DESIGN CLUB IS BACK! Come back every day this week for a detailed look at one of the best dungeons in gaming history: Durlag's Tower from Baldur's Gate.
+LittleFugueFlute I will probably have the same fate. Not a lot of people know how to play D&D. I'm probably going to have to teach them *and* DM. I just hope that I am not so bad that I discourage them.
I was in more or less the same boat. I've played a total of 0 hours in 5th edition as a player. Yet I found myself as the DM for 3 more experienced players. Watching Matt Mercer do critical role, and being a born accent and personality mimic made my first effort fun for me and the players. I had a blast getting frustrated by a lawful evil party being lawful evil. I still haven't played as a player.
As a kid, my favourite dungeon was the Imperial city sewer in Oblivion. Looking back it isn't anything particularly amazing but it blew my mind when I was younger that the designers had created a system that connected the entire city together. I planned theft and robberies of various houses and invisioned myself making my get away in the sewers. So imagine when I discovered the game had a thieves guild. I imagine if I'd already discovered the thieves guild before the sewer system it would've had a lessened impact.
Back in the ancient days of tabletop D&D when I grew up, my absolute favorite game module was Fez I the original... The Wizard's Vale. The time I played it (instead of the 3 times I ran it) I was the four legged dude (attempting to avoid spoilers). And we came up with three quite novel ways of avoiding paying the bridge guards.
I'm normally no fan of retroperspective romanticizing, but the Baldurs Gate series was, even compared to great direct and spiritual successors, the pinacle of isometric RPGs. Even yet I'm still intrigued by the atmosphere of the games. So thanks for the video!
+Timothy McLean I began my first adventure when I way about 10 and never really got to finish it (or even get halfway through the story line) for 18 more years. I got to the last level of BG1 (after buying it again on gog.com, the CDs were scratched beyond repair) just one month before my son did it recently. So take your time, these gems won't run away ;)
In this humble Baldur's Gate admirer's humble opinion, Pillars of Eternity is the successor to Baldur's Gate. Everything that makes BG legendary only better, more developed and more refined. Heck my only criticism of PoE is that I'd prefer it if characters idle animated during convos instead of freezing stiff like they do in Infinity Engine games. Seriously. That's it.
PoE isn't nearly as developed in the magic department, though. To be fair, the spell selection in BG1 is a lot narrower than in BG2, but with a few balance tweaks from modders the spell casting of BG2 becomes absolutely sublime (though it's already beautiful as is). No other game before or ever since has come even close to the depth, diversity and satisfaction as far as magic and spell casting goes.
Leiska86 Ah, right. I knew I was missing something. Yeah. PoE could certainly benefit from BGs much more robust magic system. Apparently Obsidian realizes this, which is why their successor to PoE, Tyranny, looks like it's bound to have a vastly superior magic system- even allows players to craft their own spells. But yeah, BG's magic - spells, scrolls, wands, potions - is definitely one of the games greatest strengths. All of that was implemented pretty thoroughly from ADnD.
Yes! I LOVE these games so much! So glad to see Baldur's Gate get covered in Design Club. I hadn't even thought about a lot of this stuff before, I'll be super interested in seeing the rest of the Durlag's Tower episodes!
That initial loop down the left side of the exterior is also a nice bit of environmental design. As the player progresses down the path, they see bits and pieces of the tower pop into view as the shroud of war is removed, similar to how it might feel like if you were traversing the rocky, uneven terrain in person. As you near the bottom of the map and you still haven't seen a courtyard anticipation builds as the scale of the building becomes clearer. Finally, the barren terrain -- with its pools of rain water, lack of vegetation and the absence of a man-made road -- stands in stark contrast with the knowledge that a dwarven-made tower is nearby, which serves to heighten the feeling that you are trespassing on a forgotten place.
omg omg omg omg Durlag's Tower!? Baldur's Gate!? Designelements the next days? Holy Sh... I'm in! I love this IP, I play every 2 years BG1 or BG2 plus the add ons.
I never comment on youtube, but your point about the tower "being something to strive for" when it is placed super close to the starting location is something I've been saying about The Elder Scrolls series for the past 1 1/2 decades. Morrowind had an organic feeling to it when you happened to stumble upon a cave or a temple that you couldn't handle at your current level. It made exploring fun and made you want to explore every dungeon in case there was something badass in there. The newer games lose that feeling when everything is scaled to your level.
Why I'm not a fan of modern Elder Scrolls. It's streamlined skill system and enemy scaling makes the game feel like "well anyone can do anything!! UwU" when the sense of progression, discovery, and yes, trial and error is more satisfying when there are risks to take, mistakes to be made, and lessons to be learned. It's how role-playing should be.
not really..you just screech explicitives at it in dragon speech and it comes down so you can smash it's face in. Magic and Ranged is actually tacked on and pretty worthless.
God I love this game; perhaps the best part of it though is just how much lore building they do through little things. Sure you can find a +1 sword here or there but you're more likely to find a +1 story with a HISTORY and that's awesome. Something I've always tried to emulate when DMing.
***** I didn't get disappointed, but I wouldn't complain if I got more extra history. But yeah, I just really, really wanted this to be extra history since I love that stuff! (Hope that this explains my comment)
I remember watching these Durlag's Tower episodes when they first got uploaded. Whilst I dont have the income or work environment to make games(which I've wanted to do for a while) I still watch you're channel. I'm making a dungeon for my DnD group (Im a new GM) and remembered about this set of episodes. The changes I made to it after re-watching these 5 videos made it infinitely smoother and more enjoyable to play. For example, the next episode where you talked about Ghasts and the poison trap really started spinning my creative-self. Something I've noticed from watching this channel as a whole is that the episodes, whilst seemingly non-related (to a certain extent) actually interconnect in a creative way. I can't remember which episode(s) you mentioned it but you talked about avoiding backtracking if possible. My dungeon has several hubs (spawned by this series) however they were spread apart due to the scale of the stronghold, so I started thinking to myself ~how do I prevent useless backtracking?~ Within minutes I had my answer. Teleportation circles linking each hub with one another. Two seemingly unrelated episode(s) combined to help create what will hopefully be an enjoyable few sessions. The time and effort everyone puts into this channel is astonishing and I applaud you for being an inspirational beacon to not only game designers, but also GM's
Hey Extra Credits, I've got a special request for you guys. With Yooka-Laylee coming up in early 2017, why don't you guys discuss level design in Banjo-Kazooie, and compare it to Yooka-Laylee? I am totally okay with you doing this in either Extra Credits or Design Club, so please feel free to choose which one you want to do this episode on! In the meantime, do some reasearch on BK while we wait, and keep being awesome!
I find it interesting that one of the very first clever things about Durlag's Tower (it's placement in noob zone) is deliberately removed from the Enhanced Edition. I'm finally getting around to play that version and just discovered that the map can no longer be accessed randomly in the earlier game. Some fans might argue that this is further proof that @beamdog doesn't know what they are doing. Nevermind what I've heard about their very strictly linear campaign and level designs...
Glad to see Design Club back and glad to see BG here. BUT! Durlag's Tower first appears in the 1994 TSR supplement "Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast." The location and entire story of Durlag's Tower appears there. While your comments about the location of the tower as an aspirational space are not incorrect, you've neglected to give due credit to the old guard of TSR (Ed Greenwood, et al.) for placing the tower where it is, at the southern edge of the Wood of Sharp teeth. And, in the process, you've overlooked possibly the best thing about Baldur's Gate's design: that it so effectively translated years of existing tabletop RPG supplements into an enjoyable single player video game experience.
oh man, Baldur's Gate! I remember buying the second game when I was, what, 10 years old? To this day, the main villain of the game is my personal archetype for a pants-shittingly scary villain. Cold, controlling, and absolutely incrompehensible/insane. Honestly, Jon Irenicus and Maugrim from Neverwinter Nights 1 are some of my favorite villains and they are criminally underrated!
6:29: "And if I had infinite time, I'd talk about the upper levels of Durlag's Tower..." Can you be bribed to have more time? Hell, I'd be enthralled to what a whole month's worth of episodes on this dungeon...
IT'S BACK! I love the first 5 design club episodes, and was really disappointed that that's all there was to the series. But now there's more! I understand how much you guys are doing between Extra Credits, Extra History, Extra Frames, and various LPs on Extra Play, but I'd love it if Design Club became a more regular part of the channel.
and there is also a lot of design based episodes on their other channel. i think its suppose to be #1 of this set kinda like their history episodes start at 1 when a new series comes out
I LOVE how you incorporated the Baldur's Gate music into this video. I love that you're covering this! I'm pleasantly surprised you are spending so much time on only one floor on the tower. All the points you've made are excellent.
I can't play Baldur's Gate. I'm 27, but I didn't play it when I was young... I really can't get the UI... You should make an episode of extra credits on aging UIs/controls and their impact on old games.
I heartily second this suggestion. I really wanted to get into both Baldurs Gate and the Ultima series, but they're so old that it's almost a chore to play those.
I didn't play it as a child and i definitely had that same barrier to entry, but i eventually got over it and have played and enjoyed tons of hours of BG1&2 i recommend you try again it's worth it.
Same here. I just needed twenty minutes of gaming until I couldn't stop anymore and after I finished BG 1&2 I went on to Planescape:Torment after that I started Icewind Dale but somehow the screen resolution could not adapt to my screen anymore so I moved on to different games
I don't really see the UI problem either, at least not when playing the Enhanced Edition as shown in the video. I don't know how the original BG1 UI was, but I've played BG1 on the BG2 engine and that UI works perfectly well. The worst part of that UI is definitely the unnecessarily tiny row used for spell selection. It doesn't really matter because the game features a tactical pause on your space bar, but still, modern monitors and resolutions can handle much larger and more user friendly UI elements.
The designers did make a conscious decision to locate Durlag's Tower where they did. However, technically the location and backstory behind Durlag's Tower were already outlined in the 2nd Edition Campaign Setting and Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast (its south of the Woods of Sharp Teeth). Dopplegangers were also part of the existing history of Durlag's Tower (they are brought up in Volo's Guide).
I've played and beaten baldur's gate several times since it's release back in the 2000's. But I have NEVER beaten Durlag's Tower... Until 2019. And I must say, it is one of the most challenging dungeons I've ever had the pleasure of conquering.
Also, the reason why it's okay to put the dangerous Durlag's Tower that "early" in the game (if you can call it that, seeing as how there's no defining direction in Baldur's Gate) isn't because "they test you before you go in", but because this is D&D. D&D is known for impossible challenges. Just try the Temple of Elemental Evil or the Tomb of Horrors. While it's possible to actually complete them, they were actually designed to kill cocky players who didn't know when to cut their losses and run.
Well, Dan, I hope this puts in to context for you the Ash Lake and Painted World from Dark Souls 1. Amusingly, you kept musing about how you were astounded From would "hide" these levels from most of the playerbase.
geeee FINALLY ABOUT TIME !!!! As a future game artist and designer This is the most Important series in my Book and you only made 8 of them in the course of 3 years !!!
Omg! I am actually playing this game for the first time right now! Just saw the fourth part posted, and I was wondering when you started this series! I saw the place at first and left after the merchant guy said it was dangerous, like what you guys said. Should I actually stop watching these videos and play the tower first by myself? These videos are so nice though, and I always love them!
In addition to the points raised here, (I'm not certain if this was the case in BG1, but in BG2 at least) arriving at a new zone will trigger autosave. So if the player arrived at the zone, walked past the merchant, and got destroyed by the two Battle Horrors, they should have an autosave available to undo the deaths. Putting this strong challenge right at the start of the zone minimizes the time wasted, and the autosave minimizes the chance that your "teach by death" moment will wipe out an hour of the player's progress.
My only beef with the tower is that there is nothing in there worth taking. A horde of potions is fine and all, but would it hurt to include something like the Crastomyr as the final reward? Maybe a demonic version when you kill the final (and rather annoying) demon in Ugloth's beard? Saving the world is fine and all, but compensation is better.
I, having played through all of Baldur’s Gate, never even heard about Durlag’s Tower until I saw this video, yet I still managed to get to be a lvl 24 necromancer and win the game somehow.
I love Extra Credits, but I love this series more than nearly all others. You MUST evaluate the rest of the dungeon. I'm going to leave this exact comment on the whole series so you are forced to perform this exercise for the whole she-bang!.
I think a game that does a good job at warning you on what level you need to be to continue is Radiant Historia. I would often go into a new area and run into enemies I just wasn't ready for. It was never where I had to grind for 10 levels. Usually just 2 or 3, 5 at max. But it definitely was a good way to keep the difficulty up without shocking me with something too hard, and the game's battle system ensured there wasn't something I could just spam to beat stronger enemies back.
my first ever encounter with baldurs gate is one of woe. i have barely started and so i brought on the first companions on my travel, the first 2 i spot is on my way to the friendly arm inn, they seem a little wicked but i give it a go and they tell me about the nashkel mines and how they want to go there, but i think to myself ok later, master gorion told me to meet up with people at this place, and so i do. and then these 2 mischevious companions tell me they want to go to nashkel mines quickly and so i do. i get there in one piece allright, but then i start delving into the mines deeper and deeper until i fight the boss of the mines i suppose and he summons a lot of monsters and i try and try again to beat him but it seems impossible when having something like 20 monsters pop up and 1 monster being able to go toe to toe with your tank and beat them feels like it's just too hard to do and so i go out of the boss room and search the area for more experience to maybe level up inside the mine before i take another stab at it. and i'm mostly only lvl 1 with all my characters except for jaheira the first monsters i see is slimes, i start charging at them, and the first thing they do is one-shot khalid, the fighter in the group. and so i think to myself, this is too hard, i need to start looking for other places to see if i can actually get something done. and when i turn to try to start to exit the mines, both the lesser nice characters i had join me at the start of the game who i just brought on as a goof they started fighting my other 2 characters and i could do nothing but watch them pummel each other, but as such jaheira and khalid beat them to death and so it was just me, them, and imoen. now i had to find new characters to put in my party, well i found minsc in nashkel and he seemed fun and i haven't explored to much around nashkel, so i went and explored a little and happened upon branwen by sheer naivity. but minsc got impatient and so i went to try and go do his quest to find this chick, and after a lot of battles with gnolls i found her and i had to choose between branwen, imoen and dynaheir. i let branwen go, and now i started backtracking to find easier quests that don't almost kill me every single time i attempt them. and now i'm around beregost and got extremely unlucky fighting a couple of characters there but i gave it multiple tries and manage to get a victory out of it. but even with all this shenanigans, the only one who has leveled up yet is imoen. and i'm still a farcry away from giving it another go in the nashkel mines, and that's where i am currently. what i've learned, don't go willy nilly in the world, explore every map before you journey forward because you gonna need the experience to earn levels to subsequently earn your freedom to explore. and choose who you bring along more carefully.
As Baldur's Gate is the penultimate fantasy nostalgia and the sequel has the best writing ever seen in D&D... I want you people to do the whole tower someday.
As someone who has played 80 hours of pillars of eternity in the last week i am very excited to hear about baldurs gate since i never played it and it's a mystery to me what kind of a miracle of a game that could cause pillars to be created and still be considered second rate next to baldurs gate for a lot of people.
its because its a massively long game, with so much content its absurd, with challenging events that actually make you play the game, not try to "out number" everything, whether its summoning spam or huge pluses, it doesnt always work. example, first surprise fight most run into, is the first mage guy. he is a twig, but he is also up stairs. if you stealth you can blast him suddenly with your thief, or you can try and rush him with all your members at once to minimize damage, if you try to draw him out, he will nuke whoever you send. many encounters are designed in this way, so you can't game the game, but you can play d&d, and win with smart play and a little effort, instead of trying to run a train through everything in your path adyer grinding somewhere else on gnolls and hobgoblins.
An in-depth look at Durlag's Tower over the next few episodes should make it pretty clear for you. There's nothing in Pillars of Eternity that comes even close!
Honestly, a lot of people that grew up with Baldur's Gate still prefer Pillars of Eternity. For good reason: Durlag's Tower was the exception. A great exception, though.
BG is one of the first modern AAA games. It's well-made, certainly, but it stands out mostly for managing to bring good presentation to the RPG genre. Baldur's Gate also happens to be one of those games that became popular with game developers. Its influence on the CRPG genre can't be understated.
LOVE LOVE LOVE Design Club! So glad you've brought it back. The time and effort that had gone into this is already evident and I can't wait to watch the other parts. Thanks for making these and I hope you'll continue with Design Club in the future!
5:55 I'm really curious to know what exactly is that 'hand-holding quest' that involves a beggar. The only ways I know how to get to Durlag's tower is by map linking and accepting Ike's tourist tour in Ulgoth's Beard. Didn't play the original game, just the EE. Does anybody know?
As an aspiring game designer and writer, this video proved to be incredibly insightful and enjoyable to watch all the way through. My experience with Infinity Engine RPGs may be limited at best, but that hardly precluded me from digesting all the intricate details and analytical bits 'n pieces you meted out in this episode. Never cease to amaze me with your firm grasp of ludology, Extra Credits!
holy shit its baldur's gate
*Leafy
THE RIVERS RUN RED!
Swords! Not words!
Thaught the same... the music gives me a nostalgiagasm :P
Go HOME Minsk. You're DRUNK! listen to the hamster...
DESIGN CLUB IS BACK! Come back every day this week for a detailed look at one of the best dungeons in gaming history: Durlag's Tower from Baldur's Gate.
Thank you guys for making my day. Love you guys.
WOOOOOOOOO DESIGN CLUB I LOVE YOU GUYS 500000000000 MORE TIMES NOW WOOOOOO
yes finally
Its about god dam time.
You guys are a month early for my birthday present! Regardless, thank you!!!
I have a feeling this series will be invaluable to me as a DM
I thought this exact same thing the moment I finished the video. Tips for building challenging but rewarding dungeons, ahoy!
Exactly! Especially because I don't have this expansion, so all of this is just pure theory to me.
I know! I've been playing D&D for all of three weeks and somehow wound up as a DM; I'm grossly under-qualified.
+LittleFugueFlute I will probably have the same fate. Not a lot of people know how to play D&D. I'm probably going to have to teach them *and* DM. I just hope that I am not so bad that I discourage them.
I was in more or less the same boat. I've played a total of 0 hours in 5th edition as a player. Yet I found myself as the DM for 3 more experienced players. Watching Matt Mercer do critical role, and being a born accent and personality mimic made my first effort fun for me and the players. I had a blast getting frustrated by a lawful evil party being lawful evil.
I still haven't played as a player.
I SERVE THE FLAMING FIST!
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
I AM THE LAW! (Party loses 10 Reputation)
You need a new tailor, your cloths are absolutely dreadful!
Yes oh omnipresent authority figure.
It is something most unnatural here, and I want no part of it.
I don't think I've ever been happier to be subscribed to a channel on UA-cam.
could be used to make better fireemblem games too mangs!!
I don't understand how I wasn't subscribbled.
As a kid, my favourite dungeon was the Imperial city sewer in Oblivion. Looking back it isn't anything particularly amazing but it blew my mind when I was younger that the designers had created a system that connected the entire city together. I planned theft and robberies of various houses and invisioned myself making my get away in the sewers. So imagine when I discovered the game had a thieves guild. I imagine if I'd already discovered the thieves guild before the sewer system it would've had a lessened impact.
Back in the ancient days of tabletop D&D when I grew up, my absolute favorite game module was Fez I the original... The Wizard's Vale. The time I played it (instead of the 3 times I ran it) I was the four legged dude (attempting to avoid spoilers). And we came up with three quite novel ways of avoiding paying the bridge guards.
All the greater, given that the Thieves' Guild questline in Oblivion is probably the strongest in any of the Elder Scrolls series.
A BALDUR'S GATE EXTRA CREDITS VIDEO!? All my dreams have come true.
*grabs coffee* This will be a good week.
Is this suddenly a "questions only" game?
Coffee is love... coffee is life..
one tea plz
+Green Lemon what kind? i have english breakfast, Darjeeling with orange, green, gunpowder, white green, African black, and an earl grey with lemon
Damn You EC I had a salary to make and stuff! My landlord's gonna be pissed... again.
I just finished this. It was incredible and a great example of prime BioWare. They were so good.. they were legendary.
That Baldur's Gate theme still kills me.
Broooo... not many other game themes hit quite like BG1
I'm normally no fan of retroperspective romanticizing, but the Baldurs Gate series was, even compared to great direct and spiritual successors, the pinacle of isometric RPGs. Even yet I'm still intrigued by the atmosphere of the games. So thanks for the video!
I've been meaning to play it. And about a zillion other games. Maybe I should finish Space Quest first, though...
+Timothy McLean I began my first adventure when I way about 10 and never really got to finish it (or even get halfway through the story line) for 18 more years. I got to the last level of BG1 (after buying it again on gog.com, the CDs were scratched beyond repair) just one month before my son did it recently. So take your time, these gems won't run away ;)
In this humble Baldur's Gate admirer's humble opinion, Pillars of Eternity is the successor to Baldur's Gate. Everything that makes BG legendary only better, more developed and more refined.
Heck my only criticism of PoE is that I'd prefer it if characters idle animated during convos instead of freezing stiff like they do in Infinity Engine games. Seriously. That's it.
PoE isn't nearly as developed in the magic department, though. To be fair, the spell selection in BG1 is a lot narrower than in BG2, but with a few balance tweaks from modders the spell casting of BG2 becomes absolutely sublime (though it's already beautiful as is). No other game before or ever since has come even close to the depth, diversity and satisfaction as far as magic and spell casting goes.
Leiska86 Ah, right. I knew I was missing something. Yeah. PoE could certainly benefit from BGs much more robust magic system. Apparently Obsidian realizes this, which is why their successor to PoE, Tyranny, looks like it's bound to have a vastly superior magic system- even allows players to craft their own spells. But yeah, BG's magic - spells, scrolls, wands, potions - is definitely one of the games greatest strengths. All of that was implemented pretty thoroughly from ADnD.
Yes! I LOVE these games so much! So glad to see Baldur's Gate get covered in Design Club. I hadn't even thought about a lot of this stuff before, I'll be super interested in seeing the rest of the Durlag's Tower episodes!
When you come back 5 level s stronger....oh, how easy that must sound to the uninitiated...
Great, now I'm going to re-install Baldur's Gate again, after staying clean for two years. Thanks a lot, Extra Credits.
@Zachary Hare Well, I loved both Original Sin games, so pretty good actually
That initial loop down the left side of the exterior is also a nice bit of environmental design. As the player progresses down the path, they see bits and pieces of the tower pop into view as the shroud of war is removed, similar to how it might feel like if you were traversing the rocky, uneven terrain in person. As you near the bottom of the map and you still haven't seen a courtyard anticipation builds as the scale of the building becomes clearer. Finally, the barren terrain -- with its pools of rain water, lack of vegetation and the absence of a man-made road -- stands in stark contrast with the knowledge that a dwarven-made tower is nearby, which serves to heighten the feeling that you are trespassing on a forgotten place.
Dear Extra Credits please watch Noah Caldwell Gervais' A Thorough Look at Baldur's Gate. Insightful stuff.
Dan Motz no prob man. super awesome stuff.
I didn't knew it. Thanks.
Oh man, an hour and half of baldurs gate goodness. Thanks!
omg omg omg omg Durlag's Tower!? Baldur's Gate!? Designelements the next days? Holy Sh... I'm in! I love this IP, I play every 2 years BG1 or BG2 plus the add ons.
amazing! finally something baldurs gate related!
I'm a simple man. I see a Baldur's Gate 1 video of this quality, I like it. :)
I never comment on youtube, but your point about the tower "being something to strive for" when it is placed super close to the starting location is something I've been saying about The Elder Scrolls series for the past 1 1/2 decades.
Morrowind had an organic feeling to it when you happened to stumble upon a cave or a temple that you couldn't handle at your current level. It made exploring fun and made you want to explore every dungeon in case there was something badass in there. The newer games lose that feeling when everything is scaled to your level.
Why I'm not a fan of modern Elder Scrolls. It's streamlined skill system and enemy scaling makes the game feel like "well anyone can do anything!! UwU" when the sense of progression, discovery, and yes, trial and error is more satisfying when there are risks to take, mistakes to be made, and lessons to be learned. It's how role-playing should be.
Definitely give Enderal for Skyrim a try! The content that team built has exactly the elements you're talking about.
not really..you just screech explicitives at it in dragon speech and it comes down so you can smash it's face in. Magic and Ranged is actually tacked on and pretty worthless.
Yes, another dude thinking about Morrowind while watching this
I FUCKING LOVE BALDUR'S GATE
YES! Design Club is back!
Oh how I have waited for this day that I thought I would never see. So happy to have this back. May it never leave again.
God I love this game; perhaps the best part of it though is just how much lore building they do through little things. Sure you can find a +1 sword here or there but you're more likely to find a +1 story with a HISTORY and that's awesome. Something I've always tried to emulate when DMing.
MY GOD YOU FINALLY DID ANOTHER DESIGN CLUB ... AND ITS DURLAG'S TOWER!!! Thank you!
Thought this was a history episode at first why you got to excite me like that
Baldur's Gate is a significant part of gaming history, so there's that.
Although I knew they keep history orange, I still wanted to believe it was a history video. Alas, still great.
*****
I didn't get disappointed, but I wouldn't complain if I got more extra history.
But yeah, I just really, really wanted this to be extra history since I love that stuff!
(Hope that this explains my comment)
Extra History: Faerun might be the series that would make me decide I needed to support EH's Patreon…
"History isn't purple, silly"
for some reason, out of context, i love this sentence...
I remember watching these Durlag's Tower episodes when they first got uploaded. Whilst I dont have the income or work environment to make games(which I've wanted to do for a while) I still watch you're channel.
I'm making a dungeon for my DnD group (Im a new GM) and remembered about this set of episodes. The changes I made to it after re-watching these 5 videos made it infinitely smoother and more enjoyable to play. For example, the next episode where you talked about Ghasts and the poison trap really started spinning my creative-self.
Something I've noticed from watching this channel as a whole is that the episodes, whilst seemingly non-related (to a certain extent) actually interconnect in a creative way. I can't remember which episode(s) you mentioned it but you talked about avoiding backtracking if possible.
My dungeon has several hubs (spawned by this series) however they were spread apart due to the scale of the stronghold, so I started thinking to myself ~how do I prevent useless backtracking?~ Within minutes I had my answer. Teleportation circles linking each hub with one another. Two seemingly unrelated episode(s) combined to help create what will hopefully be an enjoyable few sessions.
The time and effort everyone puts into this channel is astonishing and I applaud you for being an inspirational beacon to not only game designers, but also GM's
Gatekeeper: "Welcome to the Salty Spitoon. How tough are ya?"
Hey Extra Credits, I've got a special request for you guys. With Yooka-Laylee coming up in early 2017, why don't you guys discuss level design in Banjo-Kazooie, and compare it to Yooka-Laylee? I am totally okay with you doing this in either Extra Credits or Design Club, so please feel free to choose which one you want to do this episode on! In the meantime, do some reasearch on BK while we wait, and keep being awesome!
I find it interesting that one of the very first clever things about Durlag's Tower (it's placement in noob zone) is deliberately removed from the Enhanced Edition. I'm finally getting around to play that version and just discovered that the map can no longer be accessed randomly in the earlier game. Some fans might argue that this is further proof that @beamdog doesn't know what they are doing. Nevermind what I've heard about their very strictly linear campaign and level designs...
Glad to see Design Club back and glad to see BG here. BUT! Durlag's Tower first appears in the 1994 TSR supplement "Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast." The location and entire story of Durlag's Tower appears there. While your comments about the location of the tower as an aspirational space are not incorrect, you've neglected to give due credit to the old guard of TSR (Ed Greenwood, et al.) for placing the tower where it is, at the southern edge of the Wood of Sharp teeth.
And, in the process, you've overlooked possibly the best thing about Baldur's Gate's design: that it so effectively translated years of existing tabletop RPG supplements into an enjoyable single player video game experience.
oh man, Baldur's Gate! I remember buying the second game when I was, what, 10 years old? To this day, the main villain of the game is my personal archetype for a pants-shittingly scary villain. Cold, controlling, and absolutely incrompehensible/insane.
Honestly, Jon Irenicus and Maugrim from Neverwinter Nights 1 are some of my favorite villains and they are criminally underrated!
How is Jon Irenicus underrated? He is brought up every time there's a best villian discussion.
Yup. Irenicus routinely dominates best video game villains top ten lists.
Maugrim?? really ?? he has like 4,5 lines thats all nothing special Irenicus was great... from neverwinter i only remember Aribeth best waifu/villain
Eh, personally I like the main villain of Baldur's Gate 1 far more. Sarevok. That dude just radiates pure evil.
Firecage Sarevok is an effective visual representation of a villain. But lacks nuance. Irenicus is a solid portrayal of both.
thanks i love baldurs gate. my best game of all time. and i am glad you described the feeling i had when i found this tower.
The gatekeepers are the dps check, like Festergut.
Finally! I thought design club would never return!
Great. Now I'm going to have to install this game and play thought the whole thing again.
I have it on Steam so, I'll start over with my Cavalier all over again.
I've got the original CDs of both games and the expansions. That's a lot of game to get though (assuming I can get it to work.
That's also quite a few CDs to ge through!
8 CD's IIRC
Any coincidence that Noah Caldwell-Gervais' Baldur's Gate video just came out? :P
6:29: "And if I had infinite time, I'd talk about the upper levels of Durlag's Tower..."
Can you be bribed to have more time? Hell, I'd be enthralled to what a whole month's worth of episodes on this dungeon...
IT'S BACK! I love the first 5 design club episodes, and was really disappointed that that's all there was to the series. But now there's more! I understand how much you guys are doing between Extra Credits, Extra History, Extra Frames, and various LPs on Extra Play, but I'd love it if Design Club became a more regular part of the channel.
"NO
NO
NO
NO"
"Welcome back to design club"
IT THE FIRST EPISODE
It's not :P It used to be a thing but it only had a few episodes before they stopped making it
That makes more sense
thank you for explaining it VoltX
and there is also a lot of design based episodes on their other channel. i think its suppose to be #1 of this set kinda like their history episodes start at 1 when a new series comes out
I came here to complain about how long it's been since they did one of these, but that comment is a more scathing takedown than I could ever muster.
And THIS is a perfect example of why I'm a subscriber to this channel.
Can we eventually get a sequel, or just a revival of these mechanical analysis videos?
The design club series are fantastic! You guys need to do more of these!
I'm so happy this is happening
I LOVE how you incorporated the Baldur's Gate music into this video. I love that you're covering this! I'm pleasantly surprised you are spending so much time on only one floor on the tower. All the points you've made are excellent.
I loved that series I had sadly forgotten it existed. it is by far my favorite series on this channel. Please continue doing it. :D
I can't play Baldur's Gate. I'm 27, but I didn't play it when I was young... I really can't get the UI... You should make an episode of extra credits on aging UIs/controls and their impact on old games.
I heartily second this suggestion. I really wanted to get into both Baldurs Gate and the Ultima series, but they're so old that it's almost a chore to play those.
I didn't play it as a child and i definitely had that same barrier to entry, but i eventually got over it and have played and enjoyed tons of hours of BG1&2 i recommend you try again it's worth it.
Likewise. I remember when this game was new but even then I hated the UI/controls.
Same here. I just needed twenty minutes of gaming until I couldn't stop anymore and after I finished BG 1&2 I went on to Planescape:Torment after that I started Icewind Dale but somehow the screen resolution could not adapt to my screen anymore so I moved on to different games
I don't really see the UI problem either, at least not when playing the Enhanced Edition as shown in the video. I don't know how the original BG1 UI was, but I've played BG1 on the BG2 engine and that UI works perfectly well. The worst part of that UI is definitely the unnecessarily tiny row used for spell selection. It doesn't really matter because the game features a tactical pause on your space bar, but still, modern monitors and resolutions can handle much larger and more user friendly UI elements.
Hooray, Design Club is back! Get hype for Part 2!
Oh god, yes! Baldur's Gate deserves so much attention.
Brilliant. As a game dev, this is what I subbed this channel for!
Forgot how INCREDIBLE the Baulders Gate OST was
FINALLY. I've been waiting years for this I tell you. YEARS!
The designers did make a conscious decision to locate Durlag's Tower where they did. However, technically the location and backstory behind Durlag's Tower were already outlined in the 2nd Edition Campaign Setting and Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast (its south of the Woods of Sharp Teeth).
Dopplegangers were also part of the existing history of Durlag's Tower (they are brought up in Volo's Guide).
I've played and beaten baldur's gate several times since it's release back in the 2000's. But I have NEVER beaten Durlag's Tower... Until 2019. And I must say, it is one of the most challenging dungeons I've ever had the pleasure of conquering.
Also, the reason why it's okay to put the dangerous Durlag's Tower that "early" in the game (if you can call it that, seeing as how there's no defining direction in Baldur's Gate) isn't because "they test you before you go in", but because this is D&D. D&D is known for impossible challenges. Just try the Temple of Elemental Evil or the Tomb of Horrors. While it's possible to actually complete them, they were actually designed to kill cocky players who didn't know when to cut their losses and run.
Well, Dan, I hope this puts in to context for you the Ash Lake and Painted World from Dark Souls 1. Amusingly, you kept musing about how you were astounded From would "hide" these levels from most of the playerbase.
geeee FINALLY ABOUT TIME !!!!
As a future game artist and designer This is the most Important series in my Book and you only made 8 of them in the course of 3 years !!!
I fucking hate Durlag's Tower. Watcher's Keep is a lot more fun and varied. Durlag's Tower is just hard work.
Omg! I am actually playing this game for the first time right now! Just saw the fourth part posted, and I was wondering when you started this series! I saw the place at first and left after the merchant guy said it was dangerous, like what you guys said. Should I actually stop watching these videos and play the tower first by myself? These videos are so nice though, and I always love them!
In addition to the points raised here, (I'm not certain if this was the case in BG1, but in BG2 at least) arriving at a new zone will trigger autosave. So if the player arrived at the zone, walked past the merchant, and got destroyed by the two Battle Horrors, they should have an autosave available to undo the deaths. Putting this strong challenge right at the start of the zone minimizes the time wasted, and the autosave minimizes the chance that your "teach by death" moment will wipe out an hour of the player's progress.
My only beef with the tower is that there is nothing in there worth taking. A horde of potions is fine and all, but would it hurt to include something like the Crastomyr as the final reward? Maybe a demonic version when you kill the final (and rather annoying) demon in Ugloth's beard?
Saving the world is fine and all, but compensation is better.
I, having played through all of Baldur’s Gate, never even heard about Durlag’s Tower until I saw this video, yet I still managed to get to be a lvl 24 necromancer and win the game somehow.
DESIGN CLUB!!! This was one of my favorite series that EC has made.
nice! Im actually replaying the series from scratch and im on Durlag's Tower. Keep up the good content.:)
I love Extra Credits, but I love this series more than nearly all others. You MUST evaluate the rest of the dungeon. I'm going to leave this exact comment on the whole series so you are forced to perform this exercise for the whole she-bang!.
I think a game that does a good job at warning you on what level you need to be to continue is Radiant Historia. I would often go into a new area and run into enemies I just wasn't ready for. It was never where I had to grind for 10 levels. Usually just 2 or 3, 5 at max. But it definitely was a good way to keep the difficulty up without shocking me with something too hard, and the game's battle system ensured there wasn't something I could just spam to beat stronger enemies back.
Oh god, that music is so fucking good. Baldurs Gate 1 was supreme (personally much preffered it to BG2) Memories... :D
The Design Club videos are still some of my favorites. Coming back here for the release of BG3.
I was actually just playing this game once again. XD
A very fine example of good game design! It was tough, but soooo fun!
my first ever encounter with baldurs gate is one of woe.
i have barely started and so i brought on the first companions on my travel, the first 2 i spot is on my way to the friendly arm inn, they seem a little wicked but i give it a go and they tell me about the nashkel mines and how they want to go there, but i think to myself ok later, master gorion told me to meet up with people at this place, and so i do.
and then these 2 mischevious companions tell me they want to go to nashkel mines quickly and so i do. i get there in one piece allright, but then i start delving into the mines deeper and deeper until i fight the boss of the mines i suppose and he summons a lot of monsters and i try and try again to beat him but it seems impossible when having something like 20 monsters pop up and 1 monster being able to go toe to toe with your tank and beat them feels like it's just too hard to do and so i go out of the boss room and search the area for more experience to maybe level up inside the mine before i take another stab at it.
and i'm mostly only lvl 1 with all my characters except for jaheira
the first monsters i see is slimes, i start charging at them, and the first thing they do is one-shot khalid, the fighter in the group.
and so i think to myself, this is too hard, i need to start looking for other places to see if i can actually get something done.
and when i turn to try to start to exit the mines, both the lesser nice characters i had join me at the start of the game who i just brought on as a goof they started fighting my other 2 characters and i could do nothing but watch them pummel each other, but as such jaheira and khalid beat them to death and so it was just me, them, and imoen.
now i had to find new characters to put in my party, well i found minsc in nashkel and he seemed fun and i haven't explored to much around nashkel, so i went and explored a little and happened upon branwen by sheer naivity.
but minsc got impatient and so i went to try and go do his quest to find this chick, and after a lot of battles with gnolls i found her and i had to choose between branwen, imoen and dynaheir.
i let branwen go, and now i started backtracking to find easier quests that don't almost kill me every single time i attempt them. and now i'm around beregost and got extremely unlucky fighting a couple of characters there but i gave it multiple tries and manage to get a victory out of it. but even with all this shenanigans, the only one who has leveled up yet is imoen. and i'm still a farcry away from giving it another go in the nashkel mines, and that's where i am currently.
what i've learned, don't go willy nilly in the world, explore every map before you journey forward because you gonna need the experience to earn levels to subsequently earn your freedom to explore.
and choose who you bring along more carefully.
As Baldur's Gate is the penultimate fantasy nostalgia and the sequel has the best writing ever seen in D&D... I want you people to do the whole tower someday.
How bout a Let's Play Baldurs Gate, eh Danno?
How bout a Let's Play Baldurs Gate, eh Danno?
just finished the tower yesterday, I feel so strong now !
I actually stopped playing Baldur's Gate on one of my playthroughs in Durlag's Tower because it was too annoying lol
As someone who has played 80 hours of pillars of eternity in the last week i am very excited to hear about baldurs gate since i never played it and it's a mystery to me what kind of a miracle of a game that could cause pillars to be created and still be considered second rate next to baldurs gate for a lot of people.
its because its a massively long game, with so much content its absurd, with challenging events that actually make you play the game, not try to "out number" everything, whether its summoning spam or huge pluses, it doesnt always work. example, first surprise fight most run into, is the first mage guy. he is a twig, but he is also up stairs. if you stealth you can blast him suddenly with your thief, or you can try and rush him with all your members at once to minimize damage, if you try to draw him out, he will nuke whoever you send. many encounters are designed in this way, so you can't game the game, but you can play d&d, and win with smart play and a little effort, instead of trying to run a train through everything in your path adyer grinding somewhere else on gnolls and hobgoblins.
An in-depth look at Durlag's Tower over the next few episodes should make it pretty clear for you. There's nothing in Pillars of Eternity that comes even close!
Honestly, a lot of people that grew up with Baldur's Gate still prefer Pillars of Eternity. For good reason: Durlag's Tower was the exception.
A great exception, though.
BG is one of the first modern AAA games. It's well-made, certainly, but it stands out mostly for managing to bring good presentation to the RPG genre.
Baldur's Gate also happens to be one of those games that became popular with game developers. Its influence on the CRPG genre can't be understated.
next to Baldurs Gate II. BG1 pales in comparison
you know, even though this is applied to video games, I do apply a lot of what I learn into D&D and mutants and Masterminds.
Here is hoping that you guys have time to talk all about Durlag's Tower later on. Maybe Extra Play or something
I got owned by the Battle Horrors and when I saw them right before you fight that mage I was like oh god. Battle Horrors are pretty horrifying.
queued the video up, walked off to shave while listening, heard the music, grinned...
Would totally watch a video about the history of Durlags tower :o Extra (fantasy) History?
Promises to be very interesting. This is food for thought for table top Dungeons & Dragons as well.
LOVE LOVE LOVE Design Club! So glad you've brought it back. The time and effort that had gone into this is already evident and I can't wait to watch the other parts. Thanks for making these and I hope you'll continue with Design Club in the future!
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!"
I also wonder if the fact that it's placed next to the power-leveling area of the basilisks is a coincidence.
Not even going to mention in passing that it's been three months shy of two full years since the last Design Club episode?
Design Club is doing an mini series on the best dungeon in Baldurs Gate?
Did my pants just shrink?
Even as a lvl7 and 8 the tower proved to be a challenge. Excepte for some regular ennemies
5:55 I'm really curious to know what exactly is that 'hand-holding quest' that involves a beggar. The only ways I know how to get to Durlag's tower is by map linking and accepting Ike's tourist tour in Ulgoth's Beard. Didn't play the original game, just the EE. Does anybody know?
There's a dwarf in the Inn that sends you there to retrieve the dagger you get towards the end of the dungeon's basement floors.
Kinda a shame they moved it in the Enhanced Edition
Olivia Williams Didnt like that at all with the new update
YOU HAD THE LIKE AT "5 episodes for ONE level"!
oh man, im so pumped for this week. Great start! Cant wait to see the rest of the videos this week.
Something must be wrong with my eyes. The title says that this is a Design Club episode.
Karazhan from World of Warcraft should be amazing!
Arghhh! Infinate likes not possible >:D
I honestly found this dungeon more difficult than the last fight
Best game ever? Easy to 5. The late 90s had some real heavy hitters.
As someone who runs D&D games, this series is going to be exciting!
there needs to be more episodes design club!! I love it :)
As an aspiring game designer and writer, this video proved to be incredibly insightful and enjoyable to watch all the way through. My experience with Infinity Engine RPGs may be limited at best, but that hardly precluded me from digesting all the intricate details and analytical bits 'n pieces you meted out in this episode. Never cease to amaze me with your firm grasp of ludology, Extra Credits!