I definitely love seeing people work with these and other species that aren't traditionally used for bonsai. Being from Michigan I definitely it want to try working with these since they're our state tree. Although a tree like that might not make the perfect bonsai in the future, I find that the most fun part is just trying different things out and watching the tree develop over time. To me as long as the tree is alive and healthy I'm pretty happy with it, so keep up the good work! I'm excited to see how this tree develops!
Ditto! I just started a forest planting from seedlings from a friend’s yard on the Muskegon River. Wish me luck, and I’ll do the same for you if you try it!
I just collected nine white pine seedlings from a friend’s yard and starting them as a forest planting in a training pot. Of course referred to your channel first for guidance. I think and hope I’m off to a good start! Good luck with your white pine, I think it’s well on its way now, maybe mine will be too!
So the teaching moment in this video for me is that Bonsai is a journey of timeless decisions and when you get there, you get there...Clip in Grow in general seems to be directed at decisions based a of future vision. This is a little intimidating for a novice(me) because the "vision" seems to be an acquired talent formed by years of experience. Undaunted by the time factor, limited experience/vision, I still like CNG because is seems like a more natural approach to "taming" your subject based on its individual characteristics...Thanks for sharing Nigel...
I love that you are working with native species. White pines are common in my area, and i love their soft needles but I've always heard they’re difficult to shape as bonsai species. Sometimes it is the journey and not the result and we can learn from your efforts, as well as from the comments from many of your very knowledgeable viewers below.
This is not a tree I would likely keep as bonsai, but it is by far one of my most favorite trees out here in the wilderness. If you ever come up here I would love to take you to the old growth white pine forest here. Actually there are several places I'd love to see you explore here! Haha! I have several White Pine on the property that grew by seed. I did not plant them. The oldest is right at the corner of my septic field, often seen in videos. When I purchased this place in 2008, I brushed and enlarged the front lawn to move trees back from the septic system. I found that White Pine there. It was about 4-5ft tall, trunk diameter about inch and a half? I could wrap my hand around the base and my stubby little fingers overlapped. There are many photos of is tree through the years. The top broke one winter and I cut it and sealed it so it wouldn't die. Every year the rabbits eat all the bark off any branches they can reach. One year that was over 6 feet up. The eaten branches were above my head. I also cut and seal those in spring. It's my baby. The trunk is over a foot diameter and the bark isn't smooth anymore, but still doesn't have plates like the older pines I've shown in videos. The last couple years some of the bark is flaking or shedding near the base. It's very healthy, so I think it is normal. 99% of the trees here were under 5 foot when we moved in. This was a hay field previously and is 100% grey clay under the topsoil. Soggy in spring, dries out rock hard in summer. I read all the comments too... My goodness. (nervous giggle)
Nigel, I enjoy watching you work on the pine trees. To me they truly are representative of Japanese style bonsai. I work on an old Podocarpus because of living in southeast Florida. Thanks for sharing your techniques with us.
i Love your Videos Nigel. Thank you for doing it and for making so many. You're teaching me so much about Bonsai and you do it in a loving and great informative way.
That kind of pine looks very elegant but it surely looks to be a challenging species if walking on the bonsai lane. Nice to hear all of your reasoning behind all decisions, always adding to the interest of your videos.
Being a bald cypress lover I was liking the flat top option. It’s going to be interesting to see how it responds to the pruning. Hopefully it cooperates with your thoughts for the future. Thanks, keep growing
I've had so many problems with young white pines over the years, they are pretty difficult to work with, maybe I'll give it another go, I wanted to try and keep some small. I love your outlook on trying things even if it is just to learn about the species, a day without learning something is a day wasted indeed. Thanks Nigel!
its a fantastic charlie brown christmas tree, but its certainly shown development and for such a tree, its probably everything you can do. Stick with it! if anyone can do it, its you.
Hey Nigel, I have seen a mirai bonsai video where he explains that needle trees have two growth periods each year. The spring growth is for extending the canopy and the fall/late summer growth is to develop the buds that’ll make next spring’s canopy growth. He says you should wait shortening the branches till after spring growth if you want back budding the following spring. That way you avoid having to wait two years. Just for info but it was maybe worth a try.
Pines do need their mycorrhizal symbiotes, but those fungi actually live partly within the roots, sending out strands into the soil to collect nutrients. Once a pine has its fungi, anything short of a fungicidal attack can't really separate them, although removing all the soil with the fungal strands is probably similar to removing the finest of feeder roots - something a vigorous, healthy tree should be able to overcome. Fungi can grow incredibly quickly in the right conditions, so I think that the issues people have with especially older pines come down to lack of vigor in the trees and a fragile root system that isn't prepared to bounce back.
I need to get me a pine!. I have not been successful with them in the past...Lost track of the ones that have died. Then again, I was still a beginner and learning ...
This is interesting, because I have one White Pine specimen in my ground-growing area, and I don't know how to handle it. I read that a local pro has had luck using very large-graned substrate to reduce needle size and growth.
Hi Nigel I have found that you need to keep the growing periods for each stem shorter. In the spring, when they sprout you need to get The individual shoots where you feel you would like them to grow and then you need to shorten them to just below that. Don't wait too long to do so. Then they will shoot again and you will have to do the same process of those preventing them from getting too long. If the wood is left too long, it can be a little more difficult or at least limiting to get budding back. Because the recommendation often is not to cut into wood, that leaves no needles behind. And 99% of the time that is the case. I can't say I've ever seen anything but back on the best then with a pine. As brutal as it sounds, I would cut a great deal of all the top growth off and start again with a new leader and develop smaller shoots that are going in different direction than the last. A bit like a zigzag but gently and then develop back budding from them.
Now looking at the video and it looks like you have basically done that. But probably go even further down and use the cane and the piece of wire to reform a new leader. But what you've done should work too.
Hi Nigel! Very interesting! I just started to experiment with that species too. With my Pinus strobus, I will try to reduce the fetilization to a minimum to allow minimal growth each year to make it denser and compact. I will see... As you said (about collected pines), in nature, when they ''suffer'' a bit, they tend to remain small and quite proportionate. Do you think it is a good idea?
I don't think a chemical can substitute Mycorrhiza, the benefits are also draught and disease resistance as well as a better more compact growth habit etc, perfect for bonsai... I think the more we understand mycorrhiza the better planet we will have as well as bonsai.
I don't believe in drowning a tree in chemicals. I've seen enough chemical burns and nutrient inbalances that personally I don't put that much stock in using loads of fertaliser. A little every now and again, sure. But most people use too much.
My experience in Christmas trees is that they are punched back and all the growth is at the tips. In nature on bedrock they become rather tufted. Often chlorotic and stunted in bogs. The best natural stunted white pines are on granite islands in the great lakes wilderness. They become rather graggy with driftwood and the ubiquitous eagles nesting in their tops
Hi Nigel, I have a large pinus strobus and the needles (since oct) have gone a very light green and some needles brown at the tips. Is this normal, considering it looked very healthy when I got it in September?
it's definitely a myth! as one who learned my first bonsai lessons from you, i also bare root EVERY species and i never had problems with it. not bare rooting is for people who aren't in love with perfect nebaris.. btw literati would also be a good style for this one i think^^ maybe as a backup option if the side branches won't seem to be ever usable :D
Hi Nigel. For sure it is OK, that you dont believe in mycorrhiza etc., BUT mycorrhiza are an integreted part of the trees root system, and without these organismes the tree will not be able to pick up fertilizer 100%. Unfortunately syntetic fertilizers will kill mycorrhiza ….. even when they try to build up some by themselves ….. why your trees in fact cant use the fertilizer you give them. IF you use organic fertilizer, the trees will by themselves build up some mycorrhiza and will be more healthy over time, OR you can lieve some old bonsai gravel when repotting or give the new soil a tee spoon new mycorrhiza. IF the tree could talk, it would probably say: YES, thank you, Nigel 😄🇩🇰🇩🇰
My trees build up a really good amount of mycorrhiza even though I use chemical fertilizer, so it definitely doesn't kill the fungi. My trees also grow very well after bare rooting for repotting. I think the health, balance and aesthetics of the root system over rides any if any negative issues with bare rooting a tree. I have been bare rooting all my trees for 30 years with no issues!! I think most people that tell you to never bare root a root system have never actually done this! They are just repeating what they have been taught without any tests or experiments themselves. All roots benefit from being surrounded by good growing conditions, that is what fresh bonsai soil provides. Mycorrhiza takes energy away from the tree. It does have benefits in nature, but I wonder if it has any (or much) in bonsai. Bonsai trees are spoiled, with regular water and fertilizer, very few other plants get this level of pampering!
@@TheBonsaiZone Thanks for answer ….. I am also bare rooting during repotting and follow your ideas for root pruning etc. without problems for more than 25 years, but I use organic fertilizer and give mycorrhiza when repotting. My point is that you as a trend setter with around 200K followers should be very sure in such statements. But you can do exactly what you want …. will still follow you and enjoy your videos. Wish you a good wind 🌳😎
Don't you regret not putting it in the ground? I bet 8 years in the ground would have made a huge difference! I'd not let this chance pass if I'd have a garden like you!
It depends really. Not everyone has the space to plant a tree in ground. My bosses boss and I were chatting the other day. His garden is just a straight lawn and he says he can't plant anything cus a few inches deep is a massive slab of concrete. Humans have so messed up the Earth that there is no gaurentee a tree will do well in the ground
Hadir nyimak kawan sukses dan sehat selalu sahabat selamat pagi dan selamat berkarya 🙏🙏👍👍
Good point on mychoriza! 🙂👍
This tree's bonsai journey will surely be interesting to watch! I hope it'll turn out nicely!
I definitely love seeing people work with these and other species that aren't traditionally used for bonsai. Being from Michigan I definitely it want to try working with these since they're our state tree. Although a tree like that might not make the perfect bonsai in the future, I find that the most fun part is just trying different things out and watching the tree develop over time. To me as long as the tree is alive and healthy I'm pretty happy with it, so keep up the good work! I'm excited to see how this tree develops!
Ditto! I just started a forest planting from seedlings from a friend’s yard on the Muskegon River. Wish me luck, and I’ll do the same for you if you try it!
Thanks Nigel, always the optimist ! I have a few WP’s in similar condition, and you’ve given me more incentive to keep on going with them !
A Charlie Brown Christmas tree excellently pruned. Spring will tell to see some nice back budding and growth. Cool!
This is one of my favourite trees!
Tree looks nice and promising!
Thank you
I just collected nine white pine seedlings from a friend’s yard and starting them as a forest planting in a training pot. Of course referred to your channel first for guidance. I think and hope I’m off to a good start! Good luck with your white pine, I think it’s well on its way now, maybe mine will be too!
Gosh, I'm feeling really impatient as I want the repotting season to start soon. I'm eager to see some nice pots.
So the teaching moment in this video for me is that Bonsai is a journey of timeless decisions and when you get there, you get there...Clip in Grow in general seems to be directed at decisions based a of future vision. This is a little intimidating for a novice(me) because the "vision" seems to be an acquired talent formed by years of experience. Undaunted by the time factor, limited experience/vision, I still like CNG because is seems like a more natural approach to "taming" your subject based on its individual characteristics...Thanks for sharing Nigel...
I had a Lodgepole pine that refused to backbud. I gave up shortly before the tree did. Good luck!
I love that you are working with native species. White pines are common in my area, and i love their soft needles but I've always heard they’re difficult to shape as bonsai species. Sometimes it is the journey and not the result and we can learn from your efforts, as well as from the comments from many of your very knowledgeable viewers below.
Hello❤❤❤
This is not a tree I would likely keep as bonsai, but it is by far one of my most favorite trees out here in the wilderness. If you ever come up here I would love to take you to the old growth white pine forest here. Actually there are several places I'd love to see you explore here! Haha! I have several White Pine on the property that grew by seed. I did not plant them. The oldest is right at the corner of my septic field, often seen in videos. When I purchased this place in 2008, I brushed and enlarged the front lawn to move trees back from the septic system. I found that White Pine there. It was about 4-5ft tall, trunk diameter about inch and a half? I could wrap my hand around the base and my stubby little fingers overlapped. There are many photos of is tree through the years. The top broke one winter and I cut it and sealed it so it wouldn't die. Every year the rabbits eat all the bark off any branches they can reach. One year that was over 6 feet up. The eaten branches were above my head. I also cut and seal those in spring. It's my baby. The trunk is over a foot diameter and the bark isn't smooth anymore, but still doesn't have plates like the older pines I've shown in videos. The last couple years some of the bark is flaking or shedding near the base. It's very healthy, so I think it is normal. 99% of the trees here were under 5 foot when we moved in. This was a hay field previously and is 100% grey clay under the topsoil. Soggy in spring, dries out rock hard in summer. I read all the comments too... My goodness. (nervous giggle)
Nigel, I enjoy watching you work on the pine trees. To me they truly are representative of Japanese style bonsai. I work on an old Podocarpus because of living in southeast Florida. Thanks for sharing your techniques with us.
I also collected few pines and juniper plants.
I have some in the ground. Anxious to see if I’ll get my backbudding after last years similar pruning.
i Love your Videos Nigel. Thank you for doing it and for making so many. You're teaching me so much about Bonsai and you do it in a loving and great informative way.
That kind of pine looks very elegant but it surely looks to be a challenging species if walking on the bonsai lane. Nice to hear all of your reasoning behind all decisions, always adding to the interest of your videos.
Being a bald cypress lover I was liking the flat top option. It’s going to be interesting to see how it responds to the pruning. Hopefully it cooperates with your thoughts for the future. Thanks, keep growing
There is definitely something very satisfying about a nice flat top bald cypress.
I've had so many problems with young white pines over the years, they are pretty difficult to work with, maybe I'll give it another go, I wanted to try and keep some small. I love your outlook on trying things even if it is just to learn about the species, a day without learning something is a day wasted indeed. Thanks Nigel!
its a fantastic charlie brown christmas tree, but its certainly shown development and for such a tree, its probably everything you can do. Stick with it! if anyone can do it, its you.
I hope you can bonsai the white pine Nigel, I have a couple which I collected the early days and now I don't know what to do with them lol
Hey Nigel, I have seen a mirai bonsai video where he explains that needle trees have two growth periods each year. The spring growth is for extending the canopy and the fall/late summer growth is to develop the buds that’ll make next spring’s canopy growth. He says you should wait shortening the branches till after spring growth if you want back budding the following spring. That way you avoid having to wait two years. Just for info but it was maybe worth a try.
Thanks for the tip!
Are you talking about "flushes"?
👍👌
The way those branches thicken up toward the tip reminds me of Popeye’s arms! 💪 😂
Pines do need their mycorrhizal symbiotes, but those fungi actually live partly within the roots, sending out strands into the soil to collect nutrients. Once a pine has its fungi, anything short of a fungicidal attack can't really separate them, although removing all the soil with the fungal strands is probably similar to removing the finest of feeder roots - something a vigorous, healthy tree should be able to overcome. Fungi can grow incredibly quickly in the right conditions, so I think that the issues people have with especially older pines come down to lack of vigor in the trees and a fragile root system that isn't prepared to bounce back.
I'm inclined to agree
Nigel, any progress with the community garden?
When you buy your bonsai pots, where do you buy your pots from?
I need to get me a pine!. I have not been successful with them in the past...Lost track of the ones that have died. Then again, I was still a beginner and learning ...
This is interesting, because I have one White Pine specimen in my ground-growing area, and I don't know how to handle it. I read that a local pro has had luck using very large-graned substrate to reduce needle size and growth.
Hi Nigel
I have found that you need to keep the growing periods for each stem shorter. In the spring, when they sprout you need to get The individual shoots where you feel you would like them to grow and then you need to shorten them to just below that. Don't wait too long to do so. Then they will shoot again and you will have to do the same process of those preventing them from getting too long. If the wood is left too long, it can be a little more difficult or at least limiting to get budding back. Because the recommendation often is not to cut into wood, that leaves no needles behind. And 99% of the time that is the case. I can't say I've ever seen anything but back on the best then with a pine. As brutal as it sounds, I would cut a great deal of all the top growth off and start again with a new leader and develop smaller shoots that are going in different direction than the last. A bit like a zigzag but gently and then develop back budding from them.
Now looking at the video and it looks like you have basically done that. But probably go even further down and use the cane and the piece of wire to reform a new leader. But what you've done should work too.
Hi Nigel! Very interesting! I just started to experiment with that species too. With my Pinus strobus, I will try to reduce the fetilization to a minimum to allow minimal growth each year to make it denser and compact. I will see... As you said (about collected pines), in nature, when they ''suffer'' a bit, they tend to remain small and quite proportionate. Do you think it is a good idea?
I don't think a chemical can substitute Mycorrhiza, the benefits are also draught and disease resistance as well as a better more compact growth habit etc, perfect for bonsai... I think the more we understand mycorrhiza the better planet we will have as well as bonsai.
I don't believe in drowning a tree in chemicals. I've seen enough chemical burns and nutrient inbalances that personally I don't put that much stock in using loads of fertaliser. A little every now and again, sure. But most people use too much.
Not familiar with the species, but it looks like a good project to air layer the top off.
N. is for Never give up, Never surrender.
By Grabthar's Hammer, by the Sons of Warvan, you shall be avenged!
It seems that I have a plan for ten or more years to come. Not exactly watching the paint dry, but...We'll see.
My experience in Christmas trees is that they are punched back and all the growth is at the tips. In nature on bedrock they become rather tufted. Often chlorotic and stunted in bogs. The best natural stunted white pines are on granite islands in the great lakes wilderness. They become rather graggy with driftwood and the ubiquitous eagles nesting in their tops
This might be a good tree for the back-to-nature style.
Just put it in a hole in the nearest park and let it grow.
😉
Hi Nigel, I have a large pinus strobus and the needles (since oct) have gone a very light green and some needles brown at the tips. Is this normal, considering it looked very healthy when I got it in September?
They do this in nature, it may be wind burn? I've seen trees that look almost dead come back fine in spring!!
any update on this 1.5 years later?
It's alive and growing, I'd do an update this winter!!
@@TheBonsaiZone Sweet!
it's definitely a myth! as one who learned my first bonsai lessons from you, i also bare root EVERY species and i never had problems with it. not bare rooting is for people who aren't in love with perfect nebaris.. btw literati would also be a good style for this one i think^^ maybe as a backup option if the side branches won't seem to be ever usable :D
Can hard pruning on this species still be conducted in Late summer or fall?
They are quite active in fall, it's best to wait until early winter if possible! They will bleed a lot in fall!
@@TheBonsaiZone THANKS!!
I think soil is alive and that trees benefit from the exchange of natural resources
Hi Nigel. For sure it is OK, that you dont believe in mycorrhiza etc., BUT mycorrhiza are an integreted part of the trees root system, and without these organismes the tree will not be able to pick up fertilizer 100%. Unfortunately syntetic fertilizers will kill mycorrhiza ….. even when they try to build up some by themselves ….. why your trees in fact cant use the fertilizer you give them. IF you use organic fertilizer, the trees will by themselves build up some mycorrhiza and will be more healthy over time, OR you can lieve some old bonsai gravel when repotting or give the new soil a tee spoon new mycorrhiza. IF the tree could talk, it would probably say: YES, thank you, Nigel 😄🇩🇰🇩🇰
My trees build up a really good amount of mycorrhiza even though I use chemical fertilizer, so it definitely doesn't kill the fungi. My trees also grow very well after bare rooting for repotting. I think the health, balance and aesthetics of the root system over rides any if any negative issues with bare rooting a tree. I have been bare rooting all my trees for 30 years with no issues!! I think most people that tell you to never bare root a root system have never actually done this!
They are just repeating what they have been taught without any tests or experiments themselves. All roots benefit from being surrounded by good growing conditions, that is what fresh bonsai soil provides. Mycorrhiza takes energy away from the tree. It does have benefits in nature, but I wonder if it has any (or much) in bonsai. Bonsai trees are spoiled, with regular water and fertilizer, very few other plants get this level of pampering!
@@TheBonsaiZone Thanks for answer ….. I am also bare rooting during repotting and follow your ideas for root pruning etc. without problems for more than 25 years, but I use organic fertilizer and give mycorrhiza when repotting. My point is that you as a trend setter with around 200K followers should be very sure in such statements. But you can do exactly what you want …. will still follow you and enjoy your videos. Wish you a good wind 🌳😎
Don't you regret not putting it in the ground? I bet 8 years in the ground would have made a huge difference! I'd not let this chance pass if I'd have a garden like you!
It depends really. Not everyone has the space to plant a tree in ground. My bosses boss and I were chatting the other day. His garden is just a straight lawn and he says he can't plant anything cus a few inches deep is a massive slab of concrete. Humans have so messed up the Earth that there is no gaurentee a tree will do well in the ground
@@Stettafire He could make a thick raised bed and plant a shrub or a small tree. Roots can eventually break through concrete.
wire it