Great review. Just like you mentioned, the accuracy is fine for what I do too. I really changed to a keyless chuck due to problems with arthritis. Makes it a whole lot easier and painless than with a key. Thanks mate well done. 👍
I'm a CNC guy. Our chucks are below 0.001". They are Albrecht brand. They cost $1600 each... Maybe you get what you pay for in some cases and 0.025mm of runout is about 1 thou so pretty decent for your use.
Excellent performance. I've wondered about Porta chucks. It would be interesting to know how it indicates throughout its range. For example, my 5/8 keyless Rohm ranges from .0002"-.0006" depending on the size of the drill. I use Mahr/Starrett/Mitutoyo tenth indicators on Noga stands. The Mahr has a total range of .010". It can be a heartbreaker - indicate a chuck with something less precise and then use that thing. Ruins one's day pretty quickly. I'm sure that your TDI is quite accurate.
Hi Felix, I was pretty happy with the result however the drill press overall is not an ‘old-school’ solid and accurate press, but it gets the job done. The quill has a little play in it. I find myself often swapping between the keyless Chuck for drilling and the old keyed Chuck when using the drill press for power tapping…. Can’t seem to get the keyless Chuck to grip the tap tight enough. Maybe I was just lucky with that specific Porta Chuck having little runout… who knows, only time will tell. Maybe after some extended use, I’ll indicate it again. Probably overkill though since it’s not a mill 😂😂.
Grant, Many thanks for this video. I've just acquired an old Bench Drill which had a seized up Jacobs 3-16mm keyless chuck. It looks like its been gone 15 rounds with a hammer and grips - possibly trying to free it! I smothered it in WD40 for a day and it popped out quite easily but needed a vice+grips combo to open it up. Anyways I now am looking to replace it with either another keyless or keyed chuck. So the video has been very useful - just got to decide on keyless or keyed and brand, without spending too much money.
Hi Ray, thanks for the comment. I love my keyless chuck however still find myself changing between the keyless and keyed chuck. Keyed chuck for power tapping and keyless for drilling. Also use the keyed chuck for drilling if it's already in the press. Fairly happy with the Porta chuck... I've found that it does sometimes slip but after a second good fasten, its ok. The chuck is something you'll have for many years, easy 10+ years so break the cost up over that time and a quality chuck doesn't end up costing that much. That said, the keyed chuck I have was not an expensive chuck and its treated me well. Jacobs are also good chucks... pity that one is damaged.
Many thanks for your reply Grant. I’m going to check the accuracy of the Jacobs, although it’s well battered, it operates smoothly. If it works accurately I’d probably go for a keyed chuck, mainly for the tightness.
It looks like your original measurement with the original chuck was 0.01mm runout and after replacing with the new porta chuck you increased your runout 2x. This Doesn't sell me on a Porta chuck, what am I missing?
Hi Tom, it was a while ago but as I recall, the first measurement I took with the old chuck must have just been luck to get such little runout (so yes, by those measurements, the new Porta has more runout) but after playing around with the old chuck a while, cleaning it up a little and dressing the jaws - it's had plenty bits slip and chew up the inside over the years - it seemed to measure consistently less accurate than the Porta. Either way, I've been pretty happy with the Porta. Sometimes a bit will slip slightly (especially taps) but its so much more convenient to use than the old key chuck (plus the key is worn). Have actually been using the old key chuck when power tapping holes (because the Porta slips with taps) so have been swapping it out fairly often. There are probably better chucks out there, but for a drill press, this is more than reasonable.
This video is a great way to show the issues we might come across while doing a simple job like this. Most UA-cam videos show how easy everything is but life isn't always that easy. Thanks for the detailed description of everything and keep up the good work. Also I can't tell where you are from. Are you from Australia or South Africa? Sorry my ears aren't great with accents.
Hi Kevin, thanks for the comment. I'm from South Africa. Agreed... many times things aren't as easy as they initially seem but then again there are those times when you expect many hurdles and thing end up going super smooth and much quicker than anticipated. Keep well.
I purchased a 10mm (3/8") diameter x 150 mm (6") long precision ground rod +/- 0.0127 mm (0.0005") 316 stainless steel from McMaster-Carr in the US for about $15.00 US. It makes it easier to measure run out.
Hi, I don't think loctite (or any type of thread locker) is a good idea or even necessary. A clean male and female taper, if machined properly, will hold very strong. I've never had an arbor slip or fall out. I say 'never' but it has fallen out when being used in a way that it is not intended to be used - i.e. trying to use it like a mill and applying sideways force. Also, by adding anything onto the taper surfaces, you run the risk of the tapers not aligning perfectly which will result in runout or actually maybe even a weaker grip.
Tapers like the Morse Taper and the B16 are self locking due to the steep angle plus all the force on them is straight downward. These mating surfaces should always be degreased with something like isopropyl alcohol. This will clean all oils even oils from your hand plus it will evaporate quickly. When Morse tapers are used on a milling machine were there is sideway forces there is no tang but a treaded hole. This is for what is called a draw bar, basically a long bolt to keep the taper seated. A machinist would never use any cutting tool for sideways cutting in a drill chuck unless he is using like a drill, straight down.
This may seem like a dumb question... I'm in the process of researching a new chuck for my drill press, and I'm learning all kinds of things I never knew! I'm just a home hobbyist, and I never even considered runout.It's really quite fascinating. At this point, I'm not sure if I'm going keyless, or staying with the traditional keyed style. Before you checked the runout on the keyed chuck, you tightened the jaws at all 3 key holes. Is that the true/proper way to tighten that type of chuck?
Hi Kenneth, great question... maybe some experts can weigh in. For me, I suppose it's just habit carried from the tightening technique when using the lathe. I mostly only use one hole to tighten the a keyed chuck on a drill press however find myself using all three holes when wanting a little extra tightness or better purchase on the drill it (or better centring). I don't think its super critical on a drill press keyed check but I believe it does make a difference on the scroll tightening design of a lathe chuck.
@@GrantBurton Thank you so much for the reply. That makes a lot of sense. A spinning lathe chuck or improperly secured piece of material would be a real problem! I don’t have a lathe, or a mill, but man oh man would I love too! It’s a really fascinating mash up of art, physics, mathematics, etc.!
humm... 🤔 having your needle not perpendicular to the cylindrical piece you are measuring slightly decreases the count (I believe) I'd like to hear an expert machinist's opinion though.
Hi Victor... with a test indicator, it's most accurate when the axis of the contact point ('stem') is perpendicular to the direction or measurement. In general case, keeping the probe angle within +-10 to 15 degrees of perpendicular will give an acceptably accurate result (of course depending on the accuracy one is required to work to and the type of measurement you are trying to take - If absolute linear measurements are needed, the cosine correction must be applied - this is because the 'stem' / probe moves in an arc). Measuring with the stem at, for example, 45 degrees to the direction of measurement will be inaccurate - measurement will be larger than it actually is (the greater the angle, the greater the error). Technically I suppose I should have taken a little more care to setup the indicator more accurately but it's not such a problem for making comparative measurements (i.e. run-out)
Haha... yeah, just goes to show one shouldn't make assumptions that a new chuck is going to be more accurate than an old used chuck before any measurements are taken (although as mentioned at the end of the video, after reinstalling the old chuck and measuring the runout a few times over, it was more than the new chuck). Either way, I'm just sharing my findings and if others want to call them excuses... then so be it... doesn't make any difference to me. Are you referring to your Porta chuck / arbor that also did the same thing... more runout than anticipated?
@@GrantBurton .. I guess I take most “reviews” with a grain of salt. The kicks would be super super tempting just to say something positive about a product. Would of been good to have see the footage of the re measure on old 1. It’s amAZING how the old chuck bedded itself in to near perfect accuracy over time. It’s almost a machinist phenomenon haha.
Unfortunately no additional footage was taken, other than what was in the video. Maybe I'll take some measurements again when I have a bit of spare time.
Great review. Just like you mentioned, the accuracy is fine for what I do too. I really changed to a keyless chuck due to problems with arthritis. Makes it a whole lot easier and painless than with a key. Thanks mate well done. 👍
Thanks very much. Yeah... keyless is definitely easier and quicker, and no key to get lost.
I'm a CNC guy. Our chucks are below 0.001". They are Albrecht brand. They cost $1600 each... Maybe you get what you pay for in some cases and 0.025mm of runout is about 1 thou so pretty decent for your use.
Hi Yogi Bear, I think you definitely get what you pay for when it comes to tools... and accurate enough for a drill press 👍
Thank you. This is a great demonstration. I learned quite a bit from this
Hi Robert, thanks very much 😁
Bought similar chuck.. yeah its good to check where you install it as i got own runout half when cleaned it as well.
Nice to hear from you and let us know how the new chuck is working out 😁
Excellent performance. I've wondered about Porta chucks. It would be interesting to know how it indicates throughout its range. For example, my 5/8 keyless Rohm ranges from .0002"-.0006" depending on the size of the drill. I use Mahr/Starrett/Mitutoyo tenth indicators on Noga stands. The Mahr has a total range of .010". It can be a heartbreaker - indicate a chuck with something less precise and then use that thing. Ruins one's day pretty quickly. I'm sure that your TDI is quite accurate.
Hi Felix, I was pretty happy with the result however the drill press overall is not an ‘old-school’ solid and accurate press, but it gets the job done. The quill has a little play in it.
I find myself often swapping between the keyless Chuck for drilling and the old keyed Chuck when using the drill press for power tapping…. Can’t seem to get the keyless Chuck to grip the tap tight enough.
Maybe I was just lucky with that specific Porta Chuck having little runout… who knows, only time will tell. Maybe after some extended use, I’ll indicate it again. Probably overkill though since it’s not a mill 😂😂.
Grant, Many thanks for this video. I've just acquired an old Bench Drill which had a seized up Jacobs 3-16mm keyless chuck. It looks like its been gone 15 rounds with a hammer and grips - possibly trying to free it! I smothered it in WD40 for a day and it popped out quite easily but needed a vice+grips combo to open it up. Anyways I now am looking to replace it with either another keyless or keyed chuck. So the video has been very useful - just got to decide on keyless or keyed and brand, without spending too much money.
Hi Ray, thanks for the comment. I love my keyless chuck however still find myself changing between the keyless and keyed chuck. Keyed chuck for power tapping and keyless for drilling. Also use the keyed chuck for drilling if it's already in the press. Fairly happy with the Porta chuck... I've found that it does sometimes slip but after a second good fasten, its ok. The chuck is something you'll have for many years, easy 10+ years so break the cost up over that time and a quality chuck doesn't end up costing that much.
That said, the keyed chuck I have was not an expensive chuck and its treated me well. Jacobs are also good chucks... pity that one is damaged.
Many thanks for your reply Grant. I’m going to check the accuracy of the Jacobs, although it’s well battered, it operates smoothly. If it works accurately I’d probably go for a keyed chuck, mainly for the tightness.
Let us know how it turns out.
It looks like your original measurement with the original chuck was 0.01mm runout and after replacing with the new porta chuck you increased your runout 2x. This Doesn't sell me on a Porta chuck, what am I missing?
Hi Tom, it was a while ago but as I recall, the first measurement I took with the old chuck must have just been luck to get such little runout (so yes, by those measurements, the new Porta has more runout) but after playing around with the old chuck a while, cleaning it up a little and dressing the jaws - it's had plenty bits slip and chew up the inside over the years - it seemed to measure consistently less accurate than the Porta.
Either way, I've been pretty happy with the Porta. Sometimes a bit will slip slightly (especially taps) but its so much more convenient to use than the old key chuck (plus the key is worn). Have actually been using the old key chuck when power tapping holes (because the Porta slips with taps) so have been swapping it out fairly often.
There are probably better chucks out there, but for a drill press, this is more than reasonable.
what about those Rohm chucks from Deutschland? they supposedly great, just curious as i really didnt know much about them or the Porta brand either
I believe those Rohm chucks are very good 👍
This video is a great way to show the issues we might come across while doing a simple job like this. Most UA-cam videos show how easy everything is but life isn't always that easy. Thanks for the detailed description of everything and keep up the good work. Also I can't tell where you are from. Are you from Australia or South Africa? Sorry my ears aren't great with accents.
Hi Kevin, thanks for the comment. I'm from South Africa. Agreed... many times things aren't as easy as they initially seem but then again there are those times when you expect many hurdles and thing end up going super smooth and much quicker than anticipated. Keep well.
I purchased a 10mm (3/8") diameter x 150 mm (6") long precision ground rod +/- 0.0127 mm (0.0005") 316 stainless steel from McMaster-Carr in the US for about $15.00 US. It makes it easier to measure run out.
Hi Robert, a precision ground rod definitely makes measuring a little more accurate. Let us know how it turns out.
Still amazed that the B16 taper will hold the chuck without coming loose. Would this be the sort of place, where one could add a dab of green loctite?
Hi, I don't think loctite (or any type of thread locker) is a good idea or even necessary. A clean male and female taper, if machined properly, will hold very strong. I've never had an arbor slip or fall out. I say 'never' but it has fallen out when being used in a way that it is not intended to be used - i.e. trying to use it like a mill and applying sideways force. Also, by adding anything onto the taper surfaces, you run the risk of the tapers not aligning perfectly which will result in runout or actually maybe even a weaker grip.
Tapers like the Morse Taper and the B16 are self locking due to the steep angle plus all the force on them is straight downward. These mating surfaces should always be degreased with something like isopropyl alcohol. This will clean all oils even oils from your hand plus it will evaporate quickly.
When Morse tapers are used on a milling machine were there is sideway forces there is no tang but a treaded hole. This is for what is called a draw bar, basically a long bolt to keep the taper seated. A machinist would never use any cutting tool for sideways cutting in a drill chuck unless he is using like a drill, straight down.
Very detailed review，great！
Thanks very much.
This may seem like a dumb question...
I'm in the process of researching a new chuck for my drill press, and I'm learning all kinds of things I never knew! I'm just a home hobbyist, and I never even considered runout.It's really quite fascinating. At this point, I'm not sure if I'm going keyless, or staying with the traditional keyed style.
Before you checked the runout on the keyed chuck, you tightened the jaws at all 3 key holes. Is that the true/proper way to tighten that type of chuck?
Hi Kenneth, great question... maybe some experts can weigh in. For me, I suppose it's just habit carried from the tightening technique when using the lathe. I mostly only use one hole to tighten the a keyed chuck on a drill press however find myself using all three holes when wanting a little extra tightness or better purchase on the drill it (or better centring). I don't think its super critical on a drill press keyed check but I believe it does make a difference on the scroll tightening design of a lathe chuck.
@@GrantBurton Thank you so much for the reply. That makes a lot of sense. A spinning lathe chuck or improperly secured piece of material would be a real problem! I don’t have a lathe, or a mill, but man oh man would I love too! It’s a really fascinating mash up of art, physics, mathematics, etc.!
Very interesting..
now that I thinking about it, where is my merch ?
Hi Amish, I'm sure we can make a plan... what did you have in mind?
@@GrantBurton a drill t shirt
Drop me a mail... let's organise.
@@GrantBurton going to the post office now
humm... 🤔
having your needle not perpendicular to the cylindrical piece you are measuring slightly decreases the count (I believe)
I'd like to hear an expert machinist's opinion though.
Hi Victor... with a test indicator, it's most accurate when the axis of the contact point ('stem') is perpendicular to the direction or measurement. In general case, keeping the probe angle within +-10 to 15 degrees of perpendicular will give an acceptably accurate result (of course depending on the accuracy one is required to work to and the type of measurement you are trying to take - If absolute linear measurements are needed, the cosine correction must be applied - this is because the 'stem' / probe moves in an arc). Measuring with the stem at, for example, 45 degrees to the direction of measurement will be inaccurate - measurement will be larger than it actually is (the greater the angle, the greater the error).
Technically I suppose I should have taken a little more care to setup the indicator more accurately but it's not such a problem for making comparative measurements (i.e. run-out)
You should have measured the runout on the arbor with the chuck removed…
Hi John, yeah, I probably should have... maybe next time around.
👍👍👍
👍👍👍
get a Albrecht
Thanks, I'll look into that next time I'm in the market for a chuck.
I don't understand the screw driver lighting.
Hi David, it's just a bit of lighting for fun.
If it aint broke, dont fix it 😉👍
Haha... absolutely, but you know the inquisitive mind can't resist scratching... haha.
Sounds like ALOT of excuses for this “guaranteed accuracy” once stated ..
Mine did the same thing, even worse tbh!
Haha... yeah, just goes to show one shouldn't make assumptions that a new chuck is going to be more accurate than an old used chuck before any measurements are taken (although as mentioned at the end of the video, after reinstalling the old chuck and measuring the runout a few times over, it was more than the new chuck). Either way, I'm just sharing my findings and if others want to call them excuses... then so be it... doesn't make any difference to me.
Are you referring to your Porta chuck / arbor that also did the same thing... more runout than anticipated?
@@GrantBurton .. I guess I take most “reviews” with a grain of salt. The kicks would be super super tempting just to say something positive about a product. Would of been good to have see the footage of the re measure on old 1.
It’s amAZING how the old chuck bedded itself in to near perfect accuracy over time. It’s almost a machinist phenomenon haha.
Unfortunately no additional footage was taken, other than what was in the video. Maybe I'll take some measurements again when I have a bit of spare time.