I'm so glad it was helpful. When I read a story in the Bible, one of the tools I use is called "narrative criticism." It means approaching the story on its own merit, without having a preconceived idea of how the story is to unfold. I also try to understand the language, too. I'm better with Greek than Hebrew, I'm still learning. May God continue to undergird you in your study. Grace and peace, Joanne
This bible story has not really stood to me before but recently I came across the song The God who sees about Hagar I love . I now understand why a little more thank you.
To whoever created this video it's very important to clarify when you're quoting a biblical scripture and make the reference ⁰ and when you're making a quote from the Koran or a secular source. There's a difference between actual manuscripts that provide real evidence rather than cultural perspective over 1500 to 2000 years later after the actual event which would be what was written in Islamic documents.
I agree with you, which is why I always give the biblical reference when quote scripture. I have never read the Quran, and have never quoted it, to my knowledge.
The person you responded to left that comment on this video and must have been quoting from some other source than scripture. It is right to ask that commenter to reveal the source of their quote.
@@GraceandPeaceJoanne that's what I was thinking. When you really think about the cold hard facts about this story, it's kind of a case of 'calling good evil and evil good'. It was a very dysfunctional self involved choice for Sarah to bring another woman into the situation to get what she wanted. Then blame Abraham when it went sour. Then put hagar and the child out..even with a possibility of death in the wilderness. Plus we know her and Abraham lie. Those choices speak of a terrible heart. Knowing what we know about the promises now, it seems off that Sarah would have the child of promise. Especially when we see Hagar having a deeper relationship with God. I think I need to do even more study on this! I love your channel!
This is one of the many things I love about the Bible--the narrators and writers pull no punches. These are all real people who did good things and bad things. The self-aware and God-aware ones who humbly acknowledged when they'd done bad things and asked for forgiveness from God (and many tried to make reparations to others too, when possible, if the other was willing to receive it) always were restored. It gives me a lot of hope. God's immeasurable patience, willingness to work with us, meet us where we really are, and restore us is such a better message than "Hey, look at these impossibly amazing heroes. Be like them!"
Thank you for the insight into your lecture. NOW I have a bigger scope because of your explanation. Thank you Jesus Christ for your sacrifice for our redemption and salvation. Amen
Now you have a bigger insight. The fact that God had no respecter of persons and made promises to both Ishmael and Abraham proves He had the bigger on-site. Jesus just came to confirm that above all we are to love one another. Know who you serve.
I just realized something. Tamar and Amnon is a parallel story. And she tells Amnon it would be even worse to send her away after what happened. I never understood that before. Why she would think that? But if you consider it a parallel story to hagar, it makes sense. Hagar was made to take part in the relationship and then she was sent away.
A couple of people asked me, a while ago, to do Tamar's story, and I promised I would. I even researched her, but the ache and pain of her story got me in a wrench. But I think I'm finally ready. Stay tuned. Grace and peace, Joanne
According to deuteronomy 21 if Abraham had sinned such as adultery he would have been put to death. :✝ Deuteronomy 21:22 "And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be put to death, and thou hang on a tree.
Abraham did not live under the Law of Moses, but rather the law of his day (which still carried serious consequences for adultery). However, adultery was not measure so much by a man's straying from his marriage, but rather to whom belonged the woman or women he slept with. In this case, Hagar was enslaved, having apparently been given by Pharaoh to Sarah.
Hi I like some of your work I have been watching some of your videos amd on your Facebook too. Abraham was a noahide he followed the noahide laws and I don't think taking woman who was not wife a woman who God respected a lot and accordingly abraham was a friend of God not someone who would use and abuse women. He had been tested by God. Thrown in the furnace by Nimrod. I don't see such a man to have a character portrayed in christian and jewish literature. If you read the oral tradition there is a lot about abraham amd how great he was with God. I dont know what denomination of christian you are but you do refer to the OT a lot. I would like to continue dialogue with you. Thank you
Hello there Abraham was neither a jew nor a chritsian he was a noahide and according to the noanhide laws sexual immorality and adultery were strictly prohibited. Abraham who was a dear friend of God would never commit sexuall immorality or adultery.. besides the bible neither new or old testament does not go into how strong God built his faith amd conviction. So much so that the Fire was not a deterrent for him. So how can you beleive that such an with strong faith will just commit adultery. The bible said he married hagar not committed adultery
According to evn jewish sources Abraham was so powerful as a prophet that even the pharao offering his daughter to Abraham said that she would be better as a bondswoman in t house of a prophet than a princess in this Palace. So she was not given as a bondswoman innthe sense you are making it to be.
Thanks for weighing in, Ron. Hagar was not consulted. As a slave, she had no rights and was expected to comply. Some believe Keturah was Hagar, and that when Sarah died (long after the events in this story) Abraham took Hagar to be his wife (who now was known as Keturah). In Genesis 16, the word that appears as "... gave her to her husband as his -wife-" is the Hebrew word for woman. It could be wife, but in this context not as a wife like Sarah, but at best a concubine. The key phrase, however, to your question is "Sarah...gave her..." Hagar had no say whatsoever
@@GraceandPeaceJoanne I understand what youre saying...but "gave her to him as his wife" means she was his wife, maybe a lesser class wife, but still a wife...and no longer a slave. The key word is "gave" (no longer hers) and the key part of the phrase is "as his wife" (not as his slave/sex slave, but as his wife). Another thing- the hebrew word for concubine wasnt used for Hagar, but it was used for Keturah, who is also named as a wife.
Thank you Ron, am glad you understand what I am saying. Enslaved people, as Hagar had become, have no rights. If the scripture had indicated Hagar had been manumitted, and then she had chosen to marry Abraham (for whatever value of "marry") I would have taught it differently.
First of all he did not just have sex with Hagar. She was not supposed to be the child Bearer, the bbile says she was given as a "WIFE". First of all christians dont have much said in the new testamant about Abraham. They have to extract from the Old testament. You say that ishmael was not to inherit but in deuteronomy 21:15-18 “If a man has two wives, one loved kand the other unloved, and they have borne him children, both the loved and the unloved, and if the firstborn son is of her who is unloved, 16 then it shall be, lon the day he bequeaths his possessions to his sons, that he must not bestow firstborn status on the son of the loved wife in preference to the son of the unloved, the true firstborn.17 says But he shall acknowledge the son of the unloved wife as the firstborn mby giving him a double portion of all that he has, for he nis the beginning of his strength; othe right of the firstborn is his." it seems that Abraham is taken to be very mysogynous in the Bible. Because you marry a woman, you let your wife mistreat her as a mais (she was not a slave a princess in her land), then you tell her do whatever you want with her. Is that the abraham who was the friend of God. The one who was cast in the furnace by the KIng and who god saved. So according to christianity he was an adulterer and a wife hater. Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. Isn't claiming he commited adultery cursing him, and isnt calling his son a wild donkey of a man disrespect and calling his wife all thse names cursing him.
It sounds like you have done a lot of research on this. From what I understand, according to the laws of Abraham's day, it was permitted for a barren wife to give her husband one of her own slaves, and that child would be counted as hers, it would "build her up." The word for "wife" in Hebrew is also "woman," yet from what I understand, there were a number of "tiers" of wifedom that a woman could hold in a man's household. Whatever status Hagar held in Abraham's house, it was not at Sarah's level.
You claim that Hagar was sarai's "slave" that is totally wrong having been a princess in her own land the sages write in the midrash that " In the narrative in Gen. 12:10-20, when Abraham and Sarah went down to Egypt, Sarah was taken to the house of Pharaoh. In response, the Lord afflicted Pharaoh and all his household with mighty plagues. When, in the midrashic amplification, Pharaoh sees the miracles that were performed for Sarah in his house, he gives her his daughter Hagar as a handmaiden. He said: “It would be better for my daughter to be a handmaiden in this house [i.e., Sarah’s] than a noblewoman in another [in the palace in Egypt].” The Rabbis offer an etymological explanation of Hagar’s name: Pharaoh said to Sarah, “This is your reward [agrekh],” as he gave her his daughter as a handmaiden (Gen. Rabbah 45:1). So she was a handmaiden not in the term The bible depicts her and especially not a "slave"
I am what some would call 'trans' denominational. I have worshipped with many different kinds of faith traditions and respect the Lord's work among all God's people.
I have read some material on Hagar's possible royal lineage, and it is an interesting addition to her story. When telling the stories of women from scripture (well, really, anyone in the scriptures) I acknowledge the weight of authority the Bible carries. So, in this case, the Genesis account calls Hagar Sarah's slave, and so I take that lead. Now, it is certainly possible Hagar had been a daughter of Pharaoh, then given to Sarah as a personal aide when Sarah entered Pharaoh's harem. Hagar would have become enslaved, then, when Pharaoh cast Abraham and his household out of Egypt, along with all that Abraham had acquired.
Food For Thought GOD'S Hand was in This . Maybe it looks as Slavery to us . If GOD Himself Had a Hand in This , It was Not Slavery . GOD Himself Took care of Hagar and Ishmael . But Isaac was To Lead Another People Called the Israelites . GOD Knows what He Is Doing . So why question this ??
The answer is found in the theme of the whole book of Genesis: "Joseph said to them, “Don’t be afraid. Am I in the place of God?You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives." Genesis 50:19-20 Slavery is harmful and wrong, but God is able to and does work through human wrongdoing to bring about God's blessing and good.
You offer some great questions, Lola, thank you for asking them. The Hebrew scriptures regularly spoke of God opening and closing wombs. That language is not used in Hagar's narrative, but it does offer one way to understand Ishmael's birth. It is also natural for a young woman to conceive in those circumstances. Hagar did come from idol worshippers, but so did Abraham and Sarah. When God spoke to Abraham (recorded in Genesis 12) we are to understand they both began to worship and follow God alone. Hagar also had at least two personal encounters with God. When Pharaoh gave Abraham many servants, Hagar was among that number, given to Sarah as a personal attendant when Pharaoh took Sarah into the palace (to be his wife). When Pharaoh sent Abraham and Sarah away, they kept all the Egyptian servants Pharaoh had given them. Later, Hagar is described as enslaved, in the scriptures. Hagar's status is not otherwise described in the Bible, but ancient theologians have posited the possibility that she might have been a minor Egyptian princess.
@@GraceandPeaceJoanne Ok but Rebecca came from idol worship and Isaac had to pray for her and it took him 20 years to receive a child. She was a young woman as well.
You are right about Isaac praying for Rebecca. In the passage (Genesis 25) there is no indication of the time lapse between Isaac's prayer and the Lord's answer. The way the passage -reads-, God's answer was immediate, which would seem to indicate that it was Isaac who delayed in praying--that Isaac waited for twenty years before he prayed for his wife. Yes, Rebecca came from idol worship, however, she had a personal encounter with God to whom she prayed. We understand that to mean she now worshipped and followed God alone. The point of these stories is the focus of God's personal involvement in each of these women's lives, God's personal interest in, honoring of, and care for them.
@@GraceandPeaceJoanne when he prayed to God he was 40, he had kids at 60, I can't say he stopped praying and Rebecca inquired of the Lord when she was pregnant not before bc it didn't say so. Didn't say he didn't answer but why would it take 20 years? I'm sorry but can you show scripture on him answering immediately bc I don't recall that. I just read that today.
So, the way to read each of these verses is to treat them as a piece of information that fits on a broad timeline. The narrator is giving us an overview. So imagine the information in this way: 1. Isaac was forty years old when he married, and here is the genealogy of who he married: Rebekah, the daughter of Bethuel. 2. [unwritten, but understood is the passage of time. What happens in these ensuing years is not important to the story, so the narrator does not write of them. We as the readers, however, understand this] 3. Rebekah has not had children in all the years that it would have been natural for women to have children. Isaac remembers his own story well, how his mother had conceived and given birth well after the natural time for women to have children -because God personally intervened-. Therefore, Isaac prays for Rebekah. 4. And God responds! As the readers, we love that Isaac has learned well from the past. (Not in all ways, but at least in this way.) 5. God also personally responds to Rebekah’s prayer by not only explaining why she is experience such turmoil during her pregnancy, but also by prophesying over her sons. We as the readers note God’s honoring of her as an equal and vital partner in her marriage and as a matriarch to the people of Israel.
The Quran never mentions Hagar or Sarah by name. The main difference is that in Muslim traditions Hagar and Ishmael an infant was taken by Abraham to the desert and then left there. Abraham returns later to sacrifice Ishmael (rather than Isaac) after this sacrifice God makes Ishmael Abrahams heir and rewards Sarah with Isaac and then Jacob. In Islam Hagars descendant the Mahdi will reunite the house of Abraham with Sarah descendant Jesus to complete peace on earth.
The way Abraham said--"do with her as you please" tells us that he was UNFIT to be a leader. A leader takes charge and Abraham DID NOT! No ROLE MODEL for sure! I wonder why God chose him!
Thank you for weighing in. Abraham certainly had his flaws and weaknesses, and as you point out, this was a low moment for him and Sarah both. God, mercifully, works in and through flawed people for God's great purposes, and the most remarkable, stand-out feature about Abraha was his willingness to believe in one God, and only one God. Literally everyone around him would have considered that spiritual insanity, and certainly heresy. But Abraham stood firm in his faith that only God was (and is) the one true and living God. It is right for us to be open-eyed about the flaws and failings, the fragility and frailness we see in biblical figures. Their example is not in -everything- but in their example is in matters of faith and follow-through. I feel your frustration! I have felt that with a number of biblical heroes. But that's just it. We need to give people space to be people. Sometimes we do great things to God's glory, and sometimes we do bad things. Thank You God for grace!
--OR it shows that he follows the Lord's commandments to "love thy wife" & delegates appropriately as God will judge us each, accordingly. God does not make mistakes, such as to choose Abraham, even Jesus Christ is born of.
Thank you, yes, there are a number of commentators who what written that. It's possible! If so, she represents a gift of great honor from Pharaoh, when Abraham was in good graces with the Egyptian court. And it would surely have been crushing to her to realize she was to be included in all that Abraham could keep when he was abruptly turned out of Egypt.
I haven't seen any research that says Hagar was Somali. Some theologians from antiquity thought perhaps she was an Egyptian princess, or at least a daughter of Pharaoh (perhaps of a minor wife or concubine). There are two pieces of Biblical evidence scholars point to as Hagar's origins. The first is Genesis 12:15-16, "When the officials of Pharaoh saw her, they praised her to Pharaoh. And the woman was taken into Pharaoh’s house. And for her sake he dealt well with Abram, and he had sheep, oxen, male donkeys, male and female slaves, female donkeys, and camels." (NRSV) We see Pharaoh giving Abram females--women and girls--who were already captives, enslaved, but no nationality is listed. The second is found in Genesis 16:1, " Now Sarai, Abram’s wife, bore him no children. She had an Egyptian slave whose name was Hagar." (NRSV) The designation "Egyptian" could mean that Hagar's nationality was Egyptian, and that is largely how it has been understood. However, there is a possibility the designation "Egyptian" might mean Hagar was simply one of the captives, one of the enslaved females (woman or girl) who Abram had accepted from Pharaoh and kept when he left Egypt, and her nationality was not recorded. We know that in the Ancient Near East it was customary to capture and enslave women and children from conquered nations, and to conscript young men as mercenary soldiers. So there is certainly a possibility she was Somali.
@@GraceandPeaceJoanne dkt think in Abad way but one of sonlai historians was calming that hagar queensheba or balqis and fircoon or فرعون /remesis 2 were all somalis what do you have to say about this please check if somalis have connection to all of these legends
@@GraceandPeaceJoanne dkt think in Abad way but one of sonlai historians was calming that hagar queensheba or balqis and fircoon or فرعون /remesis 2 were all somalis what do you have to say about this please check if somalis have connection to all of these legends
The first video is pretty long, but as I skimmed some of the things you were talking about, it seems clear you have deeply studied this passage. Grace and peace, Joanne
I've known 2 people called Hagar and were both bright redheads with a Norse stature. The Egyptian princes Scotia was of the same blood line and Hagar was just used because see had the same female bloodline needed
Norse and Islam have interacted in history frequently. The dajal and odin. Meritatan, princess scotia, would come from jewish lineage, not Islamic. From solomon and king David. If she's actually from that line. The pharaohs had been Egyptian, nubian and hyksos. Hyksos being jewish is a theory The ottomans and Russia... Islamic were treated better then jewish In Europe historically.
I have copied my comment from last reply... To put it here in open... @Grace and Peace Joanne With all due respect... Jesus was not sacrificed or murdered or anything related to death... This is according to Islam... According to Islam, Prophet Muhammad ﷺ came to re-establish truth and correct the Old Prophetic Books which was written down with some baised mindset of Jews... So anything which is wrong or errors in written books of other religion... God does not have errors in his plans or any religious books sent by him... But in passage of time all the books have gotten some corruption but Quran was not developed any error in 1400+ years... Manuscript is there for this fascinating miracles... Hope you find Islam in your life... I do hope you do check Islam from a Muslim Scholars... 😊
@@Milkchocolate99 you aren’t understanding what you are reading. Islam Is The True Religion, what you are trying to do is take the Hadith out of context. Hell fire will include men and women but majority of them are women and it’s not because the fact that they are women but rather for other reasons, that being said you should know there is a Islamic saying which goes along the lines of “paradise is under the mothers feet” and women and mothers, daughters have a unique position in Islam. You should know that Islam have women their rights and no other relativism has the same level of for women as Islam. Also remember a lot of women will enter paradise as well. Everyone will be judged fairly and ultimately will get what they deserve and no injustice will be done by Allah Almighty.
It is Truth Did Abraham God saved Hagar and Ishmael in the desert? Or that spirit that tempted Jesus in the Wilderness that would Bless Ishmael to become a mighty nations. Question: Do we understand Satan told Jesus to worship him alone doing Jesus tempted Day. .
It sounds like you are asking whether God saved Hagar and Ishmael when they were in the wilderness. The answer is yes, God did save Hagar and Ishmael, and prophesied over Ishmael that his descendants would become a great nation. It also sounds like you are asking whether the Being Who saved Hagar and Ishmael was the same Being who tempted Jesus. If that is your question, the answer is no. God saved Hagar and Ishmael. Satan, God's enemy as well as humankind's enemy, was the one who tempted Jesus during Jesus's forty day ordeal in the wilderness. At the end of Jesus's ordeal, after He had successfully rebuffed all of Satan's attempts, angels came to minister to Jesus. Thank you for asking those questions.
Your third question asks whether Satan asked Jesus to worship Satan alone. The answer is no, that was not what Satan was asking. Satan indicated he had the authority to hand all the kingdoms of earth over to Jesus if Jesus would worship Satan, "Again,the devil took [Jesus] to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. "All this I will give you," he said, "If you will bow down and worship me." (Matthew 4:8-9, NRSV). It did not matter to Satan whether Jesus worshiped Satan alone, or Satan and others. To worship any other than the One True and Living God would have been enough. Jesus wisely said to the Tempter, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written, 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only!'" (Matthew 4:10, NRSV) Thank you for asking, that is an important clarification.
Thank you for taking time to comment, I appreciate that. I've stayed as close to the scriptures as I know how to be, while at the same time taking as close a look at the stories of the women, who are usually maligned--which, in my view, is the unscriptural approach. The truth about Abraham is more complicated than a two-dimensional hero of perfect character and mature faith. When God came to Abraham, in Genesis 12, Abraham had already only sort of obeyed the command of God, for he had first settled in Haran with his father, rather than continue to move on with his own household by God's guidance. Genesis 12 is, in fact, one of the classic ways Scripture's stories are told--go back to Genesis 2 and 3, and you will see what I mean. There is a height of glory than a swift fall into sin. It is to our great blessing that we see Abraham's full story, as well as Hagar's and Sarah's. These are true stories about real people, hallelujah, for it means you and I with all our faults and failings, may also be called friends of God when we come to the Lord in faith.
@@GraceandPeaceJoanne Deborah and Ruth and Esther and YaEL and the bride in Song of Songs and Rachab are spoken well of. We , as women cannot be friends of The Almighty. There are no women with friends in the original Bible. Women have families and neighbors. Think about this.. .. males have an X and a Y chromosome. We as females have 2 Xs. So they have a balance. They can be nurturing and bold. Btw what did you mean by saying that Abraham obtained ill- gotten gains ? There are over 15 million Yehudim in the world. Abraham is our forefather. It’s not a good idea to speak negatively about others’ great great great (etc) grandfather (& grandmother). In Judaism it is taught that Hagar was a princess, daughter of pharaoh.. and she gave up her palace life to be with the people of The Almighty. It’s also taught that Abraham would visit her and Y’shmaEL and when Sarah passed away he went to live with Hagar and had more children with her. Also, both Yitsak and Y’shmaEL together buried their father Abraham. Regarding Wild Donkeys… Samson was wild also .. plus wild donkeys protect all the other livestock on a farm .
I'm sorry to hear that. I do try to balance the sound with the voice in the front and back. Though I can't change the uploaded videos, I will ask some others for their opinion on levels for upcoming videos.
Yes, there are so many different translations, all trying to convey what the Bible is saying. That is why I decided to learn the languages of the Bible, so I could read for myself.
So none of the slavery was on Abraham or Sarah.. The pharaohs had slaves. They gave slaves as gifts. Jewish law stated that slaves still had rights to be seen as human and to be treated right. They won't eat meat unless it's kosher..kosher has to be painless and humane. They didn't treat hagar poorly, and Ishmael was blessed. Abraham is a father of nations. I always figured that meant Abraham and Sarah are father and mother of Judaism, Christianity, and islam. The three are families and Ishmael was foretold to be the wild one against everyone and everyone is against. You can see it subtly with solomon and other significant jewish people being considered islamic not jewish to Muslims.
You are right, the Egyptians had enslaved not only their own people but other conquered people's as well, and this was a cultural.norm throughout the ancient near east. Abraham and Sarah also were no strangers to that cultural milieu and would have been well-versed in the laws and rule of their day. Nevertheless, both Abraham and Sarah, in their own ways, wronged Hagar. The Bible is clear that Sarah mistreated Hagar after Hagar became pregnant, and Abraham refused, as the head of his household, to make it clear to Hagar what her position in the familial hierarchy was (though Sarah had no children, she would remain the matriarch of the household because Hagar was a surrogate mother for Sarah's child). Abraham allowed Sarah to continue to mistreat Hagar. None of the Torah law had yet been written, and those were not the customs of Abraham's day, but you are right in implying the Bible's original audience would have read Abraham's story through that lense. I think one take-away we can have is that God does the extraordinary through ordinary and flawed people. Thanks for writing a thoughtful and informed response, I appreciate it.
Sarah went thru it first so it seems like it’s karma, yet God’s mercy was extended to Hagar because of Abraham, remember Abraham told the Egyptians that Sarah was his sister so he wouldn’t get killed for being the husband,& they still took her and did Lord knows what with her, I’m pretty sure Sarah was very angry and felt worthless so Hagar was retribution from God, we like to make God seem like He’s unfair but He is so fair and unfortunately this is what had to happened, hopefully in the future people will learn to leave God’s children alone and stop using them for a one night stand or else your daughter will be used as a slave and a babymomma, the Egyptians were wrong for taking Sarah, Abraham wasn’t trying to lose his life because you want to have sex with his wife, tf, no man on Earth would, so understand that Sarah was the victim first, nice storytelling.
The stories of both Sarah and Hagar have pathos and tragedy in them, and is so good to see that God had compassion on them both, and destinies for them both. Even when we feel unseen and used by those around us, we can be confident that God sees and knows, and that God is able to bring good put of even the worst situations.
Hagar and Haggai seem like the same person regardless of the gender contradiction. She reminds me also of Muhammads wife. This video is good however its very passionate on women rights not that that's bad I just personally don't think her struggle should be minimized to gender but maximized to family values. The levitical laws were and are extremely controversial as it relates to birth and foreigners. The longterm affects of judaic laws is a bastard race. I encourage people to study orphans of judaism.
@@GraceandPeaceJoanne if you would like you can review Ezra and Nehemiah and think about the emotions of the people they turned down. They became nomads. Which country will take them?
I'm not sure I understand your question, Kk Kk. Though, if you are asking about the basic story of the gospel, then here's how the Apostle John put it, "just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life. “Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him." That's found in the Bible, in the gospel of John, the third chapter (John 3:14-17) In the New Revised Standard Version translation from the Greek. ("Son of Man" refers to Jesus)
You are right, God formally changed the character and presentation of Abram's and Sarai's names in a ceremony that acknowledged the profound change happening in their lives, the establishment of the patriarchal and matriarchal dynasty that would become Israel.
It seems pretty cruel to us today, but I think in his day he was considered a respected member of society. Thankfully, our western culture values individual much more highly, regardless of their position in life
Not necessarily. We should consider too Abraham is Sarah's HUSBAND (in EQUAL partnership marriage, NOT an Islamic type practice having multiple wives, etc.) whom therefore wouldn't likely show ANY care for a slave girl his WIFE is obviously jealous of as any WISE man WOULD leave ALL MATTERS regarding this kind of affair entirely in thier wife's hand UNLESS THEY'RE STUPID (i.e., when he may sleep w/ her, what wealth he may give to the girl or her son THAT BELONGS ALSO TO SARAH, whether he may even speak to the slave after intimacy, as this can be adulterous if it turned sideways on itself, etc.) if just to NOT be condemned regularly for prefering Hagar over Sarah in ANY way, potentially losing their marriage over it otherwise, if Sarah even thinks he loves the slave more than herself as well as Ishmael over their own son, etc. These being natural jealousy issues that occur in love triangles.
Thereupon said the disciples: 'O master, it is thus written in the book of Moses, that in Isaac was the promise made.' Jesus answered, with a groan: 'It is so written, but Moses wrote it not, nor Joshua, but rather our rabbis, who fear not God. Verily I say unto you, that if ye consider the words of the angel Gabriel, ye shall discover the malice of our scribes and doctors. For the angel said: "Abraham, all the world shall know how God loveth thee; but how shall the world know the love that thou bearest to God? Assuredly it is necessary that thou do something for love of God." Abraham answered: "Behold the servant of God, ready to do all that which God shall will." 'Then spake God, saying to Abraham: "Take thy son, thy firstborn Ishmael, and come up the mountain to sacrifice him." How is Isaac firstborn, if when Isaac was born Ishmael was seven years old?' Then said the disciples: 'Clear is the deception of our doctors: Therefore tell us thou the truth, because we know that thou art sent from God.' Then answered Jesus: 'Verily I say unto you, that Satan ever seeketh to annul the laws of God; and therefore he with his followers, hypocrites and evil-doers, the former with false doctrine, the latter with lewd living, to-day have contaminated almost all things, so that scarcely is the truth found. Woe to the hypocrites! for the praises of this world shall turn for them into insults and torments in hell. 'I therefore say unto you that the messenger of God is a splendour that shall give gladness to nearly all that God hath made, for he is adorned with the spirit of understanding and of counsel, the spirit of wisdom and might, the spirit of fear and love, the spirit of prudence and temperance, he is adorned with the spirit of charity and mercy, the spirit of justice and piety, the spirit of gentleness and patience, which he hath received from God three times more than he hath given to all his creatures. O blessed time, when he shall come to the world! Believe me that I have seen him and have done him reverence, even as every prophet hath seen him: seeing that of his spirit God giveth to them prophecy. And when I saw him my soul was filled with consolation, saying: "O Mohammed, God be with thee, and may he make me worthy to untie thy shoelatchet, for obtaining this I shall be a great prophet and holy one of God."' And having said this, Jesus rendered his thanks to God. Next www.sacred-texts.com/isl/gbar/gbar044.htm
Not biblical quote. Is this from the Quran? if so say so. The Quran was written at least fifteen hundred to two thousand years after Abraham.. and Hagar and Ishmael existed. The Old testament would be much more inaccurate of the story. Whatever was written 1500 2000 years later after they lived.
A lot of information here.........what an ugly twist associated with one of the great divine representive of God ! Why do you people put your assumptions in accounts already badly edited in the first place.......wonder if yall know the consequences for that........it 8s misleading to the ignorant and gullible !
I'm sad you didn't like the presentation. Its important to me to hear different points of you, I always can learn from others. Thank you for giving me yours. Grace and peace
The phrase "wild donkey" comes from the Hebrew word פֶּרֶא pereʼ, peh'-reh; or פֶּרֶה pereh in Jeremiah 2:24, and is listed in Strong's Concordance as number H6500. Strong's says פֶּרֶא has a secondary sense of "running wild" like the onager, or donkey. Some translations say "wild ass." The Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon provides all the places where this word shows up: Genesis 16:12; 16:12; Job 6:5; 11:12; 24:5; 39:5; 39:5; Psalm 104:11; Isaiah 32:14; Jeremiah 2:24; 2:24; 2:24; 14:6; 14:6; Hosea 8:9. It is not unusual for ancient words to have a picture embedded in their meaning, as that gives depth to what the word is meant to convey. From what I've read about this word, it's sense is of swiftness and freedom, the life of a nomad, lusty and strong-willed, perhaps not wealthy in human terms, but rather at home in the wild, much like the the onagers that roamed the wilderness of the ancient near east. How would you interpret this Hebrew word?
hagar is a mocker and a villian you are hunting Sara by doing character personality assassination to make Hagar a hero if hager dont have ability then hager gangs targeting Sara Hagar is never a slave of Sara but a competitor
Thank you for taking time to respond, Sara. All of us who are the Lord's have had our good moments and our bad moments. Sarah is certainly heroic in her own way, but what happened with Hagar was not one of Sarah's -or- Abraham's good moments. We understand that from the way God took care of Hagar, and cared for her. It is sad to me that in the end, Hagar and her son walked off the pages of scripture. God was good to them.
She’s was enslaved by the Hebrew-Hyksos, meaning Abraham. It’s 2024, we can stop pretending Hebrews were not the foreign rulers who promised themselves other peoples land and then cursed the people of that land into eternal slave after dehumanizing them (see Palestine and American Indians). Abraham literally means father of many nations. Father, as in, leader. Just like Noah was the “father”. Ham was a Nation, hence, Abram to Abra•ham. Hagar, Ham, was a slave to them. Meaning they were the rulers that was forced out by Kamose and Ahmose I, Thebes King, Ham. I’m so tired of this clear 3000 year old lie.
Thank you for taking the time to talk about Hagars story! Her story is so powerful and there is so much that we can learn from it!
I so agree. And I learned a lot, researching about her. Very thankful I took time to read her story from a fresh perspective.
Thank you for this video.
It’s helping me with understand as I’m studying.
I'm so glad it was helpful.
When I read a story in the Bible, one of the tools I use is called "narrative criticism." It means approaching the story on its own merit, without having a preconceived idea of how the story is to unfold.
I also try to understand the language, too. I'm better with Greek than Hebrew, I'm still learning.
May God continue to undergird you in your study.
Grace and peace, Joanne
My grandmother ❤️🇸🇦 god use us and don’t replace us
This bible story has not really stood to me before but recently I came across the song The God who sees about Hagar I love . I now understand why a little more thank you.
Thank you so much for this beautiful study on Hagar. God bless you 🙏🏻 ❤️
And you, for kind encouragement
To whoever created this video it's very important to clarify when you're quoting a biblical scripture and make the reference ⁰ and when you're making a quote from the Koran or a secular source. There's a difference between actual manuscripts that provide real evidence rather than cultural perspective over 1500 to 2000 years later after the actual event which would be what was written in Islamic documents.
I agree with you, which is why I always give the biblical reference when quote scripture.
I have never read the Quran, and have never quoted it, to my knowledge.
The person you responded to left that comment on this video and must have been quoting from some other source than scripture. It is right to ask that commenter to reveal the source of their quote.
Thank you so much for this;as it has touched my soul
Am so glad God had something in this for you (I learned a lot as I read Hagar's story)
Thrilled to learn Hargar’s story thank you ❤
Grateful for those encouraging words!
Please stop lying, there were no Jews at the time of Abraham. The Jews existed after Isac was born...
Thank you for weighing in an taking the time to air your view
Another interesting thing -- her interactions and relationship with God is totally different than that of Sarah. Very thought provoking.
Agreed, a good observation. Hagar seems much closer to the Lord, who came to her in her darkest hour, not once but twice.
@@GraceandPeaceJoanne that's what I was thinking. When you really think about the cold hard facts about this story, it's kind of a case of 'calling good evil and evil good'.
It was a very dysfunctional self involved choice for Sarah to bring another woman into the situation to get what she wanted. Then blame Abraham when it went sour. Then put hagar and the child out..even with a possibility of death in the wilderness. Plus we know her and Abraham lie. Those choices speak of a terrible heart. Knowing what we know about the promises now, it seems off that Sarah would have the child of promise. Especially when we see Hagar having a deeper relationship with God.
I think I need to do even more study on this!
I love your channel!
This is one of the many things I love about the Bible--the narrators and writers pull no punches. These are all real people who did good things and bad things. The self-aware and God-aware ones who humbly acknowledged when they'd done bad things and asked for forgiveness from God (and many tried to make reparations to others too, when possible, if the other was willing to receive it) always were restored.
It gives me a lot of hope. God's immeasurable patience, willingness to work with us, meet us where we really are, and restore us is such a better message than "Hey, look at these impossibly amazing heroes. Be like them!"
Thank you for the insight into your lecture. NOW I have a bigger scope because of your explanation. Thank you Jesus Christ for your sacrifice for our redemption and salvation. Amen
Amen, Daniel! God's heart is infinitely and eternally great.
Now you have a bigger insight. The fact that God had no respecter of persons and made promises to both Ishmael and Abraham proves He had the bigger on-site. Jesus just came to confirm that above all we are to love one another. Know who you serve.
THANK YOU
Well taught. Thank you❤
Thank you so much!
Muslims celebrate the sacrifice and determination of Hagar and Ishmael every year at Hajj and must complete it at least once in their life.
El Roi, God see's me. Thank you.
J
I just realized something. Tamar and Amnon is a parallel story. And she tells Amnon it would be even worse to send her away after what happened. I never understood that before. Why she would think that?
But if you consider it a parallel story to hagar, it makes sense. Hagar was made to take part in the relationship and then she was sent away.
A couple of people asked me, a while ago, to do Tamar's story, and I promised I would. I even researched her, but the ache and pain of her story got me in a wrench. But I think I'm finally ready. Stay tuned.
Grace and peace, Joanne
Wonderfull and very evocative. Thank you
Thank you, Reuben, warm words of encouragement!
Amen!🙏👑🌹
❤️
God gave Hagar the absuluit honer and a proper human personality then shara which means that her son ismail is loved by God.
According to deuteronomy 21 if Abraham had sinned such as adultery he would have been put to death. :✝ Deuteronomy 21:22 "And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be put to death, and thou hang on a tree.
Abraham did not live under the Law of Moses, but rather the law of his day (which still carried serious consequences for adultery). However, adultery was not measure so much by a man's straying from his marriage, but rather to whom belonged the woman or women he slept with. In this case, Hagar was enslaved, having apparently been given by Pharaoh to Sarah.
Hi I like some of your work I have been watching some of your videos amd on your Facebook too. Abraham was a noahide he followed the noahide laws and I don't think taking woman who was not wife a woman who God respected a lot and accordingly abraham was a friend of God not someone who would use and abuse women. He had been tested by God. Thrown in the furnace by Nimrod. I don't see such a man to have a character portrayed in christian and jewish literature. If you read the oral tradition there is a lot about abraham amd how great he was with God. I dont know what denomination of christian you are but you do refer to the OT a lot. I would like to continue dialogue with you. Thank you
Thank you to you too, you come across as a tboughtful person who loves the study of God and God's people.
Hello there Abraham was neither a jew nor a chritsian he was a noahide and according to the noanhide laws sexual immorality and adultery were strictly prohibited. Abraham who was a dear friend of God would never commit sexuall immorality or adultery.. besides the bible neither new or old testament does not go into how strong God built his faith amd conviction. So much so that the Fire was not a deterrent for him. So how can you beleive that such an with strong faith will just commit adultery. The bible said he married hagar not committed adultery
According to evn jewish sources Abraham was so powerful as a prophet that even the pharao offering his daughter to Abraham said that she would be better as a bondswoman in t house of a prophet than a princess in this Palace. So she was not given as a bondswoman innthe sense you are making it to be.
The Bible says she was his wife...so how was she forced to have sex?
Thanks for weighing in, Ron. Hagar was not consulted. As a slave, she had no rights and was expected to comply.
Some believe Keturah was Hagar, and that when Sarah died (long after the events in this story) Abraham took Hagar to be his wife (who now was known as Keturah).
In Genesis 16, the word that appears as "... gave her to her husband as his -wife-" is the Hebrew word for woman. It could be wife, but in this context not as a wife like Sarah, but at best a concubine.
The key phrase, however, to your question is "Sarah...gave her..." Hagar had no say whatsoever
@@GraceandPeaceJoanne I understand what youre saying...but "gave her to him as his wife" means she was his wife, maybe a lesser class wife, but still a wife...and no longer a slave. The key word is "gave" (no longer hers) and the key part of the phrase is "as his wife" (not as his slave/sex slave, but as his wife). Another thing- the hebrew word for concubine wasnt used for Hagar, but it was used for Keturah, who is also named as a wife.
Thank you Ron, am glad you understand what I am saying. Enslaved people, as Hagar had become, have no rights. If the scripture had indicated Hagar had been manumitted, and then she had chosen to marry Abraham (for whatever value of "marry") I would have taught it differently.
First of all he did not just have sex with Hagar. She was not supposed to be the child Bearer, the bbile says she was given as a "WIFE". First of all christians dont have much said in the new testamant about Abraham. They have to extract from the Old testament. You say that ishmael was not to inherit but in deuteronomy 21:15-18 “If a man has two wives, one loved kand the other unloved, and they have borne him children, both the loved and the unloved, and if the firstborn son is of her who is unloved, 16 then it shall be, lon the day he bequeaths his possessions to his sons, that he must not bestow firstborn status on the son of the loved wife in preference to the son of the unloved, the true firstborn.17 says But he shall acknowledge the son of the unloved wife as the firstborn mby giving him a double portion of all that he has, for he nis the beginning of his strength; othe right of the firstborn is his." it seems that Abraham is taken to be very mysogynous in the Bible. Because you marry a woman, you let your wife mistreat her as a mais (she was not a slave a princess in her land), then you tell her do whatever you want with her. Is that the abraham who was the friend of God. The one who was cast in the furnace by the KIng and who god saved. So according to christianity he was an adulterer and a wife hater. Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. Isn't claiming he commited adultery cursing him, and isnt calling his son a wild donkey of a man disrespect and calling his wife all thse names cursing him.
It sounds like you have done a lot of research on this. From what I understand, according to the laws of Abraham's day, it was permitted for a barren wife to give her husband one of her own slaves, and that child would be counted as hers, it would "build her up."
The word for "wife" in Hebrew is also "woman," yet from what I understand, there were a number of "tiers" of wifedom that a woman could hold in a man's household. Whatever status Hagar held in Abraham's house, it was not at Sarah's level.
do you mind me asking what denomination of christianity you follow
You claim that Hagar was sarai's "slave" that is totally wrong having been a princess in her own land the sages write in the midrash that " In the narrative in Gen. 12:10-20, when Abraham and Sarah went down to Egypt, Sarah was taken to the house of Pharaoh. In response, the Lord afflicted Pharaoh and all his household with mighty plagues. When, in the midrashic amplification, Pharaoh sees the miracles that were performed for Sarah in his house, he gives her his daughter Hagar as a handmaiden. He said: “It would be better for my daughter to be a handmaiden in this house [i.e., Sarah’s] than a noblewoman in another [in the palace in Egypt].” The Rabbis offer an etymological explanation of Hagar’s name: Pharaoh said to Sarah, “This is your reward [agrekh],” as he gave her his daughter as a handmaiden (Gen. Rabbah 45:1). So she was a handmaiden not in the term The bible depicts her and especially not a "slave"
I am what some would call 'trans' denominational. I have worshipped with many different kinds of faith traditions and respect the Lord's work among all God's people.
I have read some material on Hagar's possible royal lineage, and it is an interesting addition to her story.
When telling the stories of women from scripture (well, really, anyone in the scriptures) I acknowledge the weight of authority the Bible carries. So, in this case, the Genesis account calls Hagar Sarah's slave, and so I take that lead.
Now, it is certainly possible Hagar had been a daughter of Pharaoh, then given to Sarah as a personal aide when Sarah entered Pharaoh's harem. Hagar would have become enslaved, then, when Pharaoh cast Abraham and his household out of Egypt, along with all that Abraham had acquired.
Food For Thought
GOD'S Hand was in This . Maybe it looks as Slavery to us . If GOD Himself Had a Hand in This , It was Not Slavery .
GOD Himself Took care of Hagar and Ishmael . But Isaac was To Lead Another People Called the Israelites . GOD Knows what He Is Doing . So why question this ??
The answer is found in the theme of the whole book of Genesis:
"Joseph said to them, “Don’t be afraid. Am I in the place of God?You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives."
Genesis 50:19-20
Slavery is harmful and wrong, but God is able to and does work through human wrongdoing to bring about God's blessing and good.
Proverbs 25:23
JPS Tanakh 1917
The north wind bringeth forth rain, And a backbiting tongue an angry countenance
Why was she able to get pregnant and not Sarah? Hagar came from a line of idol worshippers. And how do you know that she was in the Pharaohs house?
You offer some great questions, Lola, thank you for asking them.
The Hebrew scriptures regularly spoke of God opening and closing wombs. That language is not used in Hagar's narrative, but it does offer one way to understand Ishmael's birth. It is also natural for a young woman to conceive in those circumstances.
Hagar did come from idol worshippers, but so did Abraham and Sarah. When God spoke to Abraham (recorded in Genesis 12) we are to understand they both began to worship and follow God alone. Hagar also had at least two personal encounters with God.
When Pharaoh gave Abraham many servants, Hagar was among that number, given to Sarah as a personal attendant when Pharaoh took Sarah into the palace (to be his wife). When Pharaoh sent Abraham and Sarah away, they kept all the Egyptian servants Pharaoh had given them. Later, Hagar is described as enslaved, in the scriptures.
Hagar's status is not otherwise described in the Bible, but ancient theologians have posited the possibility that she might have been a minor Egyptian princess.
@@GraceandPeaceJoanne Ok but Rebecca came from idol worship and Isaac had to pray for her and it took him 20 years to receive a child. She was a young woman as well.
You are right about Isaac praying for Rebecca. In the passage (Genesis 25) there is no indication of the time lapse between Isaac's prayer and the Lord's answer. The way the passage -reads-, God's answer was immediate, which would seem to indicate that it was Isaac who delayed in praying--that Isaac waited for twenty years before he prayed for his wife.
Yes, Rebecca came from idol worship, however, she had a personal encounter with God to whom she prayed. We understand that to mean she now worshipped and followed God alone.
The point of these stories is the focus of God's personal involvement in each of these women's lives, God's personal interest in, honoring of, and care for them.
@@GraceandPeaceJoanne when he prayed to God he was 40, he had kids at 60, I can't say he stopped praying and Rebecca inquired of the Lord when she was pregnant not before bc it didn't say so. Didn't say he didn't answer but why would it take 20 years? I'm sorry but can you show scripture on him answering immediately bc I don't recall that. I just read that today.
So, the way to read each of these verses is to treat them as a piece of information that fits on a broad timeline. The narrator is giving us an overview. So imagine the information in this way:
1. Isaac was forty years old when he married, and here is the genealogy of who he married: Rebekah, the daughter of Bethuel.
2. [unwritten, but understood is the passage of time. What happens in these ensuing years is not important to the story, so the narrator does not write of them. We as the readers, however, understand this]
3. Rebekah has not had children in all the years that it would have been natural for women to have children. Isaac remembers his own story well, how his mother had conceived and given birth well after the natural time for women to have children -because God personally intervened-. Therefore, Isaac prays for Rebekah.
4. And God responds! As the readers, we love that Isaac has learned well from the past. (Not in all ways, but at least in this way.)
5. God also personally responds to Rebekah’s prayer by not only explaining why she is experience such turmoil during her pregnancy, but also by prophesying over her sons. We as the readers note God’s honoring of her as an equal and vital partner in her marriage and as a matriarch to the people of Israel.
The Quran never mentions Hagar or Sarah by name. The main difference is that in Muslim traditions Hagar and Ishmael an infant was taken by Abraham to the desert and then left there. Abraham returns later to sacrifice Ishmael (rather than Isaac) after this sacrifice God makes Ishmael Abrahams heir and rewards Sarah with Isaac and then Jacob.
In Islam Hagars descendant the Mahdi will reunite the house of Abraham with Sarah descendant Jesus to complete peace on earth.
The way Abraham said--"do with her as you please" tells us that he was UNFIT to be a leader. A leader takes charge and Abraham DID NOT! No ROLE MODEL for sure! I wonder why God chose him!
Thank you for weighing in. Abraham certainly had his flaws and weaknesses, and as you point out, this was a low moment for him and Sarah both.
God, mercifully, works in and through flawed people for God's great purposes, and the most remarkable, stand-out feature about Abraha was his willingness to believe in one God, and only one God. Literally everyone around him would have considered that spiritual insanity, and certainly heresy. But Abraham stood firm in his faith that only God was (and is) the one true and living God.
It is right for us to be open-eyed about the flaws and failings, the fragility and frailness we see in biblical figures. Their example is not in -everything- but in their example is in matters of faith and follow-through.
I feel your frustration! I have felt that with a number of biblical heroes. But that's just it. We need to give people space to be people. Sometimes we do great things to God's glory, and sometimes we do bad things.
Thank You God for grace!
--OR it shows that he follows the Lord's commandments to "love thy wife" & delegates appropriately as God will judge us each, accordingly. God does not make mistakes, such as to choose Abraham, even Jesus Christ is born of.
Hagar was most likely a Egyptian princess...
Thank you, yes, there are a number of commentators who what written that. It's possible! If so, she represents a gift of great honor from Pharaoh, when Abraham was in good graces with the Egyptian court. And it would surely have been crushing to her to realize she was to be included in all that Abraham could keep when he was abruptly turned out of Egypt.
@@GraceandPeaceJoanne a question was hagar somali
I haven't seen any research that says Hagar was Somali. Some theologians from antiquity thought perhaps she was an Egyptian princess, or at least a daughter of Pharaoh (perhaps of a minor wife or concubine).
There are two pieces of Biblical evidence scholars point to as Hagar's origins. The first is Genesis 12:15-16, "When the officials of Pharaoh saw her, they praised her to Pharaoh. And the woman was taken into Pharaoh’s house. And for her sake he dealt well with Abram, and he had sheep, oxen, male donkeys, male and female slaves, female donkeys, and camels." (NRSV) We see Pharaoh giving Abram females--women and girls--who were already captives, enslaved, but no nationality is listed.
The second is found in Genesis 16:1, " Now Sarai, Abram’s wife, bore him no children. She had an Egyptian slave whose name was Hagar." (NRSV) The designation "Egyptian" could mean that Hagar's nationality was Egyptian, and that is largely how it has been understood. However, there is a possibility the designation "Egyptian" might mean Hagar was simply one of the captives, one of the enslaved females (woman or girl) who Abram had accepted from Pharaoh and kept when he left Egypt, and her nationality was not recorded.
We know that in the Ancient Near East it was customary to capture and enslave women and children from conquered nations, and to conscript young men as mercenary soldiers. So there is certainly a possibility she was Somali.
@@GraceandPeaceJoanne dkt think in Abad way but one of sonlai historians was calming that hagar queensheba or balqis and fircoon or فرعون /remesis 2 were all somalis what do you have to say about this please check if somalis have connection to all of these legends
@@GraceandPeaceJoanne dkt think in Abad way but one of sonlai historians was calming that hagar queensheba or balqis and fircoon or فرعون /remesis 2 were all somalis what do you have to say about this please check if somalis have connection to all of these legends
let us think how potent was Abraham he was a very old man
God intervention to the child's cry because of the child's is protected by Abraham covenant...
Hagar (part 1): ua-cam.com/video/YzweCPbX8NI/v-deo.html
Hagar (part 2): ua-cam.com/video/bacnCxKCqDU/v-deo.html
The first video is pretty long, but as I skimmed some of the things you were talking about, it seems clear you have deeply studied this passage. Grace and peace, Joanne
I've known 2 people called Hagar and were both bright redheads with a Norse stature. The Egyptian princes Scotia was of the same blood line and Hagar was just used because see had the same female bloodline needed
That is an interesting piece of information!
Norse and Islam have interacted in history frequently.
The dajal and odin.
Meritatan, princess scotia, would come from jewish lineage, not Islamic.
From solomon and king David.
If she's actually from that line.
The pharaohs had been Egyptian, nubian and hyksos. Hyksos being jewish is a theory
The ottomans and Russia...
Islamic were treated better then jewish In Europe historically.
According to this understanding, is this teaching saying that hagar and ismael did, or did not exist?
In my view, they absolutely did exist and are part of the historical record.
I have copied my comment from last reply... To put it here in open...
@Grace and Peace Joanne With all due respect... Jesus was not sacrificed or murdered or anything related to death... This is according to Islam...
According to Islam, Prophet Muhammad ﷺ came to re-establish truth and correct the Old Prophetic Books which was written down with some baised mindset of Jews... So anything which is wrong or errors in written books of other religion...
God does not have errors in his plans or any religious books sent by him... But in passage of time all the books have gotten some corruption but Quran was not developed any error in 1400+ years...
Manuscript is there for this fascinating miracles...
Hope you find Islam in your life...
I do hope you do check Islam from a Muslim Scholars... 😊
Thank you for weighing in Yaqoob
( Sahih muslim 36:6597 ) says that majority of women will be going to hell. The muslim book was written by men who had hatred towards women
@@Milkchocolate99 you aren’t understanding what you are reading. Islam Is The True Religion, what you are trying to do is take the Hadith out of context. Hell fire will include men and women but majority of them are women and it’s not because the fact that they are women but rather for other reasons, that being said you should know there is a Islamic saying which goes along the lines of “paradise is under the mothers feet” and women and mothers, daughters have a unique position in Islam. You should know that Islam have women their rights and no other relativism has the same level of for women as Islam. Also remember a lot of women will enter paradise as well. Everyone will be judged fairly and ultimately will get what they deserve and no injustice will be done by Allah Almighty.
It is Truth Did Abraham God saved Hagar and Ishmael in the desert?
Or that spirit that tempted Jesus in the Wilderness that would Bless Ishmael to become a mighty nations. Question: Do we understand Satan told Jesus to worship him alone doing Jesus tempted Day.
.
Third Heaven Prophet l am
It sounds like you are asking whether God saved Hagar and Ishmael when they were in the wilderness. The answer is yes, God did save Hagar and Ishmael, and prophesied over Ishmael that his descendants would become a great nation.
It also sounds like you are asking whether the Being Who saved Hagar and Ishmael was the same Being who tempted Jesus. If that is your question, the answer is no. God saved Hagar and Ishmael. Satan, God's enemy as well as humankind's enemy, was the one who tempted Jesus during Jesus's forty day ordeal in the wilderness. At the end of Jesus's ordeal, after He had successfully rebuffed all of Satan's attempts, angels came to minister to Jesus.
Thank you for asking those questions.
Your third question asks whether Satan asked Jesus to worship Satan alone. The answer is no, that was not what Satan was asking. Satan indicated he had the authority to hand all the kingdoms of earth over to Jesus if Jesus would worship Satan, "Again,the devil took [Jesus] to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. "All this I will give you," he said, "If you will bow down and worship me." (Matthew 4:8-9, NRSV).
It did not matter to Satan whether Jesus worshiped Satan alone, or Satan and others. To worship any other than the One True and Living God would have been enough.
Jesus wisely said to the Tempter, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written, 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only!'" (Matthew 4:10, NRSV)
Thank you for asking, that is an important clarification.
I don’t think The Almighty appreciates you calling his friend Abraham bad things. So many things that you said are not scriptural.
Thank you for taking time to comment, I appreciate that. I've stayed as close to the scriptures as I know how to be, while at the same time taking as close a look at the stories of the women, who are usually maligned--which, in my view, is the unscriptural approach.
The truth about Abraham is more complicated than a two-dimensional hero of perfect character and mature faith. When God came to Abraham, in Genesis 12, Abraham had already only sort of obeyed the command of God, for he had first settled in Haran with his father, rather than continue to move on with his own household by God's guidance.
Genesis 12 is, in fact, one of the classic ways Scripture's stories are told--go back to Genesis 2 and 3, and you will see what I mean. There is a height of glory than a swift fall into sin.
It is to our great blessing that we see Abraham's full story, as well as Hagar's and Sarah's. These are true stories about real people, hallelujah, for it means you and I with all our faults and failings, may also be called friends of God when we come to the Lord in faith.
@@GraceandPeaceJoanne Deborah and Ruth and Esther and YaEL and the bride in Song of Songs and Rachab are spoken well of. We , as women cannot be friends of The Almighty. There are no women with friends in the original Bible. Women have families and neighbors. Think about this.. .. males have an X and a Y chromosome. We as females have 2 Xs. So they have a balance. They can be nurturing and bold.
Btw what did you mean by saying that Abraham obtained ill- gotten gains ?
There are over 15 million Yehudim in the world. Abraham is our forefather. It’s not a good idea to speak negatively about others’ great great great (etc) grandfather (& grandmother). In Judaism it is taught that Hagar was a princess, daughter of pharaoh.. and she gave up her palace life to be with the people of The Almighty. It’s also taught that Abraham would visit her and Y’shmaEL and when Sarah passed away he went to live with Hagar and had more children with her. Also, both Yitsak and Y’shmaEL together buried their father Abraham.
Regarding Wild Donkeys… Samson was wild also .. plus wild donkeys protect all the other livestock on a farm .
The stupid music drowns the voice what's the point.
I'm sorry to hear that. I do try to balance the sound with the voice in the front and back.
Though I can't change the uploaded videos, I will ask some others for their opinion on levels for upcoming videos.
There are so many bibles,what is the truth, different version our one put words, Jesus,black or white, makes one curious
Yes, there are so many different translations, all trying to convey what the Bible is saying. That is why I decided to learn the languages of the Bible, so I could read for myself.
So none of the slavery was on Abraham or Sarah..
The pharaohs had slaves. They gave slaves as gifts.
Jewish law stated that slaves still had rights to be seen as human and to be treated right.
They won't eat meat unless it's kosher..kosher has to be painless and humane.
They didn't treat hagar poorly, and Ishmael was blessed.
Abraham is a father of nations. I always figured that meant Abraham and Sarah are father and mother of Judaism, Christianity, and islam.
The three are families and Ishmael was foretold to be the wild one against everyone and everyone is against.
You can see it subtly with solomon and other significant jewish people being considered islamic not jewish to Muslims.
You are right, the Egyptians had enslaved not only their own people but other conquered people's as well, and this was a cultural.norm throughout the ancient near east. Abraham and Sarah also were no strangers to that cultural milieu and would have been well-versed in the laws and rule of their day.
Nevertheless, both Abraham and Sarah, in their own ways, wronged Hagar. The Bible is clear that Sarah mistreated Hagar after Hagar became pregnant, and Abraham refused, as the head of his household, to make it clear to Hagar what her position in the familial hierarchy was (though Sarah had no children, she would remain the matriarch of the household because Hagar was a surrogate mother for Sarah's child). Abraham allowed Sarah to continue to mistreat Hagar.
None of the Torah law had yet been written, and those were not the customs of Abraham's day, but you are right in implying the Bible's original audience would have read Abraham's story through that lense.
I think one take-away we can have is that God does the extraordinary through ordinary and flawed people.
Thanks for writing a thoughtful and informed response, I appreciate it.
But no one knows the name of PHARAOH (Hears fathers name)
Sarah went thru it first so it seems like it’s karma, yet God’s mercy was extended to Hagar because of Abraham, remember Abraham told the Egyptians that Sarah was his sister so he wouldn’t get killed for being the husband,& they still took her and did Lord knows what with her, I’m pretty sure Sarah was very angry and felt worthless so Hagar was retribution from God, we like to make God seem like He’s unfair but He is so fair and unfortunately this is what had to happened, hopefully in the future people will learn to leave God’s children alone and stop using them for a one night stand or else your daughter will be used as a slave and a babymomma, the Egyptians were wrong for taking Sarah, Abraham wasn’t trying to lose his life because you want to have sex with his wife, tf, no man on Earth would, so understand that Sarah was the victim first, nice storytelling.
The stories of both Sarah and Hagar have pathos and tragedy in them, and is so good to see that God had compassion on them both, and destinies for them both. Even when we feel unseen and used by those around us, we can be confident that God sees and knows, and that God is able to bring good put of even the worst situations.
Ishmael was not the child of promise, Isaac was.
Exactly so.
Hagar and Haggai seem like the same person regardless of the gender contradiction. She reminds me also of Muhammads wife. This video is good however its very passionate on women rights not that that's bad I just personally don't think her struggle should be minimized to gender but maximized to family values. The levitical laws were and are extremely controversial as it relates to birth and foreigners. The longterm affects of judaic laws is a bastard race. I encourage people to study orphans of judaism.
Thank you for explaining more of view. Grace and peace
@@GraceandPeaceJoanne if you would like you can review Ezra and Nehemiah and think about the emotions of the people they turned down. They became nomads. Which country will take them?
Mohammeds wife was literally a 6year old girl. Why you praising such behaviour?
Are you ashamed of youself Jesus has to bear all the sns you did???
I'm not sure I understand your question, Kk Kk. Though, if you are asking about the basic story of the gospel, then here's how the Apostle John put it, "just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
“For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.
“Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him."
That's found in the Bible, in the gospel of John, the third chapter (John 3:14-17) In the New Revised Standard Version translation from the Greek. ("Son of Man" refers to Jesus)
Hercname qas sarai and after having Isaac change to sara
You are right, God formally changed the character and presentation of Abram's and Sarai's names in a ceremony that acknowledged the profound change happening in their lives, the establishment of the patriarchal and matriarchal dynasty that would become Israel.
Wow abraham being " cruel " to human
It seems pretty cruel to us today, but I think in his day he was considered a respected member of society.
Thankfully, our western culture values individual much more highly, regardless of their position in life
Not necessarily. We should consider too Abraham is Sarah's HUSBAND (in EQUAL partnership marriage, NOT an Islamic type practice having multiple wives, etc.) whom therefore wouldn't likely show ANY care for a slave girl his WIFE is obviously jealous of as any WISE man WOULD leave ALL MATTERS regarding this kind of affair entirely in thier wife's hand UNLESS THEY'RE STUPID (i.e., when he may sleep w/ her, what wealth he may give to the girl or her son THAT BELONGS ALSO TO SARAH, whether he may even speak to the slave after intimacy, as this can be adulterous if it turned sideways on itself, etc.) if just to NOT be condemned regularly for prefering Hagar over Sarah in ANY way, potentially losing their marriage over it otherwise, if Sarah even thinks he loves the slave more than herself as well as Ishmael over their own son, etc. These being natural jealousy issues that occur in love triangles.
Thereupon said the disciples: 'O master, it is thus written in the book of Moses, that in Isaac was the promise made.'
Jesus answered, with a groan: 'It is so written, but Moses wrote it not, nor Joshua, but rather our rabbis, who fear not God. Verily I say unto you, that if ye consider the words of the angel Gabriel, ye shall discover the malice of our scribes and doctors. For the angel said: "Abraham, all the world shall know how God loveth thee; but how shall the world know the love that thou bearest to God? Assuredly it is necessary that thou do something for love of God." Abraham answered: "Behold the servant of God, ready to do all that which God shall will."
'Then spake God, saying to Abraham: "Take thy son, thy firstborn Ishmael, and come up the mountain to sacrifice him." How is Isaac firstborn, if when Isaac was born Ishmael was seven years old?'
Then said the disciples: 'Clear is the deception of our doctors: Therefore tell us thou the truth, because we know that thou art sent from God.'
Then answered Jesus: 'Verily I say unto you, that Satan ever seeketh to annul the laws of God; and therefore he with his followers, hypocrites and evil-doers, the former with false doctrine, the latter with lewd living, to-day have contaminated almost all things, so that scarcely is the truth found. Woe to the hypocrites! for the praises of this world shall turn for them into insults and torments in hell.
'I therefore say unto you that the messenger of God is a splendour that shall give gladness to nearly all that God hath made, for he is adorned with the spirit of understanding and of counsel, the spirit of wisdom and might, the spirit of fear and love, the spirit of prudence and temperance, he is adorned with the spirit of charity and mercy, the spirit of justice and piety, the spirit of gentleness and patience, which he hath received from God three times more than he hath given to all his creatures. O blessed time, when he shall come to the world! Believe me that I have seen him and have done him reverence, even as every prophet hath seen him: seeing that of his spirit God giveth to them prophecy. And when I saw him my soul was filled with consolation, saying: "O Mohammed, God be with thee, and may he make me worthy to untie thy shoelatchet, for obtaining this I shall be a great prophet and holy one of God."'
And having said this, Jesus rendered his thanks to God.
Next
www.sacred-texts.com/isl/gbar/gbar044.htm
Not biblical quote. Is this from the Quran? if so say so. The Quran was written at least fifteen hundred to two thousand years after Abraham.. and Hagar and Ishmael existed. The Old testament would be much more inaccurate of the story. Whatever was written 1500 2000 years later after they lived.
A lot of information here.........what an ugly twist associated with one of the great divine representive of God !
Why do you people put your assumptions in accounts already badly edited in the first place.......wonder if yall know the consequences for that........it 8s misleading to the ignorant and gullible !
I'm sad you didn't like the presentation. Its important to me to hear different points of you, I always can learn from others. Thank you for giving me yours. Grace and peace
How about explain what you think is misleading, instead of just spewing anger at the representation of the text.
Well both were tested by God,its all God plan..
Wild donkey is a misinterpretation.
The phrase "wild donkey" comes from the Hebrew word פֶּרֶא pereʼ, peh'-reh; or פֶּרֶה pereh in Jeremiah 2:24, and is listed in Strong's Concordance as number H6500. Strong's says פֶּרֶא has a secondary sense of "running wild" like the onager, or donkey. Some translations say "wild ass." The Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon provides all the places where this word shows up: Genesis 16:12; 16:12; Job 6:5; 11:12; 24:5; 39:5; 39:5; Psalm 104:11; Isaiah 32:14; Jeremiah 2:24; 2:24; 2:24; 14:6; 14:6; Hosea 8:9.
It is not unusual for ancient words to have a picture embedded in their meaning, as that gives depth to what the word is meant to convey. From what I've read about this word, it's sense is of swiftness and freedom, the life of a nomad, lusty and strong-willed, perhaps not wealthy in human terms, but rather at home in the wild, much like the the onagers that roamed the wilderness of the ancient near east.
How would you interpret this Hebrew word?
hagar is a mocker and a villian you are hunting Sara by doing character personality assassination to make Hagar a hero if hager dont have ability then hager gangs targeting Sara Hagar is never a slave of Sara but a competitor
Thank you for taking time to respond, Sara. All of us who are the Lord's have had our good moments and our bad moments. Sarah is certainly heroic in her own way, but what happened with Hagar was not one of Sarah's -or- Abraham's good moments.
We understand that from the way God took care of Hagar, and cared for her. It is sad to me that in the end, Hagar and her son walked off the pages of scripture. God was good to them.
She’s was enslaved by the Hebrew-Hyksos, meaning Abraham. It’s 2024, we can stop pretending Hebrews were not the foreign rulers who promised themselves other peoples land and then cursed the people of that land into eternal slave after dehumanizing them (see Palestine and American Indians).
Abraham literally means father of many nations. Father, as in, leader. Just like Noah was the “father”. Ham was a Nation, hence, Abram to Abra•ham.
Hagar, Ham, was a slave to them. Meaning they were the rulers that was forced out by Kamose and Ahmose I, Thebes King, Ham.
I’m so tired of this clear 3000 year old lie.
Ot sounds like you've made something of a study of that ancient time.
@@GraceandPeaceJoanne sorry for projecting my frustration on you. Thx
Hagar is a somali word or name.
One word... Allegory.
What a lier!