2 lbs of mushy, gritty trigger won't help your accuracy the same way as 5 lbs of short, crisp trigger. Weight is not the only factor and may not be the most important one.
Yeah having a very clear distinct wall to prep at before pulling the rest of the way through can be quite beneficial. Nothing worse than a spongy trigger with an ambiguous wall.
I have a "Set" trigger on my flintlock and never use it. Here in the coal regions it is so rough you don't need one unless you are on a powerline. I can't imagine swinging on a moving deer with my finger on a super light trigger.
I have to say that for decades I thought that a trigger could never be too light. Well, I have a Savage 6.5 Creedmoor that is insanely accurate from the factory and makes 1,000 yard shots almost too easy. It is crisp, it is smooth but straight from the factory it has a true hair trigger. I've been shooting for almost 50 years and I still have fired that rifle several times before I really wanted to. The trigger is adjustable and I am going to have to add a little bit to it. I still love a light trigger and feel it gives a shooter a more consistent shot, especially for target shooting. But as a retired LEO I will say that firing a round off when you weren't quite ready can have devastating, everlasting effects. I prefer a light trigger but there is such a thing as too light.
My brother has a muzzleloader with a stupidly light trigger. I do not recall what the weight is, but it is practically zero as far as I am concerned. When I went to shoot it for the first time it went off basically as I touched the trigger. Scared the hell out of me. I had no clue it was about to go off like that. When I took the second shot, it was the same thing but I was expecting it. And he was planning to hunt with it. Not sure if he ever did.
We come for the coffee, but stay for information. (Truth is most of this is simply confirmation because it’s usually simple stuff, but there are gems hidden in some topics).
Thumbs up to the production team for reducing the background music, some of which is overbearing in other installments. I don't care for bgm in informational "table-side" formats, so this amount is much more enjoyable and personable.
I'll take a 5 lb trigger with a crisp, predictable break over one with a 2.5 lb mushy, vague break. The 2 types of breaks are apparent on 1911s and even Glocks. I've pulled some aftermarket Glock triggers that broke surprisingly crisp, and on the opposite end you have ones with connectors that just feel like... nothing. No wall, just mush until the break. Blegh. Wouldn't prefer that type of pull for either range fun or duty/defense.
Many aftermarket 3.5 connectors for Glocks make for creepy mushy breaks. I'd really rather keep the standard 5 pound connector than deal with that garbage.
Glock 19 apex trigger zev technologies connector and apex ultimate plunger. Took my mushy gritty stock tigger and make it a lot better.. also polished it all too
Double action to single action is another excellent example of lighter isn't always better. My carry gun, an Astra A-100 "Panther," (Spanish service pistol from the '90s) relies on the 12.5 lb double action to act as the safety, which is great, because it lets me carry hammer down (has a hammer bar and firing pin bar to ensure it's drop safe) with a round chambered and all I have to do is aim and shoot. After the first shot, or if I manually cock the hammer, the trigger moves way back, and becomes a super crisp 2.5 lb trigger with a short reset. So in that case, a very heavy DA trigger is a great thing as it allows safe carry but also immediate access to firing if you need it, and the accuracy you suffer doesn't really matter because if you need to act so fast you don't have time to cock the hammer, your target is no doubt so dang close a bit of heavy trigger jerk isn't gonna cause a miss. Also looks really good in court, because it helps solidify your claim that your trigger pull was deliberate because you were indeed that convinced your life was in imminent danger that you had to consciously exert nearly 13 pounds with your finger to shoot. Also prevents the prosecutor from claiming it was a negligent discharge, calling your firearm competence into question.
People say the trigger on my Tokarev has too much take-up and the pull is heavy, but that hasn't hurt my accuracy and I feel comfortable knowing that it will not fire before I intend it to. A heavier trigger on a pistol is the way to go for me. Good topic!
I love you guys once again very useful and gave me an other way to look at it. I was gonna have my ar's a trigger job done in them. But you gave me a few things to tjink about from the sounds of it i wpuld probably like a 3-4lb crisp trigger over a 2lb trigger. Yall are doin great things here keep it up guys. Simple and to the point.... I love it
I would definitely agree. Lighter is not always better. I tested some trigger mods on the TC Compass, and at 2.5lbs, if the buttstock was struck from as little as a 6" drop, it will drop the firing pin. Using a combo of springs that brought it back up to 3.5lbs provided drop safety well over 2+ feet. I'll take that extra safety for a little more pull weight out in the field.
I personally shoot a mil spec trigger better than a Gucci ar trigger. With that said sill want to try a SSA or a SD-C trigger before writing off all Gucci triggers.
i have 2 m16a5 clones and they both have SD-E triggers in them and they have a pull feel of about 3 pounds weight. this is a 2 stage trigger design, i have found that lubing the crap out of the trigger during install and when you take it to the range will yield the best overall feel in terms of smoothness and pull weight feel.
Not trigger pull as such but. I can watch at least one famous gun UA-camr who appears to use a trigger pull gauge at all sorts of angles. In my mind I can see differences between most hinged triggers and the straight pull trigger on a 1911. Is there a guide for how to use a trigger pull gauge to avoid what I can best describe as the equivalent of cosine error? Which is what happens with a dial gauge in engineering you don't measure square to the plane in which you are trying to measure?
Outside of the gun range, the only time my gun should be shot is in a self-defense situation, and in that situation I want my gun to go off right when I want it to. We can all say we practice perfect trigger discipline, but no amount of practice will ever let you know how you'll actually handle a life or death situation. If you are scared for the safety of your family after waking up to sounds in your house at 2am, you might very well not practice good trigger discipline in that moment. And it would be a crying shame for the slight tremble in your finger to send a bullet off at an unintended target.
I have always hated the modern day gun safety procedure. In the old days you had a decent trigger pull and you had to purposely pull the trigger. A lot of people blame poor accuracy on a fine trigger.
@@JW--dc8ri heavy? The mosin trigger is the most elegant out there. 4 stages of gritty creep, and a 10 pound break. Russian craftsmanship at its finest.
My dad's old Thompson Arms .45 cal muzzle loading black powder rifle has an interesting setup I just don't seem to see on modern guns. It has 2 triggers, the front one being your normal trigger, and I think it's 4-5 pounds. However, it has a tandem "hair trigger" behind it, and if I remember correctly, to use it, you need to pull the hammer back one extra stage, which sets the hair trigger. At that point, you can literally blow on the trigger and it'll fire. It's adjustable with a screw, I think, to set the sensitivity, but even at the heavy end I think it's only 1 pound. Pretty cool system, extremely effective, but you do need to mind your environment as on the lightest setting, a gust of wind can set it off when the hair trigger is set. Or so I'm told. I've never fired it myself, and only know what he told me about it. I actually tracked it down once, well, a .50 caliber version (my dad's is .45). This is what it looks like. The seller of this one estimates the hair trigger is about 2 to 3 oz. www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/555/1/AAT-280
When, I built my first AR-15. I matched the trigger weight to the trigger weight of my carry handgun. A USP .45 Expert. Both the single action on the USP and the trigger on my AR have a 3.5 lb pull.
I've got a CZ SP01 Competition that I built into a race gun, I got the pull weight down to 1.8 pounds and friggin love the thing, but the thought of using that gun for duty or carry use scares me, it is _very_ easy to unintentionally pull a trigger that light and short (it's a SAO flat trigger with only .050" thou of total trigger travel, and only has .012" thousandths of take-up before hitting the wall, and only requires .002" thou of pull to fire after that, it is _touchy_ AF), there are definitely reasons to use and want a light trigger in a firearm but the use case must be analyzed before going too light. A competition or range toy can have as light a trigger as you can safely handle, but a combat or duty weapon needs an extra margin of added safety, if you trip and fall or drop your gun for whatever reason you dont want to shoot yourself or someone you're not aiming at, and a stiff trigger will definitely help prevent that, my carry guns are worked over to provide the maximum smoothness and crispness possible without altering their pull weight, there are lots of ways to improve a trigger pull without making it lighter, a little polishing of the sear, hammer catches, striker leg, whatever type of gun you have can be made smoother with a more crisp break without taking pounds off the pull to maintain safety.
Got my EDC Glock 43 trigger with a swapped out Johnny Glock carry trigger and the results on the range have been amazing and the trigger is still at 4.5-5.2 pull weight . Love it.
Fellows, THANKS for this excellent video. I hope this comment will assist some viewers. One of my best autoloaders is a Kahr K-4044. It’s an all stainless, DAO (double action only), .40 S&W, with Lother-Walther hammer forged, polygonal 3.5 inch barrel. Many polymer frame Kahrs have reportedly had a few problems, but their all stainless “Elite” series semiautomatics are really superb. Because thus firearm has no safeties (other than a firing pin block), it has a LONG trigger pull that breaks at about 6.5 pounds. BUT - and here’s the key point - that trigger pull is incredibly smooth. Very much like an excellent, hand fitted, revolver in double action, the Kahr’s trigger pull smooth, entirely non-gritty and has no stacking. This means a constant steady pull to a clean, crisp break, and it is possible due to Kahr’s patented cocking cam system that provides a trigger stroke unsurpassed in smoothness, even by custom pistols So, 6.5 pounds is not a light trigger . . . HOWEVER, the length and the weight of the pull act as a safety for this DAO firearm AND the smoothness of the pull enables excellent accuracy despite its weight and length.
I have never seen a 1911 with a trigger job that didn't have hammer follow, double taps with one trigger pull, dropping to half cock, thumb safety doesn't prevent hammer from dropping to half cock notch not too many good gunsmiths. I don't trust trigger jobs at all and don't like them
If I make a trigger system for a sniper rifle for example, I would make a 2 stage trigger, when the first travel should be light, the second stage a heavy but short and crisp pull
Great information as always. Personally, I have never considered having trigger work done. I hunt for the table, not the trophy and only go to a range if I have a new firearm to train on. My AR's are factory original FN and Colt, and they work fine as is. All my hunting rifles I have been shooting for more than 10 seasons and I am very familiar with each. Yes, I am a Fudd who does not feel the need to improve on the excellent firearms I own.
My favourite race gun is a Bushmaster all mall ninja’d for competition. The trigger is stock but smooth at slightly more then 5.5lbs. And I shoot open and unlimited so I can have almost anything I want. (I’m usually in the top 1/3rd of competitors).
@Jbog07 Thank you very much for the encouragement. I support and defend the constitution of the United States 100%. I have taught several of my neighbors that are first time AR owners safety, manual of arms, immediate action drills and basic marksmanship. They have come from the liberal left to the middle (mostly) but all are now understanding and accepting that there is a time and a place for legal firearms ownership.
Try a fully hardened trigger group for an ar that's been properly polished and cleaned up. Same weight same springs still mil spec design and I think you will find out that you shoot a lot better with a nice clean stack and break with more consistent feel and performance. I agree that a tricked out expensive drop in trigger is unnecessary but clean polished parts that meet at break cleanly and predictably feel better, work better and most importantly shrink groups making training and hunting more effective. just my .02
I agree. You often hear old school instructors say you want the shot to “surprise” you. I absolutely disagree with that. Every shot should be 100% intentional and break exactly when you intend it to. This is why I prefer a crisp single stage trigger. 2 1/2 lbs is ideal for me, but even at that weight, you need to be sure the trigger job is done 100% correctly. I’ve had to correct geometry on “drop in” triggers that pull that low because they were unsafe. Some, I’ve had to scrap. I’d recommend for most people not to go below 4 lbs on a practical gun (hunting, self defense, duty, etc.). Lighter than that only for target or “game” guns.
The shot "surprising" you thing is more a way of teaching someone to have a more smooth, uniform trigger pull rather than clamping down suddenly like you're trying to choke someone out. I think the intention is moreso about teaching new shooters the basics of shooting accurately rather than talking about the feel of the trigger pull itself. Picking up on trigger break is more something that comes with time.
You don’t want the gun to go off don’t pull the trigger. It’s as simple as keeping your finger off the trigger until you’re ready to shoot. Take it from someone who shot them self
i like PSA EPT triggers. palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar15-pa10-enhanced-polished-trigger.html and when you're pushing the trigger and hammer pins through just use a pair of leather work gloves and use a old copper penny to push the pin through. wiggle while you push. just make sure the holes are lined up. no need for a hammer or a punch. congrats on thinking ahead for your kids.
That depends mostly on the price range, there are many good trigger manufacturers out there for the AR platform now days! CMMG, CMC, Timney, Elftmann, Geissele, the list goes on and as long as you stick to a reputable brand, there are no wrong choices. In the end, the choice will come down to personal preference.
Aieee...lighter better? NO What i want in a trigger is smooth, consistent pull. What i don't want is something that's too light, doesn't break consistently, or feels rough. Too long a pull is also problematic. Basically I want consistent and repeatable.
There is much variation in a trigger depending on purpose just like a hammer one hammer is not perfect for every job it is a tool after all. For instance I've never shot a GLOCK with a good trigger but their some (few that I've seen) that can make a crisp clean trigger on a glock.
As a wise man said if you learn how to use what you have you'll do fine enough. Nine times out of ten the shooter is the greatest source of variables in the firing equation.
over 40 yrs behind triggers and experience in multiple scenarios in the field myself...and i say adjust your trigger to get it the way you like it.. to get the best out of yourself.. me personally.. i like it light trigger but with safety in mind.. hence alot of practice and testing to get my perfect setting for my intended use and making sure the firearm is safe with a light trigger... i think the ppl in this vid are talking shit when they say its a myth that a light trigger is no good... a light trigger is always better.. specially when accuracy is needed... and also there is a science behind it to.. to why lighter is better.. the problem is with alot of these guys is they get scared.. and they dont think ahead of what possible problems can occur with a light trigger or how to manage a light trigger in different situations... the lighter trigger always gives you more accuracy but can also be dangerous.. and i get that.. hence alot of testing and practicing and getting yourself right before taking a light trigger into the field.. i understand not all scenarios need a light trigger and thats absolutely fine...as i only lighten the triggers on bolt actions single shot rifles.. not on rifles like AR's... as theres no need to.. as they are never going to be accurate as a bolt action nor are semi auto pistols... maybe on a single action revolver purely for the pull and accuracy.. in the 30 yrs of you using firearms "Chance"... if you have never adjusted your triggers. how would you know if having a lighter trigger is better or not for you?... no disrespect.. but you have wasted your 30 yrs of shooting if you have never tried different adjustments to get the best out of your ability and the best out of your rifles possiblities.
My hunting 22 is 10 oz. My deer/varmint gun is about 1.5 lbs. My crossbow is about 3 lbs. They have no creep and break like glass. Most people say they are scary light. A heavy trigger induces more movement when it breaks than a light one. I like my triggers clean and crisp, a total surprise every time. And keep yer dang finger off the trigger! I always open the bolt and clear a gun before handing it to someone. You would not believe the number of people who put their finger on the trigger before they have a grip on the gun!
Or something can snag that trigger when you least expect it. Hair triggers or light aftermarket triggers can get shooters into trouble. Some modified triggers are so light just breathing on it can set it off. Clearly that is not safe. I agree. A smooth pulling clean breaking trigger is better than a light or hair trigger. There is a reason manufacturers design their stock triggers the way they do and this is why. So the trigger functions safely and properly. Thanks for sharing.
My regular deer rifle is a sporterized Spanish 7mm M98 Mauser, with the original trigger. It has a bit of take-up, but a very crisp & consistent (6 pound) break. I regularly get 5 out of 5 rounds into a two and a half inch circle at one hundred yards, (which about the farthest you can see in the dense undergrowth down here). The only work that's been done to the trigger, is when I (very carefully!) polished the mating surfaces of the sear & striker. And I keep it lightly oiled. I've never lost an injured deer or hog, when hunting. So these guys are right, if you know your firearm, and practice with it, you can make whatever trigger it's got, work for you.
I thought having nice low pull weights on my glocks would be cool. Replaced stock springs, trigger, striker spring. Ended up going back to the stock springs
I have to agree. I bought JP low power springs for my milspec trigger to bring the weight down. It was a lighter trigger (~3lbs down from ~6lbs) but it made the whole thing feel *really* mushy. Couldn't stand it, so I put the full power springs back in.
Many years ago, my mate and I swapped rifles, but I didn't realise just how light he'd made the trigger. That was not a pleasant experience, it was lightened to the point of being dangerous.
After a finger injury I can’t feel pressure on my finger so I can’t tell if it’s a good or very good trigger anymore... if I don’t have to strain to pull it, it’s good to go. That being said I can still notice a gritty trigger with creep.
Single stage or a regular Mil spec trigger with reduced power springs is a pretty good setup. I’ve shot with those Hiperfire Eclipse triggers and man, they’re too light!
I have an Apex "flatty" on my M&P 2.0. I put the heaviest set up possible with it and its 5 lbs but crisp with no over travel. I like it but im still not sure I want it for carry yet. Hopefully after a thousand rounds and a thousand dry fires I gain confidence....If not , I will put my old trigger back in it.
I've shot competition rifles since the 70's. My current 40X in 22lr is set at 7oz, my hunting rifles around 24oz. That being said, everyone differs on preferences. The main thing is to get that range time in to maximize whatever you decide is best for your needs.
I think too often a lighter trigger is used as a crutch, and it's always the first thing someone wants to throw in an AR. A decent milspec trigger isn't actually that bad, and they usually will start to break in within 200 rounds. Build that finger strength and learn how that trigger feels as an extension of yourself. Get intimate with your shot process. It's also possible to have a crappy light trigger and a really good heavy one. Smoothness of pull and crispness of break matter much more than the spring weight itself, and when you're only relying on spring weight for a trigger press, you'll soon find your weapon won't function well or will only detonate Federal primers.
I keep saying this and I’ll keep saying this: Joe biden is just a front for the left to run the country with no friction for them, and you guys always have solid original content.
Claiming 2.5 lb as the lowest most gunsmiths will go with triggers in hunting rifles? You must be kidding. Thats just atrociously high... Just as a comparison; 2.5 lb is quite literally the highest the factory trigger on my Sauer 404 can be set to. And I currently have it set at a crisp "breaks like glass" 1.2lb. Not to mention the possibility and regular use of set triggers (that regularly break under 2oz) and specialised after-market fine-triggers (adjustable between around 3 oz up to 1.5 lb) for general hunting in Europe.
2 lbs of mushy, gritty trigger won't help your accuracy the same way as 5 lbs of short, crisp trigger. Weight is not the only factor and may not be the most important one.
Truth
Yeah having a very clear distinct wall to prep at before pulling the rest of the way through can be quite beneficial. Nothing worse than a spongy trigger with an ambiguous wall.
@@musicman1eanda Amen to that!
Thanks guys. Always great information to keep us safe and more arcuate. Take care and ⌚ your 6.......
Thank you!
I have a "Set" trigger on my flintlock and never use it. Here in the coal regions it is so rough you don't need one unless you are on a powerline. I can't imagine swinging on a moving deer with my finger on a super light trigger.
Just put a Jard set trigger in my Colt Target AR. Only had 1 trip to range but I'm liking it.
Totally agree with everything that was said.
I have to say that for decades I thought that a trigger could never be too light. Well, I have a Savage 6.5 Creedmoor that is insanely accurate from the factory and makes 1,000 yard shots almost too easy. It is crisp, it is smooth but straight from the factory it has a true hair trigger. I've been shooting for almost 50 years and I still have fired that rifle several times before I really wanted to. The trigger is adjustable and I am going to have to add a little bit to it. I still love a light trigger and feel it gives a shooter a more consistent shot, especially for target shooting. But as a retired LEO I will say that firing a round off when you weren't quite ready can have devastating, everlasting effects. I prefer a light trigger but there is such a thing as too light.
I got a timney 3lb single stage trigger on my ar15 and I love it to death
My brother has a muzzleloader with a stupidly light trigger. I do not recall what the weight is, but it is practically zero as far as I am concerned. When I went to shoot it for the first time it went off basically as I touched the trigger. Scared the hell out of me. I had no clue it was about to go off like that. When I took the second shot, it was the same thing but I was expecting it. And he was planning to hunt with it. Not sure if he ever did.
😲
The massive overall trend to lighter and lighter triggers especially on carry guns has long concerned me.
What! No synchronized coffee drink ?!
We will work with them on that.
We come for the coffee, but stay for information. (Truth is most of this is simply confirmation because it’s usually simple stuff, but there are gems hidden in some topics).
Thumbs up to the production team for reducing the background music, some of which is overbearing in other installments. I don't care for bgm in informational "table-side" formats, so this amount is much more enjoyable and personable.
I'll take a 5 lb trigger with a crisp, predictable break over one with a 2.5 lb mushy, vague break. The 2 types of breaks are apparent on 1911s and even Glocks. I've pulled some aftermarket Glock triggers that broke surprisingly crisp, and on the opposite end you have ones with connectors that just feel like... nothing. No wall, just mush until the break. Blegh. Wouldn't prefer that type of pull for either range fun or duty/defense.
Many aftermarket 3.5 connectors for Glocks make for creepy mushy breaks. I'd really rather keep the standard 5 pound connector than deal with that garbage.
Glock 19 apex trigger zev technologies connector and apex ultimate plunger. Took my mushy gritty stock tigger and make it a lot better.. also polished it all too
What’s the pull weight on Caleb’s hair?
Yep, y'all are 100% correct!
Thanks for watching!
My cousin used to love super light triggers on his hunting rifle. Now he nolonger buys his shoes in pairs.
Wish this was a joke.
Double action to single action is another excellent example of lighter isn't always better.
My carry gun, an Astra A-100 "Panther," (Spanish service pistol from the '90s) relies on the 12.5 lb double action to act as the safety, which is great, because it lets me carry hammer down (has a hammer bar and firing pin bar to ensure it's drop safe) with a round chambered and all I have to do is aim and shoot. After the first shot, or if I manually cock the hammer, the trigger moves way back, and becomes a super crisp 2.5 lb trigger with a short reset.
So in that case, a very heavy DA trigger is a great thing as it allows safe carry but also immediate access to firing if you need it, and the accuracy you suffer doesn't really matter because if you need to act so fast you don't have time to cock the hammer, your target is no doubt so dang close a bit of heavy trigger jerk isn't gonna cause a miss. Also looks really good in court, because it helps solidify your claim that your trigger pull was deliberate because you were indeed that convinced your life was in imminent danger that you had to consciously exert nearly 13 pounds with your finger to shoot. Also prevents the prosecutor from claiming it was a negligent discharge, calling your firearm competence into question.
Always, no. Different situations require different solutions.
I agree smoother is better than just lighter
Same!
People say the trigger on my Tokarev has too much take-up and the pull is heavy, but that hasn't hurt my accuracy and I feel comfortable knowing that it will not fire before I intend it to. A heavier trigger on a pistol is the way to go for me. Good topic!
I love you guys once again very useful and gave me an other way to look at it. I was gonna have my ar's a trigger job done in them. But you gave me a few things to tjink about from the sounds of it i wpuld probably like a 3-4lb crisp trigger over a 2lb trigger.
Yall are doin great things here keep it up guys.
Simple and to the point.... I love it
Thanks for watching!
I would definitely agree. Lighter is not always better. I tested some trigger mods on the TC Compass, and at 2.5lbs, if the buttstock was struck from as little as a 6" drop, it will drop the firing pin. Using a combo of springs that brought it back up to 3.5lbs provided drop safety well over 2+ feet. I'll take that extra safety for a little more pull weight out in the field.
I love two stage triggers!
4.5lbs - 3.5/1
Geissele is my go to.
I personally shoot a mil spec trigger better than a Gucci ar trigger. With that said sill want to try a SSA or a SD-C trigger before writing off all Gucci triggers.
i have 2 m16a5 clones and they both have SD-E triggers in them and they have a pull feel of about 3 pounds weight. this is a 2 stage trigger design, i have found that lubing the crap out of the trigger during install and when you take it to the range will yield the best overall feel in terms of smoothness and pull weight feel.
Yes having the same trigger pull is great, all my AR have to same trigger CMC single stage.
Good move!
Not trigger pull as such but. I can watch at least one famous gun UA-camr who appears to use a trigger pull gauge at all sorts of angles.
In my mind I can see differences between most hinged triggers and the straight pull trigger on a 1911. Is there a guide for how to use a trigger pull gauge to avoid what I can best describe as the equivalent of cosine error? Which is what happens with a dial gauge in engineering you don't measure square to the plane in which you are trying to measure?
I've see some people pull almost downward on the trigger. No way its accurate like that. Needs to be straight back if possible.
Outside of the gun range, the only time my gun should be shot is in a self-defense situation, and in that situation I want my gun to go off right when I want it to.
We can all say we practice perfect trigger discipline, but no amount of practice will ever let you know how you'll actually handle a life or death situation. If you are scared for the safety of your family after waking up to sounds in your house at 2am, you might very well not practice good trigger discipline in that moment. And it would be a crying shame for the slight tremble in your finger to send a bullet off at an unintended target.
I have always hated the modern day gun safety procedure. In the old days you had a decent trigger pull and you had to purposely pull the trigger. A lot of people blame poor accuracy on a fine trigger.
Light triggers are great, but I like the challenge of heavy triggers. Especially a smooth S&W double action with no grit or bumps
Another challenge is a heavy mosin nagant trigger that's heavy and has a lot of travel
@@JW--dc8ri heavy? The mosin trigger is the most elegant out there. 4 stages of gritty creep, and a 10 pound break. Russian craftsmanship at its finest.
my new 3 oz trigger is awesome, the the only problem is the gun goes off every time I set it down.
It sounds like a benchrest trigger. You're not supposed to pick it up.
My dad's old Thompson Arms .45 cal muzzle loading black powder rifle has an interesting setup I just don't seem to see on modern guns. It has 2 triggers, the front one being your normal trigger, and I think it's 4-5 pounds. However, it has a tandem "hair trigger" behind it, and if I remember correctly, to use it, you need to pull the hammer back one extra stage, which sets the hair trigger. At that point, you can literally blow on the trigger and it'll fire. It's adjustable with a screw, I think, to set the sensitivity, but even at the heavy end I think it's only 1 pound. Pretty cool system, extremely effective, but you do need to mind your environment as on the lightest setting, a gust of wind can set it off when the hair trigger is set.
Or so I'm told. I've never fired it myself, and only know what he told me about it.
I actually tracked it down once, well, a .50 caliber version (my dad's is .45). This is what it looks like. The seller of this one estimates the hair trigger is about 2 to 3 oz.
www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/555/1/AAT-280
GREAT topic and video gentlemen. You both do damn good work. 👍👍
I was raised shooting factory triggers and that's what's comfortable to "me".
Thanks for watching!
When, I built my first AR-15. I matched the trigger weight to the trigger weight of my carry handgun. A USP .45 Expert. Both the single action on the USP and the trigger on my AR have a 3.5 lb pull.
I've got a CZ SP01 Competition that I built into a race gun, I got the pull weight down to 1.8 pounds and friggin love the thing, but the thought of using that gun for duty or carry use scares me, it is _very_ easy to unintentionally pull a trigger that light and short (it's a SAO flat trigger with only .050" thou of total trigger travel, and only has .012" thousandths of take-up before hitting the wall, and only requires .002" thou of pull to fire after that, it is _touchy_ AF), there are definitely reasons to use and want a light trigger in a firearm but the use case must be analyzed before going too light. A competition or range toy can have as light a trigger as you can safely handle, but a combat or duty weapon needs an extra margin of added safety, if you trip and fall or drop your gun for whatever reason you dont want to shoot yourself or someone you're not aiming at, and a stiff trigger will definitely help prevent that, my carry guns are worked over to provide the maximum smoothness and crispness possible without altering their pull weight, there are lots of ways to improve a trigger pull without making it lighter, a little polishing of the sear, hammer catches, striker leg, whatever type of gun you have can be made smoother with a more crisp break without taking pounds off the pull to maintain safety.
Got my EDC Glock 43 trigger with a swapped out Johnny Glock carry trigger and the results on the range have been amazing and the trigger is still at 4.5-5.2 pull weight . Love it.
Fellows, THANKS for this excellent video.
I hope this comment will assist some viewers. One of my best autoloaders is a Kahr K-4044. It’s an all stainless, DAO (double action only), .40 S&W, with Lother-Walther hammer forged, polygonal 3.5 inch barrel. Many polymer frame Kahrs have reportedly had a few problems, but their all stainless “Elite” series semiautomatics are really superb.
Because thus firearm has no safeties (other than a firing pin block), it has a LONG trigger pull that breaks at about 6.5 pounds. BUT - and here’s the key point - that trigger pull is incredibly smooth. Very much like an excellent, hand fitted, revolver in double action, the Kahr’s trigger pull smooth, entirely non-gritty and has no stacking. This means a constant steady pull to a clean, crisp break, and it is possible due to Kahr’s patented cocking cam system that provides a trigger stroke unsurpassed in smoothness, even by custom pistols
So, 6.5 pounds is not a light trigger . . . HOWEVER, the length and the weight of the pull act as a safety for this DAO firearm AND the smoothness of the pull enables excellent accuracy despite its weight and length.
On a personal note, are you two father and son? Could easily pass for it if not.
Hahaha No.
I have never seen a 1911 with a trigger job that didn't have hammer follow, double taps with one trigger pull, dropping to half cock, thumb safety doesn't prevent hammer from dropping to half cock notch
not too many good gunsmiths. I don't trust trigger jobs at all and don't like them
If I make a trigger system for a sniper rifle for example, I would make a 2 stage trigger, when the first travel should be light, the second stage a heavy but short and crisp pull
My range and competition triggers i run geissele. My home defense has probably 5 1/2 to 6 lbs regular trigger.
I'm not going to lie, I'm loving the lighter trigger weight of the timney triggers I put in my glock 45 and 23. A 3lb trigger is sweet
My father's rifle chambered in 22lr, the trigger is so light on it, it can go off just by touching it, it's a Springfield model 82...
Is there any difference in the trigger pull weight for an empty chamber and a chamber with a round in it? Are these two different numbers?
Great information as always. Personally, I have never considered having trigger work done. I hunt for the table, not the trophy and only go to a range if I have a new firearm to train on. My AR's are factory original FN and Colt, and they work fine as is. All my hunting rifles I have been shooting for more than 10 seasons and I am very familiar with each. Yes, I am a Fudd who does not feel the need to improve on the excellent firearms I own.
My favourite race gun is a Bushmaster all mall ninja’d for competition. The trigger is stock but smooth at slightly more then 5.5lbs. And I shoot open and unlimited so I can have almost anything I want. (I’m usually in the top 1/3rd of competitors).
@Jbog07 Thank you very much for the encouragement. I support and defend the constitution of the United States 100%. I have taught several of my neighbors that are first time AR owners safety, manual of arms, immediate action drills and basic marksmanship. They have come from the liberal left to the middle (mostly) but all are now understanding and accepting that there is a time and a place for legal firearms ownership.
I keep my weapons with factory triggers.
Nothing wrong with modifying one I just learn to shoot what I own.
Try a fully hardened trigger group for an ar that's been properly polished and cleaned up. Same weight same springs still mil spec design and I think you will find out that you shoot a lot better with a nice clean stack and break with more consistent feel and performance. I agree that a tricked out expensive drop in trigger is unnecessary but clean polished parts that meet at break cleanly and predictably feel better, work better and most importantly shrink groups making training and hunting more effective. just my .02
@@charlesgargotta23 That is a sensible approach, thank you. Can you offer any examples of these please?
I agree. You often hear old school instructors say you want the shot to “surprise” you. I absolutely disagree with that. Every shot should be 100% intentional and break exactly when you intend it to. This is why I prefer a crisp single stage trigger. 2 1/2 lbs is ideal for me, but even at that weight, you need to be sure the trigger job is done 100% correctly. I’ve had to correct geometry on “drop in” triggers that pull that low because they were unsafe. Some, I’ve had to scrap. I’d recommend for most people not to go below 4 lbs on a practical gun (hunting, self defense, duty, etc.). Lighter than that only for target or “game” guns.
The shot "surprising" you thing is more a way of teaching someone to have a more smooth, uniform trigger pull rather than clamping down suddenly like you're trying to choke someone out. I think the intention is moreso about teaching new shooters the basics of shooting accurately rather than talking about the feel of the trigger pull itself. Picking up on trigger break is more something that comes with time.
You don’t want the gun to go off don’t pull the trigger. It’s as simple as keeping your finger off the trigger until you’re ready to shoot. Take it from someone who shot them self
What rifle set up is the one in the table?
I'm building a couple AR platform rifles for my children, what trigger would you recommend? I already have one CMMG lower parts Kit. Thank You
i like PSA EPT triggers.
palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar15-pa10-enhanced-polished-trigger.html
and when you're pushing the trigger and hammer pins through just use a pair of leather work gloves and use a old copper penny to push the pin through.
wiggle while you push.
just make sure the holes are lined up.
no need for a hammer or a punch.
congrats on thinking ahead for your kids.
That depends mostly on the price range, there are many good trigger manufacturers out there for the AR platform now days! CMMG, CMC, Timney, Elftmann, Geissele, the list goes on and as long as you stick to a reputable brand, there are no wrong choices. In the end, the choice will come down to personal preference.
@@CalebSavant Thank you
@@ProthoPectore I will definitely look into that trigger. Thank you
@@TheGaryxis you're welcome.
Aieee...lighter better? NO
What i want in a trigger is smooth, consistent pull. What i don't want is something that's too light, doesn't break consistently, or feels rough. Too long a pull is also problematic.
Basically I want consistent and repeatable.
What is the lights trigger weight most Gunsmiths with not go below on a striker pistol?
Comment
I tried a 3.5 connector in my carry gun (G19). Problem is, about once every magazine, I would end up with an involuntary double-tap......EFF THAT.
There is much variation in a trigger depending on purpose just like a hammer one hammer is not perfect for every job it is a tool after all. For instance I've never shot a GLOCK with a good trigger but their some (few that I've seen) that can make a crisp clean trigger on a glock.
I'm good with mill spec on my ARs
It doesn’t matter what lbs the trigger is if it’s full auto
Usually the the guy that can’t shoot a lick that has to have a 2 lb trigger
The leader of NFAC informed me that I don't need a trigger at all. All I have to do is get the bolt to move forward. What a clown....
Why cant you guys get the volume correct?
Thank you gents ! 2.5 #s
what rifle is that sitting on the table?
Heavy triggers ❤
AWESOME REACTION
To avoid that oopsie...
What stock is that
Over 30 yrs behind triggers, multiple scenarios (deer stand rest, field, daily carry, etc.), and i have never adjusted one single trigger.
As a wise man said if you learn how to use what you have you'll do fine enough. Nine times out of ten the shooter is the greatest source of variables in the firing equation.
over 40 yrs behind triggers and experience in multiple scenarios in the field myself...and i say adjust your trigger to get it the way you like it.. to get the best out of yourself.. me personally.. i like it light trigger but with safety in mind.. hence alot of practice and testing to get my perfect setting for my intended use and making sure the firearm is safe with a light trigger... i think the ppl in this vid are talking shit when they say its a myth that a light trigger is no good... a light trigger is always better.. specially when accuracy is needed... and also there is a science behind it to.. to why lighter is better.. the problem is with alot of these guys is they get scared.. and they dont think ahead of what possible problems can occur with a light trigger or how to manage a light trigger in different situations... the lighter trigger always gives you more accuracy but can also be dangerous.. and i get that.. hence alot of testing and practicing and getting yourself right before taking a light trigger into the field.. i understand not all scenarios need a light trigger and thats absolutely fine...as i only lighten the triggers on bolt actions single shot rifles.. not on rifles like AR's... as theres no need to.. as they are never going to be accurate as a bolt action nor are semi auto pistols... maybe on a single action revolver purely for the pull and accuracy.. in the 30 yrs of you using firearms "Chance"... if you have never adjusted your triggers. how would you know if having a lighter trigger is better or not for you?... no disrespect.. but you have wasted your 30 yrs of shooting if you have never tried different adjustments to get the best out of your ability and the best out of your rifles possiblities.
@@silverbackdp , thank you. I may try it on one or my deer rigs this year. The newer 700s are 'user adjustable', so it might give it a try.
3.5!
My hunting 22 is 10 oz. My deer/varmint gun is about 1.5 lbs. My crossbow is about 3 lbs. They have no creep and break like glass. Most people say they are scary light.
A heavy trigger induces more movement when it breaks than a light one. I like my triggers clean and crisp, a total surprise every time.
And keep yer dang finger off the trigger! I always open the bolt and clear a gun before handing it to someone. You would not believe the number of people who put their finger on the trigger before they have a grip on the gun!
Or something can snag that trigger when you least expect it. Hair triggers or light aftermarket triggers can get shooters into trouble. Some modified triggers are so light just breathing on it can set it off. Clearly that is not safe. I agree. A smooth pulling clean breaking trigger is better than a light or hair trigger. There is a reason manufacturers design their stock triggers the way they do and this is why. So the trigger functions safely and properly. Thanks for sharing.
My regular deer rifle is a sporterized Spanish 7mm M98 Mauser, with the original trigger.
It has a bit of take-up, but a very crisp & consistent (6 pound) break. I regularly get 5 out of 5 rounds into a two and a half inch circle at one hundred yards, (which about the farthest you can see in the dense undergrowth down here).
The only work that's been done to the trigger, is when I (very carefully!) polished the mating surfaces of the sear & striker. And I keep it lightly oiled.
I've never lost an injured deer or hog, when hunting.
So these guys are right, if you know your firearm, and practice with it, you can make whatever trigger it's got, work for you.
I thought having nice low pull weights on my glocks would be cool. Replaced stock springs, trigger, striker spring. Ended up going back to the stock springs
I have to agree. I bought JP low power springs for my milspec trigger to bring the weight down. It was a lighter trigger (~3lbs down from ~6lbs) but it made the whole thing feel *really* mushy. Couldn't stand it, so I put the full power springs back in.
Many years ago, my mate and I swapped rifles, but I didn't realise just how light he'd made the trigger. That was not a pleasant experience, it was lightened to the point of being dangerous.
After a finger injury I can’t feel pressure on my finger so I can’t tell if it’s a good or very good trigger anymore... if I don’t have to strain to pull it, it’s good to go. That being said I can still notice a gritty trigger with creep.
True Story! Please make more Videos like that. Greetings from Austria
Single stage or a regular Mil spec trigger with reduced power springs is a pretty good setup. I’ve shot with those Hiperfire Eclipse triggers and man, they’re too light!
Please add the model of the guns on the table in the description you guys have alot of nice ones especially this time !
In my opinion, as long as there is a good clean break, the weight of a trigger isn't as noticeable.
Practice makes permanent
Perfect practice makes perfect
Dang, I want that rifle.
Same.
I have an Apex "flatty" on my M&P 2.0. I put the heaviest set up possible with it and its 5 lbs but crisp with no over travel. I like it but im still not sure I want it for carry yet. Hopefully after a thousand rounds and a thousand dry fires I gain confidence....If not , I will put my old trigger back in it.
Good thought!
I've shot competition rifles since the 70's. My current 40X in 22lr is set at 7oz, my hunting rifles around 24oz. That being said, everyone differs on preferences.
The main thing is to get that range time in to maximize whatever you decide is best for your needs.
Yep! Time on the range matters most!
I think too often a lighter trigger is used as a crutch, and it's always the first thing someone wants to throw in an AR. A decent milspec trigger isn't actually that bad, and they usually will start to break in within 200 rounds. Build that finger strength and learn how that trigger feels as an extension of yourself. Get intimate with your shot process.
It's also possible to have a crappy light trigger and a really good heavy one. Smoothness of pull and crispness of break matter much more than the spring weight itself, and when you're only relying on spring weight for a trigger press, you'll soon find your weapon won't function well or will only detonate Federal primers.
Good points.
People who complain about triggers most likely haven't learned to properly pull a trigger yet.
I like a 1.5 or less trigger pull you mean to tell me that with gloves on you have know idea about 24oz you just might need a Dr
👍👍🇺🇸🙏
Love you guys. Keep it up.
Thank you!
Trigger control, not trigger weight is what determines accuracy.
What is a “service AR?”
Obviously no such thing. But since they can look like service rifles and can fit most of those parts......
An AR to be used in service type situations, whether that be LE or Mil., they are setup for more rugged use.
I keep saying this and I’ll keep saying this: Joe biden is just a front for the left to run the country with no friction for them, and you guys always have solid original content.
Claiming 2.5 lb as the lowest most gunsmiths will go with triggers in hunting rifles? You must be kidding. Thats just atrociously high...
Just as a comparison; 2.5 lb is quite literally the highest the factory trigger on my Sauer 404 can be set to. And I currently have it set at a crisp "breaks like glass" 1.2lb. Not to mention the possibility and regular use of set triggers (that regularly break under 2oz) and specialised after-market fine-triggers (adjustable between around 3 oz up to 1.5 lb) for general hunting in Europe.
First
Lit trigger on a hunting rife is good a 2.6 pounds my fave pellet gun a single stage trigger is set at 3/4s of a pound
2 stage triggers are trash