I am Chinese. German cars and Japanese cars are updated only every four to six years. Some technologies have been lagging behind for a long time. In contrast, Chinese cars are updated in one to two years. The technologies are all new, so everyone prefers Chinese cars.
I was a medium sized business owner in the 1990`s and 2000`s.I used to buy only German cars for myself and the company after I owned a Merc W140 S-class which was brilliant.After trying all the german brands over a 10 year period, in 2004 I switched to a Honda Accord and a Honda FRV.Since then I have only bought Japanese then Korean.I now have a nine year old KIA with 135k kms and it has never had a single issue,returns 50+mpg,and holds its price well.The Germans are now simply status symbols here in the EU. I was seduced by the fantastic marketing of the German manufacturers.I had BMW,Audi,Mercedes and Volkswagens.You name it I had it Mercedes E-class,S-class,ML-series,BMW 5-series,8-series,X5,AudiA8,A6,A3,VW Passat,Golf,Polo,Bora.They were the most annoying cars always breaking down with small problems and their after sales service is an absolute joke.As you said arrogant,egotistical with a sense of they are doing YOU a favour by selling you one of their "ultimate driving machines”. The honest truth is they are industrial waste but very well branded and marketed.End of.I for one will not spare a tear for them.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the recent podcast with Ford CEO Jim Farley. He openly admits how the Chinese are dominating the car industry and why the Australian market is crucial for understanding customer behavior in an open market.
German automakers have to wake up to the fact that buyers are clamoring for electric vehicles that they are not able to offer. Besides, their premium pricing is forcing their customers to the arms of Chinese new energy vehicle makers.
Times are changing fast. Last time I was in China, four and a half years ago, I think the almost universal opinion of the Chinese was that foreign cars were much superior to Chinese brands, and maybe equally important, a status symbol. No more.
Welll... Luxury German and Japanese Cars just dont have any appeal anymore in China. Especially when they are up against the likes of Premium Chinese Brands like Nio, Avatr, Zeekr, Yangwang, even Teslas. Chinese buyers are very Tech savvy, they like Software defined cars that has great intergration with their other chinese ecosystem "App". Also Chinese Car are much much better equipped, and much more comfortable and spacious. The only thing German and Japanese cars have a leg up on the Chinese cars are performance handling, but in Chinese driving culture, it not as important has comfort and tech. Plus EVs is just so much better to run, everyone has a 3.5kw or 7kw charger in their apartment garage, the Government mandated that someone buys an EV, the apartment management has to make every effort to help install an EV charger. If they don't. they will receive a call from the Government... Trust me no body wants that.
In 1945 Germany and Japan was left with nothing. They had to reinvent it all, so new thinking and technology popped up. They invested in technology and not army. The winners of ww2 took/looted them for factories and were stuck with the old. Germany/Japan has been sleeping in class ever since. They has become so confident with their brands that nothing more happens. Now they pay the price. Sad but true
Arrogant and egotistical describe German car companies perfectly. Keep in mind, even when they were publicly saying they were against tariffs on Chinese EVs, in private they were absolutely in favor of the tariffs. They just wanted to have their cake and eat it too, they wanted to give lip service to opposing the tariffs hoping that would fool the Chinese into holding back retaliatory duties. It's the absolute height of hubris and condescension. You see it time and again with a lot of European brands, they're running off their own fumes at this point. And as we all know, pride cometh before the fall.
Arrogant and egotistical used to be a good sales tactics to sell Luxury goods. It also boost the Ego of the buyer for owning those expensive products, is their customer Base. I think the issue today is some of these Luxury Brands tries to cut cost so badly, their products kinda suck. Go drive some of these German Cars, they do not feel like the price you paid for. Cheap Interior, shoddy software, bad road noise and wind noise to name a few. The GOOD stuff cost $80k+, but that's a pretty small demographic to sell cars to.
Correct. Seen this in China for the past 6 month or so. Chinese who owned benz, bimmers, audis are switching to local brands. Which are better cars and value for money much better.
Yeah, I own an X3 and just sold an i8. I love them - amazing interior. Let's ignore the price. Now - one generation after mine - they have other the air updates. I am supposed to pay for new navi maps. The i8 was cancelled as they made not enough money - with a car that was awfully positioned. Now they FINALLY say they make an i8 M version, which - likely WILL make money as it is better positioned. But seriously, they need to learn that the OS is now part of the core car experience. And get the price down - automate.
EV changed the game. I have a hard time seeing a miraculous turn around by the old guards. There is little they excel at in building EVs. They'll follow the story of the once great British auto industry.
Even with high import tariffs imposed on Chinese EVs by the EU, the European car makers will not rise to the challenge to compete successfully with the Chinese EVs. EU has only 2 options: Maintain high tariffs for may be 10 years while EU car prices go up and most of the people of EU can't afford cars, resulting in low demand for EU cars, or, remove high tariffs and EU car industry will be destroyed. Either way, EU car industry will be hurt. The onslaught of the Chinese EVs is unpreventable. EU car industry will only survive if it can perform a miracle.
The Germans need to remember that when their brands were in demand in China, it is because they had the best products money can buy. The Chinese consumers didn't worship the German brands. They worshiped the value of their money. This fact is a constant in the Chinese market. The Chinese never had brand loyalty. They always had money loyalty.
I recognize that the Chinese don't have absolute brand loyalty, but the reference to monetary loyalty is pure nonsense. In the past, the Chinese bought German cars because they were good enough, and by the same token, they are now choosing Chinese cars because they are starting to become good enough. It's just pure market behavior, if a $50,000 Chinese car offers the same or similar quality as a $100,000 German car, why pay an absurd premium, so stop making arbitrary definitions without pretending to understand them.
absolutely, look at home many UTE driver would switch over to BYD Shark as soon as they are able to because it's many generations ahead of anything Toyota and etc can do for less money. Everything is a total ripoff once you tried a modern Chinese car.
There is a video of a new vw Passat b9 by a Chinese guy, he mentions it starts at 24000 euros in China. His mother, he mentions bought a b5 version of Passat 20 years ago for 63000 euros!
The German EVs just have nothing to offer. There are still plenty of Chinese dumb buyers who want to buy German cars just to impress their neighbors. The problem is there's nothing to impress with
The quality of the German cars has go down drastically according to JD Power and associates and US consumer report. German mass media such as DW (Deutsche Welle) also acknowledged the German car steep decline in quality.
No commercial products may not be supported either in Europe/USA or China. Or it can be said in another way, there must be no money between a government and a company. It creates unequal conditions of competition that cannot be controlled!! If countries want to change a development in society so that there are no more petrol cars, there must be legislation that other fuels must be used from a given date.
For the masses cost is important, people expect quality, up to date tech at a reasonable price. German cars in fact most European car brands offer none of this. Nissan & Kia are far too expensive for what you get also. The EU zones are in financial melt down with high interest rates for borrowing & declining growth so it looks like German cars sales will also plummet in the heartlands too.
German cars are big big trouble. I bought an Audi.... 2 years old 14000 kms driven.. like New.... it would break down for no reason. Amazing car if you are willing to spend a shit load of money on it every year. Now i have a Kia and very very happy with it😂. But yes ... the driving pleasure of a German car is on another level..... Chinese Korean Japanese do not even come close. I would say buy German with a 4 year warranty and sell it within the warranty period.
Chinese market will be half of current since population decreases to less than 600 millions. Autonomous cars and CAAS will decrease the need of cars in big cities. Car market is going to shrink remarkably. Its not about brands.
Why would you buy German cars. Every time I goto my local mechanic he has a Merc or BMW engine pulled apart to change a 5 dollar plastic part that is broken(we are talking 4 to 6 year old cars.Of course it cost thousands to pull the motor apart and put back together again.Euros had a good reputation for reliable cars not so much now.I think they build them to last 4 years(the term of the lease) and the poor sucker who buy it next cops the moneypit!
The Germans are done!!!!! Basically people are done with post covid price gauging and ill equiped German models with options and packs that add 20k plus in some circumstances. Ill miss the noise but Well played China and the way taxes are here in Australia the Benzo is moving out for a Xpeng G9 when available.!
If Germany put as much effort in to making cars as it puts in to funding, arming, and enabling Genocide in West Asia, maybe it wouldn't have these problems. Same thing for USA too.
I would think japanese brands have it worse in china more than germans. I would take a tesla, huai wei or byd over an german, japanese, korean or american car hands down.
They say Democrats in US have stopped buying Teslas. No model 2 and a much longer timeframe for fsd adoption will hurt Tesla's profitability a lot. That's why all the execs, like Baglino, jumped ship.
Lol brainwashed. Model Y, 3 and Cybertruck are leading in EV sale raking 1st, 2nd and 3rd in US. Model Y is closing on raking 1st for all vehicles sold in the US. Slightly behind RAV4 but above F150. Seriously, your brain rot is showing.
Lol brainwashed. Model Y, 3 and Cybertruck are leading in EV sale raking 1st, 2nd and 3rd in US. Model Y is closing on raking 1st for all vehicles sold in the US. Slightly behind RAV4 but above F150. Seriously, your brain rot is showing.
Lol brainwashed. Model Y, 3 and Cybertruck are leading in EV sale raking 1st, 2nd and 3rd in US. Model Y is closing on raking 1st for all vehicles sold in the US. Slightly behind RAV4 but above F150. Seriously, your brain rot is showing.
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I am Chinese. German cars and Japanese cars are updated only every four to six years. Some technologies have been lagging behind for a long time. In contrast, Chinese cars are updated in one to two years. The technologies are all new, so everyone prefers Chinese cars.
Monopoly problems LOL That's now flipped.
Good summary!
Updating the product requires capital expenditure, which reduces free cash flows, which scares away investors.
It’s pretty common, I think, for companies to go into long term decline by serving shareholders over customers.
If you had $100k to spend on a car which car would you buy ?
German legacy automakers have had their day in the sun. Nothing lasts forever.
🎶lux in the wind..
All we are is lux in the wind…🎶
I was a medium sized business owner in the 1990`s and 2000`s.I used to buy only German cars for myself and the company after I owned a Merc W140 S-class which was brilliant.After trying all the german brands over a 10 year period, in 2004 I switched to a Honda Accord and a Honda FRV.Since then I have only bought Japanese then Korean.I now have a nine year old KIA with 135k kms and it has never had a single issue,returns 50+mpg,and holds its price well.The Germans are now simply status symbols here in the EU.
I was seduced by the fantastic marketing of the German manufacturers.I had BMW,Audi,Mercedes and Volkswagens.You name it I had it Mercedes E-class,S-class,ML-series,BMW 5-series,8-series,X5,AudiA8,A6,A3,VW Passat,Golf,Polo,Bora.They were the most annoying cars always breaking down with small problems and their after sales service is an absolute joke.As you said arrogant,egotistical with a sense of they are doing YOU a favour by selling you one of their "ultimate driving machines”.
The honest truth is they are industrial waste but very well branded and marketed.End of.I for one will not spare a tear for them.
Treat your customers like shit and expect them to continue buying. Good luck !
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the recent podcast with Ford CEO Jim Farley. He openly admits how the Chinese are dominating the car industry and why the Australian market is crucial for understanding customer behavior in an open market.
German cars age way too expensive for what it is. List of options is crazy. They will end up collapsing in other areas of the world too
German automakers have to wake up to the fact that buyers are clamoring for electric vehicles that they are not able to offer. Besides, their premium pricing is forcing their customers to the arms of Chinese new energy vehicle makers.
What happened to Nokia smartphones will definitely happen to legacy ICE car makers because they failed to see the future 😅
Competition can be harsh.
Well, yeah. Thats in China. It's probably even worse for Japanese automakers.
Times are changing fast. Last time I was in China, four and a half years ago, I think the almost universal opinion of the Chinese was that foreign cars were much superior to Chinese brands, and maybe equally important, a status symbol. No more.
Welll... Luxury German and Japanese Cars just dont have any appeal anymore in China. Especially when they are up against the likes of Premium Chinese Brands like Nio, Avatr, Zeekr, Yangwang, even Teslas. Chinese buyers are very Tech savvy, they like Software defined cars that has great intergration with their other chinese ecosystem "App". Also Chinese Car are much much better equipped, and much more comfortable and spacious. The only thing German and Japanese cars have a leg up on the Chinese cars are performance handling, but in Chinese driving culture, it not as important has comfort and tech. Plus EVs is just so much better to run, everyone has a 3.5kw or 7kw charger in their apartment garage, the Government mandated that someone buys an EV, the apartment management has to make every effort to help install an EV charger. If they don't. they will receive a call from the Government... Trust me no body wants that.
In 1945 Germany and Japan was left with nothing. They had to reinvent it all, so new thinking and technology popped up. They invested in technology and not army. The winners of ww2 took/looted them for factories and were stuck with the old. Germany/Japan has been sleeping in class ever since. They has become so confident with their brands that nothing more happens. Now they pay the price. Sad but true
Arrogant and egotistical describe German car companies perfectly. Keep in mind, even when they were publicly saying they were against tariffs on Chinese EVs, in private they were absolutely in favor of the tariffs. They just wanted to have their cake and eat it too, they wanted to give lip service to opposing the tariffs hoping that would fool the Chinese into holding back retaliatory duties. It's the absolute height of hubris and condescension. You see it time and again with a lot of European brands, they're running off their own fumes at this point. And as we all know, pride cometh before the fall.
Agree, but the name I most often associate with hubris is Elon Musk. And I drive a Tesla.
Even German suppliers detest German car manufacturers.
Well said.
@@davidberinger2988 Yes but is justified in this case, Tesla is the future with cars and rockets etc.
Arrogant and egotistical used to be a good sales tactics to sell Luxury goods. It also boost the Ego of the buyer for owning those expensive products, is their customer Base.
I think the issue today is some of these Luxury Brands tries to cut cost so badly, their products kinda suck.
Go drive some of these German Cars, they do not feel like the price you paid for. Cheap Interior, shoddy software, bad road noise and wind noise to name a few. The GOOD stuff cost $80k+, but that's a pretty small demographic to sell cars to.
Correct. Seen this in China for the past 6 month or so. Chinese who owned benz, bimmers, audis are switching to local brands. Which are better cars and value for money much better.
Glad you agree!
I just think they're goners no matter what they do now. Tariffs or no tariffs.
Every brand value has to be watered down at the low end. People are dead broke,..at least in the US.
Yeah, I own an X3 and just sold an i8. I love them - amazing interior. Let's ignore the price. Now - one generation after mine - they have other the air updates. I am supposed to pay for new navi maps. The i8 was cancelled as they made not enough money - with a car that was awfully positioned. Now they FINALLY say they make an i8 M version, which - likely WILL make money as it is better positioned. But seriously, they need to learn that the OS is now part of the core car experience. And get the price down - automate.
No one needs to buy a high cost car. When the tide turns…
EV changed the game. I have a hard time seeing a miraculous turn around by the old guards. There is little they excel at in building EVs. They'll follow the story of the once great British auto industry.
Even with high import tariffs imposed on Chinese EVs by the EU, the European car makers will not rise to the challenge to compete successfully with the Chinese EVs. EU has only 2 options: Maintain high tariffs for may be 10 years while EU car prices go up and most of the people of EU can't afford cars, resulting in low demand for EU cars, or, remove high tariffs and EU car industry will be destroyed. Either way, EU car industry will be hurt. The onslaught of the Chinese EVs is unpreventable. EU car industry will only survive if it can perform a miracle.
The Germans need to remember that when their brands were in demand in China, it is because they had the best products money can buy. The Chinese consumers didn't worship the German brands. They worshiped the value of their money. This fact is a constant in the Chinese market. The Chinese never had brand loyalty. They always had money loyalty.
I recognize that the Chinese don't have absolute brand loyalty, but the reference to monetary loyalty is pure nonsense. In the past, the Chinese bought German cars because they were good enough, and by the same token, they are now choosing Chinese cars because they are starting to become good enough. It's just pure market behavior, if a $50,000 Chinese car offers the same or similar quality as a $100,000 German car, why pay an absurd premium, so stop making arbitrary definitions without pretending to understand them.
Brand loyalty is absurd.
absolutely, look at home many UTE driver would switch over to BYD Shark as soon as they are able to because it's many generations ahead of anything Toyota and etc can do for less money. Everything is a total ripoff once you tried a modern Chinese car.
There is a video of a new vw Passat b9 by a Chinese guy, he mentions it starts at 24000 euros in China. His mother, he mentions bought a b5 version of Passat 20 years ago for 63000 euros!
Chinese love there BMWs and Chinese cars are the new KIA a despicable car 🎉
The German EVs just have nothing to offer. There are still plenty of Chinese dumb buyers who want to buy German cars just to impress their neighbors. The problem is there's nothing to impress with
Doesn't help when the German Branded EV keeps going up in flames, far more frequently than genuine Chinese Brands and Tesla.
Hi Sam, you have nailed it again!
German auto makers have been making billions for years through high prices.
EVs are winning.
G6 and iX1 have the same price with same battery size in Germany
US and European automotive industry future is looking bleak. It's ridiculous. It's self inflicted so...
I don't blame them.
You all talk about chinese cars, but in Europe they don't sell well.
The quality of the German cars has go down drastically according to JD Power and associates and US consumer report.
German mass media such as DW (Deutsche Welle) also acknowledged the German car steep decline in quality.
Lol his opinion of germans attitude is right on. I work with them frequently.
Here in Australia I can buy SIX Tesla's (or other Chinese brand you prefer) for the price of a Porsche.
No commercial products may not be supported either in Europe/USA or China. Or it can be said in another way, there must be no money between a government and a company. It creates unequal conditions of competition that cannot be controlled!!
If countries want to change a development in society so that there are no more petrol cars, there must be legislation that other fuels must be used from a given date.
For the masses cost is important, people expect quality, up to date tech at a reasonable price. German cars in fact most European car brands offer none of this. Nissan & Kia are far too expensive for what you get also. The EU zones are in financial melt down with high interest rates for borrowing & declining growth so it looks like German cars sales will also plummet in the heartlands too.
German cars are big big trouble. I bought an Audi.... 2 years old 14000 kms driven.. like New.... it would break down for no reason. Amazing car if you are willing to spend a shit load of money on it every year. Now i have a Kia and very very happy with it😂.
But yes ... the driving pleasure of a German car is on another level..... Chinese Korean Japanese do not even come close. I would say buy German with a 4 year warranty and sell it within the warranty period.
German cars are way too expensive and their tech is decades outdated. And they are not really interested in EVs. Pity.
👍👍
Chinese market will be half of current since population decreases to less than 600 millions. Autonomous cars and CAAS will decrease the need of cars in big cities. Car market is going to shrink remarkably. Its not about brands.
Pandemic Only for American n European cars n nobody else
Why would you buy German cars. Every time I goto my local mechanic he has a Merc or BMW engine pulled apart to change a 5 dollar plastic part that is broken(we are talking 4 to 6 year old cars.Of course it cost thousands to pull the motor apart and put back together again.Euros had a good reputation for reliable cars not so much now.I think they build them to last 4 years(the term of the lease) and the poor sucker who buy it next cops the moneypit!
The Germans are done!!!!! Basically people are done with post covid price gauging and ill equiped German models with options and packs that add 20k plus in some circumstances. Ill miss the noise but Well played China and the way taxes are here in Australia the Benzo is moving out for a Xpeng G9 when available.!
If Germany put as much effort in to making cars as it puts in to funding, arming, and enabling Genocide in West Asia, maybe it wouldn't have these problems. Same thing for USA too.
?
The ghost of their atrocity are coming to haunt them.
Bye bye BMW getting overtaken on the Autobahn by Tesla and now Chinese car makers are eating their sales lunch.
The Germans are done.
GGPO NO RE Germany
I would think japanese brands have it worse in china more than germans. I would take a tesla, huai wei or byd over an german, japanese, korean or american car hands down.
Big trouble in little China
American n European cars Nothing but overvalued, overpriced, disastrous disgusting n in total Loss total END
It has always been politics. This was the plan from the beginning.
Denial is a disease of the mind.
These Chinese vehicles are way better for the price.
German cars are notoriously unreliable. Quality is shocking since about 2000.
They say Democrats in US have stopped buying Teslas. No model 2 and a much longer timeframe for fsd adoption will hurt Tesla's profitability a lot. That's why all the execs, like Baglino, jumped ship.
Lol brainwashed. Model Y, 3 and Cybertruck are leading in EV sale raking 1st, 2nd and 3rd in US. Model Y is closing on raking 1st for all vehicles sold in the US. Slightly behind RAV4 but above F150. Seriously, your brain rot is showing.
Lol brainwashed. Model Y, 3 and Cybertruck are leading in EV sale raking 1st, 2nd and 3rd in US. Model Y is closing on raking 1st for all vehicles sold in the US. Slightly behind RAV4 but above F150. Seriously, your brain rot is showing.
Lol brainwashed. Model Y, 3 and Cybertruck are leading in EV sale raking 1st, 2nd and 3rd in US. Model Y is closing on raking 1st for all vehicles sold in the US. Slightly behind RAV4 but above F150. Seriously, your brain rot is showing.
Xpeng makes no money. I could build cars without making money