It probably doesn't matter. When you, or I say "sword breaker" we know what you are talking about. If I say "arming sword" you, or anyone watching this channel probably knows what I'm talking about, but the people who used them in the middle ages probably just called it a sword. "Sword breaker", if it were ever used when they we introduced in the Renaissance could have been a marketing ploy just to make it sound worse than it was.
Of course it would. Just about anyone would think of it, instantly. Many have, in fact, as you can occasionally see the objects being referred to, as such. Yet the alternative given (disingenuously, IMO), in this video, is the unintuitive, awkward, confusing and unnatural "guard breaking parry dagger".
A quick googling of the definition of "break" includes the meanings to "interrupt" or "disturb." Whether it was ever actually able to "break" a sword, in terms of physically snapping it, it certainly interrupts or disturbs the opponent's sword. Seems like an appropriate name to me.
In Russian language we too sometimes call it Sword Breaker (mechelom), but there is also name Dentaire. The second one, I think, is from French and somehow connected with teeth.
Gray Blackhelm Absolutely have no idea. In Russian language this word is using only for this dagger and nothing else. Fr-Ru dictionary says it is just adjective "dental" or paleontological term for "dental bone" or name of herb. I think we need a Frenchman here :D
Люций Бойправ I cant help but wonder if this is contextual? What if it’s only referring to the teeth? That would explain the reference to “dental”. But yes. A Frenchman would help.
Mike Lykan. If you have the ability make your own sword stand. Otherwise there are a few good options to hang swords in the wall. But I like the invisible ones : www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000J40458/ref=sxts_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1526138247&sr=1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65
that sword breaker really seems more of a sword catcher than can bend and warp the blade to make it ineffective and damaged during a fight; especially with rapiers like you pointed out,
I would go just a little further and suggest the meaning of a sword as an offensive approach to combat. While that seems obvious in itself, there are a few terms to suggest this, such as a "sell-sword" which obviously was not a weapons merchant. For that reason I would suggest the idea of referring to it as an offense-breaker, since it would be used to party, as opposed to assaulting a guarding enemy (specially if wielding a weapon such as a rapier). 'Sword-breaker' seems like an adequate term when thought of in this manner.
I don't think breaking the sword would be the user's intent. I haven't tried it out myself but a broken but free sword seems more dangerous than a trapped one.
I have often wondered what the thinking behind the Sword Breaker was, and was it meant to break sword blades, something quite difficult to do in my opinion. You have explained the thinking behind it, and how it was used; it was NOT used to break sword BLADES, but rather it was used to break the guard of the swords, and possibly allow you to take the other persons sword away from him. Thank you.
Honestly you could make a basic fork parrying dagger by folding a rod in half before twisting it several times to create a handle. Just sharpen the exposed tips and it wouldn't be that bad functionally...
I saw that r/ArtifactPorn thread- crazy piece (whatever you want to call it). I've never seen mechanical, moving parts like that on a historical bladed weapon before. Closest I can think of is an Indian Tulwar with ball-bearings in the blade ("tears of Kali", I thik they called it), but IIRC that was just decorative/ceremonial. I have to wonder if those hinged teeth actually work, or if it's just a rich man's toy, like those combination shield/sword/lantern/cestus thingies from the 1600s.
Pointless gimmicky username I’ve heard of a sword that doubled as a crossbow. I think Skallagrim did a video on it. Does it do either well? No, not really no.
interestingly the jutte/jitte of japan is basically the japanese sword breaker, however it is somewhat possible to break a japanese sword with one if you happen to be real lucky and strong, basically twist and bend the blade so it cracks. highly doubtful itd have been common in actual combat.
idk the japanese one seems quite different from the european sword breaker, the japanese is much closer to the chinese sword breaker, which is basically a sword shaped baton
I think an important thing to remember knowing all this is a term applied to legendary swordsman killers being called sword eaters. They don't mean it literally but metaphorically just like with sword breakers.
Glad you touched on this.it was definitely not used to "break" swords.the amounts of force it would take would pull blade out of attackers hand.thing is if you miss your probably dead or wish you were lol nice video 😎
Wouldn't need that much force to brake (stop) a sword; the separation in spelling between brake and break is post usage and categorization of the weapon itself.
Language is used to create an image in your head. I think sword breaker functions in this mode of giving you an immediate image of what is meant. If you took out every term in our language that is functionally inaccurate, but is illustrative, you would lose a lot of words in our lexicon.
ok so, let me give you one or two information, the sword breakers are oftenly used against "espada ropera", the blade beeing thiner than the basic rapier, you might have been able to snap it, "if you caught the blade when your oponent trusted while doing a lever action", breaking the tip of the blade shorter, giving you the advantage of reach. but ! if the chances that you break a blade are higher with this type of dager, it does not mean that it would happen all the time, but if you can break 1 out of 100 blades it would have been called so because it actualy happened more often than on a regular sword fight. so the name sword breaker would come from it's increase chances to brake a blade, not from it actualy breaking blades efficiently.
You can use this to catch the opponents Rapier. If the opponents Rapier cannot be used- at least, not effectively- then it might as well be broken, right? That’s my train of thought, anyway.
Should't it be better called a "sword trapper", as that's almost certainly the intended use of these (rather than breaking the sword blade)? Surely the point of the example you show, is that it was a form of parrying dagger that would entrap an opponent's blade (hence the latches on the end of the tines) when used in combat. This would allow the wielder of the sword trapper to safely manipulate the opponent's blade to their advantage. Pushing the opponent's blade away with the sword trapper would inevitably lock the sword blade in to the trapper, due to the friction generated by the interlocking angles of the blades. Giving the sword trapper wielder the effective ability to dis-arm the opponent. All this would give a massive advantage to the wielder of the sword trapper in combat. However, my thoughts on why they never "caught on" is simply because you would need to wield the sword trapper at a very odd angle (upright), for the opponent's blade to catch between the tines of the sword trapper and entrap it. And if the opponent's blade didn't do this, you might just as well use an ordinary parrying dagger which (by the looks of it) would be much lighter and easier to wield than a sword trapper.
I've seen swordbreakers in video games and I never once thought it was intended to snap a blade. Who would honestly think that's even probable? You'd probably break your wrist before you snap steel in 2.
Is there any historical evidence for the term "sword breaker"? If the primary use of the dagger is to catch their opponent's blade, with an off chance of bending, damaging or breaking the sword, isn’t it possible that the term was one of intimidation?
You could look at the evolution of the word brake, in Middle English a brake is a toothed farm implement (1 type for threshing another for tilling). Not wholly disimilar objects would be around called wheatbrakes and clodbreakers, so it's possible for it to have called a swordbr[e]aker at the time just because it was toothed and not because of how it interacted with actual swords.
The response wouldn't be "Well then they should just call it a guard breaking parrying dagger". The response would be: "breaks the guard? WTF does that mean?", but more importantly that is a completely _unnatural, awkward and unwieldy_ term. That's seriously the best, you could come up with? You couldn't think of the *obvious* "sword catcher"?
Well that's because the term he came up with, is obviously unnatural and unwieldy. He is clearly utterly incapable, of thinking up alternative terms, as he missed the utterly obvious "sword catcher". (which you even see, occasionally, as a term used to refer to them)
Jesse The Writer Guy That's better than his term, but I still think sword-catcher is simpler and easier to understand. I'd say it's also the catchiest term. Hell, it has "catcher", right in the word ;)
Go order another Kult of Athena grab bag and put on your make believe outfit for your next convention rest assured your boring job is a waiting for you on Monday
No. Saying "sword breaker" is *VERY* different, to saying longsword, shortsword or broadsword. Longswords are long swords, shortswords are short swords and broadswords are broad swords. Sword breakers, however, *DON'T break swords!* Their names indicate that they do, and thus the use of the name, spreads/strengthens that lie.
You talk of "guard breaking parrying dagger", is utterly disingenuous. You have chosen to use a clearly awkward and unnatural term (despite simple, natural and *obvious* ones, having been proposed/used), to use as the alternative to the continued use of "sword breaker", so as to strengthen your argument that it is fine to just carry on saying "sword breaker".
"I don't think any of this matters" You don't think that it matters, that the public are told, by the use of this term, that these implements were used to break swords in two? That the majority of people, are given this false impression, due to this badly worded and misleading term?
A fome Warrior talking about real life how dare you speak of the past blade designers and their terminology use their pronouns and just sit in the audience as a spectator of novelty
Don't be fooled, it's a comb.
That dagger looks like a comb, honestly it would be a really badass comb.
Your best intro phrase ever!
It probably doesn't matter. When you, or I say "sword breaker" we know what you are talking about. If I say "arming sword" you, or anyone watching this channel probably knows what I'm talking about, but the people who used them in the middle ages probably just called it a sword. "Sword breaker", if it were ever used when they we introduced in the Renaissance could have been a marketing ploy just to make it sound worse than it was.
Sword catcher would this not to be better Term
Yes it would
Of course it would. Just about anyone would think of it, instantly. Many have, in fact, as you can occasionally see the objects being referred to, as such. Yet the alternative given (disingenuously, IMO), in this video, is the unintuitive, awkward, confusing and unnatural "guard breaking parry dagger".
Butt scratcher ? Butt scratcher!
More of a Tempo Breaker. The predecessor to the C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!!
"Who cares?"
Excellently summed up.
A quick googling of the definition of "break" includes the meanings to "interrupt" or "disturb." Whether it was ever actually able to "break" a sword, in terms of physically snapping it, it certainly interrupts or disturbs the opponent's sword. Seems like an appropriate name to me.
Loved the intro...
I'd still rather use a shield, knowing the guy with a sword breaker is 100x more sexy and bad-ass than I am :(
In Russian language we too sometimes call it Sword Breaker (mechelom), but there is also name Dentaire. The second one, I think, is from French and somehow connected with teeth.
Люций Бойправ Which makes sense, looking at the form and function. Could “Dentaire” translate as “biter”?
Gray Blackhelm
Absolutely have no idea. In Russian language this word is using only for this dagger and nothing else. Fr-Ru dictionary says it is just adjective "dental" or paleontological term for "dental bone" or name of herb. I think we need a Frenchman here :D
Люций Бойправ I cant help but wonder if this is contextual? What if it’s only referring to the teeth? That would explain the reference to “dental”. But yes. A Frenchman would help.
You are right,Dentaire mean related to death, for example : dental care is tanslated "soin dentaire"
I’m glad this vid is the one I stumbled on when I got curious about sword breakers. I was just a click away from watching a pedantic rant instead.
Off topic what hangers and stand's would you recommend for my steadily growing collection of swords?
Mike Lykan. If you have the ability make your own sword stand. Otherwise there are a few good options to hang swords in the wall. But I like the invisible ones : www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000J40458/ref=sxts_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1526138247&sr=1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65
that sword breaker really seems more of a sword catcher than can bend and warp the blade to make it ineffective and damaged during a fight; especially with rapiers like you pointed out,
I would go just a little further and suggest the meaning of a sword as an offensive approach to combat. While that seems obvious in itself, there are a few terms to suggest this, such as a "sell-sword" which obviously was not a weapons merchant. For that reason I would suggest the idea of referring to it as an offense-breaker, since it would be used to party, as opposed to assaulting a guarding enemy (specially if wielding a weapon such as a rapier). 'Sword-breaker' seems like an adequate term when thought of in this manner.
I don't think breaking the sword would be the user's intent. I haven't tried it out myself but a broken but free sword seems more dangerous than a trapped one.
I have often wondered what the thinking behind the Sword Breaker was, and was it meant to break sword blades, something quite difficult to do in my opinion. You have explained the thinking behind it, and how it was used; it was NOT used to break sword BLADES, but rather it was used to break the guard of the swords, and possibly allow you to take the other persons sword away from him. Thank you.
Honestly you could make a basic fork parrying dagger by folding a rod in half before twisting it several times to create a handle. Just sharpen the exposed tips and it wouldn't be that bad functionally...
I saw that r/ArtifactPorn thread- crazy piece (whatever you want to call it). I've never seen mechanical, moving parts like that on a historical bladed weapon before. Closest I can think of is an Indian Tulwar with ball-bearings in the blade ("tears of Kali", I thik they called it), but IIRC that was just decorative/ceremonial. I have to wonder if those hinged teeth actually work, or if it's just a rich man's toy, like those combination shield/sword/lantern/cestus thingies from the 1600s.
Pointless gimmicky username I’ve heard of a sword that doubled as a crossbow. I think Skallagrim did a video on it.
Does it do either well? No, not really no.
interestingly the jutte/jitte of japan is basically the japanese sword breaker, however it is somewhat possible to break a japanese sword with one if you happen to be real lucky and strong, basically twist and bend the blade so it cracks. highly doubtful itd have been common in actual combat.
idk the japanese one seems quite different from the european sword breaker, the japanese is much closer to the chinese sword breaker, which is basically a sword shaped baton
2:00 obviously. The blade of an arming sword would be too thick to completely get into the groove. Just my two cents.
I think an important thing to remember knowing all this is a term applied to legendary swordsman killers being called sword eaters. They don't mean it literally but metaphorically just like with sword breakers.
Das one badass comb
"Oi mate are you caring your Guard breaking dagger?"
"Oi mate, you mean my sword breaker?"
"Oi mate, Yes your Guard breaking dagger"
Glad you touched on this.it was definitely not used to "break" swords.the amounts of force it would take would pull blade out of attackers hand.thing is if you miss your probably dead or wish you were lol nice video 😎
Wouldn't need that much force to brake (stop) a sword; the separation in spelling between brake and break is post usage and categorization of the weapon itself.
Language is used to create an image in your head. I think sword breaker functions in this mode of giving you an immediate image of what is meant. If you took out every term in our language that is functionally inaccurate, but is illustrative, you would lose a lot of words in our lexicon.
ok so, let me give you one or two information, the sword breakers are oftenly used against "espada ropera", the blade beeing thiner than the basic rapier, you might have been able to snap it, "if you caught the blade when your oponent trusted while doing a lever action", breaking the tip of the blade shorter, giving you the advantage of reach.
but !
if the chances that you break a blade are higher with this type of dager, it does not mean that it would happen all the time, but if you can break 1 out of 100 blades it would have been called so because it actualy happened more often than on a regular sword fight.
so the name sword breaker would come from it's increase chances to brake a blade, not from it actualy breaking blades efficiently.
"Brake" is from the 14th century word for "fern".
The blade looks like a fern frond.
Swordbreaker break is The Katana??
"Sword breaker" as an structure breaker... yup, I'm on it.
You can use this to catch the opponents Rapier.
If the opponents Rapier cannot be used- at least, not effectively- then it might as well be broken, right?
That’s my train of thought, anyway.
Should't it be better called a "sword trapper", as that's almost certainly the intended use of these (rather than breaking the sword blade)? Surely the point of the example you show, is that it was a form of parrying dagger that would entrap an opponent's blade (hence the latches on the end of the tines) when used in combat. This would allow the wielder of the sword trapper to safely manipulate the opponent's blade to their advantage. Pushing the opponent's blade away with the sword trapper would inevitably lock the sword blade in to the trapper, due to the friction generated by the interlocking angles of the blades. Giving the sword trapper wielder the effective ability to dis-arm the opponent. All this would give a massive advantage to the wielder of the sword trapper in combat. However, my thoughts on why they never "caught on" is simply because you would need to wield the sword trapper at a very odd angle (upright), for the opponent's blade to catch between the tines of the sword trapper and entrap it. And if the opponent's blade didn't do this, you might just as well use an ordinary parrying dagger which (by the looks of it) would be much lighter and easier to wield than a sword trapper.
I've seen swordbreakers in video games and I never once thought it was intended to snap a blade. Who would honestly think that's even probable? You'd probably break your wrist before you snap steel in 2.
Is there any historical evidence for the term "sword breaker"? If the primary use of the dagger is to catch their opponent's blade, with an off chance of bending, damaging or breaking the sword, isn’t it possible that the term was one of intimidation?
You could look at the evolution of the word brake, in Middle English a brake is a toothed farm implement (1 type for threshing another for tilling). Not wholly disimilar objects would be around called wheatbrakes and clodbreakers, so it's possible for it to have called a swordbr[e]aker at the time just because it was toothed and not because of how it interacted with actual swords.
Maybe they meant to break the suspension of disbelief by breaking a sword.
What about just a sword break. The -er makes it sound like it meant to brake the sword.
I guess HEMA uses the word "breaker" like how fighting game players use the word "cancel".
The response wouldn't be "Well then they should just call it a guard breaking parrying dagger". The response would be: "breaks the guard? WTF does that mean?", but more importantly that is a completely _unnatural, awkward and unwieldy_ term. That's seriously the best, you could come up with? You couldn't think of the *obvious* "sword catcher"?
Yes, this!
Not enough pommel throwing.
Maybe I haven't looks back into your library but I could I see some cutting demonstrations other than your room of cheap knock-offs
Nothing wrong with hyperbole. It already looks super gnarly. If someone decided to stab you with it and it went deep, it wouldn't be coming out.
I don’t see that term catching on. Sword breaker is much catchier.
Well that's because the term he came up with, is obviously unnatural and unwieldy. He is clearly utterly incapable, of thinking up alternative terms, as he missed the utterly obvious "sword catcher". (which you even see, occasionally, as a term used to refer to them)
Jesse The Writer Guy That's better than his term, but I still think sword-catcher is simpler and easier to understand. I'd say it's also the catchiest term. Hell, it has "catcher", right in the word ;)
Go order another Kult of Athena grab bag and put on your make believe outfit for your next convention rest assured your boring job is a waiting for you on Monday
No. Saying "sword breaker" is *VERY* different, to saying longsword, shortsword or broadsword. Longswords are long swords, shortswords are short swords and broadswords are broad swords. Sword breakers, however, *DON'T break swords!* Their names indicate that they do, and thus the use of the name, spreads/strengthens that lie.
Great an imaginary Warrior talking about Reinventing terminology
You talk of "guard breaking parrying dagger", is utterly disingenuous. You have chosen to use a clearly awkward and unnatural term (despite simple, natural and *obvious* ones, having been proposed/used), to use as the alternative to the continued use of "sword breaker", so as to strengthen your argument that it is fine to just carry on saying "sword breaker".
even guard breaker or blade catcher are simple and convey the point to anyone who understands swords.
+DrunknHick Guard breaker is confusing to a layman. Sword catcher or blade catcher, however, perfectly conveys what it does, to anyone.
"I don't think any of this matters"
You don't think that it matters, that the public are told, by the use of this term, that these implements were used to break swords in two? That the majority of people, are given this false impression, due to this badly worded and misleading term?
Seriously bro. Isn't Reddit just for the basement dwelling trolls who got kicked off Twitter and Facebook?!?!
A fome Warrior talking about real life how dare you speak of the past blade designers and their terminology use their pronouns and just sit in the audience as a spectator of novelty