Hi Andrew. I love your commentaries and 5 years ago we were avid roof top bush campers. I had camped and towed (boats etc) all my life, and swore blind that I'd never tow a caravan, and would have applauded every word you say. But, we got tired of just driving from night stop to night stop, and eventually succumbed to a caravan. Adventure then became about remote destinations, set up for departure became quick and easy, and a simple camp set up is faster than our old roof top. Now we set up and can do day trips to explore anywhere the car can get to, or go on game drives without packing the tent away. Jurgens started the off road caravan revolution and spawned numerous small manufacturers of caravans designed for off road rather than adapted for off road. Our caravan tows magnificently, hasnt stopped us getting to anywhere and the biggest problem being that I forget about it! So yes, a compact and robust offroad caravan has its place and it depends upon whether you want to drive from place to place or explore and get a greater appreciation of remote destinations
Excellent, thanks! My wife and I are in our 70’s and we have traveled from Portland Oregon to Ushuaia Argentina and on to Inuvik, North West Territories, all on a BMW1200GS motorcycle. We camped 65% of the time in a 3 man tent. We just bought our first Travel Trailer, about time for a bit of luxury!
Thanks for sharing your experiences with Towing. I can completely see why you prefer not to tow based on your history. From our experience the off-road caravan and camper industry has changed a lot since your Juergen experiences. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on a modern day camper trailer with independent suspension and articulating hitch. Campers from the likes of Patriot, Trackabout, BRS and Lifestyle among others appear to tick the boxes for what your after. Quick, convenient set up and designed for Towing on tough tracks. At the same time if a kitted our 4x4 is all you need, do what works best for you!
Hit the nail on the head Andrew. I hate being limited because I’m towing. I’d much rather be a bit less comfortable while camping, than a lot less comfortable when driving.
I couldn't agree more, towing a trailer is a stressful bitch that I dread especially when traveling alone. I am looking for a light weight slide in camper for my Ram, nothing lavish, a popup top and a toilet, TV and AC not required.
All valid points Andrew. I had a nice compact offroad trailer with rooftop tent when I lived in Namibia for a few years. I could not justify the trade-off for towing a bigger caravan off road. My trailer had a rooftop tent on it, gas cooker, shower, water tank, extra fuel etc and loved it. I like the option depending on the trip to set up camp/trailer with tent deployed and then I'm free to travel around if safe to leave the trailer at camp site. My Venter Bush Baby trailer with straight leaf spring axle wasn't that heavy and towed very nicely. It had the same axle width and wheel size as my Nissan Patrol 4x4 and with one spare wheel on my Nissan and one on my trailer, I essentially had 2x spare wheels. Depending on the trip you can opt to leave the trailer and put tent on roof of car. I loved the options. Choked up when I sold it. Jurgen's XT trailers aren't bad at all.
Many many videos from 4wd Action show campers being towed in many of Australia's toughest tracks including the Victorian high country and even down gunshot creek. You had mention if this was possible, if you take time to watch these examples I believe you will have the answer to your question.
I have a jayco swan and it's pretty much an Ikea kitchen with beds on wheels. I consider it glamping; it's fun and easy and ideal for camping with kids. Now I'm putting together my 4x4 camping setup, where it's tents/swags and bare basics. Both styles of camping appeal to me for different reasons.
You said it many times "in my experience". That's enough for me to never consider a camper trailer in an off road trip. I can see many difficulties of my own plus this story added a few issues I didn't think of. Nicely done Andrew.
Well built Camper Trailers (approx. at the R160 000+ mark it seems) have a place in an off road trip. They can be used as a base camp like a tent. There are too many drawbacks like having to find a secure area as the Bush always seems to have creatures or people with long fingers! For what the Channel owner does, I doubt a camper trailer would work for him. As he goes on very remote roads that last saw any form of work when they were created. I agree, each traveler has to use the most appropriate tools for the trips they take.
I always to my Supra conquer trailer at 120km, leafsprings, shock absorbers, packed properly...never had an issue of swaying of any kind. Pack properly, buy the correct trailer or caravan with the right specs.
In the north of Scandinavia, the choise between towing and not towing is two fold. 1. Are you camping or "glamping" 2a. What are your axel pressure 2b. What are your clearance below your vehicle.
I agree on everything you stated about towing. I have camped on the ground all my life with and without tents and cots. My body has taken a toll over the 63 years so I need a little more comfort so now I tow! Now I camp all year and in some of the hardest of weather. My trailer is built for moderate off roading. When I am alone at my age I’ll take the less changeling track. When I am with my buds / mates game on!!!!
There is another reason that is a major one. In South Africa, the smallest trailer starts out at R150,000 for a base version and by the time it is reasonably kitted out, it will be a quarter of a million rand. On the other hand, I can buy a two-person frame tent for R9,000 and with all the accessories including a camp kitchen, side walls to turn the veranda into a front room as well as stretcher, camp cupboard etc, R30,000 will cover everything. My personal preference is not really overlanding but setting up in one spot for a week and using that as the base for daily exploring, sightseeing, 4x4 trails, bird watching and game viewing.
The pickup truck with a cab-over camper is ideal. Been living out of one full time for months now. Love it! Looking forward to what you come up with, Andrew!
Usually when I'm in my rig I go off and explore some. Many times I have been in tight places and was real glad I didn't have to try and get out of there with a trailer attached. If you're sticking to a well planned and mapped route I can see it. But going off into the unknown with a trailer is too much of a liability.
Yup! Followed this plan over the last number of years .. minimal as possible. With me being single the back seats were thrown and I built a bed and storage inside a 2dr Ford Explorer. I'm 74 and climbing up and down out of a roof top tent to pee .. or cramps .. how do you get down to shake off a bad cramp? Hard enough getting out of the SUV. After years of trying to come up with a safe way to heat my mini RV I finally came up with the most simplest and effective heater for my cabin .. a regular old kerosene lantern that burns paraffin. Simple and effective. I do watch all the stuff that Andrew puts out .. and because of it I've been able to build a pretty decent 4wd off road rig that suits my travels perfectly.
Andrew, just watching your comments about towing and the way a trailer can behave when you want to slow down. The solution is to install a Red Arc Brake controller. it works on the play betwwen the initial pressure on the brake pedal and when pressure is actually applied to the brake master cylinder. Result: the brakles on the TOWED trailer are applied first and it will not sway. I brought a 2 tonne tug boat back from Armidale in NSW down the Moonbie Ranges all the way back to Perth -- no worries!. You only need one controller in the tow vehiicle but one hydraulic controller on EACH heavy trailer you plan to tow, so in my case that would be: one for the tug boat trailer and one for the eco caravan. It goes without saying yoiu can only tow one trailer at a time.
Years after you posted this but still valid info. There are times when I thought about towing an offroad caravan but since I travel solo it would be a waste of time and money. Heck, my 97 LC 80 still needs work (head gasket and engine reseal) which I won't be able to do working overseas from the States. Once I return and get the rig sorted out I'm sure it won't be long before I move from sleeping inside the rig to an RTT. So many models to choose from and still not sure which style to go with. The bigger tent type RTT's give more room but not as fast to set up/tear down nor are the streamlined when compared to an aluminum version. Living vicariously through your channel. Thanks.
Caravans are great if they're easy to back and do U turns because in Africa you're gonna do a lot of those because an Official tells you to go back or the road you're on is flooded.
I think the combination of a capable troopy which is fitted out mainly for living in during bad weather etc. and doing solo trips, this means more a rudimentary kitchen and more focus on seating, and a small one axle offroad trailer with all the bits and pieces, additional fuel and water capacity, shower and a decent kitchen, would be worth testing. From my point of view , this could tick a lot of boxes and the versatility with this combination would be impressiv. Solo Trip (check), couple (check), couple and kids or friends (check). and with increasing number of passangers the comfort increases but the offroad capability decreases and visa versa. What do you t hink @4xoverland ?
I am going through your old videos. This is a really well balanced presentation. My own opinion is I wouldn’t tow anything off road. The comfort isn’t worth the complexity. If I am out in the bush I am on holidays. I can put up with a bit of discomfort for a few weeks. As long as you have something to sit on, and have reasonably comfortable night’s sleep, that is fine. A decent tent, sleeping bag, and a decent hiking mat (Exped for me) is fine.
I am also going through old videos and understand/like your comment. From a different point of view, my wife and I are now getting a bit long in the tooth and really enjoy towing. For example, last year we spent 19 nights in the Vic high country. We have a 20plus year old Kimberley camper which we would set-up for 2 nights which we pack very lightly (except it carries the fuel we need for such a stay) with for example only 2 x knife,fork, plates etc, no fancy stuff. From there, we would explore with our average, light duel-cab ute which only had us, a few tools, some recovery gear and a packed lunch. We covered almost all of the iconic tracks, where we either assisted or idled around very expensive, modified vehicles which carry all the mod cons. I agree that a bit of discomfort is just part of a great remote experience, and to keep it basic but still tow allows people like me to still walk upright in the morning and to get to places with an old ute which is basically empty. I hope you are getting the opportunity to get out there and I wish you safe travels.
It's not really balanced when one complains about the time to setup something for the first time, and if you're trailer is swaying on the highway simply you loaded it wrong.
We have just recently bought a hard floor camper and at 65 it is a pleasure to have the luxuries. Just spent 10 days on Moreton Island with it when in the past we tented. In South Africa we only ever camped out of a vehicle. Many of the places we went to were not suitable for trailers and we enjoyed the camping experience whether it was from Sodwana in the north of what was Natal down into the Cape or into the Drakensberg. What I liked about camping was the tents that are easy to setup and using a Chescold dometic fridge which was setup and forget. Now we have solar panels and all sorts of nonsense with electrics to worry about. Nostalgia watching your parts of your video!
I am very excited to see the next vehicle build. I personally have 3 different camping options, depending on where I'm going and what I'm doing. Having 3 kids, making 5 of us in total, somewhat limits our options. I have also found that stopping earlier in the day when touring makes a more complicated setup more manageable and less stressful.. When I travel solo for work, it's a basic swag, chair and the old landy :) -I love the simplicity.
Andrew I’m with you on towing, I love travelling/camping out of my vehicle. However this year I’m developing a new pure expedition trailer for the people who love camping and travelling out of there vehicle. I have applied all the points you have mentioned pros and cons that are in line with mine. It’s has everything you need and nothing you don’t ! I hope to show you at a future 4x4 show Andrew, watch this space mate. FTECH OVERLAND AUSTRALIA 🇦🇺 Cheers Ty.
@@4xoverland I just looked on the South Africa Gumtree website and there are some ef/el/au falcons for sale.I always thought they were AUS/NZ only. I was wrong. In the video at 10:55 one passes you coming up the slope, that is what made me look it up.
They certainly did, but were only sold in small numbers. Going back to the 70s though, both Holden and Ford (Australia) utes were hugely popular in SA. The were rebadged as Chevrolet El Camino and Ford Ranchero.
In 1992 I built an offroad trailer. I installed Alko rubber torsion suspension because the company claimed it was indestructible. I drove from Canberra to Cape York without issue but only made it back to Cook Town where I discovered that the right hand axle was collapsing. I won't go into the disgraceful behavior of Alko when I tried to get warranty but describing it as appalling would be to understate the case. My advice is to take Andrew's advice and stay well clear of rubber torsion axles if you are going offroad.
Four Wheel Camper (or similar) flat deck camper? It's funny to hear your experience with torsion axles. I had a surplus 1/4 ton military trailer (CDN M101) that I built for offroad camping etc. It had a solid axle, leaf springs and off the shelf shock absorbers. Nothing exotic in the suspension department. I refurbished it and put in new OEM Napa shocks ($24.00 each). The trailer fully (properly) loaded with all my gear and a 3 person RTT mounted to the lid towed like a dream. On washboard roads with the tires aired down to about 15 PSI it floated along behind my Jeep XJ and tracked beautifully. It was a pleasure to tow actually and I enjoyed every minute of it. I had people commenting that I was foolish to not replace the axle with a torsion setup because they were superior in 'every' way. I begged to differ. I towed our family 17' pop up camper over minor washboard roads, and it wallowed and swayed around like a drunken sailor. Ok, it was not an offroad spec torsion axle, but I was on recently graded roads with only minor washboard and no major pot holes... it was awful. To the point I swore off torsion axles for ANY offroad use. Just my experience, but a tried and true old school leaf spring setup with good shock to dampen the rebound and compression was a pleasure to tow and was easy to fix and maintain. Air bags and shocks would be even better... but that was out of my $$ range. heh Great video! Scary about the water tank in the rear. Why? Who would do that??
6x6 Build next? Toyota or Merc? On the topic of towing if it’s 1 person a swag is perfect. Father/son can work with tents. When it’s wife + 2 kids it’s nearly impossible in the back of a station wagon without towing. Something like a single axle Patriot X1 (3m) is minimalist compared to a triple axle Kedron (26’) caravan.
Having a trailer, whether it is a simple camper trailer or off-road van is almost always going to make some things more difficult but I guess it is a choice of what sort of level of comfort you want. You can get to more places without a trailer and you won't get bogged as often. We had a big tandem van that got out of control behind our old 60 series and I could see the side of the van swinging right out in the wing mirrors. Luckily I got it under control but the van blew a tyre in the process. At the time we were living full time on the road so we were carrying a heap of gear and somehow the van wasn't packed as well as usual. Now we are TRYING to reduce what we take away when we use the camper but oh boy, it is really hard to not take too much stuff. Trouble is, the older I get, the more comfort I want.
I think it really depends on what you want to do. For me with a family a light weight camper trailer works great, but in saying that you definitely need to factor towing into your route etc. However I also wonder if you're scared from an experience with a poorly designed trailer. Would love to see you do a review/trip with something more lightweight and better designed to see if your thoughts are the same. With all the hype on Patriot Campers, I'd love to see you pull an X3 or something like that to see if your view changes.
Well put thoughts about towing a trailer and your personal preference Andrew. In my situation of needing the vehicle for my personal travel when I am not camping (most of the year), I prefer the flexibility of a lightly loaded 4x4 towing a lightly loaded trailer because it will on the whole outperform a fully loaded 4x4 in extreme conditions. One factor that you don't discuss is that there is currently no trailer load-shareing hitches that share the trailer load in all conditions. I have used a conventional WSH and found it woefully inadequate because you are advised to set them up on level ground, yet anything other than level straight ahead the portion of shared load is changed. I believe there is a need to share a fixed (set by the driver at hookup time) portion of the trailer load to be carried between the front and rear axles of the 4x4 - that is constant through creek crossings, around the sharpest corners. Harry Ferguson used the idea of Draft Control in his first tractor, so that when pulling a plow it transformed a portion of the draft as wieght to both the front and rear axle. It would not be rocket science to adapt that concept to a trailer hitch.
if you put on a brake controller one that you can apply the brakes of the caravan independent of the tow vechile a slight application usually a small plastic sliding knob fitted that is part of the controller stops the swaying
Hi, is that particular caravan you used had break you could trigger to stop it to swing? Note: I'm not into towing, I don't need, but I had considered it in the past)
My opinion based on my experience towing a fishing boat for many years is that 80km is maximum speed when towing regardless of type of vehicle.Regards.
Limited to 120 kph in South Africa, towing or not, where few people take any notice of it anyway. I was following the convoy of clients pulling their caravans, and wasn't keeping up!
This series reminds me of the Adventures of Shaun and Graham from 4WD, they have a mate that constantly travels with them with a trailer that he has been testing. Granted, there are about 6 or 8 people with them, all experienced wheelers that can pull anyone , anywhere out of harms way. They do bring that trailer in the middle of nowhere and to some sketchy terrain. Maybe hook up with them Andrew?!?
I can't see myself ever doing that, just for the sake of towing- when I don't want or need to tow. I would be going on their trips and I like to do my own trips. And those guys actually seek out the hardest terrain they can find for the sake of their videos. If I find it, I'll tackle it, but that's not what gives me a thrill.
I can relate to "I don't want to tow" but having an 'of road camper trailer' enables as a couple great benefit in the camping experience. We tend to base camp, staying a night or 2 and exploring the area doing the tracks with all the camping gear back at camp. That said I dread the time when I have to tow a caravan, they scare the $^*% out of me.
Camper trailers are for parks and easy trails IMO...great to establishing base camp and keeping the tow vehicle light and capable to pursue trails surrounding your base camp
i've towed a no5 trailer with a frame & roof top tent all over australia on dirt roads 4wd tracks over dunes beaches water crossings soft sand mud rocks dust and everything you can imagine including doing the old telegraph track on cape york never had a problem.
The appeal of towing for me is two fold and depends on your touring/travel style. 1) it allows you a weekend ready setup with a basically stock towing vehicle (big plus for many), hitch it up and roll out 2) it allows for a base camp where you can leave the gear and explore with said near stock vehicle. For this reason I have a "offroad trailer", BUT thats because it suits my setup. If i was to build a dedicated rig, it would 100% NOT include something that needed to be towed.
Towing? Good points Andrew. We have tried every form of camping. Tent trailers, Tents, Roof Top Tents, Expedition Trailers and after a lot of trial and error we are down to an All Adventures Trailer (home built) towed behind the Tacoma/Camper. The truck camper is comfort when the weather is not great, secure and can be a stand alone rig. It was a deciding factor with my wife. Happy Wife - Happy Life! The trailer is set up for more long term overlanding (fridge/freezer, shower, extra fuel, gen set, awning/enclosure) and when I want I can pack a quad. I like your idea of quick setup and teardown - this I built to do just that. 10 minutes max. And I can lift off the camper if I want the Ute for track running.
If want a boat there are 2 options full exoskeleton roll bar and month the mount the boat on top of the cruiser or ferry it on a boat trailer.. what I think it is a situational thing in regards to towing.. looking at what you are doing andrew you are getting there up in years if you are going to exploring of a specific area I think something designed to be lived in might b e more of a solution as it gives you a FOB (forward operations base) depending on what you are doing to be honest if I was looking into something that was an all-in-1 service option I would consider a extended chassis within a 6x4, 6x6 or 8x4, 8x8-10x6 platform
We travel with 4 kids. No real way around not towing unless your driving something like an iveco daily 4x4 crew cab or bigger. But we tow a camper trailer and not an "offroad caravan". I think if towing offroad you want it to be as light as possible, ours would be around 1000-1200 kgs fully loaded. Id rather not be towing as it can be a bit of an anchor - especially in sand. And you really need to drop some speed on gravel roads as it can take a bit longer to slow for washouts and oversteer with a trailer isnt much fun (learnt that one early)
Best off road trailer by far is the Australian made conquer trailers. Specifically the uev490, it’s a fully enclosed caravan not a canvas fold out one. has coil independent suspension, every thing is made of 3mm or thicker steel or aluminium. There’s no plastic anywhere on it, has everything you need with out being over the top, has a slide out kitchen hot water slide out fridge lights and beds and lots and lots of storage. There’s no plastic cheap latches on doors they are all held in with a half time Allen key bolt that has a retention pin so it’s impossible for them to undo. It’s the landcruiser of the camper trailers. I believe you should do a review on them, all their trailers are amazing I have only had experience with the 490 but all there stuff is practically the same The friends that have the 490 towed it all the way up the Tele track at cape York with no issues at all and it’s still going to this do with no issues but the water heater failing
We travel 'solo', & get well off the beaten track, often requiring low ratio 4wd for extended distances AND we tow a Tvan. To date the Tvan has followed us without problem. It is the best compromise for us. There is one reason I would prefer not to tow - there is no question that at times it has stopped us from exploring unknown tracks. With a single vehicle you always know that you will find somewhere to turn around if you need to, but when towing anything this is not guaranteed. To date we have not been stuck as a result (3 years full time travel) but plenty of times have passed the end of a track we may have explored if not towing. Our remote area camper was built with a roof top tent initially, & we had never intended to tow, but I quickly found the rooftop tent & I were incompatible & so a towed bedroom became necessary. If needing to tow into remote areas via 4wd tracks (as opposed to roads) the Tvan cannot be beaten, but it will always remain a bit less flexible than a vehicle towing nothing.
We did a trip in our disco 3 a few times with our fold up camper, and totally agree. It turns the easiest this into a challenge. You have to start being exact on everything. Simple thing as the 30m ti the barge on the beach was almost impossible with the tyres inflated to road pressure on the trailer. When if your in the car by itself youll be hard done by to make sure everything is perfect to get up most places. It turns a capable vehicle into a vehicle on the limit. And then there is not such thing as just move the tow to the towball if your not perfectly under it. You have no choice when tyres are deflated and your in sand or rocky terrain, then add to it that its a polly hitch makes it even more trouble. Dont get me wrong, not bad on road, great with people,but makes getting around just hard.
From an American living in NZ for many years. Once I was put off by Andrew. But watching more than a few of these videos I respect that he is passionate, experienced, and correct. These things are important and I wish he was on the design teams for (say) Jeep, Land Rover, Toyota, Nissan, etc. If he was, the vehicles would be supremely reliable, simple, less comfortable (which is fine...they are 4wd for goodness sake) and far less expensive.
I absolutely hate towing..it stresses me out so when I eventually get there a few days later than driving without a trailer I have to leave a day earlier because I have to drive so slow...not to mention reversing.... starting to stress just thinking about it....
As far as I can see there is only one very lonely point going for towing independend wether you go off road or on road: increased total pay load. Every point else is saying no, don't tow anything of you don't must pull a boat or horse or whatever has to get transported out of its element. Yet the axle suspension issue can't address an argument since there are all kind of susoensions and axles and rims and breaks and tyres available on trailers that you want.
He did not like it it was to hard to step in and out of it The main problem was he started with the wrong foot what makes all the difference he got tangle up when he was at the floor of the cabin
@@gcg2927 He doesn't like to get in and out 100 times a day... So I bet if it is the Iveco Daily he might do a gas strutted step. It helps to go up and drops down to get out. Otherwise a LC200 picup-caravan conversion?
Great video! You provide plenty of detail to back up your position, but I love that you don't ignore the fact that your (very strong) opinion is also partly just that - your preference. Too many UA-camrs (mostly young people) are always telling us WHAT THE RIGHT WAY TO DO SOMETHING IS. Hmmm... Case of six months experience is only six months experience. Love the perspective your 30+ years in the field brings here! We are backpacking family that recently added overlanding to our list of outdoors activities , so minimalism is our rule. My wife wasn't convinced by my ferocious zeal for minimalism until we finished our first 10 miles at 10k' + altitude and she suddenly realized she WASN"T FURIOUS (any longer!) that I had insisted on just one spare tee shirt (not five) as she had planned :) Every time we pack for a backpacking trip, I find myself bringing less and less while being more and more comfortable both on the trail and in camp. My current dilemma is that my offroad rig is a CJ7, and I have two kids - a tiny micro-trailer with independent suspension has been doodled about on my engineering bench lately to address the new addition (amazing how much space the stuff a 10lb baby requires to keep them happy takes up!!... but your video reinforces that I should mind my ounces and the pounds will follow, and only then will I break out the welder and make something that fits our needs if they still remain.
I agree with your original rational about the actual towing, set-up time however that was a decade ago. Technology has evolved. You simply cannot compare the capabilities and functionality of a 2018/19 off-road caravan with a 2008/09 one. Same with the electronic suite in current 4WDs that control trailer sway etc. I grew up camping/hiking and hunting and am ex military and I have no issues sleeping rough however my wife and kids don't enjoy that. For family holidays a 15' is not onerous to tow or set-up but keeps them happy and lets us all enjoy the outdoors. If I head off by myself I throw a ultralight tent or hammock/tarp in the back of the truck ;-) If you just don't want to take a caravan then don't but it may be interesting to see how you go on a short trip using a top reviewed modern truck/off-road caravan combo vs your past experience.. I also concur for extreme and technical or closely vegetated terrain leave the caravan at home or in a staging area which is always an option.
Trailers and campervans *limit options*, I once travelled through the Mungo National Park, the camp ground outside of the Park was designated for caravans which is why we camped at the Beulah campgrounds within the Park, nice basic facilities etc but Caravans weren't permitted.... broke camp early on day 2 (morning) as a group had pulled up up with a motorhome and a caravan, the tracks are tight and winding in some sections and we didn't want to get stuck behind this lot who had disregarded the posted restrictions 👍
You are right you don’t need to tow. I enjoyed my off road teardrops and love my camper but I have the excuse of I use it all year round in the UK so the shelter justifies it. In a lovely climate like you have it’s just not needed unless you are a family or group and that is the hub of the camp. I would love to give a patriot trailer a hammering off road tho.
I agree I once brought a very expensive off road camper trailer it was fine till I had to unhitch it in rough terrain. The 150 kilogram ball weight made it near impossible to man handle. I had to use my shovel as a skid and my snatch strap to turn it around Regards Mike
Camper trailers are way to heavy these days. Its ridiculous. I have a family of 5 so unless I want to overload the current tow rig a trailer is required. Ours is a camper trailer that's 17 years old, built like a brick outhouse and weighs 750kg tare dry weight and 900kg full loaded with a ball weight of 90kg. Even modern 'lightweight' camper trailers like X1 or Drifta DOT6 start at 940kg and 1150 tare these days.
Like you said, it all depends what you want to do. For most, the wife is the one that needs to be comfortable. Trailers can do that easily, hence the reason I tow. If I was going on my own, wouldn’t have a trailer either.
Having owned a caravan with the probability coming into an area with trees throwing their limbs I would err on the side of caution in anything with a popup roof because if hit by that limb you be dead.. Unless you are building into its capacity of 23 foot with proper wall struts this be the ,minimum size of use if you want a shower and toilet as standard operation
Thanks Andrew for your honest opinion. I had a similar problem with sway here in Oz with a new Jurgens Sungazer 16 ft only weighing 1.5 tonne.. I firstly towed with a Triton MQ which swayed badly. I checked out all the loading issues all done properly. I was told buy a few people that utes are not good for towing. I then sold the Ute and bought a Pajero Sport this was just as bad. Fitted an anti sway hitch which improved thing a little but not much. Tried to contact both Mitsubishi and Jurgens not interested. By the way I never went above 100ks. I traded the Pajero Sport in at great loss for a new Landcruiser 200 at considerable cost. Due to my wife being very nervous every time we towed. We have done a few trips with the Landcruiser with no issues. So my experience is, buy the biggest car and smallest caravan. I also think towing is not an exact science and there are a lot of so called experts out there both at the caravan dealers as well as the car dealers who know bugger all about the physics of towing. Ps I towed with minimal equipment like you and an empty water tank. I still don’t like towing to be honest.
Interesting comments mate. Have you had experience with a properly designed camper trailer such as patriot campers or drifta? I personally own a patriot camper X1GT and it is a pleasure to do so. The trailer is extremely capable and practical. Setup and pack up in under 10 minutes
Heavy axle with good shocks,with canvas tarp with telescoping center poll,acting as duel purpose stove pipe for light woodstove and that is it maybe a battery bank and some LED lights,plenty of room, light wieght,covering heating and shelter in a back pack on wheels,but no wider then the pull vehicle,but that wide,tarp could cover vehicle also, if made to follow close to towing jeep,it doesn't have to have the kitchen sink but they are nice,but I'd like much more heavy axle,and tent pole with some good canvas,maybe a safe box between wheels for security of valuables.
Andrew, cant guess, cant wait to see what this solution is !!! cant agree more with what you said on this subject of towing, some like it some don't..... all depends on what individuals need to accomplish on your journeys... great story mate.... cheers and thanks...
The biggest benefit I see of towing is having a vehicle that is not overloaded. With all the additional gear including water and fuel that's required to go off-grid for a week or more, especially with a modified 4x4, there's often not much room left in the GVM for a lot. Although, you do still need to take into account the weight on the tow ball. A small camper trailer makes a lot of sense to me here, i.e. Cameron campers or patriot's camper trailers.
Going on Solo trips is my biggest reason for not towing as well. I know eventually, I'll get into trouble enough without a trailer. But with a trailer, there are way more restrictions on where I can go. If I were travelling with 2 or more vehicles it would be fine. Though my FJ Cruiser is also not really well setup as a tow vehicle either. The power just isn't there as is!
I agree totally and loved travelling simply with a vehicle, a RTT and the missus. But now it’s the missus and 2 kids (too young for swags), it’s either camper trailer or stay home. Everyone’s situation and needs are different I guess
Ah, we hit the "subscribe" tab at last... Hi Andrew. Have watched much of your content over the years with much fascination, much agreed upon and much learnt and good laughs too. Well we were virtually sold on an Imagine Trailvan and still love it, but the "Rand" never allowed it so we went the "Klipsringer" route and today we truly can say, off-road trailer?.... Maybe NOT! Thanks for great off-road content and ideas! We hall our Klipsringer atop an AmaTrok. I can see your Toyota badge twitching! Smiles!
I've pulled a trailer across the Simpson desert, only a light one though, around 950kg fully loaded. I tow mainly because I'd have a huge GVM issue if I didn't. For a lot of offroad stuff, it isn't a problem towing a trailer, you certainly don't need to be super careful about how you drive with the 6x4 trailer I own. However, when you fail to climb a sand dune and you need to reverse a trailer down a soft, sand track, it can be a huge pain in the bum. If you have another vehicle, it's pretty easy provided you attach a tow rope to keep the trailer straight. Without this though, there are times where you'd have loads of challenges to address. I agree many people tow stuff way to big and heavy for what they actually need. They carry too much crap and they also seem to refuse to lower their tyre pressures, so they then destroy the tracks. Plus, many seem to not want to use 4WD which just boggles the mind, it makes life so much easier when offroad, especially when towing. It'll get to a point where trailers will be banned in many places IMHO, this will, unfortunately, make traveling legally and safely much harder for many people.
I know you don't like campers but I would love to hear your thoughts and or review of something like the Patriot X1 or X2 camper trailer. They would appear to be a much better option than the larger trailers that you reviewed.
No draggin all that mess behind my 4Runmer as well. I don’t do caravans either because planning for others or having them plan for you can be time lost.
AEV Outpost II. If they go into production. No towing, out of the weather comfort when needed, reputation for highly capable well-built vehicles, and reasonably compact for narrow tracks. Amazing packaging.
How about those very small offroad units like X1 from Patriot Campers? I’d love to have one of those very minimal offroad campers, mostly because I usually drive to a place, set up camp, and explore the rest of the area by car... I think for my usage it would be lovely, but not those big caravans.
I understand where Andrew's coming from but I feel the same as you Rodrigo. I had a compact offroad trailer with rooftop tent on top with gas cooker, shower, water tank, extra fuel etc and loved it. Choked up when I sold it. Like you, I prefer to set up camp/trailer with tent deployed and then I'm free to travel around if safe to leave the trailer at camp site. My trailer wasn't that heavy and towed very nicely and had same axle width and wheel size as my Nissan Patrol 4x4. With one spare wheel on my Nissan and one on my trailer, I essentially had 2x spare wheels.
Hi Andrew I'm not sure how Jurgens fixed their axles as they still use the wrong rubber axle for offroad caravans. As you said this is not appropriate for the application.
They replaced the manufacturer and went for a far stronger grade axle, with a different design, made in Germany. But also rubber. As far as I know, the failures stopped. So it must have fixed the problem.
I'll offer this for free so you can rest. No Iveco. I went out to see if it would work for me, and decided it would not. So, no Iveco coming. Keep trying ;-)
I think caravans can be great for certain types of traveling. If you like to go somewhere and set up camp and then do trips from that location to nearby tracks, sights, cities, museums, parks etc. they're perfectly suited in my opinion. You have a nice, comfortable "base" ready to go when you return to camp. However, a large tent with a mattress in it could obviously be used the exact same way, unless you need an insulated "home" because of the region you're traveling in, or if you want an actual bathroom etc. Like Andrew says, they can also be great for a family of four etc. It also allows mom to stay in the camp and relax while the boys go fishing or whatever she might not be interested in. She has a caravan all to herself and can catch up on some reading or whatever she might enjoy. It's perfect for that. The larger off-road caravans don't make a whole lot of sense to me though if you're actually doing heavy off roading, a smaller model with a rooftop tent or pop up tent type design might be better. They often have plenty of space when set up and folded out, and they're a hell of a lot easier to tow through shit along the way. If you're traveling around like Andrew tends to do and you want more luxury and comfort, it just seems like it'd make much more sense to get a 4x4 van in that case though. Caravans are more suited for staying put for a while, then they're fine. If you have to pack up and leave every day and the driving itself is part of the point, and you still want good living space, a bathroom etc, I think a van or truck is just plain better though. In the American overland market, the larger European style trucks probably don't make much sense as the Americans seem to see overlanding as driving around on relatively short tracks with built in "challenges" along the way, the truck might simply be too big to fit those. But if you're doing the kind of overlanding that most of the rest of the world seems to do, size is very rarely an issue, it's not like a Unimog, a MAN truck or whatever is too big to fit in Sahara, Mongolia or whatever after all. There's nothing but space. The only real size related issue for a Germany - Mongolia trip or whatever would be fuel economy but I'm not even sure how much worse the fuel economy of a Euro 6 MAN truck is than that of the larger American 4x4s anyway, they're hardly known for being economical either. If you're driving thousands of kilometers from Europe to South Africa for example, and you want the comfort of a home/caravan, I'd much rather drive a van or truck than tow a caravan that far on shitty roads, off the roads, through sand etc. It can be a Sprinter, an Iveco Daily, a Unimog, a MAN truck, a Mercedes Vario or what have you. I'd prefer all of them over towing a caravan thousands of kilometers through sand, mud, potholes etc. any day of the week.
Maybe prepare so you can sleep in your Troop Carrier and tow a tiny utility trailer where you put all the stuff inside you had to remove from the vehicle.
It was some time ago, but I'm surprised you would head off down the highway at 120k's towing something you didn't load or check yourself. Travelling on Australian road, you see a lot of over weight vehicles, towing and not towing. Might be wrong sometimes but when meeting up with people and discussing weights it becomes obvious. Anyway, for basecamping I prefer to tow. If constantly on the move and travelling over difficult terrain, then not so much.
I would like to watch these same clips that talk about this topic because I accept to buy caravans and I am confused whether I should buy or just buy a single caravan that can accommodate two people. They complained to you about the video
We have some exceptionally well designed and manufactured campers in Australia. I have a simple rear fold and many of my mates have or are getting simular. I used to be the bare minimum, if i forgot it i didn't need it type and still am i just have an awsome swag that comes with a kitchen and storage that frees my vehicle of carried weight. Honestly wish i had one 25yrs earlier. Each to their own and obviously some drawbacks to a trailer but I'm sold on them.
Hi Andrew. I love your commentaries and 5 years ago we were avid roof top bush campers. I had camped and towed (boats etc) all my life, and swore blind that I'd never tow a caravan, and would have applauded every word you say.
But, we got tired of just driving from night stop to night stop, and eventually succumbed to a caravan. Adventure then became about remote destinations, set up for departure became quick and easy, and a simple camp set up is faster than our old roof top. Now we set up and can do day trips to explore anywhere the car can get to, or go on game drives without packing the tent away.
Jurgens started the off road caravan revolution and spawned numerous small manufacturers of caravans designed for off road rather than adapted for off road. Our caravan tows magnificently, hasnt stopped us getting to anywhere and the biggest problem being that I forget about it!
So yes, a compact and robust offroad caravan has its place and it depends upon whether you want to drive from place to place or explore and get a greater appreciation of remote destinations
Excellent, thanks! My wife and I are in our 70’s and we have traveled from Portland Oregon to Ushuaia Argentina and on to Inuvik, North West Territories, all on a BMW1200GS motorcycle. We camped 65% of the time in a 3 man tent. We just bought our first Travel Trailer, about time for a bit of luxury!
Thanks for sharing your experiences with Towing. I can completely see why you prefer not to tow based on your history. From our experience the off-road caravan and camper industry has changed a lot since your Juergen experiences.
I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on a modern day camper trailer with independent suspension and articulating hitch.
Campers from the likes of Patriot, Trackabout, BRS and Lifestyle among others appear to tick the boxes for what your after. Quick, convenient set up and designed for Towing on tough tracks.
At the same time if a kitted our 4x4 is all you need, do what works best for you!
Hit the nail on the head Andrew. I hate being limited because I’m towing. I’d much rather be a bit less comfortable while camping, than a lot less comfortable when driving.
nick denton I totally agree see my comments.
I couldn't agree more, towing a trailer is a stressful bitch that I dread especially when traveling alone. I am looking for a light weight slide in camper for my Ram, nothing lavish, a popup top and a toilet, TV and AC not required.
I just sleep in my tray with a canopy and it's comfortable enough
All valid points Andrew. I had a nice compact offroad trailer with rooftop tent when I lived in Namibia for a few years. I could not justify the trade-off for towing a bigger caravan off road. My trailer had a rooftop tent on it, gas cooker, shower, water tank, extra fuel etc and loved it. I like the option depending on the trip to set up camp/trailer with tent deployed and then I'm free to travel around if safe to leave the trailer at camp site. My Venter Bush Baby trailer with straight leaf spring axle wasn't that heavy and towed very nicely. It had the same axle width and wheel size as my Nissan Patrol 4x4 and with one spare wheel on my Nissan and one on my trailer, I essentially had 2x spare wheels. Depending on the trip you can opt to leave the trailer and put tent on roof of car. I loved the options. Choked up when I sold it. Jurgen's XT trailers aren't bad at all.
Many many videos from 4wd Action show campers being towed in many of Australia's toughest tracks including the Victorian high country and even down gunshot creek. You had mention if this was possible, if you take time to watch these examples I believe you will have the answer to your question.
I have a jayco swan and it's pretty much an Ikea kitchen with beds on wheels. I consider it glamping; it's fun and easy and ideal for camping with kids.
Now I'm putting together my 4x4 camping setup, where it's tents/swags and bare basics. Both styles of camping appeal to me for different reasons.
You said it many times "in my experience". That's enough for me to never consider a camper trailer in an off road trip. I can see many difficulties of my own plus this story added a few issues I didn't think of. Nicely done Andrew.
Well built Camper Trailers (approx. at the R160 000+ mark it seems) have a place in an off road trip. They can be used as a base camp like a tent. There are too many drawbacks like having to find a secure area as the Bush always seems to have creatures or people with long fingers! For what the Channel owner does, I doubt a camper trailer would work for him. As he goes on very remote roads that last saw any form of work when they were created. I agree, each traveler has to use the most appropriate tools for the trips they take.
I always to my Supra conquer trailer at 120km, leafsprings, shock absorbers, packed properly...never had an issue of swaying of any kind. Pack properly, buy the correct trailer or caravan with the right specs.
In the north of Scandinavia, the choise between towing and not towing is two fold.
1. Are you camping or "glamping"
2a. What are your axel pressure
2b. What are your clearance below your vehicle.
I agree on everything you stated about towing. I have camped on the ground all my life with and without tents and cots. My body has taken a toll over the 63 years so I need a little more comfort so now I tow! Now I camp all year and in some of the hardest of weather. My trailer is built for moderate off roading. When I am alone at my age I’ll take the less changeling track. When I am with my buds / mates game on!!!!
There is another reason that is a major one. In South Africa, the smallest trailer starts out at R150,000 for a base version and by the time it is reasonably kitted out, it will be a quarter of a million rand. On the other hand, I can buy a two-person frame tent for R9,000 and with all the accessories including a camp kitchen, side walls to turn the veranda into a front room as well as stretcher, camp cupboard etc, R30,000 will cover everything. My personal preference is not really overlanding but setting up in one spot for a week and using that as the base for daily exploring, sightseeing, 4x4 trails, bird watching and game viewing.
The pickup truck with a cab-over camper is ideal. Been living out of one full time for months now. Love it! Looking forward to what you come up with, Andrew!
Usually when I'm in my rig I go off and explore some. Many times I have been in tight places and was real glad I didn't have to try and get out of there with a trailer attached. If you're sticking to a well planned and mapped route I can see it. But going off into the unknown with a trailer is too much of a liability.
Yup! Followed this plan over the last number of years .. minimal as possible. With me being single the back seats were thrown and I built a bed and storage inside a 2dr Ford Explorer. I'm 74 and climbing up and down out of a roof top tent to pee .. or cramps .. how do you get down to shake off a bad cramp? Hard enough getting out of the SUV. After years of trying to come up with a safe way to heat my mini RV I finally came up with the most simplest and effective heater for my cabin .. a regular old kerosene lantern that burns paraffin. Simple and effective. I do watch all the stuff that Andrew puts out .. and because of it I've been able to build a pretty decent 4wd off road rig that suits my travels perfectly.
Andrew, just watching your comments about towing and the way a trailer can behave when you want to slow down. The solution is to install a Red Arc Brake controller. it works on the play betwwen the initial pressure on the brake pedal and when pressure is actually applied to the brake master cylinder. Result: the brakles on the TOWED trailer are applied first and it will not sway. I brought a 2 tonne tug boat back from Armidale in NSW down the Moonbie Ranges all the way back to Perth -- no worries!. You only need one controller in the tow vehiicle but one hydraulic controller on EACH heavy trailer you plan to tow, so in my case that would be: one for the tug boat trailer and one for the eco caravan. It goes without saying yoiu can only tow one trailer at a time.
Years after you posted this but still valid info. There are times when I thought about towing an offroad caravan but since I travel solo it would be a waste of time and money. Heck, my 97 LC 80 still needs work (head gasket and engine reseal) which I won't be able to do working overseas from the States. Once I return and get the rig sorted out I'm sure it won't be long before I move from sleeping inside the rig to an RTT. So many models to choose from and still not sure which style to go with. The bigger tent type RTT's give more room but not as fast to set up/tear down nor are the streamlined when compared to an aluminum version. Living vicariously through your channel. Thanks.
I tow a off-road caravan & I totally agree with everything that you said.
Me too!
Caravans are great if they're easy to back and do U turns because in Africa you're gonna do a lot of those because an Official tells you to go back or the road you're on is flooded.
I think the combination of a capable troopy which is fitted out mainly for living in during bad weather etc. and doing solo trips, this means more a rudimentary kitchen and more focus on seating, and a small one axle offroad trailer with all the bits and pieces, additional fuel and water capacity, shower and a decent kitchen, would be worth testing. From my point of view , this could tick a lot of boxes and the versatility with this combination would be impressiv. Solo Trip (check), couple (check), couple and kids or friends (check). and with increasing number of passangers the comfort increases but the offroad capability decreases and visa versa. What do you t hink @4xoverland ?
I am going through your old videos. This is a really well balanced presentation. My own opinion is I wouldn’t tow anything off road. The comfort isn’t worth the complexity. If I am out in the bush I am on holidays. I can put up with a bit of discomfort for a few weeks. As long as you have something to sit on, and have reasonably comfortable night’s sleep, that is fine. A decent tent, sleeping bag, and a decent hiking mat (Exped for me) is fine.
I am also going through old videos and understand/like your comment. From a different point of view, my wife and I are now getting a bit long in the tooth and really enjoy towing. For example, last year we spent 19 nights in the Vic high country. We have a 20plus year old Kimberley camper which we would set-up for 2 nights which we pack very lightly (except it carries the fuel we need for such a stay) with for example only 2 x knife,fork, plates etc, no fancy stuff. From there, we would explore with our average, light duel-cab ute which only had us, a few tools, some recovery gear and a packed lunch. We covered almost all of the iconic tracks, where we either assisted or idled around very expensive, modified vehicles which carry all the mod cons. I agree that a bit of discomfort is just part of a great remote experience, and to keep it basic but still tow allows people like me to still walk upright in the morning and to get to places with an old ute which is basically empty. I hope you are getting the opportunity to get out there and I wish you safe travels.
It's not really balanced when one complains about the time to setup something for the first time, and if you're trailer is swaying on the highway simply you loaded it wrong.
We have just recently bought a hard floor camper and at 65 it is a pleasure to have the luxuries. Just spent 10 days on Moreton Island with it when in the past we tented. In South Africa we only ever camped out of a vehicle. Many of the places we went to were not suitable for trailers and we enjoyed the camping experience whether it was from Sodwana in the north of what was Natal down into the Cape or into the Drakensberg. What I liked about camping was the tents that are easy to setup and using a Chescold dometic fridge which was setup and forget. Now we have solar panels and all sorts of nonsense with electrics to worry about. Nostalgia watching your parts of your video!
I am very excited to see the next vehicle build.
I personally have 3 different camping options, depending on where I'm going and what I'm doing.
Having 3 kids, making 5 of us in total, somewhat limits our options.
I have also found that stopping earlier in the day when touring makes a more complicated setup more manageable and less stressful..
When I travel solo for work, it's a basic swag, chair and the old landy :) -I love the simplicity.
I would hv made less kids.... 🤣🤣😂😂😆😆😆
Andrew I’m with you on towing, I love travelling/camping out of my vehicle.
However this year I’m developing a new pure expedition trailer for the people who love camping and travelling out of there vehicle.
I have applied all the points you have mentioned pros and cons that are in line with mine.
It’s has everything you need and nothing you don’t !
I hope to show you at a future 4x4 show Andrew, watch this space mate.
FTECH OVERLAND AUSTRALIA 🇦🇺
Cheers Ty.
10:55 Did they sell 90s Ford Falcon utes in South Africa?
no. don't think so.
@@4xoverland I just looked on the South Africa Gumtree website and there are some ef/el/au falcons for sale.I always thought they were AUS/NZ only. I was wrong.
In the video at 10:55 one passes you coming up the slope, that is what made me look it up.
They certainly did, but were only sold in small numbers. Going back to the 70s though, both Holden and Ford (Australia) utes were hugely popular in SA. The were rebadged as Chevrolet El Camino and Ford Ranchero.
In 1992 I built an offroad trailer. I installed Alko rubber torsion suspension because the company claimed it was indestructible. I drove from Canberra to Cape York without issue but only made it back to Cook Town where I discovered that the right hand axle was collapsing. I won't go into the disgraceful behavior of Alko when I tried to get warranty but describing it as appalling would be to understate the case. My advice is to take Andrew's advice and stay well clear of rubber torsion axles if you are going offroad.
Four Wheel Camper (or similar) flat deck camper?
It's funny to hear your experience with torsion axles. I had a surplus 1/4 ton military trailer (CDN M101) that I built for offroad camping etc. It had a solid axle, leaf springs and off the shelf shock absorbers. Nothing exotic in the suspension department. I refurbished it and put in new OEM Napa shocks ($24.00 each). The trailer fully (properly) loaded with all my gear and a 3 person RTT mounted to the lid towed like a dream. On washboard roads with the tires aired down to about 15 PSI it floated along behind my Jeep XJ and tracked beautifully. It was a pleasure to tow actually and I enjoyed every minute of it.
I had people commenting that I was foolish to not replace the axle with a torsion setup because they were superior in 'every' way. I begged to differ. I towed our family 17' pop up camper over minor washboard roads, and it wallowed and swayed around like a drunken sailor. Ok, it was not an offroad spec torsion axle, but I was on recently graded roads with only minor washboard and no major pot holes... it was awful. To the point I swore off torsion axles for ANY offroad use.
Just my experience, but a tried and true old school leaf spring setup with good shock to dampen the rebound and compression was a pleasure to tow and was easy to fix and maintain. Air bags and shocks would be even better... but that was out of my $$ range. heh
Great video! Scary about the water tank in the rear. Why? Who would do that??
This man is under rated AF, been watching for ages but never subscribed, fixed that today 👏
Wise words. Couldn’t agree more.
There is a big difference between the ‘doing’ of the thing and the ‘dream’ of the doing of the thing.
You can reverse with a trailer with practice if the car is stuck however you'll either have to unhitch or winch the whole lot backwards
6x6 Build next? Toyota or Merc?
On the topic of towing if it’s 1 person a swag is perfect. Father/son can work with tents. When it’s wife + 2 kids it’s nearly impossible in the back of a station wagon without towing. Something like a single axle Patriot X1 (3m) is minimalist compared to a triple axle Kedron (26’) caravan.
I think towing an off road caravan used as a base camp for long term expedition, is probably best way to utilise one
Yes but lightweight expedition
Having a trailer, whether it is a simple camper trailer or off-road van is almost always going to make some things more difficult but I guess it is a choice of what sort of level of comfort you want. You can get to more places without a trailer and you won't get bogged as often. We had a big tandem van that got out of control behind our old 60 series and I could see the side of the van swinging right out in the wing mirrors. Luckily I got it under control but the van blew a tyre in the process. At the time we were living full time on the road so we were carrying a heap of gear and somehow the van wasn't packed as well as usual. Now we are TRYING to reduce what we take away when we use the camper but oh boy, it is really hard to not take too much stuff. Trouble is, the older I get, the more comfort I want.
I think it really depends on what you want to do. For me with a family a light weight camper trailer works great, but in saying that you definitely need to factor towing into your route etc. However I also wonder if you're scared from an experience with a poorly designed trailer. Would love to see you do a review/trip with something more lightweight and better designed to see if your thoughts are the same. With all the hype on Patriot Campers, I'd love to see you pull an X3 or something like that to see if your view changes.
Well put thoughts about towing a trailer and your personal preference Andrew.
In my situation of needing the vehicle for my personal travel when I am not camping (most of the year), I prefer the flexibility of a lightly loaded 4x4 towing a lightly loaded trailer because it will on the whole outperform a fully loaded 4x4 in extreme conditions.
One factor that you don't discuss is that there is currently no trailer load-shareing hitches that share the trailer load in all conditions.
I have used a conventional WSH and found it woefully inadequate because you are advised to set them up on level ground, yet anything other than level straight ahead the portion of shared load is changed.
I believe there is a need to share a fixed (set by the driver at hookup time) portion of the trailer load to be carried between the front and rear axles of the 4x4 - that is constant through creek crossings, around the sharpest corners. Harry Ferguson used the idea of Draft Control in his first tractor, so that when pulling a plow it transformed a portion of the draft as wieght to both the front and rear axle. It would not be rocket science to adapt that concept to a trailer hitch.
It does show how the one journal has no integrity. Garbage publication.
if you put on a brake controller one that you can apply the brakes of the caravan independent of the tow vechile a slight application usually a small plastic sliding knob fitted that is part of the controller stops the swaying
Hi, is that particular caravan you used had break you could trigger to stop it to swing?
Note: I'm not into towing, I don't need, but I had considered it in the past)
Is it a Tacoma, Double cab, with pop-top camper in place of truck bed?
My opinion based on my experience towing a fishing boat for many years is that 80km is maximum speed when towing regardless of type of vehicle.Regards.
Limited to 120 kph in South Africa, towing or not, where few people take any notice of it anyway. I was following the convoy of clients pulling their caravans, and wasn't keeping up!
Patriot X1H? A lot smaller lighter and very nimble in extreme off-road?
Good choice...Also, Nuthouse Industries builds off-road trailers that should be able to go almost anywhere...Just depends on what you want to do.
This series reminds me of the Adventures of Shaun and Graham from 4WD, they have a mate that constantly travels with them with a trailer that he has been testing. Granted, there are about 6 or 8 people with them, all experienced wheelers that can pull anyone , anywhere out of harms way. They do bring that trailer in the middle of nowhere and to some sketchy terrain. Maybe hook up with them Andrew?!?
I can't see myself ever doing that, just for the sake of towing- when I don't want or need to tow. I would be going on their trips and I like to do my own trips. And those guys actually seek out the hardest terrain they can find for the sake of their videos. If I find it, I'll tackle it, but that's not what gives me a thrill.
I can relate to "I don't want to tow" but having an 'of road camper trailer' enables as a couple great benefit in the camping experience. We tend to base camp, staying a night or 2 and exploring the area doing the tracks with all the camping gear back at camp. That said I dread the time when I have to tow a caravan, they scare the $^*% out of me.
Camper trailers are for parks and easy trails IMO...great to establishing base camp and keeping the tow vehicle light and capable to pursue trails surrounding your base camp
i've towed a no5 trailer with a frame & roof top tent all over australia on dirt roads 4wd tracks over dunes beaches water crossings soft sand mud rocks dust and everything you can imagine including doing the old telegraph track on cape york never had a problem.
The appeal of towing for me is two fold and depends on your touring/travel style. 1) it allows you a weekend ready setup with a basically stock towing vehicle (big plus for many), hitch it up and roll out 2) it allows for a base camp where you can leave the gear and explore with said near stock vehicle. For this reason I have a "offroad trailer", BUT thats because it suits my setup. If i was to build a dedicated rig, it would 100% NOT include something that needed to be towed.
Towing? Good points Andrew. We have tried every form of camping. Tent trailers, Tents, Roof Top Tents, Expedition Trailers and after a lot of trial and error we are down to an All Adventures Trailer (home built) towed behind the Tacoma/Camper. The truck camper is comfort when the weather is not great, secure and can be a stand alone rig. It was a deciding factor with my wife. Happy Wife - Happy Life! The trailer is set up for more long term overlanding (fridge/freezer, shower, extra fuel, gen set, awning/enclosure) and when I want I can pack a quad. I like your idea of quick setup and teardown - this I built to do just that. 10 minutes max. And I can lift off the camper if I want the Ute for track running.
If want a boat there are 2 options
full exoskeleton roll bar and month the mount the boat on top of the cruiser or ferry it on a boat trailer..
what I think it is a situational thing in regards to towing..
looking at what you are doing andrew you are getting there up in years if you are going to exploring of a specific area I think something designed to be lived in might b e more of a solution as it gives you a FOB (forward operations base) depending on what you are doing
to be honest if I was looking into something that was an all-in-1 service option I would consider a extended chassis within a 6x4, 6x6 or 8x4, 8x8-10x6 platform
We travel with 4 kids. No real way around not towing unless your driving something like an iveco daily 4x4 crew cab or bigger. But we tow a camper trailer and not an "offroad caravan". I think if towing offroad you want it to be as light as possible, ours would be around 1000-1200 kgs fully loaded. Id rather not be towing as it can be a bit of an anchor - especially in sand. And you really need to drop some speed on gravel roads as it can take a bit longer to slow for washouts and oversteer with a trailer isnt much fun (learnt that one early)
Best off road trailer by far is the Australian made conquer trailers. Specifically the uev490, it’s a fully enclosed caravan not a canvas fold out one. has coil independent suspension, every thing is made of 3mm or thicker steel or aluminium. There’s no plastic anywhere on it, has everything you need with out being over the top, has a slide out kitchen hot water slide out fridge lights and beds and lots and lots of storage. There’s no plastic cheap latches on doors they are all held in with a half time Allen key bolt that has a retention pin so it’s impossible for them to undo. It’s the landcruiser of the camper trailers. I believe you should do a review on them, all their trailers are amazing I have only had experience with the 490 but all there stuff is practically the same
The friends that have the 490 towed it all the way up the Tele track at cape York with no issues at all and it’s still going to this do with no issues but the water heater failing
We travel 'solo', & get well off the beaten track, often requiring low ratio 4wd for extended distances AND we tow a Tvan. To date the Tvan has followed us without problem. It is the best compromise for us. There is one reason I would prefer not to tow - there is no question that at times it has stopped us from exploring unknown tracks. With a single vehicle you always know that you will find somewhere to turn around if you need to, but when towing anything this is not guaranteed. To date we have not been stuck as a result (3 years full time travel) but plenty of times have passed the end of a track we may have explored if not towing. Our remote area camper was built with a roof top tent initially, & we had never intended to tow, but I quickly found the rooftop tent & I were incompatible & so a towed bedroom became necessary. If needing to tow into remote areas via 4wd tracks (as opposed to roads) the Tvan cannot be beaten, but it will always remain a bit less flexible than a vehicle towing nothing.
Thanks for your insight on the matter, I was one of them who asked you why you didn't like caravans
We did a trip in our disco 3 a few times with our fold up camper, and totally agree.
It turns the easiest this into a challenge. You have to start being exact on everything. Simple thing as the 30m ti the barge on the beach was almost impossible with the tyres inflated to road pressure on the trailer. When if your in the car by itself youll be hard done by to make sure everything is perfect to get up most places.
It turns a capable vehicle into a vehicle on the limit.
And then there is not such thing as just move the tow to the towball if your not perfectly under it. You have no choice when tyres are deflated and your in sand or rocky terrain, then add to it that its a polly hitch makes it even more trouble.
Dont get me wrong, not bad on road, great with people,but makes getting around just hard.
From an American living in NZ for many years. Once I was put off by Andrew. But watching more than a few of these videos I respect that he is passionate, experienced, and correct. These things are important and I wish he was on the design teams for (say) Jeep, Land Rover, Toyota, Nissan, etc. If he was, the vehicles would be supremely reliable, simple, less comfortable (which is fine...they are 4wd for goodness sake) and far less expensive.
Didnt pre load the tongue weight enough. Needs trailer brakes. Apply brakes on just trailer, if you get a sway.
It was unfortunate his rookie error was projected as a fault on the trailer.
I absolutely hate towing..it stresses me out so when I eventually get there a few days later than driving without a trailer I have to leave a day earlier because I have to drive so slow...not to mention reversing.... starting to stress just thinking about it....
As far as I can see there is only one very lonely point going for towing independend wether you go off road or on road: increased total pay load.
Every point else is saying no, don't tow anything of you don't must pull a boat or horse or whatever has to get transported out of its element.
Yet the axle suspension issue can't address an argument since there are all kind of susoensions and axles and rims and breaks and tyres available on trailers that you want.
Andrew, is it the iveco daily?
He did not like it it was to hard to step in and out of it The main problem was he started with the wrong foot what makes all the difference he got tangle up when he was at the floor of the cabin
Have a look at that clip again when he steps into it
He will add a ladder
@@gcg2927 He doesn't like to get in and out 100 times a day... So I bet if it is the Iveco Daily he might do a gas strutted step. It helps to go up and drops down to get out. Otherwise a LC200 picup-caravan conversion?
lol
Agree.
Hzj75, rooftop tent was very comfortable crossing Africa. No vehicle limitations, go where you want / need to go.
Great video! You provide plenty of detail to back up your position, but I love that you don't ignore the fact that your (very strong) opinion is also partly just that - your preference. Too many UA-camrs (mostly young people) are always telling us WHAT THE RIGHT WAY TO DO SOMETHING IS. Hmmm... Case of six months experience is only six months experience. Love the perspective your 30+ years in the field brings here!
We are backpacking family that recently added overlanding to our list of outdoors activities , so minimalism is our rule. My wife wasn't convinced by my ferocious zeal for minimalism until we finished our first 10 miles at 10k' + altitude and she suddenly realized she WASN"T FURIOUS (any longer!) that I had insisted on just one spare tee shirt (not five) as she had planned :) Every time we pack for a backpacking trip, I find myself bringing less and less while being more and more comfortable both on the trail and in camp. My current dilemma is that my offroad rig is a CJ7, and I have two kids - a tiny micro-trailer with independent suspension has been doodled about on my engineering bench lately to address the new addition (amazing how much space the stuff a 10lb baby requires to keep them happy takes up!!... but your video reinforces that I should mind my ounces and the pounds will follow, and only then will I break out the welder and make something that fits our needs if they still remain.
Good video. What are the options if I don’t tow and don’t live in the back of the vehicle?
I agree with your original rational about the actual towing, set-up time however that was a decade ago. Technology has evolved. You simply cannot compare the capabilities and functionality of a 2018/19 off-road caravan with a 2008/09 one. Same with the electronic suite in current 4WDs that control trailer sway etc. I grew up camping/hiking and hunting and am ex military and I have no issues sleeping rough however my wife and kids don't enjoy that. For family holidays a 15' is not onerous to tow or set-up but keeps them happy and lets us all enjoy the outdoors. If I head off by myself I throw a ultralight tent or hammock/tarp in the back of the truck ;-)
If you just don't want to take a caravan then don't but it may be interesting to see how you go on a short trip using a top reviewed modern truck/off-road caravan combo vs your past experience..
I also concur for extreme and technical or closely vegetated terrain leave the caravan at home or in a staging area which is always an option.
Trailers and campervans *limit options*, I once travelled through the Mungo National Park, the camp ground outside of the Park was designated for caravans which is why we camped at the Beulah campgrounds within the Park, nice basic facilities etc but Caravans weren't permitted.... broke camp early on day 2 (morning) as a group had pulled up up with a motorhome and a caravan, the tracks are tight and winding in some sections and we didn't want to get stuck behind this lot who had disregarded the posted restrictions 👍
You are right you don’t need to tow. I enjoyed my off road teardrops and love my camper but I have the excuse of I use it all year round in the UK so the shelter justifies it. In a lovely climate like you have it’s just not needed unless you are a family or group and that is the hub of the camp. I would love to give a patriot trailer a hammering off road tho.
Can you give us your thoughts on Timbren axles? They seem to be popular on overlanding trailers now. Thanks!!
I agree I once brought a very expensive off road camper trailer it was fine till I had to unhitch it in rough terrain.
The 150 kilogram ball weight made it near impossible to man handle.
I had to use my shovel as a skid and my snatch strap to turn it around
Regards Mike
Camper trailers are way to heavy these days. Its ridiculous. I have a family of 5 so unless I want to overload the current tow rig a trailer is required. Ours is a camper trailer that's 17 years old, built like a brick outhouse and weighs 750kg tare dry weight and 900kg full loaded with a ball weight of 90kg. Even modern 'lightweight' camper trailers like X1 or Drifta DOT6 start at 940kg and 1150 tare these days.
Like you said, it all depends what you want to do. For most, the wife is the one that needs to be comfortable. Trailers can do that easily, hence the reason I tow. If I was going on my own, wouldn’t have a trailer either.
Absolutely. Happy wife happy life!
swaying is caused by not enough weight on the tow bar, simply move some weight forward will stop it
Having owned a caravan with the probability coming into an area with trees throwing their limbs I would err on the side of caution in anything with a popup roof because if hit by that limb you be dead..
Unless you are building into its capacity of 23 foot with proper wall struts
this be the ,minimum size of use if you want a shower and toilet as standard operation
the only one id consider is the patriot campers X1H allows you to get through tight tracks also a quick and easy setup
I have had THREE NZ-made Trojan torsion axles fail on both wheels at
Thanks Andrew for your honest opinion. I had a similar problem with sway here in Oz with a new Jurgens Sungazer 16 ft only weighing 1.5 tonne.. I firstly towed with a Triton MQ which swayed badly. I checked out all the loading issues all done properly. I was told buy a few people that utes are not good for towing. I then sold the Ute and bought a Pajero Sport this was just as bad. Fitted an anti sway hitch which improved thing a little but not much. Tried to contact both Mitsubishi and Jurgens not interested. By the way I never went above 100ks.
I traded the Pajero Sport in at great loss for a new Landcruiser 200 at considerable cost. Due to my wife being very nervous every time we towed. We have done a few trips with the Landcruiser with no issues. So my experience is, buy the biggest car and smallest caravan. I also think towing is not an exact science and there are a lot of so called experts out there both at the caravan dealers as well as the car dealers who know bugger all about the physics of towing. Ps I towed with minimal equipment like you and an empty water tank.
I still don’t like towing to be honest.
I had a lot of the same problems with traditional trailer campers bought a patriot camper a lot of those problems went away
Interesting comments mate. Have you had experience with a properly designed camper trailer such as patriot campers or drifta? I personally own a patriot camper X1GT and it is a pleasure to do so. The trailer is extremely capable and practical. Setup and pack up in under 10 minutes
Absolutely love story time! You are in a league of your own Andrew. Great delivery!!
Thoughts on a light truck based camper such as by Earthcrusier, All Terrain Warriors etc? Or an older short wheel based custom built solution?
Heavy axle with good shocks,with canvas tarp with telescoping center poll,acting as duel purpose stove pipe for light woodstove and that is it maybe a battery bank and some LED lights,plenty of room, light wieght,covering heating and shelter in a back pack on wheels,but no wider then the pull vehicle,but that wide,tarp could cover vehicle also, if made to follow close to towing jeep,it doesn't have to have the kitchen sink but they are nice,but I'd like much more heavy axle,and tent pole with some good canvas,maybe a safe box between wheels for security of valuables.
Andrew, cant guess, cant wait to see what this solution is !!! cant agree more
with what you said on this subject of towing, some like it some don't.....
all depends on what individuals need to accomplish on your journeys...
great story mate.... cheers and thanks...
The biggest benefit I see of towing is having a vehicle that is not overloaded. With all the additional gear including water and fuel that's required to go off-grid for a week or more, especially with a modified 4x4, there's often not much room left in the GVM for a lot. Although, you do still need to take into account the weight on the tow ball. A small camper trailer makes a lot of sense to me here, i.e. Cameron campers or patriot's camper trailers.
Furthermore, the biggest problem with towing a camper or caravan is you can't tow a boat!
Going on Solo trips is my biggest reason for not towing as well. I know eventually, I'll get into trouble enough without a trailer. But with a trailer, there are way more restrictions on where I can go. If I were travelling with 2 or more vehicles it would be fine. Though my FJ Cruiser is also not really well setup as a tow vehicle either. The power just isn't there as is!
So is your troopy the compromise between comfort and towing
I agree totally and loved travelling simply with a vehicle, a RTT and the missus. But now it’s the missus and 2 kids (too young for swags), it’s either camper trailer or stay home. Everyone’s situation and needs are different I guess
Ah, we hit the "subscribe" tab at last... Hi Andrew. Have watched much of your content over the years with much fascination, much agreed upon and much learnt and good laughs too. Well we were virtually sold on an Imagine Trailvan and still love it, but the "Rand" never allowed it so we went the "Klipsringer" route and today we truly can say, off-road trailer?.... Maybe NOT! Thanks for great off-road content and ideas! We hall our Klipsringer atop an AmaTrok. I can see your Toyota badge twitching! Smiles!
I've pulled a trailer across the Simpson desert, only a light one though, around 950kg fully loaded. I tow mainly because I'd have a huge GVM issue if I didn't.
For a lot of offroad stuff, it isn't a problem towing a trailer, you certainly don't need to be super careful about how you drive with the 6x4 trailer I own. However, when you fail to climb a sand dune and you need to reverse a trailer down a soft, sand track, it can be a huge pain in the bum.
If you have another vehicle, it's pretty easy provided you attach a tow rope to keep the trailer straight. Without this though, there are times where you'd have loads of challenges to address.
I agree many people tow stuff way to big and heavy for what they actually need. They carry too much crap and they also seem to refuse to lower their tyre pressures, so they then destroy the tracks. Plus, many seem to not want to use 4WD which just boggles the mind, it makes life so much easier when offroad, especially when towing. It'll get to a point where trailers will be banned in many places IMHO, this will, unfortunately, make traveling legally and safely much harder for many people.
I know you don't like campers but I would love to hear your thoughts and or review of something like the Patriot X1 or X2 camper trailer. They would appear to be a much better option than the larger trailers that you reviewed.
No draggin all that mess behind my 4Runmer as well. I don’t do caravans either because planning for others or having them plan for you can be time lost.
AEV Outpost II. If they go into production. No towing, out of the weather comfort when needed, reputation for highly capable well-built vehicles, and reasonably compact for narrow tracks. Amazing packaging.
What about the 4wd pop up bed mounted campers? How do you feel about them?
How about those very small offroad units like X1 from Patriot Campers? I’d love to have one of those very minimal offroad campers, mostly because I usually drive to a place, set up camp, and explore the rest of the area by car... I think for my usage it would be lovely, but not those big caravans.
I understand where Andrew's coming from but I feel the same as you Rodrigo. I had a compact offroad trailer with rooftop tent on top with gas cooker, shower, water tank, extra fuel etc and loved it. Choked up when I sold it. Like you, I prefer to set up camp/trailer with tent deployed and then I'm free to travel around if safe to leave the trailer at camp site. My trailer wasn't that heavy and towed very nicely and had same axle width and wheel size as my Nissan Patrol 4x4. With one spare wheel on my Nissan and one on my trailer, I essentially had 2x spare wheels.
South Africa has great off road caravan brands. Try Bush lapa, Infanta and Conqueror. The Bush lapa is an excellent caravan.
Hi Andrew I'm not sure how Jurgens fixed their axles as they still use the wrong rubber axle for offroad caravans. As you said this is not appropriate for the application.
They replaced the manufacturer and went for a far stronger grade axle, with a different design, made in Germany. But also rubber. As far as I know, the failures stopped. So it must have fixed the problem.
Thanks. Good information. IVECO coming?
I'll offer this for free so you can rest. No Iveco. I went out to see if it would work for me, and decided it would not. So, no Iveco coming. Keep trying ;-)
4xoverland Sportsmobile! At least that’s what I sure want.
I think caravans can be great for certain types of traveling. If you like to go somewhere and set up camp and then do trips from that location to nearby tracks, sights, cities, museums, parks etc. they're perfectly suited in my opinion. You have a nice, comfortable "base" ready to go when you return to camp.
However, a large tent with a mattress in it could obviously be used the exact same way, unless you need an insulated "home" because of the region you're traveling in, or if you want an actual bathroom etc. Like Andrew says, they can also be great for a family of four etc. It also allows mom to stay in the camp and relax while the boys go fishing or whatever she might not be interested in. She has a caravan all to herself and can catch up on some reading or whatever she might enjoy. It's perfect for that.
The larger off-road caravans don't make a whole lot of sense to me though if you're actually doing heavy off roading, a smaller model with a rooftop tent or pop up tent type design might be better. They often have plenty of space when set up and folded out, and they're a hell of a lot easier to tow through shit along the way.
If you're traveling around like Andrew tends to do and you want more luxury and comfort, it just seems like it'd make much more sense to get a 4x4 van in that case though. Caravans are more suited for staying put for a while, then they're fine. If you have to pack up and leave every day and the driving itself is part of the point, and you still want good living space, a bathroom etc, I think a van or truck is just plain better though.
In the American overland market, the larger European style trucks probably don't make much sense as the Americans seem to see overlanding as driving around on relatively short tracks with built in "challenges" along the way, the truck might simply be too big to fit those. But if you're doing the kind of overlanding that most of the rest of the world seems to do, size is very rarely an issue, it's not like a Unimog, a MAN truck or whatever is too big to fit in Sahara, Mongolia or whatever after all. There's nothing but space. The only real size related issue for a Germany - Mongolia trip or whatever would be fuel economy but I'm not even sure how much worse the fuel economy of a Euro 6 MAN truck is than that of the larger American 4x4s anyway, they're hardly known for being economical either.
If you're driving thousands of kilometers from Europe to South Africa for example, and you want the comfort of a home/caravan, I'd much rather drive a van or truck than tow a caravan that far on shitty roads, off the roads, through sand etc. It can be a Sprinter, an Iveco Daily, a Unimog, a MAN truck, a Mercedes Vario or what have you. I'd prefer all of them over towing a caravan thousands of kilometers through sand, mud, potholes etc. any day of the week.
Maybe prepare so you can sleep in your Troop Carrier and tow a tiny utility trailer where you put all the stuff inside you had to remove from the vehicle.
It was some time ago, but I'm surprised you would head off down the highway at 120k's towing something you didn't load or check yourself. Travelling on Australian road, you see a lot of over weight vehicles, towing and not towing. Might be wrong sometimes but when meeting up with people and discussing weights it becomes obvious. Anyway, for basecamping I prefer to tow. If constantly on the move and travelling over difficult terrain, then not so much.
Hi Andrew - the trailer is too big, I am developing a camper trailer that has its wheels driven when needed, electrically at this stage
Check out the land rover powered trailers to see why this is not as straight forward as it seems.
I would like to watch these same clips that talk about this topic because I accept to buy caravans and I am confused whether I should buy or just buy a single caravan that can accommodate two people. They complained to you about the video
I have been hoping you build an Iveco daily 4x4. I find the platform pretty desirable and with your experience, I'm sure if would be amazing.
Daily is too big for me. I tried 'bigger' with the Dream Tourer, and didn't like it.
Hi I agree with you , you rise all goosd point , but did you saw what they do with the trailer in off road in Austraila?
We have some exceptionally well designed and manufactured campers in Australia. I have a simple rear fold and many of my mates have or are getting simular.
I used to be the bare minimum, if i forgot it i didn't need it type and still am i just have an awsome swag that comes with a kitchen and storage that frees my vehicle of carried weight. Honestly wish i had one 25yrs earlier.
Each to their own and obviously some drawbacks to a trailer but I'm sold on them.
Trailers or no trailers, honesty is the best policy. If you find fault with anything do as you have always done and report about it.
Not a fan either, however the small patriot camper X2 trailer is tempting almost a 1/3 in size to what you we’re towing..
But takes 2hrs to set up...
Lolo Uro naaah!
@@lolouro2266 2hrs to setup🤣LOL
Clarence try a Australian off-road 10 mins and the second beers been popped
Great video! A direct no-nonsense assessment of the disadvantages of inferior orsion suspension and the difficulties that towing off-road presents.