Elegoo Heater Causing Massive layer lines
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- Опубліковано 26 лис 2024
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I have the same experience with a brand new Saturn Ultra 4 I just got. Running the heater while printing is disastrous-so many printing layers. I have a cold studio and my solution now is to run the elegoo heater for around 45minutes, then turn it off and start printing. It looks like the machine is generating sufficient heat while printing to produce a nice print. Not sure what designers of this heater were thinking...
Woooow !! This is some great insight !!
Oof. I'll stick to my setup. Heater + thermostatic power switch in an enclosure. Quiet as a mouse, fast and it measures the actual resin temp since it uses a thermocouple.
@@SpentAmbitionDrain I've tested many options of heaters out there. If you have a set-up you like. Send me a PM with it.
@@J3DTech Away from home for a bit. If I remember when back I will send you a pic.
I got one of those cheap 'desk heaters' and have it linked to a thermo switch. It's worked great for two years but since it's based on warming the ambient air temperature and not the vat it does take a little while to heat up.
I'm having the same issues with this heater and I'm 100% sure it's because it uses an on/off thermostat, which results in the temperature slowly increasing and decreasing over time as the heater switches on and off.
With my previous printer I experimented a bit with heaters. First thing I tried was basically the same as this: a heater with fan and on/off thermostat. This gave me the exact same issues. I did some tests, and calculated that the banding period exactly coincided with the heater on/off period.
I then replaced the on/off thermostat with a PID thermostat and the issue was gone (a PID thermostat keeps the heater at a constant temperature and changes heater power to adjust the temperature instead of simply switching the heater on or off).
My advise to anyone is to avoid this heater. I'm very disappointed that Elegoo didn't create a better heater. I'll be returning mine and switching to a PID controlled heater.
@@Craven112 Yes that's 100% why I have collected more data since this.
@@AleisterFuchs The M7 is a good printer
@@AleisterFuchs Ah the Mars is small so your options are limited. I would go with a thermal vat band
@@AleisterFuchs This particular issue is caused by the heater running the without the heater and with the heater test validated that
@@AleisterFuchs Gotcha, I saw some marketing from them on the S4U, not sure about the Mars5U but it it can go on the S4U then I would think you're good to go.
Hmm. I post on elegoo server to warn others. But ive seen others use it with no problem. Did you install the unit on the enclosure cover? In any way very useful!
@@pingbot261 I installed it according to the institutions.
This part is designed to highlight issues. I've seen others that use the heater as well. However it's not as noticeable.
I even spotted the same issue on Uncle Jesse's new video where he highlighted the heater itself.
If you look at the back of his red print you will see it. It almost looked like stepping but not quite.
I have the exact same problem on my Saturn 4 Ultra and the Elegoo mini heater. I wish I could post pictures here, but, you better believe it, the mini heater IS THE CULPRIT!
@@gonzalokrosnyak245 oh yeah and one don't a lot more research since this video. I now have the data to validate.
@@J3DTech So, do you have an alternative recommendation? Do all mini heaters out there do the same? I already returned the Elegoo heater, but I need to replace it with something. Thank you so much! (I have a Saturn 4 Ultra with the new tilt vat, so heater belts might not be an option for me.)
@@gonzalokrosnyak245 Nope only this one.
I recommend a thermal Vat band or the Chitubox heater works as well
I use an egg incubator but I need to design a different chassis to work with this printer.
@@J3DTech Thank you so much!
@@gonzalokrosnyak245 Anytime!
Good find! 💪
for S4U should I get a Chitu blower heater, a fermentation belt, both?
@@bubaart I don't recommend the belt. They are hard to deal with. The A thermal vat band is better. The Chitubox box one works well but it's also a bit clunky.
@ okay thanks for the advice. Elegoo emailed saying “As for the old version of the heating module, it indeed caused layer lines, but please rest assured that we have resolved this issue. If the heater you're encountering still causes layer lines, we will help resolve it for you.”
Dang.... this took some work to thoroughly test. Thank you.
@@JerryBWagoner Not finish yet. Making a custom housing to see if I can get it to work.
@@J3DTech Any chance that removing the filter causes the fan to relax a bit, or would that just make the problem worse by increasing airflow if the fan doesn't detect less resistance?
I picked one of these up a few weeks ago in preparation for setting up my new Saturn 4 Ultra at the place I'm moving into, now I'm a little nervous! Maybe I'll have to just use it for ~20-30m before a print to get everything nice and toasty and cross my fingers that the exothermic reaction keeps things warm after that. Or just move it to inside of my enclosure if it fits (I was originally going to heat the enclosure alone but it only barely fits the printer on the both the X and Y axis when zipped up).
Will keep my peepers peeled for any updates.
@@Spadie I removed the filter and no difference.
I'm now thinking it has to do with the build plate getting warm and shifting. But I have more testing to do.
@@J3DTech Any results?
@@kiddervish2 Yes, the root cause is how how much heat the heater dumps into the chamber at a time and then turns off.
What's actually happening is that the heat is not warming up the resin, but the print itself hanging off of the build plate causing it to warp.
I've been using the chinese one with similar design for around a year without any issues (2 printers and 5 diff resins), so for me chamber heaters are not the problem. Maybe airflow is to high with this one?
@@mustachito6 I've also been using a chamber heater with no issues. I think the issue here is the forced air due to it also having the filter.
@@J3DTech The one I have also came with carbon filters, but way smaller than Elegoo's. I don't think they do much in respect to filtering fumes, but neither do they add much air resistance.
@@mustachito6 They don't do anything at all, best to just remove it.
It's the airflow and probably thermistor placement in the casing of the heater. Can't tell if the exhaust port on the S4U was opened, but it would also be suspect if it is necessary to remove the blocker plate to install. They went overboard with a 10k RPM fan to get static pressure, which is going to be quite a bit more vibration than the typical 1500-3000 RPM stuff.
@@aaronb1138 I've just started a new print with some mods.
I created a hood so the exhaust will be above the build plate and 2 walls to move the intake away from the VAT. We will see
it's not rocket science. The heater turns on and blows hotter than the set temperature and the z axis expands, the heater turns off the z axis retracts. It shows in the prints. If you want to get rid of thermal cycling use a PID control because they self learn exactly how much heat to blow instead of blasting extra hot air till a limit is reached.
@@karlh6692 Yeah maybe but the internal chamber heat is the same during the print. I have 2 places I'm recording temps at the tip of the hood and on the VAT. They are constant.
I just made a hood for the heater that dumps the heat at the very top of the printer away from the print and rails and the issue is still there.
Now I use chamber heaters on all my printers. This is the only one that does this.
@@J3DTech Try putting a dial indicator with a steel stand on the front face of the rails high up. You should be able to see the aluminium z axis extrusion high expansion rate fight against the steal rails low expansion rate and bend the z axis forward and backwards. measure the output temp of the heater, they often blow close to 60c . it only takes a 5 degrees swing to show up in the prints.
Thermal expansion of the Z-axis would be a couple orders of magnitude less than the effects of vibration (10k rpm fan), air movement, and resin temperature shifts. At the airflow volume of the Elegoo heater, resin could literally be getting evaporative cooling on the surface while the heating element is warming up. Resin temperature changes will affect both viscosity, chemical kicking of the UV photo initiators, and layer adhesion much more so than temperature changes affect solid mechanical parts and tolerances.
That said, I suspect thermal changes to be of little consequence compared to the vibration and mechanical movement of resin and printer components due to fan speed and airflow characteristics.
@@aaronb1138 I run lots of vat heaters in all of my printers and this is so far the only one that's had an issue and it's actually the second least powerful vat heater I've ever used.
I'm monitoring the temperatures in the resin and in the chamber and they're pretty consistent about 1° C change from start to finish over a 6 hour print.
I've even isolated the vibration away from the printer and I've piped the heat up so that it's coming out at the very top of the chamber.
I've even gone so far as to force the heater to only suck up air from below the vat line.
With all of these things done, the line still appear when the heater is on and do not appear when the heater is off.
I'm ordering hardware to securely Mount the build plate so that it can no longer move or shift and I'll run it again. If the issue is resolved, this would validate that it's the temperature changes in the build plate that is causing the spring still to expand just slightly enough while the heater is on to create the lines.
@@J3DTech I take it by "mount the build plate so that it can no longer move" means some form of fixed build plate. I am not seeing a clear scientific method here. The changes in length for the springs and build plate hardware are on the order of 0.000x mm for multi degree C changes. A fixed build plate may partially isolate some of this, but it more strongly isolates vibration and airflow, both as sound in air and mechanical chassis / hard component coupling.
The latter mechanical vibration coupling you have partially addressed. And you mention that the temperature changes are minimal as currently implemented. As such, I fail to see how the claim can be established that temperature changes in the build plate are the majority problem. If that is the case, then you could replicate the results more directly by heating the build plate by other controlled means without the airflow, sound, and vibration characteristics of Elegoo's heater.
I agree that Elegoo has blown it with this heater, and it is easy enough to advocate users go for a different vat / chamber heater altogether. I'm not seeing any printer integration or magic killer feature over other heaters, so efforts to make it work better seem a bit odd.
This is why i stick with a belt vat heater. Works better. PID tuned. Keeps it solid 30c all the time and doesnt affect the machine or internal air temp . Air to liquid convention is pretty crappy... heating the air is a pretty lousy way to warm liquid.
@@maxkool007 Elegoo said that they fixed the issue and are sending me a new heater board to fix the issue. We will see
@@J3DTech hopefully the new board fixes it, give us an update when you have it all tested.
@nickkaz6161 100% still waiting on it to show up.
I just ordered one of these from Amazon 👍
The heater?
@@J3DTech yes just before watching
So just tell me the solution? What are you suppose to even do?
@@reviewchan9806 Waiting on a new motherboard for the heater to see if this fixes it. If not it's simple use a different heater.
@@J3DTech I tried the anycubic heater and filter which blows hot air downwards. It does have full PID control so it doens't pulse the heater. Tried on a Saturn 4U. Seems to work fantastic. Granted, that machine doesn't even lift the build plate so YMMV
@reviewchan9806 I've not tested theirs but I've done most all others at this point. And yeah this is the only one that has this issue.
Since making this vid I've done a LOT more testing and discovered the why and how.
100% it's heating/cooling the print on the build plate causing it to warp.
Sooo... get the M7 Pro over the Saturn 4 Ultra then?
I'm still working on getting data for my big review, but so far the M7Pro is pretty good.
@@J3DTech the M7 Pro is currently €130 more expensive than the S4 Ultra - €150, if you order on the Elegoo website.
The long term viability of the M7 Pro vat heater might be a concern - if you leave resin in the vat long enough to split into components. I could imagine the white pigments to clog the heater pump.
A regular M7 without the vat with peristaltic pump is supposed to come.... but when ? IDK.
@@MayaTlab the heating function in general is great.
Especially when it gets colder here.
Some resins need a minimum temp of about 30C. That's easier to control when you heat the resin directly.
We just need a good way to clean the pump.
Not sure of the long term effects of IPA on the pump hose
Yikes, thats really bad.
hahaa soo.. it wasent what I though.. it was riples caused by the airflow.. hahaha ok..
@@MrPlamonerd I'm doing more testing on the heat but I don't think it's temps related unless the heater is effectively warping the build plate during printing.
How could engineers have designed such a piece of crap?
@@fluxcapacitor This also has the filter built into it. I'm thinking the fan RPM is so high because it doubles as a filtration.
The problem is that the filtration doesn't do anything. The heater is very important if it's built well. That's the only reason why I can think the RPM of the fan is set so high.