Making a Sodium Chlorate Cell

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  • Опубліковано 16 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 147

  • @TeslaFactory
    @TeslaFactory 5 років тому +38

    Kiwi electrochemist here; hit me up if you ever want a second pair of eyes to go over things xD Love your work, mate!

  • @Futt.Buckerson
    @Futt.Buckerson 3 роки тому +11

    Gotta love the online Chem geniuses. They're a great resource for us rubes.

  • @spudd86
    @spudd86 4 роки тому +70

    If you ever need pure salt again you should probably go for pickling salt, it's non-iodized and doesn't contain anti-caking agents and should be very pure sodium chloride.

    • @wat8437
      @wat8437 4 роки тому +4

      Pickling salt is a very american thing, so it might not be available over the water

    • @blackirish781
      @blackirish781 4 роки тому +4

      Kosher salt is pure NaCl and available everywhere.

    • @chemistryofquestionablequa6252
      @chemistryofquestionablequa6252 3 роки тому +2

      Kosher salt is pure NaCl

    • @MrBradshawbenjamin
      @MrBradshawbenjamin 3 роки тому

      @@wat8437 really? why?

    • @WizardNumberNext
      @WizardNumberNext 3 роки тому +7

      @@chemistryofquestionablequa6252 wrong kosher salt can be anything, as long it would have big flaky crystals
      kosher salt doesn't even have to contain any sodium

  • @willyou2199
    @willyou2199 5 років тому +17

    1 mole of electrons is 96458 coulombs of electrons. Or in other words, at 6 amps, you'd be producing 62 micromoles of electrons per second. 2 electrons are required to liberate a chlorine molecule, so 6A would be giving off 1.5mls of chlorine a second.
    1.5ml/s is alot, in 24hours you'd fill 129 1L bottles.
    6-7A is also crazy high current for a small setup like yours. Energy losses through wires are proportional to current squared. Just 1 ohms on your crocodile clips and you'd be producing 30-50 watts of wasted heat

    • @VerbenaIDK
      @VerbenaIDK 2 роки тому

      well that's fine, if it keeps the cell at 80 c, for maximum efficiency, less work to do :p

  • @AllChemystery
    @AllChemystery 7 років тому +19

    Nice electrodes! the best thing about these cells is the simplicity. even the simplest setups will produce chlorates if made well. plus they can just run unattended. i'm sure woeleon will appreciate the shoutout.
    have just last week finished a rather large run of my newly made 1.9l cell. i used the electrodes i built for my video on my cell but put them in a nice large reject shop bought barrel. two rubber grommets kept the whole thing nicely contained with no crust creep to be seen and safe enough to run inside. it was running at 5v 18A and i run about 900g NaCl.
    The problem is now dichromate leftover in solution and it has made the NaClO3 yellow with it's inclusion. not really sure if a re crystallization will remove it totally. but i have not tried yet.
    a tip to help the electrolysis go smoother would be to put it on your stir plate and spin away for a few hours at a time. i had mine running on off most of the way through on a timer for 15mins per hour.

    • @ExtractionsAndIre
      @ExtractionsAndIre  7 років тому +6

      Yeah I could chuck in on the hotplate, just to keep it at a good running temperature as it gets cold afternight, good thought.
      1.9L cell, niceee. Hopefully the recryst does clear it up, working on that scale is hard, but don't see why the recryst of the material wont fix that issue.

    • @AllChemystery
      @AllChemystery 7 років тому +2

      NerdShedLabs TM GeekSufniLab once you work out the cell parameters eg: volume, Amps, anode surface area, the amount of salt in the cell, you can use some fairly simple calculations to get a good idea on how many amp hours are needed to convert the salt into chlorate. The main problem is calculated efficiency. Finally you can take advantage of the higher solubility of NaClO3 vs NaCl and recrystallise it. Also separate using acetone may be possible as NaCl is practically insoluble in acetone and NaClO3 is.

    • @yermom1896
      @yermom1896 6 років тому

      AllChemystery

    • @tomasbrod1533
      @tomasbrod1533 6 років тому

      Nope. Mine passivated after 6 hours. It is probably because I did something wrong two times in a row. Anyway I got more and I am going to try again.

    • @VerbenaIDK
      @VerbenaIDK 2 роки тому

      other cool thing about these cells is that you can even make perchlorate if you are determinated enough
      tho idk if i will even be able to make chlorate with the stuff i have, no heating, just water, table salt and graphite electrodes, been running it for pobably 2 hours rn from a old ass phone charger and all i got is a weird green stuff floating on the surface, definitively not sodium chlorate

  • @NicholasA231
    @NicholasA231 5 років тому +16

    15:43 - I can tell something funny is about to be revealed, but I didn't know I'd shortly be laughing myself to tears and giving myself goddamn hiccups for 20 minutes. Man, never stop being you. All of the careful working out, attention to detail, etc, and then... yeah. That shit never fails for me either.

  • @AnthonyHandcock
    @AnthonyHandcock 5 років тому +27

    80% x 80% = Reasonable.
    Can't argue with the maths :-D

  • @2mc29
    @2mc29 5 років тому +8

    Hey mate 😊
    Just wanted to say that I really enjoy your videos. you're absolutely awesome! Please keep them going!

  • @tinobassi59
    @tinobassi59 7 років тому +18

    Damn decimal points.

  • @tomasbrod1533
    @tomasbrod1533 6 років тому +3

    Thank you for working on this and making a video. I had made chlorate a few times now, first with carbon, then with MMO. Also I like your way of talking and speech. I wouldn't worry about pH controll unless you can drip-feed your acid in. you can read on APC that just splashing acid every two days won't improve the efficiency. Your constant current supply is more suited to chlorate than my constant voltage one, but is not very strong. Unfortunatelly it is way harder to modify (the free!) computer PSUs into constant current mode than to voltage mode.

    • @OrbitalSaucer
      @OrbitalSaucer 5 років тому +4

      voltage is the parameter which dictates the specific chemistry occurring in the cell, and so I would choose this to be the parameter kept constant. Amperage is the number of moles per unit time produced and should be simply maximized without the electrolyte getting too hot.

  • @canaan5337
    @canaan5337 6 років тому +14

    Crocodile clips is that an Australian thing? in America we call them alligator clips.

    • @transkryption
      @transkryption 5 років тому

      Different snout and don't eat children in Disney World

    • @bearcatben4762
      @bearcatben4762 5 років тому +1

      @@transkryption also crocodiles can live well on land but alligators need water periodically

    • @kirkc9643
      @kirkc9643 5 років тому +1

      @@transkryption bahahaha crocodiles aren't fussy...they'll eat adults or children

  • @chrismandros3087
    @chrismandros3087 5 років тому +11

    “The cats not allowed in the lab… Obviously”

  • @jonadams8841
    @jonadams8841 Рік тому +4

    9:48 it’s good you’re 80% positive the electrode isn’t negative

  • @barriehemming1189
    @barriehemming1189 5 років тому +3

    Electrolytic cells are awesome!!!!

    • @bromisovalum8417
      @bromisovalum8417 3 роки тому

      Yep they are! Organic electrochemistry is cool too, but ther's the eternal diaphragm issues, and you'd be best to invest in a calomel or silver/silver chloride reference electrode so you can fien tune the voltage needed for your cell conditions to maximize the wanted reaction and minimize the competing gas evolution reaction. A Kolbe reaction is a nice one to test the waters, or a simple (high overvoltage) electroreduction.

  • @stamasd8500
    @stamasd8500 7 років тому +2

    You do not need to add dichromate when you use MMO anode and titanium cathode. Actually if you do use it it will shorten the life of your MMO anode. Dichromate is only needed when using a steel cathode to limit parasitic reactions, but those are very minimal when using titanium. I run a cell similar to yours without dichromate and it works very well.

    • @DrakkarCalethiel
      @DrakkarCalethiel 7 років тому

      stamasd Thanks for the information! Since dichromates are only commercially​ available I'll just need to get a titanium and a MMO electrode.

    • @TheFireGoose
      @TheFireGoose Рік тому

      Do graphite electrodes benefit from dichromates?

  • @WizardNumberNext
    @WizardNumberNext 3 роки тому

    that is surprising
    sodium chloride dissolves 30g in 100ml water of any liquid temperature, so it may be close to freezing or close to boiling and it still be 30g/100ml

  • @stephenwood4053
    @stephenwood4053 3 роки тому

    Try 5 volts 1 amp and tig rods. and time 6.7 ph 70c and don't pour salt in the mix it will cause a direct short

  • @guythat779
    @guythat779 4 роки тому +7

    Yellow chem!

  • @accipiternisus649
    @accipiternisus649 6 років тому

    Keep it btw 40-50 celsius and it should run fine

  • @87bwadman
    @87bwadman 2 місяці тому

    Iodine is added to salt because during the cold War, nutritional scientists found our modern diet lacked iodine, we were deficient. This is a problem because iodine helps with the effects of radiation exposure. Iodine is added salt because of paranoia.

    • @Jimmy_CV
      @Jimmy_CV 17 днів тому

      Ah the 60's good times

  • @elephystry
    @elephystry 7 років тому +1

    Does aqueous sodium chlorate have better or worse electrolytic properties than aqueous sodium chloride?

  • @graemewight2975
    @graemewight2975 3 роки тому

    In evaporation pan salt making theyve got it sussed out, they know what pops out sol ( ution ) 1st and so on down to the last faction. So yeah.

  • @Burak_7333
    @Burak_7333 Рік тому

    Did you place the hose so that the jar touches the water?.please i am waiting for reply

  • @zubmit700
    @zubmit700 7 років тому

    Can't wait for the update. Love your videos!

  • @omsingharjit
    @omsingharjit 4 роки тому

    12:30 but wikki says you have to heat nacl aqs in order to make naclo2 in this way ??

  • @guythat779
    @guythat779 4 роки тому +2

    Electro chemistry is interesting but not exciting not much happens and it's hard to do in casual/ghetto settings so I don't really delve in it
    But lovely video man

  • @georgeh5075
    @georgeh5075 2 роки тому +1

    Doing electrochem atm in uni and it's "voodoo horseshit"

  • @nbrpwng
    @nbrpwng 7 років тому +1

    Is it relatively easier and/or less electrical current-intensive to just make a solution of sodium hypochlorite, then use heating to disproportionate that into chloride and chlorate? I ask because maybe that could be a quicker or more viable option for people without higher-current electrical power supplies for the electrolysis.

    • @ExtractionsAndIre
      @ExtractionsAndIre  7 років тому +4

      Good question. Yes it is less current intensive, but it doesn't produce good quality Na chlorate. If it id, I could boil down the 10L of 10% hypochlorite I have lying around.
      Ok so think about it like this: boiling hypochlorite makes chloride and chlorate. So for every molecule of chlorate, there's roughly one molecule of chloride. The chloride is less soluble, so it will be difficult to purify a 50/50 mix of Na Chloride/chlorate.
      In a chloride cell, you're turning chloride into chlorate, so while you're increasing chlorate molecules you're also decreasing chloride molecules, so after some time its easy to purify out chlorate because it's in vast excess.

    • @Minecraftmigapiku
      @Minecraftmigapiku 3 роки тому +1

      How about mixed method. Heat up to get 50/50 mix and them electrolysis?

  • @simon.scurtu
    @simon.scurtu 2 роки тому

    Is the sodium dichromate mandatory? why add sodium dichromate?

  • @omsingharjit
    @omsingharjit 3 роки тому

    What use of dichromate ?

  • @Frostlander
    @Frostlander 7 років тому +3

    What is cold for you? 5C?

    • @ExtractionsAndIre
      @ExtractionsAndIre  7 років тому +14

      sometimes it reaches zero ok i'm soft alright

    • @Frostlander
      @Frostlander 7 років тому +4

      Not tossing flak, just wanted a good idea of what the temp was in the vid. I appreciate the speedy reply.

  • @n0username0n
    @n0username0n 3 роки тому +1

    PANIC!!!
    Positive anode, negative is cathode
    Always helps me ahah

  • @jeroengrimmelikhuijzen6819
    @jeroengrimmelikhuijzen6819 4 роки тому +1

    Where did you find those TACC and TACN papers? I've been trying too look everywhere but i can't seem to find a good source

  • @Timothy656
    @Timothy656 7 років тому

    When you talk about periodically adjusting the pH of the solution manually - that must be a hassle. Why dont you setup a simple pH Arduino controller unit with an automatic injector valve connected to a small bottle of HCl. This seems like the perfect example where it would be highly effective at and it wouldn't be to difficult to setup either considering all the parts are available online. That means you would have a fully autonomous process and you can just check on it from time to time :)

    • @ExtractionsAndIre
      @ExtractionsAndIre  7 років тому +2

      Hey i've been thinking about this for a while so here is the reply:
      I mean first up is the cost and effort of such a system to fix what is a relatively minor problem for the cell. I have no idea how to code at all so there's that. pH meters, at least good ones, at quite pricey.
      But anyway, the major issue I feel is an issue with pH meters themselves. pH meters aren't designed to stay for long periods in solutions (other than the buffer they come with). They work but continually comparing an internal reference solution to the outside world. If the meter stays in the basic chlorate cell, it would quick begin to drift and before long it would likely be all over the shop with its values. So it needs to not soak in the solution and also continually get calibrated.
      I do like the idea of it being autonomous though. If the cells holds at ~50C then the evaporation rate is reasonable, so a very slow drip of a very weak acid + some NaCl would replace the water and keep the pH more reasonable, something like that wouldn't be that hard to rig up. Would also stop the chloride level falling so fast, but still lets the chlorate crystalise out when it reaches that point, as you're adding a solution of the NaCl.

    • @Timothy656
      @Timothy656 7 років тому

      www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Digital-pH-Controller-Meter-Tester-Replaceable-BNC-Electrode-220V-or-110V/201748400270?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908131621%26meid%3D52065665bfad488aaf99a74d17900d56%26pid%3D100678%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D13%26sd%3D201748400270&_trksid=p2481888.c100678.m3607&_trkparms=pageci%253Aab1e24d1-86c8-11e7-986f-74dbd180f925%257Cparentrq%253A0721c80915e0abc642f9720ffffdf68b%257Ciid%253A1

    • @tomasbrod1533
      @tomasbrod1533 6 років тому

      For more info see: www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/7502-ph-control-for-chlorate-cells/

    • @firstmkb
      @firstmkb 4 роки тому

      Extractions&Ire I doubt a DIY pH monitor would be worth the trouble, but you could mount the probe on a servo and have the Arduino dip it in the solution periodically. Relying on new code to release HCl would make me a bit nervous - nothing for someone that makes the products you do though!

  • @jl8n29
    @jl8n29 5 років тому +1

    Hey mate how do you measure the pH without bleaching your strips? I'm pretty sure I added waaay too much HCl as well due to difficulty reading bleached strips, and I've got two different kinds.

    • @ExtractionsAndIre
      @ExtractionsAndIre  5 років тому +1

      Usually the colour comes up first before the bleaching or your let the drop soak in enough that the edges give a good enough reading. That probably makes no sense, but it works with the strips I use. I've never liked the standard 4 panel dip pH strip ones for this reason,

  • @Jkauppa
    @Jkauppa 3 роки тому

    its gonna boom

  • @FakultasIslam
    @FakultasIslam 6 місяців тому

    Can i using another catode without titanium? Pls reply

  • @TomsLab
    @TomsLab 7 років тому +6

    Lol that conspiracy site you linked says "No company in Australia, USA, or other developed countries is allowed legally to use the word "natural" on it's packaging, if the product contains any tape of preservatives or chemicals." I can't think of one food that doesn't contain chemicals.

    • @ExtractionsAndIre
      @ExtractionsAndIre  7 років тому +17

      you lose a lot of weight on a chemical free diet

    • @OrbitalSaucer
      @OrbitalSaucer 5 років тому +3

      @@ExtractionsAndIre pure iron filings should be edible and an element rather than a chemical

  • @omsingharjit
    @omsingharjit 3 роки тому

    Is it possible to make NaClO2 from NaCl using similar method ??

  • @arachnidadocumentary6159
    @arachnidadocumentary6159 Рік тому

    is titanium required?

  • @cleoking6312
    @cleoking6312 4 роки тому +4

    5 bucks that he typed in "food additive *blah blah blah*" saw conspiracy theories and them went back to search and typed "food additive *blah blah blah* identity"

  • @MrBradshawbenjamin
    @MrBradshawbenjamin 3 роки тому

    I mean they are aluminum rocks, is it water soluble? After getting to the anti-caking agent part I checked the salt in the house and it just had calcium silicate, dextrose, and KI, which did relieve me lol. I mean I'm sure the sodium aluminosilicate is in real small amounts, but it still kinda freaked me out a little

  • @DMTW
    @DMTW 7 років тому +2

    Are you in Australia?

  • @RussellTeapot
    @RussellTeapot 2 роки тому

    What are the best chemist compounds? Bromate ones.
    Because they are Bro, Mates!
    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAAHAHAHHA
    AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH
    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
    *LMAO*

  • @Haydy5040
    @Haydy5040 4 роки тому

    glassy carbon seems to work fine

    • @davemwangi05
      @davemwangi05 4 роки тому +1

      what the hell is glassy carbon?

    • @CatboyChemicalSociety
      @CatboyChemicalSociety 4 роки тому +1

      @@davemwangi05 something not worth your time honestly.
      MMO is cheaper and better and with pH control your cell will run better.

    • @CatboyChemicalSociety
      @CatboyChemicalSociety 4 роки тому +2

      I actually want to get glassy carbon to dope it with boron so it can make NaClO4!!

  • @the_cat_prinse3506
    @the_cat_prinse3506 7 років тому +1

    Was about to say 'is this really a Explosions&Fire video if it doesn't have everybody's favourite Explosions&Fire opening music?' but then I realised it's your other channel.
    You need theme music, my bro-mate ;)

  • @TrapperAaron
    @TrapperAaron 4 роки тому

    Jesus when u said u were putting 7 amps through there I was wondering where all the heat was. God damn decimal points

  • @jangisgand6140
    @jangisgand6140 7 років тому +2

    Why sodium chlorate but not potassium chlorate?

    • @ExtractionsAndIre
      @ExtractionsAndIre  7 років тому +6

      Think i'll need the more soluble salt for an upcoming project or two. Also just to be a little difference, less videos on a sodium chlorate cell than potassium (not that there's much difference)

    • @accipiternisus649
      @accipiternisus649 6 років тому

      It give great yellow color.And kclo3 gives more red

    • @accipiternisus649
      @accipiternisus649 6 років тому +1

      Wei Zhao make sodium perchlorate solution then just add ammonium chloride and you have ammonium perchlorate percipate at bottom

  • @nicktohzyu
    @nicktohzyu 6 років тому

    why are you avoiding potassium?

    • @ExtractionsAndIre
      @ExtractionsAndIre  6 років тому

      nickt potassium chlorate is much less soluble than sodium chlorate, so will come out as an impurity in the crop of crystals we get. Not an issue for most applications, but it's annoying for some, and so if we're going to the effort of making Na chlorate, we might as well make it as good as can be, ya feel

    • @nicktohzyu
      @nicktohzyu 6 років тому

      what are applications where you want to avoid potassium? thanks for replying

    • @ExtractionsAndIre
      @ExtractionsAndIre  6 років тому

      nickt thanks for commenting!
      Well I was making this sodium chlorate because I wanted to make ammonium chlorate (see my other channel called Explosions&Fire2), which needs to crystallise out from solution. Any potassium in the chlorate would contaminate it, and the energetic properties of the ammonium chlorate rely on the fact that there's just ammonium and chlorate, so potassium would lead to an inferior product. Sure, it would be minor, but it is nice being sure of purity

    • @bearcatben4762
      @bearcatben4762 5 років тому +1

      @@ExtractionsAndIre Why would your rain water have potassium in it? do you live inside of a coal plant

  • @ethelana9627
    @ethelana9627 4 роки тому +9

    lmao if i can eat clay I can eat 554

    • @WizardNumberNext
      @WizardNumberNext 3 роки тому +1

      yes, you can eat clay
      clay is aluminium oxide, same as sapphire
      Good look dissolving or reacting sapphire in hydrochloric acid even including all enzymes human body is using to digest food
      it is different with artificial additive
      just be safe and don't compare completely different chemicals like both are apples
      one maybe be Apple, but other is very much goat

    • @Damon2920
      @Damon2920 3 роки тому

      @@WizardNumberNext clay is alumino silicates not aluminium oxide. Kaolinite for example is a 1:1 clay or montmorillonite is a 2:1 clay

    • @WizardNumberNext
      @WizardNumberNext 3 роки тому

      @@Damon2920 thank you for correction. I appreciate information. I had idea, bad half of my idea was wrong. Thanks

  • @science_and_anonymous
    @science_and_anonymous 7 років тому +1

    it's cold in Australia mate? though most of that was a dessert hahahah

  • @zachreyhelmberger894
    @zachreyhelmberger894 5 років тому

    You are making me dizzy! Can you use a tripod for your camera?

  • @Romuls753
    @Romuls753 5 років тому +1

    MMO?

    • @OrbitalSaucer
      @OrbitalSaucer 5 років тому

      multiple metal oxide, a special coating to resist anodic breakdown since almost all metals get destroyed under these conditions. Lead dioxide elctrodes from batteries can do in a pinch

    • @Romuls753
      @Romuls753 5 років тому

      @@OrbitalSaucer ah, okay. Good to know

    • @OrbitalSaucer
      @OrbitalSaucer 5 років тому

      oh your're some nazi degenerate great

    • @somniato7759
      @somniato7759 5 років тому

      @@OrbitalSaucer what?

    • @BackYardScience2000
      @BackYardScience2000 4 роки тому

      @@somniato7759 , check out bruni's profile picture.

  • @alans7358
    @alans7358 7 років тому +2

    Lmao so true about the organic blogs and conspiracy shit online. Chemicals = hazards, didn't you know that ;D

  • @barretprivateer8768
    @barretprivateer8768 3 роки тому

    Hah you call alligator clips crocodile clips

  • @Pablo668
    @Pablo668 4 роки тому +2

    Did you just assume that cells gender? You monster!!

  • @nathanpimental4409
    @nathanpimental4409 7 років тому +5

    "...the pHaych"

    • @ExtractionsAndIre
      @ExtractionsAndIre  7 років тому +3

      yo but how do you say it then?

    • @nathanpimental4409
      @nathanpimental4409 7 років тому +3

      "peey-Aych" - No hard-breath vowel...

    • @the_cat_prinse3506
      @the_cat_prinse3506 7 років тому +4

      That's fairly common pronunciation in Australia. Our articulation of alphabet letters are taught "ee, eff, gee, haych, eye, jay..."

  • @milyan360
    @milyan360 7 років тому +1

    "80% positive" ha..ha

  • @WizardNumberNext
    @WizardNumberNext 3 роки тому

    well fine
    this salt additive maybe be rock, but you forgotten your stomach is not full of water but hydrochloric acid, so you should first check how it reacts there with additions of other acids and enzymes, then you have duodenum, which adds other enzymes
    suddenly you shouldn't be that relaxed about anything containing aluminium
    on the other side tea contains some aluminium too
    I honestly don't know effects of this additive, but I wouldn't be that quick to judge either way
    just stay at safe side and avoid such salt, as it may end up poisonous anyway

  • @RR2BOX46
    @RR2BOX46 3 роки тому

    pee-heyache

  • @guythat779
    @guythat779 4 роки тому

    ..... 7 amps bruh

  • @crystalsheep1434
    @crystalsheep1434 2 роки тому

    Hmmm

  • @thecrudelab3204
    @thecrudelab3204 6 років тому

    i thought u use bleach....

    • @OrbitalSaucer
      @OrbitalSaucer 5 років тому +1

      hypochlorite (bleach) is an intermediate of the process of going from chlorides to chlorates via electrolysis, so you could use bleach if it was concentrated enough

  • @wat8437
    @wat8437 4 роки тому

    While you're on the subject of electrochemistry . You could give methamphetamine by electrolysis a a try.