Jordan Peterson "Hated Liking" David Foster Wallace's Cruise Ship Story | The Unbearable Present
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
- An excerpt from Jordan B. Peterson's 1996 Maps of Meaning lectures from Harvard University, where he comments on David Foster Wallace's "Shipping Out", also found in A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again. Peterson is commenting on what he calls the unbearable present.
David Foster Wallace WORSHIP ► Commencement Speech Clip (This is Water audio)
• David Foster Wallace W...
1984 vs Brave New World ► Neil Postman's Amusing Ourselves to Death [Orwell & Huxley] 🚩 David Foster Wallace appearance at 3:22
• 1984 vs Brave New Worl...
Donald Hoffman's Fitness-Beats-Truth Theorem Explained 🚩 Jordan Peterson appearance at 13:15
• Donald Hoffman's Fitne...
🚾 Works Cited
The full lecture with a timestamp for this reference:
• Maps of Meaning 02 (Ha...
Shipping Out (1996) was published in Harper's magazine and later republished in "A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again" (1997).
harpers.org/wp...
🚩 Nerd Alert
Wallace reported 11 gourmet eating-ops per day.
"Since finally finding out about it Monday, I've ended up availing myself of cabin service every night-more like twice a night, to be honest-even though I find it extremely embarrassing to be calling up x72 asking to have even more rich food brought to me when there have already been eleven gourmet eating-ops that day." (p.45)
🚨 Legal
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Does it bring a smile to your face imagining Peterson read Wallace not wanting to like it, but liking it?
I'm glad of the continuity.
@@dss1095blah blah
I give his Seinfeld cosplay an 8/10.
😂
He's like a mix of Jerry, Kramer, Elaine, and George.
@@andrewmoonbeam321aren't we all?
Very true!@@stoicvibesonly
I thought it was Jerry Seinfield in the thumbnail!!!
I wonder if JP’s favorite DFW book is Consider the Lobster.
Jordan Peterson doing a 90’s Seinfeld routine about a David Foster Wallace story - This is what UA-cam was made for
It is interesting to see him happy.
It’s real sad he had to become a caricature of himself. At least we still have his old videos.
@@geriburritothat seems to happen the more in the public eye you are. From actors to author to politicians...they all seem fated to become a caricature in a way.
It is so great to see him smile so much and look like he's having a good day.
I respect Jordan Peterson a lot, but I wish sometimes he wouldn't try so hard to look serious or intimidating.
If he's not crying, I'm not listening.
And therein lies his whole marketing scheme laid bare.
Young Peterson such a trip
Like a Cruise
What episode of seinfeld is this??
Now *that* was funny
1:42 Awh, he was so happy before Twitter!
Weren't we all... weren't we all.
He was subjected to the same physical aging process as Jose Mourinho.
Being 100% Portuguese, I approve this message.
Holy.... this is extremely trippy... young JP.... Travel Writer....
I know lol. I’m three edibles deep and this is too much. Also because I’m a dfw loyalist
Peterson in 1996: Can you believe this guy is so entitled?
Peterson in 2022: Up yours woke moralists, we’ll see who cancels who!
I disagree that he's saying DFW is entitled. I think he's pointing out something fundamental to the human condition.
Ditto with OP - I don't think either point is so easily packaged. The video did make me laugh.
LOL, so true! Even worse is his recent video (which of course you have to pay for) in which he's like, "you should go to church. Don't believe in God? Who cares? Who cares what you believe!!!"
Worst of all, "Putin invaded Ukraine because the West is so degenerate, and yeah I agree. We're degenerate." That's straight-up fascist talk. He's not even crypto anymore.
@@eileensmyth2505 As time moves along, I find myself agreeing with him less and less. I still think his college lectures are valuable though.
@@Carlos.Explains I think JP’s life experience has been heavily warped by the fame and hate he’s received.
His old collage lectures are so good and his new work just lacks introspection
Has Peterson ever talked more about DFW?
Not sure, I've listened to many of his lectures but this is the only reference I've picked up on.
I remember he retweeted a video of DFW talking about postmodernism a few years ago
There’s a lots of overlap of mood and themes although both would dislike the similarity to one and other. “This is water” in particular shows the similarities, hell, both use the “trapped in your own skull sized kingdoms” quote
@@donniedewitt9878 "both would dislike the similarity to one and other." - That is perfect.
@@donniedewitt9878Exactly my intuition too! They would see their deep similarities and they would hate it
Calling David Foster Wallace a travel writer makes sense when you ripped off his project and then missed the entire point of his essay is just too good
Haha, I don't think he meant DFW any shade. I'm guessing he legitimately thought he was a travel writer - but the tone of the piece should give up the jig.
Better to be a travel writer than a warmonger
Well he was a travel writer for a while, ‘A supposedly fun thing I’ll never do again’ is just that, travel writing. It’s a bit more than that but categorically you could call it that.
@@FranciscoGarcia-jp1hp The Twelves Rules for Life, The Lobster, it's so eerily close to DFW's project I think JP knows this but dismisses him because he wants to claim his spot, and largely he did with a slightly more approachable philosophy and less literary approach to the same problem. I'll take DFW and Infinite Jest and This is Water any day over a right wing grifter.
@erikklumpp3464 I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels like Wallace is a complete Anti-Peterson and kind of grappled with and solved most of what Peterson bitches about way back in the 90s. I can easily tell in this comments section who has actually read Wallace and Understands his use of postmodernism - because if they did they would be aware Peterson is completely out of his depth and possibly even deliberately misguided
Petereson is a charlatan
Back when he was saying interesting things, and looking cheerful instead of pissed-off.
You sound like your mom
@@fogasterg To you
I’ve listened to a lot of Peterson’s commentary on psychology and politics, but I had never quite understood why he said things like “the unbearable present”. It now makes complete sense, and it’s closely related to the idea of the hedonic treadmill. I might have to read maps of meaning soon 🤔
Although I had to look up what the hedonic treadmill.is. I agree that the two seem similar.
you know what being smart means? it means it's going to take you ten times as long to figure out what average people know, simply as a consequence of being.
virgin JP vs Chad DFW
DFW a Chad? That's a laugh and one of the dumbest statements here.
@@johnnastrom9400 yeah it’s literally a dumb joke congrats on being able to tell!
Morality corralled his chadness
Thank you for posting this ! A real treat
Peterson is not a fan of postmodernism. DFW often times gets labeled as one even though he didn't seem to not be a fan of it himself.
Exactly. I think they'd both agree postmodernism has its problems, but starkly disagree on what to do about it.
* I meant DFW didn't seem like a fan of postmodernism. I see the way I wrote my previous statement, it doesn't make sense.
DFW wasn't a fan of postmodern irony, not postmodernism itself. I think he'd have a hard time describing himself as anything but postmodern. All his favourite authors were postmodern, and if I recall correctly he said the only author he'd cross the street for would be Delillo.
He was 100% a fan of postmodernism, he even cited Thomas Pynchon as one of his biggest influences. Not to mention the fact that everything he wrote literally is postmodern
Ironically, Peterson is infinitely more post modernist than DFW, the way Jordan bends the definition of concepts like belief and god to sell his pseudo Christian neo conservative agenda
wtf lol first time seeing him young
wtf seeing this again after later reading the story
It's one of my favorite pieces by DFW.
I wish David Foster Wallace was alive to respond to this.
am I high or was his key takeaway giberrish? "Construe the motivational significance of events with regards to that conceptualization"
He sometimes uses $5 words when $0.05 words would do...
My takeaway is that our expectations constantly shift to exceed our circumstances. So Wallace is temporarily happy about the room service, but quickly finds ways to become disenchanted. Contentedness fades so fast, we are constantly facing the "unbearable present."
I'd say that's something like our default mode, but in practice we can transcend the impulse.
@@Carlos.Explains i can relate to this. i sometimes get irritated when people bring me food that i didn't ask for, and i'm like "i can get my own food myself if i'm hungry", and then right after i realize they're just being kind and then i get angry at myself for being irritated.
It's not your imagination. He does this often.
I searched for this clip and one or two results down was “David Foster Wallace discusses pretentious language”
Whoever decided to film this, thank you
WHAT'S THE DEEAAL WITH HUMAN EXEPECTATION-ADJUSTED VALENCE?
He is so likeable here
He still is in all the videos of his university classes up until 2017.
I still can't like him here. I've seen too much.
He is so quick that I first thought the video replay rate was increased 25%.
Yep he had a fastball.
He looks so much lighter and happier. Why do people look so dead inside when they get to midlife?
About 30 years will do its work. 🤷♂
When they sell their soul.
@@nickpapa1721 Never sell your soul, but feel free to lease it. 👹
@@Carlos.Explains Thanks, Carlos, but I'm not sure that's how a Faustian Pact works
He's jealous that the "travel writer" made lobsters more interesting than he ever could hope to.
Ong this is the best comment
I dont like jordan petersons ideas much but what he says here is quiet interesting and its a genuine reaction to someone elses ideas. Cant hate that
Why would he "hate" liking it though? Maybe he doesn't particularly care for the author, but DFW is a great writer regardless and that story is hilarious and very well written. He could've easily brought it up and quoted it without prefacing that he "hated liking it" and no one would bat an eye.
Agreed, I love DFW's writing. I find it even more amusing imagining Peterson not wanting to like the piece (maybe because he views Wallace as an elitist commenting on an easy mark, cruiseships), yet Wallace wins him over anyway.
@@Carlos.Explains Which is funny because Wallace always seemed like one of the most down to earth people in his sphere. I mean you'd think the writer of something like Infinite Jest more than likely wpuld be a fart sniffing snob lol
Could be because he read it in the Atlantic?
Because liking it means you identify with it. Identifying with bourgeois or middle class morals and aesthetics is never fun or edgy. Would recommend the piece btw 10/10.
@@aaronwalker5253 Agreed! And 10/10 piece, one of my favorites of his.
I used to like Jordan Peterson.... However today, I understand him for what he truly is, a tremendous bore.
Yeah, he almost seems likeable and well adjusted here unlike his future self that is loathing, and grim with a constant sense of bitterness leaning to anger.
I think Peterson is well aware of the lucrative brand he created and has decided to go "all in"
@@realce666 Sure, I get that, but that still doesn't change that he's a bore.
i feel like his priorities have changed is all. he is older, and different
@@patrickl5290 Respectfully, I disagree. I think the older part is right, but his getting older has made him cranky and even more combative in things that he would have let slide years ago. And, he really comes off as a superior dick, if I am being honest. I am not sure if you're aware or not, but he's had his battles with mental health, even being hospitalized for it. I am certain that this has a lot to do with how he has changed.
Dfw would have a field day with the contemporaneous jp
This era of Jordan Peterson sounds less like kermit the frog and more like jack mcbrayer
or as I know him best, fix-it felix from wreck it ralph
interesting seeing a non-seething anger complex JP, though his sophistic rhetorical self-admiring egotism still shines through even here.
Well it makes sense, Jordan is all about repeating the works of other great writers and misteaching their doctrines, especially jung.
Please give an example. Oh that's right... you have none.
Carl Gustav Jung is the best example, if anyone actually bothered to read individuation they would know the Jung is an advocate of individual expression and identity and has expressed his absolute support for Alan watts, both of them fall under the principles of socialism and liberalism, so yes he has completely taken the work of another and mispresented it to portray himself as an intellectual, when the core values of Jung are the opposite of what he represents and supports. Now that I've given that example, please demonstrate to me your rebuttal with examples without using any ad hominem points.
Also, just so I give you specific prove, so that ay you cant say I didn't, here is the literal analytical definition of his written work: "A person's becoming himself, whole, indivisible and distinct from other people or collective psychology (though also in relation to these). This is the key concept in Jung's contribution to the theories of personality development. As such, it is inextricably interwoven with others, particularly self, ego and archetype as well as with the synthesis of consciousness and unconscious elements." Carl Jung was my steeping stone into philosophy, and after reading him I was devastated to realize how wrong Peterson was, the horrors of revealing that he is the very thing Jung warned about, scrubbing your individuality in replace of political nationalist identity, or group think. you know "liberals bad "trans people aren't real" "the west has fallen" "what ever happened to me" rhetoric in exchange for identity, sad. Probably the real reason why so many feel hollow and empty, as proven by Jung. @@johnnastrom9400
@@johnnastrom9400 mad
And your work is what exactly
What do you mean? What I am is irrelevant because I am not putting on a front for others and telling them what's right wrong or how to live their lives. I don't really know what you mean though. @@leonconnelly5303
Hard to believe he ever looked this young. Meat-only diets are a hell of a drug.
Drugs are a hell of a drug.
@@myhatmygandhi6217 Moron!
It was almost 30 years ago. People do age after 30 years, Einstein.
@@johnnastrom9400 I'm sorry I was mean about your zaddy
the meat-only diet saved him, you dingus
DFW is not a travel writer
*You tell ‘em, tiger*
You mean he wasn't only a travel writer.
_Jerrrrryyyy, you've gotta help me pretend to be this architect_
*Sorry, George, listen... I can't keep being a part of this lie, these lies, George, I can't do it!*
_Jerry! Please!_
“Why couldn’t you make me an architect? You know I always wanted to pretend I was an architect!”
Why does Peterson "hate" liking this story? Because he didn't get the point of the essay. His pretense is to bend the essay to be about the "unbearable present" when it was really about the depths of infantile entitlement that is unearthed when every material need is met. He missed the point. Maybe try reading it again, Jordy.
That’s… literally what he’s on about.
Just another way of describing it.
He liked a book but he didnt like the message its pretty easy to understand
@@leonconnelly5303 Yeah that's clear, but it's the WHY that I was exploring.
I can’t not be offended he called DFW a travel writer
Cruise ships...The horror...the horror
When I see things like this clip... I really wish Peterson was not such a conservative self-righteous prick. The dude is brilliant.
"Travel writer."
The missing Kid in the Hall
This might be my favorite video on UA-cam.
WOW!
Wish I had him as a teacher
it seems christianity and patriarchy destroyed j. Peterson's mental health.
Jordan Peterson’s complete ignorance is on full display in that clip. From his teaching job at a third rate college in the wilds of the Canadian North, he refers to DFW, one of the greatest authors of his generation, as “a travel writer.”
hes second gen hot again he came full circle once he got over his midlife crisis he got hot again
this just makes me really sad. i miss when jordan peterson was smart :(
Peterson unaware that Wallace was a fabulist and that what seemed like non-fiction from Wallace was actually more fiction than non-fiction.
From the clip, it seems like Peterson was unaware of Wallace's other works. You bring up a good point though, Wallace's nonfictional voice kind of blends into fiction.
Why isn't he feigning tears and pretending God is real??
Before he sold out to the devil 😂
If Wallace were alive today, he'd tell Peterson not to read his work.
DFW would eviscerate JP
@@MikePulcinellaVideo 100%. And Jordan Peterson would have one mote thing to cry about.
Wallace wasnt mean lol, he might criticise his ideas but you dont understand him if you think he would ever tell someone not to read his work
@@jacksnackrafice6559speaking for the dead 🤡
@@MikePulcinellaVideoand he would do it with full blown self consciousness and rhetoric too - just adding to the humiliation
Why did he "hate liking it" tho? I dont understand. Ohhh because he was a postmodernist and it's part of JP's steez to hate on all postmodernists. Get off the cross, we could use the wood bud
I like that get off the cross quote, gonna steal that.
I can understand why JP, or anyone, would hate liking it. DFW easily comes across as elitist, judging the cruise goers.
@@Carlos.Explains Tim Dillon has a whole bit about judging people who go on cruises because the types of people it attracts is a cliché that turns out to be true. Most of the essay is spent sympathizing with the horribly overworked immigrant staff, and how consumerist culture fosters selfish behavior - and how despite his own prejudice they are infact people (something he elaborates on) just trying to live their lives. I'm curious if you, actually have read the essay... If not, theres a great video on youtube of him reading it.
@@brennenspice6098 I''ve seen that Tim Dillon bit, hilarious & accurate.
DFW's my favorite author and this is one of my favorites of his - so I've read it, multiple times. If memory serves me right, in a radio interview sometime after this was published, DFW regretted how he described his tablemates on the cruise.
I agree with you that more of the essay covers the topics you mentioned. My comment above wasn't meant to say that the elitism was the only bit going on. But c'mon, there's more than a whiff of elitism there. And thinking about it a bit more now, that may not have even been the thing JP "hated liking" about it...
Oh, and I love cruises.