel to people that need it than their speaking in tongues tbh.
Oh yeahhhh! Praying in tongue!!! blahblahbklahmushimishunertuyernusediuo...and that means: Well we don't know! We might as well be praying to the devil without knowing it! Didn't St-Paul say not to do this if there was no one to interpret? Well yes he did!!! Did you know that often, there was someone there who understood the language spoken in these famous charismatic gatherings that come from the protestant pentecostal sect?! Well the one who receive A spirit and finally spoke in a real tongue yet didn't know it, was actually praising satan! Well slap my wrist and sizzle my loans! Let's keep on doing it and HOPE that the spirit taking us over MAY be the Holy Spirit. REASON OVER FEELINGS IS THE WAY TO GO
The key words you said," in the POWER of the Holy Spirt," and not in the power of the speaker. Speaking in tongues without the power of the Holy Spirit, is fleshly and nothing more than babbling. It has to be the Spirit speaking through you and not just a faith that believes all you have to do is utter syllables and vowels and then the Holy Spirit makes something out of it. If HIs power isn't causing you to speak, then it is not Him, it is you. When praying in the power of the Holy Spirit, I am unable to pray my thoughts, because He wants to speak. I would literally have to force myself to not allow Him to speak for me to pray in my understanding, which I don't want to do, and would be crazy to do. However, many in Catholicism do not agree with you and your message.
A load of codswallop Father. This nonsense is in goosestep with the charismatic movement, another form of "worship" more akin to Protestantism than Catholicism. Gibberish as its best.
As a Catholic I would say that I do not elevate myself above other Christians, who are following the teachings given by St. Peter in the church that Christ gave to this world. I only elevate our lord Jesus Christ, Holy Spirit and God the father🙏
@@Bheki1wp why would you ask me to explain the gospel to you? Do you think I am here to educate you ? Do you know that before ever the gospel was written.. there was the word, and oral tradition. Many many changes were made in the written word my friend. The word stands. God bless 🙏
@@Alfieruben-j1l Because you said you are a follower of Christ hence i am asking you, what is the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ because no one can say they are a follower of Christ if they ; 1)Do not know the gospel of Christ 2) Have not believed the gospel of Christ Hence i am asking you what is the gospel of Christ so that even you yourself by the answer of this question you will check yourself and see if indeed you are a believer and a follower of Christ or you are just in a Christian religion which is made up of man made traditions and doctrines of men. So i would be honoured if you can tell me the gospel which you have believed and by which you were saved🙏🏽
@@Bheki1wp I am currently reading and studying the gospels, which are a collection of loosely put together stories on the life of Christ. Open to interpretation as they are contradictory in written form. As aforementioned.. before the written word was the Word. Much of the gospel is in fact open to interpretation. As for the question of my being a follower of Christ, I will rest in the assurance of my Personal relationship with Jesus Christ that I am on the right path, and not on the insinuations of a Protestant stranger on social media implying otherwise . But.. if you care to do some research yourself, you will find that much of the language used in the gospel is ambiguous in its meaning eg, where it says that Jesus had brothers. The term brother here refers also to cousins and other male relatives. I hope this clarifies for you, and if not, then I can only pray that one day that we can agree on the actual word of God outside of the written interpretations of men .
![The Gift of Tongues Explained [Mary Healy]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vxsarxDljEc/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Gift of Tongues Explained [Mary Healy]](/img/tr.png)
Good video! 👍🏻
This is the most balanced take on this topic, it clearly speaks to so many issues all in one short video... Really brilliant!
Finally a meaningful video that looks at speaking in tongues, praying in tongues as 2 different things! Am much at peace now…
Speaking in tongues and praying in tongues is the exact same thing.
When God fills you with the Holy Spirit he will confirm it by giving you fluency in a language you never knew.
Whether a third party can understand what you are saying is between you, God and that third party.
@@brucedavenport7016that makes no sense , in acts all who heard understood .
@@ci6516 What are the chances that God made that happen?
My best guess...100%.
The theology is "speaking in tongues was in order to spread the Gospel in different languages to different peoples"
The problem with that theology is that it is not at all supported by Scripture.
@@brucedavenport7016 Read Acts 2, it's very clear.
there are only 2 types of speaking in tonges. the 2 mentioned in the bible.
1. speaking your own language and others somehow hear it in their own languages
2. you speaking a language not known to you so that others may understand
there is no third, the spirit does not have you babble nonsense that nobody in the room understands
And its purpose will always be to build up the church.
This is how all the fathers of the church and saints have interpreted it.
I've never seen anyone grapple with this fact.
Look up “Jubilation” in the Church Fathers. In the Latin West, this is how the gift of tongues (in the sense of rejoicing in the Spirit by means of speech in some unknown language) was talked about. Augustine writes about it and describes it and encourages his parishioners to pray in tongues.
@@magikarp2063Check out Augustine: “I am about to say what ye know. One who jubilates, utters not words, but it is a certain sound of joy without words: for it is the expression of a mind poured forth in joy, expressing, as far as it is able, the affection, but not compassing the feeling. A man rejoicing in his own exultation, after certain words which cannot be uttered or understood, bursts forth into sounds of exultation without words, so that it seems that he indeed does rejoice with his voice itself, but as if filled with excessive joy cannot express in words the subject of that joy.... and among the songs which they utter in words, they put in certain cries without words in the exultation of a rejoicing mind; and this is what is meant by jubilating.” (Expositions on the Psalms 100:4).
@@catholicjake7320 st. Augustine is abundantly clear that the gift of tounges is not present in his time.
To take something that st. Augustine did not consider to be the gift of tounges and then try to use st. Augustine to justify an interpretation of the gift of tounges that he clearly does not agree with seems very odd.
That being said I shall certanly try to find where he speaks about this too.
Thank you! As a devout Catholic, daily communicant, who prays in tongues I am so glad to hear this. So much confusion out there about the gift of tongues. I just graduated from the Encounter School of Ministry… highly recommend it! Come Holy Spirit!
An unbiased look into what Scripture says on tongues will reveal this is true. But its something the Holy Spirit has to open you up to. A long time ago, i thought "This isnt prayer." But i had never prayed much to the Holy Spirit. I prayed a Novena to H.S. and the day i finished i randomly thought to give tongues a try. Changed my life. Ive had many powerful experiences with this gift. Catholics are missing out! Life with the Holy Spirit is FUN! Lol
You cannot give speaking in tongues "a try" 😂
Can you explain the scriptural basis for this? I recently watched some videos about this and I want to check my understanding
Tongues of Acts (good). The rest (gibberish).
All church fathers and saints who speak on the topic explain this gift as either speaking a different language or speaking your language while others understand it in their own.
If you read for example st. John Chrysostom you will see that they don't interpret people not understanding as anyone speaking meaningless sounds.
I've never seen anyone who believes in this to grapple with this issue.
You have to believe that all the saints and fathers of the church were wrong.
I have read with care all that Saint Paul said on the subject. Paul was a sensible and sober man.
I know people who claim to speak in tongues as C-Catholics. They just repeat Shalala and similar sounds over and over again. The one person who claims to speak in tongues is also one of the most cruel and mean-spirited people I have ever known. Actually, the 2 people I know who claim "status" as Charismatic Catholics are incredibly mean, unforgiving themselves and have lied continually. What the heck?! Sad. I am a Catholic. A PRACTISING one. The behavior of these women has been gob-smacking to me. Uppity. Holier than thou.
Thanks for leaving a comment. Personally, I've experienced a similar situation as you. If I were you I'd keep your distance if you can and pray for them. God bless!
@@SaintDominicMedia I am having difficulty praying for one of them as she has promoted division within my family. This has caused grief in my heart beyond anything I have ever known. She initially treated me with what I perceived was kindness and compassion in the manner that I treated her. However, as it turns out, she was pretending and using God's name to control a narrative with me and others. Now that she has what she wants, she has "spit" on me and continues to create, control, and promote this huge fracture within my family. I know in my heart that I need to pray for her but am finding it very difficult to do so. I know I am wrong in that thinking.
@@Steph18844 Wow this sounds like a big issue. I hope she hasn't caused division in your immediate family. We'll keep your situation in our prayers.
@@SaintDominicMedia Yes. Sadly our son/brother/Godson/friend. I appreciate all prayers. Mother Mary listens to my tearful prayers each day for this situation to be resolved. I will never understand how someone who professes a great faith in Catholicism and boasts of speaking in tongues can promote this kind of division and grief of another family. And to another Mother. She did not even tell my son when his only Grandma died. One he had been close to all his life. I fear none of us will ever see him again.
It seems you are bias and I don't think you get to know the truth with such attitude.
The basic truth is it is real but our abuses, misuses and etc doesn't negate the fact it is true.
I first thought that this was the way Adam & Eve spoke before a speak-able language was established . After all it sounds like a confusing utterance that can be only spoken in certain situations. We cannot use the method in our day to day communications with one another as it would render us like a tower of babel syndrome
There is absolutely nothing mysterious about Biblical "tongues" - and there is only one type - when referring to something spoken, they are nothing more than real, rational language(s); usually unknown to those listening to them, but always known by the speaker(s) - it’s their native language (in some cases, it is a language the speaker has learned).
In contrast, the “tongues” Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians are producing today is an entirely self-created phenomenon. It is non-cognitive non-language utterance; random free vocalization based upon a subset of the existing underlying sounds (called phonemes) of the speaker’s native language, and any other language(s) the speaker may be familiar with or have had contact with.
It is, in part, typically characterized by repetitive syllables, plays on sound patterns, alliteration, assonance, and over-simplification of syllable structure. It is also interesting to note that any disallowed sound combinations, i.e. consonant clusters, in the speaker’s native language are also disallowed in his/her tongues-speech. Further, this subset of phonemes typically contains only those sounds which are easiest to produce physiologically.
There is absolutely _nothing_ that “tongues-speakers” are producing that cannot be explained in relatively simple linguistic terms.
Conversely, when it comes to something spoken, there are absolutely _no_ Biblical references to “tongues” that do not refer to, and cannot be explained in light of, real rational language(s), though it may not be the explanation you want to hear, and it may be one which is radically different from what you believe, or were taught. _Nowhere in the Bible is modern tongues-speech advocated or evidenced._
“Praying in the Spirit” does _not_ refer to the words one is saying. Rather, it refers to how one is praying. In the three places it is used (Corinthians, Ephesians, and Jude), there is absolutely zero reference to 'languages' in connection with this phrase. “Praying in the Spirit” should be understood as praying in the power of the Spirit, by the leading of the Spirit, and according to His will.
1 Corinthians 14:23 If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?
Why would anyone believe someone is crazy just because they speak another language. And how many native languages would there be in Corinth at that time, besides Greek, Hebrew and Latin, which anyone could identify?
But what if that language is not known to men?
1 Corinthians 14:2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
@@a.demian
If you walked past a public gathering and there were several people standing up and speaking at the same time, each one in a different language, you’d probably think they were all nuts. Paul is saying what if everyone at the gathering was doing that, i.e. standing up and speaking in their various native languages? I’d probably be walking away from there pretty fast.
Corinth was a very large multi-cultural, multi-lingual city situate on two major seaports. Picture Hong Kong in the 1930’s or even New York city today - you would likely have heard multiple languages on any given day from virtually anywhere in the Roman Empire and even beyond. It was a city with a large transient population from literally all over the known world. One of the reasons Paul chose it - his message could be spread much more easily to all corners of the world.
1Cor. 14:2 is perhaps *the* quintessential verse used by many to “evidence” modern tongues-speech in the Bible.
Let’s paraphrase the KJB version of this verse into a more modern English.
To do this, you need to get rid of the added “unknown”, use a more accurate translation from the Greek, and a more modern rendering of the archaic “tongue” -
Once done, we have something more like this -
“He that speaks in a language isn’t speaking to others, but only to God; no one hears [him] with understanding; nevertheless, though he’s praying in the Spirit, he’s speaking mysteries.”
The whole passage is talking about real, rational language.
Let me use an analogy - If I attend a worship service in “East Haystack”, some remote town in the US out in the middle of nowhere, two things are going to be evident: one; there’s only going to be so many people at that service (i.e. there will be a finite given amount of people there) and two; the chances that anyone speaks anything *but* English is pretty slim to nil.
If I start praying aloud in say Lithuanian, there’s no one at that service that’s going to understand a single word I’m saying. Even though I’m speaking a real language, no one _there_ will understand my “tongue”. That does not mean or imply that no one else understands Lithuanian; just no one at _that particular service._
In this sense, therefore, I am speaking _only to God,_ since he understands all languages. To everyone at the service, even though I’m praying in the Spirit (as defined in my original post), to the people listening to me, I’m still speaking “mysteries” - i.e. even though I’m praying as I ought, no one understands me; no one has a clue what I’m saying as no one speaks my language.
When one looks at the original Greek, the verb which is usually translated as “understandeth/understands” is actually the verb “to hear” in the sense of understanding what you’re hearing someone say. The verb is *not* “to understand”. That part of the verse is more properly “no one hears [him] with understanding”, i.e. no one listening to him understands what he’s saying.
There is _nothing_ in this passage that suggests modern tongues-speech nor is there anything that even _remotely_ suggests that the speaker does not understand what he himself is saying. The Greek bears this out; it is the _listeners_ who do not understand, *not* the speaker - no matter how hard modern tongues-speakers want the speaker to also not understand…….it just isn’t there.
@@kavikv.d.hexenholtz3474when the Apostles saw that people have been baptized, they asked if they also received the Holy Spirit, as if they were looking for a sign. After laying their hands on them, they began speaking in tongues and prophesying. This scene repeats multiple times. Were all these people speaking in their own native language? What are the odds to meet as often foreigners gathered together. The reference of apostle Paul itself, about people in church speaking in tongues as being strange, demonstrates that the practice is indeed strange to experience.
The "mondern" practice of speaking in tongues is present in most denominations that have asked for the manifestation of the Holy Spirit, regardless if it's Orthodoxy, Catholicism or Protestantism. If it were theological error of some cult, than the gift of tongues as we know it today would remain in that cult.
Glossolalia and speaking a foreign language without knowing it do have something in common. There are many stories of people speaking utter non-sense but to others it was understandable. Or for example I heard about an old Romanian lady who most surely couldn't speak any foreign language, but when praying in tongues she was actually praying in perfect English for a young girl in trouble.
I am, if not very skeptical, an educated guy with a sense of reality, but I have experienced the gift of speaking in tongues while sincerely praying to the Holy Spirit and I testify it to be true.
@@a.demian
I assume you are referring to Paul in Ephesus and Pater at the home of Cornelius.
Peter and Cornelius -
A Roman soldier’s “household” typically consisted of his immediate family, a retinue of fellow soldiers, and numerous slaves.
His relatives, like Cornelius, would have presumably spoken Latin. Educated Romans would have also spoken Greek over Latin. Fellow soldiers also spoke Latin, but as Roman soldiers they could have come from just about anywhere in the Empire. Likewise, and especially, his slaves. For these latter two groups, Latin and Greek would have likely been second/third languages.
In short, though his fellow soldiers, and his slaves, spoke Latin, it may not at all have been their native language(s). His slaves almost certainly not. Like the soldiers, their native language(s) could have come from anywhere in the Roman Empire.
In Cornelius’ household, we have several people who comprised a multi-lingual group. We must also surmise that most of this company also spoke Greek in varying degrees.
From the narrative, we know that the incident is reported from the perspective of Peter and his group, and “They (Peter and his company) heard them speaking in languages (“tongues”) and praising God”.
From this, we can deduce two types of speech here: (1) speech that Peter and his group understood, and (2) speech they did not understand.
Considering Peter and his company report in the narrative that they knew that some of what was said were praises to God, it must have been said in a language they knew (likely Greek, but possibly some recognized Latin). Some of what was said however, they did not understand because it was foreign to them. Peter and his company did not speak, nor apparently recognize, those languages.
When a bi-lingual or multi-lingual speaker utters something suddenly/spur of the moment in an emotional outburst (not to be taken with any negative connotations), the speaker will _always_ revert to their native language. That’s just a known fact. These people here were in the same situation and reverted to languages Peter and his company did not speak. Hence, as far as Peter and his company were concerned, they began “speaking in tongues (read “languages”)”.
The reference to the situation being just as it was on Pentecost is a reference to the _manner_ in which they were speaking (i.e. declaring the mighty works of God in a “bold and authoritative manner”), just as the apostles did on Pentecost - it has nothing to do with what language they were speaking, but rather the _manner_ in which they were speaking, that was the same as on Pentecost.
No modern tongues-speech here; just unrecognized real languages.
Paul in Ephesus -
Like Corinth, Ephesus was a cultural melting pot. It was also on a seaport and boasted what we might call today a “tourist attraction”; one of the seven wonders of the ancient world - the temple of Artemis. It’s quite possible, and given what happened based on the narrative, quite probable, that these individuals Paul met were not native Ephesians; thus, not native speakers of Greek.
Again, there are two types of speech referenced here: one that Paul understood, and one he did not.
We are not told what the native language of Paul’s new friends was. It appears however, that both these people and Paul conversed in the ‘common tongue’ of the day: Greek; a language Paul understood.
When Paul baptized them, they may have simply been, out of joy of receiving the Holy Spirit one may assume, expressing themselves in their native language; one that Paul was obviously not familiar with. The fact that they began speaking in a language unknown to Paul, further lends to the idea that these believers were not native Ephesians.
No modern tongues-speech, just the unnamed native language of these disciples.
_The "mondern" practice of speaking in tongues is present in most denominations that have asked for the manifestation of the Holy Spirit, regardless if it's Orthodoxy…._
Anyone can learn to produce tongues-speech in relatively short order. For some people there is a strong desire to “experience God”, and that experience is created via ‘tongues’.
_Glossolalia and speaking a foreign language without knowing it do have something in common. There are many stories of people speaking utter non-sense but to others it was understandable…._
They are entirely exclusive of each other. You’re comparing glossolalia to xenoglossy.
There are (unfortunately) absolutely no documented cases of xenoglossy - anywhere. Thousands, if not tens of thousands, of examples of tongues-speech have been studied and analyzed. _Not one_ was ever found to be a real rational language, living or dead. Despite this, the tongues-speaking community is rife with such examples. Unfortunately, every one of them seems to be anecdotal at best.
_I am, if not very skeptical, an educated guy with a sense of reality, but I have experienced the gift of speaking in tongues…._
Again, I'm not doubting or questioning the 'experience'; as mentioned, glossolalia as the tool that it is, can be very powerful, and for many people, the experience is profound. Again though, it is important to note that this same statement can be made for virtually _any other culture that practices glossolalia_ . Religious and cultural differences aside, the glossolalia an Evenki Shaman in Siberia, a vodoun priestess in Togo and a Christian tongues-speaker in Alabama are producing are in no way different from each other. They’re all producing their glossolalia in the exact same way.
Record yourself, or have someone record you, while speaking in tongues, then play it back, several times and even at a slower speed. Listen, really listen, to what it is you’re producing. I think you’ll find that it is comprised of exactly what I mention in my original post. One of the features of tongues-speech that seems to put the proverbial "nail in the coffin", is that _every_ single phonological rule that governs a speaker’s native language, will _also_ govern their tongues-speech. That in and of itself just dos not speak to anything that is remotely 'divine' in nature.
@@kavikv.d.hexenholtz3474 well, you have definitely made me think about this.
But noticing that you are a believer yourself, leaving your rationale for a sec, have you ever asked the Holy Spirit to bless you with the gift of tongues, if it were to be real? I'd try it, I don't think it would do any harm!
That the gibberish that "they" speak is a non-language (no grammatical structure) and is unique to each person, shows the holy gibberish interpretation of Paul is wrong. Accirding to "them" you can watch a training video and practice to receive the "gift." At best tgey are just faking themselves out. At worst it is demon influence as reported by several who've tried it out with discernment.
Everyone speaking a made-up language that only they themselves understand makes no sense. How is that beneficial to anyone??? The person, "saying made-up words," might benefit others and themselves more by quoting scripture or praying together instead.
I'm cautious. This movement is gaining in popularity and has the appearances of a fad, which at best is demoralizing and at worst very harmful. There is a word for being moved so intensely by being filled with the Holy Spirit that the capacity of mere human speech is exceeded....singing. So much controversy, so much dispute, debate and even cajoling....As a bystander all I can say is, 'you do you'. I'm too busy with ministry and apostolate to worry about it...I'm more interested in their help in bringing the gospel to people that need it than their speaking in tongues tbh.
Oh yeahhhh! Praying in tongue!!! blahblahbklahmushimishunertuyernusediuo...and that means: Well we don't know! We might as well be praying to the devil without knowing it! Didn't St-Paul say not to do this if there was no one to interpret? Well yes he did!!! Did you know that often, there was someone there who understood the language spoken in these famous charismatic gatherings that come from the protestant pentecostal sect?! Well the one who receive A spirit and finally spoke in a real tongue yet didn't know it, was actually praising satan! Well slap my wrist and sizzle my loans! Let's keep on doing it and HOPE that the spirit taking us over MAY be the Holy Spirit. REASON OVER FEELINGS IS THE WAY TO GO
1 corinthians 14:2
No mystery compare to the Eucharist as a former Evengelical Christian for 26yr I know this is not of God .
The key words you said," in the POWER of the Holy Spirt," and not in the power of the speaker. Speaking in tongues without the power of the Holy Spirit, is fleshly and nothing more than babbling. It has to be the Spirit speaking through you and not just a faith that believes all you have to do is utter syllables and vowels and then the Holy Spirit makes something out of it. If HIs power isn't causing you to speak, then it is not Him, it is you. When praying in the power of the Holy Spirit, I am unable to pray my thoughts, because He wants to speak. I would literally have to force myself to not allow Him to speak for me to pray in my understanding, which I don't want to do, and would be crazy to do. However, many in Catholicism do not agree with you and your message.
Read the Bible . It will describe tongues.
A load of codswallop Father. This nonsense is in goosestep with the charismatic movement, another form of "worship" more akin to Protestantism than Catholicism. Gibberish as its best.
Wow. Your catholic? As someone who attends pentecostal churches, I agree with everything you said. Im confused. Are you a Charismatic Catholic?
Are you really a Catholic🤔 How can a catholic understand the simplicity of Christ than most professing Charismatic people🤷🏽♂️
As a Catholic I would say that I do not elevate myself above other Christians, who are following the teachings given by St. Peter in the church that Christ gave to this world. I only elevate our lord Jesus Christ, Holy Spirit and God the father🙏
@@Alfieruben-j1l What is the gospel of Christ if i may ask?
@@Bheki1wp why would you ask me to explain the gospel to you? Do you think I am here to educate you ?
Do you know that before ever the gospel was written.. there was the word, and oral tradition. Many many changes were made in the written word my friend. The word stands.
God bless 🙏
@@Alfieruben-j1l Because you said you are a follower of Christ hence i am asking you, what is the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ because no one can say they are a follower of Christ if they ;
1)Do not know the gospel of Christ
2) Have not believed the gospel of Christ
Hence i am asking you what is the gospel of Christ so that even you yourself by the answer of this question you will check yourself and see if indeed you are a believer and a follower of Christ or you are just in a Christian religion which is made up of man made traditions and doctrines of men.
So i would be honoured if you can tell me the gospel which you have believed and by which you were saved🙏🏽
@@Bheki1wp I am currently reading and studying the gospels, which are a collection of loosely put together stories on the life of Christ. Open to interpretation as they are contradictory in written form.
As aforementioned.. before the written word was the Word. Much of the gospel is in fact open to interpretation.
As for the question of my being a follower of Christ, I will rest in the assurance of my Personal relationship with Jesus Christ that I am on the right path, and not on the insinuations of a Protestant stranger on social media implying otherwise . But.. if you care to do some research yourself, you will find that much of the language used in the gospel is ambiguous in its meaning eg, where it says that Jesus had brothers.
The term brother here refers also to cousins and other male relatives. I hope this clarifies for you, and if not, then I can only pray that one day that we can agree on the actual word of God outside of the written interpretations of men .