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Rodinal VS Kodak D-76 with Tri-X and Dektol Side By Side Comparisons
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- Опубліковано 2 бер 2020
- On this episode of The Darkroom Knight I breakdown a side by side comparison of Rodinal and Kodak D76 in a fight to the dev!
Transcript and High Resolution Scans
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I worked for a photo portrait studio in the 1990's, and hung around the darkroom, where a fellow from Macao/Hong Kong held court. It was there I learned how to develop 4X5 sheet film in undiluted D-76 via the "dip, swirl, and drain" in total darkness method. After calculating how many sheets or reels of film had gone through the developer, a measured amount of D-76 Replenisher was added to keep development times constant. I'm comfortable in darkness and confined spaces, so it was a learning experience. (I'd used D-76 1:1 in the home darkroom, along with HC-110, Rodinal, H&W Control Developer, and Dektol 1:2.) The latter was used to make "black-and-white slides" with Kodak High Contrast Copy film.)
"Black-and-White slides" was the result of a successful experiment when I copied black-and-white negatives via a slide copier with HCC rated at EI 80. This way, I had the original negatives and a set of unique transparencies. I don't know if this can be done today, since I'm sure that HCC is as gone as Kodachrome. Why didn't I "contact print" the negatives onto HCC strips? I hate trying to do that in total darkness. Dust and scratches from trying to contact print that way are inevitable. Another thing: most "black-and-white transparency" literature had a "re-expose the film" step that lazy old me avoided, along with a special order kit/chemicals.
Another great video Azriel. I moved from Rodinal, to D76 and have ended up at Xtol. If you break the 5 litre stock down to 5 x 1 litre bottles of stock, then use the time extension method on the instructions (not replenishment method, time extension) you get 15 rolls per 1 litre. 5 x 15 = 75 rolls. B&H $10 / 75 rolls = 13 cents a roll. Low grain, well controlled contrast, and sharp. Also being the most modern Kodak developer it's less toxic :)
I'm frugal and lazy, so semi-stand develop all my b&w films in Rodinal 1+100 for 60min.
Caffenol sounds like your thing if you get tired of grain.
Yup, Caffenol with pure ascorbic acid (vitamin c) and "cooked" washing soda works best
@@stefflus08 Caffenol is not all that frugal, though. At least over here with the cheapest components I can find, it will be around 80 cents per 600ml batch. Let's say you get away with 2 usages, still 40 cents. 1+100 Rodinal is 13 cent ish. You can get really nice developer for the cost of caffenol. It is pretty nice though. :-)
@@hmpeter You are probably right. A liter of my mix comes to ¢40 of coffee, ¢20 of crystal soda, ¢10 of Potassium bromide and a negligable cost of vitC bought in a 2kg bag. So 70 cents per liter or 25 cents per 35mm film. I only use it once.
But the grain is finer than with Rodinal, so there are times where either is suitable. Most films beside HP5+ I usually prefer Rodinal 1:25. rather than 100.
I‘be never tried D76, but have used a ton of rodinal. I really love its sharpness and that there’s no powder to work with and it never expires.
Rodinal is a tried and true general (almost all purpose) B&W developer. It's tremendous longevity and ability to develop just about any old film that can be developed makes it an average person's dream come true. Many home hobbyists absolutely despise powdered formulas. Some don't like to dissolve well and so have to be screened. And too, some must be stored in almost air-free containers or they die within a few months or so. Rodinal can be passed on to your great grandkids (slight exaggeration). But your video was well done and truthful. Thanks
Another amazing video. With the newer ADOX D-76 - you can mix it at 29˚C / 84˚F = much easier. Thanks for all the work and passion.
I have never used other devs. I've been using PaRodinal(which I make from scratch) ever since I started shooting BW film, and I am very happy with the grain it produces. D-76 and other devs(where I live) are so expensive that it's not even worth the trouble. Just for comparison, with the price of d-76 I was able to buy the chems for making the PaRodinal and a fixer, plus some lab equipment.
I keep coming back to this channel once per year man you have come a long way! Glad to see you still uploading videos.
Amazing breakdown work! Thank you
My experiences after 5ish years of analog photography:
Rodinal does a good to very decent job for films below 400 ISO. It's cheap and lasts for eons. However, it 'adds up' to the grain the film already has, which can be problematic at higher ISOs.
D-76 is more expensive and has a lower shelve life, set up stock solution has to be used up in 6 months. But: it produces a finer grain, especially at higher ISOs.
Bottom line: you only shoot films with less then 400 ISO (or you like the look Rodinal gives at higher speeds)? Go for Rodinal, be happy ever after and invest the saved money in fast lenses.
You also shoot 400 ISO and higher? Strongly consider D-76, but beware that this is an 'all or nothing' approach. Keeping it on the shelve for the occassional 400 film won't work, you'll have to use it for the slower films as well if don't want to throw away half used solution.
I for myself don't like the Rodinal look, I can't help it, so D-76 is my way to go. I buy the gallon pouches, shake them thoroughly before I open them, take the amount I need for 1 liter and put the rest in a vacuum sealed bag you use to freeze foods (my wife hates it when I do that😅). Never had any problems with spoiled powder doing it that way.
D-76 Formula indicates 100g of sodium sulfite, 2g of metol, 5g of Hydroq. and 2 of Borax; so the chance to get the right proportion dividing de powder is minimal, thats why is better to do it all at once. If you want to keep it for a long time, make a stock solution and storet it in the fridge ;)
It's nice to see others doing film and darkroom videos. I shoot 4x5 and 120 and print them. I try to soak up information like a sponge. You can always learn.
Ah, this is the big one! Been waiting for this :-)
Love these videos btw, keep up the great work!
I am writing this comment from Uzbekistan. Here there is not much people I can ask such questions. Your Videos are great Help. Thank you!!!
Glad I could be of some help Gürhan!
And left I forget, 90% of my work was using Tri-X with an occasional diversion to Plus-X with grain alteration using dilute rapid selenium toner…nice combo there.
very cool.
Great comparison, thanks for the work going into this!
no problem, thanks for watching :)
I agree that the Rodinal grain looked awful in these images, but shooting medium format the grain is smaller and sharper in prints and yields a subtle charcoal drawing quality that my artists eye enjoys. I also dilute at 1:100 which makes it even cheaper and the long dev time and minimal agitation yields better sharpness.
Azriel great video. I’d be curious to see this exact comparison with a couple more stocks. Could you please repeat this with HP5, and maybe another Ilford film? Delta 100? FP4? Delta 400? Thanks.
Thanks for the awesome comparison again. I've got some Rodinal and use it for stand development and slower film, but have been tempted in getting some D-76/ID-11 for the slightly smoother grain (but a bit more than Xtol). Seems like you've answered the question. I think that for scanning, the flatter negative also seems like a benefit.
I used D-76 years ago so it was my old standby. Just finishing up my darkroom, so it looks like I'll need to get some Rodinal to try myself. There may be some applications where the look is more appropriate. Thanks for your insightfulness. Rodinal will just be another tool in my photo toolbox
Rodinal for old expired films, like, really expired. Also for some 100-125 speed film. No way I'll use it for any 400 film. It is cheap and easy to mix, but man, that grain sometimes just unbearable. But for expired films, it's ability to suppres base fog is good.
D-76 1+1 is universal choice for me. Any 400 speed film looks good to great in it. I can always crank up contrast if I want. I can make shadows dark if I want.
Are you nuts? I used Rodinal as my main developer for 5 years and I mainly shot Tri-X if you know what you are doing you shouldn't have unbearable grain. D76 is too damn expensive. I currently use HC-110 125 rolls per bottle using dilution H
@@kylemichaels3373 This. Rodinal/HC110 are going to give you grain, if you use base dilutions. 1+100 or Dilution H for hc110? smooth city.
A pun… cut and dried? That’s the final stage of film development!
Maybe? I made this awhile ago ;)
Fantastic comparison!
This is a good test. Thank you. I use both these developers exclusively and shoot nothing but Tri-X, but always use D76 at stock solution for it's tonality. That's how it works out....D76 for the tonality, Rodinal for the grain. While by definition the Rodinal may not be as sharp in your comparison, the prints will generally LOOK sharper than D76 prints. Better to mix powders outside too. Just take it on the porch.
Thanks for the comment Steve. I'd worry too much about wind if I took it outside :)
I’ve used both but…I always used D-76 1:1 or Rodinal at 1:50. Next was the choice in paper and paper developer…Agfa Brovira grade 3 or 4 processed in Ethol LPD was the printing approach with dodging, burning and possibly localized bleaching with
Ferrocyanide. Bottom line is that the printing approach made a huge contribution compared to the film developer. In the end, D-76 1:1 was my go-to. I literally spent years in the darkroom on a daily basis and was pretty quick with all of it. End of the day would find me standing guard over a huge rotary wash tank and a Pako rotary dryer cranking out maybe 200 8 X 10 glossy prints for use in publications. In the final analysis, the materials and processes need to reflect your vision of the reality you present. Getting to that point isn’t a short term or casual exercise but an amalgam of all the many factors mentioned above. Rodinal is different than D-76 and if it meets your aesthetic sense then I’d say use it, if not D-76 might be a good answer. Good video with good examples.👍🏽👍🏽
Thanks for sharing all this Paul, we'd love to see you over at the Discord. You have a wealth of knowledge! discord.gg/NHtjGraK
I really like how in-depth go go into your tests about the different variables. There's a lot of good info here. It would be awesome if you could explore Rodinal more in depth - agitation and dilution can really change how it behaves. Reducing the agitation can change it profoundly. It can get *super* creamy, almost glowing with stand development and fine grain film; microcontrast also improves.
t's never going to give as fine grain as D76 for the simple reason that it is not a solvent (fine grain) developer. It's high accutance, meaning it leaves those sharp grain boundaries which give the impression of sharpness. This why D76 got grainer as you diluted it; the solvent effect became weaker.
If you want the benefits of a liquid developer that also lasts nearly forever, still responds to dilution and low agitation sort of like Rodinal while also being reasonably fine grain like D76, you *really* ought to check out HC-110. It's practically an unsung hero. Though thick and per directions is mixed to a stock solution for later dilution, it can be used one-shot as well.
Glad someone mentioned hc-110. I vastly prefer liquid developers and rodinal and hc-110 are my go-to choice.
I picked up a bottle of reformulated HC-110. It's no longer as thick as honey, but a thin liquid. This is fantastic news for 1-shot use assuming it behaves the same.
genial video!!!! thanks for amazing work!!
Thanks Martin, appreciate it.
Once again, another stellar episode full of excellent knowledge!!!
Thanks very much Jaime!
I use them both, and you are right with d-76 for more important work
Lovely Paterson hat!
Why did you use the same area of the test photos instead of strips across one photo? You can only fairly compare if it’s the same portion of the photo
D76 or here in the UK Ilford's ID11 (more or less the same!) as it's easier to get hold off, is the developer I keep coming back too! No problem with splitting up larger packs of powder developers into smaller quantities and never had any issue! Nice comparison:)
I haven't tried either yet but just acquired both from Adorama (B&H won't ship some of those - even via ground - to my AZ location). These comparisons help me decide which dilution to try, so they're much appreciated! Still finishing my 2+-year-old bottle of DD-X though (it does still work w/o much compensation in time)!
2 year old DDX?! How was it stored?
@@AzrielKnight Room temp in a dark cabinet in my laundry room. Room temp in AZ being 68-81°F (20-27°C), depending on the season. The foil lid has only two small piercings to minimize air transfer when I pour it. I just pushed a roll of HP5+ 2 stops w/ it by only increasing time slightly (by 30-45 seconds) and noted the temps were closer to 21C than 20C. Pics came out just fine.
The warmer room (and water) temps in the summer are part of why I don't shoot too much then as it's hard to keep the chem cool enough.
I just got several bags of d76 from the 80’s. This will be interesting 🤔
It'll work!
Dev-initely a great video. Thanks. I'm looking to put together my two developer choices as I move from Cinestill DF96. I'm looking for more control. This helps me narrow down, Rodinal and ???? I'll have to see after more darkroom Knight videos.
HC-110 yields similar results to D-76. It’s easy to mix one shot from concentrate and lasts forever in concentrate form.
Only thing I've used so far, mainly because I love the results I get. I do want to try x-tol though.
@@JohnTomasella Have not tried X-tol yet. I have stocks of HC-110, Rodinal and Diafine. I use Rodinal with FP+. 400 ISO or higher in Rodinal doesn't look good to me. I like D-76 a lot, but don't use it often enough before it starts to go bad. HC-110 was a good compromise for me.
HC110 swings between rodinal levels of grain, and silly smooth grain and fine sharpness ala Xtol. More grain? Punchy highlights, go with dilution B. Smooth tonality? Go with dilution h.
HC 110 lasts forever? My last bottle lasted less than a year. I have read that Kodak has replaced 110's alcohol-based syrup with water, hence a much shorter shelf life.
I'd like to know how you arrive at your dev times - do you test them i.e. to get zone 2 density just distinguishable on print from black from Tri-X rated at 400iso ? Because without accurate exposure AND development, your results are going to differ from what I or the next guy finds. In fact why not do a video on exactly that? How to fine tune your own dev times for a particular film/dev/camera combo. Too many beginners out there over/under developing with no way of knowing. Anyway, keep the flame alive.
D76 stock is great as it is a easy to find in a 3.8 liter bag, it lasts a long time in closed powder form!
Rodinal (1:50 or 1:100) is great for medium or large format negatives but not good for 35 mm. Best results with Rodinal for 35 mm is by applying a two-step development with Rodinal followed by Xtol - Rodinal to get the microcontrast and Xtol dissolving a bit the clumpy Rodinal grain afterwards. D-76 is an average developer which never really exited me with results from it - often I find the grain too coarse, too.
I like the muddy and high grain in my pictures it kind of makes them look like old classic pictures but it is just me
Rodinal is my go to also. I wonder how the Ilford chemicals compare
I've done half a dozen tests and tbh many of these chems behave very much the same.
Rodinal 1:100 with agitation, FP4+ pulled to 64 ASA, 21-24mins depending on exposure. Grain is well controlled, nice tonality, prints and scans well. Also Fomapan 100 with lower development times.
Thanks for the tip. I have a hard enough time staying awake for a 16 min dev tbh ;)
a fight to the dev....well played sir, well played
Very nice video I use d-76 1+1 and 1+3 and have tried 1+5 I like em all , but I still wish I could get rodinal as I like the contrast ,but I can't find it locally and cant be shipped to PR :(
would be interesting with higher contrast scene and in camera exposure as a variable
Hi! Very interesting....
I just can´t figure out, how to download the highres scans from the linked blog... could you please tell me...
thx, Stephan
A while ago i compared rodinal with ID-11 (my basic-go-to developper and said to be the same or close to the same as D-76) in preperation for a little project with my father (sharing one roll of 120 to shoot each their half in their own Agfa Isola 1 and i am glad i only purchased a 100ml bottle of rodinal ;). Back in the day rodinal was my fathers basic-go-to developer, hence my comparison. It has its use, but for me definately not for everything. I am still curious to use the rodinal in stand development though. Thx for the video :)
Azriel, a fantastic comparison video. Let me say that I have experience using Rodinal and not D76. This is completely for the reasons you laid out up front. Rodinal is cheaper and can easily be used as a one shot developer at a wide range of dilutions. Plus, I don't shoot enough B&W film (6 rolls/month) to make mixing up a batch of D76 worth it for me. I don't particularly need a shorter dev time, and I think using a 1:25 is wasteful, so I definitely prefer using Rodinal at 1:50. I'll even stand develop in Rodinal at 1:50 for 60m. I'll also stand develop in Rodinal at 1:100 for 90m or 1:150 for 120m (with one or two agitations in the middle). Rodinal has totally got my vote.
Thanks for the comment. I still love Rodinal for sure.
"" Rodinal a soup for all seasons", as Norman Goldberg wrote after the
developer test in Popular Photographu in 1978.
In the Agfa Chemical Book 1952 Rodinal delutions from 1 : 10 to 1 : 200.
But the best developer ever was Kodak Microdol -X.
I started in 1965 with Promicrol by May and Baker, made in the U.K.
Then ID-11 and D-76.
At last Microdol and now Rodinal ( Adonal )
You made a great test.
Do you know which month he said that? I'd like to look it up :)
Rodinal +50 is M choice for the several month as I was looking for a more affordable solution after ilford dd-x. Comparing both, I would say rodinal is a good result for the money I pay. And this is the most affordable and accessible b&w developer where I live.
i love rodinalv primarily because of it's shelf life.
since my second child was born I'm using a monobath - just because it's quicker and I'm content with the results
Makes sense. Thanks for the comment :)
Erm... the minimum amount of D-76 per 80 square inches of film (one roll of 120 or 135-36) is 250ml, regardless of dilution, meaning one roll at 1+2 would be a total of 750ml solution (250ml of D-76, 500ml of water). No matter how you dilute D-76, you get ~15 rolls per gallon of stock developer. Using less D-76 per roll gives inconsistent results, depending on subject matter as there won’t be enough developer to fully develop highlights on higher contrast images. I personally use 300ml of D76 per roll, then dilute that based on what I’m going for. How much development you get is pretty easy to test for as the higher density areas of a neg won’t get as dense as you use less than 250ml of developer.
For me at least, when shooting 35mm, the grain produced by rodinal is just too distracting. Having said that, if you shoot medium or large format the grain issues matter a lot less and the starker look of rodinal can give some interesting results. If I'm shooting an urban scene with my 4x5, I often use rodinal to get that sort of result.
I think D-76 has less grain is because of sodium sulfite which dissolves the edges of film grain. In my opinion, Rodinal is much more versatile. I use it 1:100 in semi-stand development.
I love the Neon + rodinal combo
Hi Azriel,
Do you know if Rodinal is the same recipe as the original Rodinal? Obviously Agfa APX 100 is totally different and I wonder whether Rodinal is a different beast as well? Back in the day Rodinal 1+25 paired with APX100 or slower was absolutely stunning, so I’m surprised at this. At uni (2008) we were required to use D76 for all our sensitometry assignments as it was understood to be the best standard on which to compare results.
Hi! You are very thorough, amazing videos. Could you make a video on light metering for black and white film? Sounds trivial but there's no good videos out there. Keep up the good work!
I'm not really an authority on metering, if I'm being honest. It's also a massive subject, even when just talking B&W. I really appreciate the suggestion though.
I reaaaaaaaally want to see the differences between stock, 1:1 and 1:2 D76. Especially when pushing to 1600
Just use D76 in 1+1 solution one shot. I use it for HP5+ and FP4+ 120 film with very good results. Thing is when using D76 in stock solution it isn't consistent when developing a load of film. You have to extend you times each time you use the same solution.
Have you tried Cinestill's DF96 monobath?
I have not. Someday!
Did I hear you say curvy negatives toward the end there, d-76 wise? Just checking.
from experience, rodinal gives ugly clumpy grain. especially with fomapan. but it is unsurpassed in logevity and ease of use. you take 10ml of rodinal with 500ml of water, develop a couple of films and discard. if you shoot once a month, 500ml bottle will last for 4 years. if you keep the concentrate refrigirated in the dark and displace air in the bottle, it will outlast you.
I happen to like a rough randomized grain. :p
I really would like to see a Tetenal Ultrafin Plus-T review one Day. I heard a lot of good Thing's about it but i can't find a good Review.
Where can I get it?
What was the film speed here?
400
Ok after this I'm dumping Rodinal
Very good D76 has my money but hey that's just me! Keep up the good work
In what temperature did you use them? Sure that was at 20°C.
What was the agitation rhythme?
20
Yes :)
The same for each test strip.
@@AzrielKnight ...thanks for the info..because I find the Trix really grainy in this test.
I do not like Rodinal for 400 film at box speed or thereabouts, I prefer D76. (Not too pleased with Xtol either). If pushing to 1600 or 3200 it can be cool, especially with much shadow areas.
I like Rodinal for FP4 and Efke100. presumably PanF and Delta100 also, haven't tried that combo.
I think Xtol is next on my list of things to try.
@@AzrielKnight Also looking forward to HC110 dilutions (you did a hc110 vs rodinal vs dektol, no?), I've seen you use that quite often, whereas I haven't tried it at all
Where is the comparison with Dektol? Haha good video though
Good idea :)
D76 stock all day long and it is $9,95 not $12 here in the states.
Yo.. your merch are bomb
Thanks James :)
try D96 developer
It's an accutance thang.
Just so you know a congratulations is used to for special events to let a person know they have made some accomplishment. A congratulations is never used to respond to a comment someone made about a youtube video. Just letting you know about how American terms work.
Hati Hati, Barang Narkoba!!!!!!!!!!
Like the content. Dislike the music, especially the massive change in volume between speech and music.
Thanks. Noted.
Your big mistake was using rodanol with any film obove an ISO of 100. It was invented back in the middle 1800’s There was no film at that time that even came close to iso 50!! Do a test again.
Seems like you may be new to photography, you should check out my comparison to Ilfotec DDX and HC-110. HC-110 was made in the 1970s and Rodinal holds up. There's a reason why people still use it. Or maybe we should have just told Ralph Gibson he was wrong too?