Thunderbike Race Prep Video 4 - Ducati 748 setting valve clearances
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- Thunderbike Race bike Prep series, this fourth video follows the preparation of a series eligible Ducati 748 race bike
Hi Everyone
In this video the process I set the valve clearance for the Ducati 748 heads and 748SP camshafts.
This video goes through the measurement process for the achieving the correct clearances on both the opening and closing shims within the Desmodronic valve train
This video also talks through the difference in SP cams to the standard cams I have removed
Subsequent videos will cover the modification, rebuild and set-up of the engine before I move onto more videos detailing me building and preparing the race bike itself before taking it to the track
Enjoy and if you are interested in following the build please hit like and subscribe :)
Filmed on Gopro Hero 4 camera's & Iphone
Edited on Hitfilm Express #thunderbikebuild #racebuild #ducati
very interesting and very thorough explaination............but all that plays havoc with my dyslexia
It gets a bit OTT sometimes 😊
I've been adjusting valves for forty years in Fiats, Jaguars, Suzukis, you name it. I've never seen a more complicated valvetrain adjustment procedure ever! Thanks for helping the rest of it make sense. Loaded/unloaded opening side is quite logical once you think about it.
Hi Cratecruncher, people like to make it look complicated but it is actually not that bad 👍😎
Best explanation of Ducati shims on you tube .. bravo 👏🏻
Thanks, glad it was of some help and worked for you :)
Well, we may be years behind watching this video, but as others have already stated... this video is legion!! ery thpught out for the listeners. We will be starting Demo Service on a 2019 Panigale 959 Corsa, and this is a BIG HELP!!
Glad the video is of help to you. Thanks for watching 👍😎
Great video! The technical explanation was excellent and you made the measurement and adjustment procedure look easy. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful, Thanks 😎
Great video and very nice workshop.
We feel careful and precise work
I bought an ST4 916 engine from 2002 and I'm going to do the valve clearances.
Do you have a valve calculator file shared with subscribers?
Thank you for sharing these videos because I know it’s really work and time consuming.
This valve clerance is mostely like the old two vented engines.
The next model, the 749, (and 999) has a wider setting like. 0.18-023 for all opening, and 0.13-0.18 for all closing.
Do you know why it is like this, does it has something to do with the testatretta design?
And please keep on the great work with this Ducati workshop videoes. They are really the best!
The figures you are referencing are the service clearances. As I am building up the engines from scratch I use the tighter "setting" clearances.
@@DesmoWerx No, the service clearances are 0.10-0.25 for all.
Anyway, I wrote a little mistake, it should be like this:
0.18-023 for all opening, and 0.13-0.18 for all closing. I have corrected it now. Still much bigger clearances than older and newer engines...
I have now bought my self a used 748 head to learn the shimming and inspection process on before i examine my own 748......
Would love a copy of your marvellous spread sheet?!?!
Cheers
Peter
I need to finish the sheet as I am building it to hold all the necessary calculation for an engine build such as crank shim, gearbox float and belt tensions. Will then offer it to viewers for a small fee, just need to find the time. 😊
Your video was a winner for me. I'm currently working on a 916 Desmo valve adjustment and your great video gave me new insight into the process. Bravo mate!
Cheers Andrew, glad the video was of use :)
Thank you for teaching..
You are welcome Carlos 👍😎
Hi, is the spreadsheet available yet.
Many thanks
@DesmoWerx when to adjust if you do valve clearance check up. For example If io/ic/ec is 0.12 you allready adjust? With io/ic/ec 0.10 and eo 0.15.
Personally I would look to get as close to 0.1 for a road bike. If they have measured at .12 I would leave it as the shims only come in 0.05 increments. You could get anal and reduce the larger shims to size but thats if you are OCD 🤣
Do you have that spreadsheet to share , great vid and explanations
Hi, I will be making it available soon, just need to find time to finish the sheet 😊
Hi @@DesmoWerx, I'm also interested in the spreadsheet :-)
Nellie ciao, I don't understand in which position the cam(s) should be in order to take / read the actual measurement for opening and closing inlet and outlet.
Can you explain me better?
Hi Trevor, they should be opposite to the full open position for the valve on the opening lobe, this should be the maximum clearance position to allow clearances to be taken. Does that help?
@@DesmoWerx I've seen the video many times, now is more clear. Thank you Nellie!
First of all let me thank you for the videos - all of them. Your videos are of extremely value for all 748 passionates! Amazing!
I've one question and one request though.
Question: I'm currently refurbishing my 34K 748 testa bassa, was thinking on putting some MBP retaining System and EMS shims. Bad or good idea? (Are you using OEMs pieces?).
Request: Where can I make the hand on your Excell file?
Keep on the amazing rebuild and we expect at least a podium in 2019 ! Tks agains for sharing all this knowledge!
Thanks Miguel, glad you are enjoying the build. I think the 748/916/996 series of Ducati's have to be my favourite all though I enjoy working on them all
I have heard that the MBP retaining system is very good, personally never used them though although I would if they were easily available, I use OEM valve retainers but replace them with new half rings at every rebuild as they are cheap enough.
The excel file is still under development as I am currently refining it, I will make it available for others soon, it will also have belt tension settings etc in it - I will also create a video on how to use it in more detail - it will be free though :)
Hello Nellie, your videos are giving me great confidence in taking on my first refresh of a Ducati engine, thank you. I'm about to start re-building my 996 heads, my Haynes manual says that I should be replacing all of the valve closer shim split rings, which was a surprise. Are the split rings damaged/peened in a running engine? I guess that any damage will affect valve clearances? Do you replace all of the split rings? Thank you for your help.
HI Duncan,
I will replace them is they are loose, show signs of damage, during full rebuilds or the engine is not one I have built before so I don't know how long they have been used. They are quite cheap so not an issue to change.
This is a really good series , am currently restoring a 2000 748S and this has been a great help.
Can you tell me where you found the shim calculation software ?
Glad to have helped, I will be making the excel sheet available soon, now in lockdown it will give me more time to add detail that I wanted to add in.
Thanks for this help. Also you are one the few guys who titles this correctly - "Valve clearance adjustment" as opposed to "valve adjustment" which could mean valve timing adjustment which is a whole different thing. Have you done this for thunderbike race bikes? using either offset keys or adjustable pulleys?
Hi Clive and Nicole,
Yes, have to agree it can cause confusion if not explained clearly what you are measuring and changing.
I have done the timing to the Thunderbike Race Bike I built using adjustable pulley's, its hard to get hold of enough off-set keys to play around with the settings
Hi Just watched a few of your videos the best I've seen on these 4 valve engines. I have a 916 engine with a broken cam belt on the horizontal cylinder to do so head off and rebuild , not sure what damage to expect?
I notice a few have asked about the spreadsheet is it available yet.
Thanks.
For meashure the cosing clearanse. We can also meashure between the (loaded) closing rocker arm (the "forks") and the closing shim, right?
HI Jon, no because the keeper spring will be forcing the closing arm against the shim. The closer gap can be measured directly with angled feeler gauges against the cam lobe and rocker arm if you can get access.
@@DesmoWerx Yes but, if you load/press the rocker arm down, against valve spring pressure. ?
Hi, your videos are really good and helpful.
Do you share the excel file for the valve clearance?
Thanks for watching Nathan
I need to finish the sheet as I am building it to hold all the necessary calculation for an engine build such as crank shim, gearbox float and belt tensions. Will then offer it to viewers for a small fee, just need to find the time. 😊
@@DesmoWerx Hello there! I have been enjoying your videos a lot. Very detailed and interesting. Did you end up making this spreadsheet available for a fee? I'm looking at doing the valves on my 996. Do you use race clearance values, as opposed to ducati "street" values?
Hi I’ve just checked the valves on my Ducati 996 and they’re pretty good.a couple of the exhaust closer clearance are a knats goolie out.could I just adjust the shims on the opening clearances to bring the closer clearances into spec.altering the shims on the opening clearances looks a lot easier.be grateful for any advice..great vids by the way👍
HI Andrew, the shims are adjusted in isolation so changing the openers will have no impact on the closer clearance. You will need to change any that are out of spec.
@@DesmoWerx yer cheers for replying. As soon as I posted my message I realised I was talking crap. Ive got my head around it now. Cheers again
Hi, many thanks for sharing your knowledge through these very informative videos, may I ask what opener and closer gap measurements would you use for the 748 with standard cams, currently have mine stripped and gaps and shims measured, there is however a difference in the gaps between the Haynes manual and Ducati workshop manual, in your experience am I better off to set to tighter or looser end of recommended tolerances, I would appreciate any advise, many thanks, Andy
Hi Andrew,
Tighter is better for both longevity of parts and servicing internals. When I build race spec I go to .05mm on Intake Openers/Closers and Exhaust Closer and then 0.1mm on Exhaust Opener. I have had no issues running these tight clearances. If you want some caution then 0.1mm for IO/IC/EC and 0.15mm for EC.
@@DesmoWerx Thanks for the reply, 0.1mm and 0.15mm is what I had already worked out in my head, interesting that the horizontal cylinder is spot on but the vertical is some way out, also flaked rocker, could this be down to the vertical cylinder running hotter, the flaked opener rocker clearance measured 0.08mm, good luck with the ST2
You covered this procedure well. I think I am a little unclear about how much pressure the closing cam applies to the valve to keep it seated. I accept this is a racing engine but all this faffing about and the rubber band cam drives is the reason I've never wanted to own a Ducati!
Hi Ray,
The cam applies direct closing pressure and has a helper spring to assist, the system applies positive pressure to both the opening and closing action which is why they can rev so much higher than a spring based valve assisted system which often need hydraulic or pneumatic assistance to match the Desmo operation.
Having built race and road engines for Honda's, Yamaha, Kwaka's and Ducati's I prefer to work on the Ducati's, much easier with usually fewer components.
Yes the valve adjustment can be protracted but it gets easier on the later Testastretta engines due to better access.
The belt cams are no different to almost every car out there, the benefit of this is that you can easily measure stretch and replace easily if needed.
@@DesmoWerx Thank you for taking the time and trouble to explain this so thoroughly. You are clearly a Ducati advocate. Well done and thanks again.
@@raycollington4310 Absolutely but I also lust after a Honda RC30, sshhhh don't tell anyone lol
Hello DesmoWerx. While installing new opener and closer shims I'm having trouble reinstalling my verticle intake cam on my 916 st4. I see your cams going in easily. Do I have to drop both my intake rockers to reinstall my cam? Vertical cylinder is at TDC but that camshaft jumped about 45 degrees clockwise when I pulled off the belts. Any suggestions? I even reinstalled my original shims to try to get the hang of it. I'd like to see you do a comprehensive camshaft install with a clear view.
Hi Andrew,
The vertical cylinder intake is starting to open the valves when its at TDC for belt removal, that's why it springs back. There is a little tool you can get to hold it in place when reinstalling the belts.
You can find them on ebay like this one:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DUCATI-CAM-BELT-LOCK-TOOL-748-916-996-888-851-DESMOQUATTRO-4V/322620418235?epid=2146959367&hash=item4b1dace8bb:g:vl4AAOSwtVxZerX6&frcectupt=true
To install the cam pull the opening arm pin out about halfway on the side the cam enters and drop the opening arm to the side of the valve, this will give you clearance to remove and insert the cam, just remember to watch the lobes as you push them in.
I will film some footage the next time I am have a head out and post it up.
What computer program do you use for the shim calculation?
It one I created from a sheet I was given for a 2 valve shim check so made it work for 4 valve heads as well 🙂
Hello , I did my valve clearances on the 916 and many gaps are not good .If I look at the Haynes manual , I can see there are many differences between checking and adjusting clearances .Adjusting clearances seem important.I thought to take average in the checking clearances .And can you tell me if opening shim , closing shim , opening and closing rocker are the same for 888 , 916 , 996 engine .thank you for your videos
HI Philippe,
Use the checking clearance if just servicing the valve clearances, adjusting clearances for a full head rebuild.
The rockers and shims etc are more or less the same between the 888, 916 and 996.
Thanks for watching 👍😊
@@DesmoWerx Hello, thank you for the informations and I have one thing I want to know about the shims calculation page on this video .what does mean " SL "in the column Haynes manual . I saw that LT snyder maintenance is an other book for maintenance , what is the difference between us ( because your shimming choice ) ?
Great video thank you, what is the preffered clearance for 2001 ST4 with 916 motor?
Hi John,
Personally I would aim for 0.1mm on all openers and closes except the exhaust opener where I would set up to 0.15mm
Nellie
Can you buy a kit of shims somewhere in the uk?
Regards
Peter
Hi Peter, not that I know of. The only kits I have seen are from the US.
@@DesmoWerx ok so your set you have collected over the years then?
Im thinking about obtaining a second hand 748 complete head to get some practical shim and rocker experience without dismantling my bike. I dont have a ducati dealer local to me particularly so ordering shims individually will add an amount of time....
Anyway... keep up the good work.
Peter
As a new owner to a 748, and ducatis alike, is removing the head recommended when doing valve shim adjustments? Or is it possible with the motor intact in the frame? Which is recommended?
Hi, you can do the valve clearances with the engine still in the frame and the heads do not need to be removed, it is much more challenging to complete due to the angles everything is sat at and the level of access you get, you will have to remove a lot of the bike to get access.
As I can remove an engine in less than an hour I always drop the engine on my bikes, however if the engine has not been out for a while you can run the risk that the swingarm pivot will be seized in the swingarm bearings and removal can be very challenging as a result
It is possible to remove the heads from the engine without removal from the frame
As to recommendation , its easier with the heads off but not required - it comes down to personal choice and how much time and effort you want to put in to doing the job
Hope that helps
Nice setup! How much for me to crate up my 748 motor and send it to you for a good going through?
Whereabouts are you?
Northern MN... I was a young man riding a gsxr because I couldn’t afford a 916 back in the day but loved the Ducati. Now I found a decent 748 and am loving it, dream finally come true! Very little knowledge base tho. The ultimate would be to take a few vacation days and work side by side with a master of all Ducati!
Unfortunately I am in the UK so may make for a long trip to build an engine! I started the same way as you. My first big bike was a GSXR600 and then started racing and found myself on a Duke, great bikes :)
Forum info it seems the most passionate/talented people for vintage Ducati is overseas. I would certainly consider shipping the motor to the right person for a proper refresh, my 748 is my last bike! ws7962@gmail.com Wayne. @@DesmoWerx
True there are a lot of passionate people here but I think the US has quite a strong Ducatisti as well.
There are a couple of dealers who used to race in the US who might be able to help.
Can you share a link of the adjustment shim calculation file?
Hi Raymond,
I am currently refining the sheet to include other auto calculations on the engine build process and also want to convert it to a newer version of Excel
Once I have done that I will likely offer it out to subscribers
DesmoWerx that would be awesome. I’m currently building a genuine 95’ 916Racing and your rebuild videos are great and have helped a bunch.
Thanks,
Raymond
Awesome, would love to build one of the full race versions :)
@@DesmoWerx Subscribed for the good content! Thanks for the excellent walk throughs. Any updated on the shim calculation file? Would be much appreciated ;-)
What a great video! I'm about to buy a 2002 748s ... cannot wait . Is that spread sheet available please?
Also im looking to purchase a used head for a bit of valve shim adjustment R and D .Regards Peter
Would you build my cylinder heads for me? I have new castings and all rocker arms and gaskets plus a shim kit? Could we discuss it thru email. Thanks from Canada.
Drop me a message on the email address on my about page and I will see if I can help