How Did This Ancient City Become a TOWN?
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- In 1998 this ancient city in Kent was downgraded to the status of town. This is despite it being home to what is claimed to be England's second oldest cathedral. So how did this happen? In this video we explore the story behind England's 'lost' city.
All video footage is my own, and originates from my flagship channel, 4K Explorer, which you can check out here: -- / @4kexplorer
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A very thorough and interesting summary of Rochester and it's surroundings. I was fortunate enough in my younger years, (I'm eighty now), to attend the now defunct, (in Rochester High Street), Sir Joseph Williamson's School for Boys, and remember, with difficulty, the history lessons that we endured concerning the locality. Many thanks for reviving the history that we were taught at the time! (Perhaps someone with tenacity will re-apply for city status in the next few years, I should like to see it re-established!)
I have to agree with you that the removal of city status from such a historic city is a travesty
A travesty of what?
It’s a beautiful cathedral, inside and out.. the catalpa growing outside is, I believe, the oldest in the U.K..
The local council can't fix the potholes, why would they remember to apply for City status.
In fairness, whatever the record of the current council, it was the outgoing Rochester-upon-Medway council that neglected to apply for the formal transfer. By the time the current council realised this the city status had lapsed with no entity to formally recover it.
@@timrollpickering It was still all the some people. They are and continue to be an inept, clueless collection of halfwits. It doesn't seem to matter what colour rosette they wear.
Very well presented, thank you.
Good video. It was a deliberate act of civic vandalism against the ancient City which in itself is unique to the 5 towns of Medway. Should have retained it for the historical value alone.
No it was sheer incompetence not deliberate malice. Local government reorganisations happen all the time and there are established procedures for transferring city status, either by extending it to the whole new authority or by appointing "charter trustees" (I think they can be a relevant area committee of the district council or a town council). But Rochester-upon-Medway neglected to do this and by the time this was spotted it was too late.
@@timrollpickering your assertion is not backed up by anything like evidence Tim. In fact it is the contrary. It was a talking point for some time and the story was in the public domain before the time had lapsed so there was no excuse to simply say 'we forgot'.
In fact you've answered the next question as to why in as much it was because the plan was to create a unitary authority which the status of Rochester needed changing to facilitate. And that is exactly what happened. Just a happy coincidence?
Regardless of the state of competence in the council and we all can have an opinion on that, there are people who take these sort of things seriously and it was those I would suggest who made the story public.
Anything after that at best was deliberate neglect but in reality was to create Medway Borough Council.
As a recent comer-in to one of the villages that also make up Medway, I was confused about Rochester's city status and did my own research, which echoes your video, and I found out that Medway Council has applied to the Queen several times for reinstatement of city status. It shouldn't be neccessary as Medway is only a political administrative entity, lumping 5 small towns together. My postal address is Gillingham Kent not Medway Kent. Rochester should still be classed as a city, its got a proper cathedral unlike Wakefield, Bradford and Sheffield which have upgraded parish churches rather than build new cathedrals upon aquiring city status. And Salford is still a city even though it lost its independence on becoming a constituent part of Greater Manchester.
All manner of entities have city status. Stoke-on-Trent is six towns. Brighton and Hove are two towns. Many other cities have expanded and absorbed neighbouring settlements.
Postal addresses don't always follow local government boundaries, especially changes from the 1990s onwards.
Hello Alex, l enjoyed this video, but you're right that we didn't all know that Rochester is no longer legally a city. However, although l no longer live there, my ancestral city will always be a city to me and many others. Hellen
Too right. A city in our hearts!
FYI: Two former capitals have gained modern city status in just over a decade, the for mentioned Roman Capital of Colchester, in 2022, and the once temporary capital of England, Cathedral and County town, that featured in a Dickens novel or two, and lies half way along the Roman Road between the port of London and Capital at Colchester, Chelmsford, in 2012.
Very interesting. I ‘collect’ cathedrals - ie I aim to visit each one in England. Rochester is on my ‘to do’ list (somewhat ironic for a person born in, but no longer living in, Kent) and now I’m better informed. Thanks in anticipation of a future visit. BTW I live in a very tiny city (not Wells, the other one); I can’t imagine a downgrade happening without a hullabaloo.
How have you set up your list? I'm visiting all English Protestant cathedrals. When I started my list I decided to trim it to something manageble by excluding Catholic and Orthodox cathedrals
@@glen1555 I’m using the list in the index to Simon Jenkins’ great book on English Cathedrals. He includes some RC which are interesting architecturally; they are often in the same city (eg Liverpool, Newcastle, Bristol, Norwich). If you haven’t got the book, then I can highly recommend it as a cathedral companion.
When I Think of Rochester, I think of GEC Marconi avionics, whom I work for in 1985 to 1987, although I was based in Basildon.
Dunfermline was once the capital of Scotland, but lost this status in the 14th century and was until 1975 a burgh, then a district in Fife Region. In the Queen's Platinum Jubilee Civic Honours in May 2022 Dunfermline was awarded city status. This was formally awarded by King Charles on 3 October 2022 in his first official visit after becoming King on the death of the Queen in September 2022. See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunfermline and on obtaining city status the useful explanation of how it is achieved at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platinum_Jubilee_Civic_Honours .
In fairness, half the one-horse towns in Scotland have been the capital at some point, because the court used to tour the place and declare the capital to be wherever it was at the time.
I visited Rochester by accident.. was looking for Canterbury but found myself here haha
Didn't Charles Dickens made the same mistake!
This was a question in the Guardian Saturday Quiz yesterday!
Thank you. This was very interesting.
Lovely looking place.
Seems wrong that a change from one arbitrarily chosen local authority name to another arbitrarily chosen local authority name should affect a City's status.
It wasn't the name. Rather it the was the dissolution of the borough that held the city status and its replacement by a wider unitary authority. Charters are granted to entities representing the places and the charters are routinely transferred through local government reorganisations all the time. However the outgoing council didn't take the necessary action.
Thank you i think it should have it's city status back because of the cathedral and the age it was a city.
This is alarming. It has a Cathedral, ergo, it IS a City. End. That is an English Rule.
That hasn't been the rule since the 19th century
There are 18 Cities without a Cathedral. 13 Towns with a Cathedral that are not Cities.
Wolverhampton.
What makes a city a city in the Uk is the royal family. Literally that's all it is. The royal family deems it a city. Has nothing to do with cathedrals or population size or any other variables which is quite ridiculous.
@jamesineson4609 actually the government decides the monarch just rubberstamps the decision
How about Roman Sorviodunum which became Anglo-Saxon Sarisburh and until the 19th century was the parliamentary district of Old Sarum. It too had a cathedral until that was moved a few miles south to the river.
Love this bit of modern history built upon its roman base. Now that Rochester is a town does it lose any benefits pertinent to a city only? Thanks for sharing.
The downsides are subtle really. It may be less likely to host events, and perhaps less likely to receive government investment, though I'm speculating on that one. It's more of a local pride issue. With Canterbury now being the only city in Kent, I can't imagine that sits too well with folks from Rochester!
Who cares? I am from Ipswich, we are a town and happy to be so. St Asaph (population 3000 odd) is a city. So effing what?
really good
Like the more detailed episode. Thanks Alex
Cheers!
The Royal Victoria and Bull Hotel (known to the locals as the Bull & Vic) is in Dartford, which is about a half hour drive from Rochester.
That's a namesake. The hotel featured here is on Rochester High Street (filmed by yours truly).
@@AlexinGreatBritain Apologies, I stand corrected. 👍
@@johnkavanagh7831 No apology necessary! :)
Thanks for your video. The siege of Rochester castle was the subject of a recent film. Paul Giametti played Bad Bad King John.
Ah thanks, I'll have to check that out. Sounds like my kind of film!
@@AlexinGreatBritain Sorry I can't remember the name at this moment. It's a rip roaring yarn--- sort of a 'dirty dozen' medieval England style!
The movie is called 'Ironclad'. We have the Welsh to thank for it- shot entirely in Wales!
Ah nice! Filming in Rochester itself wouldn't be the best idea for the movie, what with the car park outside and all.
The incorporating of local councils into one large corporation was a huge mistake . The only ones to gain were the departmental heads who gave themselves massive pay rises. I was born in Kent and witnessed first hand how big is anything but beautiful. Swale council was unfit for purpose . Head office at Sittingbourne , dished out there troublesome worthless families to the new regions they controlled.
If not already done, direct this well explained video to Medway's mayor for council debate and then address HM at SW1A 1AA backed up by one from 🇺🇸 City of Rochester's mayor 🤔
Thanks!
Thank you Dianne, much appreciated! :)
It was 1998, we were all more concerned about the Y2K bug
THAT was a non-starter from Day One.
Great video. Look, very stupid bureaucrats aside, as far as I am concerned (and great many people too, I’ll venture) it remains the City of Rochester.
I still think of it as a city too.😃😃😃😃😃
I have yet to understand what practical difference it makes.
It doesn't its kinda a prestige thing
Mercia....Celto Saxon....Three Crowns....Merchant...Merkats
Mercia....Watling Street..Three Crowns Merchant Kingdom....Merkat
Bureaucratic f... up what a suprise
Why did they not apply at the time or The Coronation?
Medway has bid several times for city status for the whole authority but missed out each time.
There were no cities created for the Coronation
Sorry, but every other City has suffered a stupid local government reorganisation has followed the correct procedures and appointed Charter Trustees.
My own City of Salisbury had Charter Trustees from 1974.right through until 2009. It was and is a well known common procedure that is widely used in many lUK cities.
Why should we have any sympathy of a "City" that somehow felt that it didn't have to abide by the rules that everyone else has to follow?
All very non judgmental. Come on, tell us who screwed up!
Local council
The removal of our city status is a disgrace.
Medway council just spent 320.000 pounds on red lines and cameras. Pot holes everywhere and now levelling up Rochester money to Chatham this town is a shit hole scruffy place and now dragging Rochester with it
Thought it was Chester at first
Mercia....Celto Saxon..Three Crowns Kingdom......Merket
1:48 "But the Roman occupation wasn't to last" No to be Romanist, I think 350 years is a pretty good innings
Well....Birmingham appears to be Next....giving way to growing town Cannock !
Uncooked Chester
A Village, Town, with a Cathedral and/or University is a City, no matter how large or small it is. St. Davids is the Smallest City in the UK, as it is a Cathedral City.
That's a myth a city has not needed a cathedral since the 19th century and there has never been a stipulation that it needs a university. There are several cities without cathedrals, several towns that have them without being cities and many places that have university campuses that are not cities. To be a city since the 19th century a settlement has needed either an act of Parliament or letters patent declaring it so
Mercia..Three Crowns Kingdom......Telford..Watt..Bell..Boulton..Sterling..Iron Bridge...Dr Watson I Presume....Merkats
So why is Guildford a town rather than a city?
Because it has never been granted City Status by a reigning Monarch.
@@grahamsmith9541 - Isn't City status conferred automatically whenever a new Anglican Cathedral is consecrated in an existing town, such as happened with Ripon in 1836, when the Church of England created a completely new Diocese?
@@KempSimon No, having a Cathedral or a University. Is not a requirement to be a City.
Towns also cant just apply for the honour of being a City. Since the 1960s towns have to compete against each other. In a competition in conjunction with festivities . Such as the Queens Jubilees.
Southend was granted City Status in January 2022. After competing in every competition since 1992.
There are 18 Cities without an Anglian Cathedral. 13 Towns with an Anglian Cathedral that are not Cities. Out of a total of 76 Cities in the UK.
@@KempSimon Ripon had to have its city status confirmed by an act of Parliament
@@KempSimon City status and having a cathedral stopped being the same thing in the late 19th century. New cathedrals don't bring city status to their towns automatically though they may be taken as a contributory factor to a bid. Guildford has applied several times (and many local organisations have jumped the gun and called themselves "Guildford City") but never been successful.
I’m sure King Charles will sort it out ………DaveH. City of Lancaster
Are we (Lancaster) still a city though? I know we got to b be a City when the cathedral was built, but we were a County Town til then, Preston got to be the County Town when they downgraded Lancaster and seemingly at the same time we stopped being a City, though the council is still a City Council - as you can tell - I'm very confused....
@@helencoates3624 Lancaster became a city in 1937. The cathedral was consecrated as such in 1924. Preston took over as the county town in 1899. Lancaster District Council holds the status of a city but also includes Morecambe, Heysham, Carnforth abd a large rural area and since the Abolition of Carlisle City Council last year is now the largest city by area in the UK
Rochester now is a unitary with hoo, Wainscott, and strood, therefore lost city status, i live in medway, and the river is mudway😂
Rochester ? What about London?
London has two Cities. The City of London that is older than the UK. With a population of less than 10,000 people. 1.12 sq miles in size. boundaries are marked by statues of dragons. Run by the City of London Corporation.
The other City is Westminster where Parliament and Buckingham Palace are. Covers 8.29 sq miles with population of around 211,000. The rest of Greater London where the millions of people live has never been a City. Run by the Greater London Authority.
@@grahamsmith9541 Most cities are older than the UK.
@@tooleyheadbang4239 Yes, and some are older than the countries that make up the UK.
I am sorry but councils cannot change a city to a town ridiculous!!!
City status in England Wales and Northern Ireland is officially held by a public body responsible for the city wether it be a unitary authority, district Council, parish Council or charter trustees. When a district Council or unitary authority holding city status is abolished they are supposed to either set up.a Parish Council or a Charter Trust, the outgoing Rochester council forgot to do this
Bureauwankers!
The Normans did NOT "conquer England"! They established their rule over much of England. I'm from Co Durham.
So am i, and the Normans can f*** off!
The Normans certainly didn’t conquer Kent (Invicta - unconquered) it was effectively handed to them.
What would we do without a bunch of idiot bureaucrats to decide things for us?
The moving video is making me queasy! A tripod might be a good purchase 😅
The Men of Kent along with their fellow Kentish Men from the other side of the Medway should rise up and complain bitterly. Maybe a latter day battle of Swanscombe. 😊
Was that when the Norman King was offered their allegiance in return for leaving them alone?
Invicta - Unconquered.
@nigelanscombe8658 Exactly so. Hence Kent's moto 'Invicta' (undefeated)
@@rsilman73 indeed it was a negotiated peace by acknowledging King William I as their king in return for him not altering their lifestyle.
This was, of course, after the battle of Hastings where thousands died trying to stop him taking the crown and King Harold was slain battle.
But before the “Harrying of the North” to subjugate the North where wasn’t accepted as king.
Esturine incompetence.
Just your typical Blairite idiotic constitutional vandalism, but also no credit to the various MPs who've served the city since then. Rochester must reclaim its heritage as a city of England.
Tony Blair was PM at the time but the review into Local Government which resulted in Medway being formed was started under John Major's Government
Your first comment, before you edited it, wrongly said that it lost its city status under John Major. The video makes it entirely clear that the review on local governance arrangements had no bearing on the city status of Rochester.
I suspect the real reason it happened was that the Civil Service had been knocked for six by Blair's decision to create the super-department of Environment, Transport and the Regions, which included the local government portfolio, for purely party political reasons so he could appear to be giving the left's darling John Prescott a powerful portfolio. They will have been so swept up with managing the reorganisation plus an incompetent Secretary of State, and as a consequence, missed it. I fear the situation will soon repeat with Angela Rayner.
If it has a Cathederal IT'S A CITY,
No it isn't. Blackburn and Guildford have had Anglican cathedrals for a long time but are not cities. Preston, Doncaster and Wrexham don't have cathedrals but are cities
Was it a labour council that messed up? It sounds like their level of incompetence.
Tories have been destroying this country for decades!!!
I cant believe people are still scared of these buildings....brides won't get married in churches because of graves ...ridiculous...
Hold up. 7:25 : 'Miss Twinkleton's Academy for Ladies'. Twinkleton?! Imagine if a woman nowadays had the surname TWINKLETON!
Yes. And...?
Taking the Roman numbers is to prove yourself simple, then you accept Bede idea of who lived in Kent, the background detail is utter crap. Stop putting this shallow trash out please
You seem a little insecure. Did you miss the part where I cited all my sources at the end of the video? And who settled in Kent after the Romans if not the Jutes?
@@AlexinGreatBritain I prefer 'facts' to be stated along with any caveats, not given as truth, with the tenuous nature of their origin buried in the foot notes. Bede is our ONLY sources for the Jutes, other sources, - centuries later - that they were not exactly the same as the others hardly stands as corroboration. So not insecure, just dont like the stupid pretending to be informed issuing certainties
@@Cheeseatingjunlista OK, two things: firstly, in case you missed it, nothing I said about the Battle of Medway was stated as a matter of fact. Secondly, if your only issue is me taking the Venerable Bede at his word, then that's a pretty flimsy reason for calling me simple. No one's ever called me that to my face - probably because it's highly insulting. And you throwing the word 'stupid' in the mix is making you sound even more insecure.
@@AlexinGreatBritain Cant be bothered mate, enough
@@Cheeseatingjunlista Good that you can't be bothered. That means nobody has to read any more of your somewhat ungracious comments.