It's unbelievable that many customers will spend thousands on holidays, cars, whatever, yet when it comes to upgrades they all seem to put it off for another day. Its kind of " well everything has worked ok for years like that so why bother? " An attitude we come across from time to time. Excellent video as usual.
To me that's just crazy - you're spending £40k on a car (a depreciating asset) but won't invest £10k on your house to make it safe and increase its value...
@genuine74boomer A car will get you to work, a car will get you to social events, a car is somewhat of a necessity. A rewire of your house won't offer a monetary return on your investment anywhere near what it would cost you to do. House insurance will cover it in the case of a fire. A fault condition could happen but they've lived their 40 years and that's a lot of "meh, nothings happened yet" to get past. Unless you regularly have electrical work done on your home, chances are you're unaware it's unsafe. So it's completely understandable they don't have several tens of thousands necessary for a full rewire and redecoration of their home at the first suggestion that they should upgrade.
You did the right thing, new DB, bonding sorted, nice install, not taking responsibility for the rest of the property. Also good that you future proofed for the DB upgrade with a large board
It’s straightforward, shouldn’t waste time fretting about it. Second DB, ensure main bonding and install EV. Customer might want a new DB but has no idea what can and can’t be done. As the professional it’s up to you to guide him which you have done. Good job 👍
Great video, as usual Jordan. A couple of points: (a) it is normally better to angle any holes through the wall slightly upwards, so that any rainwater won't flow into the house ( I know you siliconed it, but it's still better to let gravity help you!) (b) I always worry a bit when modifying bonding etc, in case a fault were to develop, perhaps in the incoming supply, so that for a short while, different earth wires were at different potential. Then if you have one hand on one earth conductor and the other on a different earth conductor, you might get a belt, or worse. In can be enlightening to measure the voltage between earth conductors after you have just separated them!
Was going to say the same thing about the hole - learned that one from a DNO fitter. Not only does it help prevent water ingress, but it also makes the cables sit nicer on rising feeds.
You did right thing given the situation. You made everything safe as you can and put in a board big enough to accommodate a rewire in the future and saving him a bit of money down the road. Hopefully the customer decides to do a rewire sooner rather then later. And you will likely get the job since you've done right this time around.
Realistically the 6mm bonding on a tns supply is fine . It’s only a code C3 on tncs if it has no signs of thermal damage . But personally I’d probably upgrade my self if it’s possible.
having your channel not only helps teach others but also helps to grow your business as people can recommend you and your subscribers can be your customers just like this one .
As you you do more of the EV installs, this will become common place. Recommending the customer updates Consumer unit and or wiring at a later date as you'd be inclined to do more work that some customers will expect as part of the EV install?
Difficult one with the right solution in the end. As demand increases this going to become a very common problem so discrete installation is best approach unless it’s seen as an opp for additional work
Tough one that - I think that you probably took the right approach in doing the bonding and new CU, but my personal view is that given the age and condition of the rest of the installation I would not be willing to undertake further work without a significant rewire & that would be made clear on all paperwork that I issued. Swapping switches and fittings for Class II is a bodge that I would only ever be acceptable (in my opinion) as an interim/emergency measure pending the rewire. The customer may not want the disruption or cost of the rewire, but it beats the hell out of someone getting seriously injured or a fire happening.
I would go ahead and fit a separate board for the EV charger under those circumstances. Recommend to the customer an EICR for the main installation, and also mention this in your test sheets to keep yourself right. Good video .
I always do EICR 's before a board change for this exact reason and there are always issues that need to be resolved before the CU can be upgraded. I honestly don't understand how any decent spark can do a board change before an EICR. You totally made the right decision, you couldn't do a board change when you know there are dangerous issues. If the customer got a fatal electric shock off a metal light switch even years down the line, it would be you in front of a judge
Whenever I drill for wall anchors / plugs ( whatever is called locally) I usually have a can of compressed air to clean the hole from whatever remained in the drilling. Makes for a better joint.
Even though it is not necessary (even according to Am2 regs) I love the idea of using black conduit to disguise the Bonding conductors, much better looking than unprotected green and yellow cable. :-)
Tip for the tp4b, your electricians hammer will fit through the leather bit at the top, across the bag, giving you an extra pocket on the main part. I do this on my tp5b and it keeps it well out the way til i need it and doesn't get in the way of the handle
Excellent job, I agree with everything you’ve done. I would have upgraded the bonds as well as new install. The client has EICR, so he knows the risks involved. In old installs where there are quite a few problems, such as that one, it is written within the quotation that if the client goes down the repair route, there is always an element of risk of what you may uncover & the client would still have to pay regardless of the outcome. An example, property has all accessories replaced, sorting out loose connections, & open ring conductors, new consumer unit fitted, only to discover once the consumer was fitted that the return path (neutral) for some of the downstairs lights was through a ring final circuit.
Great to see you made it safe as you can. Old electric installations are a pain to upgrade though mostly dangerous when drawing modern power consumption. You should have given him a volt stick to check any metal fixings before touching them. 😉
Think I would have chucked the shower in the new board too for what it is and gotten rid of that mini fuse board. Other than that, not worth doing much more.
Did i get it correctly that the black pvc pipe on the outside was to connect the eart cable? So this house did not have an earth rail near the consumer unit?
This might be a daft question, but if you're not upgrading the CU. Why does the bonding need to be changed? Isn't it a case of it applied to the old regs at the time?
You could of changed the CU without taking responsibility for the entire installation if stipulated in a written contract. After all you can't make the installation less safe by having everything put onto rcbo/rcd's and mini circuit breakers (though they may trip due to untested issues - leakage etc). Oh just as an FYI you should do a continuity test on the gas bond, one it's not before the first Tee but more importantly if they made the steel pipe joints with a setting compound (which isn't a done thing these days) you may not actually have bonded anything but the new copper supply as you wont always find you have continuity across the joints. Do love how tidy your installs are, would of bonded the metal down pipe though!
Mark Langley Metal downpipe needed a 22k ohms test to confirm if extraneous. Lots of times pipework of that nature although seemingly “earthy” turns out not requiring to be bonded and doing so then introduces a hazard which previously didn’t exist.
I mean that is true but it opens the can of worms where he could of installed and the RCD or breakers will trip and he will be there fault finding forever and will Just end up rewiring anyway
@@jamiethompson4549 think he took on the job just to make a UA-cam film,let's face it he new what it was like before he got there and having to travel 1 hour each way,I would of not given it the time of day 👍
Noticed you put the Zappi on a Type B 32amp rather than a Type A. Is the inbuilt protection in the Zappi V2 not sufficient to prevent DC residual currents exceeding 6 mA? Or are you going belt and braces by fitting the Type B.
Hi, I have a question. I have the 10-30 dryer outlet ( w/50A Breaker )on my garage wall, and I am only using the gas dryer. I bought the new Gen 2 NEMA 10-30 Adapters from Tesla. Every time when I charge my 2021 Model 3, the first few minutes it can get 25mi/ hr , 24/24A 236v , but after 5-10 mins, it drops to 12mi/hr 12/12A 236V automatically . And couldn't manually adjust back to 25mi/ hr , 24/24A 236v again. Do you know what is going on ? Why it drops from 24v to 12A automatically ? I hope you can help me.
As soon as I discovered there was no working earth in the house I took over from my late parents I started a full rewire straight away. I will need new ceilings and a lot of decorating after this, but so be it. The earth from the consumer unit was bonded to the water pipe, but as the water mains to the house was replaced with plastic pipe there was no actual earth, beside that both CPRs didn't work at all. So first job was driving an earth pin, now I'm into rewiring the house and doing some changes and upgrades. New consumer unit in and get it signed off and I can live in a safe house. What does a shiny new EV mean if your house burns down?
Are the Hager boxes the best? Ive got a 17th edition which is plastic and the surronds all broke. I was just wondering which are the best boxes to use?
Did you do this through the grant? Only reason I ask is in Part C, section 2 of the EVHS form it states that you have confirmed the existing install is compliant with current BS7671 and you can evident this if required.
Would have liked to see how you connected the gas bond with the loop to the water. Which earth clamp did you use as looping a 10mm is always a challenge
Totally agree, The majority of clients just don’t get it, because it works. How many times do you come across a beautifully decorated & well presented property & the electrical installation is shocking.
With the zappi having typeA rcd protection built in. If you had a dual rcd board would it be bad practice to connect the supply to type ac rcd if the supply cable requires rcd protection or if there was no room etc for a small ccu?
Which tester do you use to test the Zappy? When I enquired with My energi they recommended the Metrel or the Megger testers . Also do you use a EVSE test box ? You need all of these to be approved by My energy.
This is the hardest part in the life of an electrician. It's like finding a stick of dynamite under the floor and saying 'well its been there for 40 years, let's just leave it'.
Hi Jordan, great video. How did you isolate the supply to fit the new junction box for the tails? Should there be an isolation switch? Cheers, take care.
I would have fitted the charger, but only whit der Limitation to do a complet rewire in the next 4 or 6 months....Im sorry if I write something wrong or so I'm from Germany so I'm not a native english speaker.... By the way nice video and I find it interessting to see other countries electrical instalations and all the diefrent things like ring circuts or the ECIR inspections. I'm doing at the moment a rewire of my Grandmothers house the instalation is from the late 50 so its a big mess. And no panik I have a license and I'm working whit a local compay together. I can send you a few pictures if you want to make a Video about it if you want...
No need to apologise mate. Your English is more or less spot on. A lot better than my German. Done two years of it in School. Only language I ever enjoyed learning. Shame 18 years on, I can't remember a word.
I like your level-headed approach. you dealt with the EV point firstly, to meet the original requirements, AND you made it easier for future upgrades. Then tackled the historic wiring seperately (according to the comments), improved it, and made it safer. Everything you did improved what was already there.
You can only make recommendations. I would recommend a rewire, put the faults in writing. Explain you can't change the boards at the moment. Then just fit a new DB for the charging point, do the MEB's and Bob's your uncle.
The honest thing to do is put the small secondary consumer unit in for the ev charger and inform the customer he needs a full rewire. This sorts out the new car arriving and gives the customer the option to get the rewire from whoever he wants. That way you are not holding him to ransome, you are doing the ev charger job and giving good advice and customer service as well as adhering to safety regs on the house. And let's face it, if you show this high level of customer service, putting the customer first, you will probably get the rewire job as well.
Hi Jordan, just want to ask whether it's ok with regs to loop bonding between gas and water with one 10mm earthing conductor? Thank you for any answers
Yes you can! The conductor just has to be continuous so that if someone disconnects one it doesn't remove continuity to the other if you see what I mean. So you just loop straight through without cutting the copper, just strip the insulation off.
@@artisanelectrics thnx for getting back to me.. watching a lot of yours videos during Xmas break, really enjoying it !! Cant wait to see end of 2021 summary 😀
In CZ we have "old" system called TN-C, which uses only two wires too, but it does not mean it is without protection at all, basicly neutral wire is connected to applience as well as to its metal housing.
I was under the impression that if there are any C1 or C2 issues on an installation a fuseboard upgrade is not permitted until they are rectified, so that wouldn't have been an option, unless I'm mistaken?
Yes, Henley blocks and a db2 for the ev charger, then replace bonding conductors. Then later on if customer agrees to a full rewire, get it done then, can of worms if done any other way as customer receives his car tomorrow. That aside, the installation looks awful and needs replacing yesterday.
I'm not familiar with regs, but from a technical standpoint, could a solution to unearthed lighting cabling be to run it through an isolating transformer?
I'm not an electrician (though work professionally on mobile power sources and their associated safety issues) but I'm fairly sure the regs wouldn't allow this. The problem is that an isolated supply to more than one appliance could develop an earth fault on one conductor without being noticed, leaving the other conductor live and dangerous. An earth monitoring device would be required, and some installations (on board ships, I think) use this. I suppose you could install a centre-tapped 110V site transformer and fit bulbs imported from the USA, but that could get inconvenient!
Nothing to do with money. More likely they do not want to re-plaster every single wall in their home along with replacing every single floor covering. Dan B, don't be so aggressive towards people who can afford 160,000,000,000,000.97 pound cars, you may find that your idea about how much those cost is bs.
It’s a horrible compromise. At least you are doing all the things you need to make the installation safe. However i think you will still find a few surprises when you changeover the fittings.
rewire the house and get the lights on kinectic switches , mostly damage will be on sockets and from taking out the floor boxes , for the heating hive stat and its a easy quick job
The block should have been rectified. The shroud is only normally intended for use on a dangerous cut out. All meter fitters carry blocks and isolators for such situations.
I know Zappi’s have inbuilt RCD protection, but given you’ve wired the new circuit in T&E, and not SWA, albeit a very short run, shouldn’t it have an RCBO upfront?
I wouldn't even consider changing the board. Would just advise house needs re wiring. Would have done same as you re the charging point put it on its own separate board.
The last rewire I did was because the customer said I can’t see what I’m paying for🤭, I did respond with , well I could of clipped all the cables on your wallpaper 😮, I find people consider it as a grudge buy which is understandable. Having said that there are some who do appreciate the importance of it all .
You just scared me! Drilling the hole for the zappy was downwards from out to in. What a bad way to let water into the building, always uphill from outside to prevent water ingress. Even with the best sealant, that's the best prevention.
That plastic crap over the henly block was installed by whoever installed the smart meter i suspect, presumibly because they thought it was possible to touch live parts. Also, what the hell is that SKU1 cellular box? I would assume smart meter related but it looks like it is not connected in any way to the smart meter. Strange.
Yes the meter fitter would have installed the plastic shroud and given the customer a warning that something was unsafe. Though actually fitters are supposed to replace dangerous blocks and tidy cables themselves. So something isn't right there. The comms hub is for the gas meter, and is normally fitted underneath an existing "dumb" meter or incompatible smart electric meter, but it can be installed separately if really necessary. I suspect what we have here just a very lazy meter fitter who left a sub-standard installation to get the job done quicker.
2 days ago I had precisely the same situation.. But our rules different.? Your not compelled to upgrade "other" circuitry unless it's truly unsafe, just consider surely RCD and MCB upgrade is an enormous safety improvement on before. And can negate the need for earthing in some areas. Stage 2: repair "other" circuits
The clear plastic would have been fitted by British Gas - They use that if there is exposed copper or a potential dangerous situation, It basically allows them to walk away knowing a customer cannot touch a live part. - You can see the British Gas Smart Metering sticker to the left of the meter.
Good channel Jordan Just wondering are you now just going to do EV units or keep a varied workscope? I'm a sparky in Australia where all Electricians are Licensed but our wiring rules are inferior to yours. Look forward to the day when we ditch fuseboxes made of singles and made of asbestos. Hopefully we get arc fault rcbos soon Regards David in Peel Australia
As a company we will still be offering the full range of services but I will focus on the EV installs myself and hey the other guys to do the other jobs
I live in the apartment block on a 3rd floor and our electricity meter is on the ground floor along with everyone else's. You mention gas meter and water pipes, why is this relevant? I am praying for some company to agree to install Charging point for me...doesnt look promising though.
Yeah its tough when you're in an apartment block... Gas and Water needs to be bonded as part of the safety regulations and we have to check this when doing the certificate.
You said it yourself - if you touch the existing - especially if you fit a new CU - you are taking responsibility for the installation. At the very least - if you fitted a new CU ( which will of course include RCD's) - then you are almost certain to fall foul of nuisance tripping. ( at least you would fit RCBO's on every cct to ease fault finding in that case ?? ) and at worse - something bad really happens ... and the customer will utter the famous phrase " it was alright till you touched it" . As someone else has said - this customer has got his priorities TOTALLY wrong !! Buys an EV ( which isn't cheap) yet is happy to "drive" a 40 years old "electric house vehicle " which hasn't been serviced in years
I’m a 2nd year apprentice, If I was in your boots I’d apply do to it at college and apply to as many as you can, even while you do college, because the college work is basically the same for both apprentices and fulltimers at college. If you dont get one before college starts, then just keep applying while doing college.
Hi sir Definitely not an easy decision to make . My personal position is if the installation is non compliant , I would not proceed in doing work . Yes changing fixtures and fittings to plastic will minimise potential shock danger. But will give no. Guarantee against fire. You fitting a new D.B was definitely the way to go . Removing any responsibility to the existing wiring . But I can fully appreciate the position you were in . It might be worth along with test certificates , sending written letter voicing your. Concerns and recommendations. So no one say a family member decides to imply you should have done more. And of course keep a copy for your records. Sounds O T T but as a company it proved useful at times . Even if just doing the separate dis board. Basically it gives you an added protection against any litigation . Test certificates are all well and good . But there’s nothing like a letter for focusing the mind . Best wishes and kind regards mike in the U.K.
For comment only ( obviously to maybe help you next time unless you weren’t aware) the earth bonding on the gas pipe should be before any tee on the gas pipe. Great work though.
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It's unbelievable that many customers will spend thousands on holidays, cars, whatever, yet when it comes to upgrades they all seem to put it off for another day. Its kind of " well everything has worked ok for years like that so why bother? " An attitude we come across from time to time.
Excellent video as usual.
To me that's just crazy - you're spending £40k on a car (a depreciating asset) but won't invest £10k on your house to make it safe and increase its value...
@genuine74boomer A car will get you to work, a car will get you to social events, a car is somewhat of a necessity.
A rewire of your house won't offer a monetary return on your investment anywhere near what it would cost you to do.
House insurance will cover it in the case of a fire. A fault condition could happen but they've lived their 40 years and that's a lot of "meh, nothings happened yet" to get past.
Unless you regularly have electrical work done on your home, chances are you're unaware it's unsafe. So it's completely understandable they don't have several tens of thousands necessary for a full rewire and redecoration of their home at the first suggestion that they should upgrade.
You did the right thing, new DB, bonding sorted, nice install, not taking responsibility for the rest of the property. Also good that you future proofed for the DB upgrade with a large board
Hmmm
Bonding has to be within 600mm from the outlet and or before any T connection..
Here the gentleman fitted it after the T.
It’s straightforward, shouldn’t waste time fretting about it. Second DB, ensure main bonding and install EV. Customer might want a new DB but has no idea what can and can’t be done. As the professional it’s up to you to guide him which you have done. Good job 👍
Great video, as usual Jordan. A couple of points: (a) it is normally better to angle any holes through the wall slightly upwards, so that any rainwater won't flow into the house ( I know you siliconed it, but it's still better to let gravity help you!) (b) I always worry a bit when modifying bonding etc, in case a fault were to develop, perhaps in the incoming supply, so that for a short while, different earth wires were at different potential. Then if you have one hand on one earth conductor and the other on a different earth conductor, you might get a belt, or worse. In can be enlightening to measure the voltage between earth conductors after you have just separated them!
good tips. thanks.
Was going to say the same thing about the hole - learned that one from a DNO fitter. Not only does it help prevent water ingress, but it also makes the cables sit nicer on rising feeds.
It must be safe, whatever customer wants as long as its safe and pays for it.
You did right thing given the situation. You made everything safe as you can and put in a board big enough to accommodate a rewire in the future and saving him a bit of money down the road. Hopefully the customer decides to do a rewire sooner rather then later. And you will likely get the job since you've done right this time around.
The other 2 ' consumer units' are not consumer units, they are called 'Switch fuses' .
Realistically the 6mm bonding on a tns supply is fine . It’s only a code C3 on tncs if it has no signs of thermal damage . But personally I’d probably upgrade my self if it’s possible.
having your channel not only helps teach others but also helps to grow your business as people can recommend you and your subscribers can be your customers just like this one .
As you you do more of the EV installs, this will become common place. Recommending the customer updates Consumer unit and or wiring at a later date as you'd be inclined to do more work that some customers will expect as part of the EV install?
Difficult one with the right solution in the end. As demand increases this going to become a very common problem so discrete installation is best approach unless it’s seen as an opp for additional work
Did you get an answer on the double pole protective device needed for the zappi?
Tough one that - I think that you probably took the right approach in doing the bonding and new CU, but my personal view is that given the age and condition of the rest of the installation I would not be willing to undertake further work without a significant rewire & that would be made clear on all paperwork that I issued. Swapping switches and fittings for Class II is a bodge that I would only ever be acceptable (in my opinion) as an interim/emergency measure pending the rewire. The customer may not want the disruption or cost of the rewire, but it beats the hell out of someone getting seriously injured or a fire happening.
Question. What voltage tester do you use and correct size masonry bit to drill into brickwork for 2.5 ruzzie. Thanks
Good job! From a sparky in NZ. I totally understand your feelings at the end of the day...
I would go ahead and fit a separate board for the EV charger under those circumstances. Recommend to the customer an EICR for the main installation, and also mention this in your test sheets to keep yourself right.
Good video .
I always do EICR 's before a board change for this exact reason and there are always issues that need to be resolved before the CU can be upgraded. I honestly don't understand how any decent spark can do a board change before an EICR.
You totally made the right decision, you couldn't do a board change when you know there are dangerous issues. If the customer got a fatal electric shock off a metal light switch even years down the line, it would be you in front of a judge
Whenever I drill for wall anchors / plugs ( whatever is called locally) I usually have a can of compressed air to clean the hole from whatever remained in the drilling. Makes for a better joint.
I use a vacuum!
Even though it is not necessary (even according to Am2 regs) I love the idea of using black conduit to disguise the Bonding conductors, much better looking than unprotected green and yellow cable. :-)
Tip for the tp4b, your electricians hammer will fit through the leather bit at the top, across the bag, giving you an extra pocket on the main part. I do this on my tp5b and it keeps it well out the way til i need it and doesn't get in the way of the handle
Another job well done by a skilled electrician.....
Thanks!
Excellent job, I agree with everything you’ve done. I would have upgraded the bonds as well as new install. The client has EICR, so he knows the risks involved. In old installs where there are quite a few problems, such as that one, it is written within the quotation that if the client goes down the repair route, there is always an element of risk of what you may uncover & the client would still have to pay regardless of the outcome. An example, property has all accessories replaced, sorting out loose connections, & open ring conductors, new consumer unit fitted, only to discover once the consumer was fitted that the return path (neutral) for some of the downstairs lights was through a ring final circuit.
Great to see you made it safe as you can. Old electric installations are a pain to upgrade though mostly dangerous when drawing modern power consumption. You should have given him a volt stick to check any metal fixings before touching them. 😉
cheechU38K not a good idea considering they are not 100% accurate asking for a lawsuit there
Think I would have chucked the shower in the new board too for what it is and gotten rid of that mini fuse board. Other than that, not worth doing much more.
Do you have a video of where you connect the mcbs with the wires. I always have trouble routing the cables to bend and fit neatly like you do.
Back in the day when that dates from, lighting just wasn't earthed, and was wired in twin cable. It's surprising how few people got zapped.
I personally think with RCDs nowadays, who needs earth? Virtually every light fitting is double insulated anyway!
great work cable run through the bath . Cory and Reuben
Did i get it correctly that the black pvc pipe on the outside was to connect the eart cable? So this house did not have an earth rail near the consumer unit?
Shouldve brought that twin back entry into the new db
Did you connect into the henley blocks live? Or pulled the fuse. I always get the customer to have an isolating switch fitted before I do any work
This might be a daft question, but if you're not upgrading the CU. Why does the bonding need to be changed? Isn't it a case of it applied to the old regs at the time?
As long as bonding is 6mm or > (when required by 544.1.1 to be 10mm) and no signs of over heating it’s perfectly fine to be left in place.
What testing do you have to do on the Zappi and what tester do you use?
You could of changed the CU without taking responsibility for the entire installation if stipulated in a written contract. After all you can't make the installation less safe by having everything put onto rcbo/rcd's and mini circuit breakers (though they may trip due to untested issues - leakage etc). Oh just as an FYI you should do a continuity test on the gas bond, one it's not before the first Tee but more importantly if they made the steel pipe joints with a setting compound (which isn't a done thing these days) you may not actually have bonded anything but the new copper supply as you wont always find you have continuity across the joints.
Do love how tidy your installs are, would of bonded the metal down pipe though!
Mark Langley Metal downpipe needed a 22k ohms test to confirm if extraneous. Lots of times pipework of that nature although seemingly “earthy” turns out not requiring to be bonded and doing so then introduces a hazard which previously didn’t exist.
It's a rain water pipe which does not go underground
I mean that is true but it opens the can of worms where he could of installed and the RCD or breakers will trip and he will be there fault finding forever and will
Just end up rewiring anyway
Tw w I know right. The bonding topic come to the surface again. 👍
@@jamiethompson4549 think he took on the job just to make a UA-cam film,let's face it he new what it was like before he got there and having to travel 1 hour each way,I would of not given it the time of day 👍
Can i ask how much this job would cost as i think id need a another box just for the ev chager
Why is there is no previous inspection label?. You said it was inspected the day before (8:25)
Noticed you put the Zappi on a Type B 32amp rather than a Type A. Is the inbuilt protection in the Zappi V2 not sufficient to prevent DC residual currents exceeding 6 mA? Or are you going belt and braces by fitting the Type B.
Hi, I have a question. I have the 10-30 dryer outlet ( w/50A Breaker )on my garage wall, and I am only using the gas dryer. I bought the new Gen 2 NEMA 10-30 Adapters from Tesla. Every time when I charge my 2021 Model 3, the first few minutes it can get 25mi/ hr , 24/24A 236v , but after 5-10 mins, it drops to 12mi/hr 12/12A 236V automatically . And couldn't manually adjust back to 25mi/ hr , 24/24A 236v again. Do you know what is going on ? Why it drops from 24v to 12A automatically ? I hope you can help me.
As soon as I discovered there was no working earth in the house I took over from my late parents I started a full rewire straight away.
I will need new ceilings and a lot of decorating after this, but so be it.
The earth from the consumer unit was bonded to the water pipe, but as the water mains to the house was replaced with plastic pipe there was no actual earth, beside that both CPRs didn't work at all.
So first job was driving an earth pin, now I'm into rewiring the house and doing some changes and upgrades.
New consumer unit in and get it signed off and I can live in a safe house.
What does a shiny new EV mean if your house burns down?
Thanks for sharing
Are the Hager boxes the best? Ive got a 17th edition which is plastic and the surronds all broke. I was just wondering which are the best boxes to use?
Did you do this through the grant? Only reason I ask is in Part C, section 2 of the EVHS form it states that you have confirmed the existing install is compliant with current BS7671 and you can evident this if required.
Would have liked to see how you connected the gas bond with the loop to the water. Which earth clamp did you use as looping a 10mm is always a challenge
I wouldn’t have bothered with the Tesla and bottom my house sorted first!
Totally agree, The majority of clients just don’t get it, because it works. How many times do you come across a beautifully decorated & well presented property & the electrical installation is shocking.
What size cable for the ev charger?
With the zappi having typeA rcd protection built in. If you had a dual rcd board would it be bad practice to connect the supply to type ac rcd if the supply cable requires rcd protection or if there was no room etc for a small ccu?
You cannot have a Type AC upstream of a type A. There's a diagram floating about somewhere showing how different rcd types should be connected.
Which tester do you use to test the Zappy? When I enquired with My energi they recommended the Metrel or the Megger testers . Also do you use a EVSE test box ? You need all of these to be approved by My energy.
This is the hardest part in the life of an electrician.
It's like finding a stick of dynamite under the floor and saying 'well its been there for 40 years, let's just leave it'.
Hi Jordan, great video. How did you isolate the supply to fit the new junction box for the tails? Should there be an isolation switch? Cheers, take care.
I would have fitted the charger, but only whit der Limitation to do a complet rewire in the next 4 or 6 months....Im sorry if I write something wrong or so I'm from Germany so I'm not a native english speaker.... By the way nice video and I find it interessting to see other countries electrical instalations and all the diefrent things like ring circuts or the ECIR inspections. I'm doing at the moment a rewire of my Grandmothers house the instalation is from the late 50 so its a big mess. And no panik I have a license and I'm working whit a local compay together. I can send you a few pictures if you want to make a Video about it if you want...
No need to apologise mate. Your English is more or less spot on. A lot better than my German. Done two years of it in School. Only language I ever enjoyed learning. Shame 18 years on, I can't remember a word.
@@stevenwalker3164 Thanks :)
Interesting vid. Appreciate your challenges on this one. My view is tell the customer the truth, make him take the decision and the responsibility.
I like your level-headed approach. you dealt with the EV point firstly, to meet the original requirements, AND you made it easier for future upgrades. Then tackled the historic wiring seperately (according to the comments), improved it, and made it safer.
Everything you did improved what was already there.
why there isn't any RCD for new board?
Hi Jordan , how do you register with Zappi to become an approved installer ? Thanks Tim
I thought gas equipotential bonding should be before the first tee in the installation?
You can only make recommendations. I would recommend a rewire, put the faults in writing. Explain you can't change the boards at the moment. Then just fit a new DB for the charging point, do the MEB's and Bob's your uncle.
The honest thing to do is put the small secondary consumer unit in for the ev charger and inform the customer he needs a full rewire.
This sorts out the new car arriving and gives the customer the option to get the rewire from whoever he wants. That way you are not holding him to ransome, you are doing the ev charger job and giving good advice and customer service as well as adhering to safety regs on the house. And let's face it, if you show this high level of customer service, putting the customer first, you will probably get the rewire job as well.
Great content as always.
Hi Jordan, just want to ask whether it's ok with regs to loop bonding between gas and water with one 10mm earthing conductor?
Thank you for any answers
Yes you can! The conductor just has to be continuous so that if someone disconnects one it doesn't remove continuity to the other if you see what I mean. So you just loop straight through without cutting the copper, just strip the insulation off.
@@artisanelectrics thnx for getting back to me.. watching a lot of yours videos during Xmas break, really enjoying it !! Cant wait to see end of 2021 summary 😀
You did exactly the right thing. If the client had instead you change the board I think you should have said no, and walked away.
In CZ we have "old" system called TN-C, which uses only two wires too, but it does not mean it is without protection at all, basicly neutral wire is connected to applience as well as to its metal housing.
Illegal to use TN-C in the UK without home office approval.
I was under the impression that if there are any C1 or C2 issues on an installation a fuseboard upgrade is not permitted until they are rectified, so that wouldn't have been an option, unless I'm mistaken?
Good Safe! But old switch panels should be removed. Great Job Thumb up! Cheer!
I think you made the right decision; It would have been a longer job than the scout hut probably.
Yes, Henley blocks and a db2 for the ev charger, then replace bonding conductors. Then later on if customer agrees to a full rewire, get it done then, can of worms if done any other way as customer receives his car tomorrow.
That aside, the installation looks awful and needs replacing yesterday.
I'm not familiar with regs, but from a technical standpoint, could a solution to unearthed lighting cabling be to run it through an isolating transformer?
what
I'm not an electrician (though work professionally on mobile power sources and their associated safety issues) but I'm fairly sure the regs wouldn't allow this. The problem is that an isolated supply to more than one appliance could develop an earth fault on one conductor without being noticed, leaving the other conductor live and dangerous. An earth monitoring device would be required, and some installations (on board ships, I think) use this. I suppose you could install a centre-tapped 110V site transformer and fit bulbs imported from the USA, but that could get inconvenient!
Another great video Jordan. Can you show the air blower more often. Trying to justifying having one 😀
Client can afford a Tesla,but doesn’t really want to pay to change his 40year old fire trap electrics!
Welcome to the Clients land of image over integrity.
first thing that crossed my mind
I see it all the time, 80k car on the drive but thinks 6k for above ave rewire is expensive🤔🙄😖
@@79dannyroy very true👍, some people get their priorities all wrong
Nothing to do with money. More likely they do not want to re-plaster every single wall in their home along with replacing every single floor covering.
Dan B, don't be so aggressive towards people who can afford 160,000,000,000,000.97 pound cars, you may find that your idea about how much those cost is bs.
Nice work
But
Please fit the electric bonding within 600mm and before any T connection from the outlet
It’s a horrible compromise. At least you are doing all the things you need to make the installation safe. However i think you will still find a few surprises when you changeover the fittings.
How bout wrapping tape around any/all exposed terminals in the metal boxes? That will accomplish the same thing as plastic boxes but much faster.
rewire the house and get the lights on kinectic switches , mostly damage will be on sockets and from taking out the floor boxes , for the heating hive stat and its a easy quick job
That Gas Pipe going into to floor looks old is it still in use or is it capped off some were?
fantastic result
Nice vid would be great to see a video of that veto tool pouch and your kit you run with in it on the other channel
Cheers
The plastic sheeting is what the smart meter men normally fit when they view the existing installation as dangerous, normally they put stickers on it.
The block should have been rectified. The shroud is only normally intended for use on a dangerous cut out. All meter fitters carry blocks and isolators for such situations.
I know Zappi’s have inbuilt RCD protection, but given you’ve wired the new circuit in T&E, and not SWA, albeit a very short run, shouldn’t it have an RCBO upfront?
If it’s clipped direct which it basically is then it doesn’t need RCD Protection
I wouldn't even consider changing the board. Would just advise house needs re wiring. Would have done same as you re the charging point put it on its own separate board.
Wow. "You've had some cowboys in here" is what I would have said if it was me.
If my house was like that I'd want a full rewire done.
The last rewire I did was because the customer said I can’t see what I’m paying for🤭, I did respond with , well I could of clipped all the cables on your wallpaper 😮, I find people consider it as a grudge buy which is understandable. Having said that there are some who do appreciate the importance of it all .
You just scared me! Drilling the hole for the zappy was downwards from out to in. What a bad way to let water into the building, always uphill from outside to prevent water ingress. Even with the best sealant, that's the best prevention.
Carl Kokay it is okay that providing that it is sealed well you are fine I mean ideally upwards or straight but you have to work with what you have
That plastic crap over the henly block was installed by whoever installed the smart meter i suspect, presumibly because they thought it was possible to touch live parts. Also, what the hell is that SKU1 cellular box? I would assume smart meter related but it looks like it is not connected in any way to the smart meter. Strange.
Yes the meter fitter would have installed the plastic shroud and given the customer a warning that something was unsafe. Though actually fitters are supposed to replace dangerous blocks and tidy cables themselves. So something isn't right there. The comms hub is for the gas meter, and is normally fitted underneath an existing "dumb" meter or incompatible smart electric meter, but it can be installed separately if really necessary. I suspect what we have here just a very lazy meter fitter who left a sub-standard installation to get the job done quicker.
@@0liver0verson9Excellent explanation! thanks a bunch :)
The hub is for the gas meter guess they have diffrent suppliers so they need the hub to talk to the gas supplier
2 days ago I had precisely the same situation..
But our rules different.? Your not compelled to upgrade "other" circuitry unless it's truly unsafe, just consider surely RCD and MCB upgrade is an enormous safety improvement on before. And can negate the need for earthing in some areas.
Stage 2: repair "other" circuits
Good job sir!
Awesome videos watching from Australia ⚡️⚡️
Thanks!
@@artisanelectrics anytime ive just recently got my a grade here in Australia and im leaning stuff from your videos so thankyou!!
The clear plastic would have been fitted by British Gas - They use that if there is exposed copper or a potential dangerous situation, It basically allows them to walk away knowing a customer cannot touch a live part. - You can see the British Gas Smart Metering sticker to the left of the meter.
Nice bro,,,,,!
Good channel Jordan
Just wondering are you now just going to do EV units or keep a varied workscope?
I'm a sparky in Australia where all Electricians are Licensed but our wiring rules are inferior to yours.
Look forward to the day when we ditch fuseboxes made of singles and made of asbestos.
Hopefully we get arc fault rcbos soon
Regards David in Peel Australia
As a company we will still be offering the full range of services but I will focus on the EV installs myself and hey the other guys to do the other jobs
"Inferior"? UK methods and rules to me seem "clunky" and overkill. Twice the time, same task, similar safety ?
Avoid the rewire and get the EV in and bonding RESULT
Use quinetic for the lights that cuts down the chassing
I live in the apartment block on a 3rd floor and our electricity meter is on the ground floor along with everyone else's. You mention gas meter and water pipes, why is this relevant? I am praying for some company to agree to install Charging point for me...doesnt look promising though.
Yeah its tough when you're in an apartment block... Gas and Water needs to be bonded as part of the safety regulations and we have to check this when doing the certificate.
You said it yourself - if you touch the existing - especially if you fit a new CU - you are taking responsibility for the installation.
At the very least - if you fitted a new CU ( which will of course include RCD's) - then you are almost certain to fall foul of nuisance tripping. ( at least you would fit RCBO's on every cct to ease fault finding in that case ?? ) and at worse - something bad really happens ... and the customer will utter the famous phrase " it was alright till you touched it" .
As someone else has said - this customer has got his priorities TOTALLY wrong !! Buys an EV ( which isn't cheap) yet is happy to "drive" a 40 years old "electric house vehicle " which hasn't been serviced in years
Did I miss the type A rcbo for that charger
Not needed as the Zappi has built in Type A RCD protection equivalent
Nice job as always
Good job sir
I’m 16 from the UK finishing school soon and I want to start an apprenticeship as an electrician? Any tips?
Good luck!
Yeah, stay at school
Type up electricians near you and email as many as you can, had to do it a couple weeks ago when lost my job. Works a treat mate
I’m a 2nd year apprentice, If I was in your boots I’d apply do to it at college and apply to as many as you can, even while you do college, because the college work is basically the same for both apprentices and fulltimers at college. If you dont get one before college starts, then just keep applying while doing college.
Stay in school as long as you can for the love of God stay in school.
Jordan I would prefer to do a rewire and do the consumer unit updated at the same time
to fix upstairs lights how about new feed in conduit and Quinetic
Wireless Switches
Jordan, always go with telling the truth!
Hi sir Definitely not an easy decision to make . My personal position is if the installation is non compliant , I would not proceed in doing work . Yes changing fixtures and fittings to plastic will minimise potential shock danger. But will give no. Guarantee against fire. You fitting a new D.B was definitely the way to go . Removing any responsibility to the existing wiring . But I can fully appreciate the position you were in . It might be worth along with test certificates , sending written letter voicing your. Concerns and recommendations. So no one say a family member decides to imply you should have done more. And of course keep a copy for your records. Sounds O T T but as a company it proved useful at times . Even if just doing the separate dis board. Basically it gives you an added protection against any litigation . Test certificates are all well and good . But there’s nothing like a letter for focusing the mind . Best wishes and kind regards mike in the U.K.
For comment only ( obviously to maybe help you next time unless you weren’t aware) the earth bonding on the gas pipe should be before any tee on the gas pipe. Great work though.