I like that I have the choice for that. I can fill a page with details of abilities and stats for a creature, or I could literally just say, "it's level 5" and be done with it. Or anything in between! It's the range that I love so much.
Having just finished a 4-session adventure in Eberron, with all players but one coming in with no idea how Cypher works, I want to say it's really incredibely easy use the system for typical 5e modules style fantasy adventure. All the statblocks you might have for adversaries are easy to convert (because it's so easy to make "a statblock" in Cypher), most if not all expecatations for low-level D&D (that's what I have experience with) are fulfield easily with character options from the Cypher System Rulebook. Thank you for another great advertisement for Cypher, Qedhup!
@@sanshinobi3664 ah, I see. Sadly, I'm not familiar with the ancient texts. Do you have a trick like that for 5e maybe? Like, is there a reliable method to figure out the creature's level at a glance? Maybe using their AC and HP as the basis?
@@iCanHasRandomness there is no right answer but a starting point would be - get an easy creature, make it level 1. Get the hardest creature, make it level 10. Figure out what you think to be in the middle of those and make it level 5. Now you have an easy reference for where everything else should go. Don’t go with exact stat conversations but where you ‘feel’ they should be.
I've found it to be the system that is quickest for an entire group to pick up. Individual players may do better with other systems, but no one struggles to "get" Cypher.
@@iCanHasRandomness There isn't a magic formula for converting monsters based on hit dice or anything. Just use general common sense references: Lvl 1: Push overs (commoners, kobolds) Lvl 2: Average threats - guards, bandits, orcs Lvl 3: Tougher than average - Squad leaders, Hobgoblins Lvl 4-6: Big monsters and named NPC Lieutenants Lvl 6-8: BBEG's, fiends, dragons Lvl 8-10: Epic foes - Demon Lords, Tarrasque, etc. The neat thing is - if you get it "wrong" you aren't going to break the game with a TPK or your BBEG getting steamrolled. It's also flexible and you can have the same threat be a different Lvl based on the power level of a campaign. An elite CIA assassin could be Level 6 to a group of ruffians, or level 4 to heroic super spies, or Lvl 2 to a super hero.
Great video, I read other ttrpgs all the time and when I finish all the new mechanics and the lore I always end up figuring out how I could do it in Cypher. Then I usually just steal the setting or mood the game was trying to convey. Once you have GM'd Cypher it is so hard to go back to D&D/ORS/5e, Just the pre-work involved with writing some plot points, setting up all the monsters, looking up their stats... I do not miss it.
This was me recently. The amount of time I had to prepare session got limited pretty heavily, and my only option was to go to a rules light/mechanics light system. Friend suggested I look into Cypher - and I don't think I am ever going to go back! You can't beat the character creation, simplicity of encounters, and the focus of your prep being on narrative / explorative elements - instead of the focus of prep being on rules, DCs, and the like. As a player, being pretty free to throw your own spin on things and narrate out what you are doing, and how, is just . . Awesome. I wish more people knew about this system. I think it would be a good introduction into TTRPGs for new GMs and players.
Same. I quit running 5e because game prep felt like homework. My prep for Cypher is just the fun stuff - cool locations, NPC's, set pieces, wild events, truly unique items.
Sounds like a solid and simple system. However, I don't mind utilizing more complex systems as well. I think they both have their place and application. Great video.
You're like me then. I've played and enjoyed just about any system I could get my hands on. I think part of what I like from Cypher is you can choose to make it as crunchy or non-crunchy as you want. I like being able to fine tune it that way. I do still play in other systems though. I have a Pathfinder game tomorrow actually!
I just found your channel and I've been loving your Cypher system content! Some of the most clearly explained videos on Cypher I've found. I'm prepping for a Zelda campaign and decided to use Cypher system for it, so these videos have been helpful for both me and my players as we get to know how it works!
I'm also a big fan of the fact that, if my players smoked an encounter with no problems it's usually because they used effort and depleted their pools. So even if they destroy everything, it still costs them as much as if I dmged them mechanically
Big one: Cypher offloads as much mental work as possible OFF of the GM, freeing you up to focus your attention on the things that make the game more fun and interesting. It's become my go-to system. I have seen a few legit critiques: It's designed to empower good players, not control toxic or antagonistic ones. It doesn't have the guard rails of D&D. I see this as a feature, not a bug. I had a player who really enjoyed the challenge of managing a complex spell list for a full caster in D&D. Cypher didn't offer that same experience. Cypher plays best when run as its own thing, but it doesn't do a good job of steering you to the best play loops. It is too easy to play it just like D&D, but isn't as fun.
what a great video. I need to something similar whenever that procrastination fairy lets go of me. And that bit about adventure ideas at the end? UGH! I felt that... I really felt that...
I agree with this video. I still like d&d for it's more tactical wargaming aspect but Cypher is more my thing now that I'm older and just want to sit down and do stupid stuff
My problem is, I don't think D&D is very interesting as a tactical wargame. 5e isn't mechanically complicated enough to pose a strong mechanical challenge. It's either unfair, or the answer is pretty obvious. If I want a tactical wargame, I'll pick something else.
I love reading the Cypher rules. I enjoy creating a campaign using it. But, the one time I was able to play it, I didn't enjoy it. I suspect that has more to do with the GM than with the system, as they tended to be very railroady. I've been equally unlucky trying to run a game in Cypher, as my normal group loves simulationist rules. They request so many exceptions and add-ons that I just give up.
Yeah, an issue many people have when running Cypher for the first timers is learning to let go and let the players have a much greater agency over the game. It very much requires RPG Aikido. Lots of "yes and", from the GM. If you join the cypher unlimited or even my own, we could probably get you into a better run game to try it out.
What about OSR dungeons like Temple of the Frog or Temple of Elemental Evil or a DCC module like Emerald Enchanter? I'm trying to test a hypothesis with a server of DOOM video game modders. But I've only ever GMd a handful of Numenera sessions. The theory is that DOOM level design goes hand in hand with dungeon crawling. The original creators of DOOM played a lot of AD&D.
The balancing system in 5e has always been my greatest gripe with it, right next to pigeon-holed classes where there are clearly "right" choices to make and "wrong" choices to make. Pathfinder 2e has pretty solid math and mechanics, making balancing easier, but there are A LOT of rules - which keep new players away and make it harder to plan sessions and prep for them. Cypher has a great balancing system, a lot of depth to character creation (similar to PF2e), and the mechanics / rules are super light making planning encounters, towns, adventures SUPER easy. I think other TTRPG players and DMs/GMs should give it a shot just once to see what it is like. I think they'd love it. Edit: Also want to shout out the point about the Cyphers being a "constant thing changing about your character". Love that point - and great video!
I will always support people trying different systems and giving each a fair go before judging them. The same game in the same setting ran with different systems will still different and unique because of what those systems bring to the table. So yeah if someone enjoys what Cypher brings, or even wants to try it out for a first time there's no reason for it to not be a fantasy game. That said I did really try to give Cypher a chance, but it really isn't for me. Played in it 3 times, all different settings, and any fun I had playing with it was fun I had with my friends around a table telling stories together, never something that the system brought to the table. There's an interesting schism in my friend group online, a portion of us really like Cypher and don't like GURPS, while another portion of us love GURPS and just can't get into Cypher.
Good stuff. I have been wanting to run a supers game in Cypher. Been so burned out on D&D its not even fun anymore as a DM. The game is so dam unbalanced its not even funny. People really need to look at other systems. There are so may really good ones out there. Systems far better then D&D.
I gave up on 5e when PF2e came out, as the system math is super tight and balancing is still easy to do even at later levels. But PF2e will always require more session prep and elbow grease because of the increased rules / mechanics. Cypher is that perfect in-between. Simple rules / mechanics and really balanced. Not to mention combat can still be super awesome and crazy, so long as you don't bank on dealing tons of damage. That isn't really what the Cypher combat system is built to do.
@@The_Bean_Machine_ Though I have only read through the Cypher system as well as the Claim the Sky addon I really like it. I hope I can get a supers game going here soon. Something that really appeals to me is going back to theater of the mind. It seems that the vast majority of players want tokens/minis and everything that goes along with it. I tired of all of the prep required when it comes to running a game with that kind of set up. Only to end up not using much of it because the players decide to do something else. And they have that right to and always should be able to. There is just a better way to do it. I feel D&D in its current state is stuck in a sort of board game-like play style at times.
Monogamy isn't for TTRPG's! My favorite RPG's and Systems: 1-Cypher(generic), 2-Teenagers From Outer Space(anime), 3-Gamma World 4E(not based on D&D 4E)(post apocalyptic), 4-All Flesh Must be Eaten(zombie), 5-Battlelords of the 23rd Century(sci-fi), 6-Pathfinder 1E(fantasy), 7-5E(fantasy), 8-Palladium system(generic), 9-AD&D(fantasy), 10-Shadow of the Demon Lord(sci-fantasy/horror) and 11-Star Frontiers(sci-fi)
Number one reason IMO: Your setting is not a high fantasy world. D&D/Pathfinder does a lot of things well, both in narrative and tactical campaigns, but as soon as you are not playing a high magic setting, you have to homebrew and redesign the whole system including new classes, skills and feats. However I don't think Cypher System is anywhere near easy to run, at least compared to the two D&D systems. Encounter balacing is difficult compared to D&D and a lot can go wrong. In D&D a DM can fudge rolls to ensure combat goes to way intended by the plot, in Cypher System there is little you can do when players repeadedly botch their defense rolls. I get why they let the players do the rolls: a successful defense is more satisfying than an enemy's missed attack. But in contrast do D&D, in Cypher System nobody has plot armor.
Building up is not what modern DMs or players want to do. Theres a bit of appeal to traddition and sunk cost fallacy if this were an argument, instead im simply commenting why i think Cypher will never gain ground. Telling you to build it yourself just makes you want to do it yourself. Thats why tear down rules are so appealing.
@@CobaltContrast I mean. According to a ton of people I've talked with, you're wrong. There's plenty that want to build up over tear down. But you do you!
I want to like Cypher. I even tried to create my own Game Universe/conversion for Cypher, based on William Gibson's "The Peripheral". ((But never did anything with it.)) This video, oddly, didn't make me want to return. The idea that characters level up and get better at doing stuff doesn't sound like it matters with a flat difficulty system. ((Though I suppose a goblin that is Diff 4 to a lower level character would slide down to a Diff 1 or 2 for a higher level party?))
I mean, with Cypher I wouldn't call it flat and you definitely get stronger as you tier, but in ways that are different than DnD and PF. Mostly it boils down to Effort and Pool. At base, a tier 1 doing a medium attack does the same DMG as a tier 6, that is until you start factoring in Effort when it becomes 4 DMG at tier 1 and more like 20 at tier 4, let alone new abilties to make that better.
If you compare PF2e and Cypher in regards to CR, it boils down to this: - In PF2e, a CR 1 creature is = to the Party Level at Level 1. - In Cypher, a CR 1 creature is not = to the Party Level and won't be considered a challenge unless you have a *literal* horde of them (as per the rulebook). You need about a half a dozen to a dozen CR 3 to challenge a party of Tier 1 characters. That's because you start off stronger in Cypher than 5e or PF2e. I would say Tier 1 in Cypher = Level 5 in PF2e / 5e. Also, as you gain levels in PF2e / 5e, the CR 1 creature just becomes a nuisance. Kobolds and Goblins you just meat-grind through. Same for Cypher, but even when you start, those low CR creatures are already just a nuisance. Still, as you gain Tiers, higher CR monsters become easier to tackle. It wouldn't be fair otherwise. I think what this does for GMs, is I can create an encounter with staggered CR creatures. Some CR 1s to get in the way, a CR 5 (15 to hit) big boss, and a few stronger minions of CR 2 or 3 - leading to a much more dynamic encounter. With PF2e and 5e there is a formula for how strong you want the encounter to be, how much EXP you can spend to "purchase" monsters, and that is your limit. Cypher doesn't really have that, because there isn't really a way to "balance" an encounter. It is just, what you think is reasonable for the party to chew through, what makes for an interesting encounter, and the knowledge that the party can run away at any time - come back later - and try again. You don't level by defeating monsters in Cypher, which makes you less dependent on successful encounters to win the game.
@@The_Bean_Machine_ don’t forget that a group or horde of a singular type of creature you make as a higher level making the group already more threatening than 12 individuals of the original creature. (Also makes play faster and more fun)
PC's definitely get stronger in Cypher. The power slope is different. D&D is a really steep slope from just above average commoner to godlike powers. The power slope in Cypher starts higher, but is a shallower power gain. Say your baddy is a big dragon. A Level 1 D&D character gets instakilled. Around Level 10, they're beating that same dragon up and it's not even fair. By Level 20, they keep it as a house pet. In Cypher, that starting character isn't going to win a fight, but will have an interesting encounter escaping from the dragon. By Tier 3, they're taking it one in a fair (but tense fight). At Tier 6 they know they can take it, but it's a serious threat. Cypher is more like the power progression in a Shooter like DOOM.
Building up is not what modern DMs or players want to do. Theres a bit of appeal to traddition and sunk cost fallacy if this were an argument, instead im simply commenting why i think Cypher will never gain ground. Telling you to build it yourself just makes you want to do it yourself. Thats why tear down rules are so appealing.
Making up creatures and challenges is so dead simple. By far my favorite part of the system.
I like that I have the choice for that. I can fill a page with details of abilities and stats for a creature, or I could literally just say, "it's level 5" and be done with it. Or anything in between! It's the range that I love so much.
@@Qedhup yup. A ton easier to prep and I can just sit back and riff off the party.
Having just finished a 4-session adventure in Eberron, with all players but one coming in with no idea how Cypher works, I want to say it's really incredibely easy use the system for typical 5e modules style fantasy adventure.
All the statblocks you might have for adversaries are easy to convert (because it's so easy to make "a statblock" in Cypher), most if not all expecatations for low-level D&D (that's what I have experience with) are fulfield easily with character options from the Cypher System Rulebook.
Thank you for another great advertisement for Cypher, Qedhup!
Is it that easy, though? What's your process? Maybe I'm doing something wrong but magic and monsters are the biggest roadlocks for me.
@@sanshinobi3664 ah, I see. Sadly, I'm not familiar with the ancient texts. Do you have a trick like that for 5e maybe? Like, is there a reliable method to figure out the creature's level at a glance? Maybe using their AC and HP as the basis?
@@iCanHasRandomness there is no right answer but a starting point would be - get an easy creature, make it level 1. Get the hardest creature, make it level 10. Figure out what you think to be in the middle of those and make it level 5. Now you have an easy reference for where everything else should go. Don’t go with exact stat conversations but where you ‘feel’ they should be.
I've found it to be the system that is quickest for an entire group to pick up. Individual players may do better with other systems, but no one struggles to "get" Cypher.
@@iCanHasRandomness There isn't a magic formula for converting monsters based on hit dice or anything. Just use general common sense references:
Lvl 1: Push overs (commoners, kobolds)
Lvl 2: Average threats - guards, bandits, orcs
Lvl 3: Tougher than average - Squad leaders, Hobgoblins
Lvl 4-6: Big monsters and named NPC Lieutenants
Lvl 6-8: BBEG's, fiends, dragons
Lvl 8-10: Epic foes - Demon Lords, Tarrasque, etc.
The neat thing is - if you get it "wrong" you aren't going to break the game with a TPK or your BBEG getting steamrolled.
It's also flexible and you can have the same threat be a different Lvl based on the power level of a campaign. An elite CIA assassin could be Level 6 to a group of ruffians, or level 4 to heroic super spies, or Lvl 2 to a super hero.
Great video, I read other ttrpgs all the time and when I finish all the new mechanics and the lore I always end up figuring out how I could do it in Cypher. Then I usually just steal the setting or mood the game was trying to convey. Once you have GM'd Cypher it is so hard to go back to D&D/ORS/5e, Just the pre-work involved with writing some plot points, setting up all the monsters, looking up their stats... I do not miss it.
This was me recently. The amount of time I had to prepare session got limited pretty heavily, and my only option was to go to a rules light/mechanics light system. Friend suggested I look into Cypher - and I don't think I am ever going to go back! You can't beat the character creation, simplicity of encounters, and the focus of your prep being on narrative / explorative elements - instead of the focus of prep being on rules, DCs, and the like. As a player, being pretty free to throw your own spin on things and narrate out what you are doing, and how, is just . . Awesome.
I wish more people knew about this system. I think it would be a good introduction into TTRPGs for new GMs and players.
Same. I quit running 5e because game prep felt like homework. My prep for Cypher is just the fun stuff - cool locations, NPC's, set pieces, wild events, truly unique items.
In a Discord server I'm in I became the looney cypher preacher but I keep trying to get people interested in at least trying.
Sounds like a solid and simple system. However, I don't mind utilizing more complex systems as well. I think they both have their place and application. Great video.
You're like me then. I've played and enjoyed just about any system I could get my hands on. I think part of what I like from Cypher is you can choose to make it as crunchy or non-crunchy as you want. I like being able to fine tune it that way.
I do still play in other systems though. I have a Pathfinder game tomorrow actually!
And I like that approach, you've definitely sold me on Cypher and I'm eager to try it out. Many thanks.@@Qedhup
I just found your channel and I've been loving your Cypher system content! Some of the most clearly explained videos on Cypher I've found. I'm prepping for a Zelda campaign and decided to use Cypher system for it, so these videos have been helpful for both me and my players as we get to know how it works!
Another great video from Qedhup!
I love this system, never had a game yet tho lol
Just own most of the books
Love it! I'm going to be DMing my first Cypher System game early November. I'll be using the Castaway one shot. So excited.
I'm also a big fan of the fact that, if my players smoked an encounter with no problems it's usually because they used effort and depleted their pools. So even if they destroy everything, it still costs them as much as if I dmged them mechanically
Oof... my voice sounds rough in this one ( I recorded it like super late at night lol)
Didn't even notice, you sound great! 😊
bro, what? your voice is crazy good!
Big one: Cypher offloads as much mental work as possible OFF of the GM, freeing you up to focus your attention on the things that make the game more fun and interesting.
It's become my go-to system. I have seen a few legit critiques:
It's designed to empower good players, not control toxic or antagonistic ones. It doesn't have the guard rails of D&D. I see this as a feature, not a bug.
I had a player who really enjoyed the challenge of managing a complex spell list for a full caster in D&D. Cypher didn't offer that same experience.
Cypher plays best when run as its own thing, but it doesn't do a good job of steering you to the best play loops. It is too easy to play it just like D&D, but isn't as fun.
Good stuff. I hadn't thought about some of these exact reasons, but they're great ideas.
what a great video. I need to something similar whenever that procrastination fairy lets go of me.
And that bit about adventure ideas at the end? UGH! I felt that... I really felt that...
Another video as always!
So well put!
I agree with this video. I still like d&d for it's more tactical wargaming aspect but Cypher is more my thing now that I'm older and just want to sit down and do stupid stuff
My problem is, I don't think D&D is very interesting as a tactical wargame. 5e isn't mechanically complicated enough to pose a strong mechanical challenge. It's either unfair, or the answer is pretty obvious.
If I want a tactical wargame, I'll pick something else.
I love reading the Cypher rules. I enjoy creating a campaign using it. But, the one time I was able to play it, I didn't enjoy it. I suspect that has more to do with the GM than with the system, as they tended to be very railroady.
I've been equally unlucky trying to run a game in Cypher, as my normal group loves simulationist rules. They request so many exceptions and add-ons that I just give up.
Yeah, an issue many people have when running Cypher for the first timers is learning to let go and let the players have a much greater agency over the game. It very much requires RPG Aikido. Lots of "yes and", from the GM.
If you join the cypher unlimited or even my own, we could probably get you into a better run game to try it out.
What about OSR dungeons like Temple of the Frog or Temple of Elemental Evil or a DCC module like Emerald Enchanter? I'm trying to test a hypothesis with a server of DOOM video game modders. But I've only ever GMd a handful of Numenera sessions. The theory is that DOOM level design goes hand in hand with dungeon crawling. The original creators of DOOM played a lot of AD&D.
The balancing system in 5e has always been my greatest gripe with it, right next to pigeon-holed classes where there are clearly "right" choices to make and "wrong" choices to make. Pathfinder 2e has pretty solid math and mechanics, making balancing easier, but there are A LOT of rules - which keep new players away and make it harder to plan sessions and prep for them.
Cypher has a great balancing system, a lot of depth to character creation (similar to PF2e), and the mechanics / rules are super light making planning encounters, towns, adventures SUPER easy.
I think other TTRPG players and DMs/GMs should give it a shot just once to see what it is like. I think they'd love it.
Edit: Also want to shout out the point about the Cyphers being a "constant thing changing about your character". Love that point - and great video!
I will always support people trying different systems and giving each a fair go before judging them. The same game in the same setting ran with different systems will still different and unique because of what those systems bring to the table. So yeah if someone enjoys what Cypher brings, or even wants to try it out for a first time there's no reason for it to not be a fantasy game.
That said I did really try to give Cypher a chance, but it really isn't for me. Played in it 3 times, all different settings, and any fun I had playing with it was fun I had with my friends around a table telling stories together, never something that the system brought to the table. There's an interesting schism in my friend group online, a portion of us really like Cypher and don't like GURPS, while another portion of us love GURPS and just can't get into Cypher.
Good stuff. I have been wanting to run a supers game in Cypher. Been so burned out on D&D its not even fun anymore as a DM. The game is so dam unbalanced its not even funny. People really need to look at other systems. There are so may really good ones out there. Systems far better then D&D.
I gave up on 5e when PF2e came out, as the system math is super tight and balancing is still easy to do even at later levels. But PF2e will always require more session prep and elbow grease because of the increased rules / mechanics.
Cypher is that perfect in-between. Simple rules / mechanics and really balanced. Not to mention combat can still be super awesome and crazy, so long as you don't bank on dealing tons of damage. That isn't really what the Cypher combat system is built to do.
@@The_Bean_Machine_ Though I have only read through the Cypher system as well as the Claim the Sky addon I really like it. I hope I can get a supers game going here soon. Something that really appeals to me is going back to theater of the mind. It seems that the vast majority of players want tokens/minis and everything that goes along with it. I tired of all of the prep required when it comes to running a game with that kind of set up. Only to end up not using much of it because the players decide to do something else. And they have that right to and always should be able to. There is just a better way to do it. I feel D&D in its current state is stuck in a sort of board game-like play style at times.
Monogamy isn't for TTRPG's!
My favorite RPG's and Systems: 1-Cypher(generic), 2-Teenagers From Outer Space(anime), 3-Gamma World 4E(not based on D&D 4E)(post apocalyptic), 4-All Flesh Must be Eaten(zombie), 5-Battlelords of the 23rd Century(sci-fi), 6-Pathfinder 1E(fantasy), 7-5E(fantasy), 8-Palladium system(generic), 9-AD&D(fantasy), 10-Shadow of the Demon Lord(sci-fantasy/horror) and 11-Star Frontiers(sci-fi)
Monogamy isn't for RPG's. lol. I'm stealing that.
@@QedhupI have no problem with that, That has been my motto for years!
Number one reason IMO: Your setting is not a high fantasy world. D&D/Pathfinder does a lot of things well, both in narrative and tactical campaigns, but as soon as you are not playing a high magic setting, you have to homebrew and redesign the whole system including new classes, skills and feats.
However I don't think Cypher System is anywhere near easy to run, at least compared to the two D&D systems. Encounter balacing is difficult compared to D&D and a lot can go wrong. In D&D a DM can fudge rolls to ensure combat goes to way intended by the plot, in Cypher System there is little you can do when players repeadedly botch their defense rolls. I get why they let the players do the rolls: a successful defense is more satisfying than an enemy's missed attack. But in contrast do D&D, in Cypher System nobody has plot armor.
Building up is not what modern DMs or players want to do. Theres a bit of appeal to traddition and sunk cost fallacy if this were an argument, instead im simply commenting why i think Cypher will never gain ground. Telling you to build it yourself just makes you want to do it yourself. Thats why tear down rules are so appealing.
@@CobaltContrast I mean. According to a ton of people I've talked with, you're wrong. There's plenty that want to build up over tear down. But you do you!
Do you have a good rules or source for running cypher battles on a grid map? I always prefered such battles over the unconcrete rules
Does Cypher have good rules for procedural dungeon delves or hex crawls? Or is there a good supplement for it?
Technically yes. One of the Numenera books actually has full tables for generating some pretty comprehensive dungeons. I think it's Jade Colossus?
@@Qedhup thanks! I'll look into it.
I want to like Cypher. I even tried to create my own Game Universe/conversion for Cypher, based on William Gibson's "The Peripheral". ((But never did anything with it.)) This video, oddly, didn't make me want to return. The idea that characters level up and get better at doing stuff doesn't sound like it matters with a flat difficulty system. ((Though I suppose a goblin that is Diff 4 to a lower level character would slide down to a Diff 1 or 2 for a higher level party?))
I mean, with Cypher I wouldn't call it flat and you definitely get stronger as you tier, but in ways that are different than DnD and PF. Mostly it boils down to Effort and Pool. At base, a tier 1 doing a medium attack does the same DMG as a tier 6, that is until you start factoring in Effort when it becomes 4 DMG at tier 1 and more like 20 at tier 4, let alone new abilties to make that better.
If you compare PF2e and Cypher in regards to CR, it boils down to this:
- In PF2e, a CR 1 creature is = to the Party Level at Level 1.
- In Cypher, a CR 1 creature is not = to the Party Level and won't be considered a challenge unless you have a *literal* horde of them (as per the rulebook). You need about a half a dozen to a dozen CR 3 to challenge a party of Tier 1 characters.
That's because you start off stronger in Cypher than 5e or PF2e. I would say Tier 1 in Cypher = Level 5 in PF2e / 5e.
Also, as you gain levels in PF2e / 5e, the CR 1 creature just becomes a nuisance. Kobolds and Goblins you just meat-grind through. Same for Cypher, but even when you start, those low CR creatures are already just a nuisance. Still, as you gain Tiers, higher CR monsters become easier to tackle. It wouldn't be fair otherwise.
I think what this does for GMs, is I can create an encounter with staggered CR creatures. Some CR 1s to get in the way, a CR 5 (15 to hit) big boss, and a few stronger minions of CR 2 or 3 - leading to a much more dynamic encounter. With PF2e and 5e there is a formula for how strong you want the encounter to be, how much EXP you can spend to "purchase" monsters, and that is your limit. Cypher doesn't really have that, because there isn't really a way to "balance" an encounter. It is just, what you think is reasonable for the party to chew through, what makes for an interesting encounter, and the knowledge that the party can run away at any time - come back later - and try again.
You don't level by defeating monsters in Cypher, which makes you less dependent on successful encounters to win the game.
@@The_Bean_Machine_ don’t forget that a group or horde of a singular type of creature you make as a higher level making the group already more threatening than 12 individuals of the original creature. (Also makes play faster and more fun)
PC's definitely get stronger in Cypher. The power slope is different. D&D is a really steep slope from just above average commoner to godlike powers. The power slope in Cypher starts higher, but is a shallower power gain.
Say your baddy is a big dragon. A Level 1 D&D character gets instakilled. Around Level 10, they're beating that same dragon up and it's not even fair. By Level 20, they keep it as a house pet.
In Cypher, that starting character isn't going to win a fight, but will have an interesting encounter escaping from the dragon. By Tier 3, they're taking it one in a fair (but tense fight). At Tier 6 they know they can take it, but it's a serious threat.
Cypher is more like the power progression in a Shooter like DOOM.
@@Variarte_ Absolutely correct!
Building up is not what modern DMs or players want to do. Theres a bit of appeal to traddition and sunk cost fallacy if this were an argument, instead im simply commenting why i think Cypher will never gain ground. Telling you to build it yourself just makes you want to do it yourself. Thats why tear down rules are so appealing.