Proto-Indo-European (with Dr. Anthony D. Yates)

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  • Опубліковано 7 чер 2024
  • Dr. Tony Yates (UCLA) answers questions about Proto-Indo-European and early Indo-European languages from Patreon supporters of Dr. Jackson Crawford (University of Colorado) in a Patreon-exclusive Crowdcast conversation recorded January 9, 2020. See more of Dr. Yates' work at www.adyates.com/
    Jackson Crawford, Ph.D.: Sharing real expertise in Norse language and myth with people hungry to learn, free of both ivory tower elitism and the agendas of self-appointed gurus. Visit JacksonWCrawford.com (includes bio and linked list of all videos).
    Jackson Crawford’s translation of Hávamál, with complete Old Norse text: www.hackettpublishing.com/the...
    Jackson Crawford’s translation of The Poetic Edda: www.hackettpublishing.com/the...
    Audiobook: www.audible.com/pd/The-Poetic...
    Jackson Crawford’s translation of The Saga of the Volsungs: www.hackettpublishing.com/the...
    Audiobook: www.audible.com/pd/The-Saga-o...
    Latest FAQs: vimeo.com/375149287 (updated Nov. 2019).
    Jackson Crawford’s Patreon page: / norsebysw
    Music © I See Hawks in L.A., courtesy of the artist. Visit www.iseehawks.com/
    Logos by Elizabeth Porter (snowbringer at gmail).

КОМЕНТАРІ • 146

  • @lunetelalune2783
    @lunetelalune2783 4 роки тому +143

    Lovely! Two handsome scholars discussing historical linguistics. Thanks guys!

    • @nneichan9353
      @nneichan9353 4 роки тому +16

      They really light up discussing their favorite subjects!

    • @ghenulo
      @ghenulo 3 роки тому +5

      Ah, I'm not the only one who noticed? I've thought Jackson handsome, but Tony... wow!

    • @ghenulo
      @ghenulo 3 роки тому +3

      @@tommytowner792 Their handsomeness is what draws you into actually watching the video. Would someone actually watch a 73-minute video in which the participants weren't?

    • @TP-om8of
      @TP-om8of 2 роки тому +4

      I’m better looking than both of them put together. That’s why chicks dig me so much.

    • @josephang9927
      @josephang9927 2 роки тому

      One shot in life and looking average 😔
      DELET THIS

  • @andabata43
    @andabata43 4 роки тому +12

    Dr Crawford - Would greatly appreciate if you would do a video about what is known of the substrate language that Indo-European speakers encountered when they first settled in the Proto-Germanic Baltic area. I have heard snippets on this subject, but a current, unified presentation would be very informative. Thanks.

    • @Asteptillustration89
      @Asteptillustration89 2 роки тому +3

      What I find interesting is that the finnish language borrowed terminology from Germanic languages ( when all the Germanic languages were at its infancy in the proto Germanic stage such as a word "kunigaz" for King.

  • @vladfingers5823
    @vladfingers5823 Рік тому

    Greatttt ! Please do more of these IE discussions. This is the sort of material that is very much needed nowdays. I would like to see also some discussions on great scholars, their working habits, their abilities. It motivates us to increase our reading/learning pace. Like someone who met Calvert Watkins could tell us how much was he reading, how was he taking his notes, how much poetry did he learn by heart, so on... Just some ideas. Thank you very much for all the qualitative content you are producing.

  • @elizabethford7263
    @elizabethford7263 2 роки тому +5

    I thought I was a nerd but I've never written poetry in Luwian hieroglyphics....

  • @digitalbrentable
    @digitalbrentable 4 роки тому +67

    Cheating on a boardgame: Odin would smile on that, I reckon

    • @indrajitgupta3280
      @indrajitgupta3280 2 роки тому

      So would Shakuni Mama. I'm not implying he cheated; as a survivor (his 'back-story' is chilling), he would have relished the event.

    • @spoonysmalls
      @spoonysmalls Рік тому

      If you're not cheating, you're not trying+

  • @kena3234
    @kena3234 4 роки тому +7

    Love watching smart people talk to each other. Anyone know anything else like this let me know

    • @dogodomo3998
      @dogodomo3998 3 роки тому +3

      You can watch podcasts on UA-cam by Luke (Scorpius Martianus), who teaches Latin and Ancient Greek, speaking with linguists about a wide range of topics and it's extremely interesting.

  • @bartholomewschumacher1776
    @bartholomewschumacher1776 3 роки тому +1

    Thank you two for being open minded about this subject. The old saying about about the carrot, varied the subject lead belong to the science.

  • @TheBcambron
    @TheBcambron 3 роки тому +12

    Oh, do I enjoy listening to converse of individuals who struggle to consolidate their brilliant thoughts into simple linear human language.

  • @eruantien9932
    @eruantien9932 4 роки тому +13

    On the Etruscan thing, my understanding is that Etruscan comes from the Latin "Etruscī" (also "Tuscī", which becomes Toscana/Tuscany), which itself may come from the Attic "Turrhēnoi"/"Tursēnoi". The Etruscan name for themselves is supposedly "Rasenna" (syncopated to "Rasna" and/or "Raśna"), which really doesn't have anything to do with Troy. It's possible that the Tursēnoi term comes from some early syncretism of the stories of people evacuating the city we call Troy with the people that lived in northern Italy (maybe there was "Trojan" influence on some cultural aspect of the Etruscans, which early Greek settlers recognised from stories of Troy, and so just assumed the Etruscans were Trojans. Similar to how the Romans thought that all the Greek colonies were from Graia for a while).

  • @dulmater
    @dulmater 3 роки тому +10

    I think the best example of adding endings to words that I can think of is modern Canadian hockey slang. The "sky" and "y" suffix is added to a large amount of words. Etc. "brewsky" = brew or beer, "footy" = football/soccer. It wouldn't be surprising at all if a group of closely bonded males took over an area that their slang version of their home language may become normal grammatical rules over time.

  • @piercesmith1465
    @piercesmith1465 4 роки тому +1

    Have you guys heard about Robin Bradley Kar's Eastern Iran-Bactria-Indus Valley Thesis? His article in U. Ill. L. Rev. about it was a really interesting break from legal reading for me.

    • @ngmhere1234
      @ngmhere1234 3 роки тому +1

      Could you provide a link for this please?

  • @vineshgujral686
    @vineshgujral686 3 роки тому +1

    Is that a Bob Bakker drawing behind Jackson Crawford?

  • @jglammi
    @jglammi 2 роки тому +1

    speaking of education in Indo-european:
    Raimo Aulis Anttila was born in Finland in 1935. He was Professor of Comparative Linguistics at the University of Helsinki from 1971 to 1976. He was appointed Professor of Indo-European Linguistics at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA) in 1976. Anttila is also an authority on Finno-Ugric languages. Along with Marija Gimbutas and Edgar C. Polomé and Roger Pearson, Anttila was a co-founder of the Journal of Indo-European Studies, and was a member of its Editorial Committee in the 1970s. Anttila was elected a Corresponding Member of the Finnish Academy of Science and Letters in 1995. Anttila has now retired from UCLA as Professor Emeritus.
    He was fascinating

  • @corresandberg
    @corresandberg 4 роки тому +2

    A question to Jackson, how was Old Norse and Swedish developed. From germanic languages or by it's own and then got mixed over time? DNA-wise a lot of Swedish people have ancestors from the Black Sea area. Did they independently brought early Norse with them? And can one see similarities with Norse runes and old scripts around the Mediterranean?

    • @nthavotelcam4112
      @nthavotelcam4112 4 роки тому +1

      Swedish comes from Old Norse. The connection between Runes and the Mediterranean scripts is that the Runes came from them. Runes are believed to have come from a Version of the Etruscan alphabet or Early Latin alphabets since I noticed that similarity myself too.

  • @gergelybakos2159
    @gergelybakos2159 Рік тому +2

    Great dialogue on fascinating topics--with regrettable sound quality.

  • @gnarzikans
    @gnarzikans 3 роки тому +8

    the hittite laws that criminalise bestiality, except with horses and mules: VIII Sexual relationships - HURKEL: clauses 187 - 200

  • @walterschule2941
    @walterschule2941 2 роки тому +3

    Nice discussion and I follow Jackson Crawford since a longer time. Always nice videos. But just one annotation about the "wine-word": Is it really sure, that "wine" is a word of Indo-European origin? Due to the origin of the wine-grapes in the Southern Caucasus-area, we should respect the possibility, that it's a word from the Kartvelian or another Caucasian language-family. Due to the small geographic distance between Southern Caucasus and the two most possible Urheimats of the IE-language (southern Ukraine or Anatolia) the "wine"-word could also be a very early loan-word, the Indo-Europeans used. This would explain why the wine-word is so similar in many IE-language, as well as in Georgian (Kartvelian family), where it's ღვინო (ghvino) (by the way, it could also be a re-import of a word into Kartvelian via for example Iranian languages which had a strong influence upan the Kartvelians since early antiquity).
    In case that "wine" was a loan-word in early IE, which was known by trade with other language-families, the Anatolian hypothesis would be weakened. The word could be gained via trade and wouldn't mean that wine was produced in their urheimat. A culture that knows pottery can conserve and transport wine easy enough to know it as a trading-good. The geographical distance between the Caucasus and Southern Ukraine would be close enough for a trading-line during this era. My personal proposal for a historical trading-line from Southern Caucasus to the North of Black Sea which seems plausible for Neolithic/early-antiquity era would be: From the West of present-day Georgia (Colkhis in antiquity), you pass the Street of Gagra to avoid the barrier of the Greater Caucasus and follow North-West along the shores till to the Taman-Penninsula. Crossing the Street of Kerch (4 km in our time) seems to be possible even with the nautical knowledge of these very early times. Than you arrive the Crimean, which was probably settled by members of the Yamna-Culture. So, a trading-route between present-day Western-Georgia to the Crimean would have a distance of 600-700 km without serious barriers which would hinder a trading-route during this era.
    My further suggestion is, that the earliest aedvances of IE were towards the South along the Eastern shore of the Black Sea, due to the attractiveness of the land there: Present-day Georgia had a well-developped agriculture, stripes of fertile land, an incredible density of metals and a high geographic value because the land along the eastern shore of the Black Sea was suitable for trading-lanes. This makes it plausible that IE had very early access to present-Day Western Georgia, especially the very thin but geographically important stripe along the Street of Gagra, gained by negotiations or violence. But: The mountains eastwards of this trading-lane are not very attractive for settlements. So, if the IE gained access to this area, they had probably just control over a very thin stripe along the shores, while the harsh and hard to control inland remained under control of proto-Kartvelian speakers and other Caucasian cultures. The advances of IE-speakers led further towards more attractive settlements in Anatolia, while the very thin connection-stripe long the Black Sea between Anatolia and the Ukrainian urheimat a felt back to cultures of Caucasian languages. This scenario seems plausible for several reasons:
    1. It explains, why IE-languages occure so early in Anatolia without a gegraphical connection to present-day Ukraine.
    2. Due to the high attractiveness of Anatolia compared with a lower attractiveness of Northern lands (Ukraine offside the coastal-stripe) it's more plausible, that successful conquerors from the north emmigrated in high numbers towards the south, while otherwise a successful conquest of the north by a southern invader would mobilze less numbers of emmigrants.
    3. For the first IE-conquest of Anatolia from southern Ukraine, the route via along the eastern shore along Georgia seems to be more reasonable than the route along the western shore along Romania and Bulgaria. The area of Georgia had reached a high development even in Neolithicum and is home of the world's oldest mine-site (goldmine of Zagdrisi). The density of valuable metals in Georgia is also higher than in the Balkans, especially metals reachable with techniques of that era. And: on the route via Georgia you need to cross just one time bigger waters (Street of Kerch), while the route via the Balkans would have to cross to times a bigger water (Danube-Delta and Bosporus). So, for the owner of a superior war-technology, the route via Georgia would be the first choice, the route via the Balkans would be the second choice.
    So, my proposal is to locate the urheimat of the IE-speakers in southern Ukraine (Yamna-culture), while Anatolia was the first "colony" of these speakers. When gaining a militarian superiority, the most valuable targets for raids and conquests where Western Georgia and than further the south. Trails into less rich countries into the East, West and North happened probably only, when the most valuable targets were already taken by owners of the same technology (in this case: members of the same culture and language-family). Becaus in the Caucasus only a small stripe along the Georgian shore was really attractive, this stripe became target of a Kartvelian and other Caucasian reconquista (at least in a cultural and linguistic sense) as soon as the IE-settlers in this stripe profited no more from support by other IE-groups.
    The technique of planting grapes and producing wine in this scenario was picked up from the Caucasian people (most probably from Kartvelian speakers), when the coastal stripe of Western Georgia felt under temporary control of IE-speakers advancing to Anatolia. Nevertheless, the wine-argument can not be discussed seriously, without respecting the possibility that the word for wine is an early loan-word from the Caucasian language-families, probably Kartvelian.

  • @osgrath
    @osgrath 2 роки тому

    Will you be posting this for those of us who could not log in earlier due to prior commitments?

  • @josoece3483
    @josoece3483 3 роки тому +20

    The word you were looking as a proof of patrilocal society is probably "udaja" in Serbian. Which is a term when a woman marries. U- is kind of a definitive prefix, and daj is from "dati" which means "give". So it kinda means giving away your daughter to another family. Also a lot of kinship terms are still preserved in Serbian (I didn't find another language with variety of terms like Serbian). So we have separate words for father, mother, brother and sister in law depending on side of the family) as many others that sometimes I have to fact check what they mean cause they are so specific and not used so often anymore. "Svekar & Svekrva" are father and mother of the husband, "Tast & Tаšta" are father nd mother of the wife. "Dever and Jetrva" are husband's brother and his wife, "Zaova" is husband's sister, "Šuraк" is sister's brother. "Svastika & Pašenog" are wife's sister and her husband etc. "Pastorak" like maybe deminutive of "Pastor" (maybe borrowed from other languages) is wife's son i.e. from previous marriage. I don`t really get why isn`t this more talked about in linguistic circles, how come only Serbs (as far as I know) preserved all this variety of kinship terms.

    • @robthetraveler1099
      @robthetraveler1099 2 роки тому +5

      It's not just Serbs; "Svekar" is cognate with Spanish "suegro," Italian "suocero," and German "Schwager," all of which mean "father-in-law." There are probably other cognates, too.

    • @josoece3483
      @josoece3483 2 роки тому +3

      @@robthetraveler1099 Im not saying there are no such words in other langauges, I am just saying we Serbian preserved most of them. Find me cognate of dever, zaova, svastika, jetrva, different words for uncles and aunts etc.

    • @thatgirl3960
      @thatgirl3960 2 роки тому +4

      Some of those terms are also used in Hindi to denote the same meaning, eg. dever (spelt differently), Jetr...

    • @cw4karlschulte661
      @cw4karlschulte661 2 роки тому +3

      Old Russian and Turkish have these distinctions, but are fading.

    • @josoece3483
      @josoece3483 2 роки тому

      @@thatgirl3960 Yes, there are many in sanskrit

  • @gustavderkits8433
    @gustavderkits8433 8 місяців тому

    Colin Renfrew gave up completely at a Marina Gimbutas memorial lecture. It’s on youtube😊

  • @vorthora
    @vorthora 3 роки тому

    Wish I could be a patron, but can't $$. What recommended book of myths do they mention here? I'm not referring to Watson and how to kill a dragon. I just couldn't catch the name of book and author, please? If anyone knows, and can tell me, thank you!!!

    • @vorthora
      @vorthora 3 роки тому

      @Jasta 2 Thank you!

  • @bartholomewschumacher1776
    @bartholomewschumacher1776 3 роки тому

    Well, bottom line, similar and differences show the relationship, plus archeological studies 'combined' points to the relations. That is what is necessary to determine relation.

  • @daviddeiss3073
    @daviddeiss3073 Рік тому +1

    During the Razib Khan's podcast James P. Mallory said that the homeland of PIE is South Caucasus / NE Turkey / NW Iran due the genetical analysis. I wonder what Dr. Yates thinks about this?

  • @LivWildStyle
    @LivWildStyle 4 роки тому +2

    Maybe it's a mind meld.

  • @bob___
    @bob___ 2 роки тому

    On the horse sacrifice, has anyone suggested that the king may have been required to ride a stallion as it covered the mare, rather than the king covering the mare directly? Also, note the ideological dualism of horses: the Ashvins of Vedic mythology, Castor/Pollux, and the Roman ritual of the October Horse. The goats who draw Thor's chariot seem reminiscent of the October Horse (and they must be killed and eaten ritualistically or they won't come back to life), while the eight legs of Sleipnir suggest a pair or horses (reminiscent of Hengist and Horsa?) a la the October Horse.

  • @jahanas22
    @jahanas22 4 роки тому +1

    That was an interesting presentation. I have been studying languages for a long time including Anatolian.

  • @ShinigamiCustoms
    @ShinigamiCustoms 4 роки тому +23

    52:30 "pastor" means "protector of sheep". Protector of sheep in Polish is "pasterz". I never made than connection before.

    • @chicoti3
      @chicoti3 4 роки тому +1

      Keep in mind that Polish borrowed a lot of Germanic and Romanic words

    • @perguto
      @perguto 4 роки тому +2

      Well, in this case pastor and pasterz are clearly borrowings from latin

    • @cantoprak7428
      @cantoprak7428 4 роки тому

      @@perguto this erz ending is from polish as i know but sound changes should be researched so we can now if it is a loan or not

    • @Hwyadylaw
      @Hwyadylaw 3 роки тому

      @@perguto
      Not pasterz, that's Slavic.
      They both have common PIE roots however.

    • @davidmandic3417
      @davidmandic3417 3 роки тому +1

      @@Hwyadylaw Yea, that's probably true. Croatian: pastir "shepherd", pasti "take sheep/cattle out to graze" or "look after sheep/cattle while grazing", also "graze, eat grass", spasiti "save, rescue" (older: spasti). The root meant something like "protect/nourish", cognate with Latin pasco and pastor.

  • @2682084
    @2682084 3 роки тому +14

    What worries me is the dinosaur behind Dr Crawford. I hope that it doesn't bite his ear.

  • @larryjeffryes6168
    @larryjeffryes6168 4 роки тому

    I think skill with/access to horse breeding, and the same with wheeled vehicles, made proto Indo Europeans successful themselves and also relevant to others. That relevance agent of language change I don’t really hear singled out as a factor. But I’m a novice.

  • @emrisrex
    @emrisrex 2 роки тому +2

    The genetic research seems to also promote the steppe theory

  • @StormKidification
    @StormKidification 4 роки тому +3

    Unexpected dissing at the end

  • @jglammi
    @jglammi 2 роки тому

    such handsome scholars

  • @Tina06019
    @Tina06019 4 роки тому +11

    Thank you for recording this, gentlemen.
    I am fascinated by historical linguistics. I found that "The Horse, the Wheel and Language" required me to do a lot of what I call slow thinking.
    I know a bit about Iroquoian language and I admit, I don't see any evidence of connection to Indo-European prior to European contact in the early 17th century. The Mohawk word for mother is "ista," which obviously does not start with the "m" sound. That seems like a pretty basic difference. If you know more than I do about this, please comment.

    • @riroo8275
      @riroo8275 4 роки тому +1

      I vaguely recall that the absence of labials (i.e. /m p b f v/) is characteristic of the Iroquoian language family in general.

    • @TP-om8of
      @TP-om8of 2 роки тому +1

      @@riroo8275 yes, and if you reconstruct an m- in front of ‘Ista’, you get ‘mista’, which sounds more like a dad than a mum.

    • @annepoitrineau5650
      @annepoitrineau5650 2 роки тому

      @@riroo8275 Which makes it impossible for iroquoian to have a "m-other" type word.

    • @annepoitrineau5650
      @annepoitrineau5650 2 роки тому +2

      The people who migrated to America did it before Indo-european was even Proto-Indo-european, so Iroquoian cannot be Indo-European. Look up the KET people if you want connections.

    • @danielhopkins296
      @danielhopkins296 2 роки тому

      The snake worshipping Iroquois and the Senaca parallel the snake worshipers of Iraq and Sheshonk ( Shisunaga)

  • @marksordahl6784
    @marksordahl6784 4 роки тому +1

    What do you think of Nostratics?

    • @cw4karlschulte661
      @cw4karlschulte661 2 роки тому

      Check out the great linguistic scholar, Allan Bomhards writings on Nostratic for the latest views.

  • @alexgabriel5423
    @alexgabriel5423 Рік тому

    Inscriptions in Thracian found on the island of Samothrace are not well investigated...the discovery was in 1994 by Claude Brixhe from the University of Nantes.

  • @johannesschutz780
    @johannesschutz780 2 роки тому

    I know this is an old video, but why did you stop teaching at universities?

  • @sharonjackson5196
    @sharonjackson5196 Рік тому

    From Wiktionary entry on

  • @grizmileham7029
    @grizmileham7029 3 роки тому +9

    Re: The Cosmic Hunt, this is based on an article in the 9/16 Scientific American by Julien d'Hoy "Scientists Trace Society’s Myths to Primordial Origins". He did what he calls a "phylogenetic analysis" of myth and determined that the set of mythemes he terms "the Cosmic Hunt" are present in cultures on both sides of the Bering strait. The myth describes someone turned into an animal who is then hunted and ultimately is placed in the sky as a constellation. d'Hoy claims to be able to directly connect the Greek Callisto myth with similar Algonquin stories. He also claims he can place the origin of Pygmalion style myths with the Berber people about 4,000 years ago and describes its spread as far as Madagascar. So that's the answer to the dude's question about why the Cosmic Hunt is considered one of the oldest myths (by at least two people, d'Hoy and the question asker): according to d'Hoy it crossed the Bering strait at least 15,000 year ago.

    • @grizmileham7029
      @grizmileham7029 3 роки тому +1

      Ha, I paused the video and wrote that post about three seconds before they started talking about it again at the end. Forgive the redundancy.

    • @jacobpast5437
      @jacobpast5437 9 місяців тому

      Julien d'Huy

  • @vanuaturly
    @vanuaturly 4 роки тому +6

    Yes, genetics has gone through a couple of revolutions. We are better at retrieving it from archaeology and it is much cheaper and much faster than it used to be.

  • @clintonreisig
    @clintonreisig 2 роки тому +2

    Proto-Indo-European seems to have been very succesful

  • @jellosapiens7261
    @jellosapiens7261 4 роки тому +1

    Isn't the root *bak also believed by some to be a Semitic loanword due to the initial /b/, which wouldn't occur in a native IE word?

  • @feanorofsunspear2320
    @feanorofsunspear2320 4 роки тому +4

    I had read his paper without knowing

  • @iangwaltney2316
    @iangwaltney2316 2 роки тому +1

    Enjoyed you guys. but go Jackets :P

  • @benedyktjaworski9877
    @benedyktjaworski9877 4 роки тому +4

    As for words allegedly borrowed into IE from Afro-Asiatic, another popular example, I believe, is *táwros (cf. Lat. taurus, Slavic tur) for ‘bull’, similar to Proto-Semitic *ṯawr. Not sure what are the arguments for it not being a native IE word - perhaps the fact that it’s not ablauting and the hard to explain /a/. Beekes gives *teh₂uros in “Comparative IE Linguistics” and etym. dictionary of Greek but that would give long *tāuros in Late PIE, Derksen gives *th₂euro- (*tauro-) in his etymological dictionaries of Slavic and Baltic (resp. in terms *tȗrъ and Lith. tauras). But all also note the possibility of PIE → Semitic borrowing.
    Anthony in “The Horse, the Wheel, and Language” interprets this as an early borrowing from Tripolye-culture Afro-Asiatic speakers (who came there through Danube Valley from Anatolia) into the Yamnaya steppe community when cattle was gotten in the western boundary of the steppe from Danube valley communities and an evidence of contact on that frontier.

    • @aa-zz6328
      @aa-zz6328 3 роки тому

      I think also that it's not just the number seven but many of the numbers look related in IE and Semitic.
      I could give examples from Arabic and English, as these are the languages I know in both families.
      Zero-sefer/صفر (this one is more modern)
      One-wahad/واحد
      Two-ithnein/اثنين or tnein/تنين
      Three-theleth/ثلاث
      Four-arbaha/اربعة (not that similar)
      Five-khemse/خمسة (not that similar)
      Six-sitta/شتة
      Seven-sabaha/سبعة
      Eight-themanie/ثمانية (maybe)
      Nine-tsgha/تسعة (maybe)

  • @Mr.Nichan
    @Mr.Nichan 4 роки тому +10

    45:00
    Yes, it's definitely gotten easier and faster to study both ancient and modern DNA, due to improved methods for sequencing DNA, analyzing and correcting for damage in DNA, and stuff like that. The expansion of the steppe culture usually associated with Proto-Indo-European is one of the things that people talk about picking up in data, notably with a near total male replacement in much of Europe.

    • @ashishdeshpande8888
      @ashishdeshpande8888 2 роки тому

      But not of India and hence hypothesis of languages coming into India is flawed

  • @burnblast2774
    @burnblast2774 9 місяців тому

    Regarding the increase in inflectional morphology, I think of modern Spanish and French incorporating pronouns onto the front of verbs functionally acting as person agreement with objects.

  • @SudheerKolachina
    @SudheerKolachina 2 роки тому +1

    The historical account emerging from linguistic and archaeological evidence need not match with the genetic evidence. Language shift is a lot more common than genetic shift. Most speakers of Indic languages in South Asia shifted from Dravidian or Austro-Asiatic. American Indo-European scholars seem unfamiliar with work on Indo-European (and contact with other language families like Dravidian) by scholars outside North America and Europe.

  • @nneichan9353
    @nneichan9353 4 роки тому +1

    Some of the audio is hard to hear. What a fascinating discussion of linguistics/myth.
    Not used to Dr Crawford smiling so much! I'd like to have a second lifetime to study this myth/language subject!
    Serious Question: Can the text which appears to be auto-generated be altered by the videographer to actually give the real words the two profs are using? So the text is correct. Ex: every time they say Hittite my text comes up with different interpretations. Like: "hit site". And others. Like 'sadistic methods"? What was that supposed to be?

  • @missilotze2985
    @missilotze2985 11 місяців тому +1

    I think a lot of what helped spread PIE languages was tge social innovation that allowed treating with nonkin as if they were kin. The guest/host reciprical relationships, the gift exchange obligations...these would be attractive to the neighbours, encouraging language adoption. And with the added mobility of the horse cultures, they would have contact with a LOT of neighbors.

  • @fragranceofsound
    @fragranceofsound 3 роки тому +1

    I wish you would translate Mr. Yates as you can translate it into more Layman Friendly with examples, etc. and I wish he would finish his sentences.

  • @anotherelvis
    @anotherelvis 4 роки тому +12

    15:30 IIRC The Yamnaya pastoralists spreading westwards had slow wagons. in comparison the "light war chariot"with spoked wheels was probably invented by people from central or eastern and central Europe that travelled back east towards the Shintashta site. It looks like some people from this group continued into india. This hypothesis explains the spread of the sentum languages as well as the spread of the R1a genetic haplogroup.

    • @awaisb7750
      @awaisb7750 3 роки тому

      Sentum? I think you mean Satem.

    • @anotherelvis
      @anotherelvis 3 роки тому +1

      @@awaisb7750 You are correct. I mixed them up.

    • @JDP1699
      @JDP1699 2 роки тому

      Doesn’t R1a originate in India?

    • @anotherelvis
      @anotherelvis 2 роки тому +1

      @@JDP1699 The earliest R1a that we have found so far is from North Western Russian stone age hunter gatherers, and it is dated 10800 BCE.

    • @JDP1699
      @JDP1699 2 роки тому +1

      @@anotherelvis thank you. What paper was that found in? What about the diversity of r1a found in India? Sorry i remember reading a paper about R1a’s and it’s predecessors origin in India.

  • @aa-zz6328
    @aa-zz6328 3 роки тому

    I think also that it's not just the number seven but many of the numbers look related in IE and Semitic.
    I could give examples from Arabic and English, as these are the languages I know in both families.
    Zero-sefer/صفر (this one is more modern)
    One-wahad/واحد
    Two-ithnein/اثنين or tnein/تنين
    Three-theleth/ثلاث
    Four-arbaha/اربعة (not that similar)
    Five-khemse/خمسة (not that similar)
    Six-sitta/شتة
    Seven-sabaha/سبعة
    Eight-themanie/ثمانية (maybe)
    Nine-tsgha/تسعة (maybe)

    • @cinsifrit9860
      @cinsifrit9860 3 роки тому +1

      you should check proto-semitic and older mesopotamian numbers.
      seven is similar in all languages lmao :D

  • @M.athematech
    @M.athematech 4 роки тому +2

    IE words for wheel going back to *kwel meaning roll is similar to Semitic gal meaning roll.

  • @rediius
    @rediius 2 роки тому +2

    I believe the analog to Sanskrit "chakra" is English "cycle". I wanted to shout this into the past and see if my guess was correct.

    • @SorryStamin
      @SorryStamin 2 роки тому

      Super interesting idea!

    • @piercesmith1465
      @piercesmith1465 Рік тому +2

      Hey, Sanskrit "chakra" is cognate both of Old English "hweohl" (wheel) and Greek kuklos (circle). The upsilon is often also transliterated as a "y," so there's no doubt that kuklos must be the source for "cycle". So, yes, chakra and cycle are connected via Greek kuklos. But the cognate with chakra in English is wheel. See p. 35 of David W. Anthony's book with a table of 5 Indo-European wheel/wagon-related cognate terms. I think you'd really enjoy checking it out.

  • @AndrewTheFrank
    @AndrewTheFrank 2 роки тому +1

    As far as the whole Troy thing goes, I looked into what some Albanians claim and that kind of seems the most likely place. All of the peoples in the story are right there locally. They'd probably all mostly understand each other. The customs that make up the drama of the story are a part of some social custom that is practice in Albania even today. It is in the direction mentioned in the story. There is a location which meets the description perfectly, and if you go directly west you end up in the places of the Latins in which makes the whole founding of Rome story make a lot more sense because its on the other side of the Adriatic Sea. And if so it would mean some kind of connection between the Latins, Illyrians, Greeks and the like.
    As for the Etruscans, I think people are wanting them to fit into different classifications.

  • @ghenulo
    @ghenulo 3 роки тому

    PIE is interesting and all, but you couldn't pay me to go back to college.

  • @ozarkervalhalla636
    @ozarkervalhalla636 4 роки тому +9

    When you pee on a tree in the woods...... European.

  • @ricktollefson6077
    @ricktollefson6077 4 роки тому +1

    Is it possible to deduce any Neanderthal 'loan words' that crept into languages...??

    • @sparshjohri1109
      @sparshjohri1109 3 роки тому +4

      It's too long ago. We can't reconstruct words from before 6000 years ago with PIE, and the last Neanderthals lived over 30,000 years ago.

    • @TP-om8of
      @TP-om8of 2 роки тому +1

      Neanderthals didn’t use language as we understand it. They used a complex system of whistling and hand-flapping, which some scholars think they copied from birds, though I think it’s actually the other way around.

    • @TP-om8of
      @TP-om8of 2 роки тому

      @Daniel Meng National Enquirer

  • @PopeBarley
    @PopeBarley 2 роки тому +2

    ...I ship it

  • @MrViniantonio
    @MrViniantonio 3 роки тому +5

    I'm very turned on by these two intelligent handsome men being intelligent

  • @danielhopkins296
    @danielhopkins296 2 роки тому

    So the Indo-Europeans we're from Asia . Hence we should call them the Indo-Eurasian speakers

    • @danielhopkins296
      @danielhopkins296 11 місяців тому

      @kipp kipper I guess they were muted when they went thru Asia

  • @Hotsoe
    @Hotsoe 3 роки тому

    I didn‘t understand a thing

  • @cjcanton9121
    @cjcanton9121 4 роки тому

    Damn sorry I missed it

  • @Hotsoe
    @Hotsoe 3 роки тому

    Thumbs up anyway i guess...

  • @ChlorineHeart
    @ChlorineHeart 3 роки тому +2

    he is not a very eloquent speaker lol but loved the discussion regardless

  • @garytucker5748
    @garytucker5748 4 роки тому

    Ravana Indian God,festival make chariots,something to do with Alexander the greats descendants and the wheel,Nuraghi culture I believe ancient Sardinia origins I believe.

    • @indrajitgupta3280
      @indrajitgupta3280 2 роки тому

      What was that about? It was confusing.
      Ravana was an Asura, not a god, not a Deva, but the opposing category. Just for context, the categories were switched in Iranian theogony.
      Festival make chariots - didn't get that; in the Mahabharata, that is probably a reconstruction of possible older conflicts and battles within them, but may have a strong creative element wrapped around a core of bare-bones family conflict and battle narratives, the protagonists were almost uniquely in battle on chariots. Spoked wheels, but heavy enough to get mired in the muck of a multiple day battle on earthy fields with deep layers of top soil. Modern imagings of these in today's India are utterly unworkable and implausible. Cattle raids were also, often, chariot-borne, so these must have been robust, as well as light-weight; going on a raid moving at a speed where enfuriated horsemen could catch up relatively quickly is NOT a good idea.
      Alexander the Great comes nowhere into this; he himself did not use chariots, only cavalry and infantry. In his last, fourth set-piece battle, he actually faced chariots as a distinct element in the opposing battle, fighting an Indian king of a small realm in the present-day Punjab.
      Alexander had no descendant in South Asia; it is reputed, because of their features, that there are some genetic links with the ancient, pre-Muslim people of Swat, in north-west Pakistan.
      I don't remember the Nuraghi culture, and have nothing to say about its Sardinian antecedents. Perhaps if you would expand on this point.

  • @furkanonal8
    @furkanonal8 4 роки тому +2

    Yaaay I heard my language family mentioned in one of your videos, Turkic 👍 lol

  • @andriesscheper2022
    @andriesscheper2022 2 місяці тому

    Indo European is a hypothetical language. You're hypothetical doctors.

  • @garytucker5748
    @garytucker5748 4 роки тому +1

    Honey, grain,sheep,goats and dogs.go a long way.

  • @heathcliffearnshaw1403
    @heathcliffearnshaw1403 4 роки тому +1

    Oh, and learn Grimms Law , and Schleicher’s etc . English ‘th’ links v ,links f, links t, links w , links u, links d , but also links b ; that’s why Bishop Cyrill made alphabet АБВ ; and so on .

  • @amonamaria2000
    @amonamaria2000 2 роки тому

    One thing you can't mess with or change is the negative blood type. And we know we're Indo-European The oldest on Earth.

    • @MixerRenegade95
      @MixerRenegade95 Рік тому

      Well not oldest, can you settle for one of the oldest?

    • @amonamaria2000
      @amonamaria2000 Рік тому

      @@MixerRenegade95 negative blood type are the original Hebrews. Ancient

  • @heathcliffearnshaw1403
    @heathcliffearnshaw1403 4 роки тому +1

    CRECHs Chosen Root Etymonic Category Headings. My approach. Don’t get too bogged down here. Aim: the best overview of European languages and how the tree links up. Gehirne (brain) ,корень (root) , horn . Now stand on your head and learn the indo european languages you want to, pretending to be a tree!

  • @DAYBROK3
    @DAYBROK3 4 роки тому +2

    the etruscan there has been dna suggesting the turkic possibility might be right.

    • @jonmartin444
      @jonmartin444 4 роки тому

      I felt the guest was understating the supposed evidence. I agree an IE connection is unlikely, but it seemed like he was hinging the whole thing on Italic myths and the name Troy. But this is ignoring the fact that contemporaries of the Etruscans (the Greeks) believed they came from Anatolia, and little blips of IE-like core vocabulary that Etruscan has (the pronouns, some of the numerals, bits of morphology.)

    • @nthavotelcam4112
      @nthavotelcam4112 4 роки тому

      My theory is that the Etruscans descended from the Hattian from Anatolia to escape the Hittie invasion but that’s my theory.

    • @cantoprak7428
      @cantoprak7428 4 роки тому +2

      Etruscan had no any Turkic in them.

    • @peterfireflylund
      @peterfireflylund 8 місяців тому

      @@cantoprak7428Anatolian.

  • @TP-om8of
    @TP-om8of 2 роки тому

    Anatolian was a pidgin language. It lost categories; they weren’t innovations in the rest of IE.
    I know this because my grandmother spoke Hittite.

  • @Clint52279
    @Clint52279 2 роки тому

    Dr. Jack Crawford, Old Norse Expert, Monopoly Cheater.

  • @pukis5686
    @pukis5686 4 роки тому +3

    Lithuania = Sanskrit .

    • @sabrik3885
      @sabrik3885 4 роки тому +9

      They do have common cognates and are both Indo-European languages but Lithuanian is a part of the Balto-Slavic branch while Sanskrit is part of the Indo-Iranian branch. They're not the same thing.

    • @sameash3153
      @sameash3153 4 роки тому +1

      Lol

    • @pukis5686
      @pukis5686 3 роки тому

      @@sabrik3885 Rassia is Balto- Slavic. Germany is Balto- Germanic!!!!!!

    • @indrajitgupta3280
      @indrajitgupta3280 2 роки тому +1

      @@pukis5686 And the connection of either Balto-Slavic or Balto-Germanic to Sanskrit, other than their common placement within the IE languages?

    • @pukis5686
      @pukis5686 2 роки тому

      @@indrajitgupta3280 Lithuania = indo-europe