Is Nirvana Indescribable? Is it Permanent?
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- Опубліковано 28 лип 2024
- Nirvana or the awakened state is often said to be indescribable, and typically understood as permanent. We'll consider both of these claims, and look at a neat thought experiment by philosopher Frank Jackson along the way.
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Suttas mentioned:
The Unconditioned (SN 43.12, 14-43): suttacentral.net/sn43.12/en/b... (The rest of this sutta appears not to be available online).
The Second Discourse About Dabba (Ud. 8.10): suttacentral.net/ud8.10/en/an... (Slightly different translation).
The Exposition of the Elements (MN 140): suttacentral.net/mn140/en/bodhi
Greater Discourse on the Simile of the Heartwood (MN 29): suttacentral.net/mn29/en/bodhi
Previous essay of mine: secularbuddhism.org/2013/05/17...
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Please visit the Secular Buddhist Association webpage!
secularbuddhism.org/
Nibbˉana - Nirvana, Enlightenment, the end of
suffering, the eradication of the defilements. True wisdom in Buddhism is not intellectual knowledge, but comes from seeing the truth of how things really are through direct experience. Here it implies seeing at least one of the Three Characteristics of body and mind: things are impermanent (always changing), unsatisfactory (they don’t persist), and they are non-self (not under control).
And this is why Nirvana is not a permanent "state" but the understanding one obtains within that state can indeed be incorporated as a permanent part of one's life. The goal is not to live in a state of Nirvana permanently but to train oneself to be able to revisit that state at will as needed. Suffering is the fundamental state of being a human being, and suffering demands the minds attention nearly every waking moment. Through meditation, one consciously assumes control of that attention and directs it away from all the perceptions that causes daily suffering... Fear of the future, fear of death and the burden of survival, physical needs, regret, expectations, relationships, failure, responsibilities, wants and desires etc etc.... all the inescapable consequences of being a human being that is interacting with the reality in which they exist. Nirvana is the state are which the attention is directed inwardly at the formless consciousness devoid of all the emergent complexities that survival demands be made manifest. As the attention is directly inward more keenly and with absolute surrendering of all the identifying constructs and perceptions, and as those perceptions fade away, he truth is revealed in the unbridled consciousness. Individual identity is recognized as the illusion that it is, as well as death and birth, suffering, fear and anxiety, want and desire, even time and space is recognized for the illusion that it is. The cause and effect or deterministic relationship of everything is not seen as a nihilistic their of meaning and purpose, but rather there is perfect understanding that everything has it's specific time and place and is absolutely necessary a part of the whole.
But Nirvana is not a permanent state in which the mind can reside and still survive. Any conscious act in the world requires attention by definition... And true Nirvana requires directing that attention away from the world.
Masters in mediation can achieve astonishing levels of mindfulness and transfer and retain greater levels of mindfulness in the reality that we all share... And those who can do this become beacons of inspiration and peace to those around them.
I've always thought of Nirvana as a wonderful state to visit... But you would never want to live there. There is no one to learn from and no one to teach in Nirvana.
@@joshuacornelius25 I don't think nirvana is sustainable for a lot of people because although blissful it can be really boring unless you do what you said. Go in and out at the right times
Interesting and informative video! I like the honest and skeptical search :) I've struggled with the same questions for many many years, but think I've found a resolution to it. A really important obstacle for me was the ontological understanding of the world I had that was so deeply ingrained in me; taking physicalism for granted (and as the only rational way of looking at the world), and thereby dismissing consciousness/awareness as just a conditioned by-product. When I opened myself up for seriously considering the possibility that consciousness is fundamental, I found that many of the paradoxes and seemingly impossible problems with Buddhism fell away as a result.
Thanks for your input Jaran.
wow, so very well explained. Ive had these 2 particular issues/questions before and I had come the same conclusion. It took me years. I really enjoyed this talk.
Glad it was helpful Bart!
I think Nirvana is the state of ultimate understanding of yourself and compassion toward others.
When you are in nirvana, it is not that you dont feel desire. It is that you are understanding and noticing all your mental states and letting then go.
The way I see it, "awakening" is more a scale than anything else. And of course, it depends on your daily practice.
If you medidate daily, then probably you will become more "awake" because you will be training your brain to notice all your internal states.
If you dont meditate at all, then you will be more easily entagled in all these feelings and cravings. Less "nirvana".
Thanks for your thoughts, flivon. What you say makes sense, but it's hard to know for sure!
@@DougsDharma To attained Nirvana , you must practice Vipassana meditation. You cant attained Nirvana just reading books.
Nirvana means you would detache with carving & anger.
What you will realise is everything in this world is impermanant. It arises and passes away. Therefore, Arahath person ( person who attained enlightenment ) got the practical knowledge by doing Vipassana meditation.
Still he can feel pain but he is detached from them.
He doesnt feel good or bad of any thing as everything is beyond his control.
Readers cant figure it out just by reading books. This is something we gain from practicing.......
There are 3 more stages before NIRVANA.
1) SOWAHAN ( 7 more lives to go)
2) SAKURUDHAGAMI ( 2 more lives to go)
3) ANAAGAMI ( 1 more lives to go )
4) NIRVANA ( this is the last life)
To learn vipassana meditation check out bellow link. This institute is based in India where buddha was born. they got over 130 of meditation centers in world wide.
dhamma.org
with metta
@@DougsDharma I have psychosis, experiencing detachment from the Shared reality.. How it feel is totally out of this world
@flivon when we attain nirvana there will be no more rebirth of our soul. Our soul will just disappear
And I like your thoughts, you are a good man
@@pasanperera6460 atta kathava
The more one understands what Enlightenment is and is not, the more likely they will be able to attain it.
Through deeply understanding the goal, a practitioner can then actively work to attain the Enlightened mind.
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What are the advantages of attaining NIbbana?
There are signifiant benefits that one will experience through the pursuit and attainment of Nibbana such as:
- Increased and high degree of focus
- Improved and high degree of concentration
- Improved and high degree of memory
- Clarity of thought and mind
An Enlightened being will no longer experience any discontent feelings such as sadness, anger, frustration, irritation, annoyance, guilt, shame, fears, boredom, loneliness, shyness, jealousy, resentment, anxiety, stress, etc.
An Enlightened being will have deep wisdom in which to conduct daily life. They do not argue, fight, or have any hostility.
They are polite, kind, caring, friendly, calm, respectful, etc. They deeply understand what causes harm in the world and, thus, do not cause any harm through their intentions, speech, actions, or livelihood so no harm comes to them.
An Enlightened being can create healthy personal and professional relationships.
Because of these benefits and others, their mind and their life is peaceful, calm, serene, and content with joy for the remaining time of their life, their last life.
Enlightenment is permanent.
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What is Nibbana?
Nibbana is a mind free of greed/craving, hatred/anger, and delusion/ignorance/unknowing of true reality with the realization of non-self and dissolving of the ego. (More on non-self later in this book.)
Nibbana is a purification of the mind. The mind will be peaceful, calm, serene, and content with joy having eliminated 100% of all discontentedness.
When you have attained Nibbana, you will not experience anger, frustration, irritation, annoyance, guilt, shame, fears, boredom, loneliness, shyness, anxiety, sadness, stress, or other discontent feelings.
You will have generosity, loving-kindness and compassion for all beings with deep wisdom in how to attain Nibbana.
The mind will have a high degree of focus, concentration, memory, and clarity of mind.
You no longer pursue cravings or desires but seek only what you “need” in life, not what you “want”.
You will have trust in all beings. You will not blame others for the problems you face.
A mind with Nibbana will have an unshakable calmness, steadiness, and be “content” or “satisfied with what is” experiencing no discontentedness.
When you attain Nibbana you will clear out unwholesome thoughts, not cling to the past or future. You will be able to live clearly in the present moment. You will have a pure mind to conduct your daily life.
A person who has attained Nibbana will have eliminated The Ten Fetters.
Nibbana is achievable by all humans. Children were known to attain Nibbana as young as age 7 during the lifetime of Gotama Buddha.
The more one understands and knows what Nibbana is and is not, the more likely they will be to attain this mental state.
As you pursue Nibbana, you will be able to eliminate your cravings and addictions. You will be open and trusting of all beings and not see another as an enemy. You will not discriminate or judge others. You will not have a desire to always be “right” and argue. If these exist now, you need more growth and more inner development to fully awaken to the Enlightened mind.
The pursuit of Nibbana is a gradual pursuit, a path towards a better life. It is also a life without suffering or discontentedness of mind. It’s a higher state of consciousness that allows you to function in life with ease and smoothness. You clear the clouds of darkness that form judgment, discrimination, ego as well as, greed/craving, hatred/anger, and delusion/ignorance/unknowing of true reality which are “The Three Poisons” of the mind.
Gotama Buddha described that when one has attained Nibbana they “lay down the burden” or “lay down the stress”. This refers to the burden or stress of life and the carrying of unwelcome emotions, attachment, and cravings which produces discontentedness.
Because one aspect of attaining Nibbana is to extinguish any and all craving, you must not also have craving and desire to attain Nibbana. When there is craving, there can be no Nibbana. Therefore, we pursue Nibbana as an interest and goal without craving nor desire. Craving, desire, and attachment are defined as “a mental longing for something with a strong eagerness”.
Nibbana is not happiness as happiness is an impermanent feeling that you cannot maintain permanently. Gotama Buddha’s teachings provide the mind with a path to Nibbana, a permanent mental state that is peaceful, calm, serene, and content with joy.
Many feel the goal of life is to be happy but this is not possible, is an unrealistic goal and will only lead to further discontentedness when the mind cannot maintain the feeling of happiness long term. If the mind is not happy, it will move to sadness, anger, or worse. Happiness is a pleasant feeling and is considered discontent because of the nature of its impermanence since the mind cannot reside in happiness permanently.
Happiness is a feeling that is part of the three aspects of a discontent mind. A discontent mind will experience painful feelings, pleasant feelings, and feelings that is neither painful-nor-pleasant.
Happiness is temporary and will not last forever. When the mind is not happy, it will move to another feeling and, thus, the mind cycles through all these impermanent feelings continuing to be discontent.
Happiness is based on certain conditions that cause the mind to be happy. When those conditions are removed, the happiness will be temporary and the mind will move to another feeling. The feeling of happiness is impermanent because it is based on certain conditions that need to exist to create the feeling of happiness in the mind.
One who has attained Nibbana will have a permanent mental state of joy. Having attained Nibbana, the joy experienced is without conditions and not based on an impermanent situation, object, or experience and, therefore, is permanent.
One can be happy without having the mental state of joy. To be joyful is a mental state, not a temporary feeling. Happiness can exist with ill will or hatred while the joyful mental state of Nibbana would not include ill will or hatred. A person who has attained Nibbana will not have ill will or hatred.
Having attained Nibbana, the mind will be peaceful, calm, serene, and content with joy. This is a permanent mental state where the mind can reside. As you attain Nibbana, the mind will be peaceful, calm, serene, and content with joy.
You will laugh, joke, and have fun but you will not allow the mind to dwell in happiness. You will laugh, joke and have fun but then be able to easily bring the mind back to the middle where the mind is peaceful, calm, serene, and content with joy.
With your current state of mind, you might feel that a steady, calm, and stable mind free of greed, hatred, and delusion while dissolving the ego is impossible or unattainable. However, if you accept that these things are attainable, it is just a matter of learning, implementing, and experiencing this important change in your life. You can pursue Nibbana in this lifetime and the first step is making the decision that it is attainable and that you WILL pursue it.
As you start to learn and implement the teachings, found throughout this book, you will notice positive results. Slowly over time, your life will improve as you understand and implement the teachings. You do not need to have belief, you will see the results when you implement the teachings to observe the truth.
Believing in God is not required and this will not hinder you in the process of pursuing Nibbana. Just learn and implement these teachings because you know that they are helping you to create a better life for yourself and those around you.
Nibbana is not a mystical and mysterious existence or a status of one being higher than another. In fact, it’s just the opposite. It’s learning that greed, hatred, and delusion (“The Three Poisons”) while maintaining ego leads to a life of suffering and discontentedness.
Each person should make Nibbana their number one goal in life.
By attaining Nibbana, all things are possible. Whether you would like to be a good partner, parent, friend, student, employee, boss, sibling, etc., the process of earning your own Nibbana or “Enlightenment” will enable you to fulfill all those roles, and any others you wish with a high degree of clarity of thought.
Nibbana is attainable. You can do it. You will enjoy much more from life in the process of pursuing Nibbana.
I am such a newbie in my idea of happiness and joy as a permanent state. I can confirm through my wild mood swings that these feelings cannot be willed into existence permanently.
@@kevincasinobluestain But you can train the mind to reside there permanently. :)
I think that Nirvana is permanent.
Before I came across Buddhism, I would have a habit of showing off or working hard to impress others. I really couldn't shake off this habit. After coming across Taoism and Buddhism, I worked hard on the path and the urges of showing off and seeking social validation, a habit deep in my bones, was completely uprooted and removed. The reason I think it's permanent is because later on I stopped working on the Dharma altogether because I was really busy and so my monkey mind and the five hinderances returned, but the urge to show off never reappeared. When I resumed my practice and uprooted some other habits and again had to stop because I was to busy, the habits I removed never returned at all.
I think this is what is often called 'personality changes,' where the changes were in accordance to the Dharma. I was more loud but I became very reclusive and preferred silence, even when I relapsed and
didn't practice the Dharma for a long time I changed into a quiet person and barely talked about anything 'mindless' like the weather.
Apart from certain new habits and changes which were burned into me, Richard Davidson's (and other scientists too) scientific studies show that the changes in the brain caused by meditation will stay and do not 'revert' or disappear.
Another thing is Vipassana meditation. The moments I experienced here and there of insight felt almost unreal. Whenever I would have one of those 'direct seeing' insights, the sensation while I had those insights was like a Eureka but 10x bigger and the insight was "burned into me."
The habits and 'personality' changes, the way meditation changes the brain, and the direct seeing experiences convince me that nirvana is real and permanent. Also the fact that I've never before felt this calm and happy in my life, long-term. Also side note I remember Leigh Brasington mentioning that the insight he obtained from the Jhanas changed him forever.
Well, maybe so!
As an aspiring Buddhist academic I thoroughly enjoy these videos Doug! This is a tricky subject and you handled it well!
I would suggest Nirvana/Nibbana is better understood as an insight rather than a ‘state’. That said, there is certainly a moment in the stream of experience in which Nibbana can arise, and in that specific moment it can be argued there is a state of Nibbana (or prehaps a non-state of Nibbana)? What there isn’t is ‘anyone’ there experiencing Nibbana at that precise moment. There is just Nibbana. Once that precise moment has passed the insight remains, the individual returns to the phenomenal world permanently changed by the insight.
So Nibbana’s insight is retained but, as I understand it, even the arhat is not permanently “in” a state of Nibbana but rather permanently relived of dukkah due to the complete and final realization of that insight - which is permanent eradication of all the Fettas.
While fixating or craving Nibbana is literally taking you in the opposite direction of the insight, I would suggest that Buddhism becomes meaningless as Buddhism without Nibbana (sorry Stephen Batchelor). i.e. One may attend Olympic training school but if you’re doing it to keep fit & not to get to the Olympics, you are not really attending Olympic training school with the goal of fulifilling that distinct purpose but rather - just keeping fit at a particular school. Which has its merits too but isn’t the purpose of Olympic training school.
I also argue the for the Western mind the inability to let go of concepts and conceptual thinking, to have a “pliable” mind (as Buddha advised) and putting Nibbana up on an unobtainable pedestal - are all primary reasons they don’t reach this difficult but certainly realizable goal.
Much Metta
Thanks for the comments Brendan! To my knowledge Stephen Batchelor doesn't see a Buddhism without Nibbāna; he is simply seeing Nibbāna as a state (or insight) more closely related to events here and now rather than in supposed future lives. Though I'm not up on everything he's said about the subject. All that said, while Buddhism "needs" Nibbāna as its final goal or aim, there is a lot to the path that is not Nibbāna. The Buddha gave quite detailed teachings to laypeople for example, which did not presuppose that they would become monastics, nor engage in the sort of renunciation necessary to strive for the final goal, at least in this lifetime.
As you are a buddhist academic, may I ask a question as a buddhist practitioner.
I have no issue with the goal of enlightenment, I see how Nirvana can be achieved "the cessation of suffering". We can't say what it is, but we can say what it isn't. We can say what the qualities of an enlightened being are, etc, etc.
For buddhists this is cause and effect, simple and natural.
My issue comes from the buddhist aspiration. We say "may I achieve enlightenment for the sake of all sentient beings". Nirvana isn't for us (even thought it's when we realize there is no us) but for others.
Say you devote your entire human life to spiritual practice, as a finite being, there are finite good actions you can take with right intention that could lead you to enlightenment.
My question is what happens after enlightenment? And after death?
Then the answer i get is there is no birth there is no death. And you realize this in meditation. Okay.
I fail to see how a being that achieves enlightenment helps other beings when has achieved enlightenment.
This is barely mentioned in buddhism! And seems like a crucial link! It's all about how to get there (which is fine), but what about afterwards?
So what if there is a cessation of suffering.
I have read something that Buddhas are omnipresent and omnipotent. The lack inherent existence but emanate and manifest to do good in the world. This is the closest answer I've gotten to what happens after enlightenment.
This answer either doesn't get answered, or gets answered with something supposing the question is absurd. It isn't absurd.
For example, many say Thich Naht Han hasn't died and lives through us. Okay I can see how actions in his life have spread out to other beings and now exist as good qualities in other beings, as he didn't exist in the first place. Is this the answer then? What happens to an enlightened being at death? How does he help all sentient beings?
If you can answer it is much appreciated.
@@rohlay00
First thing to note is your question combines at least three (possibly more) schools of Buddhist thought - who all explain the concepts you’re discussing differently.
The vow to liberate all beings is only found in Mahayana Buddhism. And the vow belongs to a distinct set of teachings of that particular school. I have no expertise in this school so I can’t answer from a Mahayana perspective.
You also mention Thich Naht Hahn - he has founded his own tradition based on a zen approach - again I cannot answer anything related to zen because I’ve not studied it.
I have studied Theravada traction and early Buddhist schools & the Suttas etc.
So answering your question form that school’s perspective. Your question has a misperception in it. You ask who can get enlightened if there is no you. But you’re not relay believing the statement becaue you’ve not reached it through insight. There never was a you to get enlightened.
What does get enlightened is ignorance. Nothing else.
“You” can’t do anything other than cultivate conditions and wait for insight to arise. You can’t get liberated by trying - except by creating conditions for insight to arise in. That’s the entire job because “you” are not in control - you just believ you are because of delusion.
What happens to enlightened beings after death? I don’t know form experience. I am not enlightened nor dead.
The Buddha himself would say something like…you enter Parri-Nibbana which is forever (& outside of all time) Nibbana.
In that state there is no thought, no concept, no being, no becoming, no creating, no forming. Just emptiness and unconditional love.
I hope this helps somewhat - I hope you get liberated and then you can tell me! : )
Hi Doug. You are certainly not afraid of difficult subjects. Your descriptions are relevant. Someone who is familiar with all the ingredients of a cake may still not know what the complete cake tastes like. The difficulty here is trying to use words to describe an experience.
The separateness we feel in our lives is more like a virtual reality. It's the way the world functions. Maya, commonly described as illusion, can also be interpreted as 'magic trick'. We are participating in and watching a play unfolding around us. We have to suspend the reality inherent in all of us for it to work. Desire is part of that play and can only come into existence because we see everything as 'other' than us. Even logic will tell us that there can be no desire without separateness.
Nirvana is the extinguishing of the flame of desire, no more attachment. Although we may not be aware of it, we are already there. That is the Buddha (awakened) Nature in all of us. We can only uncover it by letting go of the illusion of separateness around us, including the egoic idea that we are individuals (remember Anatta). We cannot manage that by trying because we will have set up a goal that is, again, perceived as separate.
Reaching that understanding, our perspective will have changed but we can continue our worldly journey after awakening to the Absolute Reality. As the Zen quotation says; "Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water." The reasons for this worldly illusion happening will have to wait for another discussion.
It is indeed a very complex subject martynsnan, and all we can hope to do is point at it from a position of relative ignorance and speculate a little. Thanks for your thoughts! 🙂
Hi Doug,
enlightening, particularly the implication that those who talk and talk about awaking are in general those who are not getting on with the practice,, myself included.
If put against a wall, I would say, it is ineffable in the sense, as you say, in the experience apprehended, and this is an ever-unfolding ever apprehending experience.
I go back to a previous comment regarding a positive feedback loop which is self-augmenting, I know this to be true at least subjectively because even in my experience of meditation I touch the liberating flavor of freedom from greed hatred, and delusion, wrapped in morbid self-regard.
“That Love is all there is,
Is all we know of Love.”
Emily Dickinson
From this "knowing," faith arises and I continue to practice; focussing on the process, not the task. Not for some grand experience, but with as much humility, as my current personality, biases, and tendencies can be directed, for the good of all beings, including myself.
Thanks again so much, I wish I could contribute to your Patreon page, but I am not in a position to do so at the moment, if however there is anything practical I can do to be of assistance, I am time rich and would be very happy, as much as living in Scotland, as I could do anything to help.
Be well, and thank you again so much for your teachings, they are truly an inspiration, both in their elucidation of Buddha Dharma and their practical import.
I'm off to meditate!
Aye the best, James.
PS. Have you covered the six-element practice? If you haven't, It would be good if you could.
Thanks very much James! Yes, I agree that practice should be seen as a process that unfolds through our direct seeing of experience, and that to an extent that is all we have. As to the element practice, I did mention the four element practice in my video on Mindfulness of the Body, which you can see in my Four Foundations of Mindfulness playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PL0akoU_OszRjItCXmF-MMPdKwTdtGSxl-.html . I'm not so familiar with a six-element practice; usually in the early texts the practice is a four element one. (There are IIRC a few places in the early texts where space and consciousness is added to the elements, but they may be later interpolations).
I feel nirvana is an intuitive realization which enables one to perceive things as they are instead of how we want them to be with a sense of relaxed detachment
Yes that makes a lot of sense Sonam. I think what you're talking about is the ending of delusion. It's also the end of greed and hatred.
You can't " feel " nirvana is anything if you haven't experienced it, dude.
This is why I like the descriptions given in the books of Carlos Castañeda. He talks about The known, the unknown and the unknowable. Also that descriptions of the world are a bit like a layer of varnish over reality, but that they are not reality itself, although our brain it's tendency is to be caught up by our internal dialogue (the mind),.... and as soon as we quiet the mind a separation takes place and we can more objectively look at our thoughts and better see the mind for what it is. These are then the heightened states of awareness ( samadhi, jhanas).... he calls it The second attention. In those books it is described as a movement of our focal point outside of it's regular fixed position of daily/regular awareness. At a certain point through practise, you can learn to move the foca point to new spots in our glow of awareness. However the ultimate goal is to consciously move into total absorption. (Nirvana) And yes, it is beyond description. I like watching the near death experience vids. They offer clues to the essence of reality, that you will recognize when in states of absorbtion.
🙏😊
I find Castaneda description of the known, unknown, and unknowable. I read his work obsessively when I was in my twenties.
Synchronicity... I had read Castaneda for 20 years. I started rereading The Power of Silence a few days ago
Doug, I am very impressed and appreciative of how clearly and understandably you express your thoughts. Like probably many viewers, I am drawn to Buddhist thought, but am fundamentally rationalist in my views. The very idea of applying a thought experiment from the analytic philosophy of mind in this context - I myself have never had this idea, although it is obvious. Your contributions give me completely new ideas. Thank you for that and best regards from Vienna.Peter
You're very welcome Peter, yes it comes from my background and training in analytic philosophy. There is a lot of potential overlap! Love Vienna BTW, I've been there a couple of times! 🙏😊
Are you trying to experience nirvana peter? Are your " new ideas " ways that you will try to achieve nirvana?
“Silent illumination is just dropping all thoughts and words and going directly to the state of Chan.”
- Chan Master Sheng Yen (2005) Getting the Buddha Mind
Thoughts are like internal expressions, like internal speech, so that make it ineffable.
Suchness is more like an unlabelled version of direct perception of your immediate surroundings.
I don't think it's always permanent, but that it can become so if people stay immersed in it for long enough.
In my view a good example of an enlightened person can be seen in the series of question-answer sessions shown in the "A Teaching By Zen Master Jinen" series. He seems at least mildly happy all the time, and he explains how he experiences the world in a very clear and simple manner. He's very honest. He'll even tell you that Dogen's universal instruction of how to practice zazen is impossible to follow without the right experience.
I don't think that most Buddhists understand its 'nature.' I only see the term Nirvana as a useful contrast to Samsara.
Great "old" video, Doug! 🐱🙏
I think the "indescribable-thing" stems mainly from the Mahayana teaching about non-duality as presented in the (for example) Vimalakīrti Sūtra:
_When the bodhisattvas had given their explanations, they all addressed the crown prince Manjusri: "Manjusri, what is the bodhisattva's entrance into non-duality?"_
_Manjusri replied, "Good sirs, you have all spoken well. Nevertheless, all your explanations are themselves dualistic. To know no one teaching, to express nothing, to say nothing, to explain nothing, to announce nothing, to indicate nothing, and to designate nothing - that is the entrance into non-duality."_
_Then the crown prince Manjusri said to the Licchavi Vimalakirti, "We have all given our own teachings, noble sir. Now, may you elucidate the teaching of the entrance into the principle of non-duality!"_
_Thereupon, the Licchavi Vimalakirti kept his silence, saying nothing at all._
_The crown prince Manjusri applauded the Licchavi Vimalakirti: "Excellent! Excellent, noble sir! This is indeed the entrance into the non-duality of the bodhisattvas. Here there is no use for syllables, sounds, and ideas."_
Many Zen teachers today are massively influenced by this kind of understanding. They define nirvana rather as a state of non-dual awareness, not as the fading away (or absence) of greed, hatred and delusion. Which raises the question if these Zen Buddhists are still actually Buddhist or not. But that's another topic... 😂🤐
Right, lots of deep questions here. I think you're right that this has a lot to do with the growing importance of non-duality in the dharma. Another issue is the Bodhisattva ideal where much later Buddhism rejects the aim of becoming an arahant.
I’m very new to the ideas of Buddhism but my thoughts from this video and one other of yours is possibly that Nirvana is the best possible state of being we can experience in a given moment... free of expectations of what it should be, what it should feel like or what it should bring?
I think that's right Trevor, although it's also more than that, because it's supposed to be a state that once we truly achieve it is permanent. We can get glimpses of it beforehand, but awakening is supposed to be something that changes us forever.
I get the impression that awakening is permanent in a similar way that works in a psychological exercise I read and did in the past, where you count the amounts of “it” words (“it” used in this example, although it might have been the “f” letter, I forget as I did that exercise over ten years ago, but I think it may work with different words or letters) in a text sample and then you double check with a word find on a word processor like Pages or Microsoft Word. You will find that the human brain will have missed counting some of the “it” words (or “f” letters.) But once your brain perceives all the “it” words you missed, your brain cannot un-see them. In that way, your brain realizes something that is in a way permanent. You will try the exercise on other text samples and accurately count all the “it” words (or “f” letters) there. It is a funny/mind tickling psychological exercise. Experiencing the process causes the brain to avoid making the mistake in the future. But then who knows how permanent that is. I haven’t redone that exercise since. Maybe others have. But that said, I sense that this generally is closer to how awakening/realization happens. What do you think, Doug? What do others reading this think? I would be interested in hearing all your thoughts about this.
Maybe so, but even in cases like you mention, is the "seeing" really permanent? Or just relatively stable for awhile? If you went away from the page for a few years, would you still be guaranteed to catch all the letters?
Nicely EXPLAINED..and i am overwhelmed by u way of sticking to BASIC OBJECTIVE of Buddha to PRACTICE & QUESTIONING & UTILIZE this for self & society..to decrese negative emotions...to holistic growth as humankind...thank you
That’s right chandrakant! Thank you for watching and commenting. 🙏
Sir i am practicing Eight Fold Path..and as I am progressing I find it is a work of scientist...5 AGGREGATES....Buddha approach like modern Scientist...your videos are very beneficial as I am practicing more & more find your talk very much relevant...not diverting from the Buddha's main objective...thank you
You’re very welcome chandrakant!
@@DrCK-mn2tb To attained Nirvana , you must practice Vipassana meditation. You cant attained Nirvana just by reading books.
Nirvana means you would detache from carving & anger.
What you will realise is everything in this world is impermanant. It arises and passes away. Therefore, Arahath person ( person who attained enlightenment ) got the practical knowledge by doing Vipassana meditation.
Still he can feel pain but he is detached from them.
He doesnt feel good or bad of any thing as everything is beyond his control.
Readers cant figure it out just by reading books. This is something we gain from practicing.......
There are 3 more stages before NIRVANA.
1) SOWAHAN ( 7 more lives to go)
2) SAKURUDHAGAMI ( 2 more lives to go)
3) ANAAGAMI ( 1 more lives to go )
4) NIRVANA ( this is the last life)
To learn vipassana meditation check out bellow link. This institute is based in India where buddha was born. they got over 130 of meditation centers in world wide.
dhamma.org
with metta
@@pasanperera6460
Sir r u a practioner
If I remember the Buddah saw directly his previous lives and how those fetters led to his continuing rebirth. Knowing that the fetters were the cause of rebirth, he eliminated the fetters not in the ordinary mind we have, but deep down onto his karmic seeds. He experienced his many births and experienced the "root mind" that caused all of them, so he could work to remove those cravings that deeply. Under that premisse, even if he had his brain damaged, he could not give rise to anger, because he has removed the karmic cause of it. It's like the brain was a radio equipment, but the Buddah defeated the transmitor for the station anger FM, so even if you messed with the radio equipment you couldn't tunne with those mental states anymore, because their signal isn't available.
Now, those are some quite extraordinary claims and I don't think they can be proved. But I think you can't make a coherent understanding of nirvana separated from the doctrines of karma and rebirth, but once you consider the idea of rebirth you can rationaly understand it. Thankfully, stressing over nirvana isn't needed for benefiting of the practice and might even be detrimental to it.
As for going beyond concepts. All experience is beyond concepts really. We can only comunicate because we have a shared bases of experiences, but the concepts are just fingers pointing to the moon. One aspect of nirvana might be the understanding of the relativity of concepts and experiences and seing the aspect of our mind that constructs them and is therefore in a sense not bound by them. I think that might be a more "nagarjunian" understanding maybe. But the thing is, when we see concepts as concepts and our mind quietens I think all those discutions become meaningless. I also think that it might be possible that nirvana might encompass giving up on permanent things, maybe even nirvana. At least in Zen, that is where I come from, that seems very clear, don't know about the early tradition.
Yes, thanks Gabriel. It does mean ceasing to cling to anything permanent, including nirvana itself.
Hey, Doug. Great video, as always. I was wondering, is there anywhere I can find your essays? I enjoy reading them, and I seem to have trouble finding a number of them on the SBA site. Would they happen to be collected elsewhere?
I've been intending to collect them and make them available, but as of now they're only on the SBA site. They should be there, but the search function isn't great. If there's one in particular you're looking for let me know.
@@DougsDharma For some reason, none of the links to your articles are accessible. They lead me somewhere called example dot com. I'm not sure what the issue is. It could just be (and probably is) a problem on my end. Anyway, thanks for the response, and if there's an essay I'm looking for, I'll let you know.
@@poklar Ah yeah, I noticed a similar problem recently, I think it's some sort of server misconfiguration or something. Last I checked it was OK but anyway it's not just on your end.
I experienced a flash of insight while listening to this. Thank you
Glad to hear it Scott!
Loved it Doug sir as always...
Thanks Dilip! 🙏
Thank you for the thoughtful videos, Doug. I like your discussion of Mary living in the room with no color and than experiencing red. If nirvana is based on a change to accurate perception, it seems there would be some permanents to it. It’s difficult to not perceive something after perceiving correctly and difficult to understand that thing before perceiving it. It could be something like riding a bike. Best wishes and have a wonderful day! Joe
Thanks Joe! 🙏
will look forward to this tomorrow
Glad to hear it Alfred. It will be waiting. 😀
regarding awakening as permanent, adyashanti described it as that he doesn't believe have "sticky" thoughts for very long anymore. they still come up but the gap between them coming up and him seeing through them is short. that said he made a point that for all he knows he could get totally absorbed into a thought in the next moment.
Interesting, thanks!
I've gotten as as being able to stay in a sort of pre-nirvana, the issue is staying there, you can describe it but no description can truly explain it or can it be felt without actually being there yourself. Simply: past cases to be, future gone from the mind, and you are left in the now. It is true peace, silence, freedom, and a place where once you see it you want nothing more than to stay there. Bliss isn't the thing you think it is, it isn't a state of feeling good, it is a subtle peace in which not even happiness compares. A complete stilling of the mind and all thoughts, worries, etc. It allows you to see the world exactly as it is without an "i" or "me." To interact with the world and observe it purely in the moment without thought itself. It is like meditation even when you live your life, the need to force yourself not to think slowly slips and non thinking is almost natural, it ceases desire because as you spend more time in the state the more you seek distance from those things that take you away from there. With practice slowly desire itself stills. The only thing that has helped me deal with serious mental illness is the path and practicing it, it becomes permanent because once certain neuro pathways become established those pathways become the new normal.
That's great to hear, Flux it. Thanks for letting us know, and I hope you continue with such success.
I’ve been there too ... I just don’t know how !
You still alive abysrael? Were your eyes opened or closed when you did it?
My understanding was liberation/nirvana only happened at death. If you can remain conscious right after death you’ll remain in that state. I Just can’t figure if that is forever or for 49 days.
Well there are two kinds of liberation in the early texts. Liberation "with remainder", otherwise known as nibbāna/nirvana, which is what happened to the Buddha under the Bodhi tree and lasted several decades, and liberation "without remainder", otherwise known as parinibbāna/parinirvana, that happened at death. But one can't be said to "remain" in that state after death. What exactly happens after the death of an awakened person is one of the Buddha's famous "unanswered questions": ua-cam.com/video/59FXAW3AS2I/v-deo.html
Hi, Doug. I had an experience I could only describe as Nirvana in 2015 under half of doze of a particular psychodelic I did for therapeutic purposes. Prior to it I had read The Teachings of Buddha so I had a framework going into the experience that allowed to understand what was happening as the experience unfolded. To not go into too much detail as to the context around the experience, your senses wake up where I could hear the wind coming from afar, I could smell the dirt, etc., follow by the cessation of thought which seemed that this lead to my heart opening. The best way I can describe it after this experience is such that when we are caught up in the dream of thought(identified with our mind), our heart remains close but the moment we're able to stop the flow of thought, our heart opens. I'll explain this state in two different aspects. One being that when thought comes to cessation, it's as if we wake up within a dream. Such dream being the dream of thought we're all under. What you wake up to is the present moment. The second aspect of the heart opening is entering the state of nonduality or oneness in which though the point of perception is still you, you do feel one with the cosmos. Now to adress your comment about Nirvana not being something out of the extraordinary if I understand you correctly, it is indeed perhaps the most mystical and religious experience one could ever have. Particularly for the following reasons: 1. In this nondual state, the sense of oneness is experienced as a physical feeling of love that is experience internally as well as externally. Imagine you were underwater but substitute the water for the feeling of love. 2. An undiscribable sense of peace that you have never experience as well as seen the world through the eyes of a child again. And last 3. Once your mind stops and you wake up to the present moment, a clarity into things such as we all do what we do because we are searching for love, how everything(all the suffering of human race) has being one huge misunderstanding, etc.
I should also add that the so called feeling of bliss described as an inherent quality of such state in Buddhist literature is the physical feeling of being emerged in the feeling of love that I spoke about.
This is what all the prophets and saints of all traditions have spoken of throughout human history and what all religions have risen from.
I think the experience should be better adressed as though indeed mystical, available to everyone. It's an experience that changes you forever. In my case it was just a taste as I did not have the conditions necessary to crystalize this state. However, knowing that the state of awakening/Nirvana is a possibility, there's not a doubt in my mind that it's something I would like to cultivate and strive towards for the rest of my life for my own benefit as well as the benefit of our world.
Thanks for letting us know your experience Irving!
That wasn't nirvana dude. That was a physical mind altering drug.
I have been to Nirvana. Didn’t believe in that stuff.. grew up religious (not Buddhist). Took me a high dose of Ketamine during a KaT therapy session. I let my ego go, just let go… went to state of consciousness where time and space folded on itself, and there was nothing but bright light, me, and the universe and nothing. I felt a state of complete peace and balance. No time or space or other awareness. I can’t describe it accurately. There are not really words to describe it. I guess I prepared myself for anything. I was definitely starting to awaken and heal my darkness, but I was still full of pain. That pain did not exist in Nirvana. There is no other word for that experience. I am
Fortunate to ever get to that state of consciousness period. Why do some seek Nirvana and never reach it right and others don’t care and reach it?🤷🏻♀️ The universe is strange . Nirvana is the ONLY word for it. It is a real state. I hope everyone can experience it someday . I got there with a booster then a high dose of Ketamine. I prepared before the journey. The original intention was NOT Nirvana, but yet I did absolutely reach this state. My life has been forever changed now. The world stops making sense, and everything makes sense after a profound experience like that.If I did NOT reach Nirvana then Nirvana simply does not exist. High doses of medically assisted Ketamine can induce a near death experience. It has been documented over and over by decades of medical research and trials.
Thanks for bringing these aspects of Buddhism into our focus.My understanding of Nirvana
is, that it is indeed challenging to come to terms with Nirvana whilst we still operate with the defilements of insight that probably distort our view of it. Normally we proceed from moment to moment largely absent from dukkha. But at some stage dukkha will arise because the conditions for it are still operating in the five aggregates. We might follow this by supposing about whether this will happen again or whether we are prone to any more dukkha. This of course is dukkha itself. If we follow the Noble Eightfold path and Four Noble Truths, at some point we will penetrate these factors at such a deep level That nearly all the conditions of dukkha will fall away and we will know with certainty that they have gone, Nirvana. Whatever fruitions of Karma(vipaka) that are still pending we will be aware of, but will no longer speculate about, like a drop of rain that splashes harmlessly from a blue sky. Keep up the good work Doug.
Thanks John, what you suggest makes a lot of sense!
From my understanding, nirvana happens after concept of self is eliminated by practice, wisdom of non-self is establish.
This wisdom is so strong so that it becomes natural tendency. (At least stronger than our sense of self.)
For normal people, we always include sense of self whatever we think.
For those who attained nirvana, no matter how the mind changes, the natural tendency of mind will always push towards non self.
Natural tendency is unchanged because it is builted on unchange truth.
Hi Doug
This is my experience and the bliss, understanding and words came afterwards. Am I mistaken? I can’t imagine being functional in this state perpetually although it does explain some of Ramans’s apparent need for functional support
It is clear sight or in other words seeing things as they are w no relation to “you”… literally no thought, no sensation, no time, no words, no self so much so that these things are not even missed or there is nothing that could even miss them …
E erything is normally perceived by how it relates to you or how you feel about it without a you to even know there ever was a you what is there?
Just what IS
Like a newborn baby
Hi again Doug 🙂, I have a doubt , does nibbana is Nirodha samapati? (cessation of perception and feeling ), thanks for your videos , you are the best 😁
Hi David, no nirodha samāpatti is not the same as nibbāna. It's said to be a stage of basically suspended animation. I am dubious about whether it is a real thing or not, but be that as it may it's simply another stage of deep samādhi. Traditionally it's said that only awakened people (arahants) can achieve it, FWIW.
@@DougsDharma thank you so much Doug 🙂, what is nibbana exactly? ( within the explainable) I thought that nibbana (without residues) was a "state" free of khandas" thus the cessation of mind and body activities (without being annihilationism)....
I know that nibbana in life is the eradication of desire, hate and ignorance
thanks for always answer questions about the "religious part of early buddhism", you are the best Doug
Traditionally, nibbāna without remainder is simply the fading away of the khandas never to return, due to complete non-clinging and non-identification, and therefore the complete uprooting of the underlying tendencies to greed, hatred, and delusion. Basically anything else significant that one might want to say about it will end up as one of the Buddha's "unanswered questions".
@@DougsDharma thanks again Doug, that explained a lot 🙏🙏☸ i hope watch more new videos from your channel soon, I like them ver much
Metta 🙏🙂☸
I struggle with the idea of whether it is possible to become fully enlightened. If one was to eradicate their desires and aversions, would they not just be in a state of inertia? What reason would there be to eat? What reason would there be to even move at all?
I guess there would be no problem with either of these things if you truly had no desires/aversion.
Maybe it is only possible to reduce aversion to pain (and desire for pleasure) up to a point (e.g. mental/physical pain from starvation might be too much?).
Well the aim of enlightenment isn't literally to eradicate all desires. Just for example, the Buddha was enlightened and he is portrayed as having plenty of ordinary, skillful desires. The aim is rather to eradicate unskillful desire states, which we ordinarily term "greed" or "craving". I did an earlier video on this topic that may interest you: ua-cam.com/video/VeShNoUXnxw/v-deo.html
@@DougsDharma Thanks! I'll check it out
The problem I have with describing mental states,is you can can describe to me how you perceive things,but I'll never know how you actually perceive things
True, you have to see for yourself.
I think this question is a good question.Is Nirvana something that you progress towards and then once you obtain it you progress no further? Or is it an experiance that periodically occurs every now and then? I rather see it as something that occurs every now and then, rather than something that once you learn how to reach it you progress no further. I think that once you learn how to reach it you can then learn to stay in that state for longer periods of time as well as how to go into that state of Nirvana more fuequently. I think that most likely alot of us including myself have reached Nirvana at least periodically however some people can stay in that state for longer periods of time as well as go into it more fuequently than others.Thinking of Nirvana as something that once you reached that's the end doesn't really seem like it's an idea that resonates with me.
Yes, interesting Gary. Though that's how it's explicitly portrayed in the early texts: it's something that you can achieve once and for all with the complete extirpation of the fires of greed, hatred, and ignorance. Who knows? Nevertheless I tend to think your approach is more likely: that it's something we can attain to for longer periods as we get farther along the path.
If you don't wanna end, you may still continue taking as many rebirths as you can here on Earth. Nothing to lose. Once one realized it, one may seek liberation to get out of that cycle and may move on to a different plane ..
Would say the 4 noble truths are a description leading up to the result of what nirvana is or is not? Or are there more conditions?
Well the Noble Truths are simply descriptions of the problem, the reason for the problem, the fact that there is a solution, and the solution. But it's all very compact so there is always more to be said. I'll be doing a series on the Four Noble Truths presently ... 🙂
Love your channel! I have experienced "nirvana" in a lucid dream about 5-6 years ago. It was a spontaneous event. My heart chakra startet to throb very intensely and finally it "exploded". And in that explosion I was transformed into pure, brilliant white light. I remember not having an identity, or any concept of self or time or space. It was just pure ecstasy beyond anything imaginable. I know it is a contradiction; how can "I" remember not being an "I"? I guess even the laws of logic have their limitation!
Ohh, I wish I could replicate the experience. I have tried several times in other lucid dreams to get my heart center throbbing like that, but no go. It did not transform my life, nor my personality. That I think is and will allways be a work in progress.
Skål for dharmahjulet!
Thanks Kurt! Sounds like an amazing experience, thanks for letting us know about it. 🙂
Actually once you attain Nirvana, you never lost it. There is no entering and getting out of it.
To attained Nirvana , you must practice Vipassana meditation. You cant attained Nirvana just by reading books.
Nirvana means you would detache from carving & anger.
What you will realise is everything in this world is impermanant. It arises and passes away. Therefore, Arahath person ( person who attained enlightenment ) got the practical knowledge by doing Vipassana meditation.
Still he can feel pain but he is detached from them.
He doesnt feel good or bad of any thing as everything is beyond his control.
Readers cant figure it out just by reading books. This is something we gain from practicing.......
There are 3 more stages before NIRVANA.
1) SOWAHAN ( 7 more lives to go)
2) SAKURUDHAGAMI ( 2 more lives to go)
3) ANAAGAMI ( 1 more lives to go )
4) NIRVANA ( this is the last life)
To learn vipassana meditation check out bellow link. This institute is based in India where buddha was born. they got over 130 of meditation centers in world wide.
dhamma.org
with metta
Seen a white light is a normal thing for a meditator. We have been taught to ignore those lights as they will guide us to a different target which is completely different from NIRVANA.
Anybody can see different colors of lights when they try keep their mind in one object ( mindfulness ).
What u feel the bliss...Is not nirvana but the stages of SAMADHI..A bliss state..Which is a part of craving...And goal of vipassana is to go beyond this craving ...By practice..Plz continue your practice not to seek the bliss state but go beyond tha...You are at stage 4(stage of rupture) of
7 stages of enlightenment are
1)Mindfulness (sati, Sanskrit smrti). To maintain awareness of reality (dharma).
2)Investigation of the nature of reality (dhamma vicaya, Skt. dharmapravicaya).
3)Energy (viriya, Skt. vīrya) also determination, effort
4)Joy or rapture (pīti, Skt. prīti)
5)Relaxation or tranquility (passaddhi, Skt. prashrabdhi) of both body and mind
6)Concentration, (samādhi) a calm, one-pointed state of mind,[1] or clear awareness
7)Equanimity (upekkha, Skt. upekshā). To accept reality as-it-is (yathā-bhuta) without craving or aversion.
I personally have experienced deep states of bliss through present moment awareness letting thought and emotions arise and pass, relay by reading “the power of now” and intensely being in the here and now. But that bliss comes and goes, but I do feel I can accept the moment for what it is and come to equanimity , even though I may not “ feel happy “ I can be at peace. But I do think nirvana is a state of deep peaceful abiding in the here and now and is a bit of a mystical state in some ways.
Nice you can find that bliss Ryan. Thanks for letting us know.
As this state of bliss is also a form of craving...goal is to move from this (craving&aversion)...To get Equanimity a state next to (craving&aversion)... This state of bliss are the stages of SAMADHI..JHANA 5 stages...It help to cultivate 7 stages of Enlightments..
1)Mindfulness (sati, Sanskrit smrti). To maintain awareness of reality (dharma).
2)Investigation of the nature of reality (dhamma vicaya, Skt. dharmapravicaya).
3)Energy (viriya, Skt. vīrya) also determination, effort
4)Joy or rapture (pīti, Skt. prīti)
5)Relaxation or tranquility (passaddhi, Skt. prashrabdhi) of both body and mind
6)Concentration, (samādhi) a calm, one-pointed state of mind,[1] or clear awareness
7)Equanimity (upekkha, Skt. upekshā). To accept reality as-it-is (yathā-bhuta) without craving or aversion.
INDESCRIBABLE: It is not that Nirvana cannot be described, it can. The problem is that Nirvana is very challenging to describe to an unenlightened worldling. The reason for this is because an unenlightened person has no way to connect the explanations of Nirvana rightly and many such explanations would fall very short or even lead to harmful wrong views. You can say unconditioned, freedom, limitlessness itself, a mode of mind that is completely undisturbed, as if a spring had been completely purified of any impurities. Think of a dew drop in a spiders web... it reflects every other dew drop in the web... for an enlightened mind, any combination of the 5 aggregates that the mind could reference or build would be taking something up that disturbs the mind. It is non attachment to anything that could be reflected, but without getting rid of the reflections. It's being imperturbable, the state of NON or UNBOUND. It's like unbound potentiality, perfect satisfaction itself, both existence and non-existence are samsara (modes of greed, aversion, and delusion) The reason Nirvana is permanent is because there cannot be aversion to this perfect state once its been cultivated because the dependent condition for aversion has been destroyed. Dissatisfaction has been destroyed and appropriation of identity within the five aggregates has been abandoned, and with it, the burden of actions performed in ignorance. It is literally a recognized experience and the issue with it is worldlings have not experienced it, so they are referencing the above descriptions wrongly due to information constructs that are conditioned, dependent upon the body, language, associations, etc. and therefor do not "land" rightly. It's impossible simply due to any description leading a worldling to potentially take up and assume a wrong view. It could lead to problems with the meditator trying to seek to make their view fit Nirvana instead of purifying themselves of wrong views through purifying their behavior and investigating.
PERMANENT: Samsara exists in moments that arise and pass away. This does not happen with Nirvana. It is undisturbed in such a way. This is how with right knowledge, there is the perfect understanding that you have gone beyond birth and death. Think of a computer monitor or TV screen... If a character in a movie realized the monitor, they would know for certain that any combination of the five aggregates would have to arise or pass away on this screen. They would be free from fear and know what is beyond birth and death. They would know that it is unconditioned freedom, because anything that could ever try to influence this liberation would be attempted on a level which has been overcome. This is infinitely more the case with Nirvana because the knowledge that comes from liberation contains all possibilities of any potential past, present, or future (because all three of these concepts are referenced in the present) You know that this shore is beyond anything else, even beyond the appropriation or conceit "I am." This would be indescribable to a worldling that has not penetrated the four noble truths and would still try to reference what is permanent to ideas, concepts, etc. that are based on contact at the intellect or some combination of aggregates. There are many ways to poke holes with the unenlightened views of the world, self, and reality. The issue comes from the wrong appropriation of the body as self, which is a wrong view due to this body being made of elements which will break apart and are ultimately not yours and never were yours. Actions themselves are dependent upon the world that one was born into, the language they learned, how they built their base of understanding and referenced anything with the body they were born into. Awakening is about removing the liabilities that this kind of ignorant assumption of aggregates and identities creates. Ideas of time and space, objects, etc, to a worldling, are all dependent upon taking up a body with sense organs and referencing them in some combination to crave and cling and act out, they ignorantly make themselves liable to these assumptions of what is on the computer monitor. It's about correcting a really bad habit of not looking because it feels painful and it feels painful because you don't understand and you don't understand because you don't look... People feel as though restraint is somehow depriving them of something, but nothing is ever truly lost. The aggregates aren't going anywhere and any particular combination of them is impermanent and creates a liability to craving when delighted in. Even delight itself is seen as a danger because the drink you're delighting in had poison in it to begin with. Any good things will be taken which is painful due to clinging and any bad thing encountered is suffering due to aversion. It's only unseen because of delusion which cannot be outrun after death since the mind instantly loses access to the sense organs which were used to reference any of its cravings to begin with, so the five aggregates get appropriated again and a new identity is "taken up" new understandings formed, etc. like a video game character being reset without any knowledge or memory of its previous runs. It sounds fun maybe a time or two or even thirty, but not infinitely. Losing progress and memories that are dependent upon either faculties that haven't been developed or a body which dies in your example of Alzheimer's, all the while not having the knowledge of the extent of any actions of body, speech, and mind, and being liable to the suffering that these actions lead with little to no control is not a great situation to be in.
What The Buddha said was that all conditioned things are impermanent, right? To me that means things that exist, but does not necessarily include things that do not exist. I think he would have agreed that square circles do not exist and permanently so. This makes me think that nirvana is not something that exists but rather the permanent destruction of something that did exist but does not and cannot again because it's cause (conditioning) has been eliminated somehow.
You make a good point in that we don't know (according to modern science) how greed, hatred and delusion specifically can be permanently removed; but, to do some apologetics here, it does seem like we can permanently forget things, right? So, maybe we can analogously permanently stop having whatever causes them (i.e. "craving"?) somehow.
Sure, it's conceivable, maybe it's possible.
Hi Doug
As always I had a great time viewing your video, but I can’t avoid bothering you with not one but two comments.
1 - I see enlightenment as the starting point of Buddhism (along with most eastern religions and in a more subtle way several others) as well as the backbone of its practice and its final goal/outcome.
However this subject receives frequently a “secondary” treatment, and seems to be almost avoided by many who have an active role in the Dharma.
Looking at Buddhism as a set of norms of conduct from which we can all benefit may be an approach with the best intentions, but I would say that its missing and neglecting its most remarkable point of interest: enlightenment.
Shouldn’t at least the western world with our “scientific life view” have a higher interest in a more systematized study of enlightenment?
I recognize all the difficulties of doing this but limiting ourselves to an “Occidentalized reproduction of an eastern school of thought” with the only aim of benefitting from its “social” benefits seems very limiting.
I agree that a kinder, wiser and more stress free world sounds great, but isn’t that missing the real point (the real gem) which is enlightenment?
Am I being unfair in how I am reading your messages?
2 - I know from personal experience that the enlightenment experience is in some cases a source of sufferance. Enlightenment brings answers and offers a view that doesn’t necessarily matches the mindset and beliefs that one holds, and the confrontation with this newly acquired knowledge can be a considerable shock.
Knowing the truth is one thing, enjoying it is another!!!
Not being able to deal with this subject may leave those that might be exposed to enlightenment in a very discomforting position (to say the least).
Being yourself a communicator of the Buddhist methods of attaining enlightenment how do you see the impact that your work may cause on others.
Sorry for the long comment but I couldn’t avoid it.
Hi Paulo and thanks for the question! I think for the purposes of a UA-cam channel, the social and psychological benefits of practice are most important. This aims mostly at householders with limited time for study and practice. I do mention awakening (I prefer that term) quite a bit on the channel, but its more an ideal than a reality for all or virtually all of us. Meanwhile even Bhikkhu Bodhi has made the point that in the West too much emphasis is often put on personal practice and not enough on social engagement. 🙂
Thanks Doug. Most enlightening answer, intellectually I mean! ;-)
I see that others are being shot through nirvana. This has brought me some peace. But I would prefer that more people have the opportunity to understand it. I will share your video so people may contemplate it but I would not be against continuing a discussion with you. I must recognize that I have achieved states near what you're describing in this video. My email is 1tshaka.curtis@gmail.com. I would like to repurpose my mind to initially my control then to the control of a higher power as I am no longer relevant. If we may have a discussion, please reach out to me.
I supposed the "permanence" of enlightenment is related to the acquisition of the qualia of it. You "opened the door", so to speak. And with that, the associated descriptors of the state and the dharma overall are not just learned concepts but rather a personally valid experience.
Certainly on the smaller scale of mindfulness we can relate. You can tell someone all about what it means to be mindful and what meditation is like. But without actually sitting down and doing the practice, you probably won't have access to the experience and change in perspective. It doesn't mean you are perpetually in a deep meditative state. But you did gain a qualia that carries over to your common experience of the world.
That would be my laiman's understanding at least.
Right, you have to see these for yourself to know.
I agree with your outlook Doug that awakening is something that we aim towards and get closer to, but not some realisable complete and permanent state. I think the writers of the early texts, in writing about it that way, were likely influenced by the general cosmology and world view of their place and time. This does not mean that we can’t have incredibly profound personal developments and experiences. I must point out that I don’t completely rule out the possibility of some kind of permanent awakening. But I would like to see some very strong evidence of it, rather than sporadic personal testimonies and ancient texts. And really, it is not necessary. The dharma is incredibly deep, meaningful and important without the need for extra-human elements.
That's right, the ideal is enough for us to continue practice, so long as we see real benefit.
@@DougsDharma 🫶🙏🏻
I would like to send you a book....what is a good email address to send it to?
You can send it to my website at oid@onlinedharma.org. Thanks!
@@DougsDharma This email address did not work Doug. Can you verify it?
Sorry it should be odi@onlinedharma.org
@@DougsDharma This link should work for you to download it from Google Drive.
tinyurl.com/FreeBuddhaBook
Hello! I was wondering, can you say that nirvana is metaphysical? According to Sangharakshita (1998), Buddha is not a philosopher based on the argument that Buddha claimed to have no opinions on metaphysical matters. But since he taught about nirvana, he must have thought it was good. Would you say Sangharakshita's argument is valid?
Well I'm not sure what Sangharakshita means by "metaphysical", but to my mind there is a lot the Buddha had opinions about that was of metaphysical relevance.
@@DougsDharma Thank you for the answer!
Is Nirvana similar to the "we are all one" experience that certain new age spiritualities or the Unity Church talk about? You may have a point. If we work hard to get that experience it is an indication that we don't have it, and therefore we are unlikely to experience it. What do you think?
There are so many different interpretations of nirvana it's hard to say. In early Buddhism, nirvana had nothing to do with the kind of experience you're talking about though. It was an experience of the extinction of greed, hatred, and delusion through complete non-clinging and non-identification. Or at least that's how I'd understand it from the texts. I think working hard for it is an aspect of correct practice (or at least it was back in the Buddha's day), but eventually that has to be given up along with clinging to or thirsting for all things.
You didn't ask me, but I can say that it's not like those experiences. Those experiences, while very spiritual, are still egoic and "joined" with others--feeling the oneness of joinedness. Nirvana or Satori, is a state of being that feels nothing like you do with an egoic center, yet is more you and natural than anything else. The "I" is gone and the being is pervasive. It's on a completely different level and is unimaginable until you experience it. Then you realize you always have been it. Except there's no "you" experiencing it, as you are it and everything else. It's life-changing.
@@MysticFiddler1 Thanks, great. How long can that experience last for? A fraction of a second? I suspect you are going to say always because there is no time, just always. One of the things that frustrates me with spiritual discussion is that much of the meaning can be lost when put into words. It would be great if humanity could bypass words and communicate with direct thought.
@@timothyschmits825 The state lasts until you recreate an egoic center and even then you retain a great number of the abilities and awarenesses, though you have to then put them into "human" terms. You have to learn to function all over again (and yes, the answer would be "forever" but I understand what you're asking). Those who claim to have had Satori that lasted a few seconds have had an "Aha!" moment. If you extrapolate from an Aha moment and stretch it out, it still wouldn't quite be the state. The Aha would be an equivalent of two dimensions compared to a Satori of five. The true state is sustained until you unsustain it, which most would have to do to function on the material plane. Personally, I wonder what is beyond Satori, or if that is the highest state we can obtain while with a body. To explain what I mean about recreating an egoic center, pretend that you are looking at a cup someone has placed before you. It has a shape, color, depth, but evokes no feeling, per se. Now pretend the person who placed it before you is someone you love. You see it as "cute" or have some other opinion about it. As soon as you create the thought, and let go of the "be with the cup" experience, you've amassed some ego
@@MysticFiddler1 Thank you. I may have to read this a few times. There have been a few times when I was in a peaceful state of mind that I seem to have forgotten that I existed for a fraction of a second. It was too disorienting and scary to experience that for too long and it was necessary for me to feel separate again.
Very interesting! I have a question though. If nirvana is the end of rebirth and consciousness, why would we want to not stop being born again and stop being conscious?
Well from a traditional point of view, if you want to be reborn then you will! So it's nothing to worry about. 🙂
Doug's Dharma Great!
My question is: how can we know nirvana is the end of rebirth and consciousness? Because person who experiences this cannot tell us about it as he's no longer among us.
My point is, instead of trying to end up rebirthing, I would rather try to live this live as present as possible since I am not sure how someone can really say, there is certainly after life or rebirth after this life. I've seen a few videos where even some of monks usually answers the question "what happens after physical death" with "I don't know".
In summary, when I live strongly in the presence, there's no room for the fear of death. Therefore I find worrying about rebirth useless since we simply don't know what happens after death. There is only what is now. That's it. What do you think about this?
@@radekkubica6089 is nirvana like heaven? what is the true meaning of it
I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding there, Doug.
Nirvana is "permanent" in the sense that everything else is permanent: it isn't.
However, it is a mode of being that can be voluntarily accessed and triggered after enough practice. I believe that, when the Buddha talked about the permanence of Nirvana, he was talking about how "easily" an enlightened one could get in and out of the state. Therefore why he asked Shariputa "how do you abide these days?"
The word "abiding" is very precise in my limited experience: you can step in and out of it at will. How else would the Buddha be able to operate in the world and offer his discourses? Anyone who has experienced any of the Brahmaviharas knows what it feels like, and it's basically beyond description: it is a form of perfect equanimity, serenity, satisfaction... You feel radiant. People look at you different. Your voice sounds different, too. People can *see* that there's something about you that's not quite ordinary. And you *feel* at peace.
That being said, I can only imagine what true nirvana would feel like. Because the Brahmaviharas leave a taste, an "odor", that there's still something else to be done. That you have not yet concluded the job. There's more to be done. You feel that it's not permanent, but that you're on the way. I believe that's why the Buddha said that "seeing danger in the slightest fault"... Etc.
It is a very broad and delicate topic, and since we're talking about that which is the most subjective of all possible experiences (I.e. the mind itself), it's very difficult to talk about. I apologize if none of it makes sense or if it sounds like mystical blabber.
Right, good points. The question is whether the full and complete eradication of greed, hatred, and delusion are permanent.
Nirvana is something that grew in the telling so much so that it took on characteristics that contradict other teachings. Buddhists love lists and list are easily added on to. I think we have to take this seriously and think about what is the core and what was layered on to the teachings.
Yes I think that's a basic aspect of any historical development in religion: it's a fish-story, where the fish keeps getting bigger over time.
Let's ask another question: Is it possible to break a Buddha's Nirvana by sticking a sliver of attachment to him via innumerable prayers/devotions/calls for salvation and thus causing a Buddha to fall from Nirvana back into the cycle of Samsara? Forcing him to start the multi-lifetime endeavor of enlightenment all over again, simply because he didn't think that his followers could multiply to such massive numbers and their combined prayers, lamentations and calls for salvation (all aimed at him) could reach up so high until it pierced the boundary of his Nirvana, affected his soul and pulled him back into Samsara.
Well on a traditional viewpoint, this would be impossible. Attachment is personal; nobody else's actions can effect the Buddha's attachments or lack thereof. In order to be enlightened the Buddha has to be free from all attachments. Once attained, nirvana cannot be fallen away from.
Better to focus on liberation of 'Citta' or heart-mind by developing presence (let go of past and future), abandon wrong views/perception, thinking of greed/hate/delusion, cultivate ethics/intention/action of non-harm and kindness in body-mind-speech, loving-kindness (wholesome unbounded states of inclusion/friendliness/universal-mind), non-clinging awareness and insight into body, feelings, mind states and dharmas, five elements, stilling of all formations to go beyond the first 3 fetters of skeptical-doubt, self-view and rite-rituals - be a streamenterer (sotapanna)
True Susmita, better to focus on good practice than such questions as these. 🙂
In my twenties, I was doing neo-shamanic rituals and experimentaling with magic mushrooms.
I am an introvert and love reading. I am strongly bound to language. I believe idea "don't mistake my finger for the moon " alludes to the fact the all descriptions of Nirvana (and other subtle states of consciousness) are the finger.
Amongst the many states of consciousness I experienced were transfiguration and Nirvana.
My metaphor for these sorts of states of consciousness is that like orgasm, no matter how well you intellectually understand it, when you finally experience it you realize descriptions cannot capture the essence of it.
One of the interesting consequences of having a rational skeptical mind and having jumped into the abyss is that one one level I realize it all may be the manipulation of neurochemistry. Yet those experiences were profoundly experientially real much more so than daily reality.
I believe the greatest value to the psychedelic experience is that it typically stops the internal dialog and our consciousness is shown that daily awareness is just a fixation of consciousness.
I don't take my internal dialog and normal experience of reality to be real. I understand it's a amalgamation created by whatever I am.
My experiences have lead me to believe that Nirvana is an eternal ocean of consciousness, the ground of being. When we experience it, we are shifting our consciousness. The wave is feeling its union to the ocean.
Ultimately, it is inconceivable. All of our descriptions are fingers pointing to the moon.
The reason something beyond descriptions is worth caring about is because Nirvana is the most amazing thing humans can perceive.
Yes and even to say it's amazing is to say it's not entirely outside the realm of description.
Hello Doug. As you mentioned, people who have experienced enlightment or Nirvana, have difficulties to express this type of mystic and spiritual experience with speech. It's well explained with qualia. Just as it is difficult to explain the color red or the smell of roses. However as also explained in ancient texts, Nirvana is an experience with no return. It's not an cognitive or intellectual experience and it is different from morality. Compassion and kindness is just a natural process that comes after nirvana, when we experience suffering from ourself and others. Enlightment allows to see and feel all living and compassion come from it. Really it is not an intellectual process. And I do believe that it is permanent and it will forever change your relationship with your life.
Thanks for that Roger! Yes for sure it's not an intellectual process, and different from understanding morality.
11:00 The Nibbana is said to be out side of Samsara, of this world of 31 realms, out side of conditioned things (sankata), impermanent/inconstancy/subjected-to-be-destroyed/change-unpredictably/cannot-be-maintained-to-your-satisfactions ... (in brief, anicca) is inherited in sankata.
You get to Nibbana by obliterate all root causes for rebirth (lobha-greed, dosa-hatred, moha-delusion, so Nibbana was described as Lobhakhaya, Dosakhaya & Mohakhaya. Khaya means obliterate/destroy/uproot), uprooted all fetters bound us to Sansara (dasa samyojana), so Nibbana is asankata (unconditioned), so it's understandable that Nibbana can be permanent and exist, but not in this world.
According to Abhidhamma, there are 4 kind of ultimate realities:
1. Citta (sankata): Thoughts
2. Cetasika (sankata): Thought qualities or mental factors
3. Rupa (sankata): Matters, energies, fields, dhammaas, ...
4. Nibbana (asankata)
It is said in the early texts, particular in a sutta that describes Sati (I forgot which sutta), one of the foremost householders at the time of the Buddha, he who attained Anagami stage of awakening, after debate with Jainism, he stated he himself experiences Nirodha Samapatti state. Arahant (a perfected one, a fully awaken person) can hop into Nirodha Samapatti for upto 7 days, one literally experience Nibbana continuously for oneself. In this state, all thoughts, feelings and perceptions stop.
If you find anything contradict to Buddha Dhamma please correct me I will happy to learn more. And if my answer above did change your perspective on Nibbana, then please let me know too.
I read about the explanation on sankata things on this post: puredhamma.net/living-dhamma/rupa-aggregate/what-are-rupa-dhamma-are-rupa-too/
It seems to me that Nirvana can't be permanent because the buddha continued to meditate. Maybe he never left the Nirvanic state because he maintained it but that implies that it must be maintained and therefore can cease. Also I don't see how if everything compounded eventually breaks down and each human (Gautama too) is compounded then how can anything associated with a compounded thing not itself be compounded or otherwise dependent and subject to breakdown. I wonder as well if nirvana is meant to be understood as something which exists ready to be discovered, like electricity or groundwater, or is a state that the mind/body can be in and therefore a potential, a possibility but which is made by the individual from the material at hand to the subject, like using electricity or drinking groundwater to satisfy thirst. Does this make any sense?
Maybe so Michael, I guess it depends what we consider awakening to be. If it’s the end of greed, hatred, and ignorance it might still be that the Buddha would find a “pleasant abiding” in meditation without it making any further difference to greed, hatred, or ignorance in him. But it might also be that awakening isn’t as perfect as the early texts claim.
Its permanent. I dont meditate anymore. But I achieved enlightenment through meditation.
For me the goal is to see reality, truth, for what it actually is and when we see the truth of how reality really works and what it really is at that point all selfish desire as well as the fear of death are extinguished and that person is free and has crossed over to the other side of the river and the way to do that is by practicing the eight fold path and contemplating the four noble truths. The ultimate truth to realize is that all things are One and everything is whole and complete including ourselves just as it is in the moment. To quote James Allen all a man has to do is right himself to see that the universe is ordered right and complete. Coming out from under the delusion of the ego and seeing the truth is nirvana itself.
Yes, it's a tall order! Thanks Allen.
The audio and video seem to be totally out of sync!! This is the first time I noticed this on your channel. Is it only me?
That's weird, I'm not seeing it now, so maybe it was a temporary problem.
Hi, I’m a Christian that’s looking into other religions and I’ve come across Buddhism and I can’t help but to see that Buddhism is not that spiritual..Especially with Nirvana and the descriptions that come along with it such as decease of all sensations or The extinguishing of the flame.
Diving into a deeper I see it more like a shift in mental faculties priorities. So instead of operating in the mindset of fear..or mindfulness..or love, one will operate in the mindset of awareness. Kind of like a foggy window when you wipe in the middle you see a little bit of the picture but when it’s fully defog everything is clear and you’re no longer affected by the fog or another way to look at it, it’s like a person who puts on a VR (virtual reality) headset and plays as a character in the virtual world but what ever happens to the virtual character doesn’t affect you personally
Don’t get me wrong it doesn’t sound too bad however doesn’t sound too spiritual either. Just sounds like a person who operates their brain in just awareness the moment you make awareness the filter of all you’re thinking is one a person become completely detach from everything. I mean the buddha really live that life he didn’t return at all to his family, in return he escaped all forms suffering.
Granted that the implications of living in just awareness to have huge benefits just the mere fact that nothing can attach to you personally is something.
So please let me know is buddhism brain training or spiritual thank you
I'm not really sure what you mean by "spiritual", so I'm not sure how to answer your question. Usually inner practices to bring wisdom and peace are just spiritual practices.
Buddhism is actually very spiritual.
The goal is self-realisation and oneness through denial of attachments.
My experience called nirvana, stillness is permanent. Its 24/7 stillness since 2017 till this day. Guess its a lucky experience.
That's nice to hear!
Doug, I don't think there's any problem here. Why so ? Coz it doesn't seem too difficult for people to get Rid of Greed, Hatred and Ignorance Permanently. Enough practice can make us 'Profoundly Indifferent'. Once we have achieved Nirvana, we will continue to feel physical pain, hunger for survival etc. But, we will just stop being greedy, hateful and ignorant. I don't think that it's something 'Extremely' Difficult. Buddhist Monks often give me the Impression that many/some of them have probably achieved Enlightenment. If getting Rid of the 3 Poisons is all that needs to be done, how difficult can that be ? A few decades of constant practice should be fine, don't you think ? It certainly doesn't seem impossible.
Anyway, I have a Question. Are you sure that Nirvana is NOT associated with Transcendence ? If I am not mistaken, Hinduism makes such a claim doesn't it ? Is it something similar in Buddhism ? I mean I know that you mentioned in the video above that Nirvana is NOT something Magical or Supernatural. So, is it something Perfectly Naturalistic ?
Well it's a bit of a conundrum for me, but yes I think of it as something completely naturalistic: the drying up of greed, hatred, and delusion.
@@DougsDharma
Ok. Just One More Question, Doug. Do the Suttas themselves Imply something 'Perfectly Naturalistic' ? I mean, are there any Suttas, anywhere in the Pali Canon, that talk about anything Transcendent ? If Yes, have you Cherry Picked only those Suttas that give us Naturalistic Explanations/Definitions ? If No, then not a Problem at all !
@@DipayanPyne94 Of course there are many, many suttas that talk about speculative, what we would term supernatural, abilities. Some of those are associated with enlightenment as well, although enlightenment itself is defined only as the complete uprooting of the āsavas, which are sensuality, craving for existence, and ignorance.
Like a turtle unable to describe land to a fish, so is a normal human being the fish unable to comprehend what an enlightened being (turtle) is describing!
I was actually thinking about this topic pretty recently and I agree with you. I agree with most of Buddhist philosophy, but this is another area that I don't necessarily agree with. Most religions say that if you live a good life you're going to go to heaven. It seems to me like nirvana is basically heaven on earth. I personally think that heaven on earth impossible because of the external circumstances. I agree with the Buddha in that we can change our mental states and have a good outlook toward life, but being completely free from suffering just seems impossible to me. As I'm learning more and more about Buddhism I think I'm better off incorporating aspects of Buddhism into my daily life instead of actually trying to become a Buddhist. There are simply too many issues that I disagree with even though I agree with the majority of early Buddhist philosophy.
Thanks for your thoughts Afanasi. One shouldn't think of awakening as being completely free of suffering as in physical pain for example. It's freedom from dukkha which is the sense of not-rightness that we are so often burdened by.
Doug's Secular Dharma You're right. I meant to say free from dukkha. I think it's possible to achieve a state similar to nirvana temporarily, but I don't think it's possible to be completely free from dukkha unless the external circumstances are ideal or close to ideal. Even if the circumstances were ideal I still think it's impossible to achieve nirvana. If you put a person that has supposedly achieved nirvana in a difficult situation (let's say in the middle of a war) I don't think they would remain in that state of nirvana for very long. As you said in the video, both external and internal factors are constantly changing.
Maybe, maybe not. It may also depend on the person and the case. I don't know. What I do know though is that making the effort along the path is worthwhile, whether or not there is an end to it.
Doug's Secular Dharma I completely agree. I guess the point that I'm trying to make is that I don't think anything is permanent and that applies to mental states as well. Practicing can help us cope with difficult situations and I think it should be used as a tool in our daily lives, but I don't necessarily think there's an end to the path. That being said, I think practicing can change our outlook toward life and having a different outlook can be permanent in some cases. I wouldn't necessarily consider that nirvana though. That's just my opinion. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer to topics like these.
Yup, I think we can drive ourselves crazy trying to answer these questions. Better to meditate! 😄
but aren't the four noble truths taught as "pointers"? Not truth with a capital "T". Is it possible to give pointers to lead someone into experiencing the indescribable? I would like to think so.
Well they are described in the early texts as truths. That said, there are going to be aspects of every experience that are "indescribable' in the sense that we cannot capture the entirety of that experience in a description. That doesn't however mean that they are *entirely* beyond description. Indeed, as I say the Buddha did describe awakening in a number of ways.
Incredible effort a difficult subject it has to be realized
Quite so Alfred! 👍
In the Canon its impossible to separate ideas of Nirvana from samsara and karma. There are whole circumstantial complexities of favorable and unfavorable rebirths that must be suffered. Even the “stream enterer” must go through 7 rebirths ( as I recall) to reach final liberation. Are there any Buddhist teachers around today who claim to be arahants? Stream enterer? By all means point me to her. What was literal at the time of the Buddha has become a kind of metaphor today.
I think Dan Ingram has called himself an arahant. Make of that what you will, I don't know him or his teachings. 🙂
Doug's Secular Dharma I didn’t know about him. Some interesting discussions on meditation boards about him and his teaching from 5 or six years ago. Some quite favorable. Mostly about his meditation methods. But calling oneself an arahant? Bhikkhu Bodhi was asked where are the arahants and he laughed and replied maybe living in a cave in Nepal.
Yes I think publicly calling oneself an arahant is a bit odd. I think FWIW it also runs afoul of one of the ancient monastic rules.
Doug's Secular On Ingram’s discussion board there is a guy who had an intense altered awareness/realization while on a Zen sesshin and and doesn’t that make him a “Stream Enterer”. An online interlocutor replies with a long citation from the Nikayas where the Buddha reprimands a bhikkhu for presumptiously claiming spiritual attainments.
But maybe Ingram’s meditation teacher in Burma spoke broken English and Ingram simply misunderstood him.
Q: If one is both an actor and spectator the state of Nirvana would be just being a spectator? or not even that? but simply Nothing, Empty, Zero, Perfect, Nada, non-Existent, OBLIVION??
Well, strictly speaking the state of nirvana is described as perfect bliss but not much more than that. I think it's best understood as the complete drying up of greed, hatred, and delusion.
Nice presentation on the subject.
We are already in Nirvana. But it is blurred with illusion. With our mistaken view of our mind that the "self" exists. All sentient beings are already in Nirvana not just human beings. To "realize " Nirvana is to really awaken to the truth with own insight that Nirvana is our True state of being. It is the foundation to our mind function. Weather our mind is forgetting or not Nirvana is always there. Our perceptions change. Our 5 " Skhandas" change but the state of Nirvana which is beyond mind and body functions is always present. It is perfect stilness. Now this stillness can be experienced for sure because we feel it. But this feeling can not be exactly described....
Thanks for your insights youlong1234!
Dear Doug, i can see where the paradox arises.
Let me try to clarify with what I've gained as knowledge and experience as a student practitioner of the SammaSamBuddha.
Nirvana is NOT a permanent place or heaven or location one gets to after attainment.
Nirvana is a state of mind, a supramundane statu of mind (as opposed to the unawakeneds mundane state of mind) which enables one to stop the propagation of the self in a space-time-causality continuum called existence thereby achieving a state of nonexistence which is nirvana.
The paradox is that experiential description of this supramundane status on its fullest is incomprehensible to the mundane mind. But is experienced beyond doubt by the awakened.
To start comprehension process we have to start with the first noble truth. Dukkha.
The businesses of living is about been subjected to dukkha.
What's dukkha... most call it suffering but it's a mistranslitteration of the intended true sense.
Let's first get rid of this translitteration error of calling dhukka suffering. Translate it in to dukkha been a "tedious and pointless futile exercise".
What is this business called living?
The bottom line of living is about a conscious being existing from moment to moment bombarded by sensory stimuli from the 6 senses (eyes, ears, nose, tongue, other tactile sensors and mind), to which the being has one of 3 possible reactions.
Neutral, in which case the corresponding reaction is likely nonwillful but autonomous according to the beings body physio-chemistry.
Pleasurable, in which case the being likes it and wilfully exerts effort to acquire this set of stimuli, sustaining it, and reacquiring it. This is called the greed reaction.
Displeasureable, in which case the being dislikes it and wilfully exerts effort to avoid this set of stimuli, escape it. This is called aversion reaction.
Every second the reality of life or existence is about reaction in one of the above ways. Nothing more nothing less.
No sensory stimuli is permanent. It arises, exists for a defined duration then attenuates. That's because the causality that gave rise to the conditions of stimuli itself is ever changing and impermanent. When the causality prevails the stimuli driven sensation comes in to being, when the causality attenuates so does the stimuli and sensation…
Life is about existence in the space-time-causality continuum called samsara… which is impermanent and always in a state of flux.
Another universal truth is that there are more displeasureable stimuli than pleasurable stimuli. At the very least, between one moment and the next, on the moments on either side of a pleasurable stimuli, before and after, are 2 displeasureable stimuli, before the effort put to acquire the pleasure stimuli, after the displeasure of the inevitability of the pleasure stimuli attenuating.
We're duped by the joy of the pleasure stimuli in to believing life is worth living for this pleasureable stimuli though the reality is that there's more displeasureable stimuli experienced by the being in the business of living.
This is the “viparinama dukkha” where at minimum you are in a cycle of displeasureable stimuli→Pleasurable stimuli→displeasureable stimuli. But there are also 8-12 types of dhukkas that crowd the cycle in reality.
These reaction propagation can be called mental volition samskara or naama.
What is samskara?
It is the combination of physical matter the body with consiousness that we call a living being. They coexist in a joint venture one feeding off the other from moment to moment.
The reality of physical matter proven by quantum physics, is that it's a propagating energy wave. There's nothing solid or permanent. A quanta arises, sustains, attenuates only to arise again. Uthpada thithi bhanga cycle according to the doctrine of the Buddha. Nothing solid but a propagating energy wave… one cycle of the wave is a creation of the immediate past cycle of the wave and the next cycle is a creation of the current cycle of this present moment. This happens every quantum second.
This is the impermanence of matter samskara ruupa.
Add now to this consiousness, which is fed by stimuli encountered by the physical body, born of physics/chemistry physical nature of the universe (or imagination of the mind which is still electrochemistry of the brain), to generate one of the 3 types of reactions…
Naama ruupa samskara operating in tandem reduces the definition of existence to nothing more than a propagation of the self in a space-time-causality continuum called existence or samsaara.
If one looks at the matter analytically, one awakens to the truth that existence is a futile purposeless businesses of a never-ending cyclic propagation the carrot being the statistically lesser number of aggregate pleasure stimuli overwhelmed equally statistically by a greater number of displeasureable stimuli, the latter camouflaged by the greed for the former.
Thus the two concepts converge to the absolute awakening to the truth, dukkha arya sathya, the first noble truth.
So given that space-time is a given, the Buddha hypothesized that stopping the propagation of the self in a space-time-causality continuum called existence must be taken up in the arena of causality creation.
Since causality is created by the desire aversion mind impetus the answer is to stop causality creation one must stop the greed aversion mind impetus.
If no new causality is created, and old causalities created in past is called up for executing in the present, it will be used up. Once all causalities are exhausted there's nothing more to fuel the propagation of the self in a space-time-causality continuum called existence, one then dies or respectfully called passing away, and when that occurs no next moment of existence is created. The propagation stops and one seizes to exist. Since there's nothing existing there's no self to feel dukkha.
Sopadisesa nibbana is when the mind is elevated to this supramundane status in which new causality is NOT created. It is devoid of the greed or aversion impetus. How such a mind works cannot be experienced by us with mundane minds... it can only be described which the wise will logically grasp.
Anupadisesa nirvana is what happens at the passing of one who has attained sopadisesa nibbana.
The trick then is to develop the mind to elevate it in to that supramundane status.
Achived by samatha-vipassana meditation techniques.
Fortunately there are 4 noble truth in all and there's a way out of this predicament… complete stoppage of the propagation of the self in a space-time-causality continuum called existence, a state of nonexistence called nirvana.
How to go about that is the rest of the doctrine of the Buddha… and is found in the abhidhamma pitaka of the suttra pitaka of the tripitaka.
Nirvana is simply the end of suffering. Do you feel unconditionally happy right now? Then you are in Nirvana (though it might end in 2 minutes) (Thank you for great videos!)
I also think we need two words:
Nirvana: The end of all suffering (you feel bloody awesome all the time)
Awakening: You've intellectually understood it.
Unfortunately these concepts get mixed together.
😄 Well maybe so, though to be fair, the Buddha doesn't seem to have felt bloody awesome all the time. He had illnesses, back pain, and went through the travails of aging. What we might say is that he approached all this with deep equanimity.
@@DougsDharma Good point (and thanks for the answer!). As for physical pain, I think that is outside the scope of the buddhist model (I might be wrong), but I'm sure that the back pain did not serve as spark to spiral him into all the associated mental pain that other people would be drawn into.
You are on to something my boy. Correct that nirvana and awakening need to be separate. Correct that unconditional happiness is a way to achieve nirvana, but nirvana itself isn't the unconditional happiness. Nirvana can be described. The first feeling of nirvana is to feel like a weight you never knew was on you has been taken off. Then you feel " true peace ". It's Hard to describe what " true peace " feels like. You have to experience " true peace " to understand it. Then it feels like your soul rises out of your body. ( No drugs needed )
@@NeedMorePlebs I agree with you. My definition of unconditional happiness is that 90% of that would be the lack of negative emotion, which brings you into a state you could call peace. The remaingin 10% are what you could call positive emotions such as excitement, elation, pleasure of eating, having sex, etc. But those, I would consider the icing on the cake part of nirvana. So since "life is suffering" the most important component of Nirvana is the satiation of suffering, the satiation of negative emotion, peace.
@@TheNalimo I was around 10 or 11. It was a warm summer day with a constant cool breeze. I had just gone outside and was waiting for my mom because we were going to the mall. The leaves on all the trees around me were rustling in the wind. I love that sound, so I closed my eyes and tilted my head toward the top of the trees to focus on it. Even though my eyes were closed, I could see the orange of my eyelids from the sun shining on me. In that moment, listening to the leaves with the warm sun and cool breeze on me, I felt happy. A smile came over my face. Then, with my eyes still closed, It felt like a large weight had been taken off of me. It was a weight I hadn't even known was there because it had been there my whole life since the day I was born. With the weight lifted, I felt what I called at the time "true peace". I later found out it is really called the meditative state of "nirvana". After the weight was gone, it felt like I was starting to slowly rise out of my body. My eyes were still closed, so I don't really know if I was. When I felt like my soul had risen about 2 feet out of my body, I got scared that I wouldn't be able to get back into my body. Suddenly, it felt like my soul quickly shot back down into my body. The difference between slowly rising and shooting back down was very noticeable. Then it was over and I opened my eyes. It all took place in about 6 seconds. I knew something rare had happend. Something only a handful of people can say they have experienced, like Buddhist masters . It was a completely unintentional fluke, and I knew I wouldn't be able to do it again. I didn't feel the "true peace" anymore, but I could remember it.
Thanks for sharing this video. As I understand attains nirvana is a yogic technique. In that state one transcends beyond all worldly attributes. Just like a person under the effect of drug moves into altered state of mind where he finds bliss all around. But this is not permanent unlike nirvana. In nirvana your personal consciousness merges with infinite consciousness and answer to every question become crystal clear. Only way to attend is meditation for years and years.
JAI BHIM 💙💙💙
NAMO BUDDHAY 😊🙏
There are some fishes. They are arguing about the turtle can walking on the shore and lays her eggs, because they don't believe it; however, tortoise understand about that.
Maybe so!
If Nirvana is ultimately the uncaused, this explains why it is the end if rebirth in samsara. Hence you aren’t reborn into nirvana, you simply extinguish. Is this the correct view?
No, this is one of the Buddha's famous "unanswered questions". See: ua-cam.com/video/59FXAW3AS2I/v-deo.html
Hi Doug I listened fairly closely , One feature you left out was the Buddha's statement that he has experienced "Nirvana", and at that time, the disciple was in the close presence of the Buddha. So the disciple had a chance to see the manifestation of the Buddha's Nirvana. The distinction of the transformation when all the Burdens have been laid down, ie Unbinding , you have skirted over this focus. Third I do not think you are accepting the Buddha's discernment of the difference between Greed ,hatred and ignorance in his teachings and biological transitory arising ,such as hunger, physiological responses , like coughing, tearing, sneezing sleeping, tiring etc. the third analytical shortcoming I observed is that there was probably are samsaric relationship of each metaphor Buddha used for the Inbound and a powerful fixation of one's constant conceptualization of our conditioned awareness. ie A sense of no place of peace ,,no release no Way to feel blissful ,no way to stop creating karma ,etc, Each term could have been directly used by Buddha to share the Medicine for that particular disease that the listener was experiencing. From the Buddha's use of the Dharma Nirvana was because he experienced this and vouched in his wisdom that aspiring to this would lead to complete permanent release from suffering. please look.ore.closely as to the way you investigate Dharmas. Good luck. Doug We can talk. anytime Can come visit you actual location and physically participate in Practice events? Let me know. Please correct. any shoddy analysis of your presentation, on my part, that you discover. Peace🙏🌈☸️ 💛
Thanks for your thoughts Pasquale.
I thought “indescribable” was like how cosmic horror writing will describe its monsters, except in a positive spin. Like “incomprehensible”. We can have feeling/vibe descriptions, but words fail.
Right, in that case it's kind of an intensifier. It doesn't literally mean "indescribable," it just means "very, very frightening" or so on.
One thought I think is worth discussing, is if one mistakes Nirvana for absorbtions of deep usually unconscious states, that happen before we dream, that we usually pass out before observing. There are about 11, the 12 links of dependant arising. 1 we observe is life, old age, sickness or death. While detachment and the 4 noble truths are more of a quick fix for the problem of dissatisfaction motivated actions, that was blocking the meditation from reaching a high enough concentration. I have absorbed some components, the result I see is a freedom of the mind. A quality of experience that is higher than real through altered states. Through these self made worlds, that are probably made from the same stuff as dreams, there can be no greed or anything like that. Everything is there. Not saying I am advanced, just sayin'
Hey Doug, our country is pure buddism. I would like to share the concept of nivara, it is like a two opposite side of coil. Normal world, it is kind of normal rebirth process , when person attain nivana, they reach other side. You can consider as Ignorance of this normal proces, Mean ignorance of existance ......
Nibbna is the opposite of the cycle, like Ignore Existance.
As per science, i may think that it exists as Engergy. ...... not as Physical body
You can say permanant in universe as energy, never rebirth in 31 places.
Yes, thanks Kay!
Nirvana is almost indescribable... I’ve been there and till this day I don’t know how I got there since I was so depressed . It is the most amazing sensation I’ve ever experienced in my entire life . It’s where you have no ego , you don’t feel the weight of your physical body just consciousness inside of a bigger consciousness … A ocean of pure consciousness. I noticed that it’s like carrying with all compassion the hole entire universe inside of you and at the same time being a very important part of an external universe . It’s the universe itself talking to you . I just don’t get it .. why such an ordinary person like me , in complete distress would experience something like this ?
I don't know Vicky. It's also good to keep in mind that the Buddha did say that people often mistook very powerful experiences for Nirvana, so one has to be careful in describing them. I can't say one way or the other.
Nirvana is beyond good or bad, bliss or suffering. When we 'see' our true selves or as Buddha put's it sometimes 'non-self' that is Nirvana
You are unfortunately deceived Vicky.
I had a similar experience brought about from a hallucinogenic drug. For a really long time I thought I'd experienced Nirvana. After learning more about the advanced meditative states attainable through Buddhism I realized what I'd experienced was infinite consciousness, a couple of steps away from Nirvana. With as profound as the experience was it is humbling to realize it wasn't Nirvana, that Nirvana is even more profound.
@@youlong1234 And that’s what I experienced… I knew I was pure conscientious energy . No ego at all . Just submerge into a ocean of other energies . An infinite state of bliss and happiness. It’s also called Turya .
I think nirvana is a separation from normal human psychology. A separation between the interprature and the instruments he uses to interpret. Theres no doubt that the brain directly affects you consciousness. But the real you is separate from that. Take pain for instance. You can measure pain by the firing of neurons in the brain and body, but pain itself, the resulting experience from those firings is entirely non tangible. Just like love is a result of chemicals floating around in the mind, but the experience of love has no physical grounding in reality. Theres a clear distinction between the physical processes that result in our experience and the experience itself. I have no idea if its possible to separate the two, but I'd it is id assume thats how nirvana would feel. A disconnect between the physical process and the resulting experience. If your experience is not reliant on the physical process than nothing can cause you displeasure. That could also explain reincarnation, I'm not saying its real, but if your experience is tied directly to physical process that would explain why you'd have to come back and if you severed that tie, why you wouldn't have to come back. Just fun to think about.
Yes the mind and consciousness are weird.
Maybe its not happening in this linear setting of mind we modern humans prefer nowadays. Maybe awakening and dementia do not exclude each other. From my former work in therapeutic settings I know a state of mind that is not reactive. When for example somebody is aggressive towards me and it is my job to help that person. In the professional context we are able to maintain a not attached state of mind for a certain time. Maybe an awakened person has a similar experience but massively expanded in her/his relationship with the entire world. And maybe the reason for permanence is similar to a situation of a newborn baby. It cannot change its mind and return to the womb.
Indian Philosophy would define Nirvana (of Sanskrit origin) as Sat Chit Ananda or pure inner happiness, ever new joy!
Yes this is a Hindu understanding of Moksha or liberation.
If you where enlightened and Alzheimer's arose in the body does that mean Alzheimer's arises in the mind?
Hmmm ... what do you think, Uilium?
Alzheimer's arose from the body, which in turn arose from birth. Birth, body, Alzheimer's (and other illnesses), eventual death. Samsara, a cyclic web of births and rebirths. Dependent origination. You should delve more into this topic.
I think one has to get to know a noble person to get the answer to the question about the permanence of Nibanna.
In my own terribly simplistic imaginative terms, I think the nirvana that's described as being attained through the process of living multiple lives until we finally get it right, is very similar to the Christian idea of heaven, I know there doesn't seem to be any specific emphasis on what or if...the concept of god in buddhism, but growing up with a Christian foundation (I'm more agnostic now) I think of nirvana as finally freeing ourselves from the cyclical pattern of rebirth and finding our true non dual nature/consciousness outside of the temporary nature of this universe, which my mind can only comprehend as god or heaven or whatever lol. Pure imaginative speculation though. Overall it seems like we as humans do better to focus on the here and now rather than get too specific on the speculation of heaven, god, or what the true state of nirvana actually is.
Yes, agreed. Plenty to deal with here and now! 😊
Enlightenment in this life is traditionally known as Nibbana with two aggregates remaining, as he also mentions in the video. The aggregates meaning Body and Mind. In other words, a human who is enlightened but is still living within the limits of Body and Mind. Now, the body will age and get ill, that we cannot do anything about. Even the buddha fell ill, he also had a constant stomach problem and aches. This due to years of fasting and a hard life as a forest yogi, one can assume. So body changes and ages even when enlightened.
How about the mind then? Well, the brain ages with the body, the five senses, the sense doors such as eyes, ears etc age too. You may not see and hear as well as when young. This happens to an enlightened human too. All that which is of body is also subject to change.
In the video he ask What about dementia and various mental illnesses then? Now that's where the enlightened being differs from a normal being.
First of all, in Buddhist thought consciousness is not generated by the brain. The mind and its psychological workings collaborates, or say is intermingled with body/brain. But is not from it. So in an enlightened being, or in fact someoine who has reached the first steps to enlightenment there cannot be any states of psychosis or other mental afflictions. No unwholesome thoughts can arise. Thoughts are a function of consciousness, they can be seen affecting the brain with a scanner, but that does not mean they are produced in it.
So... when an enlightened human then dies, it is called Nibbana with No aggregates remaining. That is, the body and mind is shed.
It is described in the suttas
Indeed it is Alfred! Thanks.🙂
Attained awakening in an arahant could be understood as permanent in the sense, that it is not possible anymore to generate greed hatred or ignorance. So maybe its meant as "irreversible".
Right, that's what comes across in the suttas.
But there is a problem nowadays because it's not easy to attain nirvana in this era but have a chance to attain nirvana but you have to detache from everything and should meditate and should do merits but everything based on the theory of course and effect
Yes, whatever niirvana is, it's not easy to attain.
faith in his teaching is the key to form a conviction
Yes, though I prefer the term "confidence" which is borne of personal experience rather than "faith". 🙂
The state doesn't change, just as once you've eaten an apple, you will always be able to recall the texture, flavor, etc. You can actually re-call and re-enter the state. It's my belief that only those who are in a closed group with others in the experience can retain the state actively and without interruption, however, as operating in the material world, with a body, forced you to create a locus (ego) from which to perform simple duties such as feeding your body. If you stayed completely true to the state, you'd just be there and do nothing (not in the lazy way).
Well, according to the descriptions in the early texts the important point of it isn't so much the experience as the ending of greed, hatred, and ignorance. That is, if we have a great experience but that experience doesn't result in the ending of these three fires, we haven't truly become enlightened.
@@DougsDharma Even better is if you weren't experiencing those states to begin with. But that *might* be from having worked those things out in a past life, or several (and I know we don't go to this place on your channel, so that's all I'll say on that). Thank you for your deep and wise insight.
I've been disgusted for a long time. Disgusted with my desires and attachments. Disgusted with my own ego. Disgusted with the desires and egos of others, and the weakness of humanity. Is the destruction of pleasure and ego the way?
It’s sounding like you’re describing intense ill will, which under a Buddhist understanding is not a skillful mind state, though it can motivate action. The aim of Buddhist practice isn’t to destroy pleasure or the ego, rather it is to destroy craving and clinging, which are the roots of dukkha. That also involves destroying aversion, anger, and hatred, which are the flip side of craving.
Another term often used in the suttas instead of nibbana is "unbinding". That is the key word to actually experience the nibbanic state. When witnessing is gone, reality is untwisted, unbound, such that there is no one sense of reality but rather every energy flow knows itself without a central or background awareness.
There is a spectrum of nibbana. You can experience a little bit right now. With more meditation you can experience it more deeply, and at parinibbana it is complete unbinding.
More info and demo at already-perfect.life (or youtube search "your fingers are already enlightened")
So I am thinking about wether or not buddhism is real (I am currently a agnostic.) I used the one rule that every philosopher agrees upon "you should try to disprove something, not prove it." So I watched a video of a Christian saying that Buddhism is false beacause its endgoal is to die. I then watched a video of a monk saying thats exactly what Nirvana is, so I came up with the conclusion that since Nirvana's purpose is to die Nirvana cant be real or buddhism isnt a good way to live and therefore hell must also be fake. I then watched this video and I added that religion isnt a science and it can be thought of in many diffrent ways. I proceeded to think about the topic and I realized hell can be real beacause my earlier point was only likley to happen, not sure to be true (I frogot the term for this.) I then thought of a point that might prove Atheism, Atheism only belives things that can be explained via science, science can also change depending on new things that we learn so if humans can figure out a religion that cant be proved wrong it would become science, therefore Atheism, but atheism is the belife in no god so would it be just science and not atheism? I have apparently spent hours on this topic today, overthinking like a true philosopher! So in conclusion, tomorrow I will try to dissprove the atheist theory. And the day after I will countinue to ask what is nirvana. Thank you, if not for this video I would think Nirvana isnt a good goal, now I know this is not garunteed.
You're very welcome Mr Uwuowo!
Yep... I see why one fears it. Nirvana is quite a 'negative' term for normal people like us - people who haven't yet fully understand it. Nirvana is like jumping into a bottomless pit.
BUT, When one finally understands/realizes their true nature, there's no more question..only silence.
Nirvana or Nibbana, the consensus seems to be that it is a cessation experience. The closest analogy is like a computer rebooting, it’s a cessation of consciousness, perception and feeling. You only know it when you come out of it as you are not there when you are in it.
Right, it's not an experience of anything. But at the same time it has a residue in the enlightened mind.
If its good for you then it should be interesting dnt worry if it's good for others, once it's good for you it'll be good for others,wait to u get their brp.
That's right Rouse, thanks.
Whatever we can conceptualize is a thing. Even in Advaita Vedanta (AV), if I can point to something and describe it, then it is not real. As per AV also reality is not a thing, nor is it nothing. The closest words can describe reality as per AV is sat, chit , ananda but in Upanishads also reality is said to be indescribable (Mandukya, 7th mantra is extremely potent). Words are always limiting, silence is the best answer. Agree, that to teach you have to use words but realization is beyond mind and words.
Yes this is a central point of Advaita Vedanta.
@@DougsDharma thanks. It must be clear that I am an Advaitin and so the question might be what I am doing on a Buddhist site. Even though I am Advaitin I have high reverence for Buddhist teachers. I am mostly interested in the logic with which Buddhist dismantle this creation. For e.g. I apply chariot analogy to dismantle the ego the knower of Advaita Vedanta (AV). Nagarjuna is simply brilliant with his logic and when I read Saraha his teacher I can see advaitic teachings in his poems. We advaitins unfairly call the Buddhist nihilist, whereas Buddhist in the same way might misunderstand us Advaitins as considering the knower or the ego as the Self. One thing I am sure whatever the differences in the philosophy, the liberation cannot be different. What Buddhist call Nirvana we call Moksha. In AV all that we experience is unreal and the substratum is Brahman which is none other than our true nature (non dual, eternal, existence, bliss, pure awareness, indescribable, incomprehensible, free from any relation, unattached and so on). Creation is Brahman perceived wrongly. Rope perceived wrongly as a snake, but there is no snake. Rope alone is. Brahman alone is. I had a specific question. I know as per the middle way the reality is dependent origination. Is this dependent origination the ultimate reality? What is the relationship between Nirvana and dependent origination? Is it that Nirvana reveals the dependent origination or that Nirvana is beyond dependent origination.
I agree.
Nirvana with remainder and Nirvana without remainder was a mystery to me until I investigated the nature of quantum physics and the observation principle of reality. Simply put, my thoughts are that Nirvana with remainder is a blissful state of being in the present moment and Nirvana without remainder is a total extinguishing of all phenomena, or hyperspace for a lack of a better English word. A few scientists are even alluding to something unimaginable ...this universe came from nothing, with mathematics to back up this view.
Thanks for your thoughts Mael-Strom.
It is not through argument, but by example that the path to nirvana is shown to others. Nirvana has both an explainable and an unexplainable part, co-existing as a whole, undivided, one which is two which is three which is all things.
It could very well be!
My Friend,
Words are like given names, used to describe for what is pleasing or unpleasing to the mind, used to describe for what can be percieved or can not be percieved by the mind. It is like an illusion, made by the mind.
"Nirvana" is also like a given name, it exist and do not exist at the same time (it is the way it is), a wise once said it is like knowing there is an apple inside your throat yet you can not throw up.
Reflect on this my friend:
There is awakening and non awakening, yet by knowing The Truth, there is no more awakening and non awakening to be seen, they are the way they are.
I hope that this will Help you with your Journey.
Thanks for your observations chester.
Yes, we should stop here, Nivarana is just so-called name,,,but it is just a state we called it or The Lord Buddha just named it as if he could once give the explanation to human us, we can't understand or comprehend its meaning.
Everything is existence of course is not permanent :) as I thought if you asked me , I will be quiet and will not tallk anything about it!
Honestly Doug, if you talk more about it without people have some sort of understanding about Buddha's Dharma like me , they would thought you (me) are mental people ,,,and things we would talk about it they would not be able to digest it even us we know what it is like but truly indescribable and/or describe about it because it is formless and whether it is existed or non-exist only one exercise, practice could tell self about it without telling other what it's like ...just like you describe what the taste of sugar is for the people who NEVER taste the sugar, do you think they will take it for what you described sugar's sweetness to them :)
Yes, it’s best not to worry oneself too much about such things, and just practice. 🙂
Nirvana is indescribable. Mentally it's pure, physically it's like feeling every vibration of the universe throughout your entire body in every finger and toe.
Nirvana means having no self anymore. So I don't think we can describe it that easily as only the great Arahats will get to experience the real Nibbana 🙏
Unfortunately no a BIG no
@@babyme8886 There's still the body
There is no feeling
Sounds like you experienced a vibrational state
I believe Nirvana is the state of "I", the highest existence realized after ego death, the merging of all their is. The peace, completeness, and joy that comes with it is indescribable
Nah, that's not what it is.
Probably, the complete passion for all creation.