Rob Reacts to... Who Owns The AFL Clubs?
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
- So I am holding no judgement and I am simply watching this video to learn more about how the Aussies run their top league, the AFL. It's interesting to find out who owns the AFL clubs!
Original Video: • Who Owns The AFL Clubs?
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I teach at a regional WA high school, and the money put back into the sport by the WAFL is easy to see - schools can receive money for developing football teams, for buying equipment etc., and until last year we were having 2-3 Eagles members flying up to our school a couple of times per term to do coaching sessions with our students. Even living 1600km away from Perth, we'd see Nic Nat at school quite often, which meant a lot for the footy boys at the school.
Proud Geelong Cats member. Every year the club sends out surveys about what we think, what can be done better. After supporting the women's team at the VFLW level for the first 2 years, the club decided to weave the names of the few hundred "pioneer supporters" into the jumper worn by the girls in their first senior AFLW match (we won it!) which was pretty special and a surprise thankyou, and seeing fans at games wearing those limited edition jumpers is a buzz. Then there are the days after winning the grand final when the cup tours so members can have their photo holding the cup. Another club might travel to the schools in their traditional supporter base suburbs to let the kids there have their photos take with the cup (which is part of the drive to get more paid-up members, of course!). That drive for membership also means the club works hard to connect with the local community - going to schools and teaching kids how to play football is what gets new members, or at least more money because the kids buy jumpers or scarves or badges.
I'm a supporter of the West Coast Eagles and honestly I have no problem not being member owned. We've been very well run, considering we are one of the most successful clubs since our establishment. I also like how the WA commission uses the profits from the WA clubs to reinvest into grassroot leagues and the state league.
And yes, I love being a Richmond member. Even during COVID when I got zero value from my membership, I still paid my dues. This is true generally, most members of AFL clubs after COVID hit did not ask for a refund, even though refunds were available in most cases.
I think I heard that less than 5% of members got refunds
Paid mine and paid one forward for another member who might have been stood down with lockdown. I know there were a shit tonne of others who dud the same.
And as a Queensland Richmond member I got treated to seeing the boys play about 10 games in the space of 3 or 4 months! Such an unexpected surprise. The club was generous too. I think I was getting more free games than I was strictly supposed to on my membership tier but they seemed happy to reward the loyalty of us interstate members who normally subsist on one or 2 games a year and even travel down semi regularly to make it to games at the MCG
I am a Geelong member, and proudly say "we" when I talk about the team.
Each club offers different memberships.
For example I am an Regional/interstate member, which gives me access to 5 home games in Victoria or a to away game in my state. This membership is cheaper than a full membership.
There is also a Lounge Cat membership that doesn't give game access and cost less.
Last year the Club provided refunds on memberships, due to supporters not being allow to attend games. I choose not to, as I hoped my membership help ensure that more people who work for the club keep their jobs.
Love your opinions mate keep playing devils advocate because it only encourages practical and thoughtful conversation
Thanks Jett, I know lots don't like me talking anything negative about their sacred game, but if it opens up conversation then surely it can only be a good thing.
@@RobReacts1 Hey Rob, the squeaky wheels make the most noise. I think those who have no issues with your perspective have no reason to comment. So like those narky fans shouting over the fence at the ref, I’d just ignore them and don’t question yourself for a second mate.
@@andrewj7432 appreciate the comment. And it is exactly the same as refereeing isn't it! People like to share their disagreement but less people share their agreement. However, UA-cam thinks all the people who disagree and comment on my videos like my videos so it's good for me 🤣
@@RobReacts1 Yeah, a bit like Cunningham’s Law “The best way to get the right answer on the Internet is not to ask a question, but to post the wrong answer”. Kind of like clickbait but better!! And no your videos aren’t clickbait, just a fresh perspective from an genuinely interested person. And a nice bloke, for a Swans supporter.😉
@@andrewj7432 I'm really excited because I'm having a chat with Dale Kicketts son tomorrow (and buddy's cousin). Hopefully I will get more of an indigenous perspective!
I’ve been a member of Melbourne since 1985, when I was 14. I think being a member- driven club does make us a part of the club. In the time I’ve been a member I’ve had varying levels of involvement at Melbourne including volunteering roles, which membership based clubs like Melbourne do welcome. I’ve been a Redlegs member, I’ve been on the cheer squad, I’m currently a committee member of the Ruby Demons and therefore liaise with committees of other clubs’ LGBTI groups, and I’m also a foundation member of the AFLW team. I’m impressed by our new President, who has spoken about inclusivity yin the club and really driving home the message of it being a club for the members. Yes, I absolutely do think the fact the clubs are member based, particularly the Victorian clubs, do give you that but if pride and connectedness to the club. Every year I’m sent a copy of the financial annual report, and I do feel the club is open it’s members, through regularly held member forums, access to players, coaches, board members and staff. At 50,000 members, we’re regarded as a smaller club, but it is now financially sound, after a pretty rough period about 10-15 years ago when it was suffering big losses and debts. Melbourne is one of only 6 clubs this year not to need additional financial support from the AFL in 2021.
The top draft picks don't always mean they are good players and vide versa. James Hurd was a fairly low draft pick and 79 but went on to become a true champion winning a Brownlow medal in his career at Essendon.
An issue with very successful clubs like West Coast or Collingwood is, they are very profitable, but are not for profit. The AFL, wary of hugely successful clubs financially dominating the competition, have limited the amount of money clubs can spend on football, outside the salary cap, the 'soft' cap. So, at a certain point, making more money would be pointless, you cannot spend it on football, you dont have shareholders to distribute it to. Being owned by the WAFC lets profits generated by West Coast and Fremantle, which tend to be large, to be distributed to grass roots football around WA. Most footy supporters in WA are fine with this, more than fine, its a great outcome for WA.
Oh Poo Collingwood (East coast ) hates the Eagles (west coast) for being successful and rich! Sour grapes from Melbourne!
@Christopher Whitney No??
I think wafl and ammo clubs would tell you differently
@@nyrkyg2213 Neither the Eagles nor the AFL have any responsibility for the Ammos. They are stand alone clubs. The, our clubrooms suck, why dont the AFL or WAFC build us another one? attitude is weird. Played ammos for years, we never asked for or expected a cent. Had our own arrangements with local council, built our own clubrooms, what was the AFL supposed to be doing for us?
I am proud to be one of more than 70,000 - 80,000 one eyed Collingwood members with more than 720,000 supporters of all the different sporting teams and community based charities and support groups that come under the Collingwood banner. Besides the AFL team and the VFL team, we have the AFLW (women league), the VFLW, we have the Collingwood Magpies Netball team that play in the Suncorp Super Netball League, the Wheelchair Football team. Community support via the Magpies Nest Housing Project for homeless and disadvantaged people; Our case workers provide dedicated wrap-around support including access to mental health, drug and alcohol addiction and legal services, along with accommodation and employment/training assistance.The Magpie Nest cafe, providing thousands of take away meals and health services to people who are homeless and disadvantaged. The Magpies Nest has support from Salvation Army, Corporations, Council and State Government. I have just mentioned major projects and support bases. GoPies
Geoffrey Edelsten. The guy who bought the Sydney Swans passed away this week. You should read up on his life. It was quite interesting to say the least.
There were allegations of clubs 'tanking' (deliberately losing) 10-15 years ago but they got big fines and the AFL removed the CEO and installed their own pick.
It wasn't the players not trying to win but the team selection being manipulated and players moved to unfamiliar positions by coaches at the direction of management.
When the VFL (AFL now) began in 1897 it was 8 teams creating their own competition as a breakaway from the VFA - kind of like the attempted European Super League proposed earlier this year.
This became the best and richest league in the country and players were regularly recruited from other leagues to make them weaker and the VFL stronger.
Eventually the VFL wanted to grow so created licences for the teams they wanted to admit to the league.
The original teams were and still are independant of the league (except Sth Melb/Syd) but newer teams are controlled by the league because they only exist because the AFL created them.
Now, unlike in the past, all games are broadcast on a weekly basis lifting the value of broadcast rights which is shared amongst the clubs. Also, with a limited number of clubs, sponsorship is a premium. A salary cap also exists which prevents the clubs trying to buy a premiership and going broke at the same time. Then there is membership fees, gate takings merchandise.
The term we use for purposefully losing for draft picks is "Tanking" and is seen as shameful not strategic. Not saying it doesn't happen but if a club comes into question about tanking the club members and the AFL supporters in general would not be pleased. Melbourne was in question in regards to tanking about a decade ago and it got ugly really quick.
And then of course there was the Kruezer Cup, between Melbourne and Carlton in the final round of 2007. The loser would get the first pick of the draft, which was already seen to be a lock for acquiring Matthew Kruezer. As I recall, it was a dreadful game played by both sides with Carlton managing to lose the game but getting their man.
Mate, honestly it's good to hear new voices. People who dismiss it as "soccerize" are probably very mentally set with an older form of the game. It's certainly given me some food for though on things I've seen ya say in a few videos.
Some aspects of the soccer system would work great with Aussie rules but some wouldn’t fit at all,
I’m a member of St Kilda and have been for 7 years with my family being members since the 1960s. The Saints as a club have dealt with financial issues over the years, currently there is the ‘threat’ of us being forced to move to Tasmania (as Tassie is pushing for its own AFL team) but we have fought again moving/merging before and will again. This threat is based on the fact that we have the most debt currently of all AFL clubs but that is also due to the fact that we have relocated our headquarters back to our spiritual home in Moorabbin and spent the money on developing our facilities.
I think that being a member owned club gives us more of a feeling of involvement and investment in the club, we also have a say in the appointment of the board, who in turn appoint coaches and other staff.
I’d love to hear your take on the current attempts being made by the members of Collingwood to spill the board through an extraordinary general meeting.
When it comes to the financial losses experienced by non-vic clubs it has historically followed a similar story. The club will generally be losing money for the first decade until the membership/interest grows enough for the club to support itself. Hence why the AFL started taking ownership by proxy for expansion clubs after Sydney/Brisbane. Regardless even when the state footy league or the AFL itself owns the club they are still LLC's and are not for profit, with all proceeds going back into the game.
Gday Rob.
As of 6th of May 2021. All up Membership of all clubs was 1,057,572.
The Footy A2Z channel makes awesome videos to learn about the AFL, definetely recommend you keep watching their videos.
In 2022. There is no private ownership of AFL Clubs. NO Franchises. Members of each club vote who is on the board, and each club is broadly an Community Aussie Rules club. In this context, some 'expansion clubs' which over the years have included Sydney Swans, The Brisbane Bears - now Brisee Lions, Gold Coast Suns & GWS are significantly under AFL control. SA has considerable input from SAFL. Teams include the Adelaide Crows & the historically overwhelmingly successful local league team Port Adelaide. (South Australian Football League has some AFL input). W.A. clubs West Coast Eagles and Fremantle Dockers are WAFL backed (Western Australia Aussie Rules Football League) are local competition owned. Tasmania has always been perhaps the most 'footie mad state' is a 'happy hunting ground for players' for many AFL clubs. Tassie aims to get an AFL Team -> The Tassie Devils ASAP!!! [SEE ALSO 'The Barassi Line]
I was a south Melbourne supporter it was a problem for me. My dad was fine.
I had a friend who when he went to a south Melbourne grand final they lost when ge did not go they won
He did not go in 1933 and 2005
He went in 36, 45, and 2006
But his duck was broken when in 2012 he went and they won
He was the most lovely man i have ever met
I've been a "dyed-in-the-wool" Hawks supporter since I was 10, (now in my late 70s) have followed them continuously for 47 years seeing at least 85% of home games. Since 1961 we are the most successful team in the AFL winning 13 Premierships including 3 in a row in 2013-14-15. We are now rebuilding for a shot at another premiership run in the next 2-5 years.
Hi Rob, not sure if you've covered it yet, but you might be surprised to know that the salary cap for each club is just over $13 million (around 7 million pounds) per year to cover all players and coaching staff. That's a bit different to English and European football, hey?
The AFL has a vested interest in making a good, even competition and so it wants to make all clubs succeed. Generally speaking the board members they elect are competent and more capable at their jobs than anybody else the members could elect so fans of the AFL run clubs really don't mind that the AFL decides the majority of the board members.
Something great about memberships is hearing the creative ways people threaten to destroy theirs if their club seriously underperforms. Microwaving is the classic, but I’ve heard throwing it in the fire place, feeding it to the dog, or simply tearing it up
We (Brisbane) hit our highest member count ever this year, about 35k, not the biggest membership in the league, Richmond has the biggest membership base at 100k in comparison, but after a few successful seasons, we are doing well. A lot of money also comes from sponsorships, which we struggled with in the past decade when we weren't making finals. But now we have a new training facility and base for the club (men's and women's teams) underway. Multi-million development they have been trying to get through for several years, that's happening with the help of the QLD government as well. So money comes from all avenues, just more on an influx when you're doing well as a team. Now that we're making finals consistently people suddenly see the investment. I think sponsorship struggles affect non-victorian teams more if they aren't performing well, cause most VIC clubs have such strong (large) supporter bases even when they don't do as well, they still get fairly big sponsorships.
Edit: I couldn't do it justice to explain it fully but if you look into what's happening with Collingwood right now, the members are in the process of trying to call an emergency general meeting to install a different president. Very dramatic and detractors kinda say it's making an unstable situation for the club but the members are executing their rights and what they are entitled to do in my opinion!
As a North Melbourne supporter i am extremely proud my club is a member owned club because it allowed us to fight the afl trying to relocate us against our will and also allows us to appoint the right people like james brayshaw who saved us from moving
Nice video mate. You should do more videos reacting to historic games from over the years. I recommend checking out the 2007 Grand Final which was the biggest grand final win in the history of the game which saw Geelong break their 44-year premiership drought
Great vids dude (I'm learning things, I had simply not looked into before). I am sure that you will find the axing of the Western Force, from our Rugby Union fascinating also. Two vids, from a quick search: WARU v ARU Ltd [2017] NSWSC 1174 | The Western Force Axing; & Super Rugby 2020: Return of the Western Force Trailer. Not suggesting you react to these (WA rugby has a relatively small following, compared to the eastern states), but for your interest... 🤙😀
You should check out the 2012 grand final (If you haven't already). Sydney vs Hawthorn - Probably one of the greatest grand finals (and matches) i have ever witnessed - A see sawing encounter that is full of GREAT moments and aftermath.
As a Adelaide Crows member I have no issue with the AFL being in charge of the club. In 2019 the club was debt free for the first time and really looking setup well for the future with a new club headquarters being planned until covid hit and that has now pushed things back till this year as discussions have started up again. I personally would like members to be able to select maybe 3-4 board members instead of 2 but at the moment things look to be going well so if it isn't broke don't fix it.
React to the AFL Draft explained video: ua-cam.com/video/O6yNeVtNbos/v-deo.html
Note that AFL Draft is very confusing but once understood it does get easier.
Hey Rob, have you spoken with the Donfather? It would be great to see you both talk about your journeys since discovering Aussie Rules.
For more info about the power of being Member Owned, check out the stuff surrounding Norths proposed relocation by the AFL. Member's preventing it was a huge part of why it was stopped.
They tend to be Boardroom types in their careers, and normally have high standing in the club - so they've been involved at some level in some (often volunteer) capacity. So they tend to be pretty good at running stuff, and tend to have a reasonably good understanding of how the club functions at both a corporate and a football level.
AFL can move clubs - but they have no interest to. They make money based on the financial success of clubs - so a move only makes sense where the crowds they attract in their new venue is greater than what they get currently - and while North has low attendance, Gold Coast's is even lower, so the equation to move North wouldn't have worked. The AFL still has the same challenges a different type of owner would in terms of where clubs are and how it would affect the member if they moved.
The draft has been (allegedly) exploited like that. in 2014 Melbourne was accused of deliberately losing games to get extra draft picks. It's sort of a difficult one, because the club argues that with no chance left that year, they were simply trying new things (players that wouldn't necessarily nomrally play in the positions they were put). The AFL is aware of this, and has tried to fix it (one of the ideas, I'm not sure if it was ever implemented was that the bottom 4 would go into a ballot for extra picks). It's also complicated by the salary caps which limit how much money can be used for players, coaches and other staff. Your club is one of the most controversial from this perspective - Sydney was granted a "cost of living" allowance that meant they had a higher salary cap and suddenly went on a spending spree luring Buddy and Tippet (no longer plays) - naturally there was outcry from supporters of other clubs that the cash injection wasn't intended to be burnt on attracting top talent.
Understand some of the video talks about the 80s and 90s. The AFL has grown massively since then - so while today $13mill might be pocket change to a club, int 1987 $13mill was a crazy amount of money in VFL terms.
The SANFL stuff was a can of worms. Google the history of SA clubs in the AFL. It ended up in court, because the SANFL instructed clubs they were not to apply for a license, and Port tried to circumvent them, which ended up in the premature creation of the crows (and has left a VERY bad taste in Port supporters' mouth).
One of the reasons GWS is still making a loss (other than dwindling membership) is that they are trying to develop support in Juniors and offering crazy freebies (one year my kids got free tickets to 4 games (only one of them is a Giants supporter, and I sure ain't), and more recently we came back with signed footys and other miscellany) - the kids go to the game looking for freebies, and gradually get lured from any allegiances they've developed to another club. Because "Western Sydney" was targetted because a failed NRL team in that area meant there was an audience to pinch, they also work hard to turn people from NRL to AFL - and it's not unusual to see free Auskick clinics in the school holidays in Canberra and regional NSW (I'd imagine QLD might be the same, but can't imagine/remembering Vic, SA or WA offering too much like that).
Intentionally losing is called tanking, idk if that same term is used elsewhere. Teams have been accused of tanking for draft picks, notably Melbourne FC was accused a few years back, it was never proved though.
Something you don't understand is the first 80 years was just Victoria
Private ownership of a sporting Club is not favourably viewed in Australia and rightly so.
Well I sort of understand as you guys have had bad experiences by the looks of it. It seems like the guys who took over just wernt rich enough
The rich mostly buy sporting teams to satisfy their own inflated egos and not for the love of the club or the game. Just spoilt brats buying a new toy, to be used then discarded.
Rob, great reaction videos by the way. Much appreciated from lock downed Melbourne. Hope you get to Australia one day and see a game at the MCG
Good on you Rob... You're awesome...the AFL has a long goal of EVERY club being 100% owned by by members...
Loving watching the growth of the channel. Well deserved. Not loving the Sydney loyalty however, but each to their own (from a Richmond supporter)
haha thanks Riley. Channel is growing quicker than i ever expected!! And if it makes you feel better when i did the live watch along at the weekend for essendon vs Richmond, i picked Richmond to win! ;)
The AFL system is so corrupt. 12 of the 18 clubs are financially dependent on the AFL and the AFL appoints its own people to senior roles at these clubs. Some clubs may be officially fan owned but the AFL owns the rights to the club colours and a whole lot of other club trademarks & licences, meaning in practice AFL clubs are really controlled by the AFL; because a club wouldn't be the same club without its colours/song/mascot/jumper/etc.
In terms of club members voting for the board at the AGM; the recently "pushed out" president of Collingwood, Eddie McGuire, has been going around boasting about how there was never an election during his 22 year tenure. There will probably be an Extraordinary General Meeting at Collingwood at the end of the year solely because a rival group is pushing to overthrow the current board and new president, Mark Korda.
The AFL itself is a totally unaccountable organisation. In soccer terms, they are basically the equivalent of FIFA, the Football Association, the Premier League, and the English Football League, all rolled into one. They are judge, jury, and executioner on every possible issue that may arise. The CEO of the AFL, Gillon McLachlan, is ostensibly a part of the AFL Commission, which is like the AFL's board. The Chairman of the Commission, Richard Goyder, is a faceless yes-man for Gil McLachlan and didn't even attend the Grand Final last year.
I could go on forever about AFL corruption. A well known sports journalist in Melbourne, Mick Warner, has just released a book detailing the AFL "Boys' Club" and the way it's handled every major scandal in the last 20 years. Naturally, no media organisation other than the newspaper and radio station he works for have mentioned this book out of fear of retribution from the AFL who control the highly competitive broadcasting rights. Warner himself was famously stripped of his media accreditation for the 2013 AFL Finals because of his reporting on the AFL's handling of the Essendon drug crisis. The AFL now operates its own media wing and employs high profile journalists to provide North Korean style coverage of the AFL. One AFL employed journalist, Mitch Cleary, was fired for posting a screenshot to Twitter, which other journalists had already shared, of something a player's wife posted to her public Instagram that showed she had breached the Covid restrictions of the AFL's bio-security bubbles last year - a scandal that was supposed to be swept under the rug. The whole thing is a joke.
So in my video talking to Andrew an ex AFL Umpire, he was talking about the financial side and how its not spread around fairly. And yes, its seems strange for a club to basically be owned by the league. the way the league is able to just relocate a team thousand of miles away is baffling
@@RobReacts1 Edlestone was a billion
@@RobReacts1 The AFL can't just relocate any club, they only did it those times because the was no other choice given the financial situation, it's better than collapsing and not existing anymore. I think only a few clubs are financially independent from the AFL. The fact that only one club was moved when there are so many clubs based in the one state, Victoria, is quite impressive. I'd definitely be against any moving of Vic clubs to other states and I'm from SA.
I generally don't mind who's in charge as long as they have a vested interest in keeping the growth of the league and grass roots football and I don't see that with a private owner.
But running a successful AFL club doesn’t require the massive amounts of money required to be competitive in English football
The Lions ran a profit in 2020 . Considering that I am a socialist , it's really important that the club owned by the proletariat .
Last year the Lions had 29,277 members. It fluctuates depending on the season but usually the club brings in between $600,000 and $2,000,000 profit although with the last 2 years with covid it's hard to know exactly what the numbers are. We also made finals in 2019, 2020 and are currently fourth and looking strong again this year so we're in a good place atm.
Carn the Lions
40,000 members this year first time in it’s joint history 😊
The AFL has been evolving ... and each club is treated as an entity ie company. The AFL is doing a fine job as a holding company and has stabilised the group, which is working well despite covid lockdowns which thankfully, have now been lifted.
Member owned clubs are the richest in the world in my opinion. You’re not at the behest of an owner and it truly makes you feel part of the club and its history. I truly hope that the footy teams never are bought out. Would ruin the connection
Just a point of reference the AFL commission is in turn technically controlled by the clubs, the clubs are able to spill the AFL board if a majorly group up. Although this is difficult as the AFL controls the 5 votes of the clubs it runs
The one big advantage we have in Australia when it comes to AFL and the NRL is that unlike English football we have no competition so we can keep the costs down. The one thing that made player wages boom in the NRL in the 1990’s was the competition from the Rugby Union but now the Rugby Union has basically sent themselves broke.
As a Member of of one of those member own clubs I love it. I get more of a say on how my club runs. Although they don't listen as much as they should to their members.
Love your videos. I'm an Essendon supporter and member. It make me feel part of the club knowing that I have a vote to determine the club's board. I'd hate private ownership. The club would be a toy for a billionaire.
It's only a matter of time before the Perth and Adelaide clubs become fully member owned clubs. I'm surprised it hasn't already happened.
Some of the smaller Melbourne clubs are being crowded out by the larger Melbourne clubs. This will mean they will either merge, relocate or become a club like Gold Coast and GWS. That is, owned by the AFL. Their financial circumstances will determine when or if this occurs.
I’d be interested to hear who you think of as smaller Melbourne clubs as most clubs memberships in Melbourne have been growing year on year.
@@tinybluefishy
The smallest Melbourne club is North Melbourne. The Melbourne club that is in the most financial trouble is St.Kilda. To secure their future North Melbourne should have relocated to the Gold Coast when the opportunity arose. Eight clubs can't survive in Melbourne without AFL assistance.
@@ditch7135 I’m biased being a stkilda member and yes the club isn’t in the best position financially, a lot of that has to do with our relocation back to Moorabbin and the infrastructure and upgrades we’ve done. However we have also set membership records for the last 4 years including through Covid extremes last year and our shaking form this year.
Are you basing the 8 clubs can’t survive purely on last years figures? Or on longer term figures?
@@tinybluefishy The clubs themselves will determine whether or not they survive. It's all based on finances, which is determined by membership numbers, sponsorship and how well the club is run. Paying off debt is very important while interest rates are low.
Hi Rob, no need to apologise for your comments about promotion / relegation. Most of us Aussies strongly believe that it wouldn't work here, and looking at most football (soccer) leagues around the world, it doesn't really work there either! The rich clubs stay at the top (go Liverpool) and most promoted clubs get relegated in a year or two unless a billionaire comes along.
I really enjoyed this video because I had forgotten some of the historical facts regarding private ownership. It was a very messy time, and a bit sad because most of the owners were not huge AFL fans. It was just a business deal or an ego boost.
The good news is that most AFL clubs are in quite a strong position nowadays thanks to the massive TV money. Yes, a lot of them get funds redistributed from the AFL, but they are all generally well run, with low levels of debt. Most board members are highly qualified, professional people, and most club supporters wouldn't even know them - perhaps apart from the president / chairperson. Board elections are quite few and far between for members. Even my club (North Melbourne) who are on the bottom of the ladder, are sowing the seeds for a bright future.
Apart from the private ownership, I think the AFL has a lot more in common with the NFL (which I have followed since 1988) than any other major sporting league in the world. We both have large team lists, a national draft, a salary cap, lots of injuries, no promotion / relegation, and we're not a global game. We can't just acquire one or two good players from another country and get to the top. You need to work your way up over a period of time by building a strong program. (Tom Brady might be the exception).
The guy that went bankrupt was one of Australia’s worst white collar criminals and unrelated to the Bears
Maybe you can look at the irish involvement in the AFL .They are quite a few and in the past Gaelic footballers who have played in the AFL and more recently AFLW .Its controversial here in ireland in that we are losing our best players,but on the otherhand the numbers are small and players have won all ireland medals after returning from AFL Tadgh kennelly and Tommy Walsh for example.
Brisbane is doing well as a club big focus on youth and has hit its biggest membership numbers this year ever hitting 35000 members this year. Definitely not as big as some Victorian clubs but still respectable for a primarily rugby state.
A lot of the merger or relocation teams have been from Victoria, a State where the sport is hugely popular, to other States where the game isn't as big. Memberships for these clubs in other States is usually significantly lower, so these teams typically struggle a bit more. There are mechanisms in the back ground where the AFL 'props up' these teams so they don't go bankrupt, but it is why private ownership hasn't worked in the past. Overall, the competition makes a heap of money, but not all the clubs are profitable. The AFL gets a big part of their money, by tv rights for the games so it is important to have these teams, in all states and to have the amount of games needed.
Overall the game has grown significantly in the other states, and membership style club ownership works the best for the sport in the landscape down here. Game just needs to continue to support the outlier teams to get them self sufficient long term.
With GWS and Gold Coast it makes alot of sense, Both teams were completely made by the afl (not a relocated club or a promoted club from the area) so they basically had no members, didn't help that they were in a traditionally "rugby state" as well
Look at what is happening at Collingwood now this week forcing the board to have a election at the end of the season remember that most of the clubs are more than 100 years old and some are over 160 years old so I think it does work
Im a Melbourne member ❤💙 my parents have been members for years
I can’t get into any league where the teams are privately owned and there’s no salary cap. It’s not a sporting competition, it’s literally a question of who had the biggest bank account.
Being a Victorian Brisbane Lions member the club has recorded 40,000 for 2021 it is the first time since it’s joined history even when Brisbane had success from 2001 - 03 it never had as many members. But the club is still getting financial help from the AFL. Sydney has 48,372 members this season both still have connections with it’s Victorian history with South Melbourne & Fitzroy. Brisbane has roughly 8,000 Victorian members out of the 40,000 which is more then what Fitzroy had in 1995 - 96. Sydney probably has more Victorian members because of the way the AFL treated the Fitzroy/ Brisbane merger some people couldn’t bring themselves to go for Brisbane. NSW & Queensland are different from WA & SA who are more like Victoria because it’s NRL rugby heartland. It hasn’t been easy for both teams. When Brisbane was set up at Carrara Oval where Gold Coast is now they had shipping containers modified to be club rooms. During the early 90’s both Sydney & Brisbane where financially bankrupt that the AFL CEO at the time Ross Oakley was floating the idea of merging both club’s. But instead he helped both clubs by getting Brisbane to move to the GABBA, got experience coaches Ron Barassi & Robert Walls into both clubs & both clubs where able to recruit big name players so in 3 years they went from merger partners to almost playing off in a grand final in 1996 the bears where well defeated by the eventual premiers North Melbourne in the preliminary final.
As a freo fan sure I’d like members to own the club eventually. That said I’m sure eagles fans would like the same. But it’s true to say that the wafc do generate a lot of money and infrastructure into footy across WA on all levels of the sport which is a good thing.
Very interesting review and view of how the AFL is run and who own the clubs.
The old adage in football seems to apply everywhere. How do you get to ‘rich’ owning a club? Start off at ‘very rich’.
Its such an alien system to me due to following football and it may be similar with you following rugby(ish). In some sense, it seems like the clubs dont hold the cards, they cant make their own money and make their own success. However, i do appreciate that the leagues are more even and dont have a 'big 4' like football
I was a fan during the turbulent times for the Swans in the 80’s and 90’s and am much happier now the club is owned by the AFL but we (I’m now a Member) do have a say in two of the board members.
You have to take a couple of things into account the 11 member owned clubs are old and original clubs all of whom are between 100 and 130 years old the rest of the clubs are around 30 years old the exception being the Swans. Many of the private ownership failures took place during the transition from Victoria to a new state or starting from scratch.
So you have young clubs trying to build fan bases in States that were primarily rugby league or Union states and trying to get fans to transfer their allegiances from clubs that may of been followed by their great great grand fathers. Finally Christopher Skase was as bent as a three bob note.
Most boards select themselves, board member leaves, board suggests someone, members confirm it at the agm
And we only had three TV stations for a long time so only half the games were on telly and only half of that was live
With the 2 South Australian clubs, I am under the impression that once those clubs pay the AFL the amount that was paid to the SANFL for their liscences in 2014 that they will become member owned. This is years away though.
Port doesn’t feel like it’s owned by the AFL the Adelaide teams are pretty independent
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Port Adelaide and Adelaide own by the SANFL or at least there AFL licences are owned or controlled by the SANFL.
@@lunch2102
You are correct 😂😂 how did I stuff that one up. I fixed it.
@@johntom5049 Not since 2014 where both clubs did a deal to buy back the licences from the SANFL. However SANFL leading up to this point placed both clubs into financial strain requiring AFL assistance to survive.
The SANFL still has an commercial interest in the clubs as they are now part owner of Adelaide Oval which both clubs are required to play their home games at.
@@ibd1977 I think once both the Crows and Port pay the AFL the amount that was paid to the SANFL in 2014, then the members will be in full control of the boards. This is years away though.
Very interesting video, knew a fair bit of it, but definitely didn't understand that structure over in WA. Look, the AFL are in some ways control freaks. They want to own every aspect of the game and brand it as AFL. Growing up, we said we 'play football, footy, aussie rules, but the last 15-20 years it's now 'we play AFL.'
The Australian National Football Council ran the game, and the league ran, well, the league until the mid 90s, but there's been a lot of grey introduced now that the league runs the actual game.
It's a bit of a shemozzle...I guess when you create a national league out of a state league who were in desperate need of funds, you make compromises along the way! Very glad that I have a sense of ownership as a 5th gen Richmond member! Great topic, thanks!
Interesting little video on our club nicknames too ua-cam.com/video/V7FcKcqTp0I/v-deo.html
Its like NFL. Its not NFL its american football. But everyone calls it the league name.
@@RobReacts1 Yep exactly!
Nothing wrong with making soccer comparisons mate. Firstly, if that helps you understand the sport by relating aspects of it to something you're familiar with, that's a good thing. Secondly, no sport has a monopoly on the "ideal" way to do things, so there's always food for thought. Quite enjoying how you're really getting into it. AFL is a very entertaining sport and that's the whole aim, after all.
Cheers mate. I use soccer as a comparison because thats what i know. Firstly it helps me understand but also opens up discussion for all sports on how to make things better
Hey Rob, The SANFL stands for the South Australian Football League. The creation of it and how the rivalry between SA and VIC started is a react video on its own. Check out the AFL State of Origin. They were big games.
The Adelaide football club was originally the first football club in SA and was created before alot of the Vic clubs. Althouh the team folded and came back and folded again in the first 30 years of the league. The way the team came about to be the first SA team in the AFL was controversial as well. I know Port supporters to this day who are still filthy about it.
Someone may have mentioned this but for an example of what happens to a team that I think we can say now "definitely tanked" check out the Melbourne football club scandal about 10 years ago.
The original Adelaide Football Club has no connection with the modern Adelaide Football Club.
The Port Adelaide Football Club founded in 1870, however, is the oldest South Australian football club still in existance.
Port and South Adelaide are the only original SANFL clubs still around.
@@nicegan8902 I agree there is no connection. Just an interesting story and one that, like I said is still raw for alot of supporters.
Rob there are over 1 million paid up members of the AFL teams. When you take into account the presence of Rugby in NSW and Queensland it is astounding to think that 1 in every 25 Australians are paid up members of an AFL team. This is the result of the teams being member owned. I am a Bombers fan which has over 80,000 members and has just had its 150th anniversary making it one of the oldest professional sports clubs in the world.
No team wants the optics of deliberately losing games (they call it "tanking"). But teams that can't make the finals often run a younger team and get them experience. It has the benefit of getting those youngsters more experience, and if they lose it doesn't look like they've lost deliberately.
The league doesn't take any money from Sydney, they just appoint the board and any money stays in the club
As a member of a club, I appreciate voting rights and the control of our own destiny this brings as opposed to the way it may work with a Saudi Prince owning the club. That said, I thought member ownership/control was universal in the league until I watched this video.
It’s been two months now mate. I think it’s time for you to declare a team.
You’ll want to make a solid choice. One that won’t earn scorn or ostracise you from the remaining 17 team’s supporters. Collingwood, Carlton, Giants, Eagles, Lions and Swans are all out.
It should be a team build on a long enduring, respectable and proud culture. Not the kind of club who are full of bogans, thugs, or druggies. Dogs, Essendon, Port, Cats, Freo, Tigers, and Crows are all out.
While you’re at it, pick a side that’s doing particularly well this year so you can celebrate loudly when they win the Grand Final this year. Kangaroos, Hawks, Saints, Suns are all out.
Congratulations, you are now a Melbourne Demons supporter.
It’s a grand old flag!
18:17 - it's less about "representation" of those areas and more about trying to have a bigger presence in areas where Rugby is the more popular sport (NSW/Queensland). This is obvious because Tassie and Northern Territory still have no nationally represented AFL teams
But Tasmania and the NT have small populations and simply wouldn’t be able to raise enough money to be sustainable. Sydney and South East Queensland have a large population that could generate enough members in the future.
Rob,great video again mate varied content on your channel and always interesting 👍you seem to cover Australia a fair bit which is no criticism I'm wondering if you've been or want to go perhaps as an AFL ref🤔cheers buddy✌️🍻
Thanks buddy! I would happily give it a go. Especially as a goal umpire. That must be easy enough 😜
I love reacting to people who don’t have any idea what AFL is. At least he knows a bit of what he’s talking about
Haha I do have a sporting background as a player, referee and coach in soccer. I do my best to analysis things a bit deeper 😉
You need to understand that AFL isn’t currently a big enough sport in Sydney for them to be run like the Melbourne clubs. They just don’t have enough members to generate the money to sustain themselves. Without money from the AFL they just wouldn’t exist.
Personally I can understand why the AFL would want ownership of newer clubs like GWS and Gold Coast, seeing as they have comparatively fewer members and therefore less revenue. But for the clubs like West Coast that are well-established, and have tens of thousands of members, I agree with you Rob that they should be member-owned, or at least elect half their board members.
That said, the AFL-owned clubs are pretty well-run, I suppose it's more a principle thing of being a club "for the members and of the members".
I think most supporters of member-owned clubs take it for granted but don't like privately-owned clubs either. Clubs reflect Australia being a settler-society; in the old days it was either the community made its own fun, or there wasn't any. Clubs rely very much on free labour, which people are happy to provide for the benefit of a community organisation but not for a commercial business. One thing not mentioned is that there are hundreds of smaller footy (and netball, cricket, bowls, golf etc) clubs all over Australia, the AFL "member-owned" clubs simply reflect this grassroots structure.
I’m an Essendon supporter & pay a high higher membership so I absolutely love having our own voice to our club and being run by us supporters.
By the way know you’ve got a good understanding of our game have you chosen yourself a team to follow!? 🖤❤️🖤
I was sent a swans shirt. So I'm now a blood 🔴⚪🔴
@@RobReacts1 Oh well that’s disappointing! Jump on the bombers bandwagon ⚫️🔴⚫️
You already know how the VFL transitioned into the national AFL. It was change that led to some magical moments. Such as 1992 when a non-Victorian team won the grand final. The looks of horror as Victorian smugness at their footy superiority was shattered. Or when Brisbane won the grand final in 2001. Had not done that as a Victorian team since 1944. Then the ultimate horror. A grand final between two non-Victorian teams in 2004. Much mumbling there should be a competition specifically for the Victorian clubs. The reactions to changes brought by national competition reinforced the feeling that Aussie rules had been invented so Victoria, or more specifically Melbourne, could be best in the world at something.
I think most AFL owned club members couldn't care less that the AFL owns us. I didn't even know about the power structure, only that Collingwood is one of the only fully financially independent club from the AFL. Many of the others are supported financially by the AFL
No need to apologizing for "soccering up" it's how you make afl understandable and relatable to you
Yea that's all I'm doing. I did the same with rugby when I was exploring that. Makes it easier for me to understand. And also, no sports are perfect so creating a discussion can only be a good thing surely?!
I'm not a member so I can't say for sure, but i'd liken it to RACV club membership, we get a vote as to who the Board members are, but no idea who any of them actually are, aside from Eddie Maguire with Collingwood who is famous as the long time host of A Current Affair and has been Collingwood's president for decades and bloody Kennett the despised former premier of Victoria who runs the Hawks.
However a dedicated fan could gather knowledge about the people running the club and who to vote for and most execs are dedicated fans, which is important.
Self run utilising sponsors.👍🏻🇦🇺😁
the money doesn't come from the actual payment that the members make, it comes from crowds, merchandising and sponsorships. There is basically no element of investing
The clubs "owned" by the league technically the league just owns the license and has rights to select board members under the license agreement. The club itself is still member owned.
I suspect that what we are seeing here, may have been similar to what happened to the British premier league clubs many decades ago... Economies of scale? Clubs and competitions grow, and the models change to handle them?
Port Adelaide are actively seeking independence from AFL control. This will occur on the provision we clear our debt which is currently sat at $13M AUD.
From a member and fan base point of view, the club still retains its feeling as a club run for its members and not for the corporates. Port has prided itself in the last decade of fan engagement which in turn helps increase our membership numbers.
I am not sure where the Adelaide Crows fans and members sit in relation to AFL ownership and control at the moment.
As a freo supporter... the WAFL does a great job of making sure the clubs run well...we have peter bell as the current president, he was the captain of the dockers for four years. Good hands. Figurative and literal.
You arent going to find any west australian complaininh about money being put into the game locally, as one of the biggest challenges for both freo and the eagles is getting players that dont want to go 4000km back home after two years COUGH COUGH CAM MCARTHY.
You grow the game at home, you find some gun that gree up in a regional town... they turn out to be nat fyfe. You have a player for life that will never leave because wa is home.
The AFL has got so much money that it can afford to bail out any club that needs it and won’t let any club go under and fold as that would create bigger problems in terms of fixtures, the AFL has a broadcast deal that provides them 500 million dollars a year, just from broadcasting so they won’t run out of money soon, the salary cap for a single club in comparison is only about 12 million
Eagles fans really aren't going to complain. We've been the most *consistently* successful club in the league. Other teams have had higher peaks, sure, but they've also experienced long periods of just not being good. The Eagles never stay down.
It's a Socialist system, which works in the favor of the poor and the weak. If you are Club that's been around forever, such as mine, Collingwood, you are somewhat punished for standing on your own two feet, paying your own way, not looking for AFL hand outs. On the other hand, poorly run clubs are forever crying poor, so are handed AFL lifelines in cash to the tune of Millions. Also, the draft positions at seasons end, are sometimes manipulated by the AFL (extra and earlier) picks for the perennial bad teams. So when this happens year after year, eventually, bad teams become good and good teams become bad. This is what the AFL wants, periods of success for everyone, whether you deserve it or not.
I hear ya, but the alternative is worse. Who wants to see the same teams dominate just because they are rich? i.e. Formula One, English Football, American baseball
The biggest problem is that teams don't play each other twice so sides that performed well the year before get a tougher draw the following season...still love it more than any other sport even when it pissed me off
Rob, a lot of AFL people hate soccer with a passion unfortunately. Quite often when I've been playing soccer people will shout obscenities from their car while driving past and kids at school used to constantly say nasty things about it. There was even a problem in Melbourne a while back where people were deliberately pouring broken glass on soccer pitches. There is a subset of people in Australia who are dead scared that soccer will eventually take over and eradicate their game. There are 400% more people playing soccer and it has a proper global platform, so I can understand why they are perhaps a bit scared to co-exist. The most common thing I heard growing up was that "soccer is for wogs and poofs". I sort of understand the animosity because we have about 5 winter sports and in order of participation they are soccer, AFL, rugby league, rugby union and hockey. I think the rugby people are a bit touchy too, as it feels like a bit of a turf war. There are actually only 50,000 adults playing rugby league and 200,000 people playing rugby union in total, including kids, compared to 125,000 who play hockey. There is a lot of competition for participants, fans, sponsors, sporting grounds, government funding etc. in such a spread out country with a small population, and unfortunately it seems to pit some sports against each other. I think a lot of dudes who think they're tough are freaked out that their sons or grand kids might come home and tell them that they've taken up soccer. Honestly, having any affiliation with soccer or even mentioning the name of the sport is likely to get you in hot water with the rabid AFL folks. You end up inadvertently being some sort of sworn enemy through no fault of your own. The funny thing is I went to a top AFL school and a couple of the teachers saw me playing men's soccer in the newspaper when I was 14 and other sports at PE and they were constantly onto me about switching over to take the place of kids already in the program. There are guys playing in the AFL who switched from basketball or soccer in their late teens, or even a guy from the United States who came over as an adult. I've been talking to a few farmers in Victoria where a lot of the players come from and apparently in a lot of these regions they don't start playing competitively until 15 years old. It is kind of weird when compared to what I am used to because most of the best soccer players usually start somewhere between 3-6 years old. The sports are quite different in this regard. Any sort of comparison or mention of ideas from soccer will just lead to hate and ridicule unfortunately - the AFL people don't want anything to do with it.
The AFL owns all the licences, the AFL is set up by the clubs to run the competition, so in the end the AFL is the teams themselves
There is a dirrerence between members and fans . Members pay for season tickets where as fans can be just followers or "barackers".
I sort of understand what you're saying. But sometimes fans can't afford to be buying season tickets
Like I said in a prior video: there are 9 AFL clubs in Melbourne. That’s the equivalent of 18 premier league clubs in London. Some of them have a lot less fans/money than others.
You might have to redo the maths on that one
Gay Red Shoes Melbourne population: 5.159million
London population: 9.787million.
Melbourne = 50.49% of London by population or approximately half. Multiply 9 AFL clubs by 2 = 18.
I’d say my maths is pretty spot on, thanks anyway.
You should do a video on geelong
You’re right about the draft system, it’s flawed and damaging, especially to a club with rich history like Carlton. That had its draft picks taken, and then in later years new clubs being given the top draft picks.
You cheated that’s why you lost draft picks. Do the crime and do the time.