Hello Mr. Paul Grocock, I have the 350CC version of classic RE. I had done 20451 kms on it as of May 20th, 2017. I had followed the run in period by the book (not raising it over 60 kmph, and shifting gears without over revving it). Then I watched your video, decided to try it. After trying it and 1376 kms later (short controlled bursts at every gear), with a total of 21827kms on the odo and after paying for countless tollgate tickets, I now get better pickup (mostly at 2nd,3rd and 4th gears) with very low vibrations on my bike. Though my bike tops out at 125kmph (which is okay for a 350cc RE classic), it does not vibrate so much as it did before (post 90kmph). Honestly, I've read about this method in many blogs and biker forums but never got to see any proof, which always stopped me from trying it. But in your video it was so evident (close to no vibrations on your rear view mirrors), that it itched me to try it. I was indeed very skeptical about it being successful since I have put so many kms on it already, but for my surprise it did work (though it took a lot more kms than i tot it would). I guess whats left is a big thank you. I should mention that I did upgrade my engine oil from 'mineral' to 'semi-synthetic' (15W50). I wouldn't mention the brand, as i don't want people thinking this is a promotional gimmick. kms= kilometers kmph= kilometers per hour
Jojan Joy . Great news. I am glad it worked, although I changed to fully synthetic before 2000km. I wouldn't recommend it until just over 3000km or 2000 miles as it is very slippery and stops the bike bedding in succefuly. With the KMs you have on your bike I would go fully synthetic next oil change especially during the summer months. Peace and namaste 🙏 brother.
This response and higher mileage values have encouraged me to apply this method to my C5 with 5,400 miles (indicated). Let the revving commence. Smoothness is just a few miles up the road.
Give it a go Kevin, if you have synthetic oil in it I would change it to mineral whilst you try it. Daft as it sounds fully synthetic is too slippy to hone in the rings👍 let us know how you get on making everyone jump out of there skin with your Goldie can.
Here in The States it has been challenging to find a suitable semi-synthetic oil and a number of forums had frowned on running a full synthetic after run in with concerns of clutch slippage. I run mine with Shell Rotella T 15W40, which meets the JASO Oil Standard. It's readily available and inexpensive and works very well, even though it's intended for use in diesel engines. This should stand up to a well intentioned occasional thrashing. What full synthetic oil do you plan to use?
To follow up, the bike was running great and so smooth then one day at near 1200 miles I filled her up with BP Ultimate and went for a ride of about 45 miles, when I got home it was vibrating terrible, so tried loosening the engine mounting bolts and then retightening all to no avail , so I bought one of those Carberry extra bearing kits, and fitted that on the crankshaft and it has now returned as to how it was before, I have now done 1800 miles and all is good, so that is well worth the money which was about £45 in the uk.
In fact I don't know why Enfield don't fit the Carberry to all new EFI Bullets , they must know the engine can vibrate horribly why not do something about it. I'm glad to see the new 650's seem to be smooth, and the Himalayan seems to be ok , why not stick that Himalayan engine in the Bullets !
Hi Guys I thought I would add a few comments. This will probably not work on cast iron engines, the method works well on aluminium UCE engines as well as lightweight race engines. RE do not bench run in their engine units but high rev test them in bursts. Slow honing in of compression rings on a soft aluminium lining works, but the compression and oil rings will follow micro imperfections that cause vibration due to lack of flywheel balance. Fast run in makes these imperfections more linear, reducing vibration. If you run your bike in either way it will be ok. If you take the intermittent high rev method it should give smoother performance. As in life guys there are no guarantees, but it worked for me. I am currently using the same method on my Benneli Leoncio 500
Guys please do not follow this method the reason being, when gap between bore & piston increases the oil from crank case enters the piston which will damage engine. Now for your info. this bike has a single cylinder air cooled engine and engine oil is filled right below this engine, and please note oil rings are provided for preventing engine oil entering the bore. Which will damage the bike. By following above said method you will end up re-boring your engine and replacing stock piston with much bigger piston. In Order to fix above said problem. Note: This is the reason why royal enfield recommend you not to go beyond 70KMPH speed limit. For first 500 kms. Trust me on this my dad has this bike from 1990 and now i also own the new classic 500.
Actually, this method is not new and has been proven to work over the last several decades if not longer. My personal experience is from having an 948cc MG Midget in the late 60's with a newly overhauled engine. My trusted mechanic who had worked on Ferrari's, Porsche's and many other racing cars over the years used this method. He said to absolutely NOT BABY IT during the run-in/break-in period. He said to do exactly as you suggested: intermittently take it to the red line and hold it for only a few seconds in the lower gears for the first 500 miles. I did this and the engine ran perfectly without ever burning any oil -- this is saying a lot for a vintage Brit engine, particularly as small as mine. You are right on the money. I never knew why this worked until you explained the details of the oil getting behind the piston springs (rings) and shoving them into the pistons a little harder for better "honing". Thanks for a wonderful video!
My uncle was a BRDC registered racing mechanic, I'm a mech.eng. This method is only applicable for racing engines. Road engines, indeed the entire bike, should be run-in more gently first before using full revs as described - this process of bedding-in is the final stage of running-in. The piston is already run-in at the factory, the rest of the engine and the bike as a whole needs running-in.
Some truth in what you say Paul. I recall years ago, both myself and the other rep (Mike) got two new Ford Cortina 2 litre company cars. I ran mine in by the book, and Mike thrashed the tits off his with total disregard for the running in period. At the end of the first year, it was like driving two entirely different makes of car. His was much free'er, easier to rev, and smoother too. I couldn't believe it.
Also note that when motorbikes leave factories, the engines are run at maximum load for a couple of seconds to test if all goes well. No gentle wear there...have seen that at KTM and Royal Enfield at least.
All that does is run-in the piston in the bore. It is the only part RE do run-in at the factory. The various bearings throughout the motor and gear box also need running in, not to mention the wheel bearings, swinging arm, steering head and chain; they all need running-in too.
Guys please excuse the quality on this upload, we have had problems with The Internet today, and although it was shot and uploaded in 1080p it's turned out a bit under par.
This is difficult to reconcile. The cause of vibration on singles is unbalanced primary reciprocating force, so I don't see how any sort of running in technique could reduce vibration. Although having said that, something must have happened to the engine for you to feel substantailly less vibration. Interesting. Running in is all about knocking of the micro high spots on moving surfaces in a controlled fashion. Excessive engine speed with new mating surfaces will cause localised heating, due to the micro high spots fusing and braking apart rapidly, which could damage surfaces and lead to early component failure or excessive clearances.
I'm gonna try this now as I see other riders are benefiting from it. I've ridden my RE Classic 350 as per the manual, But I still feel the vibrations in the foot pegs and rear view mirrors after completing 30000 Kms on the Odometer. Lets see if it benefits me or not.
Hi Paul - I really like your approach. I'm due to get the Classic 500 and will run it in this way. Have you done other mods like booster plug and sprocket changes ? The way you come across its seams you're pretty content with the stock bike ? Greetings from Sydney, Australia - similar conditions to Spain
Just checked UA-cam to look in to running in my classic and your vids popped up. You are answering all my questions ! Did you experience any noise from your piston rings early on? I sometimes here it at 45 mph in top gear for example. I am 350 miles from new and have been riding very steady. Any thoughts would be great. I removed my blurry mirrors for a bar end mirror instead. Just subscribed, keep up the good work!
Stacey Nixon, They tend to be a bit rough till around the 600 to 700 mile mark or 1000 km the engine seems to calm down a bit. Also you are around the first oil change mark. Another thing is although you can run the bike at 45 mph in 5th. You might get some piston slap as you are at very low revs. Thanks for subscribing.
Thanks for introducing this awesome technique Paul. Logically I feel it would work really well both to improve the power and reduce vibrations as well. My C350 will be delivered in a couple of weeks. Should I start short bursts right away like said in mototuneusa link you had shared or do you recommend any odo reading after which I should try this.
Hi, Thanks for your reply, I have no reason to doubt that it works from early on. But I felt more comfortable doing it after 500 km and the first oil change. My reasoning was that the gentle run in for the first 500 km was better for all the other internal parts to bed in, and to be honest out of some anxiety for revving my new bike. Whenever you do it you will still have to follow the recommended run in procedure as the high rev method is only for sporadic bursts. I can only confirm on the RE that it works after 500 km because of my personal experience. Its entirely up too you which way you go. kind regards Paul
Thanks very much for the video Paul. I've read through the article several times and have read discussions about it on forums. I'm planning on doing this exactly as prescribed by Motoman (first 30kms, mineral oil, oil changes etc) on my brand new RE 500cc classic. I just wanted to know if you'd advise against any part of that for any reason?
Paul Grocock Thanks for the tip Paul! Break in went well. Bike is really smooth. Little vibrations when I hit 100kmph but not much at all. Glad I did it this way.
Paul Grocock I did same on my 350cc before u make this video it works very well i can clock up to 140 really little vibration which u can see on other bikes this is the best method
Hi Paul Grocock, Which is the best semi-synthetic engine oil for Royal Enfield Classic 500 Motul 5100 15W50 or Castrol Power 1 Cruise 15W50 and when should I use Full Synthetic Engine oil for my Royal Enfield?
Ilaya Suriya . Although we have hot summers up to 40c 10w40 seems to work better on the cooler months, but still performs ok in our Summertime. In India maybe the yearly higher temps would suit 15w40. In the UK I would say 10w40 is perfect.
Sir I have classic 350 my bike is smooth up to 4 gear up to 70 kmph but it vibrates after 80 kmph in 5th gear I have done 1080 km .. How can it improve
Paul, I have a number of specific questions regarding the "hard" run-in which I will not trouble you with just yet (and yes, I have done my homework online), however, I have one question that stands out: I have read that the maximum power output is reached at 5250 RPM, and you yourself recommended a run-up to about 5000 RPM, but how do you do this if the bike is not fitted with a tachometer? I thank you in advance.
KC Elstun .The bike has a rev limiter fitted that causes the engine to cut. Once you reach the limiter note the speed in any particular gear it won't work in 5th only up to 4th. Then just take about 5kph off. It's not an exact science but you will be near the upper rev limit.
Thanks for the response, Paul. That's an elegant solution that I had not thought of. I have other questions but that's for another time. Again, I thank you for your response.
The rev limiter is in 5th too. The ECU has no gear indicator, it cannot tell which gear we're in. It's at 5400-5500 and quite instant death (unlike the Guzzi limiter which is gradual, the PCV limiter is gradual too). That is 89mph in top and my bike was hitting it regularly. Hence 'RevXtend' on the PCV to 6000rpm, and it's hit that in top too, ton-up.. I think this shows the importance of correct running-in because to get this kind of performance we normally see cams, rockers, piston and crank lightening work done. I've done no work inside the motor, only gas airflow and engine management remapping, and good thorough maintenance. Blood line on this engine is probably 6800rpm from a conservative 'road' maximum piston speed.
I have 5,400 miles on my beloved C5 and the vibrations are reasonable for a single cylinder motorcycle. That said, smoother performance is always desired if possible. Is there any benefit in your opinion to applying this method on a bike that has covered this many miles, between 40 & 60 mph? Cheers.
Hi Kevin, to be honest I cannot say, the general consensus is that after a certain period there is no longer any noticeable variation on the wall of the piston bore to effectively hone off. Mine was awful prior to using this method, as you say all Enfield's become smoother after run in. As yours is run in it certainly won't harm the bike. It may open it up a little.
Thanks very much for the reply Paul and for for your excellent videos as well. I plan apply this method now and again regardless of my mileage as I don't think it will harm the engine any. What has smoothed my bike out considerably after running in is replacing the heavy and restrictive silencer with a BSA Gold Star type. No glass fiber packing, only an inner baffle. The ECU learnt the new condition very quickly with no other modifications and the performance gain is massive. It's a different bike altogether. And as mentioned it's noticeably smoother as well.
Cheers Kevin, that will be my first mod to the bike I think. Won't harm opening your bike up. Mine hits the rev cut out about 60kph in second 90 in 3rd and 120 in 4th not sure on the MPH conversion (there's always google) in 3rd and 4th there is a definite power band most people never hit, that said I prefer to chill out and enjoy the ride on the RE. Safe biking 😎
Kevin, yes. I didn't start putting more revs into mine until 1200-1500 miles. I may have first suggested it to Paul but Paul has done further research online himself. As an engineer myself, and having rebuilt other engines, it's the normal method (no it is not done from the outset) - let's read the manual - after 1000km - "Avoid full throttle operation. Vary speed occasionally". What does that mean? Up to 1000km we've only been using the bike to 90kph (honest), which is about 3500rpm in top, it's not even in the power band (4000-5250). So after the 1000km running in we *should* start using progressively more revs. The way to do it is start feeding it more revs as you go up through the gears. Try to feel the engine, don't go giving it full chat all at once, go 5, 10, 15mph faster before changing up. We do not want to take it to the rev limiter straight away. That can also mean going through a 30mph zone in 3rd (about 2750rpm), if it's not too noisy. But never ever hold an engine at the red line in low gear, it is too easy to damage the motor. Some riders never take this motor over 4000rpm, if you do that it will always vibrate. What is happening? Well Paul explained the piston and cylinder but there are also various shafts and bearings in the engine and gearbox that need some work putting into them so they spin more freely and evenly. If a shaft is not spinning smoothly it will chatter and vibrate.
Hi Paul, i have standard 500 (Carburetor) and its 2014 make. There is hell lot vibration b/w 40-60 speed and if i go above 100kmph it seems like i am sitting on active volcano and it will burst anytime. Can you suggest how to fix/reduce the vibrations. P.S. not able to find your video which is uploaded and explained how to fix the vibration.
Hi Robin, it seems excessive if it's vibrating 40 to 60, you could try and few short bursts until the rev limiter kicks in in second and 3rd gear, often people short shift on REs because they go by engine noise, this means that the motor has never run at high revs. Worth a try to see if it opens up a bit and smooths out.
I don't think vibrations should be considered a problem for a combustion engine. It is the direct effect of parts movements combined with frequent small scale explosions. As a consequence any effort to reduce vibrations without mechanical devices shuld be avoided. Thinking you can reduce vibrations by breaking in an engine in an unconventional manner is a little shortsighted and may result in harming the longevity and reliability of the engine itself.
+safewaycart . I beg to differ, I have had plenty of single long stroke bikes and none vibrate like the Enfield, this only confirms my conclusion that the machining of the RE bore and lack of bench run in give a engine that produces vibration through different or poorer milling than Japanese singles for example. The hard run in has worked for me, and due to the small honing in time of the RE 500km a hard run in early is preferable as per the link from motousa
The normal procedure for early running in seems sensible but it is still not quite clear why an engine should run with less vibration afterwards, especially since that is deemed mainly to depend upon balance. If running in does really make a difference then perhaps engines which still seem to vibrate excessively have just not had enough of it...round here it is all 30, 40, and even 20mph speed limits, and the Enfield is just ideal for its torque and comfort. On the motorway 50 to 55 on the clock is best to avoid much turbulence. At that rate vibration is no problem at all and journey time is only very slightly greater than at 70mph. It's just the same as the old fashioned 500s and that's exactly why it is so nice to ride!
It certainly works on any of the EFI engines. I was in correspondence with a high-mileage chap who did it successfully at 25,000 miles (40,000km), apparently a year's riding for him commuting from Netherlands into Germany each day on euro-route.
precisely Paul :) short bursts, change up later through the gears pushing that vibration point a bit each time. It's too easy to over-rev in 1st but certainly in 2nd, 3rd and 4th. Eventually I was hitting the rev-limiter in 4th and 5th too often and so I implemented 'RevXtend' on the Power Commander 5 and went on to 6000rpm.. Over 4000 miles now 3yo and the engine runs as sweet as a nut, tappets and rockers ticking like a swiss watch.
Avaneeth SR first change to motul oil its synthetic oil which will reduce vibration by 70% and tight all the bolts and nuts and try this method it will work
Hello Mr. Paul Grocock,
I have the 350CC version of classic RE. I had done 20451 kms on it as of May 20th, 2017. I had followed the run in period by the book (not raising it over 60 kmph, and shifting gears without over revving it).
Then I watched your video, decided to try it. After trying it and 1376 kms later (short controlled bursts at every gear), with a total of 21827kms on the odo and after paying for countless tollgate tickets, I now get better pickup (mostly at 2nd,3rd and 4th gears) with very low vibrations on my bike. Though my bike tops out at 125kmph (which is okay for a 350cc RE classic), it does not vibrate so much as it did before (post 90kmph).
Honestly, I've read about this method in many blogs and biker forums but never got to see any proof, which always stopped me from trying it. But in your video it was so evident (close to no vibrations on your rear view mirrors), that it itched me to try it. I was indeed very skeptical about it being successful since I have put so many kms on it already, but for my surprise it did work (though it took a lot more kms than i tot it would).
I guess whats left is a big thank you.
I should mention that I did upgrade my engine oil from 'mineral' to 'semi-synthetic' (15W50). I wouldn't mention the brand, as i don't want people thinking this is a promotional gimmick.
kms= kilometers
kmph= kilometers per hour
Jojan Joy . Great news. I am glad it worked, although I changed to fully synthetic before 2000km. I wouldn't recommend it until just over 3000km or 2000 miles as it is very slippery and stops the bike bedding in succefuly. With the KMs you have on your bike I would go fully synthetic next oil change especially during the summer months. Peace and namaste 🙏 brother.
This response and higher mileage values have encouraged me to apply this method to my C5 with 5,400 miles (indicated). Let the revving commence. Smoothness is just a few miles up the road.
Give it a go Kevin, if you have synthetic oil in it I would change it to mineral whilst you try it. Daft as it sounds fully synthetic is too slippy to hone in the rings👍 let us know how you get on making everyone jump out of there skin with your Goldie can.
Here in The States it has been challenging to find a suitable semi-synthetic oil and a number of forums had frowned on running a full synthetic after run in with concerns of clutch slippage. I run mine with Shell Rotella T 15W40, which meets the JASO Oil Standard. It's readily available and inexpensive and works very well, even though it's intended for use in diesel engines. This should stand up to a well intentioned occasional thrashing. What full synthetic oil do you plan to use?
Kevin Daly. castrol power 1 15w 50 if you can get it, semi synthetic for bikes
worked well for my classic, done a thousand miles now and is smooth, thanks Paul.
To follow up, the bike was running great and so smooth then one day at near 1200 miles I filled her up with BP Ultimate and went for a ride of about 45 miles, when I got home it was vibrating terrible, so tried loosening the engine mounting bolts and then retightening all to no avail , so I bought one of those Carberry extra bearing kits, and fitted that on the crankshaft and it has now returned as to how it was before, I have now done 1800 miles and all is good, so that is well worth the money which was about £45 in the uk.
In fact I don't know why Enfield don't fit the Carberry to all new EFI Bullets , they must know the engine can vibrate horribly why not do something about it.
I'm glad to see the new 650's seem to be smooth, and the Himalayan seems to be ok , why not stick that Himalayan engine in the Bullets !
Hi Guys I thought I would add a few comments. This will probably not work on cast iron engines, the method works well on aluminium UCE engines as well as lightweight race engines. RE do not bench run in their engine units but high rev test them in bursts. Slow honing in of compression rings on a soft aluminium lining works, but the compression and oil rings will follow micro imperfections that cause vibration due to lack of flywheel balance. Fast run in makes these imperfections more linear, reducing vibration. If you run your bike in either way it will be ok. If you take the intermittent high rev method it should give smoother performance. As in life guys there are no guarantees, but it worked for me. I am currently using the same method on my Benneli Leoncio 500
Guys please do not follow this method
the reason being, when gap between bore & piston increases the oil from crank case enters the piston which will damage engine. Now for your info. this bike has a single cylinder air cooled engine and engine oil is filled right below this engine, and please note oil rings are provided for preventing engine oil entering the bore. Which will damage the bike.
By following above said method you will end up re-boring your engine and replacing stock piston with much bigger piston. In Order to fix above said problem.
Note: This is the reason why royal enfield recommend you not to go beyond 70KMPH speed limit. For first 500 kms.
Trust me on this my dad has this bike from 1990 and now i also own the new classic 500.
Actually, this method is not new and has been proven to work over the last several decades if not longer. My personal experience is from having an 948cc MG Midget in the late 60's with a newly overhauled engine. My trusted mechanic who had worked on Ferrari's, Porsche's and many other racing cars over the years used this method. He said to absolutely NOT BABY IT during the run-in/break-in period. He said to do exactly as you suggested: intermittently take it to the red line and hold it for only a few seconds in the lower gears for the first 500 miles. I did this and the engine ran perfectly without ever burning any oil -- this is saying a lot for a vintage Brit engine, particularly as small as mine.
You are right on the money. I never knew why this worked until you explained the details of the oil getting behind the piston springs (rings) and shoving them into the pistons a little harder for better "honing". Thanks for a wonderful video!
Thank you for your comments and real world experience. Kind regards Paul
My uncle was a BRDC registered racing mechanic, I'm a mech.eng. This method is only applicable for racing engines. Road engines, indeed the entire bike, should be run-in more gently first before using full revs as described - this process of bedding-in is the final stage of running-in.
The piston is already run-in at the factory, the rest of the engine and the bike as a whole needs running-in.
Some truth in what you say Paul. I recall years ago, both myself and the other rep (Mike) got two new Ford Cortina 2 litre company cars. I ran mine in by the book, and Mike thrashed the tits off his with total disregard for the running in period. At the end of the first year, it was like driving two entirely different makes of car. His was much free'er, easier to rev, and smoother too. I couldn't believe it.
Also note that when motorbikes leave factories, the engines are run at maximum load for a couple of seconds to test if all goes well. No gentle wear there...have seen that at KTM and Royal Enfield at least.
All that does is run-in the piston in the bore. It is the only part RE do run-in at the factory. The various bearings throughout the motor and gear box also need running in, not to mention the wheel bearings, swinging arm, steering head and chain; they all need running-in too.
Guys please excuse the quality on this upload, we have had problems with The Internet today, and although it was shot and uploaded in 1080p it's turned out a bit under par.
castrol power 15w 50 semi synthetic for bikes is great if you can get it. expensive here in Spain 37€ for 4 ltres
This is difficult to reconcile. The cause of vibration on singles is unbalanced primary reciprocating force, so I don't see how any sort of running in technique could reduce vibration. Although having said that, something must have happened to the engine for you to feel substantailly less vibration. Interesting. Running in is all about knocking of the micro high spots on moving surfaces in a controlled fashion. Excessive engine speed with new mating surfaces will cause localised heating, due to the micro high spots fusing and braking apart rapidly, which could damage surfaces and lead to early component failure or excessive clearances.
Agreed!
I'm gonna try this now as I see other riders are benefiting from it. I've ridden my RE Classic 350 as per the manual, But I still feel the vibrations in the foot pegs and rear view mirrors after completing 30000 Kms on the Odometer. Lets see if it benefits me or not.
Bhanujirao Veeraghattam did it go successful??
tariq hussain still trying brother. Hyderabad has bad roads in monsoon. Will update.
Did it help? Would be interesting to know.
Hi Paul - I really like your approach. I'm due to get the Classic 500 and will run it in this way. Have you done other mods like booster plug and sprocket changes ? The way you come across its seams you're pretty content with the stock bike ? Greetings from Sydney, Australia - similar conditions to Spain
Just checked UA-cam to look in to running in my classic and your vids popped up. You are answering all my questions ! Did you experience any noise from your piston rings early on? I sometimes here it at 45 mph in top gear for example. I am 350 miles from new and have been riding very steady. Any thoughts would be great. I removed my blurry mirrors for a bar end mirror instead. Just subscribed, keep up the good work!
Stacey Nixon, They tend to be a bit rough till around the 600 to 700 mile mark or 1000 km the engine seems to calm down a bit. Also you are around the first oil change mark. Another thing is although you can run the bike at 45 mph in 5th. You might get some piston slap as you are at very low revs. Thanks for subscribing.
Thanks for introducing this awesome technique Paul. Logically I feel it would work really well both to improve the power and reduce vibrations as well. My C350 will be delivered in a couple of weeks. Should I start short bursts right away like said in mototuneusa link you had shared or do you recommend any odo reading after which I should try this.
Hi, Thanks for your reply, I have no reason to doubt that it works from early on. But I felt more comfortable doing it after 500 km and the first oil change. My reasoning was that the gentle run in for the first 500 km was better for all the other internal parts to bed in, and to be honest out of some anxiety for revving my new bike. Whenever you do it you will still have to follow the recommended run in procedure as the high rev method is only for sporadic bursts. I can only confirm on the RE that it works after 500 km because of my personal experience. Its entirely up too you which way you go. kind regards Paul
Hello Paul , thank you for your input, most interesting, I hope all is well , cheers.
Thanks John 😎
I have a 2012 classic 500 with 13000km on the clock. Can I still use this method to smooth things out?
Thanks very much for the video Paul. I've read through the article several times and have read discussions about it on forums. I'm planning on doing this exactly as prescribed by Motoman (first 30kms, mineral oil, oil changes etc) on my brand new RE 500cc classic. I just wanted to know if you'd advise against any part of that for any reason?
Mo Zowayed . No sounds good, go to semi synthetic after around 1500km, gives a much smoother engine in my opinion.
Paul Grocock Thanks for the tip Paul! Break in went well. Bike is really smooth. Little vibrations when I hit 100kmph but not much at all. Glad I did it this way.
Mo Zowayed , Hi glad it went ok, I changed to semi synthetic oil after the 1000km mark. Ride safe regards Paul
Paul Grocock I did same on my 350cc before u make this video it works very well i can clock up to 140 really little vibration which u can see on other bikes this is the best method
Hi Paul Grocock, Which is the best semi-synthetic engine oil for Royal Enfield Classic 500 Motul 5100 15W50 or Castrol Power 1 Cruise 15W50 and when should I use Full Synthetic Engine oil for my Royal Enfield?
This is the best
www.amazon.co.uk/Mobil-10W-40-Synthetic-Motorcycle-142322/dp/B004A7EZ7I
@@motechRevolution Why 10W40 instead of 15W50 that is recommended by royal enfield
Ilaya Suriya . Although we have hot summers up to 40c 10w40 seems to work better on the cooler months, but still performs ok in our Summertime. In India maybe the yearly higher temps would suit 15w40. In the UK I would say 10w40 is perfect.
excellent explanation of the thinking behind what some call hard run in method. thx
Windy Run. Cheers, thanks for commenting
Paul Grocock what made u choose royal Enfield
Sir I have classic 350 my bike is smooth up to 4 gear up to 70 kmph but it vibrates after 80 kmph in 5th gear I have done 1080 km ..
How can it improve
Paul, I have a number of specific questions regarding the "hard" run-in which I will not trouble you with just yet (and yes, I have done my homework online), however, I have one question that stands out: I have read that the maximum power output is reached at 5250 RPM, and you yourself recommended a run-up to about 5000 RPM, but how do you do this if the bike is not fitted with a tachometer? I thank you in advance.
KC Elstun .The bike has a rev limiter fitted that causes the engine to cut. Once you reach the limiter note the speed in any particular gear it won't work in 5th only up to 4th. Then just take about 5kph off. It's not an exact science but you will be near the upper rev limit.
Thanks for the response, Paul. That's an elegant solution that I had not thought of. I have other questions but that's for another time. Again, I thank you for your response.
The rev limiter is in 5th too. The ECU has no gear indicator, it cannot tell which gear we're in. It's at 5400-5500 and quite instant death (unlike the Guzzi limiter which is gradual, the PCV limiter is gradual too). That is 89mph in top and my bike was hitting it regularly. Hence 'RevXtend' on the PCV to 6000rpm, and it's hit that in top too, ton-up..
I think this shows the importance of correct running-in because to get this kind of performance we normally see cams, rockers, piston and crank lightening work done. I've done no work inside the motor, only gas airflow and engine management remapping, and good thorough maintenance.
Blood line on this engine is probably 6800rpm from a conservative 'road' maximum piston speed.
When do you explain what to do exactly?
Ayon Sinha . Link in the description. But take a look at the original video I made it explains more, this video was a follow up.
Ayon Sinha . ua-cam.com/video/VD4xwMcocDM/v-deo.html
True, understand nothing🤣✌🤣
I have 5,400 miles on my beloved C5 and the vibrations are reasonable for a single cylinder motorcycle. That said, smoother performance is always desired if possible. Is there any benefit in your opinion to applying this method on a bike that has covered this many miles, between 40 & 60 mph? Cheers.
Hi Kevin, to be honest I cannot say, the general consensus is that after a certain period there is no longer any noticeable variation on the wall of the piston bore to effectively hone off. Mine was awful prior to using this method, as you say all Enfield's become smoother after run in. As yours is run in it certainly won't harm the bike. It may open it up a little.
Thanks very much for the reply Paul and for for your excellent videos as well. I plan apply this method now and again regardless of my mileage as I don't think it will harm the engine any. What has smoothed my bike out considerably after running in is replacing the heavy and restrictive silencer with a BSA Gold Star type. No glass fiber packing, only an inner baffle. The ECU learnt the new condition very quickly with no other modifications and the performance gain is massive. It's a different bike altogether. And as mentioned it's noticeably smoother as well.
Cheers Kevin, that will be my first mod to the bike I think. Won't harm opening your bike up. Mine hits the rev cut out about 60kph in second 90 in 3rd and 120 in 4th not sure on the MPH conversion (there's always google) in 3rd and 4th there is a definite power band most people never hit, that said I prefer to chill out and enjoy the ride on the RE. Safe biking 😎
Kevin, yes. I didn't start putting more revs into mine until 1200-1500 miles. I may have first suggested it to Paul but Paul has done further research online himself. As an engineer myself, and having rebuilt other engines, it's the normal method (no it is not done from the outset) - let's read the manual - after 1000km - "Avoid full throttle operation. Vary speed occasionally".
What does that mean? Up to 1000km we've only been using the bike to 90kph (honest), which is about 3500rpm in top, it's not even in the power band (4000-5250). So after the 1000km running in we *should* start using progressively more revs. The way to do it is start feeding it more revs as you go up through the gears. Try to feel the engine, don't go giving it full chat all at once, go 5, 10, 15mph faster before changing up. We do not want to take it to the rev limiter straight away. That can also mean going through a 30mph zone in 3rd (about 2750rpm), if it's not too noisy. But never ever hold an engine at the red line in low gear, it is too easy to damage the motor. Some riders never take this motor over 4000rpm, if you do that it will always vibrate.
What is happening? Well Paul explained the piston and cylinder but there are also various shafts and bearings in the engine and gearbox that need some work putting into them so they spin more freely and evenly. If a shaft is not spinning smoothly it will chatter and vibrate.
Hi Jeff. Read the attached link. You will be surprised. They are race techs and the advocate in the first few miles. It's an interesting read
Hi Paul, i have standard 500 (Carburetor) and its 2014 make. There is hell lot vibration b/w 40-60 speed and if i go above 100kmph it seems like i am sitting on active volcano and it will burst anytime. Can you suggest how to fix/reduce the vibrations.
P.S. not able to find your video which is uploaded and explained how to fix the vibration.
Hi Robin, it seems excessive if it's vibrating 40 to 60, you could try and few short bursts until the rev limiter kicks in in second and 3rd gear, often people short shift on REs because they go by engine noise, this means that the motor has never run at high revs. Worth a try to see if it opens up a bit and smooths out.
Paul Grocock thanks for ur reply, i am going to make few changes this weekend lets see if it helps.
@@RobinSingh-bj8yt did it work?
I don't think vibrations should be considered a problem for a combustion engine. It is the direct effect of parts movements combined with frequent small scale explosions. As a consequence any effort to reduce vibrations without mechanical devices shuld be avoided. Thinking you can reduce vibrations by breaking in an engine in an unconventional manner is a little shortsighted and may result in harming the longevity and reliability of the engine itself.
+safewaycart . I beg to differ, I have had plenty of single long stroke bikes and none vibrate like the Enfield, this only confirms my conclusion that the machining of the RE bore and lack of bench run in give a engine that produces vibration through different or poorer milling than Japanese singles for example. The hard run in has worked for me, and due to the small honing in time of the RE 500km a hard run in early is preferable as per the link from motousa
The normal procedure for early running in seems sensible but it is still not quite clear why an engine should run with less vibration afterwards, especially since that is deemed mainly to depend upon balance.
If running in does really make a difference then perhaps engines which still seem to vibrate excessively have just not had enough of it...round here it is all 30, 40, and even 20mph speed limits, and the Enfield is just ideal for its torque and comfort.
On the motorway 50 to 55 on the clock is best to avoid much turbulence. At that rate vibration is no problem at all and journey time is only very slightly greater than at 70mph.
It's just the same as the old fashioned 500s and that's exactly why it is so nice to ride!
hi I also own a classic 500 which has done 11000kms can I try it
my bike vibrates a lot above 90kmph
tariq hussain . Give a go and see if it helps
Paul Grocock so how long should I ride in high revs pls explain 1 month or how much kilometers like that??
Paul Grocock sir please explain how long(how many days) should keep riding in high revs
awaiting your reply...
tariq hussain . take a look at my vibrations video. In the description is a link to an article explaining in more depth
tariq hussain at least drive for 3000kms use motul oil which is 850 only
Will it work in Royal Enfield Thunder bird
I am guessing so, it is a standard run in procedure for race engines
@@motechRevolution thanks for replying...it won't have any problem after long term??
Short bursts will not harm the motor. If you ran it flat out in 2nd or 3rd it would be different. Short hard bursts you will be fine.
It certainly works on any of the EFI engines. I was in correspondence with a high-mileage chap who did it successfully at 25,000 miles (40,000km), apparently a year's riding for him commuting from Netherlands into Germany each day on euro-route.
precisely Paul :) short bursts, change up later through the gears pushing that vibration point a bit each time. It's too easy to over-rev in 1st but certainly in 2nd, 3rd and 4th. Eventually I was hitting the rev-limiter in 4th and 5th too often and so I implemented 'RevXtend' on the Power Commander 5 and went on to 6000rpm.. Over 4000 miles now 3yo and the engine runs as sweet as a nut, tappets and rockers ticking like a swiss watch.
Can i use this method on my bike which has covered 4000 kms
I cannot see why not, maybe change the oil first although it probably doesn’t need a change at 4000kms
Paul Grocock thanks a lot what is the maximum kms should I take on 2, 3, 4 gears. 500cc
Vignesh Sengottuvelu. I would try in 3rd and 4th gear mine will do around 80 and 100kmph easily. Just do short bursts though.
Paul Grocock thanks a lot
can u clarify plz on how to do the method!!
Avaneeth SR . Hi click in the link in the full description and read the article. regards Paul
Paul Grocock thanks still can u show a vedio showing a method on step by step
Avaneeth SR . Yes I will sort a video out .
Paul Grocock it does not tell us the for how many kilometers or how many repetitions need to be done
Avaneeth SR first change to motul oil its synthetic oil which will reduce vibration by 70% and tight all the bolts and nuts and try this method it will work