Species 8472 must be stopped.

Scorpion pt1

[@danielclawson2099]

I always thought the Borg was more frightening as a collective, without a Queen. And, the original voice used during the 90's captures my fear of them more than the newer ones.

[@Mayrego]

Yeah, the idea of a "queen" really killed the whole concept of them for me. Ruined the whole idea. :(

[@urmo345]

It was , because the queen was their weakness that was ultimately exploited to destroy the Borg. I think the original Borg, without single brain, was too powerful for producers so they invented this silly Queen.

[@billlyons7024]

Hive minds don't read well for TV. You need a villain with a specific look and personality to keep people watching. I am not a fan of the queen either, but I understand why she's on the show.

[@danielclawson2099]

@@billlyons7024 I concede your point: an individual to focus on is better drama for entertainment.

[@casbot71]

​@@billlyons7024That was why they introduced her for the movie, for casual non Trek audiences.
But they could have just made a Locutus mark 2.
And use Dr Pulaski (visiting and caught in the action) as the victim.

[@astraloutlaw6549]

Janeway: What's going on?
Borg: We are having our asses handed to us.

[@trekjudas]

Species 8472 were so awesome! They deserved better!

[@StefenHudson]

This is one of my favorite Borg voiceovers. I also notice that when they talk the sound of the cube is amplified.

[@bleedinglove860790]

😂😂😂😂😂lol I don’t

[@stratfordbaby]

The Borg could've sent Voyager to the other side of their space or farther, using a transwarp conduit, but that would have ended the series quite quickly.

[@danielclawson2099]

Considering what a thorn the Voyager was to both the Borg and everyone else on their way home, to say nothing of the series finale and revelations from the last season of Picard... The Borg would have been much better off just bringing Voyager home themselves.
I never understood why Janeway was promoted over Picard in Nemesis... Until I remembered that Picard had been Involuntarily assimilated, nearly leading to the overthrow of the Federation... and that Janeway had been Voluntarily assimilated, nearly leading to the overthrow of the Borg... along with bringing her crew and lots of new tech home.

[@seanwolslau-holdren6731]

Not to mention, a trans warp conduit puts a lot of gravitational stress on a borg cube, so they’d compensate by projecting a structural integrity field ahead of the cube before entering it. Plus, Arturis and his quantum slipstream drive was partly based on borg technology. Some borg technology and federation tech weren’t meant to work together.

[@Anthyrion]

@@danielclawson2099 Not to mention, that Kirk advised Picard not accepting a promotion. As long as he sits in the Captains chair of a Starship, he can make a difference out there.

[@danielclawson2099]

@@Anthyrion So, with Picard being an ambassador in the Picard series, is this Picard (the character) giving up on making change? Or on the series giving up on the idea of Picard (again, the character) making change?

[@Anthyrion]

@@danielclawson2099 The Picard Series is a completly mess with the timeline and the background of the Federation anyway. At some point in the history, Picard must've accepted a promotion to the rank of Admiral. And it is also never explained, what happend after Nemesis

[@kalyana9705]

If the Borg are in danger of being defeated, and Voyager also had the ability to fight back against species 8472, then they would have been better off waiting a few more months to have the Borg completely wiped out and then use their space conduits to get back home.
This would have eliminated humanity's biggest threat!

[@Nala15-Artist]

One risky fricking gamble.

[@icer1249]

How is voyager, 1 ship with no allies going to spread the technology? 8472 can appear almost anywhere at any time destroy a system and move on. Voyager would have to cross the now empty Borg space with no hope of meeting anyone if they even have the resources to make ot through while 8472 just wipes out everyone.

[@walesbkb]

For all they knew 8472 would have then proceeded with everything else after finishing the Borg.

[@kalyana9705]

@@walesbkb at which point they could then threaten 8472 with their weapon and get them to back off, just as they actually did.

[@walesbkb]

@@kalyana9705 there''s no guarantee they wouldn't have adapted to the weapon or avoided it in some way.

[@akshin1556]

I was genuinely surprised that her plan worked.
I didn't think that the Borg were even capable of being reasoned with.

[@HHopebringer]

Desperation doesn't begin to describe the Borg here. They poked a hornet nest, after all.

[@jold3174]

The Borg were terrified

[@re1010]

When you break a person/Hive view, they begin to look through other avenues.
I'd say successfully resistancing, being too difficult to assimilate, and also wiping them out in seconds is a pretty good way to shatter the Borg's view.

[@iamski]

Amazing what the powers of a retconning writer can do, huh....

[@yamato6114]

Then again this was a pretty good way to showcase the borg’s ultimate flaw. Their obsession with assimilating everything in sight led them to recklessly engage species 8472, not thinking of the possibility that a species that can’t be assimilated exists.

[@larryjohnston5519]

Plot hole, they have trans warp, the borg could have used it to take Voyager to sector 001 in no time and fulfil the agreement.

[@jimtaylor294]

Maybe this's the Borg playing hardball, as Transwarp travel still takes time.

[@vulcan0018]

I too thought of that, the borg could have empty the some part of the cube, park voyager inside, transwarp to the edge of federation space with other cubes as escort.
But maybe transwarp is fast; but "not that fast, or not fast enough" in borg standard.
Also the borg being borg, they want it quick and efficient.

[@imperium3556]

Maybe transwarp wasn't working properly in that area of space, because of all the negative space wedgies caused by Species 8472 invading from another dimension? It's Trek, so seems fitting to justify a plot hole with technobabble.

[@colinantink9094]

The Borg were shown to be able to sustain warp 9.9 almost indefinitely. Even without trans warp that’s still one hell of a speed boost over voyagers average cruise speed of warp 6. Could have got them across their space fairly fast even with standard warp drive.

[@larryjohnston5519]

@@imperium3556 the fact is the transwarp was not even brought into the conversation or even discussed it could have been used I just don't think the writers of the episode thought of it at the time

[@herberttorojr7640]

The Borg felt way more intense and terrifying in the next generation then in Voyager. From the time the enterprise encounters them for the first time to the massacre at wolf 359 to first contact you felt that chill down your spin

[@mikejohnson3387]

which is why I stop after Scorpion. It pretty much becomes fan fiction after this ep.

[@rowlandbuck2703]

I find the Borg absolutely boring in TNG these days. It was great for its time. But I personally love the borg content in Voyager.

[@oneupkoopa4980]

There is always a bigger badder fish. The Borg was totally living up to what they do. Like Picard did in TNG... they were put in their place and their backs against the wall.

[@k.t.1641]

Sucks for you. Voyager had some great episodes. If you hated it why did you even upload it??

[@robjackson5245]

@@k.t.1641 Just cause he's criticizing the Borg's pussification doesn't mean he hates "Voyager." "Voyager" was excellent. A little too stiffy in a "Frasier"-esque way but it made it unique usually cause of The Doctor. The Doctor clearly has some influences from Frasier Crane, both of them stiffy and often perfectionist (Picard was one but not really as much as others). At the end of the day all three shows of that era, which was UPN/Warner Bros./WB in nature, would stomp The WB and Tribune.
But I agree they, although "First Contact" started it, contributed the most to the decline of the Borg.

[@spenceress5296]

such a cliffhanger!

[@cullysloy2705]

I now see that Danaerys suffered from Janeway syndrome...

[@alexmccolgan7820]

Thanks for the upload 👍

[@zephyrus001]

It's like the writers at Voyager used the Riddikulus spell on the Borg...and they were never scary ever again. Thanks, Voyager writers!

[@jaredharris1970]

When I saw this episode I thought Jane way and the borg would try to double cross each other

[@spenceress5296]

don't make us beg...bring on seven of nine!!

[@chasing_dragons]

Just imagine a hybrid race of Species 8472 and the Borg. You got a whole franchise right there.

[@zadokprime4831]

Nothing the Borg have to offer... Undine have telepathy, greater mobility, strength, etc. They're like cavemen with spears and fire sticks trying to subdue a dragon.

[@APersonOnYouTubeX]

Star Trek online had a dedicated mission to that

[@APersonOnYouTubeX]

^ god it was terrifying

[@Sheseaus1]

​@@APersonOnUA-camXwhich mission was that?

[@siatelecomsltdLondon]

At long last!
Mary Poppins finally gets the chance to commander a star ship. 🙄🙄

[@BlololzSec]

She was wrong to make this decision. She shouldn't have worked with the Borg. The Borg would be wiped out then I'm sure at least one telepathic alien throughout the entire quadrants would have made it clear, they're not all Borg. Not all alike, groups, tribes, races etc etc
Perhaps even the dinosaur race would have the tech to communicate. The dinosaur people.

[@paulcoy9060]

Is this sped up? Tuvok and Chakotay sound too high-pitched.

[@adamlis9321]

Since the Borg have now become Federation friendlies thanks to Picard, how about bringing back a merciless Species 8742? Maybe they go alone or join the Dominion for a new assault into Federation space?

[@robjackson5245]

The Borg were never friendlies. But they were weakened in "First Contact" and on "Voyager" and became pussies but they were a vicious enemy (and probably more sinister, in a bad way because the true Borg on "TNG" were above petty emotion even if they were vicious and arrogant).

[@jayjohn9680]

Itd be funny if janeway agreed to give the technology and then boom… the borg bumrush her straight into assimilation

[@jleonas]

If the Borg assimilated Voyager and her crew, wouldn’t they gain the information they have on 8472?

[@Salty_Balls]

I think it was said they put all the data into the Doctor's database and he said he'd delete his program if the borg tried to take Voyager by force.

[@Redshirt434]

The data yes, but would they have put it to good use? Take Seven of Nine. With all her Borg knowledge, it was her Human ingenuity later on that saves Voyager numerous times.

[@scotty101ire]

Best show with the best stories and the best crew with the best single character 7 of 9 and the second best captain cut down in its prime and replaced by total shit 15 years later and 95% of the star trek has been total horse bollox

[@hextoken]

Typical Federation mistake.

[@danielcowan4901]

I like how janeway is like "raise shields". Like that'll stop the borg

[@joeridestrijcker445]

it also didn't prevent the Borg from transporting her to the cube (assuming the shields were still up while the tractor beam was locked on)

[@jmichaelramirez2510]

Never made sense to me that the Hirogen could stand up to species 8472 but the Borg couldn't.

[@mytube650]

2:03 with transwarp I’d think they could make it back to earth within a few days at most.

[@victorgalashaw3615]

It go to show you there always some out there who can defeat you😮

[@mohanicus]

3:43.....thats a class fly by

[@jeffcarr5174]

If Janeway had just followed the prime directive the Federation’s biggest enemy would have been wiped out and everyone would’ve been happy.

[@raphael4668]

"The weak will perish"
Species 8472, sometime in the 24th century

[@Archedgar]

@@raphael4668 _"Resistance is futile"_
-- *The Borg*
It's obvious which one is worse.

[@Trek001]

So the Borg, who have transwarp abilities, say its too long to give _Voyager_ safe passage?

[@BattlestarDamocles]

They should have been left to eradicate the Borg.

[@MichaelSmith420fu]

Anyone know of a free easy way to watch the episode?

[@fredfredburger5150]

set sail on the high seas

[@JOSEPHMancini-ef8ec]

Monday Through Saturday up at 7 breakfast for 7 nap 9 to 11, Library 11 to 6 Dinner 6 to 9 Gym 9 to 11 Total Cost 31 Next 3 days,
Monday $78 for gas, 61 x 4 244 I will spend 31 x 4 124 plus 78 212 save 34.

[@abdulkornes3088]

plot hole:
borg: our space is vast
janeway: hook us up with a trans warp drive/hub, and we'll be on our way!
8472: leaves the chat

[@fgdj2000]

The Best of Both Worlds and Q Who? And of course Star Trek: First Contact were great, but Voyager managed to make in my opinion the best Borg story we've ever had. It takes a really cool thought experiment and executes it quite amazingly and ultimately gave us one of the best characters in the franchise.

[@cuchulainn3474]

I loved Voyager and liked it much better than STTNG, the original Star Trek and Enterprise. I never watch Deep Space Nine or all of that after Enterprise. I think it was the most enjoyable series. Some really great story lines.

[@Bobaklives]

It’s striking how much better they cliffhanger was for “Best of Both Worlds” after seeing them back-to-back on this channel.

[@TheBigExclusive]

I think the issue is that Voyager isn't in any real danger. No crew members are threatened. This is just them trying to avoid danger.

[@Bitchslapper316]

@@TheBigExclusive There were hardly ever crew members in danger on voyager. Janeway only lost like 15 crew members in the 7 years they were in the delta quadrant and they were few and far apart. That's not saying Janeway was an amazing captain, it just shows the differences in writing between the star trek shows. Janeway was written to always have an easy way out of tough situations and they never had to deal with the consequences of their actions.

[@robjackson5245]

@@Bitchslapper316 I think you're underestimating Janeway. The very fact that she was capable of siding cooperating an enemy such as the Borg because they were in a dire situation against what they perceived to be, one that Picard never had to deal with, and only, to a lesser extent, did Sisko deal with something like this just a few months prior in "In the Pale Moonlight" (siding with a lethal adversary against more advanced evil adversaries such as the Cardassians and Dominion). This episode aired in September 1997, on UPN. The previous episode aired in March or April, earlier, but in first-run syndication (but it was definitely WWOR in New York, the flagship affiliate of the real Warner Bros. network not stupid The WB).
While Species 8472 was clearly not evil, and they only knew at the end, that the Borg started the war, unlike Sisko, though, Janeway had no luxury of time. The Federation in the alpha quadrant was not directly in the Romulan or Dominion/Cardassian warzone unless there was battle. Here Janeway was a in a worse situation cause they were in a warzone directly.

[@robjackson5245]

@@Bitchslapper316 And it shows why this show was not "TNG"-lite at all. This show, part of the wave of "Trek" in the 90s, was the darker militarized era of "Trek." Even "Voyager" had to be dark. Every episode was darkly cinematographicized because of the theme, having to survive to get home. Yes "Voyager" was more family-friendly, warmer, but even "Signs" was warm and family friendly but the theme of hiding out from an invasion of dark demonic aliens makes it dark, so "Voyager" can be dark too. I can even argue that the beautiful sense that "DS9" foreshadowed KIra's bonding with her baby Ezri the entire show makes it not as dark as people think. The darkness of "DS9" came mostly from the Klingons and the politics with the Ferengi and to a decree the Bajorans, given the conflicts, but I think the Bajorans were not the most hateful. The shapeshifter were way more hateful and Odo was affected by this even though he had respect and love for the "DS9" crew.

[@Bitchslapper316]

@@robjackson5245 She sided with an enemy to save her crew, a decision that caused entire civilizations to be wiped out, a decision that was shown to be both morally and tactically wrong in later episodes and she never had to pay a price for it.
Yeah they often put her in dark situations but unlike Picard as Sisko she never had to pay the consequences for those decisions. The writers even joked about this off screen and even put a nod to it in the series finale.
This wasn't a new era of trek either, it was the same writing teams and producers across TNG, DS9 and Voyager.

[@billthompson5644]

This is the episode that made me despise Janeway. If the Borg wouldn't have been invading their space, it wouldn't be having that problem.

[@astraloutlaw6549]

I would agree to that, and Species 8472 was my favorite race, and I hated the Borg so much. But sadly, she had to ally with the Borg since Species 8472 is extremely hostile and wanted to wipe out the galaxy.

[@joemay2640]

Species 8472 kick ass

[@ArK047]

Would have been better if they had hidden what 8472 did to destroy the planet. Better to not play all your cards at once.

[@PassportBrosBusinessClass]

Species 8472 was an extermination squad.
they weren't holding anything back and were there simply to kick ass.

[@unowno123]

Holding back and hiding is futile and irrelevant. You will be assimilated.

[@cleanerben9636]

@@unowno123 the borg are inferior. The weak shall perish!

[@unowno123]

@@cleanerben9636 inferior you say?!
You culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

[@cleanerben9636]

@@unowno123 no, you will be assimilated.

[@tred6292]

What ever happened to the Prime Directive rule “Never interfere in the internal affairs (or wars) of another race”?

[@chuchulainn9275]

After the Battle of Wolf 459, a lot of policies changed at Starfleet.

[@fantasymangacomicvisionary5688]

What do you do if both sides within a War are Extreme Threats to the universe?
I'll tell you what they should've done and that's let 8742 totally wipe out the Borg and then use the technology you have to run 8742 back into their dimension.
Basically the enemy of my enemy is my friend or Tool.

[@BattlestarDamocles]

Heavily influenced by Vorlon ship technology from Babylon 5.

[@raphael4668]

3:27 death star momeny

[@benbartunek7685]

Couldn't the Borg just assimilate the Voyager crew and learn everything anyway? Plot Hole?

[@alijoe2173]

no because the information was on the doctor so if they attacked he could just delete his program did you watch the episode?

[@DrRemulack]

@@alijoe2173 I haven't watched any Voyager in like 20 years.

[@alijoe2173]

@@DrRemulack oh okay lol I would recommend giving it a rewatch it’s really great especially around season 3 I just finished watching scorpion part 2 for the first time

[@jaredharris1970]

The borg couldn’t assimilate 8472 because of 8472 biology their cells were very aggressive against the borg organic physiology from different species the borg need organic tissue to survive

[@joeridestrijcker445]

But in a few hours the EMH was able to reprogram the Borg's own nano-tech to attack/defeat the 8472 cells

[@alexbaxthedarkside]

I always thought that was cool,
species 8472 could combine the power of a dozen or so Bio ships together form an ad-hoc planet busting Super Laser! :O
shame this was about as good as it got, Species 8472 had a pretty strong and promising introduction, a race that could rival the Borg in sheer destructive power did admittedly get me hooked! :)

[@mr.constitution]

ad hoc*

[@MMAGUY13]

I would’ve let 8427 destroy the borg I’d rather be wiped out by 8427 then become a borg robot

[@bojackgrindley6385]

There is always a bigger fish

[@koalabrownie]

Those pesky Vorlons

[@JOSEPHMancini-ef8ec]

I will spend 31 by 6 I will have 30 dollars left over and no God wont spend that much but he does acknowledge that I will never make his famous Trail Mix because we would go to Walmart first,

[@oddities-whatnot]

They dont make sci fi like this anymore these days. Gen Z havent a fucking clue what life is about.

[@nuclearwinter391]

The Borg never negotiated before, why did she not send a shuttle with the message? It's a insane move from Captain Janeway. I remember again why I hated her character, besides her voice.

[@vashonm]

Considering they have trans technology and hubs, they could’ve got them home in 30 minutes! They were lying

[@normanred9212]

8472 were the heroes of Voyager, and just like WW2, the "good" guys helped the wrong side letting evil run free

[@fantasymangacomicvisionary5688]

Who was the Good Guys?

[@damianlee5438]

Please tell me you are not trying to twist history by saying that the outcome of WW2 is anything but the best possible outcome.
If not, well there's plenty of folk in tinfoil hats running around nowadays...

[@Archedgar]

@@damianlee5438 Ok wokie.

[@CaptSakeMangusto]

And that was the moment when Captain Janeway became a genocidal mass murder and a traitor of all Star fleet and Federation's Beliefs. 2m30

[@Bitchslapper316]

If this was modern day trek there would be no less than 12 youtube commentators seething, making videos saying this show sucks and the writers don't understand trek because they didn't mention the transwarp ability.
Luckily it's not and we don't care :)

[@gregthwuen]

The planet was destroyed in a matter of seconds, I don't think they could've prepared for using transwarp or even warp in this time.

[@Bitchslapper316]

@@gregthwuen I meant when they are making the deal with the borg. They say several times that it will take a long time to pass through borg space because it is so vast and that they have to hold the weapon until that time to ensure safety. They can get through all of their space and all the way back to the alpha quadrant in a day if they used the borg transwarp network.

[@gregthwuen]

@@Bitchslapper316 It's the one big technological advantage the Borg have over every other species, so I don't think they would like anyone to know of it, or even share the technology. Escorting the Voyager doesn't really cost them much and it's the only thing the Voyager wants, because they don't even know of the transwarp at this point.

[@Bitchslapper316]

@@gregthwuen Star fleet knew about transwarp conduits already, the enterprise D has entered them. It wouldn't wouldn't have compromised anything having a cube pull voyager through one.

[@gregthwuen]

@@Bitchslapper316 Ok, then I forgot that one.
But I don't think the Borg could've pulled Voyager through their network just by locking onto them with a tractor beam or something similar, they would've had to install the transwarp coil on the ship. And then the Voy just could flee from the Borg with the new technology.

[@davidmjackson7784]

Why do the Left-wing sound and behave just like the Borg? Weird.

[@brbbiobreak]

because you're just not very bright

[@melodiefrances3898]

Shut it right wingnut. No one wants kindergarten level political commentary here.

[@Archedgar]

Because leftoids love orthodoxy & dogma. They are unironically the same as the borg.... as their heroes like mustache man & saddam hussein showed.

[@invictus2578]

You can actually see Picard in the center alcove