Enjoyed the review. Wondering why the dampener was pulled to test on other bows but not the Mathews? Just wondering what the felt vibration would be without the harmonic dampener on the Lift?
Great and fair question! In general, I am removing added weights/stabilizers - which both the Darton and Hoyt system primarily are. That said, I understand that both Darton and Hoyt are including some rubber in the "stubby" stabilizers to help with vibration. But in the real world, I've observed that most people remove these in favor of more traditional stabilizer and back bar setups. But when something is purely for vibration dampening (limb dampeners, permanently affixed dampeners, etc.) I will leave them on because virtually no one is going to remove those for real world use.
Great review!!! I did notice that the string stop was pushing back the string when at rest, if you adjust it so it barely touches when at rest it will vibrate less and be quieter. Thanks again for a great review.
Absolutely! I want to bring in the RVX 34 for testing ASAP - I love to see various bow companies with unique/different approaches to engineering and I think Prime falls into that category.
Very informative review. Good job. What you says about vibration i can see the bow comes without limb dampeners. I guess with stabs and some limb dampeners this bow must be incredibly quiet... Wnen i watch my old 2018 evolve the cams are so similar. I think evolve cams and others binary cams weren created by Darton. One of the smoothest 2024 bows The bow come with extra shims??? Very detailed review Thanks
The hand scale you see me using for weighing the bows is a relatively inexpensive "luggage" hand scale from Amazon. For all of my other testing I use more accurate bow scales from Last Chance Archery.
Any chance at you getting a PSE Evolve 33 DS? You're doing great with these videos! Really appreciate how thorough and unbiased they've been. Also one of the few that mentions string angle which I appreciate (getting nit picky but when you're spending this kind of money I think we should be).
I am trying to get the Elite Ethos, Prime RVX 34 and the PSE Evo 33 DS in ASAP! I agree - I like to get nit picky and detailed. But when you are spending $1200-2100 on a bow, you should be.
Have you decided on a bow for this season? I ended up ordering a sequel 33. The lift has a much more squared riser near the grip and I couldn’t get a comfortable thumb position
This year I am trying out the Mathews LIFT. Not because I've decided anything regarding the best bow (I still have 3 to review!), but mostly because I've shot PSE and Hoyt in the last 4 years and wanted to try out a Mathews. So far, I'm getting along with it really well. It's lighter than my Hoyt RX-7 Ultra, so I've been playing with more stabilizer weights and a longer front bar.
That's a very professional review. Beware the 7000 series aluminum alloys are up to 80% higher tensile strength material, and also more rigid (stiffer, higher E modulus), thus the residual vibration, it is normal and expected. It can be disipated by rubber dampener type stabilisers (doinkers). Do you think it would fit someone with 31 1/8" draw? Thanks
You’re the first one that said it has a lot of vibration and it seemed louder then in the other reviews I’ve seen and the few guy I’ve chatted with who have one. I wonder if it needs a little tuning. Although vibration is probably the last thing I’m worried about especially since once u have all your accessories on it that will most likely go away quite a bit. Good review.
Yes, I found it interesting as well. But the bow was not obviously out of tune (timing looked synchronized on the draw board). However we were shooting it without the vibration dampener weight that comes with it. That said, the vibration was very, very noticeable. Overall, I agree - most of it will be eliminated by the time you build up the bow, and you could always add some limb dampeners.
Remember also regarding the sound: it is only 1.5 dB louder on our test than averages for other bows. That change is not really perceptible - I would say this bow is roughly equivalent to most other bows on test, aside from the Mathews LIFT which is remarkably quiet.
Great review. One additional point I would love to see is the speed at 1 additional short draw length. It would give an understanding of the cam efficiency for other archers. All and all though great review, thanks!
I absolutely love my prelude. Pulling 30.5” @72lbs. The cycle can be rough if you have never used it but my lord it’s moving my 510gr arrow at 297-300 fps. I definitely think they could be more aggressive with their marketing. Was hard to find a dealer where I am and on top of that there isn’t many videos. The videos out there are all people loving each bow for the most part. I suppose Randy is killing it since he bought them.
Interestingly, Darton owns so many patents (I've heard people estimate that its about ~70% of the patents used commonly in bows!) that it shouldn't be surprising that they make nice bows of their own! I was pleasantly surprised at the performance of the Sequel 33. Really glad to hear you're enjoying your Prelude!
@@ApexArcheryglad you liked the bow man. Maybe one day I’ll tune in and you’ll be checking out the Prelued. Thanks for responding. Says a lot about a content creator that takes the time to interact
@@Devin_S23 I love archery, archery equipment/engineering, and I love the conversation about it! Thank you for commenting - I am always interested in constructive conversations about this activity we enjoy. :)
I think you're going to like the draw cycle quite a bit - and it was producing very healthy speeds even at 68.9 lbs! Pretty surprising that, in my opinion, this bow was at least as smooth as the Hoyt, and yet it was pushing arrows several FPS faster. Sure, that is partly because of the brace height - but regardless..it was butter!
For this year I am trying out a Mathews Lift 33. In year's past I have shot PSE and Hoyt, so my goal was really just to try something new for the season. That said, this should not be taken to necessarily mean that the LIFT is deemed the best performing bow within this segment. I still have 3 more bows to review before I make that determination :)
Yep - we had the limb bolts completely tightened and the bow was maxing out at 68.9 lbs. peak weight. I suspect it might make it to 70 by adding a couple cable twists because the ATA was a little bit longer than spec.
@@ApexArchery In the last 24mo I've spent a bit of time with the following: Elite Terrain Elite EnVision Elite Omnia PSE EVO EVL 32 Athens Vista 33 Prime Revex 4 The Revex is my bow, I was amazed how much I liked it and regret not giving them a chance once they got rid of the 4 cam bows.
My spectra 32 also vibrates. I really don’t care because of how great it is. I’m wondering if it’s because they use a stiffer aluminum than most other manufacturers. Maybe that’s why they’re a little heavier as well Next year I plan on replacing it with a sequel.
That could be - they use a 7-series aluminum which is said to be stiffer and more robust. Perhaps the tradeoff is that it also translates more vibration to the hand.
So I’m not understanding why you removed the stubble stab on this but didn’t remove the harmonic stab on the lift. They’re both gonna get shot with them.. either way good review
Man I apologize for being critical, I watched the rest of the review. Dang good reviews man. Excellent definitely subscribing. The best thing about Darton though is it has scripture on the limbs, gotta spread gods word
So in general, if the purpose of the accessory is to be a stabilizer (e.g. what comes on the Hoyt, Darton, Xpedition, PSE lower mounts) then I am going to remove them. But I am not going to remove dedicated vibration dampeners such as the orbital dampers (Bowtech), nano/harmonic dampener (Mathews), shock pods (Hoyt), or any other system. Frankly, I think vibration is not worth worrying about too much - for most bows, it will more or less be gone by the time you build up the bow with all of your accessories anyway. 😀
You don't have the vibration supresser on the bow and thats how it comes. I've shot this bow and didn't get the vibration anywere near what your talking about although vibration is subjective , good review .
Thanks for the comment. As a rule of thumb, we are removing all stabilizers (including those that are supposed to help with vibration) so that bow weights and shooting experience between brands are as similar as possible.
One important thing I rarely see someone do during a review is letdown. Very important for a hunting bow to be easy to letdown. I’m gonna guess do to the drawforce curve it’s an easy bow to letdown.
Correct. My understanding is that Darton actually has so many patents on various bow components that it licenses something like 70% of the licenses IP across the industry.
The cams more comparable to the bowtech ss cams not what you showed. Darton owns patents on alot of stuff they source out to other companies like bowtech and pse I believe idk
I've had all the bows mentioned in my hands and on test, and trust me, the Darton and the PSE EC cams have a nearly identical profile. That said, the Bowtech, PSE EC and Darton cams are all quite similar in that they have a more "round" profile than some other systems. You are correct about Darton - they own a huge number of patents in the archery space, and they license these patents to most other bow companies!
Really? So research design and development are incurred costs, and they don't need to be included in the cost? Obviously, you don't own a business and probably should not. 😂
Nice job! Probably the most thorough bow review on youtube. I look forward to seeing more content from this channel.
Thank you - we have so many exciting reviews coming in the coming weeks, including some fairly rare bows!
Enjoyed the review. Wondering why the dampener was pulled to test on other bows but not the Mathews? Just wondering what the felt vibration would be without the harmonic dampener on the Lift?
Great and fair question! In general, I am removing added weights/stabilizers - which both the Darton and Hoyt system primarily are. That said, I understand that both Darton and Hoyt are including some rubber in the "stubby" stabilizers to help with vibration. But in the real world, I've observed that most people remove these in favor of more traditional stabilizer and back bar setups. But when something is purely for vibration dampening (limb dampeners, permanently affixed dampeners, etc.) I will leave them on because virtually no one is going to remove those for real world use.
Great review!!!
I did notice that the string stop was pushing back the string when at rest, if you adjust it so it barely touches when at rest it will vibrate less and be quieter. Thanks again for a great review.
Thank you!
Great review! Are you also going to review the Prime RVX 34 or RVX36?
Absolutely! I want to bring in the RVX 34 for testing ASAP - I love to see various bow companies with unique/different approaches to engineering and I think Prime falls into that category.
Very informative review. Good job. What you says about vibration i can see the bow comes without limb dampeners. I guess with stabs and some limb dampeners this bow must be incredibly quiet...
Wnen i watch my old 2018 evolve the cams are so similar. I think evolve cams and others binary cams weren created by Darton. One of the smoothest 2024 bows
The bow come with extra shims???
Very detailed review
Thanks
What draw weight scale is that? Shopping around for one right now
The hand scale you see me using for weighing the bows is a relatively inexpensive "luggage" hand scale from Amazon. For all of my other testing I use more accurate bow scales from Last Chance Archery.
I hope you're able to get an xpedition xlite to review! Thanks for doing these reviews and being able to articulate yourself without using profanity.
The Xpedition Xlite 33 is coming in for review and will be posted soon - thank you for the feedback!
Subscription incoming. You are thorough, I appreciate that
Thank you! I have 2 more reviews dropping across the next 7 days! 👀
Any chance at you getting a PSE Evolve 33 DS? You're doing great with these videos! Really appreciate how thorough and unbiased they've been. Also one of the few that mentions string angle which I appreciate (getting nit picky but when you're spending this kind of money I think we should be).
I am trying to get the Elite Ethos, Prime RVX 34 and the PSE Evo 33 DS in ASAP!
I agree - I like to get nit picky and detailed. But when you are spending $1200-2100 on a bow, you should be.
Have you decided on a bow for this season?
I ended up ordering a sequel 33. The lift has a much more squared riser near the grip and I couldn’t get a comfortable thumb position
This year I am trying out the Mathews LIFT. Not because I've decided anything regarding the best bow (I still have 3 to review!), but mostly because I've shot PSE and Hoyt in the last 4 years and wanted to try out a Mathews. So far, I'm getting along with it really well. It's lighter than my Hoyt RX-7 Ultra, so I've been playing with more stabilizer weights and a longer front bar.
I ordered a Sequel 33 also. Going to be a long wait being I’m left handed.
Another great review 👍
Thanks - this bow really surprised us! That draw cycle is buttery smooth.
That's a very professional review. Beware the 7000 series aluminum alloys are up to 80% higher tensile strength material, and also more rigid (stiffer, higher E modulus), thus the residual vibration, it is normal and expected. It can be disipated by rubber dampener type stabilisers (doinkers). Do you think it would fit someone with 31 1/8" draw? Thanks
You’re the first one that said it has a lot of vibration and it seemed louder then in the other reviews I’ve seen and the few guy I’ve chatted with who have one. I wonder if it needs a little tuning. Although vibration is probably the last thing I’m worried about especially since once u have all your accessories on it that will most likely go away quite a bit. Good review.
Yes, I found it interesting as well. But the bow was not obviously out of tune (timing looked synchronized on the draw board). However we were shooting it without the vibration dampener weight that comes with it. That said, the vibration was very, very noticeable. Overall, I agree - most of it will be eliminated by the time you build up the bow, and you could always add some limb dampeners.
Remember also regarding the sound: it is only 1.5 dB louder on our test than averages for other bows. That change is not really perceptible - I would say this bow is roughly equivalent to most other bows on test, aside from the Mathews LIFT which is remarkably quiet.
Great review. One additional point I would love to see is the speed at 1 additional short draw length. It would give an understanding of the cam efficiency for other archers. All and all though great review, thanks!
That's a great idea - thank you!
I absolutely love my prelude. Pulling 30.5” @72lbs. The cycle can be rough if you have never used it but my lord it’s moving my 510gr arrow at 297-300 fps. I definitely think they could be more aggressive with their marketing. Was hard to find a dealer where I am and on top of that there isn’t many videos. The videos out there are all people loving each bow for the most part. I suppose Randy is killing it since he bought them.
Interestingly, Darton owns so many patents (I've heard people estimate that its about ~70% of the patents used commonly in bows!) that it shouldn't be surprising that they make nice bows of their own!
I was pleasantly surprised at the performance of the Sequel 33. Really glad to hear you're enjoying your Prelude!
@@ApexArcheryglad you liked the bow man. Maybe one day I’ll tune in and you’ll be checking out the Prelued. Thanks for responding. Says a lot about a content creator that takes the time to interact
@@Devin_S23 I love archery, archery equipment/engineering, and I love the conversation about it!
Thank you for commenting - I am always interested in constructive conversations about this activity we enjoy. :)
I can’t wait to buy one. My dealer says 80lbs limbs are planned but isn’t sure of the date
I think you're going to like the draw cycle quite a bit - and it was producing very healthy speeds even at 68.9 lbs!
Pretty surprising that, in my opinion, this bow was at least as smooth as the Hoyt, and yet it was pushing arrows several FPS faster. Sure, that is partly because of the brace height - but regardless..it was butter!
What bow did u settle on for the season?
For this year I am trying out a Mathews Lift 33. In year's past I have shot PSE and Hoyt, so my goal was really just to try something new for the season. That said, this should not be taken to necessarily mean that the LIFT is deemed the best performing bow within this segment. I still have 3 more bows to review before I make that determination :)
What’s the draw weight of that bowl you’re shooting?? Is it a 50 to 60 or 60 to 70 pound ?
We test all the bows at 70 lb. of peak draw weight, and speed testing is done with a 350 grain arrow (ATA spec.)
I’d add some twist the cables and string to get it closer to 70lb and that would bring the ata closer to spec and Bh a touch too.
Absolutely - bringing that ATA in a touch with cable twists may have gotten us to the 70 lb. peak.
What was your bow max? You stated that you got 68.9 ?
Yep - we had the limb bolts completely tightened and the bow was maxing out at 68.9 lbs. peak weight. I suspect it might make it to 70 by adding a couple cable twists because the ATA was a little bit longer than spec.
I am realizing now that you may have been asking if this was, in fact, the 70# limb model. It was! :)
Hoping you can get your hands on the Prime bows. Great review, sub'd.
I've reached out to Prime and we are trying to make it happen. I'd say the RVX 34 is my most requested bow so far.
Thank you for your support!
@@ApexArchery In the last 24mo I've spent a bit of time with the following:
Elite Terrain
Elite EnVision
Elite Omnia
PSE EVO EVL 32
Athens Vista 33
Prime Revex 4
The Revex is my bow, I was amazed how much I liked it and regret not giving them a chance once they got rid of the 4 cam bows.
@@redleg318fa I've heard lots of wonderful things about the RVX 34 - can't wait to try one!
My spectra 32 also vibrates. I really don’t care because of how great it is.
I’m wondering if it’s because they use a stiffer aluminum than most other manufacturers. Maybe that’s why they’re a little heavier as well
Next year I plan on replacing it with a sequel.
That could be - they use a 7-series aluminum which is said to be stiffer and more robust. Perhaps the tradeoff is that it also translates more vibration to the hand.
Darton actually designed the Evolve Cam PSE is famous for. No wonder it has a smooth cycle
100%. Skip to 15:38 in the video to see a direct visual comparison of the PSE EC and the Darton cam. :)
Who is the other manufacturer with uncannely similar cam profiles? PSE? 🤙
Yes indeed!
So I’m not understanding why you removed the stubble stab on this but didn’t remove the harmonic stab on the lift. They’re both gonna get shot with them.. either way good review
Man I apologize for being critical, I watched the rest of the review. Dang good reviews man. Excellent definitely subscribing. The best thing about Darton though is it has scripture on the limbs, gotta spread gods word
So in general, if the purpose of the accessory is to be a stabilizer (e.g. what comes on the Hoyt, Darton, Xpedition, PSE lower mounts) then I am going to remove them. But I am not going to remove dedicated vibration dampeners such as the orbital dampers (Bowtech), nano/harmonic dampener (Mathews), shock pods (Hoyt), or any other system.
Frankly, I think vibration is not worth worrying about too much - for most bows, it will more or less be gone by the time you build up the bow with all of your accessories anyway. 😀
You don't have the vibration supresser on the bow and thats how it comes. I've shot this bow and didn't get the vibration anywere near what your talking about although vibration is subjective , good review .
Thanks for the comment. As a rule of thumb, we are removing all stabilizers (including those that are supposed to help with vibration) so that bow weights and shooting experience between brands are as similar as possible.
Hope all is well at your end. Haven’t seen anything from you in a while.
One important thing I rarely see someone do during a review is letdown. Very important for a hunting bow to be easy to letdown. I’m gonna guess do to the drawforce curve it’s an easy bow to letdown.
Great idea! Perhaps something we should add to the list of aspects to report on.
My son lives in Colorado. I’ll give him bear creeks location.
Thank you very much - please have your son tell them how he heard about their shop!
Those cams feel so close because Darton has U.S. patents that other “pse” companies pay to use.
Correct. My understanding is that Darton actually has so many patents on various bow components that it licenses something like 70% of the licenses IP across the industry.
Yea Darton are O.G’s. The archery industry wouldn’t be were it is today without a lot of there tech
The cams more comparable to the bowtech ss cams not what you showed. Darton owns patents on alot of stuff they source out to other companies like bowtech and pse I believe idk
I've had all the bows mentioned in my hands and on test, and trust me, the Darton and the PSE EC cams have a nearly identical profile. That said, the Bowtech, PSE EC and Darton cams are all quite similar in that they have a more "round" profile than some other systems.
You are correct about Darton - they own a huge number of patents in the archery space, and they license these patents to most other bow companies!
The best bow for 2024 is the bow I already own I am not paying over a thousand dollars for something that only costs 3 hundred to make
Really? So research design and development are incurred costs, and they don't need to be included in the cost? Obviously, you don't own a business and probably should not. 😂