Update 9/20/2022 - *Twitch has updated their gambling policy but many people are misunderstanding, this is NOT a ban on luck-based gambling.* Please read my thread here! twitter.com/DevinNash/status/1572372736529371136 - this is only a ban on non-licensed websites - but that still leaves several loopholes to stream and benefit monetarily from luck-based gambling on the website. Unfortunately this policy update doesn't remove luck-based gambling from Twitch. I will make a video update on this situation when able. The announcement accomplished the kneejerk reaction it was supposed to and most people are celebrating this as the end of luck-based gambling on Twitch. It isn't. But you come here for the facts so I'll keep trying to provide them. Thank you for giving me a platform to be able to do that. I appreciate you all so much.
@thaz thaz You know, despite traditional American ignorancy, that the majority of streamers and viewers are not situated in the US? And here's Devin right: the keyword is *non-licensed* - also: *luck-based* Fun thing is: Most online slot/casino sites are licensed, otherwise, if Twitch wouldn't just don't care like on many other issues (copyright infringement, DMCA violation, basically everything except p*rn), most streamers would get in trouble with their local authorities who are, despite being slow and bureaucratic, are still processing this with lightspeed compared to Twitch - and hit streamers usually harder with "illegal advertising for ..." charges than the often too grey and harder to proof "Licensed or not?" issue.
On 5/21/21 Twitch released a blog talking about the newly added pools hot tubs and beaches category. In that blog they mention that although it's not a permanent fix advertisers could opt in and out of advertising over that content. Is this not the case with slots category as well? Why would advertisers be afraid to be on twitch if they have that kind of control?
I would argue that the the 2 sets of viewers doesn't look like breasts on an Euler diagram (2 separated circle without intersection), but they look more like a vagina (2 concentric circle, to put it another way: two things inside each other). Obviously not everyone who watches pornhub also watches Devin, but I think everyone who manages to find and watch Devin on the internet probably also found pornhub...
Hi Devin, Twitch Poker Streamer here (and a responsible one I hope). Fantastic video. Agree with a lot of what you say. Hope Twitch doesn't throw in Poker to a blanket ban of streaming, but agree that the current approach seems unsustainable in terms of the future/quality/profitability of the site. Thanks for sharing as always! 32 minute mark gang!
40:50 The reason why people have a negative assessment of Trainwreck's character is because of the problem that his gambling content provides. Yes he pays for mental health programs and maybe has bailed out some people in debt because of gambling. However, his content creates these problems in the first place. For instance, it's like Blizzard providing a diversity and inclusion program (which might cost them thousands of dollars) but their policies and total disregard to the situation created the hostile work environment. I had a discussion with a Twitch streamer yesterday and he brought up a couple of good points. Just because you post "don't gamble, it will ruin your life" doesn't do anything, especially when you are doing it. You just posted the message because you want to absolve yourself of some guilt you are feeling.
hit the 32:00 callout! I always appreciate that you lead off these commentaries on situations with real marketing data and facts, building a foundation for other arguments and then stick to that issue and topic. You've always been a great provider of info and i genuinely hope twitch as a platform becomes a place you can come back to some day.
I think younger audiences are even more tuned into gambling with how games have introduced loot boxes over the years. I know different from slots etc but it’s basically the same principle. Likes of fifa for example, new one out this week will be one of highest viewed categories. Streamers add or get given thousands of points and just stream loot boxes all day. Now adding in more traditional online gambling routes to Twitch is a slippery slope. Definitely with quality of audience and creator that encourages
Personally I don’t think that giving to charity absolves you from your wrong doing, and I can’t really imagine that the gambling sponsors are making less than what there putting into content creators and to me using your “own money” Doesn’t really mean that much considering how much money he gets paid to do just that. And also the fact that train is so in defense of keeping gambling on twitch that he will throw anyone under the bus to make himself seam better. And the miz story about sa was cover a while ago and everyone said that there was a misunderstanding and that crazy slick was forced to get help after it. I personally don’t like how train or X are treating everyone else in the creator eco system and I think there blinded by greed.
Just saw Twitch staff accept $50k from Train, not that those tsaff memebers make the choices for what is allowed on the website, but it's an awful look
Twitch actually just tweeted out their banning online gambling sites starting October 18th (poker and sports betting still allowed though). Took them long enough!
Completely False! Twitch occupied a very good Niche with Gambling. We ALL know what happend with Tumbler after their Anti-PrOn decision. It was NOT more Ad Revenue, It was Bankruptcy....
As usual, great points being made. My issue about the recent surge and the “I won’t stream for a week” folks is the fact they are only doing it because it effected them…they got fleeced, so NOW it’s a problem. Where were they before? Where were they when people were attempting to take their lives because of the hate raids?
Watched the whole thing as always. I find your videos extremely valuable and you have probably helped keep me from driving myself insane in this weird world of livestreaming. Thanks Devin.
14:00 but why doesn't Twitch just segment their ads? It would be relatively easy to serve ads to only certain categories and not others. (They just need to create some category buckets - streamers should already be required to stream in the right category, though sometimes they are not, and and an additional selection field on the ad purchase form... There should probably also be a filter the other way around where a streamer can select what kids of ads are served on their stream, so a family friendly stream isn't interrupted by NSFW ads, so ads should also be categorized, then they can match streams and ads automatically)
His explanation seems a bit backwards, like people are just watching ads for the ads, and then ads get interrupted by a stream that is not ad friendly or another ad, and get offended that their family friendly ad got interrupted by a not family friendly stream they were already watching. Gambling addicts probably also need food, so wouldn't be a bad thing to advertise to them, no? People who are already watching a gambling stream are probably not gonna be offended by a family friendly ad
Devin, I love your videos because they’re super informative and you keep it about as objective as it can get. You’re also the person you motivated me to actually make a yt channel a little over a year ago. (More motivational videos would be awesome) Granted I posted one video testing software and that was it, but it was a start and something that I want to continue once I get a functioning pc in the future.
Bad timing as mizkif the leader in getting this banned from twitch is about to be cancelled for covering sexual assault allegations, dont think a strike is on the cards now unfortunately, trainwrecks in on a PR run like no one has seen before.
I'm glad you covered the first part of this properly, not that I wouldn't expect you to. Hearing Poki pop off about the harm of gambling but staying quiet about poker and things like sports betting when I know the reason is CPM decreasing, wish she should just be honest, leaves me with a bitter taste in my mouth because I know she's saying it to people who don't understand it.
Ironically it's so funny what you said about Train knowing the skeletons in peoples closets because that's exactly the current situation with the drama posted all over LSF.
I live in Vegas, I go on twitch to get away from the mentality of "Gambling Bots" but twitch isn't gonna do anything about this, cause this is literally money and streamers come dime a dozen.
Yet again, Devin pulls back the veil as to why logically it makes sense to be against gambling other than "Gamba bad bad". Follow the money. 32m Crew RISE UP
Nothing is black or white in the gray maybe. It seems more and more people are ignoring the different shades. I hope the frog drama doesn't kill the Dec strike. Twitch may be about to implode in on itself, but at least we'll understand how it's caused. Now if we could only study the cosmic level plot armor forcrfield Train has. Loot boxes and gray area could get better regulation, but picking the low hanging fruit seems a lot easier than dealing with gambling as a hole. Baby steps. Poker and blackjack should be given a bit of leeway. Arguably Diablo Immortal takes less "skill" than these. 32 gang
At 8:29 you say "Pretty much the only federally mandated rule for influencer marketing is you have to put #ad if you are being sponsored." In the FTC Disclosures 101 for Social Media Influencers document under the Use Simple and Clear Language heading, they actually say, "It’s fine (but not necessary) to include a hashtag with the disclosure, such as #ad or #sponsored." Is there another regulation you are speaking about that influencers should know about?
I used to do Slot Videos on this channel. I had to stop when I wouldn't take an affiliate deal which is the only way to fund it. Which on UA-cam is taking a % of fans losses. I was always shocked just how many people in the comments had gambling related harm issues. Take my hat off to you for your stance on coming off Twitch because of gambling but also with your business taking a stance not to work with gambling companies. UK TV and especially sports is rife with gambling ads. Most soccer teams have gambling sponsors. The normalisation of gambling ads to kids is insane so fair play again. Great content. Entering your patreon next you earned it. 🤟
That Eve reference is brilliant. Glad to know I'm not the only one trained for life in the crucible of New Eden. An important part here is not to vilify people who are addicted to gambling, or drugs, or anything really. Addiction is an illness. Yes, it may lead them to do bad things for which they should be punished, but don't paint addicts as bad people just because their personality is more predisposed to addiction than yours is. If someone asks you for money to help pay for ANYTHING and you aren't 100% sure that it's legitimate, offer to pay it directly if you want to help or offer other solutions. Sending cash will often only further the cycle of harm to the addict and those affected by that persons actions.
32 Mins still here. Fascinating and makes complete sense. Amazing that last time I ran the API on Twitch 90+ were streaming in that section and only half even marked the content as Mature. Killing the platform from within and they don't even know it.
" The person who is commenting on a pornhub video, is unlikely to be the same person who is commenting on a Devin Nash Video. Over there, they do BBC, over here, we do PPC. " Golden qoute.
As a poor person. Theres nothing that could convince me to turn down thousands a month to gamble if it was millions id give everything up to do it tomorrow.
made it to the call out! thank you for taking the time to further people's understanding on this. it's so important to be able to further the conversation past "gambling is just bad". that kind of discourse wont change anyone's mind, but now i have the tools to thanks to you!
Will you look at that. Twitch announced a few hours ago that they will be blanket banning unregulated gambling. sports betting and poker seems to be ok, and gambling company register in the US might be ok as well, not sure allowing only US gambling companies actually make a differences.
Yooo 32 mins we here. Always gotta watch the whole video. Cant just have the dough and cheese. Cant just have the crust. Gotta eat the pizza. Love the videos. You open up all types of understanding i truly appreciate your work
"Over there they do BBC, over here we do PPC" Goddamn Devin. I very rarely comment on videos (even against the most powerful CTAs like your secret callouts and such), but that was so good I felt the need to acknowledge that.
No it doesn't. Advertisers don't care. Nobody pays attention to the gambling section. Except some big streamers who are jealous that gambling streamers make so much money. They also WANT to make that much too but they don't want to gamble, so they try to think of a way to tear others down. "If you can't join em, destroy them".
Love the insight as always. I would personally like to see companies state that they have specifically chosen not to advertise on twitch because its in the same pool as gambling ads. I really want to drive home how this will affect twitch's bottom line which affects everyone
YESSSS THE VIDEO IVE BEEN WAITING FOR ON THIS TOPIC! Also I'm typing this before the call out. But there hasn't been a Devin Nash Video in the past few months I haven't watched end to end.
Commenting way before the call out because I'm SO EXCITED FOR THIS VIDEO. I knew it was coming, I've been waiting all day. Twitter is exploding with drama and apparently that's something I'm into now.
Counterpoint, if you will: Content might be declining in some senses, but given the platform has SO MUCH competition, it encourages people to up their game, have more ways to interact with their audience (twitch integration with games like 7 days to die, Subnautica, Jackbox games, etc) in order to grow and thrive. Totally agree that this isn't good for the platform as a whole and needs to change for sure, but it's not all a cesspool at this point. There's some really damn stinky parts of the pond right now, though.
It’s a bit of a cop out to say it’s one bad action. I don’t think gambling is necessarily immoral so no judgement from me there but for example if someone drives drunk once vs every weekend I would judge them very differently
YOU DID IT!!! Gambling on sites not licensed in the US has just been banned! (All the crypto sites) 5 hours later and Twitch has been changed forever. Keep it up!
32 mins mark. I think either create an 18+ platform that is separate for certain streams but that opens a while other gateway of problems. Responsible gambling I think is ok but I don't think responsible gambling is possible on stream unfortunately.
I don't think its bad. Its a platform for adults and kids but ppl forget that aspect. I think twitch needs to step up and seriously consider a stricter AGE VERIFICATION and LOCKOUT from 18+ content ... including gambling. I have to send a photo of my ID for my health insurance why cant twitch do the same. Content creators should get a 7 day ban or something if they forget to put the 18+ gate up etc .... twitch can solve this easily.
Gambling hurts adults even more than kids, gambling is bad for kids PRIMARILY because it normalizes it and once they grow up and have money that barrier to entry is completely smudged. Gambling is not good or "fine" at any level period. The only reason it exists is to prey on weak minded people (poor and rich alike) and there is no universe that it is a good thing.
Because making things more difficult for users would drive users away from their platform. The more hoops someone has to jump through to access your site the less likely they are to interact with it at all.
My question is where is the line. Is it slots? Is it poker? Is it loot box openings? Is it sport streamers who talk about lines? Hard to figure out where to draw the line in the sand.
Thank you for all the videos and facts. Shout out to everyone who stays for the whole video haha. Always appreciate getting the facts from and appreciate your opinions as well. You've given me a lot to think about, most importantly whether or not I want to continue streaming on twitch.
i have autism and I have a huge problem with black and white thinking (as many of us do) and I think the main reason many many people tend to think black and white is because it is easy. for me the world is really scary and I got burned by people alot. so im more careful and hold people up to very high standards. the only reason I can break through that sometimes, is because I'm aware of it and people like you pointing it out. that was a really great point with the grey areas in morality. great video as always!
Honestly, the only argument against gambling is the moral argument that these bigger streamers have against gambling. I never agreed with them because that argument is a dead horse but looking at it with the income perspective really illuminates the real motives behind these streamers desperately attacking gamba at every turn
Hey Devin. Long time viewer here, just want to thank you for giving people well reasoned and articulate information about tons of topics regarding marketing and streaming. While you are not always unbiased, I would argue that you remain unbiased unless an issue is egregious and needs to change (these circumstances being a prime example). I'll be watching and supporting for as long as I can.
32 minutes in, I was actually planning on watching something else while I ate, but this video was so interesting that I couldn't click off. Love the amount of information you give, keep up the great work
40:40 This is actually a huge problem with online discourse. While these extreme opinions you see online that stands out tend to come from a vocal minority, opinion that are controversial also tends to generate more engagement which gets pushed into algorithms that prioritizes engagement above all else. Those black and white opinions make for excellent candidates for creating controversy, and engagement. The vast majority of people probably do not hold such extreme views, but they also tend not to be as heavily engaged compared to the vocal minority because they got other things they prefer to do than argue with people on the Internet.
32 minutes, commenting for the algorithm. Good content as always, really appreciate the insight and the extra research done to ensure your points are valid. Keep up the great work!
I just beg that poker doesn't get swept up in this. Some of the OG's of twitch, the absolute tip-top of the best content creators from the beginning of twitch are poker players. I've played poker for a substantial portion of my (admittedly modest) income for 18 years now and learned quite a bit from people like Jcarver or Tonka or adrianFenixx back in the day and more recently Doug Polk. Informative, valuable things that do not apply to slots or pure-luck games. I'd also put DFS/sports betting in the skill category although I am less versed in that. 32 gang.
Devin Nash, I have a question. What would happen if everyone decided to go premium on YT and no one had to watch ads anymore. Would creators still make money? I know it would never happen with the amount of people on YT but just curious. Do creators make some money off of YT premium memberships? Thanks for the video as always. 32 min crew let’s go.
32 minute call out, sucks that your video came out and Twitch made an announcement right after so you could discuss their policy change as well, hoping for a follow up video
32 Minute Mark erm Mark here. Everything was handled so well, but I feel like your morality perspective will be the most overlooked. We’re all driven to black & white areas these days instead of realizing you can support someone who is doing 90% good and the other 10% being gambling streams (but using those funds for the aforementioned 90%). We need to realize two things can be true at the same time, instead of just stamping it as “right” or “wrong”. I feel like I’m shouting into the void with that perspective and it’s good to see you have that same approach.
I talked with someone the other day and mainly tried to explain the concept of not focusing the umbrella on individualism like you mention towards the end of the video - but I’ve come to realize that a lot of the audience surrounding this drama are actually SOLELY here for the “Drama” on an individual level - so it’s like damn any logical argument just turns into a circular one for those that only see if from that lens.. You will never get thru to any sort of narcissist trying to explain these perspectives basically 😅 - great video 10/10
While I agree with fullscale ban of luck based gambling, it should be clear that this should include ALL forms. Such as CSGO cases, skin gambling, loot boxes, etc. These DIRECTLY affect kids as they are the games they play and they don't even have to get a VPN to go to some sketchy gambling site, plus crypto is far harder to get than mom's credit card. Mobile games basically thrive off young people doing their gambling rolls for loot/skins/currency, and should be viewed in the same way as gambling in my opinion, both by advertisers and normal users. The only difference is scalability (you can do $1k spins on crypto sites, but it is a lot harder to spend more than like $5k total on any given mobile game). There is a reason they are the most popular ads to see online, and it is because like gambling, they make the most money. It is just that gambling sites aren't allowed to advertise, otherwise you would see mobile game ads right next to gambling ones. Mobile games are just as toxic/invasive as real gambling - hell maybe even worse since you don't win anything of value it is 100% loss in most cases. (this is beyond just Twitch, I think mobile game gambling should be banned across all app stores, microtransactions for in game currency are bad enough) if Stake is hard drugs, mobile games are the gateway drug.
Had to check the date when the video started. This HAS been an huge issue on the website for years. People just have less of an issue with the gambling when its centered around card pack openings.
Has twitch ever had the idea of gating certain content behind age barriers with a verification of some sort? Cause it would cut down on a lot of issues the site has
That's a good question because I don't know if hot tub content requires a certain age in your profile or verification of some sort. They probably know their demographics and know adding age verification will affect user engagement overall.
Well, at the end of the day: Twitch doesn't really care about revenue/rewarding "their" creators, because... it was never designed in that direction. Of course they look out for... alternative monetization options.^^ Fun thing is: Most Twitch streamers still don't get it/work their a** off for pocket money. "The future of Twitch is quality content." - Love your optimism!
32mins and to the end! Great information! Good to know that there is a viable means to back ones values in regards to topics like gambling that can make an effective difference. Without some mass outcry or demonstration that is. Just knowing that companies will listed to well thought out and worded correspondence, makes the while thing digestible. Past this comment here I can take affirmative action without having to go public with it.. thats awesome
Commenting at 39 min into the video. Very interesting topic, and I was pleasantly surprised to hear about the ethics you go into, and the complexity of morality, and how it is not black & white.
Great coverage. Glad to see twitch taking action now however I feel like it's way too late. They need to work on their response time to issues like this.
Update 9/20/2022 - *Twitch has updated their gambling policy but many people are misunderstanding, this is NOT a ban on luck-based gambling.* Please read my thread here! twitter.com/DevinNash/status/1572372736529371136 - this is only a ban on non-licensed websites - but that still leaves several loopholes to stream and benefit monetarily from luck-based gambling on the website. Unfortunately this policy update doesn't remove luck-based gambling from Twitch.
I will make a video update on this situation when able. The announcement accomplished the kneejerk reaction it was supposed to and most people are celebrating this as the end of luck-based gambling on Twitch. It isn't. But you come here for the facts so I'll keep trying to provide them. Thank you for giving me a platform to be able to do that. I appreciate you all so much.
Slots are not ban
You are a stand up dude! thank You
@thaz thaz You know, despite traditional American ignorancy, that the majority of streamers and viewers are not situated in the US?
And here's Devin right: the keyword is *non-licensed* - also: *luck-based*
Fun thing is: Most online slot/casino sites are licensed, otherwise, if Twitch wouldn't just don't care like on many other issues (copyright infringement, DMCA violation, basically everything except p*rn), most streamers would get in trouble with their local authorities who are, despite being slow and bureaucratic, are still processing this with lightspeed compared to Twitch - and hit streamers usually harder with "illegal advertising for ..." charges than the often too grey and harder to proof "Licensed or not?" issue.
"Over there they do BBC, over here we do PPC" LMAO
On 5/21/21 Twitch released a blog talking about the newly added pools hot tubs and beaches category. In that blog they mention that although it's not a permanent fix advertisers could opt in and out of advertising over that content. Is this not the case with slots category as well? Why would advertisers be afraid to be on twitch if they have that kind of control?
amazing thumbnail
😂😂😂 IM WEAK 💀 20:20 “over there they do BBC, over here we do PPC” I was not expecting that lmaooooo
I would argue that the the 2 sets of viewers doesn't look like breasts on an Euler diagram (2 separated circle without intersection), but they look more like a vagina (2 concentric circle, to put it another way: two things inside each other).
Obviously not everyone who watches pornhub also watches Devin, but I think everyone who manages to find and watch Devin on the internet probably also found pornhub...
Hi Devin, Twitch Poker Streamer here (and a responsible one I hope). Fantastic video. Agree with a lot of what you say. Hope Twitch doesn't throw in Poker to a blanket ban of streaming, but agree that the current approach seems unsustainable in terms of the future/quality/profitability of the site. Thanks for sharing as always! 32 minute mark gang!
40:50 The reason why people have a negative assessment of Trainwreck's character is because of the problem that his gambling content provides. Yes he pays for mental health programs and maybe has bailed out some people in debt because of gambling. However, his content creates these problems in the first place. For instance, it's like Blizzard providing a diversity and inclusion program (which might cost them thousands of dollars) but their policies and total disregard to the situation created the hostile work environment. I had a discussion with a Twitch streamer yesterday and he brought up a couple of good points. Just because you post "don't gamble, it will ruin your life" doesn't do anything, especially when you are doing it. You just posted the message because you want to absolve yourself of some guilt you are feeling.
hit the 32:00 callout!
I always appreciate that you lead off these commentaries on situations with real marketing data and facts, building a foundation for other arguments and then stick to that issue and topic.
You've always been a great provider of info and i genuinely hope twitch as a platform becomes a place you can come back to some day.
I think younger audiences are even more tuned into gambling with how games have introduced loot boxes over the years. I know different from slots etc but it’s basically the same principle. Likes of fifa for example, new one out this week will be one of highest viewed categories. Streamers add or get given thousands of points and just stream loot boxes all day. Now adding in more traditional online gambling routes to Twitch is a slippery slope. Definitely with quality of audience and creator that encourages
Personally I don’t think that giving to charity absolves you from your wrong doing, and I can’t really imagine that the gambling sponsors are making less than what there putting into content creators and to me using your “own money” Doesn’t really mean that much considering how much money he gets paid to do just that. And also the fact that train is so in defense of keeping gambling on twitch that he will throw anyone under the bus to make himself seam better. And the miz story about sa was cover a while ago and everyone said that there was a misunderstanding and that crazy slick was forced to get help after it. I personally don’t like how train or X are treating everyone else in the creator eco system and I think there blinded by greed.
Just saw Twitch staff accept $50k from Train, not that those tsaff memebers make the choices for what is allowed on the website, but it's an awful look
Twitch actually just tweeted out their banning online gambling sites starting October 18th (poker and sports betting still allowed though). Took them long enough!
Completely False! Twitch occupied a very good Niche with Gambling. We ALL know what happend with Tumbler after their Anti-PrOn decision. It was NOT more Ad Revenue, It was Bankruptcy....
That is SHOCKINGLY fast and hardline for twitch, someone big must have been threatening to sue or something
As usual, great points being made. My issue about the recent surge and the “I won’t stream for a week” folks is the fact they are only doing it because it effected them…they got fleeced, so NOW it’s a problem. Where were they before? Where were they when people were attempting to take their lives because of the hate raids?
Watched the whole thing as always. I find your videos extremely valuable and you have probably helped keep me from driving myself insane in this weird world of livestreaming.
Thanks Devin.
I must say, the timing of this video was perfect. Twitch just announced 2 hours ago that they are banning gambling
14:00 but why doesn't Twitch just segment their ads?
It would be relatively easy to serve ads to only certain categories and not others. (They just need to create some category buckets - streamers should already be required to stream in the right category, though sometimes they are not, and and an additional selection field on the ad purchase form... There should probably also be a filter the other way around where a streamer can select what kids of ads are served on their stream, so a family friendly stream isn't interrupted by NSFW ads, so ads should also be categorized, then they can match streams and ads automatically)
His explanation seems a bit backwards, like people are just watching ads for the ads, and then ads get interrupted by a stream that is not ad friendly or another ad, and get offended that their family friendly ad got interrupted by a not family friendly stream they were already watching.
Gambling addicts probably also need food, so wouldn't be a bad thing to advertise to them, no?
People who are already watching a gambling stream are probably not gonna be offended by a family friendly ad
Devin, I love your videos because they’re super informative and you keep it about as objective as it can get.
You’re also the person you motivated me to actually make a yt channel a little over a year ago. (More motivational videos would be awesome) Granted I posted one video testing software and that was it, but it was a start and something that I want to continue once I get a functioning pc in the future.
Bad timing as mizkif the leader in getting this banned from twitch is about to be cancelled for covering sexual assault allegations, dont think a strike is on the cards now unfortunately, trainwrecks in on a PR run like no one has seen before.
Always a good day when Devin uploads
I'm also commenting for the 32:00 secret call to action. Thanks as always Devin, great stuff! 🙂
I'm glad you covered the first part of this properly, not that I wouldn't expect you to. Hearing Poki pop off about the harm of gambling but staying quiet about poker and things like sports betting when I know the reason is CPM decreasing, wish she should just be honest, leaves me with a bitter taste in my mouth because I know she's saying it to people who don't understand it.
Ironically it's so funny what you said about Train knowing the skeletons in peoples closets because that's exactly the current situation with the drama posted all over LSF.
I live in Vegas, I go on twitch to get away from the mentality of "Gambling Bots" but twitch isn't gonna do anything about this, cause this is literally money and streamers come dime a dozen.
Yet again, Devin pulls back the veil as to why logically it makes sense to be against gambling other than "Gamba bad bad". Follow the money.
32m Crew RISE UP
Nothing is black or white in the gray maybe. It seems more and more people are ignoring the different shades. I hope the frog drama doesn't kill the Dec strike.
Twitch may be about to implode in on itself, but at least we'll understand how it's caused. Now if we could only study the cosmic level plot armor forcrfield Train has.
Loot boxes and gray area could get better regulation, but picking the low hanging fruit seems a lot easier than dealing with gambling as a hole. Baby steps.
Poker and blackjack should be given a bit of leeway. Arguably Diablo Immortal takes less "skill" than these.
32 gang
At 8:29 you say "Pretty much the only federally mandated rule for influencer marketing is you have to put #ad if you are being sponsored."
In the FTC Disclosures 101 for Social Media Influencers document under the Use Simple and Clear Language heading, they actually say, "It’s fine (but not necessary) to include a hashtag with the disclosure, such as #ad or #sponsored."
Is there another regulation you are speaking about that influencers should know about?
I used to do Slot Videos on this channel. I had to stop when I wouldn't take an affiliate deal which is the only way to fund it.
Which on UA-cam is taking a % of fans losses. I was always shocked just how many people in the comments had gambling related harm issues.
Take my hat off to you for your stance on coming off Twitch because of gambling but also with your business taking a stance not to work with gambling companies.
UK TV and especially sports is rife with gambling ads. Most soccer teams have gambling sponsors. The normalisation of gambling ads to kids is insane so fair play again.
Great content. Entering your patreon next you earned it. 🤟
That Eve reference is brilliant. Glad to know I'm not the only one trained for life in the crucible of New Eden.
An important part here is not to vilify people who are addicted to gambling, or drugs, or anything really. Addiction is an illness. Yes, it may lead them to do bad things for which they should be punished, but don't paint addicts as bad people just because their personality is more predisposed to addiction than yours is.
If someone asks you for money to help pay for ANYTHING and you aren't 100% sure that it's legitimate, offer to pay it directly if you want to help or offer other solutions. Sending cash will often only further the cycle of harm to the addict and those affected by that persons actions.
32 Mins still here. Fascinating and makes complete sense. Amazing that last time I ran the API on Twitch 90+ were streaming in that section and only half even marked the content as Mature.
Killing the platform from within and they don't even know it.
If I'm not wrong, they just made an annoucment that on 18. October they will ban slot's etc.
Devin are you making a video about Swaggs's switched to UA-cam?
" The person who is commenting on a pornhub video, is unlikely to be the same person who is commenting on a Devin Nash Video. Over there, they do BBC, over here, we do PPC. " Golden qoute.
As a poor person. Theres nothing that could convince me to turn down thousands a month to gamble if it was millions id give everything up to do it tomorrow.
made it to the call out! thank you for taking the time to further people's understanding on this. it's so important to be able to further the conversation past "gambling is just bad". that kind of discourse wont change anyone's mind, but now i have the tools to thanks to you!
Will you look at that. Twitch announced a few hours ago that they will be blanket banning unregulated gambling. sports betting and poker seems to be ok, and gambling company register in the US might be ok as well, not sure allowing only US gambling companies actually make a differences.
Yooo 32 mins we here. Always gotta watch the whole video. Cant just have the dough and cheese. Cant just have the crust. Gotta eat the pizza. Love the videos. You open up all types of understanding i truly appreciate your work
"Over there they do BBC, over here we do PPC"
Goddamn Devin. I very rarely comment on videos (even against the most powerful CTAs like your secret callouts and such), but that was so good I felt the need to acknowledge that.
32'minute club. I'm curious if you are running engagement metrics based on this call out
No it doesn't. Advertisers don't care. Nobody pays attention to the gambling section. Except some big streamers who are jealous that gambling streamers make so much money. They also WANT to make that much too but they don't want to gamble, so they try to think of a way to tear others down. "If you can't join em, destroy them".
Love the insight as always. I would personally like to see companies state that they have specifically chosen not to advertise on twitch because its in the same pool as gambling ads. I really want to drive home how this will affect twitch's bottom line which affects everyone
First strippers, now gambling. Bravo Twitch, the redlight district of the internet.
Leaving the comment before I start. Will come back and digest this fully soon. Thanks for posting Devin
32 minute secret callout! Always appreciate the vids man, thanks for the continued hard work and breaking these things down
YESSSS THE VIDEO IVE BEEN WAITING FOR ON THIS TOPIC! Also I'm typing this before the call out. But there hasn't been a Devin Nash Video in the past few months I haven't watched end to end.
Commenting way before the call out because I'm SO EXCITED FOR THIS VIDEO. I knew it was coming, I've been waiting all day. Twitter is exploding with drama and apparently that's something I'm into now.
Counterpoint, if you will: Content might be declining in some senses, but given the platform has SO MUCH competition, it encourages people to up their game, have more ways to interact with their audience (twitch integration with games like 7 days to die, Subnautica, Jackbox games, etc) in order to grow and thrive. Totally agree that this isn't good for the platform as a whole and needs to change for sure, but it's not all a cesspool at this point. There's some really damn stinky parts of the pond right now, though.
32:18 min fam where you at?! 🙏
I've never understood why Amazon has never just come in and put their foot down and told Twitch to stop this stuff, seems wild they have not
It’s a bit of a cop out to say it’s one bad action. I don’t think gambling is necessarily immoral so no judgement from me there but for example if someone drives drunk once vs every weekend I would judge them very differently
32:00 ! always excited for more long form content. Cheers
32:18 min fam where you at?! 💪
Excellent, well thought out video. Also 32 min group. Well done as always.
Cheers
you know its bad when even the roblox section of twitch, the top stream is a gambling stream quite literally promoting gambling to children
YOU DID IT!!! Gambling on sites not licensed in the US has just been banned! (All the crypto sites) 5 hours later and Twitch has been changed forever. Keep it up!
32 mins mark. I think either create an 18+ platform that is separate for certain streams but that opens a while other gateway of problems. Responsible gambling I think is ok but I don't think responsible gambling is possible on stream unfortunately.
Can we talk about Ninja Streaming in all platforms?
41:41 really transcendentalist of you to say. I completely agree, I feel like I'm reading Walden again lol
Thanks for tackling this. Really fantastic video.
I don't think its bad. Its a platform for adults and kids but ppl forget that aspect.
I think twitch needs to step up and seriously consider a stricter AGE VERIFICATION and LOCKOUT from 18+ content ... including gambling. I have to send a photo of my ID for my health insurance why cant twitch do the same. Content creators should get a 7 day ban or something if they forget to put the 18+ gate up etc .... twitch can solve this easily.
gambling shouldndt be allowed if it has a direct ref-link.
Gambling hurts adults even more than kids, gambling is bad for kids PRIMARILY because it normalizes it and once they grow up and have money that barrier to entry is completely smudged.
Gambling is not good or "fine" at any level period. The only reason it exists is to prey on weak minded people (poor and rich alike) and there is no universe that it is a good thing.
It would defn be better than doin nothing; might as well put the hot tubs category also in the 18+ section lol
Because making things more difficult for users would drive users away from their platform. The more hoops someone has to jump through to access your site the less likely they are to interact with it at all.
My question is where is the line. Is it slots? Is it poker? Is it loot box openings? Is it sport streamers who talk about lines? Hard to figure out where to draw the line in the sand.
Thank you for all the videos and facts. Shout out to everyone who stays for the whole video haha. Always appreciate getting the facts from and appreciate your opinions as well. You've given me a lot to think about, most importantly whether or not I want to continue streaming on twitch.
Twitch had a Serious Solution
i have autism and I have a huge problem with black and white thinking (as many of us do) and I think the main reason many many people tend to think black and white is because it is easy. for me the world is really scary and I got burned by people alot. so im more careful and hold people up to very high standards. the only reason I can break through that sometimes, is because I'm aware of it and people like you pointing it out. that was a really great point with the grey areas in morality. great video as always!
Honestly, the only argument against gambling is the moral argument that these bigger streamers have against gambling. I never agreed with them because that argument is a dead horse but looking at it with the income perspective really illuminates the real motives behind these streamers desperately attacking gamba at every turn
32 minute call out! Another great video Devin thanks for the deep dive on this one
Hey Devin. Long time viewer here, just want to thank you for giving people well reasoned and articulate information about tons of topics regarding marketing and streaming. While you are not always unbiased, I would argue that you remain unbiased unless an issue is egregious and needs to change (these circumstances being a prime example). I'll be watching and supporting for as long as I can.
Welcome back to Twitch Devin FeelsGoodMan
32 minutes in, I was actually planning on watching something else while I ate, but this video was so interesting that I couldn't click off. Love the amount of information you give, keep up the great work
Just watched a Cadillac ad on a slot machine video. So UA-cam does it different? Not so sure. LOL
32 minutes lets go! Love your videos Devin.
Then it should be the same for pool streamers also? So why that still up
40:40 This is actually a huge problem with online discourse. While these extreme opinions you see online that stands out tend to come from a vocal minority, opinion that are controversial also tends to generate more engagement which gets pushed into algorithms that prioritizes engagement above all else. Those black and white opinions make for excellent candidates for creating controversy, and engagement.
The vast majority of people probably do not hold such extreme views, but they also tend not to be as heavily engaged compared to the vocal minority because they got other things they prefer to do than argue with people on the Internet.
32 minutes, commenting for the algorithm. Good content as always, really appreciate the insight and the extra research done to ensure your points are valid. Keep up the great work!
I just beg that poker doesn't get swept up in this. Some of the OG's of twitch, the absolute tip-top of the best content creators from the beginning of twitch are poker players. I've played poker for a substantial portion of my (admittedly modest) income for 18 years now and learned quite a bit from people like Jcarver or Tonka or adrianFenixx back in the day and more recently Doug Polk. Informative, valuable things that do not apply to slots or pure-luck games. I'd also put DFS/sports betting in the skill category although I am less versed in that. 32 gang.
32 minutes in and I'm definitely watching it all. I'm also now subscribed. Great content with many good insights
Devin Nash, I have a question. What would happen if everyone decided to go premium on YT and no one had to watch ads anymore. Would creators still make money? I know it would never happen with the amount of people on YT but just curious. Do creators make some money off of YT premium memberships? Thanks for the video as always.
32 min crew let’s go.
32 minute call out, sucks that your video came out and Twitch made an announcement right after so you could discuss their policy change as well, hoping for a follow up video
32M CREW! Love these dive vids, dude. Great listening while I work on various things.
Great vid, as always! 32:00
32 Minute Mark erm Mark here. Everything was handled so well, but I feel like your morality perspective will be the most overlooked. We’re all driven to black & white areas these days instead of realizing you can support someone who is doing 90% good and the other 10% being gambling streams (but using those funds for the aforementioned 90%). We need to realize two things can be true at the same time, instead of just stamping it as “right” or “wrong”. I feel like I’m shouting into the void with that perspective and it’s good to see you have that same approach.
I talked with someone the other day and mainly tried to explain the concept of not focusing the umbrella on individualism like you mention towards the end of the video - but I’ve come to realize that a lot of the audience surrounding this drama are actually SOLELY here for the “Drama” on an individual level - so it’s like damn any logical argument just turns into a circular one for those that only see if from that lens.. You will never get thru to any sort of narcissist trying to explain these perspectives basically 😅 - great video 10/10
While I agree with fullscale ban of luck based gambling, it should be clear that this should include ALL forms. Such as CSGO cases, skin gambling, loot boxes, etc. These DIRECTLY affect kids as they are the games they play and they don't even have to get a VPN to go to some sketchy gambling site, plus crypto is far harder to get than mom's credit card.
Mobile games basically thrive off young people doing their gambling rolls for loot/skins/currency, and should be viewed in the same way as gambling in my opinion, both by advertisers and normal users. The only difference is scalability (you can do $1k spins on crypto sites, but it is a lot harder to spend more than like $5k total on any given mobile game).
There is a reason they are the most popular ads to see online, and it is because like gambling, they make the most money. It is just that gambling sites aren't allowed to advertise, otherwise you would see mobile game ads right next to gambling ones. Mobile games are just as toxic/invasive as real gambling - hell maybe even worse since you don't win anything of value it is 100% loss in most cases.
(this is beyond just Twitch, I think mobile game gambling should be banned across all app stores, microtransactions for in game currency are bad enough) if Stake is hard drugs, mobile games are the gateway drug.
Had to check the date when the video started. This HAS been an huge issue on the website for years. People just have less of an issue with the gambling when its centered around card pack openings.
Has twitch ever had the idea of gating certain content behind age barriers with a verification of some sort? Cause it would cut down on a lot of issues the site has
That's a good question because I don't know if hot tub content requires a certain age in your profile or verification of some sort. They probably know their demographics and know adding age verification will affect user engagement overall.
Love the vids its ig something about you talking bro it gets me hype for some news
Well, at the end of the day: Twitch doesn't really care about revenue/rewarding "their" creators, because... it was never designed in that direction. Of course they look out for... alternative monetization options.^^ Fun thing is: Most Twitch streamers still don't get it/work their a** off for pocket money.
"The future of Twitch is quality content." - Love your optimism!
What about . . .
32 mins love hearing break stuff down
32mins and to the end! Great information! Good to know that there is a viable means to back ones values in regards to topics like gambling that can make an effective difference. Without some mass outcry or demonstration that is. Just knowing that companies will listed to well thought out and worded correspondence, makes the while thing digestible. Past this comment here I can take affirmative action without having to go public with it.. thats awesome
What about poker?
32 minutes in and still watching, thank you for all the value you provide dude your content is great!
I'm just waiting until Twitch shuts down, I cannot wait.
Commenting at 39 min into the video. Very interesting topic, and I was pleasantly surprised to hear about the ethics you go into, and the complexity of morality, and how it is not black & white.
Great coverage. Glad to see twitch taking action now however I feel like it's way too late. They need to work on their response time to issues like this.
Live slot gambling to?
So adpocalypse is coming to Twitch?
Devin with another quality upload!! Thanks for all the insight and data driven discussions.
32 minute mark is light work. We need to have 4 hours long videos to find the true Devin Nashers
32 minutes and still going! Your content is really interesting to me. Much love from germany! ❤
Great informative content as normal . Keep up the great work