Sonic LAB: Yamaha ReFace DX Synth
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2015
- We take a look at the FM Synthesis focussed Reface DX, one of the new Yamaha ReFace range.
its a 4 operator FM synth with 8 voice polyphony, twin effects and a phrase looper. - Наука та технологія
You always bring out the musicality of instruments you review Nick. This thing sounds great. Editing potential is the most exciting after spending head scratching hours in the 80s trying to make something usable on the original DXs.
All the Refaces should have standard Midi connectors and an SD card drive for patch storage.
Great improvements. While we're at it.. wouldn't have to be that much bigger to have full size keys. Would like to see them release these as modules too. the interface/controls and sounds on the refaces are amazing.
They have standard midi through a breakout cable, but yeah...
The connectors mostly aren't a problem as far as it goes... XD
I wish i could save sounds on my CS so bad :,)
Just bought one. This is honestly an amazing synth for the price point. I honestly don’t get why people are so pissed off about it. It’s super convenient and lightweight. Definitely not my desert island synth or anything but then, again if you play synth you should definitely own a full-size keyboard if that’s an issue with it.
I love this man’s brain when it comes to instruction and demo of gear. Thank you Sir.
Really appreciate the separate review. I liked the the initial video as well, I mean Bert is an entertaining presenter for sure, but here I feel I'm getting the objective look that is much more valuable to me as a potential buyer. Thanks!
this was a great review, it's refreshing to see people go beyond the presets and try to push it into different territory. thanks nick.
Wasn't that interested in buying this until you made that lovely drone. Now tempted. Great review as ever.
this actually sounds really good. nice, futuristic, very 'synthy'.
+Jeremy Leaird-Koch Said everyone in the 1980s :)
Dima Parachute Haha, fair point. Regardless, I honestly really like FM, and hear it in a lot of my favorite electronic music. It has the ability to be really punchy in the low end and retain a high-end crispness I appreciate.
+Jeremy Leaird-Koch thats the beauty of the dx it kinda fits into a bit of everythinh even metal
i like fm...amazing basses...ethereal leads...bells...plucks and totally weird drones...awesome!
Before he was famous
Beautiful patching as always... lovely sounding.
Slightly detuned FM pads are my go-to in live's operator and since I'm moving towards a non-laptop setup this is EXACTLY what I needed. Awesome. Gimme gimme.
Just wow. This is the best modern digital emulation I've heard - absolutely beautiful and creamy and dramatic - particularly the expressive parts toward the end. For this price, I'm speechless.
Danny Peculiarbleeps FM synths are all digital lol
Haut Strange there’s also analog FM synthesis, but the synths that can do it don’t focus on just FM
I haven't read through the manual or anything, but on all the original DX synths, it's possible to copy the EG params from one operator to another simply by pressing the write button while editing an EG.
Although it doesn't seem like much, this new synth does do quite a few things that none of the originals could do:
-Each operator now has feedback. This was never possible before, where sometimes only 1-2 had it available, determined by the algorithm.
-Each op has it's own LFO depth amount for pitch. This was also never possible, and it was a global amount for all ops.
-The pitch env, much the same, can be different amounts per op.
-Lastly, MIDI CC is a huge thing for an FM synth. Sysex on the old ones was clunky, and would choke up with the BCR.
We can only hope this is the baby step for a much more fully integrated flagship FM synth in the future.
Cheers, Karl
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Great as always. Seemed very useable when hooked up to that midi controller
By far the best DX video. Thank you!
Awesome overview. You really managed to answer most of my questions and did from many great perspectives. Thank you very much.
such a wonderful little synth with so big sound :)
Picked one of these up for £160 second hand - one of the best bargains I've ever had - gorgeous little machine and pretty easy to programme once you've spent a bit of time with it.
Very good demo and review, I love this channel. Not a machine I could enjoy because of the menu diving, but you got some great sounds out of it nonetheless. A patient enthusiast could weave magic on this thing.
It’s an FM synth what did you expect.
The sound at 15:52 sounds dark, eerie and massive; I love it!
reminds me of ocarina of time's spirit temple
Great review thanks Nick
your videos are a public service - there is so little in the way of thorough technical reviews or demos of music gear. the failure to connect with audience is so endemic in this industry that it's amazing most of these companies can sell anything at all.
Thank you for all the great videos!
surprisingly fun synth to work with. The FM is a refreshing change from subtractive synthesis. The looper is very easy to use, even with its limitations. Just sounds really nice, not a toy!
They should launch it as a module with all encoder knobs as your Behringer controller. So no minikeys and great sound and control.
This review lead to a DX sitting on my desk. Agreed about the presets, but they make it easy to dive into creating your own, or save Soundmondo voices over them. Cheers.
Yes, you can save new sounds. 32 is enough for me. I can save even more on my computer with SysEx Librarian and Soundmondo.
Good review
Thanks. Great vid as ever.
great review, thanks!:)
The Yamaha DX sounds are the sounds of a century.
I love the reface line. they sound great for small keyboards. built solid. the keyboards feel great. and they are PORTABLE!!!!!!!!
I guess I love cheesy fm sounds
There is nothing cheesy about sounds that DX was the only one that made those unique and legendary sounds....Those ballads of the 80's are nearly impossible to find even as VST over the years never would you find those DX sounds and if you find any they were very poor and few.......
So I dont know what is cheesy....
Like tell me Rolls Royce is cheesy because many rich people have it....
What is pretty is pretty..... Even if its over used...
Love those 80s sounds , that electric bass and the super lush Whitney piano sound ,the marimba and the harmonica
Is it just me? This sounds better than all the fm synths out there.
Best synth reviews on YT
amazing
Cheesy? Nah, just warm beautiful sounds 😎. FM is good because its more well rounded than fizzy old analogue which all sounds the same
Thanks for the excellent review (as always) Nick!
Bit of a head scratcher for me is this. I bloody ADORE the sounds. Really, really great tones with no grit or dirt folks say the old machines exhibit. But falls flat on its face for hands on (IMHO), silly not to be able to load old patches, why not a 2-op looper and 2-ops to play over it? Why not save loops per patch and the killer - just 32 patches - eeek!
Can I have a desktop RefaceDX without the KB, usb audio/midi and just built into the BCR please?
Picked up a TX81Z and can see myself sticking with that and a Max editor!
Operator amount be damned.. that sounds pretty badass.
Great demo as always Nick.
Love your idea re: oscillating feedback, algorythms etc... It is indeed a shame they didn't take the opportunity to push the FM barrier a little further out.
Anyway... Am I a little late for a wee moan ?... okay... why the silly midi breakout cable ? So non standard... so if it gets lost/damaged ?
What's wrong with standard midi sockets ?
2019 - $300 in USA. Dealer cost is $159
I used to have a DX27, loved it. But I realised the NI FM8 had all the presets so I sold it. Shame this won't do older presets. Beautiful piece on the loop by the way.
+Alan Angel Same here. Had 4 Yamaha FM synths, sold them all for FM7, later FM8. Was hoping for more from Yamaha
+Stephanie McKeon you shoultve kept at least one of them. none of the fm soft synths have that solid punchy attack like the classic yamahas do. You can get real tight hits at any frequency to layer with audio drum samples. Cuts through any mix so well.
Could you go into a little detail about the connection of the DX with the BCR? Was that particular connection with the controls established by default, or did you have to do settings on the BCR editor? Thanks.
Very curious about this myself. How do you set up the knobs to send whatever specific control message you want?
very nice and fair review! I highly appreciate that Yamaha brings out an FM synth in 2015. Seems to sound very good, the integrated FX are certainly a blessing.
But I'm left wondering why they didn't bring FM to the 21st century with more storeable patches, real midi connections, much more hardware controls, more than 4 operators (the FS1R had 8), more than 8 voices. There would be so many ways to make this an attractive blockbuster.
Like this in the Reface series it's maybe a nice little retro gadget (for FM-novices), but IMO for that price it makes more sense to me to get a TX802 and SY99 together leaving you way more options and gives you access to the many classic patches that Nick talked about. The minikeyboard, that many criticized is not a major issue for me, though.
+Shimanski Beats I don't think I'd want to try editing eight operators on a keyboard of that size. Leave that to a module or something full-sized.
Indeed, for a small piece of gear such as the Reface, it's tricky to integrate an interface for editing 8 ops comfortably. As for the modules, I own the TX802 and the TX81z, and without a software editor, programming is not much fun.
My comment was meant more general on what Yamaha could have done with a new FM synthesizer that builds upon FM state of the art and adds some new developments. Of course, the Reface cannot do that, and was apparently not aimed for this either.
in my opinion they have limited the reface dx mainly for marketing purposes... probably they have a plan to release an advanced FM synth in the future with all the good qualities of the reface dx integrated with all the missing features (8 operators, dx7 retro compatibility, unlimited patches, regular keyboard etc.)
Obviously it will cost more, probably much more...
that's what I'd hope for!
The only reason to buy a vintage synth is if it is purely analog. Why wouldn't you buy this instead of the original? It's digital like the original and is way more user friendly. Also it doesn't smell like mold and it doesn't weigh a ton. If you can't write music with 4 operators, you're making excuses for why you can't make music.
Exactly.
Fuck this. I'd buy the Arturia. Much more modulation and real time manipulation and plenty of people argue that 6-op makes all the difference. That's why the dx-100 isn't highly sought after - its 4-op
@@annother3350 the dx100 is usually more expensive than a dx7. At least here in germany.
@@konradhausmann6359 But doesnt Dx100 have less operators?!
@@annother3350 it was often used by detroit and dub techno artists like Juan Atkins (listen to his song "Urban tropics") and has become a staple. It was also used by Roger troutman for his talkbox sounds, runs on batteries and can be used as a keytar.
Just found this video, and it's pretty amusing that you're using the BCR2000 to control the DX -- I'm currently in the middle of a project to control a YM2612 (six-channel, four-operator FM chip used by the Sega Genesis) using an Arduino, with a gutted BCR2000 interfaced with the arduino as the control interface. with the 4x8 array of knobs, and as many buttons, it's perfect for controlling FM synths! I just wish they still made them; i'm only using mine for this because the mainboard died on it and i intended on just switching it over to an arduino to continue using it for MIDI anyway.
Hey Nick, are you changing cameras from under the desk there? You're editing on the go :)
You guys need to stop complaining and judge it on its own merit, as an excellent sounding, compact synth
at 11:02 what is that sound? like off-key
what is PMD and how can I add on my midi keyboard? help!
The loop you made sounds very Trent Reznor. Especially when it gets detuned
This video makes me glad I held on to my DX200.
Amazing! Could you please share that sysex data dump from the BCR! I want to use the same setup since I own both of em. Thanks in advance, great vid.
nice review and demo - it is a cool unit in a small package
for patches you forgot to mention Soundmondo, a great little iOS app that you can save and load patches from the cloud on the go, perfect for a battery operated synth
no one else is doing that now except for Roland cloud and that's not free like Soundmondo
Can the volume slider act as a mod wheel when sending MIDI?
What happened to the traditional "Nick-Noodle" at the end? Looks really interesting to me as an fm noob, thanks for another top review.
This and a Beatstep Pro would go together a treat.
I want one and already have 100 million FM instruments!
I love it
This sounds nice, and the keyboard actually looks pleasant to use. However, given that the best way to access the FM capabilities in realtime is through another external controller, what can this do that one couldn't do with that same controller, a decent keyboard, and Ableton Operator?
In my opinion they are very expensive and the touch pads are not both fast and precise unlike dials. They could have embedded mod wheel style dials in place of the touch pads which would have made it faster and more precise while giving hardware feedback to the user which is really useful especially if you dont plan on looking at where you are putting your hands. It would have probably been cheaper than the touch pads too.
Great review Nick. yes it is a shame that you can't control the feedback using the pitch EG or the LFO.
i am glad for mine and i think its sound great, but the data sliders is pretty bad, if Yamaha don't bring us a sound editor(for windows) when i will for sure make my own Editor :)
It sounds great. Wish they could release a full size DX synth with more polyphony.
Just run it through a full sized master keyboard. The most important thing is THE SOUND. And Yamaha made FM alot more accessible with the DX. And the bottom and thid gem can put out is awesome. And the sparkle on the higher octaves has no equal. My friend created a choir voice pad on his. And when he added some chorus and a touch of reverb. It's as good as any choir pad in history.
man. you do the best synth reviews on the entire net.
long enough to get through everything that NEEDS to be said and domed but also short enough because you're not fucking about talking bullocks.
do you yourself have your own channel with a review playlist?
I tried sonic state which I dig bit couldn't just get a play list of your reviews.
cheers.
Soundmondo has been out for a while now. Will you do a demo of it Nick? Maybe even try some of my patches. :) Some patches on the site are admittedly pretty bad, though. There was a firmware update that added quantization on the phrase looper. Also for the CS, which also added pitch bend depth control, octave or +2.
Cripes between this and the Roland D-05, I could pair them to an M-Audi 88 and have both the D50 and DX7 library available on a fullsize semi-weighted keyboard with aftertouch - for a fraction of the price of a restored original (which I'd be white knuckling hoping a 35 year old kit didn't fail at the worst possible time).
im starting to think that these reface from Yamaha are flying under the radar.... im very interested with the ambient vibes these guys are putting out
They’re all fantastic.
All are great, the DX is in another category because of its screen allowing for hundreds of things to control versus the others with a few pots and sliders.
A bit off topic, but why is the USB cable gone at 1:41?
(The one connected at the back of the unit)
Will the other 3 units in the series get a review of this style? Mainly interested in the CP and other than non pro user demos/reviews Sonicstate is the only source of unbiased information on these newer synths.
So you don't need a computer to midi map? Would it work with another midi-usb controller? Such as programming reface parameters to my midi fighter twister pots, for example?
After years the reface dx is still one of my favorite synths for warm soothing sounds. Yamaha nailed it. So sad it went with crap touch controls instead of dials.
Can I confirm whether 5:43 was made with the instrument itself, & doesn't require an external sequencer of some kind?
It's ok, I think I've long determined that if I were to get a DX7, I'm going to just plain get a DX7
Where do I get a rotary knob midi controller today?
but what about sync sweeps and self oscilating filters? :P
Sorry for being a newb, but what are external controllers, and how can they interface with the dx? do you have a computer program to do this or is it just plug and play?
That flippin metronome!! I hope its changeable to a click!!
What is the midi connector you have in the video?
Would you choose the Yamaha reface dx or the korg opsix?
Are there any good modular FM modules? Does all the magic come from effortlessly switching between algorithms?
Akemie's Castle
In a world where FM8 is offering an amazing, deep and easy way to program FM synthesis (with 6 operators), unlimited patches, i was expecting from Yamaha something innovative, at least at the control section, to compete with this. The real power of FM showed when Nick hooked that BCR. 32 memories? 8 voice polyphony? 4 operators? No thanks. I'll stick to my DX200 for now...
Yes, vintage patches can be loaded into the Reface DX. For info, go here: refacedx.martintarenskeen.nl/
how did he get the sample and hold pitch on op 3 ? When he was using the bcr controller?
Brian Sansone Assign lfo to op 3 pmod, I would guess.
Fuck yeah. Need it. Thanks.
I've pretty much ordered the DX on the back of this Demo. Couple of things to point out:
i) There are some beautiful Lemur templates being developed that give access to all the parameters (something not possible via midi) for a full hands on tweaking experience that does not compromise an external midi clock... I'm using an alternative MIDI controller via android in this track ( ua-cam.com/video/sUsMAqwgppg/v-deo.html ) but the principle is the same - it's ambient nonsense all the way.
ii) It sends midi clock and can get small drum module ticking (think Volca Beats) and amplify it via its audio input and internal speaker - that's one spectacular mobile combo!
Hey, interested in those Lemur templates
@@elderchildren Hi There, I never got to them (hence the alternative controller and subsequent BCR templates). I'm sure you can still find them on the lemur library.
Mini keys is no problem. The dx100 had mini keys, although it had 4 octaves and more voice banks. Can you dump the voice banks via sysex.
is it possible to record directly on board to say an sd card in like .wav format some something similar?
No it's not.
Has anyone ever made an FM synth with knobs for every parameter? That would be something.
Fredrik W eurorack
"Common FM Synthesizer" app for Android :)
@@davidlewis1787 What modules would you recommend?
Point 45 takemis castle is a great start
There was a hardware knob board for the DX7 back in the day.
if these reface thigums had come in module form then they'd be everywhere.
Around 19:00. Sounds like Vangelis playes a mix of Bladerunner and Christmas songs. lol
Look at that screen! Shame they don't make one that samples like an ASR style synth...
Very dissapointing that you can't load the classic DX patches.. Does it have the classic Basses from the DX built in? Bass 1 & 2 and how accurate is the E Piano to the original?
My understanding is that there is 32 patches. Is there extra slots for user patches or do you just override the ones the board comes with. Also I'm guessing Yamaha has them for download on their site perhaps in case you want them back? This thing sound really cool, but I would need to wait for some sort of sale. 500$ is a little much in the states, but I actually like the concept of these.
+Markus Cone yes only 32 patches, no user patches, you don't have to download the original sound, you can always recall it, no software yet to save your own sound onto an external device.
only 32 patches, but you can save the original ones on a web site (soundmondo) or on a iphone and overwrite them on the reface dx , so actually you have 32 patches free to initialize and recreate. You can also load patches from the soundmondo site, patches created by people who decided to made them avaible for free downloading.
Not the best solution (saving to an external sd card would have been much better, and not difficult to implement) but stll better than the other reface models, which have no patches st all....
Sounds and looks a lot like my an1x
I bought one a couple of years ago but I'm not getting much out of it tbh. I am not a tech person at all and won't be connecting it to anything. Thanks for explaining what it is capable of. I probably should have just bought an old DX7.
Goddamn man where do I get it in Canada? I'm bloody sold!
How much and where to get it please, a checked out at local guitar center and they don't have it
Google
I am curious to know what sort of external MIDI controller is being used. I have not used one with my own synths and wanted to know specific devices that can be used.
Dtronics DT-RDX-V2
Would be interested in trying this with my octatrack using the LFO's and assignable knobs and sequencer... might have to find one :D (nice review as always)
I still own a Fully Operational DX21 that a Pal found in a skip in 1993 and sold to me for £29. The ReFace looks/sounds pretty cool but it doesn't sound as gritty and dirty as the older DX's.
WHAT is so F-ing difficult about making a keyboard with a standard MIDI I/O/THRU ? Such a basic feature to be missing from so much of the stuff being made these days.
MrFrankthefink exactly! It's just 2 extra MIDI ports and a DAC. How hard can that be?
Though, this is a small keyboard series.
Most probably that were decisions made in the marketing department - which made the guys from R&D go facepalm as much as us customers. They don't want to make the affordable devices too good and useful because then less people will buy the more expensive stuff.
The one thing keeping me from buying them tbh
There was not enough room on the inside.
MrFrankthefink BECAUSE BUDGET SYNTH.
Anyone throwing a hissy fit over the mini keys needs to swallow that pill that this is not a DX7 homage. The DX7 was 6 operators and had 16 voice polyphony. the Reface has 4 operators and 8 voices.
Say, you know what DX had 4 operators AND had mini keys AND 8 voice polyphony?!
You guessed it, the DX100!!
i have played on all of them. every single one of them are really cool and sound good. with that being said i still think the price is not justified.
I would agree slightly for the other 3, but with the screen on this and only this, its many times, maybe hundreds of times deeper than the others and a huge bang for buck, not overpriced at all.
Seeing as I have a midi keyboard is there any particular reason to get this over say a Volca FM?
+sounds better - doesn't load DX patched. Volca does
If you have a midi keyboard already, then just grab an old iPad 2 or above and get yourself a copy of KQDixie for about $3. Full screen editing, 16 part multi-timbrality and original DX 7 patch loading. It's truly awesome for the money!