I worked in Conservation at The Henry Ford for 10 years and during that time we worked on the Allegheny to prepare it for improved exhibition. I have climbed over and under every part of this loco and tender and will never forget how spooky it was. Before the stairs were installed and the cab cleaned up for interactive exhibit purposes, this area was dark, dusty, grimy and cobwebbed. We had to remove a bit of coal from the tender and screw and clean out the firebox. This was not an activity for the weak at heart as the box, while large, was claustrophobic, dirty and spooky as heck! We installed the light in there and it made it less scary but i heard alot of guests remark on how spooky the entire train looked. I would not have traded the experience for anything and will remember ALL of the cool artifacts I worked on, but especially the Allegheny 2-6-6-6 #601
A great video, great explanation of all the controls. I grew up in Detroit and I first saw that same engine in that same spot about 55 years ago as a kid of 10. It was a shock for me, because I had seen real-life steam locomotives all my life up to then, but never saw a four-cylindered articulated before. I enjoy all your 1225 videos. I was attending MSU back when the "Free 1225" movement was just getting started.
This is an impressive steam engine, you have to love articulated steam locomotives due to their size & the c&o 1601 is an example of how railroads increased locomotive sizes through the decades. The C&O rr really needed serious strength with locomotives being required to haul the 10,000+ ton coal trains through the "Allegheny" mountain range.
Nice that you were able to spot many of the same pieces that are both on C&O 1601 & PM 1225. ^_^ Thanks ROMICH for taking a looking at C&O 1601. Good hearing your editorial on it's condition. ^_^
This beast needs to be restored to run again since Big Boy 4014 is gonna return to the rails in just a week. Trouble is how can they get that beast out of the museum? It’ll require tons of grease to the wheels to just get it to move, it’ll require at least 3 diesel locomotives to pull it out of there and they may have to tear a big enough hole in the wall just to pull it out. One of the big boys that have been cosmetically restored but were too far gone to run again should go in this beasts place. Since this engine is in really good shape from indoor storage for 60 years, it should be easy to restore
Wow awesome video! great job! :) Im going to see 1601 at the henry ford in 8 days and i was wondering if you know... Someone told me that 1601's cab is closed off and you cant go in it anymore, is that true? (i hope its not)
The Allegheny definitely offers a lot of DBHP (drawbar horsepower), 7498 DBHP, but in terms of tractive effort though, not so much, 110,200 lbs. The N&W A could start a heavier train with its 125,897 lbs (some other sources say 114,000 lbs). The Allegheny is still powerful though.
A N&W A had between 104,500 lbs. for the first few locomotives built, and around 114,000 lbs of tractive effect for the last 10 locomotives. The Allegheny produced closer to 8,000 DBHP, and around 130,000lbs of tractive effect. I personally know and old N&W engineer..
@@parts323 Where did you get those figures? There's a formula for calculating a steam locomotive's tractive effort (using .85), so my tractive effort numbers are correct. Boiler pressure multiplied by the constant, multiplied by the piston in inches squared, multiplied by the stroke in inches, divided by the driving wheel diameter (multiple the final number by 2 for steam locomotives with 4 cylinders). N&W A: 300 x 0.85 x 24^2 x 30 / 70 x 2 = 125,897 C&O H-8: 260 x 0.85 x 22.5^2 x 33 / 67 x 2 = 110,211 (Year old comment I know, but I had to say something after coming back here)
@@09JDCTrainMan I got my information from something very rare these days, a book about N&W steam locomotives, and the conversation I had with an old N&W engineer. I am not arguing with math, but your math is not allowing for that fact that the allegheny steam locomotive was also much heavier than originally stated. There was even a class action lawsuit. The accuracy of the dynomometer car was also in question.
@@parts323 That's because the math doesn't have to do with weight in the slightest, as it does not affect tractive effort. Weight on the drivers and the t.e. steamer a has determines factor of adhesion, which the Allegheny has a lot of due not having that much t.e. in comparison and having a lot of weight on the drivers. So, yeah, calculating a steam locomotive's tractive effore does not include weight.
She may be in good shape, but I don't see it running. Problem is that they had to take down the door to get it in, and they would do the same to get it out. That and the fact of locations the museum could run it, and the weight of the thing.
MrRailroadrunner And also the C&O Allegheney's may be the most powerful locomotives ever built when it comes to horsepower but not in pure tractive effort, that titles goes to the N&W 2156 which is a N&W Y6. When it comes to titles the list is as followed. C&O Allegheney: Heaviest steam locomotive ever built, most powerful (horsepower rating) steam locomotive ever built. Tractive effort: 110,200lbs Union Pacific Big Boy: Largest steam locomotive ever built. Tractive effort: 135,375lbs N&W Y6: Most powerful (tractive effort rating) locomotive ever built. Tractive effort: 166,000lbs N&W J Class: Most powerful Northern configuration (4-8-4) locomotive ever built. Tractive effort: 80,000lbs
+legorailroader844 Well, I guess everyone is an expert on this. First off, I only said it would be interesting to get it running again because it is the most intact and probably easiest to get going. The biggest problem after a restoration would be where would it go? Of course, weight is another problem but I don't see it being an issue if it goes over the same route it came on. That is, unless they downgraded bridges or something. As for "the biggest" I was only talking about horsepower because I didn't want to get into a fight about weight and tractive effort and yadda yadda yadda. You also have to take into account the COMBINED locomotive and tender weight as well as the difference between gross and net weight. Remember, there were two classes of Big Boys and the second class is credited with being heavier and thus the largest engine ever built. Then of course you'd have the Alleghenies and first class of big boys followed by "Yellowstone" type locomotives on DMIR. From there you have to take into account all of the above when it comes to all the other big locos.
True true you have a point, I was only going over the well known ones obviously. It would be nice to see it get going yes but as you said it all falls down to where it would run. Would be cool to see it hauling freight a bit like UP is going to do with 4014 once in awhile once its running.
The Allegheny also has axle at.s of 86000 ilbs plus&83,000+, bit too much for a lot of r.r.'s bridge axle ratings.B it then again,the big boy of U.P game has pulled excursions in surprising places.
Well it's been proven that a giant locomotive like that can be restored. U.P proved by restoring a big boy, that you need the money, the space and the patience to do it. Many people are saying that none of the Allegheny's would ever run again. I can see #1604 not having that chance. This one which is 1601 is in good enough shape on the outside anyway, it would be a great restoration candidate
The Henry Ford will never give it up and it will never be restored to working condition as the tracks outside are all narrow gauge. When the 601 was brought to the museum it was on specially-laid tracks and under its own power. This said, the Loco is close to running condition now and would do so with a "minor" amount of work. It has been considered and a loco restoration expert estimated a few weeks to make it work again even if it could do with a complete rebuild.
@@detroitboy65 What I'm saying is if CSX was smart enough and developed a steam program, they can buy this engine to restore to operation. They just have to lay down special tracks to get this engine out of the museum. I think Big Boy #4006 would be perfect to put into 1601's place. It just needs cosmetic restoration. What would be great about that is it'll be out of the elements
I worked in Conservation at The Henry Ford for 10 years and during that time we worked on the Allegheny to prepare it for improved exhibition. I have climbed over and under every part of this loco and tender and will never forget how spooky it was. Before the stairs were installed and the cab cleaned up for interactive exhibit purposes, this area was dark, dusty, grimy and cobwebbed. We had to remove a bit of coal from the tender and screw and clean out the firebox. This was not an activity for the weak at heart as the box, while large, was claustrophobic, dirty and spooky as heck! We installed the light in there and it made it less scary but i heard alot of guests remark on how spooky the entire train looked. I would not have traded the experience for anything and will remember ALL of the cool artifacts I worked on, but especially the Allegheny 2-6-6-6 #601
How I'd have loved to see these in their glory days. As glad as I am to see it preserved (and so we'll), I'm sad she sleeps.
A great video, great explanation of all the controls. I grew up in Detroit and I first saw that same engine in that same spot about 55 years ago as a kid of 10. It was a shock for me, because I had seen real-life steam locomotives all my life up to then, but never saw a four-cylindered articulated before. I enjoy all your 1225 videos. I was attending MSU back when the "Free 1225" movement was just getting started.
Wouldn’t it be amazing if 1601 was restored. It would be expensive though. Maybe it’ll happen in the future.
and smokey like 1308 and 1309
This is an impressive steam engine, you have to love articulated steam locomotives due to their size & the c&o 1601 is an example of how railroads increased locomotive sizes through the decades. The C&O rr really needed serious strength with locomotives being required to haul the 10,000+ ton coal trains through the "Allegheny" mountain range.
Nice that you were able to spot many of the same pieces that are both on C&O 1601 & PM 1225. ^_^
Thanks ROMICH for taking a looking at C&O 1601. Good hearing your editorial on it's condition. ^_^
+jrahrig Your welcome, John! Hope you are able to come by Owosso again and see what's new.
just want to say thanks for taking the time to do such a good thorough walkaround. and doing decent camera work, with a good solid narrative.
Hermosa locomotora 👌
I want to see this giant in person! Did you have to pay a fee to get in to the museum?
Very nice video.
This beast needs to be restored to run again since Big Boy 4014 is gonna return to the rails in just a week. Trouble is how can they get that beast out of the museum? It’ll require tons of grease to the wheels to just get it to move, it’ll require at least 3 diesel locomotives to pull it out of there and they may have to tear a big enough hole in the wall just to pull it out. One of the big boys that have been cosmetically restored but were too far gone to run again should go in this beasts place. Since this engine is in really good shape from indoor storage for 60 years, it should be easy to restore
Wow awesome video! great job! :) Im going to see 1601 at the henry ford in 8 days and i was wondering if you know... Someone told me that 1601's cab is closed off and you cant go in it anymore, is that true? (i hope its not)
It was retired in 1959 not 56
The Allegheny definitely offers a lot of DBHP (drawbar horsepower), 7498 DBHP, but in terms of tractive effort though, not so much, 110,200 lbs. The N&W A could start a heavier train with its 125,897 lbs (some other sources say 114,000 lbs). The Allegheny is still powerful though.
A N&W A had between 104,500 lbs. for the first few locomotives built, and around 114,000 lbs of tractive effect for the last 10 locomotives. The Allegheny produced closer to 8,000 DBHP, and around 130,000lbs of tractive effect. I personally know and old N&W engineer..
@@parts323 Where did you get those figures? There's a formula for calculating a steam locomotive's tractive effort (using .85), so my tractive effort numbers are correct. Boiler pressure multiplied by the constant, multiplied by the piston in inches squared, multiplied by the stroke in inches, divided by the driving wheel diameter (multiple the final number by 2 for steam locomotives with 4 cylinders).
N&W A: 300 x 0.85 x 24^2 x 30 / 70 x 2 = 125,897
C&O H-8: 260 x 0.85 x 22.5^2 x 33 / 67 x 2 = 110,211
(Year old comment I know, but I had to say something after coming back here)
@@09JDCTrainMan I got my information from something very rare these days, a book about N&W steam locomotives, and the conversation I had with an old N&W engineer. I am not arguing with math, but your math is not allowing for that fact that the allegheny steam locomotive was also much heavier than originally stated. There was even a class action lawsuit. The accuracy of the dynomometer car was also in question.
@@parts323 That's because the math doesn't have to do with weight in the slightest, as it does not affect tractive effort. Weight on the drivers and the t.e. steamer a has determines factor of adhesion, which the Allegheny has a lot of due not having that much t.e. in comparison and having a lot of weight on the drivers. So, yeah, calculating a steam locomotive's tractive effore does not include weight.
She may be in good shape, but I don't see it running. Problem is that they had to take down the door to get it in, and they would do the same to get it out. That and the fact of locations the museum could run it, and the weight of the thing.
MrRailroadrunner And also the C&O Allegheney's may be the most powerful locomotives ever built when it comes to horsepower but not in pure tractive effort, that titles goes to the N&W 2156 which is a N&W Y6.
When it comes to titles the list is as followed.
C&O Allegheney: Heaviest steam locomotive ever built, most powerful (horsepower rating) steam locomotive ever built.
Tractive effort: 110,200lbs
Union Pacific Big Boy: Largest steam locomotive ever built.
Tractive effort: 135,375lbs
N&W Y6: Most powerful (tractive effort rating) locomotive ever built.
Tractive effort: 166,000lbs
N&W J Class: Most powerful Northern configuration (4-8-4) locomotive ever built.
Tractive effort: 80,000lbs
+legorailroader844 Well, I guess everyone is an expert on this. First off, I only said it would be interesting to get it running again because it is the most intact and probably easiest to get going. The biggest problem after a restoration would be where would it go? Of course, weight is another problem but I don't see it being an issue if it goes over the same route it came on. That is, unless they downgraded bridges or something. As for "the biggest" I was only talking about horsepower because I didn't want to get into a fight about weight and tractive effort and yadda yadda yadda. You also have to take into account the COMBINED locomotive and tender weight as well as the difference between gross and net weight. Remember, there were two classes of Big Boys and the second class is credited with being heavier and thus the largest engine ever built. Then of course you'd have the Alleghenies and first class of big boys followed by "Yellowstone" type locomotives on DMIR. From there you have to take into account all of the above when it comes to all the other big locos.
True true you have a point, I was only going over the well known ones obviously. It would be nice to see it get going yes but as you said it all falls down to where it would run. Would be cool to see it hauling freight a bit like UP is going to do with 4014 once in awhile once its running.
@@legorailroader844 You missed the PRR Q2 which had a horse power rating at test of just under 8000hp, which is stronger than all others.
The Allegheny also has axle at.s of 86000 ilbs plus&83,000+, bit too much for a lot of r.r.'s bridge axle ratings.B it then again,the big boy of U.P game has pulled excursions in surprising places.
Where's the big boys in the yellow Stones more powerful than the Allegheny
Well it's been proven that a giant locomotive like that can be restored. U.P proved by restoring a big boy, that you need the money, the space and the patience to do it. Many people are saying that none of the Allegheny's would ever run again. I can see #1604 not having that chance. This one which is 1601 is in good enough shape on the outside anyway, it would be a great restoration candidate
The Henry Ford will never give it up and it will never be restored to working condition as the tracks outside are all narrow gauge. When the 601 was brought to the museum it was on specially-laid tracks and under its own power. This said, the Loco is close to running condition now and would do so with a "minor" amount of work. It has been considered and a loco restoration expert estimated a few weeks to make it work again even if it could do with a complete rebuild.
@@detroitboy65 What I'm saying is if CSX was smart enough and developed a steam program, they can buy this engine to restore to operation. They just have to lay down special tracks to get this engine out of the museum. I think Big Boy #4006 would be perfect to put into 1601's place. It just needs cosmetic restoration. What would be great about that is it'll be out of the elements
@@willthetrill4849 I think he was raising the possibility that the locomotive isn't for sale at any price.
Shame you misspelled Allegh”a”ny. You’ve used a Pennsylvania spelling and not the original (for this locomotive) Virginia spelling.
I can't see much, indeed...