Well it lead to a smaller scope project and thus not meeting expectations of backers who at least wished 1 extra full campaign. Assuming in the future Awaken Realms want to do projects that they can fulfill in a reasonable amount of time (though so far I have had no issues with their past project timelines even if always choosing single wave where able to.)
It feels a bit weird to hear this kind of criticism about Kings of Ruin specifically, if you've been following the campaign. Awaken Realms has been hit with a LOT of negative feedback throughout the project precisely *because* KoR is a modest-sized expansion, and AR has resisted increasing the scope so as to hit delivery estimates. They managed to deliver the 3+ Avalon campaigns in 11 months, so 14 months for one standalone expansion seems pretty darn...reasonable? All the points about FOMO and asking whether you need *another* campaign game are good consumer advice for sure. Just a bit odd that a lot of heat Awaken Realms has faced over Kings of Ruin stems from trying to avoid a lot of the issues brought up in this video.
Man, I really wish Etherfields had been more your cup of tea. I'm playing tomorrow and I've been looking forward to it all week. Each dream feels VERY different. The characters are starting to become so unique as their deck changes, the bits of story mixed with dreaminess is so my style. I can't want to try the next dream!
Man, I love your videos. Your delivery and style reminds me a lot of Jim Rome, the sports broadcaster. For me, that's a good thing. Can't wait to see more. Thank you.
Agree with this 100%. And yet, I’m very tempted to FOMO late pledge for ISS Vanguard. I can’t get over the binder and ship phase of the game. At the very least, the game will be unique and unlike anything else in my collection. 😅
One mistake that needs to be corrected: the new campaign is one wave only. So no, getting KoR and/or FoA will not take 3 years this time. The whole campaign revolves around the idea of getting your stuff as early as possible. So it has to be taken into account. It seems that your projection is based on the previous campaigns, not on the specifics of this one. Does seem like a detail but many of your arguments are based on that. For the rest of it, it does make sense. Even though you seem to consider the 2 games as one and the same. KoR is different enough from FoA not to treat them as one in terms of pros and cons. What is true for one isn't necessarily true for the other.
We own This War of Mine (presently for Sale) and backed ISS Vanguard (1 Wave shipping) Were working our way through Sleeping Gods. For us its about, playing through what campaign games we have and making sure other content arrives as we finish off the campaign games.
Thank you for this and some very good points. I have been on the fence the entire campaign and I think I will be passing for now. There will always be another!
Im at the Core Pledge. I don't have Tainted Grail, I don't have 7th Continent and don't have any other Card exploration dungeon Crawler. Im playing ISS Vanguard and the production quality and everything else led me to trust AW again. Especially since VAT and Taxes are included here.
Wow! Now this is the kind of review/perspective I needed!! I’ve already went ALL-IN with Dungeon Universalis, planning to back Oathsworn and Sleeping Gods Skies, and Tainted Kings of Ruin. I’m new to TG, btw, and I don’t find these “weird” characters compelling, I heard the puzzle combat was not exciting, and the story is just OK but I’m so afraid of missing out!! 🤬 I backed Robinson Caruso due in February/March. I own Folklore and never finished. Do I really need Oathsworn and KOR? Is Oathsworn really that mind blowing?? My gut’s been telling me DUN and RC is all the campaign/story game I’ll need in the next year or so. Great content 🍻
I like these videos. I enjoy Tainted Grail and have the original, so of course I'm backing Kings of Ruin. For a new person this video is probably really helpful. I find these videos interesting to watch.
I thought you said Awaken Realms had the best core pledge around for value? Also, aren't all of Awakened Realms games predominantly narrative based? I would think if that's a persons genera then you're going to get them all for story? Still I liked hearing the "warning" but I think for $99 dollars it's worth it, even if it sat on my shelf for a year. A good story is hard to get right, and I definitely gravitate to more than just mechanics. Appreciate the video.
I think the criticism about scope creep really doesn't apply. Some backers are even complaining in over-the-top style that there's no scope creep. They're doing one campaign and one other mode, it's not too much. I think it should not be as successful, still. Imo, people should get the original tainted grail (and simply use the lighter resource mode ALREADY in the rules!) if they haven't gotten it yet. The only people that should back this is people done with Tainted grail by the time Kings of Ruin comes out.
There so much more that is broken in the game, the initial light resource approach cannot address how much needs to be house ruled to make the game work, and to avoid breaking the resource economy of the game.
@@bennoblaschke1169 I really don't agree. I initially bounced off it too, but played it fully this year. It did not feel broken to me at all, and was perfectly playable and fun to do so too, enough to do multiple campaigns of it. The complaints feel somewhat overblown to me.
See my posts and discussions on BGG. The game only works if you stay within the bounds of “playing as if you don’t know how to optimise” and then only if you are willing to accept and can tolerate its flaws. You may have a high tolerance for poor game design, but I stand by my point that even though it may be ‘playable’ it does so while looking poor compared to alternatives and I have no time in life for mediocre games with poor design where it is obvious the designers haven’t play tested the game properly. If you can close your eyes to all the flaws, sure it’s passable. In the face of an abundance of excellent games, I have no time or patience for this.
Did not like the card mechanic in the first game so this is an easy pass. It’s different sure but for me it’s totally boring lining up card icons deciding what card to use. Just give me some dice to throw.
So torn on this. I want it for the art and lore (if it exists) but i am unlikely to ever play a game of it. Maybe i should get the artbook and adventure journal.
I've noticed most games come into a spot where I want to purchase them(2.0), 3-ish years after they end their first Kickstarter campaign. For the most part newly delivered Kickstarter boardgames are not worth my time. Most need fixing and a reprint for me personally. I'm just gonna stop buying any game that hasn't been out for three years(Kickstarter only). Problem solved. With video games it's shorter, around 1 year after release a game is usually finished and that's when I purchase at half price. Less is more.
I do not own any Awaken Realms games but have been lucky enough to play with copies I have been able to borrow from friends. After playing Eitherfields and Tainted Grail, I am happy to borrow the games and not own them myself. I liked the Etherfields dream stories but not the mechanics of the game. I also liked the Tainted Grail story but not the game and I found the rules difficult to understand and spent a ton of time referring to forums for rule questions. I personally hate having to house-rule a game especially if I spent $100+ for an out-of-the-box experience that I then need to tweak just to enjoy. That is a recipe for a game that gets sold. Also, given how long the Awake Realms games take to develop and produce, I expected better. I agree with you about not FOMO'ing a game. The wait times are a bit crazy and a sure way to turn me off is to tell me that a game will not ship for two years. I am instantly not back because this tells me that the game is not even flushed out enough to be manufactured. You are also correct, people may have already backed really big campaign games like Aeon Trespass: Odyssey, Arydia: The Paths We Dare Tread or even Frosthaven. Not sure how people keep collecting these massive 100hr+ games when one of them is difficult to table. I personally love narrative games, but, I only love them playing solo. I love Middara and it says right in the title "The Story-Driven Tactics Board Game". A pick-your-adventure board game with a good narrative and good gameplay is exactly what I like --- as long as I am playing solo. I do not mind managing multiple characters, Sleeping Gods comes to mind, but I find it more annoying when I am playing as a group as most of my group is to lazy to learn the rules well (except for my brother who seems to commit all the rules to memory). I find narrative games with a group very slow. I also rather play a role-playing game if playing in a group. For a board game, I rather play a game that has a lot of action and interaction to keep the downtime low and everyone involved. I hope people committing to these games truely love them because otherwise there is a lot of wasted money and time that could be given to smaller games and publisher/creators who may even given you a far more enjoyable time.
I would LOVE to play a narrative exploration game like this but the playthrough videos I've seen show a significant amount of time being spent on resolving encounters that seem long, frustrating, and kinda boring. Everything else looks amazing though and for $99 you could do a lot worse these days lol. I kinda wish I could convince myself to get over the combat/diplomacy card play but it just doesnt look like anything I could enjoy spending more than 25% of the time doing.
Chris, Chris, Chris....we all know that this is the best writing that has ever existed in the history of mankind. That was established by a legitimate reviewer. We should buy this just to read it, forget playing it, lol Seriously though, I'm with you on the upgrade kit being so far out as an annoyance. I want to play through this with the updated rules while waiting for the new content to be made but will have to wait for it all to come in at the same time and defeat the purpose. I've heard it suggested to play just using the story mode rules but if the new updates are barely changed from those rules, what is the point
I’m skipping it as badly as I want it. Haven’t got my jaws of lion done yet so I know this will not get played forever. I hype out on this type of stuff but it’s the smaller more easy to table games that mostly get played over and over than a 40 hour adventure.
I think the core pledge is a great back if you have no TG - shipping is very reasonable - Offload if don't like - If tying X dollars up for Y months is a problem - then you shouldn't be backing at all . Given my currency has tanked - easier to turn down many KS - buying local on discounts on old stock - proven games - These games should generate great social occasions - You want a solo campaign lots of great games and mods , addons in Video games - no need hassle of set up - plus their lots of great small solo tactile games - or other great solo tactile activities . Then again do as you want - I think TG2 is a fairly proven product - good price at core - maybe you are better off selling a campaign you haven't tabled and unlikely to table to fund this
I have Adriya, Vanguard and GI Joe coming. I don't need another campaign game; I have enough to last my entire life. And I watched what Tainted Grail was about when it first came out and the mechanics were not my cop of tea. The story was 'okay' but I easily passed on this as well.
There’s no split shipment on this one. It sounds like maybe Awaken Realms is done with that practice for good. I’m not that interested in the 2.0 Avalon, for pretty much all the reasons you gave. Just not sure what we will be getting from that. But I think I am in for a base pledge on KOR. Demo playthroughs have all remarked on how much of the grind it has fixed from Avalon. It may lose some of the market that really liked that part but that gets my attention. The only issue I have is too many campaign games, not way too many in my case but still I probably need to figure out what I am replacing before I take on a new one - especially with the Oathsworn reprint coming up this week.
I think you're "on the money" with your Etherfields commentary. The 2.0 changes were hotly debated whether they even represented an improvement. Don't forget AR already went thru this "we hear you and we'll fix it" with the original Tainted Grail and promised improvements for the stretch goal campaigns. People complained that the mehirs were too much of a grind and combat became too easy after you leveled up late in the campaign. The resulting SG campaigns were terribly unbalanced and combat was way too difficult. Hard pass for me on their Tainted Grail 2.0 upgrade. I'll likely pass on KoR too. I thought Tainted Grail was good, but not great. I probably don't need more of it.
im avoiding it. the minis look really really nice but it aint a minis game, and other things that im going to get other games that i dont need this one for sure.
With Oathsworn and Middara on my shelf, and Sleeping Gods on the way, I really don't need another big campaign game right. That's the main reason I'm holding off.
Whoops. Missed the obvious that THANKFULLY only 1 wave shipping. Sorry about that!
Well it lead to a smaller scope project and thus not meeting expectations of backers who at least wished 1 extra full campaign. Assuming in the future Awaken Realms want to do projects that they can fulfill in a reasonable amount of time (though so far I have had no issues with their past project timelines even if always choosing single wave where able to.)
It feels a bit weird to hear this kind of criticism about Kings of Ruin specifically, if you've been following the campaign. Awaken Realms has been hit with a LOT of negative feedback throughout the project precisely *because* KoR is a modest-sized expansion, and AR has resisted increasing the scope so as to hit delivery estimates. They managed to deliver the 3+ Avalon campaigns in 11 months, so 14 months for one standalone expansion seems pretty darn...reasonable?
All the points about FOMO and asking whether you need *another* campaign game are good consumer advice for sure. Just a bit odd that a lot of heat Awaken Realms has faced over Kings of Ruin stems from trying to avoid a lot of the issues brought up in this video.
Watch Game Brigade’s review of Kings of Ruin. That’ll outline the issues that remain and have not been addressed from previous versions.
Man, I really wish Etherfields had been more your cup of tea. I'm playing tomorrow and I've been looking forward to it all week. Each dream feels VERY different. The characters are starting to become so unique as their deck changes, the bits of story mixed with dreaminess is so my style. I can't want to try the next dream!
I also think that the updates to etherfields really made the dream map so much better
I just tried Etherfields the other day and really liked it. I feel like the hate it gets is unwarranted. Especially with changed they've incorporated.
Just to clear something up, there are no two waves in this campaign. Everything is getting shipped at the same time.
My thought as well. This is single wave only.
Man, I love your videos.
Your delivery and style reminds me a lot of Jim Rome, the sports broadcaster.
For me, that's a good thing.
Can't wait to see more.
Thank you.
Agree with this 100%.
And yet, I’m very tempted to FOMO late pledge for ISS Vanguard. I can’t get over the binder and ship phase of the game. At the very least, the game will be unique and unlike anything else in my collection. 😅
I am not in love with it. I am going to marry it. I just hope the game won't file for a divorce.
One mistake that needs to be corrected: the new campaign is one wave only. So no, getting KoR and/or FoA will not take 3 years this time. The whole campaign revolves around the idea of getting your stuff as early as possible. So it has to be taken into account.
It seems that your projection is based on the previous campaigns, not on the specifics of this one.
Does seem like a detail but many of your arguments are based on that.
For the rest of it, it does make sense. Even though you seem to consider the 2 games as one and the same. KoR is different enough from FoA not to treat them as one in terms of pros and cons. What is true for one isn't necessarily true for the other.
I like this anti hype series. Hopefully you continue.
I'm a fan of the original, but I still love a good dose of reality. Nice vid, Chris!
We own This War of Mine (presently for Sale) and backed ISS Vanguard (1 Wave shipping) Were working our way through Sleeping Gods. For us its about, playing through what campaign games we have and making sure other content arrives as we finish off the campaign games.
Thank you for this and some very good points. I have been on the fence the entire campaign and I think I will be passing for now. There will always be another!
Im at the Core Pledge. I don't have Tainted Grail, I don't have 7th Continent and don't have any other Card exploration dungeon Crawler.
Im playing ISS Vanguard and the production quality and everything else led me to trust AW again. Especially since VAT and Taxes are included here.
Wow! Now this is the kind of review/perspective I needed!! I’ve already went ALL-IN with Dungeon Universalis, planning to back Oathsworn and Sleeping Gods Skies, and Tainted Kings of Ruin. I’m new to TG, btw, and I don’t find these “weird” characters compelling, I heard the puzzle combat was not exciting, and the story is just OK but I’m so afraid of missing out!! 🤬 I backed Robinson Caruso due in February/March. I own Folklore and never finished. Do I really need Oathsworn and KOR? Is Oathsworn really that mind blowing?? My gut’s been telling me DUN and RC is all the campaign/story game I’ll need in the next year or so. Great content 🍻
No idea who I would get to play this with me so an easy pass for me. But I appreciate your emphasis on avoiding the FOMO.
I like these videos. I enjoy Tainted Grail and have the original, so of course I'm backing Kings of Ruin. For a new person this video is probably really helpful. I find these videos interesting to watch.
There is no multiwave shipping with Kings of Ruin. Single wave for everything.
Love this anti hype video, hope you start doing way more of those. We have too many fake hype videos when it comes to this hobby
I thought you said Awaken Realms had the best core pledge around for value? Also, aren't all of Awakened Realms games predominantly narrative based? I would think if that's a persons genera then you're going to get them all for story? Still I liked hearing the "warning" but I think for $99 dollars it's worth it, even if it sat on my shelf for a year. A good story is hard to get right, and I definitely gravitate to more than just mechanics. Appreciate the video.
this was EXTREMELY helpful! thank you :)
I think the criticism about scope creep really doesn't apply. Some backers are even complaining in over-the-top style that there's no scope creep. They're doing one campaign and one other mode, it's not too much.
I think it should not be as successful, still. Imo, people should get the original tainted grail (and simply use the lighter resource mode ALREADY in the rules!) if they haven't gotten it yet. The only people that should back this is people done with Tainted grail by the time Kings of Ruin comes out.
There so much more that is broken in the game, the initial light resource approach cannot address how much needs to be house ruled to make the game work, and to avoid breaking the resource economy of the game.
@@bennoblaschke1169 I really don't agree. I initially bounced off it too, but played it fully this year. It did not feel broken to me at all, and was perfectly playable and fun to do so too, enough to do multiple campaigns of it. The complaints feel somewhat overblown to me.
See my posts and discussions on BGG. The game only works if you stay within the bounds of “playing as if you don’t know how to optimise” and then only if you are willing to accept and can tolerate its flaws. You may have a high tolerance for poor game design, but I stand by my point that even though it may be ‘playable’ it does so while looking poor compared to alternatives and I have no time in life for mediocre games with poor design where it is obvious the designers haven’t play tested the game properly. If you can close your eyes to all the flaws, sure it’s passable. In the face of an abundance of excellent games, I have no time or patience for this.
Great video and 100% agree.
Did not like the card mechanic in the first game so this is an easy pass.
It’s different sure but for me it’s totally boring lining up card icons deciding what card to use. Just give me some dice to throw.
So torn on this. I want it for the art and lore (if it exists) but i am unlikely to ever play a game of it. Maybe i should get the artbook and adventure journal.
I've noticed most games come into a spot where I want to purchase them(2.0), 3-ish years after they end their first Kickstarter campaign. For the most part newly delivered Kickstarter boardgames are not worth my time. Most need fixing and a reprint for me personally. I'm just gonna stop buying any game that hasn't been out for three years(Kickstarter only). Problem solved. With video games it's shorter, around 1 year after release a game is usually finished and that's when I purchase at half price. Less is more.
I do not own any Awaken Realms games but have been lucky enough to play with copies I have been able to borrow from friends. After playing Eitherfields and Tainted Grail, I am happy to borrow the games and not own them myself. I liked the Etherfields dream stories but not the mechanics of the game. I also liked the Tainted Grail story but not the game and I found the rules difficult to understand and spent a ton of time referring to forums for rule questions. I personally hate having to house-rule a game especially if I spent $100+ for an out-of-the-box experience that I then need to tweak just to enjoy. That is a recipe for a game that gets sold. Also, given how long the Awake Realms games take to develop and produce, I expected better.
I agree with you about not FOMO'ing a game. The wait times are a bit crazy and a sure way to turn me off is to tell me that a game will not ship for two years. I am instantly not back because this tells me that the game is not even flushed out enough to be manufactured. You are also correct, people may have already backed really big campaign games like Aeon Trespass: Odyssey, Arydia: The Paths We Dare Tread or even Frosthaven. Not sure how people keep collecting these massive 100hr+ games when one of them is difficult to table.
I personally love narrative games, but, I only love them playing solo. I love Middara and it says right in the title "The Story-Driven Tactics Board Game". A pick-your-adventure board game with a good narrative and good gameplay is exactly what I like --- as long as I am playing solo. I do not mind managing multiple characters, Sleeping Gods comes to mind, but I find it more annoying when I am playing as a group as most of my group is to lazy to learn the rules well (except for my brother who seems to commit all the rules to memory). I find narrative games with a group very slow. I also rather play a role-playing game if playing in a group. For a board game, I rather play a game that has a lot of action and interaction to keep the downtime low and everyone involved.
I hope people committing to these games truely love them because otherwise there is a lot of wasted money and time that could be given to smaller games and publisher/creators who may even given you a far more enjoyable time.
I would LOVE to play a narrative exploration game like this but the playthrough videos I've seen show a significant amount of time being spent on resolving encounters that seem long, frustrating, and kinda boring. Everything else looks amazing though and for $99 you could do a lot worse these days lol. I kinda wish I could convince myself to get over the combat/diplomacy card play but it just doesnt look like anything I could enjoy spending more than 25% of the time doing.
Love that video, thanks a lot!!
Chris, Chris, Chris....we all know that this is the best writing that has ever existed in the history of mankind. That was established by a legitimate reviewer. We should buy this just to read it, forget playing it, lol
Seriously though, I'm with you on the upgrade kit being so far out as an annoyance. I want to play through this with the updated rules while waiting for the new content to be made but will have to wait for it all to come in at the same time and defeat the purpose.
I've heard it suggested to play just using the story mode rules but if the new updates are barely changed from those rules, what is the point
Th he writing is comparatively poor to competitors. Look for example to Oathsworn. The writing (and voice acting) puts Tainted Grail to shame.
I’m skipping it as badly as I want it. Haven’t got my jaws of lion done yet so I know this will not get played forever. I hype out on this type of stuff but it’s the smaller more easy to table games that mostly get played over and over than a 40 hour adventure.
I've been looking at Kingdoms Forlorn you might have just talked me out of backing it. Thanks.
I think the core pledge is a great back if you have no TG - shipping is very reasonable - Offload if don't like - If tying X dollars up for Y months is a problem - then you shouldn't be backing at all . Given my currency has tanked - easier to turn down many KS - buying local on discounts on old stock - proven games - These games should generate great social occasions - You want a solo campaign lots of great games and mods , addons in Video games - no need hassle of set up - plus their lots of great small solo tactile games - or other great solo tactile activities . Then again do as you want - I think TG2 is a fairly proven product - good price at core - maybe you are better off selling a campaign you haven't tabled and unlikely to table to fund this
I have Adriya, Vanguard and GI Joe coming. I don't need another campaign game; I have enough to last my entire life. And I watched what Tainted Grail was about when it first came out and the mechanics were not my cop of tea. The story was 'okay' but I easily passed on this as well.
Yo! What’s that re:act game back there lemme see!
😁 glad someone noticed.
There’s no split shipment on this one. It sounds like maybe Awaken Realms is done with that practice for good.
I’m not that interested in the 2.0 Avalon, for pretty much all the reasons you gave. Just not sure what we will be getting from that.
But I think I am in for a base pledge on KOR. Demo playthroughs have all remarked on how much of the grind it has fixed from Avalon. It may lose some of the market that really liked that part but that gets my attention. The only issue I have is too many campaign games, not way too many in my case but still I probably need to figure out what I am replacing before I take on a new one - especially with the Oathsworn reprint coming up this week.
Did you cave, or did your angst beat the FOMO?
No FOMO and no angst! And no game! 😂
Good man, well done!
Urgh no I'm in 2 minds... I already have Kingdoms Forlorn coming in 2024, so not sure if a similar kind of game will be necessary
Great points
I think you're "on the money" with your Etherfields commentary. The 2.0 changes were hotly debated whether they even represented an improvement. Don't forget AR already went thru this "we hear you and we'll fix it" with the original Tainted Grail and promised improvements for the stretch goal campaigns. People complained that the mehirs were too much of a grind and combat became too easy after you leveled up late in the campaign. The resulting SG campaigns were terribly unbalanced and combat was way too difficult. Hard pass for me on their Tainted Grail 2.0 upgrade. I'll likely pass on KoR too. I thought Tainted Grail was good, but not great. I probably don't need more of it.
im avoiding it. the minis look really really nice but it aint a minis game, and other things that im going to get other games that i dont need this one for sure.
With Oathsworn and Middara on my shelf, and Sleeping Gods on the way, I really don't need another big campaign game right. That's the main reason I'm holding off.
The mini’s are cool but the gameplay isnt my thing.
But the minis...
what the fuck is LFQ?
Money isn't real