I can second this, also road markings are sometimes neglected to a level where they are completely missing, and even if you approach in the correct lane, half way through the roundabout you find yourself in the middle of an ocean of tarmac with no lane markings or arrows, and if it is not a familiar one you are not in a good situation. When I have to go take unfamiliar routes, I always carefully study the big roundabouts that I am to use, and even with that I sometimes find myself in a difficult situation. My own personal rule is that if I position myself badly and I am forced to take the wrong exit, I simply take it, it is always a relatively small detour, OR you can go round the roundabout and try again if you are in a position to do so, more than once if need be.
@@nikolaydachev8099 Agreed. The Hermiston Gait roundabout on the western side of Edinburgh is a prime example of this where the lane markings are scuffed off to the point of being invisible for drivers heading out of the retail park / industrial estate. It also includes a confusing left-turn filter system that only applies to drivers who are turning left and heading to the Calder Roundabout, NOT to drivers turning left and merging onto the bypass. The result? Drivers who are unfamiliar with the lane-layout being all over the place and local drivers blaring horns and shouting abuse at them.
All the time! Literally the only thing that helps me in these situations is having my satnav. If I know I'm travelling somewhere unfamiliar, you bet 100% I'll have that bloody satnav running!
I think one lesson to be learned here is that, just because you know how to negotiate these roundabouts, never assume everyone else does. Always keep an eye on what those around you are doing and be ready to adapt.
I always get people telling me they dont understand switch island so I do give everyone a wide berth.... it is fun watching people attempt to negotiate it like headless chickens
And that's the problem, always modifying for those that will continue to make the same errors time and time again until they cause a crash with someone who isn't driving defensively and increases the chances of a serious incident. Sometimes I feel like letting them crash into me because that would seem to be the only way these reckless numpties will learn.
@@zhuurst7149 honestly don't care if car is written off, other party will be at fault so I'll be claiming any losses from them. Pricks driving like pricks sometime need to be taught a hard lesson so they wise up.
I've just had an idea: Disguise unmarked police cars as driving school cars. This would be a great way of training drivers to treat driving school cars with more care, as well as picking up a few bullies on the road and giving them a reminder that they aren't above the rules.
Same overtaking on a roundabout shouldn't be aloud, would stop so many accidents. Right turn only lane cars going straight on is a common problem and they always seem to bomb it when they do
I was always told "No Overtaking on Roundabouts ".... At all.. Some see roundabouts as an opportunity to get in front of others.... and to me, this is the biggest problem. Its very annoying too.
@@TimpBizkit ... The painted lines within modern roundabout configurations should never have been introduced...... because,. If someone is infront of you, ahead of you, they should have priority.... also if you are local to the Roundabout, you know the Configuration of that roundabout,... first timers don't.... It's all so very wrong.
Same here.. I am a new driver, driving only 2 months. In my area and around the test centre where I passed the driving test is no such roundabouts. I know only basic skills about the roundabouts. So for me multilane roundabouts are hard to deal with. I didn't have many yet in my short experience but on each of them I did mistakes because they look so confusing. So usually I am avoiding to go somewhere further just because I am afraid of these types of roundabouts.
same here, been driving a year and a half where i've had one spiral roundabout that i learnt in order to get to the maccies and kfc... it always feels like each spiral roundabout is so different? i don't think one person understands where they're going in the ventura retail park one. i'm living in notts currently and one spiral roundabout you have to move into the right hand lane halfway through to ensure you can take the fourth exit like does that not defeat the purpose of a spiral roundabout? i thought the whole point was that you get into your lane and it pushes you towards your exit seamlessly, not changing lanes?
I’ve been studying aerial pictures of several on Google maps, to try to come up with a system that works for all of them, but they are generally all different, there’s no consistency. All a tutorial would do is say look for the road markings, but they are generally faded or obscured. I think they are just a badly thought out concept that may work fine for 70% of the driving public, but not 100%
My take away from this is on a multi lane roundabout, keep a car distance length between me and the cars in other lanes and expect them to cut me up lol
I learned to drive in New Zealand. Our multilane roundabouts have much clearer lane markings (lanes on the circulating carriageway are for exits, not entries). When I moved back to the UK in 2018, I really, really struggled with multi lane roundabouts. Often they are very poorly marked with no advance warning for which lane you need on approach.
I am from NZ and moved to the UK about a year ago and completely agree! Multi-lane roundabouts and poor lane markings have the been hardest adjustments for me
The spiral roundabout, first introduced in Staffordshire over ten years ago. The offside lane nearly always spirals out to the near side, confusion reigns. We have loads of these by me, one where it doesn’t make sense ( pretty much all of them). I had it changed by Staffs council twice, then they redesigned it, now they’ve redesigned it again and it’s worse than before. Near misses galore, total confusion. Road marking( arrows do not line up with the what it says on the sign or on the lanes. I have pointed it out again to Staffs council and I’ve informed them that if I get involved in a RTC then I will hold them responsible for the irresponsible design. There’s plenty like it about, totally misleading and downright dangerous! The county council are responsible for your health and safety concerning road signs, marking etc. Cheers Ash glad you bought this up!
Problem is that on a UK roundabout, missing an exit (things like this happen) means risking an accident of which you'd be at fault. In Europe, it is highly recommended to leave the roundabout using the outside lane only. Lorries even exclusively use the outside lane, whichever the exit they intend to take, to avoid a car seeking its way in their blind spot. Sometimes I do find , that these roundabouts are overly complicated : reading all these prints on the roads (sometimes with abreviations or road names only) can be difficult to people who don't know the area - let alone at night, when it is rainy, or congested .
but that often means cutting across the path of other traffic. i have cycled all the way around a roundabout in the left lane once and it was terrifying, as people desperately tried to move left from the right hand lane
@@supremeleader9838 it doesn’t in Europe because people are only meant to leave the roundabout from the outside lane. Lorries and cyclists are in trouble in the uk if, say they are uncertain of their exit (it can happen if you don’t know the area). I never felt safe cycling on a big roundabout in the uk when the correct lane is in the middle of the roundabout…
The fact that dealing with these multi-lane roundabouts isn't widely taught means timid drivers opt to go round in the nearside lane even when they intend to leave at three o' clock. Add in the impatient ones who always opt for the outside lane and drive too fast, and it's always going to end in tears. I rarely have problems with them, but I do read the signs carefully!
A46, M40, A429. Biggest problem here is lack of indicators from the people I suspect were in the wrong lane. I can get in the correct lane on an approach to a roundabout but on some roundabout's can easily lose which lane you need to be in when on the roundabout.
Thanks for the video Ashley, got my test in 2hrs in Chesterfield (with plenty of spiral roundabouts) so this video was perfectly timed to make sure I know what to look out for!
@@ashley_neal I passed!! I only got two driving faults for going 30 in a 40 but other then that the examiner said it was a good drive. Thanks for the videos they really helped me out and I’ll make sure to continue watching and learning from them!
Luckily for me my driving instructor put me on that King's Lynn Hardwick roundabout that was on this video, all the time. But i do agree this is an issue, and we have to address that passing the test isn't just the only thing to worry about, we have to make sure the learner is confident to be able to learn on their own afterwards having the experience and information they need.
The order in lane two from bottom to top should be - A46 M40 A429 Sometimes badly maintained road markings on busy rbts adds to the confusion. Helpful video thanks
I agree, after looking at Google maps www.google.co.uk/maps/place/M40/@52.2606442,-1.6111577,14.75z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x4876e09f0954bbc3:0x59b6c684b8af5596!8m2!3d52.3473166!4d-1.8199511 before looking at these comments, that would have been my answer too.
Is there a rule that states that the markings should be in the order of the exits? Because if not then I can make the argument that the order that it is painted on the road actually makes sense to me... most important direction from the right lane is the M40 (if you want to go on the motorway you have to take that lane), the next direction where most of the traffic goes to from that lane is across continuing their journey on the A46 (but this if a second lane that you can take to that so it isn't the most important direction) and finally you can go on a much smaller road that is not that often used by the traffic coming from this direction as the previous two. Same logic works on the left lane (I do read from top to bottom... so furthest marking is the first row of information. I think most people do this; but I do not know for sure) most important direction for the traffic is the A46 (as this is the primary lane leading to that direction) and then you can also take the smaller B road on the left from that lane. On the other hand I can argue that both lanes lead straith across so they should begin with the A46 marking and then have the directions that turn away from the A46 listed after the main road marking... Don't know... either order would work for me in this case. And it definitely shows that the left lane does not lead to the motorway. Just realized that I figured out, while writing this, that the markings on the left lane aren't in the order of exits either; or you have to read then from bottom to top... in that case right lane markings should have A429, M40, A46 (from top to bottom)... now that is an order I don't agree with 😜. I just answered my own question I think. 😂
@@attilapuskas I also tried to find anywhere which says this order is *the* order but couldn't. If it were anywhere, I think it would at least be in the "Traffic Signs Manual - Chapter 5 - Road Markings" under 9.2 "Lane Destinations" but there is no mention of the order which destinations should be written. I think if there were an order then it should be that the first marking in reading order, i.e. the furthest away marking, ought to correspond to the earliest exit. I think it's quite possible to come with these explanations if you think carefully about driving as Ashley does, even when they don't correspond to the actual regulations. I thought there was something a bit similar in discussions of the exit at a roundabout which is a "continuation of the road" (can't remember which video(s) that was in) and the implications this has for the choice of lane. I am fairly certain that this is irrelevant, and everything Ashley described follows purely from the ordinary rules of roundabouts (give way to the whole roundabout, stay in your lane unless you deliberately and safely change).
I feel that just regular roundabout discipline is falling too. And I think this lack of awareness - or probably even lack of caring - by some translates directly onto spiral/marked roundabouts as they just follow the same routine regardless of what is happening around them.
They've changed the layout of the College Rd roundabout in Rotherham 3x in 10 years. Latest costing £5million. It's just as bad as its always been. Plus driving standards at the moment are appalling. I think lockdown has melted peoples brains.
I’ve been learning to drive for the last couple of months and soon be taken my test, but we’ve been working with these types of a roundabouts for the last couple of lessons. And the mistakes I’ve seen while doing them is unbelievable. I happy my instructor has help me learn how to use them.
An interesting video which has appeared a couple of days after I made a complete pig's ear of one of my least favourite roundabouts, the one where the A12 joins the M25. Because of two motorway closures my sat nav re-routed me to an exit I had never used before and I managed to get into the wrong lane. In addition, the road markings were very worn and partially illegible, and for some reason there was an empty and stationary police car in one of the lanes, with ambiguous flashing go right arrows; did these mean "don't drive over the top of me", or "don't take the next exit"? I didn't take the next exit, which turned out to be the one I needed, and found myself in a dedicated next exit lane for the following exit. The mantra that "if you miss your exit" just go round again isn't easy if you are in a dedicated next exit lane. Fortunately, following vehicles were sufficiently aware to allow me to extricate myself. In my view, some roundabouts really are confusing unless you have local knowledge, and I always try to assume that each and every driver on a complex roundabout may be as confused as I sometimes am, and are making a genuine mistake, rather than being cynically opportunistic or lazy.
All roundabouts have markings... The rule I've always followed and never had a problem with is if you're crossing a marking, you're potentially crossing into the path of another vehicle. Check your mirrors and blind spot before you move. This works regardless of Spiral or Gyratory roundabouts. People will get them mixed up, to be honest until recently I'd never heard either term and I've been driving for 10 years. Yet I've never had an incident like that.
Plenty of near misses but no accidents because I drive staggered rather than next to another car; your first cammer was in that stagger initially but as the other car slowed they should have slowed too so as not to get parallel.
I could've shouted seeing it happen, cautious driver with the pull off, keeping in a safe spot around the roundabout and then at the real pinch point goes into the danger zone.
Not sure on the road marking question, but road signs have the most important hazard at the top if there’s multi hazards coming up in a short space. 1 humpback bridge, 2 zebra/ school crossing , 3 crossroads all on same pole. I can find no entry in any books relating to driving where spirals etc are mentioned, and like you say, learners have no idea as do most drivers. Lichfield test centre complained and would not use the spiral due to misleading road signs and markings. I and other instructors helped them out with the arguments, the roundabout in question was changed within a week or so.
Fun fact. I failed a driving test on a multi-lane roundabout like these. Still get a bit of anxiety when I pass the spot. I seem to remember someone was in the wrong lane, swerved in front of me and because the examiner had to take the wheel it was a fail... 10 years ago and I still remember I only got 5 minors, too!
There's a new one near me, totally inadequately marked, the arrows and markings are so close to the traffic lights that if there's a few cars waiting when you approach you can't see what lane you should be in, there are no other signs, it's rediculous. I continually have to take pre-evasive action as people just go anywhere and are not totally to blame. I think, as always take your time, give yourself space.
I disagree. You said, "Follow the arrows." I paused the video at 2:21 and I see an arrow pointing to the right. I would have assumed I had to go right at that moment. In order to go straight, he would have had to cut across two lanes of traffic, which is what you are saying is the correct thing to do. I'm so glad we don't have very many of these death-circles in the US. And if the road markings are wrong, then I put the blame squarely 100% on the road engineers, not any of the motorists.
I mean regardless of what lane you're supposed to be in, constant observations are a must. They were basically clueless to each other positions and drove straight into each other. That's the more alarming part in my perspective.
Very true - but there are far too many roundabouts, and sadly it seems to be an increasing trend with new layouts, which are far from clear on approaching for the first time ever which is going to impact the quality of observation of all but the best drivers. So many new layouts seem to either be least effort implementation or designed by someone in an office to min/max throughput without much thought for the experience of a driver approaching them for the first time.
@@Rroff2 What there are are far too many distracted drivers. I don't know where on earth he was looking to have not picked that car up in his peripheral vision. He hasn't learned that other drivers cannot be trusted to be doing the correct thing and you simply have to be constantly checking what they are up to. I went around an enormous (and new to me) roundabout 4 times last month - I just didn't know what the hell was going on and there were so many exits I kept on missing the one I wanted.
@@hansiesma16 Talking about distracted drivers - I've noticed a few times lately what seems to be people using adaptive cruise control to sit on my tail on dual carriageways while their attention seems to be elsewhere :( talking on the phone, eating or fiddling with makeup kind of stuff. How people can be that dumb to think it is acceptable I have no idea.
@@Rroff2 Yeah honestly I don't know how talking on the phone whilst driving ever got made legal. As for applying makeup - it's terrifying. Watching these videos gives you the impression that it's really bad out there but my reality is that I am generally impressed by the driving on the roads in my area. Most of the stuff on here I have never even seen happening on the roads - fingers crossed....
As someone who was trained and tested as a driver in another country, when I moved to the UK I would plan trips through Google Maps/Earth and look up all the new things I could see before going to a new place. I got unbelievable amount of abuse from other drivers for trying to go where the road markings on multi-lane roundabouts said I could go from the lane I was in. I would not have made that turn with that Toyota there, you don't generally want to be exiting on the right lane of a road anyway. I would've slowed and gotten behind it or, if condition didn't allow for this (e.g. your usual right lane proton-distance bumper riders) I would've just gone round once.
Maybe compulsory refresher training for a couple of hours every few years would make the roads safer for everyone, covering new things that we never learned in our own tests. I consider myself (as most of us do) to be a “good” driver, but having passed my test 40 years ago and now at the ripe old age of 58, I fully acknowledge that a lot has changed including the proliferation of multi lane roundabouts. I have always negotiated them safely without being taught the rules, but this clip has helped with the very simple rule explaining that you can’t go beyond the last destination marked in your lane as you join the roundabout. Since watching Ashley’s videos I have certainly adapted various parts of my driving and consider myself better informed than I was six months ago. “Nice job” Ashley.👍
Beechcliffe Roundabout. Multi-lane roundabouts are a design mess. They do not fit in with the psychology of drivers. Signs painted on the road may or may not be seen as there may be traffic masking them. Road signs in another lane do not apply to the lane a car is in, so it is unreasonable to expect the white car to look at the sign in the lane to the right (although a good driver would). In this example the destinations/waypoints are written as abbreviations for Halifax, Keighley and Skipton, and Bfd rather than the full names, so any non-local might be confused. The white car was so confused it wanted to double back and go back down Hard Ings Road. It is interesting to note that there is a plan to "improve" Hard Ings Road and install traffic signals at entry to the roundabout. If they do not improve lane markings it will worsen the situation. The next example doesn't bother with destination lane marking, but road numbers. I once knew somebody who was a repository (or should that be suppository) for road numbers, and could reel off a route using them. When I drive I navigate by waypoints - so I look out for the intermediate place names. Road numbers mean nothing and just confuse me. 6:00 That is commonplace at the Portway Island ("Oiland" in local speak). A major contributor problem is traffic lights. I suggest that the lights reset the driver's mind, and that they see the roundabout from that point on as the major road, and the A435/Alcester Road as being the turnoff. Lights on roundabouts are a menace. At the end of that clip is shown another bit of bad design - two lanes coming off the roundabout and instantly merging into one, just before joining traffic from the M42. It was near here that Mike Hailwood, motorcycle and F1 champion, died in an accident. The cammer didn't show the entry to the roundabout, but many cars turn off down Forshaw Heath Lane (the first exit southbound from Alcester Road) when the want the M42 Eastbound (2nd exit). Drivers struggle with simple two-lane roundabouts, but add another lane and it becomes a Herculean mental task for many. Add illegible lane markings, and the occasional traffic light, and accidents are certain to happen. When entitled road users, familiar with the road layout, are mixed with those struggling with unfamiliar markings . . . This is a problem where road designers fail us.
Agree with all of this. If many users of the system are struggling, there’s a problem with the system. The layouts aren’t consistent. Knowing one large roundabout won’t help with another. There’s little to no advance guidance on lanes (none far enough in advance to actually help).. People don’t want to process too much information, particularly at speed. It’s not laziness; the mind will want to take a short cut, especially if tired after two hours on a motorway. Roundabouts needs to be simple and intuitive and allow for a good shared understanding of the rules. We don’t have that. I rarely see problems for the first exit if it’s to the left. Why? Simple - pretty much everyone expects to be in the left lane and it’s no problem. The large roundabouts also don’t fit in with modern methods of navigation. Writing “Ring road” or “city” (or “Halifax”) may be utterly irrelevant to me. I’m trying to figure out from a small screen what the satnav wants me to do while keeping the car safe. I don’t really know whether I’m passing through Skipton. I might be going somewhere 50 miles away. I also think we should stop using the term “roundabout” for both these large roundabouts and the traditional roundabouts. They’re very different beasts with very different ways of working. Perhaps we need to specifically teach “complex circular junctions” and ensure they have a dedicated section in the Highway Code. At the moment it’s a mess.
Greta video, thanks to the viewer four sending them in, I myself don’t have to do many of these types of roundabouts but but know that a lot of people have issues with them elsewhere
6:12 this is in my town, and this particular part of the roundabout is notorious for cars getting pushed down the embankment where the crash barrier is. Probably seen 3 accidents here in the past year alone, I presume caused by drivers running the lights and hitting cars coming off the slip road to the left. But after seeing this clip I guess with enough speed a situation like the one shown in this video could "pit maneuver" a vehicle down the verge too.
The big problem i find is that even if you know the roundabout 100%, and can navigate it flawlessly, there are still so many near misses that are beyond your control because people around you keep getting it wrong.
As someone who was brought up about 100 metres from a motorway, I never realised people had such an issue with these types of roundabouts! I actually find mini roundabouts more stressful because everybody seems to forget to go around them!
@@antonycharnock2993 I think living by a motorway is also what has given me a love for acceleration, basically every time we went out we'd have a 0-60 run down the slip road!
Ahh wish I'd have seen this before I did the exact same thing the white Toyota did at the beginning today. Didn't lose my front bumper but nearly did. I don't have notifications turned on for any app whatsoever but I'll have to make an exception for Ashley's channel!
I’m confused why the Toyota was wrong though, the lane seems to be marked to go straight ahead, and also has an arrow pointing forwards? I’m afraid to say, but I probably would’ve done the same thing.
The message about road markings is on point, particularly at how just looking at arrows can make things confusing. I was a passenger in a friend's car the other day and she entered into a 3-lane roundabout using the middle lane for the second exit when I was certain she should have been in Lane 1. On not checking properly and nearly colliding with another car on the way out (and her getting angry and blasting the horn), I asked if she was sure she was in the correct lane. All she said was that "left lane had the left arrow, that *always* means first exit". This was of course ignoring the fact that the middle lane had a straight forward arrow with no left/right branch, which the signage indicated was the third exit. This was also backed up by the exits being written on the ground and all of the traffic in front of us in the left lane having used the second exit. It's that tendency to fixate on a single thing and ignore all the other cues around them. I can be pretty guilty of it sometimes, but I hope not to this extent.
In some parts of the UK multilane roundabouts are just not a regular thing, especially out in the sticks here in rural Cornwall where I learnt to drive. Also didnt help that my test centre was based in a town that also didn't have a single one. The nearest big set of spiral roundabouts is 30/40 mins away in Plymouth so lessons obviously weren't done there. I suppose I should have asked for driving lessons that focused on them but then that's the power of 20/20 hindsight.
Just brilliant yet again, but I'm puzzled to why anyone has or wants to put a thumbs down? As these are ment to help, educate and keep people safer on the roads!
I haven't finished the whole video but in the first case, the one for Skipton, I think the problem is that the arrows don't match the lines on the road. As a driver, all the signals should tell you the same thing but in this case the arrow for Skipton is telling you to cross a lane when it should tell you to follow a lane. I've seen other similar roundabouts and they have proper lines marking what you should do. I know that you have a bit of "line crossing", but you can see perfectly what they mean. In the case of the white Toyota, it would have lines to mark the lane that goes straight for the Skipton exit. Edit: Ah, watching a bit more, at 6:00 you have the example of the lines I commented before. Clearly there your lane goes towards the exit, as it should have been in the case with the white Toyota. In summary, yes, some people don't pay attention to road markings but sometimes they aren't clear enough, so if you add that to bad drivers, then incidents happen. I always try to exit from the left lane to avoid these problems and be aware of drivers at my left, where they must take an exit but sometimes they continue in the roundabout.
I'm booked in at a test centre that has a test route that uses many roundabouts, so I have had a lot of practice with my instructor on the run up to my test, so i feel a lot more confident when dealing with roundabouts now than when i first stated. Thanks for sharing as always Ashley. :)
Since about 2012, national guidance for roundabouts arrow markings is to never have a right hand arrow on an approach to a roundabout. Only Left & Ahead arrows allow. Then on the circular carriageway left, ahead & right arrows are to be used, with a right arrow to show to continue around a roundabout and the left/ahead to show to use the next exit (whichever is geometrically more correct). However this is only guidance and some roundabouts still show right arrows, especially if the old markings are only renewed. "Turbo roundabouts" make keeping to lane much more easier, and I wish we had more in the UK. Weirdly roundabouts with lane markings are better in the USA than they are here.
What's a "Turbo roundabout"? We've got an elongated roundabout/junction in my town of Rotherham near the (New York!) football stadium which replaced an older roundabout to improve traffic flow.
@@antonycharnock2993 Search in google images for "turbo roundabout" and you shall see. Its basically a roundabout with lanes, but the lanes are separated by a hatched area which keep people in their lanes as well as removing ambiguous areas at exits
I know the first roundabout well. Its only just been improved and converted to light control so that may have something to do with the confusion. Imagine what it was like before. Impatient drivers with massive queues at rush hour. This also happens a lot on my local college road spiral roundabout in Rotherham. I've had two close calls in the last few weeks.
I wasn't taught them 25+ years ago as well but I got over them by stopping thinking of them as roundabouts but rather just curvy bits of road with many junctions. This why I think some of the "left continuing round" are coming a cropper as they are treating this like a standard roundabout and are trying to go round the outside lane as you able to ( but not necessarily should) on the standard roundabout.
Would be great to hear from drivers like those we saw who were in the wrong lane, to hear what their thought processing was, what mindset or assessment they had made.
When I took my driving test 30 yes ago their was a new design spiral roundabout akin to this one I did it on the test and I passed . I was pleased they chose that route as it was a brand new roundabout that had been made into four lanes and there were lanes signs and arrows similar to this one .
Whenever there's a TWO lane exit to a roundabout, people in the right hand lane have issues. They get crashed into, people jump under them, so forth. Just don't plan roads with two exits to a roundabout. If your junction is that complex, build an underover, or have an actual junction.
There are 3 spiral roundabouts on the A500 which separates Stoke-on-Trent and Newcastle-under-Lyme that have big issues. One of the main causes of confusion is that the white lines were almost faded away. In the rain those lines and arrows were invisible making it harder to know which lane to get into.
I had the exact same collision on a multi-lane roundabout, where the person in the left lane decided to go all the way around the roundabout and exit where they entered, despite the lane marking and arrows, and despite common sense suggesting doing this in the left lane is crazy. Unfortunately for me, the case law Grace vs Tanner (2003) has set a precedent that a car that misses their exit will need to continue around the roundabout and that I should have anticipated the other road user not taking their exit. To me, that's an absolutely shocking decision when you have multiple lanes and clear marked arrows. The police that happened upon my accident were in complete agreement it was the other party who were responsible and not me. My insurance company sympathised and took a similar view - but that they were going to agree a 50/50 due to this case law. It's a really poor judgement and one to be wary of...
My issue with other drivers and all roundabouts is most drivers do not signal here in Birmingham...How am i supposed to know where they are going ? I watch for the signal but nothing , i look to see where the car is pointing to give me a clue , i even look at the drivers face just to see where they are going....How difficult is it for someone to signal... I believe signalling on a roundabout is essential...Ashley Neal you are so correct that not enough tuition is done with instructors and learner drivers...Even now sometimes i misread a roundabout and turn left instead of going straight on...Thats ok cause the rules say if you make a mistake , continue with your wrong turn and check your directions when its safe to do so....Never try to correct a wrong turn or lane change as this can put others in danger if it is not safe to do so...Always read the road....Thankyou Ashley Neal...
This is the first time I've seen someone explain how British multi lane roundabouts are actually supposed to work. From my perspective as a Norwegian, dash camera footage of them has always just baffled me. I'm a bit relieved we don't have too many roundabouts of such complexity here, and that we don't rely so heavily on road markings to let people know where to position themselves and where to go.
Having learnt on the Isle of Wight I’m surprised that people don’t learn these, we have very few large roads (about a mile of dual carriage way is it), complex junctions and roundabouts but my instructor went out of his way to ensure I knew how to deal with them. It’s all about planning I was taught, know where your going and plan your lanes before you get there
It's interesting that in Yeovil for a while we had a very high failure rate on first time tests. Why? A complex double multi lane roundabout was the first and last thing you had to negotiate on your test. The test centre moved and the pass rate went up. Not sure if that's good or bad...
The second roundabout for the A46 and M40 is one I use on average once every two years and every time I approach expecting trouble! You come to it from a fast duel carriageway and the time to read signs and sort out correct lanes is not there for most drivers and they panic when they get in the wrong lane, which is where the near misses and accidents come from. If I'm not confident about the road layout I'm about to use I slow down and give myself time and space to observe more carefully. If I miss a turning I accept it rather than risk unexpected actions on other others, then find the next place to pickup my correct route. I did this in Scotland a few years ago and found a great B road instead of the motorway!
I wish that the road planners would watch your videos. I occasionally have to go to King's Lynn, which has some really bad lane markings at the roundabouts. Three of note are:- 1. The lane for the hospital disappears as you go around the QE Hospital roundabout. There are frequent accidents here. Lane information signs are hard to see, being low down in the bushes. 2 lanes can be used for southbound traffic but they have to merge immediately on exiting the roundabout. 2. The lanes at the Hardwick roundabout are very confusing, with traffic having to sidestep at each light controlled junction. 3. Possibly the worst. The Hardwick Road to the Southgates roundabout has 3 lanes. One is for left turning traffic only. The 2 lanes for the roundabout both have arrows for straight ahead AND right turn so anyone in the RH lane going straight ahead could collide with someone in the LH lane going right. But this is Norfolk.
The order of road names on the markings matters? I had 2 driving instructors and plenty of family help back when I was learning, I don't recall anyone ever saying it to me, but now I look at some of the bigger roundabouts I use frequently, and it all checks out. Explains a lot about poor driving standards at roundabouts in this country if these things are not clearly communicated to new drivers.
I have to admit, I didn't know that you can't continue going round if the exit you need isn't marked on the lane. I dislike these big roundabouts hence seeking out info. Many thanks. I will watch more videos about this. 👍
I know the first roundabout very well. Its Hard Ings Road in Keighley. What many won't know is that whole stretch of road leading to it is a new dual carriageway leading to a widened roundabout which only opened a few months before that video was taken. The Aygo driver may be used to the old layout which still had three lanes on the approach, middle and right to Skipton, but the roundabout is now much wider and has arrows. The arrow on the roundabout for other traffic joining could add more confusion to an already confused driver. You are correct that the cammer should have hung back, at 3:18 they were in a perfect position, but in moving to leave left before the other driver's intention was known they put themselves in a position of no escape. After 30 years of using the roundabout I'm always wary if I use the inside lane to go to Skipton.
Yes, I sometimes still struggle on roundabouts I don't know. I used to worry if there was so much traffic I couldn't see road markings. It's much easir to count exits and concentrate on the road signs. Always wise to be wary of other drivers cos we all make mistakes.
Come to Birmingham the Bromford Lane & A47 Spine Road island. Not only do we have drivers who think the markings are for the guidance of others BUT we also have to contend with ridiculously bad road markings. You can be in a lane on entering the roundabout marked for your destination only to find when you follow the lane markings the destination suddenly moves to an adjacent lane!!
I was reading those road markings wrongly too. I get so used to reading top down like a book, that I forget to read bottom up, or forwards for a road. That way, the A429 should be forwards of the M40 on the markings at 4:40
I passed my test early this year however would not feel confident at all dealing with these type of roundabouts as I wasn't took on them in my lessons. I remember asking my instructor if I could have more lessons on them however was told I wouldn't need to do it on my test 😏 same with when I asked for more time on hill starts/junctions on hills, basically there is so much I'm not sure of after passing my test it's shocking. So I admit I nearly caused an accident myself as I did exactly the same as some of these cars. I'm now trying to relearn myself how to drive in these situations. Thanks for the video really helpful ☺️
When I learnt to drive there was no multi lane roundabouts in Cambridge but we did have what I was told was the very first mini roundabout which consisted of an old tractor tyre painted white and placed in the road at a four way junction, the idea was that the trafic would push it into the optimum position. It certainly tended to move around a bit over the first month or so
Do people ever make it across that without a crash? :) I don't know where I've hear this, maybe I've just imagined it, but do car insurance companies actually cover incidents that occur there? Maybe it's rental car insurance or something but I think the Arc de Triomphe is on a list of places not covered, similar to the Nurburgring in Germany I think, by insurance if you are involved in an incident there. I think there is 1 rule, you give way to people joining, that's it.
If I'm driving somewhere new with spiral roundabouts I'll have recceed it first on Google Maps satellite view before setting off. I like to get the correct lane early and stick to it. So I can then concentrate on any lights and all the other cars either side of me. I don't think I drive anywhere more defensively than on these roundabouts. They seem to highlight bad drivers' shortcomings big time. And the close proximity means maximum risk, even if at relatively low speed. Personal favourites are the Target Roundabout in Northolt, the Uxbridge/Denham M40 junction, and that weird one at High Wycombe on the M40 that has a 4-5 lane sliproad THROUGH the roundabout's centre! Holy moly.
I have a problem understanding who has right of way when opposing cars are at a cross junction. I want to go straight, crossing 2 lanes where traffic comes from the left and right. The opposing car wants to turn right. Who goes first? Hope I’ve explained that well enough.
I still find multi-lane roundabouts to be the most confusing thing on the road to navigate. Dealing with one you commonly go on is fine, but navigating an unknown one requires a ton of cognitive effort to figure out which series of lanes to take, lane discipline, and much more difficult lane changes in traffic
A few extra guide markings to the exit would be useful on the first clip. Generally though if you are crossing long dashed lane markings on a clearly marked roundabout then you are doing it wrong - the long dashes are supposed to warn drivers of hazards so they need to be more careful before crossing them!
Worn out road markings are a massive problem. Incorrect markings also a problem. We have a new roundabout, where on the approach, all three lanes are arrowed as straight on
I have had grief several times with gyratory roundabouts, but if I find myself in the wrong lane, I'm philosophical about it, take the lane I am directed down and find a means to get back to the roundabout to try again.
Roundabouts with more than 2 lanes work well with a combination of signs and traffic lights. Loads of text on the road just doesn't work well enough imo especially when it inevitably fades and isn't repainted quick enough. For unsignalised two lane roundabouts there are already safer designs that use small barriers to make sure traffic leaves the roundabout where it's supposed to.
There is a roundabout near me which doesn't have words or arrows as you go around, only on the entrance. Just before turning left onto the A34 northbound, drivers need to move one lane left - but there is no sign, not even the dotted lines showing a recommended lane change you see in Australia. So it would be nice to know some rules of thumb for dealing with unmarked multi-lane roundabouts.
Ideally, I like to be in the left hand lane by the time I'm about to exit the roundabout but it's not always that simple. Roundabouts are not always designed that well and often I feel the real fault of the accident lies with the designer more than the drivers.
Here in Stratford we have a roundabout at the junction of the A46 and A3400 plus a local road. On the A46 going south about 200 yds before the roundabout the single lane splits in two but there are no markings which lane is which. The markings in the road occur about 30 yards before the roundabout, left lane to A3400 south and local rd, right hand lane A46 and A3400 north. There are contiual near misses with vehicles which go straight on from the left lane as they havnt time to notice and react to the lane markings or simply trafic is obscuring them. I have complained to Highways England and they agree there is a problem but refuse to add markings where the lane splits claiming they have no money
There's one common factor: in every case you showed the roads were very busy, so it may not have been possible for the vehicles to safely enter the correct lanes. This does not, however, excuse those vehicles not using their indicators to tell other drivers their intentions.
As pointed out, the road markings can be incorrect or confusing, I've been on many such roundabouts and been unsure until the last minute as to which lane I should be in. Therefore, when I'm on these roundabouts I'm always cautious of other drivers that may have made a mistake or been confused by the road markings & couldn't change lanes (or, most likely, were prevented from by space-closers) before going on to the roundabout.
My rule of thumb was to always come of a roundabout in the left lane, that way you don't have to worry about someone going straight on in the left lane when they should be coming of.
Swinon has quite a few multi-lane roundabouts, most are well marked, although the users don't follow properly. Several of these are on test routes, but to get around we need to use them all the time, so they are taught, not just for the test. Oxford has many multi-lane roundabouts, most are poorly marked. Choose a destination, follow the designated lane, half-way around find another lane to your left that has now got the same markings. This puts unfamiliar drivers into the right lane of the exit, with competitive locals on the left. Not good. Newbury has a few, one of which didn't work well, with locals going around the left side of the learners on test, crossing lanes. This made some tests difficult there. A year or so ago, the council repainted the roundabout, and its approach, to match the way the locals used it. Brilliant. Interesting to see that in those clips, despite taking the wrong route, they all seemed to keep nicely in their lane, until the 'oops' moment. Many people cling to the lane lines, which makes it very easy to cross a line. Keeping away from the lines, so central in a lane does seem to help maintain a better route.
Apologies for coming in with a "well, actually" here, but the A46/M40 junction markings might not be wrong - the junction is indeed that confusing. The cammer was indeed in the correct lane, and the dpd in the wrong one - this info doesn't change that. (that comment about the second A46 marking being for the opposite direction is also right). There are two exits on that roundabout that get you to the northbound A46: the third exit from that roundabout leads to another roundabout, which has exits: M40(N), A46(N), A429(N), M40(S), A429(S). It looks like the markings in the right lane match the exit order for the second roundabout, which you can only access from that right lane. I'm not sure whether this makes them correct, as they certainly are confusing, but I can see what whoever put them there was thinking. It's a really confusing junction if you don't know it - and it's fairly new - just outside Warwick.
Some junctions have some pretty terrible lane markings and signage also. Switch Island near Liverpool is a bit of a nightmare, following the road markings and signage coming from Switch Island retail park you can end up in the outside lane for the M58. Can very quickly turn into no man's land when impatient drivers behind would rather undertake than allow anyone chance to move left.
For anyone interested, this is Hard Ings Road roundabout where the A650 becomes the A629. Not long before this video was recorded, there had been an adjustment to the roundabout to include traffic lights and the confusing road markings seen at 2:12.
There are two golden rules for roundabouts. 1. If you’re in the wrong lane, just take the exit and sort it out later. It’s never safe to try and change your mind mid roundabout. 2. Never sit alongside someone in a lane left/right of you or overtake on a roundabout. Because of exactly what happens in this video. Absolute golden rule that, only about 10% of the population know how to use a roundabout properly. As a side note, the standard of marking roads is absolutely terrible. There’s a road locally which is on the approach to a large junction with two lanes. Before the junction is a very minor side road, and on the road are indication arrows showing that both lanes can proceed straight on with the left lane also able to turn left. People see these arrows and assume they relate to the major junction ahead, and therefore assume that they can use both lanes to go straight ahead with the left lane being optional for turning left at the major junction. However, the arrows actually relate to the tiny side road, and when you arrive at the major junction the left hand lane is forced to turn left (by a hatched box, so it’s not uncommon for people to just ignore it and carry on anyway), and I’d imagine that catches people out on a daily basis. Councils have a lot to answer for. (For anyone interested it’s Milehouse Junction in Plymouth, approaching from Outland Road)
I've always held the view that you're not just driving for yourself but for others. Never assume anything. That's why I'm always wary of people going round roundabouts like this. However, years ago, roundabouts were designed in such a way that worked on intuition or common sense and would apply to anywhere in the country. These days some roundabout designs are absolutely appalling and can be confusing if you don't come from the area. Also, It's all very well having markings on the road but they're no good if cars block their view.
I’m learning currently, and this is the one thing that scares me. Roundabouts mainly, with many lanes. One, you’ve got to think super quickly.... cars are everywhere, it’s all overwhelming. I also hate when the right lane of a roundabout is to go straight, not the left. In fact no, this is a slight issue, but what’s worse is when you can’t see the road markings telling you. Wouldn’t be too bad if the road marking were clean as day, so I can adjust. But when they have faded to the point of no return, they need redoing... I find it super hard.
I've recently returned to driving after a very long hiatus and I've recently had an incident at the Waterworks Corner roundabout in NE London. Approaching from the south and wanting the third exit for A406 North Circular eastbound there are two approach lanes (middle & right) marked for that exit, but after passing an unmarked area all the traffic from the rightmost lane crosses over and takes the leftmost of the two A406 eastbound lanes on the roundabout (leaving the rightmost A406-marked lane on the inside of the roundabout empty of vehicles). It means that anyone approaching in the leftmost lane is automatically cut up by all traffic on their right, and as it was busy when I was trying to navigate it nobody would let me into the lane that in theory should have been for me (cue lots of angry beeping). I was forced into the outside lane which is marked for the second exit (A104 north) but was able to travel around to my exit safely in the end. As the same route is included in the Wanstead test route there are videos from driving instructors navigating it, but they too always cross from the rightmost approach lane into the leftmost one, potentially blocking off anyone following the A406 markings from the leftmost lane. For an inexperienced driver such as myself, despite plenty of advance planning, it's both baffling and frightening.
I can't wonder if a system such as 'colour coded markings' might help. And I do mean coloured marking that clearly shows the lane discipline in its entirety from entry to exit. Multi lane roundabouts are a nightmare in busy traffic if you don't know the areas. Not helped by Britain's crazy road planners either.
one of the issues I've found, is that if its an unfamiliar roundabout to you and the traffic is heavy, you often can't even see the road markings
I can second this, also road markings are sometimes neglected to a level where they are completely missing, and even if you approach in the correct lane, half way through the roundabout you find yourself in the middle of an ocean of tarmac with no lane markings or arrows, and if it is not a familiar one you are not in a good situation. When I have to go take unfamiliar routes, I always carefully study the big roundabouts that I am to use, and even with that I sometimes find myself in a difficult situation. My own personal rule is that if I position myself badly and I am forced to take the wrong exit, I simply take it, it is always a relatively small detour, OR you can go round the roundabout and try again if you are in a position to do so, more than once if need be.
@@nikolaydachev8099 Agreed. The Hermiston Gait roundabout on the western side of Edinburgh is a prime example of this where the lane markings are scuffed off to the point of being invisible for drivers heading out of the retail park / industrial estate. It also includes a confusing left-turn filter system that only applies to drivers who are turning left and heading to the Calder Roundabout, NOT to drivers turning left and merging onto the bypass. The result? Drivers who are unfamiliar with the lane-layout being all over the place and local drivers blaring horns and shouting abuse at them.
All the time! Literally the only thing that helps me in these situations is having my satnav. If I know I'm travelling somewhere unfamiliar, you bet 100% I'll have that bloody satnav running!
Yes, roundabout lanes are unpredictable. Some spiral out, some don't. You never can tell what to expect until you get there and go round.
Use the signs????
I think one lesson to be learned here is that, just because you know how to negotiate these roundabouts, never assume everyone else does. Always keep an eye on what those around you are doing and be ready to adapt.
I always get people telling me they dont understand switch island so I do give everyone a wide berth.... it is fun watching people attempt to negotiate it like headless chickens
Exactly
And that's the problem, always modifying for those that will continue to make the same errors time and time again until they cause a crash with someone who isn't driving defensively and increases the chances of a serious incident.
Sometimes I feel like letting them crash into me because that would seem to be the only way these reckless numpties will learn.
@@ynotnilknarf39 use the horn, it's cheaper than getting your car written off to prove a point
@@zhuurst7149 honestly don't care if car is written off, other party will be at fault so I'll be claiming any losses from them. Pricks driving like pricks sometime need to be taught a hard lesson so they wise up.
I've just had an idea: Disguise unmarked police cars as driving school cars.
This would be a great way of training drivers to treat driving school cars with more care, as well as picking up a few bullies on the road and giving them a reminder that they aren't above the rules.
Or P plates because drivers like to bully those with P plates, seen it all to often and that is why I never used those.
@@Nodster That would work too.
That would be entrapment
@@Ultima2876 Your fault if you take the bait
@@Ultima2876 It's not like the police do not do it all the time heh
My safety rule is never ever overtake on a roundabout. If you see somebody driving slowly or unevenly, keep a safe distance behind.
or just treat cars next to you as if they're about to go into your lane and leave enough space for them to do so
Same overtaking on a roundabout shouldn't be aloud, would stop so many accidents. Right turn only lane cars going straight on is a common problem and they always seem to bomb it when they do
which sort of defeats the benefit of having roundabouts with multiple lanes
I was always told "No Overtaking on Roundabouts ".... At all..
Some see roundabouts as an opportunity to get in front of others.... and to me, this is the biggest problem.
Its very annoying too.
Was do not overtake in the old highway code and now it says overtake, under take, tailgate, drive aggressively and take no notice of signs .
What's mad is most of these are 2 lane carriageways! You can overtake to your heart's content!
@@TimpBizkit ... The painted lines within modern roundabout configurations should never have been introduced...... because,. If someone is infront of you, ahead of you, they should have priority.... also if you are local to the Roundabout, you know the Configuration of that roundabout,... first timers don't.... It's all so very wrong.
I get anxiety just from watching these roundabouts. I still don’t understand how operate. Would be great if you did an in depth tutorial on it
Same here.. I am a new driver, driving only 2 months. In my area and around the test centre where I passed the driving test is no such roundabouts. I know only basic skills about the roundabouts. So for me multilane roundabouts are hard to deal with. I didn't have many yet in my short experience but on each of them I did mistakes because they look so confusing. So usually I am avoiding to go somewhere further just because I am afraid of these types of roundabouts.
Completely agree, I would love some more knowledge on how to deal with these as was not taught in my lessons.
same here, been driving a year and a half where i've had one spiral roundabout that i learnt in order to get to the maccies and kfc... it always feels like each spiral roundabout is so different? i don't think one person understands where they're going in the ventura retail park one. i'm living in notts currently and one spiral roundabout you have to move into the right hand lane halfway through to ensure you can take the fourth exit like does that not defeat the purpose of a spiral roundabout? i thought the whole point was that you get into your lane and it pushes you towards your exit seamlessly, not changing lanes?
I’ve been studying aerial pictures of several on Google maps, to try to come up with a system that works for all of them, but they are generally all different, there’s no consistency. All a tutorial would do is say look for the road markings, but they are generally faded or obscured. I think they are just a badly thought out concept that may work fine for 70% of the driving public, but not 100%
My take away from this is on a multi lane roundabout, keep a car distance length between me and the cars in other lanes and expect them to cut me up lol
I learned to drive in New Zealand. Our multilane roundabouts have much clearer lane markings (lanes on the circulating carriageway are for exits, not entries). When I moved back to the UK in 2018, I really, really struggled with multi lane roundabouts. Often they are very poorly marked with no advance warning for which lane you need on approach.
I am from NZ and moved to the UK about a year ago and completely agree!
Multi-lane roundabouts and poor lane markings have the been hardest adjustments for me
The spiral roundabout, first introduced in Staffordshire over ten years ago. The offside lane nearly always spirals out to the near side, confusion reigns. We have loads of these by me, one where it doesn’t make sense ( pretty much all of them). I had it changed by Staffs council twice, then they redesigned it, now they’ve redesigned it again and it’s worse than before. Near misses galore, total confusion. Road marking( arrows do not line up with the what it says on the sign or on the lanes. I have pointed it out again to Staffs council and I’ve informed them that if I get involved in a RTC then I will hold them responsible for the irresponsible design. There’s plenty like it about, totally misleading and downright dangerous! The county council are responsible for your health and safety concerning road signs, marking etc. Cheers Ash glad you bought this up!
Problem is that on a UK roundabout, missing an exit (things like this happen) means risking an accident of which you'd be at fault. In Europe, it is highly recommended to leave the roundabout using the outside lane only. Lorries even exclusively use the outside lane, whichever the exit they intend to take, to avoid a car seeking its way in their blind spot. Sometimes I do find , that these roundabouts are overly complicated : reading all these prints on the roads (sometimes with abreviations or road names only) can be difficult to people who don't know the area - let alone at night, when it is rainy, or congested .
but that often means cutting across the path of other traffic. i have cycled all the way around a roundabout in the left lane once and it was terrifying, as people desperately tried to move left from the right hand lane
@@supremeleader9838 it doesn’t in Europe because people are only meant to leave the roundabout from the outside lane. Lorries and cyclists are in trouble in the uk if, say they are uncertain of their exit (it can happen if you don’t know the area). I never felt safe cycling on a big roundabout in the uk when the correct lane is in the middle of the roundabout…
The fact that dealing with these multi-lane roundabouts isn't widely taught means timid drivers opt to go round in the nearside lane even when they intend to leave at three o' clock. Add in the impatient ones who always opt for the outside lane and drive too fast, and it's always going to end in tears. I rarely have problems with them, but I do read the signs carefully!
A46, M40, A429.
Biggest problem here is lack of indicators from the people I suspect were in the wrong lane.
I can get in the correct lane on an approach to a roundabout but on some roundabout's can easily lose which lane you need to be in when on the roundabout.
Thanks for the video Ashley, got my test in 2hrs in Chesterfield (with plenty of spiral roundabouts) so this video was perfectly timed to make sure I know what to look out for!
Good luck 🤞🏼
How did you go Louis?
@@ashley_neal I passed!!
I only got two driving faults for going 30 in a 40 but other then that the examiner said it was a good drive.
Thanks for the videos they really helped me out and I’ll make sure to continue watching and learning from them!
Get in Louis! Congratulations and thanks for your support!!
@@louismillard3448 Well done! Could not do better than to keep watching this channel either.
Luckily for me my driving instructor put me on that King's Lynn Hardwick roundabout that was on this video, all the time. But i do agree this is an issue, and we have to address that passing the test isn't just the only thing to worry about, we have to make sure the learner is confident to be able to learn on their own afterwards having the experience and information they need.
The order in lane two from bottom to top should be - A46 M40 A429
Sometimes badly maintained road markings on busy rbts adds to the confusion. Helpful video thanks
I agree, after looking at Google maps www.google.co.uk/maps/place/M40/@52.2606442,-1.6111577,14.75z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x4876e09f0954bbc3:0x59b6c684b8af5596!8m2!3d52.3473166!4d-1.8199511 before looking at these comments, that would have been my answer too.
Is there a rule that states that the markings should be in the order of the exits? Because if not then I can make the argument that the order that it is painted on the road actually makes sense to me... most important direction from the right lane is the M40 (if you want to go on the motorway you have to take that lane), the next direction where most of the traffic goes to from that lane is across continuing their journey on the A46 (but this if a second lane that you can take to that so it isn't the most important direction) and finally you can go on a much smaller road that is not that often used by the traffic coming from this direction as the previous two. Same logic works on the left lane (I do read from top to bottom... so furthest marking is the first row of information. I think most people do this; but I do not know for sure) most important direction for the traffic is the A46 (as this is the primary lane leading to that direction) and then you can also take the smaller B road on the left from that lane.
On the other hand I can argue that both lanes lead straith across so they should begin with the A46 marking and then have the directions that turn away from the A46 listed after the main road marking...
Don't know... either order would work for me in this case. And it definitely shows that the left lane does not lead to the motorway.
Just realized that I figured out, while writing this, that the markings on the left lane aren't in the order of exits either; or you have to read then from bottom to top... in that case right lane markings should have A429, M40, A46 (from top to bottom)... now that is an order I don't agree with 😜. I just answered my own question I think. 😂
@@attilapuskas I also tried to find anywhere which says this order is *the* order but couldn't. If it were anywhere, I think it would at least be in the "Traffic Signs Manual - Chapter 5 - Road Markings" under 9.2 "Lane Destinations" but there is no mention of the order which destinations should be written. I think if there were an order then it should be that the first marking in reading order, i.e. the furthest away marking, ought to correspond to the earliest exit.
I think it's quite possible to come with these explanations if you think carefully about driving as Ashley does, even when they don't correspond to the actual regulations. I thought there was something a bit similar in discussions of the exit at a roundabout which is a "continuation of the road" (can't remember which video(s) that was in) and the implications this has for the choice of lane. I am fairly certain that this is irrelevant, and everything Ashley described follows purely from the ordinary rules of roundabouts (give way to the whole roundabout, stay in your lane unless you deliberately and safely change).
Nice to be nice, keep speed down, expect unexpected, these are a toughie , I know they shouldn't be, but they are
I feel that just regular roundabout discipline is falling too. And I think this lack of awareness - or probably even lack of caring - by some translates directly onto spiral/marked roundabouts as they just follow the same routine regardless of what is happening around them.
I concur. Navigating those big ones shares the same basic principles as smaller, conventional roundabouts
They've changed the layout of the College Rd roundabout in Rotherham 3x in 10 years. Latest costing £5million. It's just as bad as its always been. Plus driving standards at the moment are appalling. I think lockdown has melted peoples brains.
Passed 1st-time last week. All your videos have really helped Thank you!
I’ve been learning to drive for the last couple of months and soon be taken my test, but we’ve been working with these types of a roundabouts for the last couple of lessons. And the mistakes I’ve seen while doing them is unbelievable. I happy my instructor has help me learn how to use them.
An interesting video which has appeared a couple of days after I made a complete pig's ear of one of my least favourite roundabouts, the one where the A12 joins the M25. Because of two motorway closures my sat nav re-routed me to an exit I had never used before and I managed to get into the wrong lane. In addition, the road markings were very worn and partially illegible, and for some reason there was an empty and stationary police car in one of the lanes, with ambiguous flashing go right arrows; did these mean "don't drive over the top of me", or "don't take the next exit"? I didn't take the next exit, which turned out to be the one I needed, and found myself in a dedicated next exit lane for the following exit. The mantra that "if you miss your exit" just go round again isn't easy if you are in a dedicated next exit lane. Fortunately, following vehicles were sufficiently aware to allow me to extricate myself. In my view, some roundabouts really are confusing unless you have local knowledge, and I always try to assume that each and every driver on a complex roundabout may be as confused as I sometimes am, and are making a genuine mistake, rather than being cynically opportunistic or lazy.
Try the roundabout at Edgware, with three lanes heading to A1 south to Central London and two lanes to A41; Its a killer if you're not careful.
I sent him a clip of my accident at this very roundabout, surprised it didn't make this video.
All roundabouts have markings... The rule I've always followed and never had a problem with is if you're crossing a marking, you're potentially crossing into the path of another vehicle. Check your mirrors and blind spot before you move. This works regardless of Spiral or Gyratory roundabouts.
People will get them mixed up, to be honest until recently I'd never heard either term and I've been driving for 10 years. Yet I've never had an incident like that.
A lot of roundabouts where I live do not have markings.
Plenty of near misses but no accidents because I drive staggered rather than next to another car; your first cammer was in that stagger initially but as the other car slowed they should have slowed too so as not to get parallel.
I could've shouted seeing it happen, cautious driver with the pull off, keeping in a safe spot around the roundabout and then at the real pinch point goes into the danger zone.
I passed last month, and I'm here trying to wrap my head around them watching as many videos I can get my hands on
Your intro reminds me of when you could actually get down the strand without being stuck there for 4 years.
Going down the strand is an absolute nightmare, and I ride a motorbike lol.
Not sure on the road marking question, but road signs have the most important hazard at the top if there’s multi hazards coming up in a short space. 1 humpback bridge, 2 zebra/ school crossing , 3 crossroads all on same pole. I can find no entry in any books relating to driving where spirals etc are mentioned, and like you say, learners have no idea as do most drivers. Lichfield test centre complained and would not use the spiral due to misleading road signs and markings. I and other instructors helped them out with the arguments, the roundabout in question was changed within a week or so.
Fun fact. I failed a driving test on a multi-lane roundabout like these. Still get a bit of anxiety when I pass the spot. I seem to remember someone was in the wrong lane, swerved in front of me and because the examiner had to take the wheel it was a fail... 10 years ago and I still remember I only got 5 minors, too!
Same happened to me. Multi-lane roundabouts are plagued by people making bad lane choices, especially when they are new to a particular location.
There's a new one near me, totally inadequately marked, the arrows and markings are so close to the traffic lights that if there's a few cars waiting when you approach you can't see what lane you should be in, there are no other signs, it's rediculous. I continually have to take pre-evasive action as people just go anywhere and are not totally to blame. I think, as always take your time, give yourself space.
I disagree. You said, "Follow the arrows." I paused the video at 2:21 and I see an arrow pointing to the right. I would have assumed I had to go right at that moment. In order to go straight, he would have had to cut across two lanes of traffic, which is what you are saying is the correct thing to do. I'm so glad we don't have very many of these death-circles in the US.
And if the road markings are wrong, then I put the blame squarely 100% on the road engineers, not any of the motorists.
I mean regardless of what lane you're supposed to be in, constant observations are a must. They were basically clueless to each other positions and drove straight into each other. That's the more alarming part in my perspective.
Very true - but there are far too many roundabouts, and sadly it seems to be an increasing trend with new layouts, which are far from clear on approaching for the first time ever which is going to impact the quality of observation of all but the best drivers.
So many new layouts seem to either be least effort implementation or designed by someone in an office to min/max throughput without much thought for the experience of a driver approaching them for the first time.
@@Rroff2 What there are are far too many distracted drivers. I don't know where on earth he was looking to have not picked that car up in his peripheral vision. He hasn't learned that other drivers cannot be trusted to be doing the correct thing and you simply have to be constantly checking what they are up to. I went around an enormous (and new to me) roundabout 4 times last month - I just didn't know what the hell was going on and there were so many exits I kept on missing the one I wanted.
@@hansiesma16 Talking about distracted drivers - I've noticed a few times lately what seems to be people using adaptive cruise control to sit on my tail on dual carriageways while their attention seems to be elsewhere :( talking on the phone, eating or fiddling with makeup kind of stuff.
How people can be that dumb to think it is acceptable I have no idea.
@@Rroff2 Yeah honestly I don't know how talking on the phone whilst driving ever got made legal. As for applying makeup - it's terrifying. Watching these videos gives you the impression that it's really bad out there but my reality is that I am generally impressed by the driving on the roads in my area. Most of the stuff on here I have never even seen happening on the roads - fingers crossed....
This is an excellent video; as a driver of 45 years, I wasn’t aware of the markings order in terms of the order of exits.
As someone who was trained and tested as a driver in another country, when I moved to the UK I would plan trips through Google Maps/Earth and look up all the new things I could see before going to a new place.
I got unbelievable amount of abuse from other drivers for trying to go where the road markings on multi-lane roundabouts said I could go from the lane I was in. I would not have made that turn with that Toyota there, you don't generally want to be exiting on the right lane of a road anyway. I would've slowed and gotten behind it or, if condition didn't allow for this (e.g. your usual right lane proton-distance bumper riders) I would've just gone round once.
Maybe compulsory refresher training for a couple of hours every few years would make the roads safer for everyone, covering new things that we never learned in our own tests. I consider myself (as most of us do) to be a “good” driver, but having passed my test 40 years ago and now at the ripe old age of 58, I fully acknowledge that a lot has changed including the proliferation of multi lane roundabouts. I have always negotiated them safely without being taught the rules, but this clip has helped with the very simple rule explaining that you can’t go beyond the last destination marked in your lane as you join the roundabout. Since watching Ashley’s videos I have certainly adapted various parts of my driving and consider myself better informed than I was six months ago. “Nice job” Ashley.👍
I am astounded by the amount of people that are not aware of what other road users are doing??
Beechcliffe Roundabout. Multi-lane roundabouts are a design mess. They do not fit in with the psychology of drivers. Signs painted on the road may or may not be seen as there may be traffic masking them. Road signs in another lane do not apply to the lane a car is in, so it is unreasonable to expect the white car to look at the sign in the lane to the right (although a good driver would). In this example the destinations/waypoints are written as abbreviations for Halifax, Keighley and Skipton, and Bfd rather than the full names, so any non-local might be confused. The white car was so confused it wanted to double back and go back down Hard Ings Road. It is interesting to note that there is a plan to "improve" Hard Ings Road and install traffic signals at entry to the roundabout. If they do not improve lane markings it will worsen the situation.
The next example doesn't bother with destination lane marking, but road numbers. I once knew somebody who was a repository (or should that be suppository) for road numbers, and could reel off a route using them. When I drive I navigate by waypoints - so I look out for the intermediate place names. Road numbers mean nothing and just confuse me.
6:00 That is commonplace at the Portway Island ("Oiland" in local speak). A major contributor problem is traffic lights. I suggest that the lights reset the driver's mind, and that they see the roundabout from that point on as the major road, and the A435/Alcester Road as being the turnoff. Lights on roundabouts are a menace. At the end of that clip is shown another bit of bad design - two lanes coming off the roundabout and instantly merging into one, just before joining traffic from the M42. It was near here that Mike Hailwood, motorcycle and F1 champion, died in an accident. The cammer didn't show the entry to the roundabout, but many cars turn off down Forshaw Heath Lane (the first exit southbound from Alcester Road) when the want the M42 Eastbound (2nd exit).
Drivers struggle with simple two-lane roundabouts, but add another lane and it becomes a Herculean mental task for many. Add illegible lane markings, and the occasional traffic light, and accidents are certain to happen. When entitled road users, familiar with the road layout, are mixed with those struggling with unfamiliar markings . . .
This is a problem where road designers fail us.
Agree with all of this. If many users of the system are struggling, there’s a problem with the system. The layouts aren’t consistent. Knowing one large roundabout won’t help with another. There’s little to no advance guidance on lanes (none far enough in advance to actually help)..
People don’t want to process too much information, particularly at speed. It’s not laziness; the mind will want to take a short cut, especially if tired after two hours on a motorway. Roundabouts needs to be simple and intuitive and allow for a good shared understanding of the rules. We don’t have that. I rarely see problems for the first exit if it’s to the left. Why? Simple - pretty much everyone expects to be in the left lane and it’s no problem.
The large roundabouts also don’t fit in with modern methods of navigation. Writing “Ring road” or “city” (or “Halifax”) may be utterly irrelevant to me. I’m trying to figure out from a small screen what the satnav wants me to do while keeping the car safe. I don’t really know whether I’m passing through Skipton. I might be going somewhere 50 miles away.
I also think we should stop using the term “roundabout” for both these large roundabouts and the traditional roundabouts. They’re very different beasts with very different ways of working. Perhaps we need to specifically teach “complex circular junctions” and ensure they have a dedicated section in the Highway Code. At the moment it’s a mess.
Greta video, thanks to the viewer four sending them in, I myself don’t have to do many of these types of roundabouts but but know that a lot of people have issues with them elsewhere
6:12 this is in my town, and this particular part of the roundabout is notorious for cars getting pushed down the embankment where the crash barrier is. Probably seen 3 accidents here in the past year alone, I presume caused by drivers running the lights and hitting cars coming off the slip road to the left. But after seeing this clip I guess with enough speed a situation like the one shown in this video could "pit maneuver" a vehicle down the verge too.
The big problem i find is that even if you know the roundabout 100%, and can navigate it flawlessly, there are still so many near misses that are beyond your control because people around you keep getting it wrong.
As someone who was brought up about 100 metres from a motorway, I never realised people had such an issue with these types of roundabouts!
I actually find mini roundabouts more stressful because everybody seems to forget to go around them!
Same. I live just by a motorway but have more issues with the mini roundabout in the village.
@@antonycharnock2993 I think living by a motorway is also what has given me a love for acceleration, basically every time we went out we'd have a 0-60 run down the slip road!
Ahh wish I'd have seen this before I did the exact same thing the white Toyota did at the beginning today. Didn't lose my front bumper but nearly did. I don't have notifications turned on for any app whatsoever but I'll have to make an exception for Ashley's channel!
I’m confused why the Toyota was wrong though, the lane seems to be marked to go straight ahead, and also has an arrow pointing forwards? I’m afraid to say, but I probably would’ve done the same thing.
The message about road markings is on point, particularly at how just looking at arrows can make things confusing. I was a passenger in a friend's car the other day and she entered into a 3-lane roundabout using the middle lane for the second exit when I was certain she should have been in Lane 1.
On not checking properly and nearly colliding with another car on the way out (and her getting angry and blasting the horn), I asked if she was sure she was in the correct lane. All she said was that "left lane had the left arrow, that *always* means first exit". This was of course ignoring the fact that the middle lane had a straight forward arrow with no left/right branch, which the signage indicated was the third exit. This was also backed up by the exits being written on the ground and all of the traffic in front of us in the left lane having used the second exit.
It's that tendency to fixate on a single thing and ignore all the other cues around them. I can be pretty guilty of it sometimes, but I hope not to this extent.
In some parts of the UK multilane roundabouts are just not a regular thing, especially out in the sticks here in rural Cornwall where I learnt to drive. Also didnt help that my test centre was based in a town that also didn't have a single one. The nearest big set of spiral roundabouts is 30/40 mins away in Plymouth so lessons obviously weren't done there. I suppose I should have asked for driving lessons that focused on them but then that's the power of 20/20 hindsight.
This "Mike Amer" guy sure has a lot of clips to send in!
His name is Mike Hammer 😂
@@ashley_neal Named after the persuasive driving techniques he learned at the Bruce Fort driving school.
A lot better than my gaming name when I used to play Quake in an online clan - MikEHunT 😂
There's a few good contributors to this channel. Mini Driver, she's quite good and also Reginald (Reg) Plate
Just brilliant yet again, but I'm puzzled to why anyone has or wants to put a thumbs down? As these are ment to help, educate and keep people safer on the roads!
Don't waste your time thinking about that.
I haven't finished the whole video but in the first case, the one for Skipton, I think the problem is that the arrows don't match the lines on the road. As a driver, all the signals should tell you the same thing but in this case the arrow for Skipton is telling you to cross a lane when it should tell you to follow a lane. I've seen other similar roundabouts and they have proper lines marking what you should do. I know that you have a bit of "line crossing", but you can see perfectly what they mean. In the case of the white Toyota, it would have lines to mark the lane that goes straight for the Skipton exit. Edit: Ah, watching a bit more, at 6:00 you have the example of the lines I commented before. Clearly there your lane goes towards the exit, as it should have been in the case with the white Toyota. In summary, yes, some people don't pay attention to road markings but sometimes they aren't clear enough, so if you add that to bad drivers, then incidents happen. I always try to exit from the left lane to avoid these problems and be aware of drivers at my left, where they must take an exit but sometimes they continue in the roundabout.
I'm booked in at a test centre that has a test route that uses many roundabouts, so I have had a lot of practice with my instructor on the run up to my test, so i feel a lot more confident when dealing with roundabouts now than when i first stated. Thanks for sharing as always Ashley. :)
It really seems that some people can’t read roundabouts or think that they are exempt from following the rules governing them.
Since about 2012, national guidance for roundabouts arrow markings is to never have a right hand arrow on an approach to a roundabout. Only Left & Ahead arrows allow. Then on the circular carriageway left, ahead & right arrows are to be used, with a right arrow to show to continue around a roundabout and the left/ahead to show to use the next exit (whichever is geometrically more correct).
However this is only guidance and some roundabouts still show right arrows, especially if the old markings are only renewed. "Turbo roundabouts" make keeping to lane much more easier, and I wish we had more in the UK.
Weirdly roundabouts with lane markings are better in the USA than they are here.
What's a "Turbo roundabout"? We've got an elongated roundabout/junction in my town of Rotherham near the (New York!) football stadium which replaced an older roundabout to improve traffic flow.
@@antonycharnock2993 Search in google images for "turbo roundabout" and you shall see. Its basically a roundabout with lanes, but the lanes are separated by a hatched area which keep people in their lanes as well as removing ambiguous areas at exits
@@jerviservi I did just that. They actually do look like turbine blades.
I know the first roundabout well. Its only just been improved and converted to light control so that may have something to do with the confusion. Imagine what it was like before. Impatient drivers with massive queues at rush hour. This also happens a lot on my local college road spiral roundabout in Rotherham. I've had two close calls in the last few weeks.
I wasn't taught them 25+ years ago as well but I got over them by stopping thinking of them as roundabouts but rather just curvy bits of road with many junctions. This why I think some of the "left continuing round" are coming a cropper as they are treating this like a standard roundabout and are trying to go round the outside lane as you able to ( but not necessarily should) on the standard roundabout.
Would be great to hear from drivers like those we saw who were in the wrong lane, to hear what their thought processing was, what mindset or assessment they had made.
When I took my driving test 30 yes ago their was a new design spiral roundabout akin to this one I did it on the test and I passed . I was pleased they chose that route as it was a brand new roundabout that had been made into four lanes and there were lanes signs and arrows similar to this one .
Whenever there's a TWO lane exit to a roundabout, people in the right hand lane have issues. They get crashed into, people jump under them, so forth.
Just don't plan roads with two exits to a roundabout. If your junction is that complex, build an underover, or have an actual junction.
Had to check out how these kinds of roundabouts work. So far in the US, I've only encountered two lane roundabouts which are pretty straight forward.
There are 3 spiral roundabouts on the A500 which separates Stoke-on-Trent and Newcastle-under-Lyme that have big issues. One of the main causes of confusion is that the white lines were almost faded away. In the rain those lines and arrows were invisible making it harder to know which lane to get into.
I had the exact same collision on a multi-lane roundabout, where the person in the left lane decided to go all the way around the roundabout and exit where they entered, despite the lane marking and arrows, and despite common sense suggesting doing this in the left lane is crazy. Unfortunately for me, the case law Grace vs Tanner (2003) has set a precedent that a car that misses their exit will need to continue around the roundabout and that I should have anticipated the other road user not taking their exit. To me, that's an absolutely shocking decision when you have multiple lanes and clear marked arrows. The police that happened upon my accident were in complete agreement it was the other party who were responsible and not me. My insurance company sympathised and took a similar view - but that they were going to agree a 50/50 due to this case law. It's a really poor judgement and one to be wary of...
My issue with other drivers and all roundabouts is most drivers do not signal here in Birmingham...How am i supposed to know where they are going ? I watch for the signal but nothing , i look to see where the car is pointing to give me a clue , i even look at the drivers face just to see where they are going....How difficult is it for someone to signal...
I believe signalling on a roundabout is essential...Ashley Neal you are so correct that not enough tuition is done with instructors and learner drivers...Even now sometimes i misread a roundabout and turn left instead of going straight on...Thats ok cause the rules say if you make a mistake , continue with your wrong turn and check your directions when its safe to do so....Never try to correct a wrong turn or lane change as this can put others in danger if it is not safe to do so...Always read the road....Thankyou Ashley Neal...
1:31 top draw mate. Sending in a perspective of how it should have been done is really cool. Thank you.
Thank you Ashley, when I first learnt to drive I avoided roundabouts, and yes now I hate muilt Lane roundabouts,
This is the first time I've seen someone explain how British multi lane roundabouts are actually supposed to work. From my perspective as a Norwegian, dash camera footage of them has always just baffled me. I'm a bit relieved we don't have too many roundabouts of such complexity here, and that we don't rely so heavily on road markings to let people know where to position themselves and where to go.
Having learnt on the Isle of Wight I’m surprised that people don’t learn these, we have very few large roads (about a mile of dual carriage way is it), complex junctions and roundabouts but my instructor went out of his way to ensure I knew how to deal with them. It’s all about planning I was taught, know where your going and plan your lanes before you get there
It's interesting that in Yeovil for a while we had a very high failure rate on first time tests. Why? A complex double multi lane roundabout was the first and last thing you had to negotiate on your test. The test centre moved and the pass rate went up. Not sure if that's good or bad...
The second roundabout for the A46 and M40 is one I use on average once every two years and every time I approach expecting trouble! You come to it from a fast duel carriageway and the time to read signs and sort out correct lanes is not there for most drivers and they panic when they get in the wrong lane, which is where the near misses and accidents come from. If I'm not confident about the road layout I'm about to use I slow down and give myself time and space to observe more carefully. If I miss a turning I accept it rather than risk unexpected actions on other others, then find the next place to pickup my correct route. I did this in Scotland a few years ago and found a great B road instead of the motorway!
A simple rule I follow on a roundabout is never overtaking... This will help you in these situations
I wish that the road planners would watch your videos.
I occasionally have to go to King's Lynn, which has some really bad lane markings at the roundabouts.
Three of note are:-
1. The lane for the hospital disappears as you go around the QE Hospital roundabout. There are frequent accidents here. Lane information signs are hard to see, being low down in the bushes. 2 lanes can be used for southbound traffic but they have to merge immediately on exiting the roundabout.
2. The lanes at the Hardwick roundabout are very confusing, with traffic having to sidestep at each light controlled junction.
3. Possibly the worst. The Hardwick Road to the Southgates roundabout has 3 lanes. One is for left turning traffic only. The 2 lanes for the roundabout both have arrows for straight ahead AND right turn so anyone in the RH lane going straight ahead could collide with someone in the LH lane going right.
But this is Norfolk.
The order of road names on the markings matters? I had 2 driving instructors and plenty of family help back when I was learning, I don't recall anyone ever saying it to me, but now I look at some of the bigger roundabouts I use frequently, and it all checks out. Explains a lot about poor driving standards at roundabouts in this country if these things are not clearly communicated to new drivers.
In my country a straight arrow means stay on the roundabout and an arrow pointing to the side means exit.
I have to admit, I didn't know that you can't continue going round if the exit you need isn't marked on the lane. I dislike these big roundabouts hence seeking out info. Many thanks. I will watch more videos about this. 👍
I know the first roundabout very well. Its Hard Ings Road in Keighley.
What many won't know is that whole stretch of road leading to it is a new dual carriageway leading to a widened roundabout which only opened a few months before that video was taken. The Aygo driver may be used to the old layout which still had three lanes on the approach, middle and right to Skipton, but the roundabout is now much wider and has arrows. The arrow on the roundabout for other traffic joining could add more confusion to an already confused driver.
You are correct that the cammer should have hung back, at 3:18 they were in a perfect position, but in moving to leave left before the other driver's intention was known they put themselves in a position of no escape. After 30 years of using the roundabout I'm always wary if I use the inside lane to go to Skipton.
Yes, I sometimes still struggle on roundabouts I don't know. I used to worry if there was so much traffic I couldn't see road markings. It's much easir to count exits and concentrate on the road signs. Always wise to be wary of other drivers cos we all make mistakes.
Even worse when the road is wet - road markings difficult to read. Great video!
Come to Birmingham the Bromford Lane & A47 Spine Road island. Not only do we have drivers who think the markings are for the guidance of others BUT we also have to contend with ridiculously bad road markings. You can be in a lane on entering the roundabout marked for your destination only to find when you follow the lane markings the destination suddenly moves to an adjacent lane!!
I was reading those road markings wrongly too. I get so used to reading top down like a book, that I forget to read bottom up, or forwards for a road. That way, the A429 should be forwards of the M40 on the markings at 4:40
I passed my test early this year however would not feel confident at all dealing with these type of roundabouts as I wasn't took on them in my lessons.
I remember asking my instructor if I could have more lessons on them however was told I wouldn't need to do it on my test 😏 same with when I asked for more time on hill starts/junctions on hills, basically there is so much I'm not sure of after passing my test it's shocking.
So I admit I nearly caused an accident myself as I did exactly the same as some of these cars. I'm now trying to relearn myself how to drive in these situations.
Thanks for the video really helpful ☺️
When I learnt to drive there was no multi lane roundabouts in Cambridge but we did have what I was told was the very first mini roundabout which consisted of an old tractor tyre painted white and placed in the road at a four way junction, the idea was that the trafic would push it into the optimum position. It certainly tended to move around a bit over the first month or so
Let's spend a moment to think of the drivers that can navigate Arc de Triomphe with no road markings, no rules, 12 exits, and never have a crash.
Do people ever make it across that without a crash? :)
I don't know where I've hear this, maybe I've just imagined it, but do car insurance companies actually cover incidents that occur there? Maybe it's rental car insurance or something but I think the Arc de Triomphe is on a list of places not covered, similar to the Nurburgring in Germany I think, by insurance if you are involved in an incident there.
I think there is 1 rule, you give way to people joining, that's it.
If I'm driving somewhere new with spiral roundabouts I'll have recceed it first on Google Maps satellite view before setting off. I like to get the correct lane early and stick to it. So I can then concentrate on any lights and all the other cars either side of me. I don't think I drive anywhere more defensively than on these roundabouts. They seem to highlight bad drivers' shortcomings big time. And the close proximity means maximum risk, even if at relatively low speed. Personal favourites are the Target Roundabout in Northolt, the Uxbridge/Denham M40 junction, and that weird one at High Wycombe on the M40 that has a 4-5 lane sliproad THROUGH the roundabout's centre! Holy moly.
Don't get me started on Hangar Lane Gyratory
Good thinking Tom. I've been known to recce routes using Google Maps and Streetview.
I have a problem understanding who has right of way when opposing cars are at a cross junction. I want to go straight, crossing 2 lanes where traffic comes from the left and right. The opposing car wants to turn right. Who goes first? Hope I’ve explained that well enough.
I still find multi-lane roundabouts to be the most confusing thing on the road to navigate. Dealing with one you commonly go on is fine, but navigating an unknown one requires a ton of cognitive effort to figure out which series of lanes to take, lane discipline, and much more difficult lane changes in traffic
A few extra guide markings to the exit would be useful on the first clip. Generally though if you are crossing long dashed lane markings on a clearly marked roundabout then you are doing it wrong - the long dashes are supposed to warn drivers of hazards so they need to be more careful before crossing them!
Worn out road markings are a massive problem.
Incorrect markings also a problem. We have a new roundabout, where on the approach, all three lanes are arrowed as straight on
I have had grief several times with gyratory roundabouts, but if I find myself in the wrong lane, I'm philosophical about it, take the lane I am directed down and find a means to get back to the roundabout to try again.
I never have a problem with these multi-laned roundabouts, but then that's probably because I assume everyone else does! Stay safe people!
Roundabouts with more than 2 lanes work well with a combination of signs and traffic lights. Loads of text on the road just doesn't work well enough imo especially when it inevitably fades and isn't repainted quick enough. For unsignalised two lane roundabouts there are already safer designs that use small barriers to make sure traffic leaves the roundabout where it's supposed to.
There is a roundabout near me which doesn't have words or arrows as you go around, only on the entrance. Just before turning left onto the A34 northbound, drivers need to move one lane left - but there is no sign, not even the dotted lines showing a recommended lane change you see in Australia. So it would be nice to know some rules of thumb for dealing with unmarked multi-lane roundabouts.
Ideally, I like to be in the left hand lane by the time I'm about to exit the roundabout but it's not always that simple. Roundabouts are not always designed that well and often I feel the real fault of the accident lies with the designer more than the drivers.
Here in Stratford we have a roundabout at the junction of the A46 and A3400 plus a local road. On the A46 going south about 200 yds before the roundabout the single lane splits in two but there are no markings which lane is which. The markings in the road occur about 30 yards before the roundabout, left lane to A3400 south and local rd, right hand lane A46 and A3400 north. There are contiual near misses with vehicles which go straight on from the left lane as they havnt time to notice and react to the lane markings or simply trafic is obscuring them.
I have complained to Highways England and they agree there is a problem but refuse to add markings where the lane splits claiming they have no money
There's one common factor: in every case you showed the roads were very busy, so it may not have been possible for the vehicles to safely enter the correct lanes. This does not, however, excuse those vehicles not using their indicators to tell other drivers their intentions.
As pointed out, the road markings can be incorrect or confusing, I've been on many such roundabouts and been unsure until the last minute as to which lane I should be in. Therefore, when I'm on these roundabouts I'm always cautious of other drivers that may have made a mistake or been confused by the road markings & couldn't change lanes (or, most likely, were prevented from by space-closers) before going on to the roundabout.
My rule of thumb was to always come of a roundabout in the left lane, that way you don't have to worry about someone going straight on in the left lane when they should be coming of.
Was? You not drive anymore?
Swinon has quite a few multi-lane roundabouts, most are well marked, although the users don't follow properly. Several of these are on test routes, but to get around we need to use them all the time, so they are taught, not just for the test.
Oxford has many multi-lane roundabouts, most are poorly marked. Choose a destination, follow the designated lane, half-way around find another lane to your left that has now got the same markings. This puts unfamiliar drivers into the right lane of the exit, with competitive locals on the left. Not good.
Newbury has a few, one of which didn't work well, with locals going around the left side of the learners on test, crossing lanes. This made some tests difficult there. A year or so ago, the council repainted the roundabout, and its approach, to match the way the locals used it. Brilliant.
Interesting to see that in those clips, despite taking the wrong route, they all seemed to keep nicely in their lane, until the 'oops' moment. Many people cling to the lane lines, which makes it very easy to cross a line. Keeping away from the lines, so central in a lane does seem to help maintain a better route.
Apologies for coming in with a "well, actually" here, but the A46/M40 junction markings might not be wrong - the junction is indeed that confusing.
The cammer was indeed in the correct lane, and the dpd in the wrong one - this info doesn't change that. (that comment about the second A46 marking being for the opposite direction is also right).
There are two exits on that roundabout that get you to the northbound A46: the third exit from that roundabout leads to another roundabout, which has exits: M40(N), A46(N), A429(N), M40(S), A429(S). It looks like the markings in the right lane match the exit order for the second roundabout, which you can only access from that right lane.
I'm not sure whether this makes them correct, as they certainly are confusing, but I can see what whoever put them there was thinking.
It's a really confusing junction if you don't know it - and it's fairly new - just outside Warwick.
Some junctions have some pretty terrible lane markings and signage also.
Switch Island near Liverpool is a bit of a nightmare, following the road markings and signage coming from Switch Island retail park you can end up in the outside lane for the M58.
Can very quickly turn into no man's land when impatient drivers behind would rather undertake than allow anyone chance to move left.
I have this exact problem on an island every morning, I was going to send you a clip in becuase I thought I was losing my mind!!!
For anyone interested, this is Hard Ings Road roundabout where the A650 becomes the A629. Not long before this video was recorded, there had been an adjustment to the roundabout to include traffic lights and the confusing road markings seen at 2:12.
There are two golden rules for roundabouts.
1. If you’re in the wrong lane, just take the exit and sort it out later. It’s never safe to try and change your mind mid roundabout.
2. Never sit alongside someone in a lane left/right of you or overtake on a roundabout. Because of exactly what happens in this video. Absolute golden rule that, only about 10% of the population know how to use a roundabout properly.
As a side note, the standard of marking roads is absolutely terrible. There’s a road locally which is on the approach to a large junction with two lanes. Before the junction is a very minor side road, and on the road are indication arrows showing that both lanes can proceed straight on with the left lane also able to turn left.
People see these arrows and assume they relate to the major junction ahead, and therefore assume that they can use both lanes to go straight ahead with the left lane being optional for turning left at the major junction. However, the arrows actually relate to the tiny side road, and when you arrive at the major junction the left hand lane is forced to turn left (by a hatched box, so it’s not uncommon for people to just ignore it and carry on anyway), and I’d imagine that catches people out on a daily basis. Councils have a lot to answer for.
(For anyone interested it’s Milehouse Junction in Plymouth, approaching from Outland Road)
I've always held the view that you're not just driving for yourself but for others. Never assume anything. That's why I'm always wary of people going round roundabouts like this. However, years ago, roundabouts were designed in such a way that worked on intuition or common sense and would apply to anywhere in the country. These days some roundabout designs are absolutely appalling and can be confusing if you don't come from the area. Also, It's all very well having markings on the road but they're no good if cars block their view.
I’m learning currently, and this is the one thing that scares me. Roundabouts mainly, with many lanes. One, you’ve got to think super quickly.... cars are everywhere, it’s all overwhelming. I also hate when the right lane of a roundabout is to go straight, not the left. In fact no, this is a slight issue, but what’s worse is when you can’t see the road markings telling you. Wouldn’t be too bad if the road marking were clean as day, so I can adjust. But when they have faded to the point of no return, they need redoing... I find it super hard.
I've recently returned to driving after a very long hiatus and I've recently had an incident at the Waterworks Corner roundabout in NE London. Approaching from the south and wanting the third exit for A406 North Circular eastbound there are two approach lanes (middle & right) marked for that exit, but after passing an unmarked area all the traffic from the rightmost lane crosses over and takes the leftmost of the two A406 eastbound lanes on the roundabout (leaving the rightmost A406-marked lane on the inside of the roundabout empty of vehicles). It means that anyone approaching in the leftmost lane is automatically cut up by all traffic on their right, and as it was busy when I was trying to navigate it nobody would let me into the lane that in theory should have been for me (cue lots of angry beeping). I was forced into the outside lane which is marked for the second exit (A104 north) but was able to travel around to my exit safely in the end. As the same route is included in the Wanstead test route there are videos from driving instructors navigating it, but they too always cross from the rightmost approach lane into the leftmost one, potentially blocking off anyone following the A406 markings from the leftmost lane. For an inexperienced driver such as myself, despite plenty of advance planning, it's both baffling and frightening.
I can't wonder if a system such as 'colour coded markings' might help. And I do mean coloured marking that clearly shows the lane discipline in its entirety from entry to exit. Multi lane roundabouts are a nightmare in busy traffic if you don't know the areas. Not helped by Britain's crazy road planners either.