Windows or Mac? I Dislike One, But Hate The Other!
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2022
- A question that I often get asked online and in real life is "What would you choose between Windows and Mac?" Well, thankfully I have never had to make such a choice, but it's certainly possible that one day I might have to do so (maybe for a job). Which proprietary operating system would I choose to run?
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Well, here, in Brazil, we have no choice. A Macbook cost the price of a car...
Preço de um Uno com escada em cima!
@@canal-do-pedro-paulo kkkk
Just one?
dang cars must be real cheap there
Same in México
Personally I will chose Windows over Mac any day for two reasons primarily:
1. More hardware choices without paying 'Apple' premium.
2. Much easier to reapir / upgrade.
and u don't get locked into the "i" software ecosystem.
google price of first apple computer =666.66 (yes it's real). 🤣🤣🤣
Build a Hackintosh lol
I tend to avoid anything not posix compliant as much as possible :D
@@kearfy you can have a POSIX shell on windows (WSL) also hackintosh on bare metal is probably going to die soon
Windows is the worst operating system, by far, for any sort of creative work. Also, you can easily get an m1 machine for under 800 dollars that will outperform pretty much anything in that price tier.
And, Asahi Linux is a thing, if you don’t want to immerse yourself in the “I” ecosystem.
Windows elitism is the funniest shit on earth to
me.
A Linux, Windows, and Mac user goes to the BAR and they had a very commanding conversation about the Terminal and the Command Prompt .
That's not what most of their user do.
@@sophustranquillitastv4468 (misses the joke completely 😆)
@@sophustranquillitastv4468 The Linux, Unix distributions and its derivatives uses the terminal (Xterm, alacrity, etc) and windows uses the command prompt. And they are all using command lines to make the operating do what it says (Hence the "Commanding" conversation)
Dad jokes are hit or miss, they're either really awful, or they're like your joke and really funny.
goes to the "BAR", funny, really funny🤣
Regardless of whether I'd agree with your opinions or not, I admire that you take ideas & principles seriously and live by them.
Linux is actually available as OEM on laptops via OEMs like System76 (my sister loves their laptops and that was her first exposure to Linux as an OEM OS). Now, while I would normally agree with MS as a very distant 2nd choice, it is getting closer and closer to how Apple is going and like you said, it's sold under the auspice of convenience or security is another way that they sell it. And really, that's how so many things that are sold, not just in computers. One gets something that most want and like, but it's bundled with something that most wouldn't want.
They don't sell System76 at Best Buy - that was the stipulation in his comment, "going to Best Buy..."
PS - I commented from my 2015 System76 laptop that's still going ;b So I am all about System76
But those machines are not available in most countries... sadly.
S76 is just a local company. It's not available globally.
@@JesseDavis For the most part (at least 51% of the time), that really is an artificial stipulation that isn't as applicable as it once was. Or even going with something along the lines of a Best Buy.
I hate Mac because it has become so hard to support as a software developer. You would need a Mac and a (paid) developer account to get a good experience to your users. That's insane.
I find that the word "hate" is an over-used word and implies that the thing being hated has some negative impact in the life of the person doing the hating - in which case, they should just deal with the problem once and for all.
I've been programming, building, repairing, installing and securing computers for 40 years now, never once in that time have I ever even considered owning an Apple device - there is no niche in my computing world that an Apple device needs to fill.
Therefore I consider Apple to be "irrelevant" in my universe - if others use and like them, including my own wife, then that's up to them. But I don't "hate" them.
@@terrydaktyllus1320 nice book bro but please just let people hate Apple and put your supiority chadness somewhere else 😘
@@MrDasfried I am not your "bro".
I don't take orders from strangers on the Internet.
I will write what I like when I like, I don't have to "tailor" my comments to meet the "editorial standards" of self-entitled brats like you. This is a public messaging forum, if you have a problem reading what others write then maybe stop being so "fragile" or go and take up some other hobby where you don't have to interact with others - go read a book or do some gardening.
I also stopped painting little faces around words that I write when I go to about age seven and first learned joined-up writing. Just saying.
You run along now, sonny. Mind how you go and stay away from sharp scissors.
Discussion closed.
@@MrDasfried Like you are currently doing, @Terry Daktyllus, was merely viewing his opinion.......... however, he managed this quite tacfully and; more importantly, in a considerably less dickish way that you spewed out.
Knobhead. Hope your next sh1te is a hedgehog!!
@@terrydaktyllus1320 He literally just said the negative impact in his life. Read a comment b4 writing an essay.
the "twice on Sunday" got me laughing real hard 🤣😂🤣
I mostly agree with the premise, meaning windows is lesser evil, and Mac is convenient, but very scary, however you go way overboard with your statements. First of all, you can have your music and stuff in all normal formats, and it can be loaded to an iphone or whatever else just fine. As for planned obsolescence - I've always heard people complain about it, but never actually witnessed it myself. I'm slowly moving away from this stuff, but I still have a 2015 ipad air 2, which is still up to date with the OS, and is not even much slower than when it was new. I also have an iphone 6s, which after the last software update is actually faster than it was before. Then I have a 2010 MB white, which after 12 years still works fine, I've even installed linux on it, so it's up to date. It also has easily accessible user replaceable battery, ram and hard drive. The new Macs - a different story. It's a total disaster. But please do not spread false information about apple products. We can hate them together, but we can also be accurate and give them credit when they deserve it, rare as it may be.
This is one issue I've had with DT over the last couple of years since I started using Linux. Most things in life are not completely black or white, but he tends to be overly dramatic with his opinions, and sometimes contradicts himself from one video to the next (see his video on Ubuntu 22.04 - he says it's their best release in years and praises the UI, yet in lots of other videos he talks about how much he hates the Gnome desktop). I'm guessing some of it is just theatrics for UA-cam, but it makes it hard to watch his more opinion-based videos. I still think he's great for showcasing an app or how to set up a window manager, but I've learned to take videos like this one with a big grain of salt.
Another problem Is that more windows laptops are also becoming non upgradable, including thinkpads.
Framework is the best thing I have ever seen! I hope framework ship to my country someday :(
@@bigpod cheaper upfront sure, I think the biggest issue is people either don't care to or don't want to think long term on purchases. While I am curious as to what laptop you are referring to that gets 5000MT/s, and if its DDR4, even with something like 3200MT/s you likely wont be constrained much by RAM speeds on a laptop. For things like drives being soldered in, I highly doubt any soldered drive is going to perform notably better than NVMe drives. Framework has shown that it is absolutely possible to make these things happen in a thin laptop, it's not the cheapest option out there, especially for a laptop that doesn't have a dedicated GPU, but if your mobile computing requirements don't include one of those, Framework seems like the best option lately.
@@bigpod "throwing away" why would someone throw away a perfectly functioning logic board? even if they have upgraded that logic board can be used for plenty of other purposes (there's already tons of videos on how to do exactly that), and if the owner of that board doesn't want to do it themselves, they can likely sell it to someone who will.
Besides, it's not just upgrading, its repairing. How many other laptops go out of their way to make it as easy as possible to fix their product, and make the information to do so readily available for no charge? DT mentioned in the video the insane repair cost on Apple items. Framework has many more repairs that can be done by the average individual (not even just IT focused people) than any other laptop brand.
with the fast growing of cloud computing, the modularity is something that the average' s joes doesnt need and that is pretty scary. at least we always are going to have the possibility of a desktop PC
@@bigpodoh am I supposed to believe that laptop manufacturers have a 5 year warranty with system purchases standard? between that and the 5000MT/s claim you are sounding more and more like just another troll.
@@bigpod I'm still not sure what you are saying your laptop has, that speed would be decent for DDR4, pretty bad for DDR5, but also not unattainable on LPDDR4 DIMMS.
I don't believe as many people buy those warranties as you may think. Many will just say "nah, I'll save the 100 and just be careful with it" and maybe something happens to it maybe something doesn't. As much as I am for getting devices repaired, every company and every location can have creeps, so for simple repairs like a screen replacement, or a keyboard replacement, or whatever, it makes perfect sense to just do it yourself, especially if you have a laptop that makes it as easy as the framework ;)
I’m a person that fell into the Apple trap. I can say that now. I do regret it. I’m trying to wean myself off, but they make it so hard. I bought my current Macbook Pro in 2019, which cost a lot, so I need to make that last until at least 2025 now before I replace it. But I have promised myself I am not going to buy Apple again. I’m probably going to go back to ThinkPads, which I used prior to 2008. I use an iPhone XS Max which is 4 years old now? Not buying another iPhone. I did buy a Pixel 5 which I run CalyxOS on but I’ve struggled to switch full-time to it, due to the Apple lock-in. I am way happier in a Unix-like environment, although I do sadly need to use Windows for some work programs that will only run on Windows. I plan to run Linux and use KVM to run Windows. Probably have a separate partition for native Windows in case of work-related emergencies and problems with virtualization.
I wish I could get off of MacOS but I’ve tried every DAW and nothing comes close to Logic Pro. I love the workflow so much. I need a portable setup as well and there doesn’t seem to be a good way to hackintosh a laptop.
@@stpedro-ht9ng I totally feel this. Logic is the one and only program, I really miss. Even after years neither Ardour, (or Mixbus) nor Reaper nor Bitwig can replace this DAWs workflow and out of the box experience. But there are plenty cool plugins like LSP, x42 etc wich make it a little more easy. Even plugins via wine working fine (like the gorgeous klanghelm VSTs). But there are still things missing, but not enough, to ever make me switch back again to mac hardware.
@@stpedro-ht9ng generally then it is just a waiting game, or a very deep searching game, there is an option to photoshop, clip studio paint, is for windows and can run in Linux through proton or wine, I only came to know it recently, eventually you will find something like that the same way I found only office as a real Ms office replacement or the way I came to know the real alternative to photoshop, in both cases the option is better than the one used by most people nowdays, is just hard to get to know it.
You should also consider getting a framework laptop, since they're the most open and repairable laptop out there as far as I know.
@@miguelguthridge yep. Absolutely. The Framework is a definite contender.
Actually there is a middle ground: on many Linux distro installations you will be asked if you want to install proprietary drivers or give the FOSS ones a try. Usually I go with the first one, so most of the time I‘m not running a full open source system. I can live with that, tough. 😅
@@wojtek-33 I was pretty sure someone did point that out already. I read the first 10 or 20 comments, but there were just too many. Still, you‘ve got the option in Linux what makes the difference.
The reason why I switched from Windows wasn’t the proprietary problem, but the fact that every time when an update hit the system, I had basically no idea what was going on. Some stuff might be in patch notes, but obviously not all of it.
The only way to run a truly "Open Source" system is to stay away from drivers that require proprietary firmware blobs - it's not simply the drivers that are closed source, as in the case of NVIDIA graphics drivers. (No, I don't think any of my numerous Linux systems are fully Open Source because I think a lot of them require proprietary firmware for wi-fi interfaces, even if I not using the AMD kernel drivers that also need closed-source firmware.)
@@terrydaktyllus1320 That's not exactly a middle ground, if you install proprietary software that's not mostly FOSS or anything like that, it's just some free software with some proprietary software. That doesn't make the proprietary bits less proprietary, you still have just as few rights to modify or read it
@@somesalmon5694 I never said it was a "middle ground" and I personally am not interested in middle grounds. As much as possible, I avoid closed source software - I only use Linux and *BSD on my PC computers, and all of five of my Android devices run Lineage OS with absolutely no closed source apps on them.
I play a few older games on Linux and I use some graphics and wifi hardware that relies on proprietary firmware blobs, I think I still have two PCs with older NVIDIA cards and proprietary NVIDIA drivers in them. But that is the limit of closed source software that I use now.
@@terrydaktyllus1320 My apologies, I hadn't noticed that I tagged you in my reply. I was intending to reply to the original comment
I saw this answer coming from a mile away, but it's great to hear the arguments.
Hey DT: In Media School, they said something profound that stuck with me. IF there is a Microphone in the room, assume it is ON.
I use all three. Linux primarily but I prefer MacOS for my laptop. Speaking from experience Apple is not as tied down as some say. Apple Music is proprietary the same way Spotify, Deezer, Tidal, and any other streaming service is. Music I have purchased from iTunes can be downloaded and brought elsewhere. MacOS has a decent amount of non-Apple software. In my experience the Open-Source or third party software I have used on MacOS is high quality. Going even further into user experience Apple’s UX guidelines are strict but it provides a consistent experience throughout. Mac apps have a uniform look and they share similar behaviour. Gestures have been in MacOS for years. They have a global menu. It is super simple to create keyboard shortcuts for any action in any app. Powerful apps like Automator come installed OOTB.
On a hardware perspective I mean…with the exception of cost it is difficult to compare Macs with similar Windows machines. I paid a lot for my M1 MacBook Pro. But that laptop is fast, efficient, has great battery life, and top notch build quality. I can still use Linux in a VM as well for any needs I may have that require Linux tools. Windows is basically spyware and I try to avoid it whenever I can. Windows also is just not there yet in terms of supporting ARM. Apple is leading the consumer space in actually performant ARM SOCs.
Finally, Linux laptop manufacturers are often not a good value. System 76 is really only good if you live in the US. Here in Canada I would be paying nearly MacBook Pro money for a Lemur 14 with import fees. Starlabs is making custom chassis but they are expensive and for the money spent you could buy a MacBook Air for superior…well…almost everything. Tuxedo and Slimbook are primarily based in the EU but they also share issues with System 76 in that the hardware is decent but the cost is high for what you get.
exactly the same reasons for which i bought a m1 macbook and not some linux laptop
@@kreavitawastaken only thing annoying about Apple is lack of user-repairs and upgrades. I was able to upgrade the storage on my previous 2015 MacBook Air but it required a proprietary drive and I paid nearly double the amount of a standard 512 NVME drive. Battery replacements appear to be pretty easy in the new MacBooks so that’s good for 2 years from now.
@@axonn101 yeah lack of upgradability is a tradeoff you have to be willing to make for that m1 efficiency and small form factor, i mean the RAM sits right next to the cpu, allowing for insanely fast transfer speeds at low energy consumption.
I dont really get why they solder the ssds tho, i hope there is more to it than saving space, maybe more performance and reliability
Play this on repeat every week or even single day! I could not agree more!
What type of microphone do you use? Sounds pretty good.
It's a shame the industry has settled on just those three choices of OS. There were *much* better options previously, but market forces strangled them out.
What was 'much' better than Linux?
Linux itself can't get completely finished and is segmented. How do you honestly feel more os's would help?
@@electricalstuff259 Amiga OS. BeOS. QNX, to name but a few...
@@captsploof I am saying, operating systems from the past which didn't make it were better, and it would have been better to have those operating systems as the defacto now, instead (alternative timeline and all that).
@@RockTo11 Solaris and BSD being viable options unlike now
Loved the talk DT!!
My only experience with macs was in university in the late 90s, we had power PCs that we used basically as featureless windows machines... It was annoying to have to remember to save our MS-office documents in the correct format if we needed to use the computer lab in my dept to work on assignments at the university. Around then the iMac G3 first came out and it looked cool and all but did nothing for me, especially for almost $2k (canadian dollars), but for decades I was always curious what it was like to use a mac.
Last year some relatives handed down their older imac to my parents (who always have tech questions for me and with mac OS I had no idea how to help them anymore). Well this summer I finally got my hands on my mom's macbook air and on some older imacs and I found myself quite surprised at the minimal amount of tech savvy needed to do anything on them, but also that they don't really have any complex features at all. The software either does the thing or it doesn't, and that has shaped the behavior of every apple user on the planet for the past 2+ decades.
I've always been a windows, android and now linux guy and have come to expect the software to do what I want it to, when it doesn't that is a problem that needs a solution, usually others have had the same problem and even though the solutions are often poor at least I know I'm on the right track towards finding eventual digital zen in how I interact with hardware.
Apple always loved making things more difficult. As a kid, my family had Macs while everyone else was using Windows 95 or Windows 98. It was annoying saving papers as RTFs. Vexxarr's Crash Different parody is painfully accurate, and I never did video editing on a Mac.
1:50 "both windows and mac are, in fact, proprietary, but there are levels of... what i consider... evil-"
i got a good chuckle out of this
well, kicking a cat is evil....but stuffing a cat in a bag and throwing it in the river is MORE evil... different levels of in-morality with no middle ground.
is there windows laptops with screens similar to macbook retina and which cost similar or less than macbooks? I couldn’t find any couple years ago.
Good points. I think I would go the same too. Have all 3 around technically if including an old Macbook Pro laptop I got used. Idk if the file systems all being different is just as bad between both. Been converting a lot of Windows drives over to ext4.
Seems that Linus Torvalds really likes ARM64 and has been looking for a laptop that can run Linux on ARM64 effectively. He's stated that Asahi Linux on Apple Silicon works very well today. Linus has used a MacBook Air with Asahi and took it on the road. He still comes back to a 32 core AMD Threadripper when he comes home. Asahi is improving continuously. This means as these Apple Silicon Macs age, they will be useful for Linux users without paying the Apple tax.
I agree with everything but one point:
iPhones and iPads last a very long time.
I had an iPhone SE in 2016-2019 and it is still running for someone else. With a version of iOS, that has been released last month. Yes it won’t get 16.0, but 6 years of full update support is not ephemeral at all.
when something that controls and tracks you lasts a really long time thats not a selling point
@@bigmikeobama5314 It doesn’t matter for the statement: The devices have planned obsolescence, you have to replace them within a year or two.
I think it's quite normal for a phone, isn't it?
@@longhoacaophuc8293 If you look at manufacturer guaranteed update support, Apple is the unicorn. 6 years of full update support is unique. Google guarantees 3 years of full support plus one year of security updates for the Pixel line. Samsung guarantees two years now, they used to guarantee none at all. Two years is the standard among Android handset manufacturers now.
Have to concur. My 2015 Macbook Pro (provided by my employer, used only for work) and iPhone 8 plus (hand-me-down from someone else) are both still going strong, not obsolete at all. With that said, I won't buy Apple on my own dime. I build and re-build and re-build my own desktop (I've never replaced the whole thing at once for almost 20 years now - though all the original parts are long gone) and run Linux (Arch & Mint at the moment). I also have a dual boot Linux/Windows laptop because you can't easily buy one without an operating system, and as long as I have the license, I might as well keep Windows installed just in case.
Obviously I'm not an ideological purist, these are tools to me, not tribal totems, but I prefer and choose Open over proprietary whenever feasible, and Apple pisses me off no end with their heavy handed attempts to steal ownership of my data.
Windows for gaming, Linux for flexibility + security and Mac for those who love being imprisoned.
windows for property. that's sad. if linux community was not hostile toward property S/W and property S/W was more willing to make linux porting product then we are not force to use windows.
Linux for gaming.
@@zinc6625 Yeah I agree.
I know there's a handful of games that people can't run, and so not everyone will be able to fully switch, but like the VAST majority of games work on Linux now.
I think the only game that I own that doesn't work on Linux is Rainbow 6's multiplayer. If you're a Rainbow 6 player, I get it; keep a Windows boot for that or something, but most people could switch with no problems.
@@JM-rt7vt no one swaps ram and ssd? Right, keep telling yourself that, shill.
@@MrjinZin0902 Proprietary softwares are poinsonous, we must create and support free alternatives for them. We should only use proprietary S/W when there's no alternative left.
Thanks for your opinion, I share it but I did not know how to say it. Thanks
As a developer I had issues with getting setup with docker on Mac and Windows and bought a Lenovo Legion with 32gigs of memory and it has been fantastic with Zorin OS. I can even run Affinity Photo and all my games. The only game I have had trouble with is New World as I haven't figured out the Anti-Cheat that I think Steam will be supporting soon.
Look at the protondb
Also, Microsoft contributes to open source much more than Apple. I love their fonts. I always copy the fonts folder from windows
so true.
Printers wouldn’t work as well on Linux if it wasn’t for apple they maintain CUPS
I remember watching Tron Legacy, and near the beginning there was a quote from the CEO with a developer something along the lines of the developer asking what was new in the big new expensive shiny version of their OS, and the CEO says "nothing, it just looks nicer" and read this was a dig at Apple. Today it's definitely true with Apple's iThis and iThat and Windows OSX with its newest GUI.
Windows or templeos?
templeOS is based
Definitely TempleOS.
@idk other way around
@idk One of the features I discovered while using TempleOS, and kind of love, is when I turn on CapsLock all of the special characters that are shifted from the numbers are typeable in one stroke. This was something I remember encountering years ago when I first used Linux and wish they'd left in as an option.
I switched from Windows to Mac when Vista launched. Then after 10 years of being a devoted Mac user, I decided I wanted to build my own PCs. Since I didn't want to install Windows, I started exploring Linux distros, and I currently switch back and forth between running Arch and Fedora (I'm using Arch right now). I have to use a Windows 10 laptop for work and I hate it. I've found that I still pretty much know my way around it after being away for so long, but I have issues with it that I just don't have to worry about on either Mac OR Linux, so if I had to pick between the two, I would choose Mac because of the ease of use. Although, I do agree with your assessments of both companies, and I'm gradually shifting away from the Microsoft and Apple ecosystems as much as I can.
Great video as always.
Well said. I used to have a Mac and an iPhone, and don't miss either of them.
I had a 2013 macbook which lasted ~ 3-4 years and only way to repair is replace the whole logic board, but the parts were no longer available when i asked about a repair (i know i never immediatey wanted a repair, so maybe a year or so later), and the logic boards on ebay are ~£250. Anyway, i began parting ways before the macbook died, replacing my phone and tablet, and testing out Ubuntu 14.04. I wasn't completely sold on Ubuntu, but i did run an ubuntu server after my desktop experience, and never looked back. From then onwards, I probably run linux 95% of the time, and only pop into windows every now and again for windows things. I think if you cant part with windows, a linux/windows mix is still the better option over mac.
Steve Jobs was a businessman. And a damn good businessman. That doesn't mean he was a good man, he was just good at making money. That's about it.
Back in the late 2000s I had one if those iPods.. About 2 weeks after it's warranty expired the home button failed because of some cheap glue Apple used to bond it in place.. It wasn't possible to open this device without cosmetically damaging the case, and gluing the home button switch was the only way to fix it.. Well I tried and I completely ruined the case trying to open this thing.. Man, what a piece of expensive junk that iPod was, rendered useless because of cheap glue.. I never bought another Apple product again and never will.
Great video!
Gated ecosystem aside, from a technical standpoint which would you choose? Do you feel that Mac OS is 'more secure' (whatever that means) than Windows? Or that it collects less data behind the scenes than Windows?
Both collect as much data as they can. Atleast you can strip those services in windows.
Yeah, but you'll never feel the warm glow of acceptance from the starbucks trendies.
I can't even wait until the end of the video. I just have to say that I wish we had better mobile options. Preach DT!
It was 3 days after purchasing my gaming windows laptop, I clean installed EndeavorOS. I now love my laptop. I use mac as Frontend Developer from office and recently when I started learning Hybrid mobile App development frameworks like Flutter, even in course instructors made me feel like I am not worthy of learning hybrid mobile app frameworks since I dont have macbook. I wonder if apple heard it 😂
Linux on gaming laptop is 🚀
bet your laptop is blazingly fast🔥
Half of frontend developers seem to use Mac for some reason.
@@4cps777 MacOS is pretty polished, though I'd still prefer OpenBSD for web dev.
I completely agree. If I was forced to use one or the other, Windows. Thankfully I won't ever have to, but yeah, Apple has gone more evil than Microsoft, and that's even with UEFI and TPM and all the other garbage they've got cooking. The one problem with this video is that I can only like it once. I clicked the button 5 times, but it still only added one like.
I own several computers at home, they all run Linux, including my NAS box. However, nothing can touch the screen/audio quality plus long lasting battery life without power degradation of an Apple Silicon laptop, nothing at all; so I went ahead and purchased a Mac Air with 16GB of ram and Im using to run Linux virtualized, barely touching Mac OS. Different strokes for different folks.
Last but not least, great video DT.
Microsoft is rapidly pushing towards the day that the windows core can no longer be removed from the bare metal. TPM requirements, and WSL integration are all stepping stones toward that Microsoft dream (i.e. agenda).
Yes… I think his opinion is based on dated info. Especially with the apple being a special club, Linux has its own club lol
@@got2liv4him To join the Apple Club requires a very big admission fee. To join the Linux Club is completely free.
@@terrydaktyllus1320 Apple is far cheaper than Linux if you consider your time a valuable resource.
@@XiaoxingHu I do consider my time a valuable resource and my Linux knowledge means I work in a well-paid Linux cyber-security job that lets me live a very comfortable lifestyle indeed.
Apple is not "cheaper" for someone who doesn't like "walled gardens" and is enough of an independent and critical-thinking computer user to not need his or her "backside wiped" by an evil corporation. If that describes you then good luck to you.
But thanks for asking.
@@terrydaktyllus1320 I am not talking about you, or me specifically. Of cause Linux (even desktop) exists for good reasons. But if you just use your computer as a tool to get things done, there are too many commercial apps (for any imaginable profession) that just work on windows/macOS. That is not the case on Linux. I am a software developer, and I have worked on numerous commercial/non-commercial desktop apps. There's not once that Linux support is on the priority list. 0%. Some of them support Linux just because we use cross-platform framework anyway, and it was close to 0 effort to support linux. So why not. That's the reality of the application market. It's like iPhone/Android vs. ubuntu touch but not as dramatic.
If I had to choose between Windows or Mac, I would not have a computer.
Ditto.
I agree as far as hardware goes, but you’re really not locked into any particular software on a Mac besides the operating system. I don’t use any Apple specific software on my Mac (and I have to use one for work - my personal computer runs Arch). To take your example, If I wanted to listen to my own music on my Mac, I could use Foobar or a variety of other options. Most of the software I use for work is open source and provided through brew…
If a Mac fulfilled all of your computing needs then why would you also own a Linux computer?
@@terrydaktyllus1320 As I said, the Mac is a work computer. Honestly, it’s more about personal preference than any real need when it comes to the personal computer. I enjoy the freedom that comes with Linux, and so that is what I use when I’m not working.
You're also not locked into the OS, I'm not sure where this psy-op is comig from but none of the Mac ISAs have ever had an issue running other OSes -- A/UX (68K), mkLinux (PowerPC), and Boot Camp (x86/amd64) were all Apple projects and they added disk image boot and unlocked the bootloader from the Ax processors for Mx.
As a graphic designer in the 90's my business began with Apple, however, over the years, the changes, the prices and the prima donna attitude drove me to completely switch to Windows 7 where I remained until a few years ago when I retired and switched to LinuxMint Elsie. Never been happier.
I always used to use Windows until I bought my M1 MacBook Air. I have to say it is a very nice piece of hardware (case, touchpad, keyboard, efficient SoC) which you can hardly find somewhere else. But it is infuriating how Apple manages their software. Example: I still can not change my mousewheel to scroll in the classic way while keeping my touchpad in its classic way. I have to install a seperate App to do that. Besides that I really enjoy the terminal and all the utilities. I recently installed Linux on my very old laptop. I just wish there was comparable hardware similar to Apple's M-processors
yep, the M1 macbooks are kinda double edged swords. They are some of the best pieces of hardware currently available for a reasonable price, but you have to get used to doing things "the apple way"
at least until asahi is daily driveable.
can't you install Linux on an M1 chip? I think so
Where can we get your Tshirt?
Preach brother.. preach. You and Louis Rossmann are a refreshing voice of reason
Great video! I think more and more people are realizing that Apple product are just a trap and many of them are switching to other brands. It honestly makes me sad when I see people that are stuck with apple and it's so difficult to even switch to a different device because it's nearly impossible to transfer your data out of an iphone.
I agree with most of what you've said DT, but I don't really think that planned obsolescence is a thing with Apple, I mean, it isn't worse than any other company. I've had several laptops from different companies and all of them started to have troubles around 3 years of use.
What Apple does is change very little things and make it "shiny", creating the illusion that they are presenting a huge change from their previous model.
From an electronics standpoint, it is definitely a thing with apple, they have made all the choices so the machine is incredible fragile and hard to repair, they put the data lines that go to the 1V the CPU uses alongside with the 20V power line, without ground between them, in connectors that are near the ventilation, a drop enters the machine and it can fry the CPU in the most avoidable way, that is how they make the hardware, a 1st year electronics engineer student can have that error, but they quickly learn that it is an error, and that is not only because of the danger if an accident happens, it is also because of data integrity, having the power line alongside data lines causes interference if there is no ground between them, so, it is a shitty product, not even cheap laptops have that problem, and they are supposed to be a premium brand in that area.
@@alenasenie6928 Wow, I didn’t know that. Thanks!
@@alenasenie6928 lol every Mac I’ve owned has lasted years longer than any windows laptop or desktop
A friend of mine had a 2010 iMac and it was a brick because there was no way to fix what was wrong with the GPU or at least that’s what all the professionals we found to take a look at it said. Apple just told him to buy a new one. If I had integrated graphics on a system, I could drop in new CPU or if it was the graphics card, I could buy a new one. I’ve never seen a machine from any other company who have Who have soldered all the parts to the motherboard. is preventing customers from purchasing replacement parts is not planned obsolescence then I don’t know what is
Great notes.
There is a FreeBSD project called RavynOS attempting to make an os that is compatible with macOS software and feels like macOS when used but is free and open sourced.
Ubuntu runs great on my 2015 MacBook Pro. I may try installing a different distro on it one day. I have Debian on my Dell desktop, and might try intalling that and seeing how it runs on the MacBook.
You run the same rigging as my Nephew.
I hope you're as happy as he is
I have two old Mac Pro machines, one 4,1 upgraded to 5,1, and a 1,1 upgraded to 2,1. East to do and parts were cheap. I have Win 10 Pro on the 2,1 (on one of the 4 drives) and it runs perfectly even though Apple crippled the EFI down to 32bit, but it loads Win 10. These machines are absolutely reliable, easy to repair and the parts are cheap and readily available on eBay. But here's the thing, I cannot find a way to install Linux on my Mac Pro 2,1 - haven't tried it on the 5,1. I've searched for a solution but so far nix. I bought my Mac Pros - even though they were old machines, because I wanted to try Apple, which I'm glad I did as I'm not a professional and for me it was a learning experience. The machines are so reliable and money is 'tight', so I can't switch back now - so a few years ago, I bought a Lenovo laptop and installed two Linux distros, Kali and Parrot OS, which I've now replaced with MX - and this is how I am making my transition to Linux. For me, at least, the Linux community represents the creativity and integrity that MS and Apple never did or ever could - not to mention the massive amounts of generosity behind their efforts. I want privacy, security and the peace of mind that comes with knowing, 'thank God', that we still have a 'third way' to chose - for a short while at least.
Amen! Preach it, brother!
I used to be an AppleFanBoi back in the day (going back to the ][e) but have seen the light of Linux/FOSS thanks to ppl like you.
Keep up the great work!
Nice analogy at the end! lol
I've never really bought into the apple ecosystem with computers for the very reasons you stated - over priced hardware, can't repair, can't upgrade, limited software. What I will give kudo's for is the way their thunderbolt ports work with audio processing which is much better than USB standards. Although these days with USB3.2 there's not much in it anymore.
I have used an iphone for quite a long time though - mainly because that's what work gave me at the time. And realistically with phones, the support is there that you're getting updates for years afterward. I was still using an iphone 8 - four models behind the latest and now 5 with iphone 14 just coming out. And, they are pretty easy to use.
But, now that works paying me to keep a phone, I've ditches iphone and gone android. It's been a bit of a shock changing over apps for android equivalents but it's getting there. There's also a lot better choices with apps I'm finding too.
i would go outside
Great, great answer. Same question is about if you have only 2 options for use browser which you choose: Microsoft Edge or Google Chrome?
I think your opinion on this question will be very interesting for the crowd too.
@lbialk Yes Firefox is open source and have different browser engine than chromium based browsers (such as Google Chrome, Microsoft Edge, Opera, Vivaldi, Brave,Yandex and etc.) but... First here I speek for propaeterry browsers and software. Second Microsoft Edge ang Chrome have different functionality. For example edge is way more customizable than chrome. Edge have different restricted and privacy browser modes and functionality too. And third I asked DT of these two, who thinks is more evil. Have a great day! ;) :)
@lbialk Sadly, without PWA support on Firefox, I had to choose between Brave & Vivaldi. I ultimately went with the latter not because it was FOSS (Vivaldi has a proprietary UI) but because Brave's crypto currency crap and I do like Vivaldi's UI.
GReat work thank yoU
Also: the real pioneer from Apple is Steve Wozniak, and he doesn't like what Apple is doing.
He's the one that did all the work while Jobs leeched off of him.
"If I have to choose between one evil or another, I'd rather not choose at all"
I agree with almost all of you said; only one thing I completely do not agree. As a software developer, I've used like 30-40 different laptops or desktops over the years. And one thing I'm definitely sure is that Apple hardware is not cheap and it lasts a lifetime. May be one can argue that Apple may not want you to use them over 2 years or so. But it is 100 percent usable and durable at least 5 years and the software support side is like that too.
Software support on macOS being time-limited at all is very odd in the wider landscape of personal computing. 5 years is very short life for a computer these days; many people could be served well by a machine that is 10 or 12 years old.
I stopped caring about apple when they said that there's no reason for a mouse to have more than one button. Since then, and for all the reasons DT mentioned, I'm glad I took the road less annoying.
Yeah honestly I have no idea how the hell anyone can get by with a one button mouse.
I have an old ipad mini. Mostly as a mousepad (it has a nice cover), sometimes for facetime to connect to my family.
Other than that, I can help friends who have Mac problems, sometimes, because it has BSD underneath.
I do have a windows license - dual boot on a linux box - so I can do the flight simulator. Once a year, if I can be bothered.
I have an obsolete old ipad mini (version 1 I believe) that was collecting dust for a few year as well. If you're into reading then I recommend using it for that. I recently started reading on it and it's the best reading experience I've ever had.
@@nourgaser6838 I have a kindle for that (plus actual books of course). I bought the ipad out of curiosity and a desire to hack it. But I barely use it, apart from the mousepad bit. But then 60% of my time using a computer is coding,
I've had it with Windowz! Required front camera. TPM and UEFI requirements and locks. Online accounts.
I love my Ipod shuffle and nano (the only things I own from Apple) but I really hated the bloat mess iTunes is, at least the Windows versions. Now that I use Linux I use GTKpod and yeah it's far from perfect but it's not connected to the internet and it doesn't take 5 minutes to open.
I think macOS is not that bad. I bought my macbook when i knew nothing about computers, so now i'm stuck with it and i found ways to make macOS really good. macOS is not nearly as closed as iOS, so i installed a tiling window manager and a panel on it and i use dmenu and rofi. I think apple is evil, but macOS is not that bad. I wish you could use and try to rice macOS and say what you think about it after ricing it...
Yep, Apple may be an evil company but MacOS is really not such a bad operating system. And I don't think Apple is as evil as Microsoft either
@@chambathinle Yeah... I also don't think dt used macOS in about 10 years. iTunes? The software is a BOUNS?
I like DT but he often just gets high and goes on a straw man ramble. I don’t think he has ever actually tried anything new in any serious capacity in like a decade or more.
Not that people can’t have their preferences, it just makes conversations like this totally useless because he has no idea what Mac and Windows are like right now.
Guessing you'd go with Windows because it's way easier and more safe to convert for Linux.
Using a mac is like trying to play a piano while wearing thick rubber gloves. It bends over backwards to try and insulate you from what's going on. As an appliance to run e.g. Photoshop and Illustrator, or Affinity, say, I prefer the experience over a Windows box. But the sheer number of 'Terminal would like to access your Documents' type stuff, the hoops you have to jump through to run a downloaded program like ffmpeg. Then there is the experience using something like iMovie or Garageband. It's kind of the difference between driving your own car and hiring a limo, driven by someone who seems hell-bent on telling you where you do and don't want to go. My only recent mac purchases are £180 refurb minimacs which are enough to run mac software without the ridiculous expense they usually run to.
That line at the end… lol.
It’s a shame there are no good Cad alternatives on Linux.
Indeed I must run windows for SOLIDWORKS only
virtual machine
@@bigmikeobama5314 performances will be insuffucient
The same for BIM
i thought cad can be run on the browser due to improvements in web assembly?
Never used a Mac. I know absolutely nothing about them. 30+ years of I.T. experience never exposed me to one. I think that says a lot. I have thought about installing MacOS in a VM to test it out, but I just don't see the need for it.
30 years, damn you got extremely lucky. My job forces me to use a mac... You have no idea how painful it is to use. And yea there is no point at all in running macos even in a vm, it is inferier to even windows
@@TerminalHeatSink I had a girlfriend who used a Macbook for her newspaper job. I never touched it. I treated it like it had cooties. I wouldn't even pick it up to move it off the dining room table. 🤣
@@act.13.41 yea that's the correct procedure when you find yourself in close proximity to apple products.
After pluging my work mac in the morning to an external monitor, keyboard and trackball, I disinfect my hands with isopropyl alcohol 😂
Same here. I never saw a Mac in person, let alone mess around with one.
Thank you for this video, for speaking your mind, for being an advocate of the truth, for having this channel, for doing what you do! Thank you for voicing out our opinion, proving that we do have the right to speak for ourselves, even if what we say is not something that they might like
I'm with you DT, I would buy a windows pc or lappy and then dual boot it with Linux. :)
I regret buying an iPhone. The level of restriction on iOS is unbelievable. In Android, I was able to just put a sound file on my phone and make that sound file my ringtone. It’s such a simple thing that I took it for granted.
You can’t do that in iOS. It’s impossible. The only thing I can think is that they actively decided not to give me, the user, that one simple option.
Is it a trivial thing to want? Yeah. But that one little thing applies to the entire device. When you buy an Apple device, *they decide how you use your device.*
Also there is no such thing as a File Manager on IOS. You can't compress, cut, paste, copy, edit, rename or anything. There's only a singular button in the middle of the screen for you to access iCloud. I spend most of my time in the File Manager on Android. It's the hub to everything on a smartphone.
Damn, I even coded apps and games from my own Android device using an Android IDE and a pixel art app, and needed to access the folder trees from my File Manager, make backups, etc.
I like both platforms for different reasons. I personally use an M1 Mac as my main computer because of reliability. I NEVER get kernel panics (equivalent to BSODs). I also love how it's just "plug and play"-I don't need drivers or any of that garbage, I can just hook something up and it works. For example, I'm a musician, and I do production sometimes, and I use Logic. I can, without ANY hassle, plug in a COMPLETELY NEW audio interface and/or MIDI controller and just select it from the menu-no drivers at all. I also like how my Mac syncs data (email, messages, contacts, and even apps) between my iPhone and iPad, and my other Macs.
Now, do I wish I had upgradability? Of course, but in the long run I could care less. I like PCs because they're user-upgradable and serviceable. You can get a lot more power for far less money. The other thing to consider is performance per watt. The M1 chip is about equivalent to a PC with a Xeon E5-2697 v2 and a Radeon 5700XT (in terms of video editing performance, NOT gaming). The most I've seen my M1 chip draw as PACKAGE POWER is 25 W at full load.
So anyway, I like both PCs and Macs, but I just have to go with the Mac on this one.
From now on, when someone asks me why do I hate Apple products and MacOS, I'll redirect them to watch this video, you couldn't explain my feelings better than this.
My dad is so locked in to Apple it is sad. The funny thing is is that he used to have a Windows PC so all his old drives are NTFS formatted so he needs me to help him backing up his old drives because he doesn't want to download extra software.
This is why I don't engage in company ecosytems anymore. A decade ago, for personal use, I would use Google Docs, Drive, Gmail, UA-cam, Translate, Chrome, Google search engine, and I'm sure that there are more services that I can't remember at the moment. Now I only use UA-cam, and the Gmail account remains solely for the UA-cam account, nothing more.
Nice thought behind the marketing.
So agree about chaise of hardware and more ability to customize the software, but I generally trust the (lack of) telemetry and phoning home more on macOS than Windows. Now I don’t have any dilutions that Apple could (and possibly does) do such things, but people are constantly finding instances of Microsoft doing those things, with fewer examples of Apple doing it, and Apple does usually at least tell you when and why it collects data for things.
I don’t “trust” either, but I’ve gotten the impression over the years that less of my usage and activity makes its way to Apple without my knowledge, and that I don’t have to disable a dozen services and processes just to stop it like I do with Windows.
Plus I don’t HAVE to sign into an Apple ID just to set up my computer…can’t say the same about a Microsoft Account anymore!
@Distro Tube This is 100% how I feel about Apple and the stance I predicted you'd have. Thank you for articulating these thoughts
There are several options available if you want to buy a Linux laptop. Some of them are quite high end too.
None of them are in stores, unless you count chrome os, also, those options are mostly only available in the US or part of Europe, I am yet to see one that is viable to buy from latinoamerica, getting a decent laptop or phone is already a pain in the ass, is much less viable to buy a Linux laptop here, reason why I won't have one for a long time, even when I want to.
@@alenasenie6928 It might depend on where in Latin America you are. Slimbook is made in Spain& I believe will ship to Mexico but Im not 100% sure on that.
Good video.
my gaming pc is windows but my daily driver is a macbook. pretty old one . i like both. for my sidejob as counselor i prefer using a mac. the wifi where i work is not compatible with mac for autologin stuff . making it very secure
I made up my mind decades ago to never own any apple device.
The great advantage of Apple in my life was when my wife switched from Windows to all Apple and I warned her beforehand that if any of that stuff goes faulty, I wouldn't be touching it for fear of voiding warranties - even though up to this day I've been building, repairing, programming and securing computers for 40 years now.
Now if she has a problem with an Apple device, she takes it to some kid in a blue t-shirt with a flicky haircut in the local Apple shop. I have to stay outside because, as a Linux user, my crossing the threshold into an Apple shop would be like Dracula stepping out of the darkness into broad daylight.
Agreed.
Sadly, at school I have to use an iPad. Also, their software isn't really good. They don't even have essential features like a reboot button or a button to close all open apps there.
I want to agree, but i feel that the current line up of M1 and M2 with Apple are a compelling offer.
M2 is unable to perform as expected even when compared to the claims on Apples website. Linus Tech Tips recently tested it against an Intel Core i9-13900K, and it couldn't keep up. Like many others, over the years, I have been convinced that Apple just charges for the name tag, with insufficient tangible benefits in the product itself, for the price.
It is a hard one, for one Mac has a good kernel, but it is extremely closed, even if they supported all hardware, on the other hand windows is extremely bad, but I can install anything that was developed for it, they have tried but they haven't yet make it so it is impossible to use a software. So, in openness, windows is less bad. It is really hard, BTW, I want a good arm laptop, but I don't want to use an apple computer (even when I can install Linux in it), any recommendations? My goals are to have a cheap fast machine, not necessarily that cheap, so, up to 500usd, although I would like a very cheap one to start understanding what can and can't be used, I can probably move the cheap one to a family member when I move to the not so cheap better option.
The choice is actually simple, if you use a program that’s only one 1 platform, chose that, pick that, if not, if you like the specific way that Apple does thingss, pick a Mac, if you like a bit more leeway, pick Windows
Another Windows advantage is the WSL, you can literally switch to Windows and stick to Linux at the same time
I find LSL (Linux Subsystem For Linux) is a better option because it cuts out an entirely unnecessary and bloated "middle-man".
@@terrydaktyllus1320 Could you provide some information about LSL? I haven’t heard about it. Can you run it on Windows? I mean, that was the whole point of my comment. Wouldn’t a LSL be the same as containers?
He is joking. He is basically saying "just use Linux". There is no LSL.
I use Debian as a work tool, but have encouraged my mum to use the Apple ecosystem, simply because it's so brilliantly integrated: Her phone syncs with her tablet & her laptop- with absolutely no intervention on her part whatsoever. You can achieve the same things using open source software, but it take a bit of digging.
And here lies the dilemma- she is an intelligent, principled & relatively computer savy person who learnt to use CAD software way back in the late 80's, when learning to use CAD software was hard (command line) work. Today Apple have a user facing presence in numerous stores around the world. Probably an unfair question, but would you advise her to do?
Although I agree with the overall point, iTunes doesn't lock you in with its music purchases. For the most part they are just DRM-free AAC files that you can move and use as you wish.
I wholeheartedly agree with DT here, plus there is one more aspect for me, namely that Windows is at least good for gaming. Linux gaming is good enough already that I haven't even bothered dual booting for years now, but yeah if I could only pick between Windows and Mac for home/entertainment use I'd pick Win just because of games alone, + everything DT mentioned. Now if it's for work I may think twice because I'm a developer and Mac has a posix shell, though I'm not sure how WSL influences that on Win.
But what I'd actually do if I was forced to choose between Win and Mac is just fire up a Linux VM inside whichever OS I got and call it a day lol. But really what kind of IT company wouldn't let their devs use Linux, I would not work at a place like that.
With the iTunes point. iTunes and Music will accept music from anywhere so you can use them, without ever giving a penny to Apple
They may want you to buy a new phone regularly, but if you don't want to then don't. That phone's going to be working fine for the next five to ten years. I have 10, 15+ year old Apple hardware that's working fine. They tend not to die for a long time. As for repairs, your mileage may vary. I've had some Apple gear that's had zero problems, other stuff they've repaired. More than I can say for what Huawei and Google said for the Nexus 6P. They said you're on your own/go to the other guy
Hackintosh, those were fun years while they lasted. But with Apple's in-house developed M1 and M2 custom silicon the era of hackintoshes is over now.
I would use MacOS personally you can get Yabai which gives you a window manager like setup also I would be more used to terminal etc
I have to run MacOS for work and can confirm, Yabai, skhd, Übersicht and simple-bar are an excellent alternative to the Qtile setup I have running on my desktop.
The man doesn’t understand R&D.
Imagine a world without closed companies like Apple now or Bell Labs many years ago. Who in that world is going to come up with all the innovative technology?
You must have enormous funding to invent smartphones, ultra-slim laptops or to bring a new revolutionary processor architecture to the PC market (M1 and M2). Only then can this technology be ripped off by open-source software guys or Chinese tech companies.
You wouldn’t have linux without proprietary UNIX. You wouldn’t have open-source android phones without iPhone 1. You wouldn’t be using a slim HUAWEI laptop running linux if Apple hadn’t set the trend with the first MacBook Air.
Apple has now made M1 and M2 chips which are a gigantic leap forward in portable computing. And they allow to run custom OSs on their devices. So all that’s left is to port linux to them and enjoy desktop-grade open-source performance on a laptop 1cm wide.
It’s just narrow to see the world in black-and-white and call Apple a corporation of evil.
And it’s even more silly to think that your Alexa or some other such device is constantly spying on you. The man just has no idea about state-of-the-art in speech recognition. As of yet speech recognition requires much computing power. Your Alexa has a separate really lightweight ML model built-in to specifically detect when its name is spoken (the name Alexa is quite easy to pick up). Only then your speech is recorded, sent to a powerful server and recognised there. It is not worth the gain to listen on everything around all Alexas. Amazon doesn’t care about your everyday life. These companies get enough info about you from your search history, your purchases, etc. It would just be a tremendous waste of money to have the computational power allocated to every Alexa 24/7. DT has such a narrow outlook. It’s a shame really
Newer macbooks have a good build quality, but unlike their intel predecessors, you can’t upgrade by yourself a lot stuff. If I recall correctly the RAM is one of those.
However one good thing is they don’t get extremely hot even when playing games and the battery easily lasts for hours. Yes you can game on Apple Silicon with some patience and persistence, although that’s not what I’m using my macbook pro m1 for.
I got a macbook and an iPhone, two years ago and they have their downsides but one thing you didn’t mention about the tracking stuff, on Android is very common from Chinese companies not just Google. To my knowledge the only true Android phone you can tweak as much as you want is the Pixel phone, but I would never use a Pixel Phone with a custom ROM like Graphene OS installed, not because I like the idea of being tracked 24/7, but because many apps are not working on custom ROMs (some banking apps do not work).
Most of these chinese phones have everything blocked, for instance you can’t unblock the bootloader or access root permissions. I had a Xiaomi a few years ago and I was shocked when I discovered some hidden Facebook packages were installed even if I never installed facebook on that phone and to unlock the boot loader to install something like Lineage OS, you had to first contact the Xiaomi support and provide a reason for them to unlock it, why ?
Going back to macOS, the Asahi Linux team is working very hard to bring a fully functional Linux OS on Apple Silicon Hardware. Many things are still not working but it’s usable.
I’m not sure yet if I will keep using Apple products because I’d like to explore other linux distributions not just Asahi, for Android I’m interested to try and use Graphene OS but not as a daily driver, not until I’m sure the apps I need can all work :D