It is worth remembering the Sphere Builders themself are still part of normal time flow. They are not time _travelers_ in any sense of the word. They can observe other timelines and realities - but they can only act in the moment. They _have_ to gamble on the battle, one way or the other. They _know_ it is coming. But every work they do to change the outcome, they have to do in their timeframe of existence. They played a pretty long game grooming the Xindi to be their agents. And when they failed, they had no way to make a "do-over". Other powers with proper time travel most definitely tried to change the outcome.
This battle makes remember a line from Doctor Who's "The End of Time: Part 2": Time Lady: Perhaps it’s time. This is only the furthest edge of the Time War. But at its heart millions die every second. Lost in bloodlust and insanity. With Time itself resurrecting them to find new ways of dying, over and over again. A travesty of life. Isn’t it better to end it at last. The horror of fighting and dying again over an over in an endless temporal battle.
Indeed. Except the Time Lords and Daleks were fighting across reality, not one star system, like here. The closest example to the Time War in Star Trek, is the Coda Trilogy of books.
Always wondered why the prometheus class was still in service so far in the future, and thinking about it the temporaral agents using different starships from the past, through out time actually makes sense.
Exactly, maybe the Prometheus is the TNG era's Miranda or (more likely) Excelsior. With on screen canon having entered the early 25th century, the 26th isn't *that* far off anymore.
Prometheus is late mid 24th century, picard takes place in the 25th century and Ships build during dominion war in 24th are now the main fleet with newer ships being introduced to replenish and replace the ships of the dominion guard federation fleet so Prometheus class vessel are defined by the star trek universe as obsolete by thirty years after introducing a class. Look at episode ten of picard season three. Galaxy class enterprise D is considered ancient by everyone galaxy class is replaced by the Ross class
The writers of STO deserve so much respect- they wring gold from lead, sometimes. I just rewatched season 3 of Enterprise recently and I couldn't believe how much better and more enjoyable it was with the added context and the benefit of their retcons to Brannon Braga...
@@prismpyre7653 It's why I consider STO part of my headcanon as it's own timeline where as New Trek splits off into ST Picard. STO does such a good job fleshing out the story with time travel, such as explaining what was going on during the Babel Conferance, the origins of the Sphere Builders, and who the Envoy was, a man named Noye who lost his wife during a temporal accident and wants to bring her back. And gives us something about the Nak'hul rather then them just being aliens who time traveled and allied with the fcking Nazis.
They were still using mirada and excelsior class vessels a hundred years after first launch. It's not that strange. Look at the us air force b52 that plane is over 60 years old . But its completely different that the original, on the inside. Same thing with military fighters . They can look the same on the outside. Or galaxy class's vessels vs dominion war galaxies.
I think it's a time-trap. It has to occur in order to end the threat to the timeline, otherwise it could arise somewhen else, and necessitate all this effort again. From the perspective of someone outside the normal flow of time, this might seem like a normal series of battles in a linear war, but the changes to the anchor, "singular" timeline (prime would be a better word, but that's taken) would be exponential. Personally I'd have just done with Stephen Hawking did: throw a party for time travelers so you can eliminate them all at once, ensuring a stable timeline as every temporal journey, not matter how it interacts with the timeline, meets the same, singular end.
Watching TNG, TOS, Voy, DS9 and ENT, we are just seeing the events of the time, passive observers, we see the same timeline the whole time, events of the ENT series are legitimate history that a young Jean-Luc Picard would've read about in the e-history class.
From what I was able to determine, the battle itself IS the war, through retro causality. The victory conditions of the battle itself is who fights in it. This is determined by the history that leads up to it retroactively which is where the war is fought.
There is also the theory that Enterprise is in a timeline that continues from First Contact, and the Borg playing with time travel is what triggered the temporal cold war. Things like the NX-01's shape being due to Cochrane's observation of the Enterprise-E, meaning that things were shifted there heavily
I feel sorry for Daniels, he has to be present at every possible iteration of the Battle of Procyon V, no wonder he starts to look like scarred mess as the favor shifts against the Temporal Accord.
The whole problem with this is that it just adds another layer to the multiverse. That is, "if I don't like it, it's just another timeline" being added onto "if I don't like it, it's just another universe". Now, it becomes "if I don't like it, it's just another timeline of the universe that I like".
Procyon 5 is Andoria? I had missed that connection. Man, that really ups the stakes for that battle. Makes me wonder if the Andorians were able to shield their planet, or if the spatial distortions...depopulated it.
Well, variously, Andoria has been said to be at Procyon, or at Epsilon Indi, depending on the varying sources, @Dajona Neisnoah . And being a fairly large system, I guess it would be possible, that Andoria and it's gas giant, was unaffected...? Battle also suggested to be in either 2554 or 2557, in ST: Online, I believe.
I’m amazed temporal problems aren’t more common, considering you can time travel by doing basically anything that seems weird enough to work in the ST world
I think TOS, TNG, DS9, Voy and Enterprise are still well within their same continuity. In Yesterdays Enterprise (I know, alternative reality, but still closely related to the prime reality), Riker remarks about a planet called Archer (IV or V, doesn't matter). At the time it was made this was a throwaway line, but given Captain Archer, who later became president, this system is likely named after him, no matter the reality. Or in TOS/TMP, Khan and his gengineered band are settled on Ceti Alpha V. Which coincidentially happens to be the same planet the Human refugees settle in the Enterprise episode Twilight
It is the event that started AND ended the sphere builders meddling in time. ;) It's both cause and effect because timey-wimey. Or as Janeway says "My advice on making sense of temporal paradoxes is simple: don't even try"
On the inconsistencies on how time travel affects the various "presents" of star trek.. There are multiple methods of time travel available, so it might matter HOW one achieves the time travel, And if the means are artificial, how the device is set up along with the intent of those seeking to use it.
I'd like to see a team made up of Yesterday's Enterprise Tasha Yar, Year of Hell Harry Kim, First Contact's Lily, The Voyage Home's Punk Guy on the Bus, all of them gathered together from across time and Alternate dimensions to beat the living crap out of anyone who even so much as glances in the direction of time travel. Like, they just pop out of nowhere and beat the person with sticks for, to anyone watching, no apparent reason.
Time travel is always tricky, and then depending on the franchise, it has different effects. Like are you altering your own timeline, or are you creating a whole other multiverse?
Double phase cannons front, or just phase cannons if you aren't in a combat ship, phase turrets rear with a single photon launcher for hull. I put my phase launcher in the rear when turning around for a second strafe, while the turrets (360 degree arc) kept shields down. Unless I was ambushed by multiple people or faced someone geared way better, I could one on one anyone that was near my level. And unless they had suped up shields or hull, I could get most down in a single volley. Yes, you can steal my setup. Make me proud, you glass cannon.
The battle that spawned multiple timelines sounds exciting or even terrifying. New realities created and lived even for a moment or more. Maybe countless more that remain in existence. I would say the problem with the sphere builders is that while they can travel to time back and such, their also aware of future events ie: The burn. Now that concept wasn’t made at the time but when you have a antagonist that is near all seeing in timelines then it’s but if a headache to reason why they didn’t take advantage of the burn instead.
My head-canon is First Contact created a new timeline that is linked between Enterprise and Discovery, the Temporal Cold War timeline. This Explains why Enterprise is the out of left field NX Class and not a Daedalus like depicted in Picard's diorama and elsewhere. Just like the Nerada inspired the Kelvin ships to be far too big for their time, the Borg on Earth in 2069 and various sloppy temporal incursions to stop the rise of Starfleet led to whatever drugs helped create the Crossfield Class and a double sized Disco-Connie
The way i look at star trek time travel is that most changes in history are like splashes from stones thrown in the water, the water droplets fall back into the river and the changes in time aren't massive. throw a rock in and you can redirect the direction a river flows.
I just selfishly assume all content I like is Prime, everything else is not. It's the same as The Elder Scrolls lore where everything is and isn't canon so I just assume the stuff I believe and like is the true canon.
i mean, there is a Crossovers with Dr. Who and TNG sooo maaaby the Battle is also Fixed Point in Time or more a Wobbly Point in Time where the Events always lead to the Battle, like to quote Bioshock: "there is always a Man and there is always a Lighthouse"
I just see Discovery's future as an alternate timeline occuring from ST Picard. THat the timeline splits at the end of Nemesis depending on if B4 takes to Data's memories (STO) or doesn't and "dies" (Picard and Discovery Season 3 and 4). That some events are fixed points, such as the Synth attack on Mars by the ZHat'vash, though in STO Data beng there manages to uncover the truth of it, and either lessens the damage, or at least his actions prevent the ban on synths, STO leads into Daniel's future, but the Burn Timeline gets involved in the Temporal Cold War, eventually they at least ban time travel except for Temporal Agents.
Problem: The Hindi and the Sultan have never been mentioned / used in any Trek since ENT so far as I can recall. The idea of the various Xindi species derived from one species with genetic engineering of it or its uplifted other planetary species, was a really good idea, interesting, but not explored nearly enough. (But then, I also still want more about the Caitians and Edosians from TAS and the Erosions from the movies and the Tellarites, Andorians, and Orions from TOS, and the Ferengi.)
Thank you for another interesting video. Is STO easy to get into? I've thought about it a time or two, but I'm curious what kind of time commitment is involved. Thanks in advance for any answers. God be with you out there everybody! ✝️ :)
STO is currently running a promotion where if you create a 23rd century Kirk era Captain, you get additional bonuses as you level up your Captain. Mostly marks for the endgame reputation grind, but also extra passives that you can reclaim on any future Captain you create.
I am curious about legendary registries. Why do some ships get legendary registries while others do not? Another question, why does STO focus so much on Star Trek TOS for the 23rd century and seemingly ignoring Star Trek II Constitution refit era of the 23rd century?
Late answer: about the registries i really dont know, but what i know is that in STO, agents of yesterday takes place in 2270 (the last year of the 5 year mission) minewhile the refit is in 2271. that is why if you se the enterprise, is the old one.
I think that the Sphere Builders timeline no longer exists, as Enterprise cut off the Sphere Builders in their tracks....thanks to Daniels time travelling
I simply ignore the Kelvin timeline and assume all content I like belongs to the Prime timeline (TNG, TOS, ENT, VOY, PIC S3, LD) and anything I don't is in the Kelvin one.
Oddly there are specific Timelines in the Star Trek Canon. The first timeline is the original. Ironic the original was effected by second known Timeline. The Second Timeline is the Kevin Timeline. The only character who had seen the two Timelines was Spock. Spock was born in the original Timeline. He died in the Kevin Timeline. How the Original Timeline was effected by the Kevin Timeline is mostly composed of honest theories and speculation. Odd the Kevin Timeline takes place in a parallel universe. After Nero enter the Universe where the Kevin Timeline exists, he was angry. Nero had wanted only was revenge. Oddly his crew had seem to agreed with Nero. Oddly if there is such as a thing like the Force in the Original Universe and the Kevin Time Universe, the force will trying to seek a balance in both Universe. So what we have seen in Discovery, Strange New Worlds, Picard is a result of the Force rebalancing itself. In the original Universe, Kirk's father is able to play a very important part in his son's life. In the Kevin Timeline Kirk's father was not able to see his son grow u. Yet one of the friends of Kirk's father had help his son James T. Kirk as he grow up as best as he can. Oddly to the Kevin Line James T. Kirk Pike was a father figure whom he was willing to obey. Pike had convince James to take the Starfleet Academy Exam. When James had learn, about passing he was afraid until Pike had him to join the Academy. Despite of a few honest differences, both Kirks continue to be Lady's Men. Oddly both do respect women despite being misunderstood by a lot of women Both Kirks were gentlemen as well as a future version of Lady's men. In the Future, woman are very careful when it comes to finding relationships While both Kirks have been seen as stupid perverts by a lot of women, it is their actions as well as treat a lot of women like the mothers and sisters which convince women that each Kirk is a gentleman who understand why it is better to be a friend than being a pervert.
@@TheZamaron Mobs spawn too quickly from the portals with aoe abilities, Which disrupt closing the portals and the map requires a bit of teamwork to complete the objectives, simple pew pew isn't enough for this TFO. It's a frustrating one to run
@@matthewdoyle3628 It is. For best results, three time ships are needed, preferably the 31st Century ships. They battle the waves, while everyone else closes the portals. This is because they are the only vessels that compete with what is being thrown, especially when Annorax shows up.
4:19 Yes. That would mean it is NOT. A. RETCON! God I am so sick and tired of people using the term WRONG! Just because we never heard of it DOESN’T MEAN IT DIDN’T HAPPEN!
My GODS I hate the Enterprise J. I hate its stupid stretched out saucer, I hate the stupid spindly pylons that look like they're going to snap off any second, I hate its stupid miniscule nacelles. It looks like something a five year old drew for Captain Picard Day and someone at Utopia Planetia looked at and though "Brilliant! Its so BOLD!"
Star Trek has been garbage ever since they hired JJ Abrams and allowed him to screw it up with the introduction of the Kelvin timeline and instead of correcting their mistake by limiting its use to those 2 Star Trek movie reboots, they blend the original timeline with the Kelvin timeline and it makes absolutely no sense! We have an education crisis in this country and it shows in the poor writing by these Millennial/Gen. Z writers who couldn’t write a 3rd Grade play if asked to. Discovery, Picard, Strange New Worlds, and Star Trek: The Online Series (video game) are all terribly written and they’re written by people who didn’t even watch the series before they started writing about them. You can tell these people didn’t watch TOS, the Animated Series, TNG, DS9, Voyager, or even Enterprise before they started cherry picking themes, characters, and settings from those shows and cobbling together their Frankenstein monstrosities. If they had watched DS9 and VOY, they’d know they that Tal Shiar had been infiltrated at the highest levels by Section 31 and Star Fleet and there’s no way the Romulans, who don’t even have a planet, could have planned the attack on Utopia Planetia without the Federation getting wind of it and thwarting it. There’s no way with all their experience from fighting the Dominion and from Voyager’s travels through Delta quadrant and experience from fighting the Borg, Species 8472, the Krenim, the Voth, and a whole host of aliens that the Federation shouldn’t have been the most powerful empire in the Alpha Quadrant if not the galaxy! Now, you’re telling me that their primary shipyard was destroyed (according to Picard) and the Klingons were allowed to rebuild their military to be able to fight another war against the Federation in the 25th century according to the Online Series? Discovery was supposed to cover the 10 years before Kirk took over the Enterprise, but outside of the first season, we have very little about that time period on the show. They’ve spent most of their time in the mirror universe and in the 32nd century. So, you’re just going to ignore the aftermath of the war with the Klingons and spend the rest of the series 900 years in the future? They’ve ruined Section 31! It was supposed to be a covert organization that was only uncovered briefly by the crew of DS9 in the 24th century and Captain Archer in the 22nd century. But, on Discovery they’re out in the open. Lastly, this episode of Certifiably Ingame exposes how ridiculously bad Star Trek has become. The Battle of Procyon 5 was not in Andorian Space. It wasn’t even in our universe. It was in the Sphere Builders’ universe. And there was no way that either the Borg Collective or the Borg Cooperative would sign the Temporal Accords treaty or any treaty for that matter. The Collective doesn’t deal; they assimilate. (The only exception being the deal Janeway struck to get safe passage through Borg space.) The Cooperative was a small group of Ex-Borg who live on a single planet in the Delta Quadrant. The Tholians belonged to another faction that hadn’t signed the Temporal Accords, either. So, this make no sense! I wish these writers would use the previous series and movies as their templates for writing new and better series instead of new and lame ones. That’s why Picard is off the air after only 3 years. Fans deserve better and should demand better!
No this is proof that Strange new worlds and Disco is NOT in the Prime Timeline. You can't change that much in the timeline like the Neugenic Wars by 65 years and have everything the exact same in the future timeline. This only means that Strange new worlds and disco are in a alternate timeline. I caught on that right off the bat. Ok look at it in this perspective. Project Khan was in 1959, Khan would of been 32 years old in 1992 at the begining of the Neugenic Wars. So there is 32 years from when Khan was born to the war happen. Ok now Strange new worlds realality. The year is 2022 right. The little boy that played Khan was about 6 or 7 years old. Lets just say 7. Ok now we have some info to go off of now. So The begining of Project Khan was 7 years before 2022 so 2014 That put the Neugenics wars in the year 2046 if Khan was 32 years old like in the original timeline. See the we are already in a major history time problem. World War 3 should of already happened by then. See the timeline will be in a major time event shift. So this only proves that Strange new worlds and Disco are not in the Prime Timeline.
Time travel is what killed any possible enjoyment of Star Trek :Enterprise. It was advertised as first steps into the unknown, but episode one sees "Captain Buzzkill from the 29th Century" turn up and ruin all that.
It is worth remembering the Sphere Builders themself are still part of normal time flow. They are not time _travelers_ in any sense of the word.
They can observe other timelines and realities - but they can only act in the moment.
They _have_ to gamble on the battle, one way or the other.
They _know_ it is coming.
But every work they do to change the outcome, they have to do in their timeframe of existence. They played a pretty long game grooming the Xindi to be their agents. And when they failed, they had no way to make a "do-over".
Other powers with proper time travel most definitely tried to change the outcome.
Yes, which in turn, added ways the Sphere Builders could potentially win when those powers made contact.
This battle makes remember a line from Doctor Who's "The End of Time: Part 2":
Time Lady: Perhaps it’s time. This is only the furthest edge of the Time War. But at its heart millions die every second. Lost in bloodlust and insanity. With Time itself resurrecting them to find new ways of dying, over and over again. A travesty of life. Isn’t it better to end it at last.
The horror of fighting and dying again over an over in an endless temporal battle.
Indeed. Except the Time Lords and Daleks were fighting across reality, not one star system, like here. The closest example to the Time War in Star Trek, is the Coda Trilogy of books.
Always wondered why the prometheus class was still in service so far in the future, and thinking about it the temporaral agents using different starships from the past, through out time actually makes sense.
Though the Miranda class did hang on for more than a century itself.
Exactly, maybe the Prometheus is the TNG era's Miranda or (more likely) Excelsior. With on screen canon having entered the early 25th century, the 26th isn't *that* far off anymore.
Prometheus is late mid 24th century, picard takes place in the 25th century and Ships build during dominion war in 24th are now the main fleet with newer ships being introduced to replenish and replace the ships of the dominion guard federation fleet so Prometheus class vessel are defined by the star trek universe as obsolete by thirty years after introducing a class. Look at episode ten of picard season three. Galaxy class enterprise D is considered ancient by everyone galaxy class is replaced by the Ross class
@@jaredcolon4535 The Ross class is nothing more than a modernized and mostly automated Galaxy class.
The writers of STO deserve so much respect- they wring gold from lead, sometimes. I just rewatched season 3 of Enterprise recently and I couldn't believe how much better and more enjoyable it was with the added context and the benefit of their retcons to Brannon Braga...
and not only that, but so well written that it made me totally sympathetic to the Tuterians and some of the allied forces at the same time
@@prismpyre7653 It's why I consider STO part of my headcanon as it's own timeline where as New Trek splits off into ST Picard. STO does such a good job fleshing out the story with time travel, such as explaining what was going on during the Babel Conferance, the origins of the Sphere Builders, and who the Envoy was, a man named Noye who lost his wife during a temporal accident and wants to bring her back. And gives us something about the Nak'hul rather then them just being aliens who time traveled and allied with the fcking Nazis.
They were still using mirada and excelsior class vessels a hundred years after first launch. It's not that strange.
Look at the us air force b52 that plane is over 60 years old . But its completely different that the original, on the inside.
Same thing with military fighters . They can look the same on the outside. Or galaxy class's vessels vs dominion war galaxies.
It seems to me like the Battle of Procyon V is simultaneously a battle that never occurred, and a battle that never ends.
I think it's a time-trap. It has to occur in order to end the threat to the timeline, otherwise it could arise somewhen else, and necessitate all this effort again. From the perspective of someone outside the normal flow of time, this might seem like a normal series of battles in a linear war, but the changes to the anchor, "singular" timeline (prime would be a better word, but that's taken) would be exponential.
Personally I'd have just done with Stephen Hawking did: throw a party for time travelers so you can eliminate them all at once, ensuring a stable timeline as every temporal journey, not matter how it interacts with the timeline, meets the same, singular end.
Agree with Janeway, temporal mechanics gives me a headache
I am with Seven of Nine. It makes awesome jokes for those that are easily confused by temporal mechanics.
“I hate temporal mechanics” x2
Watching TNG, TOS, Voy, DS9 and ENT, we are just seeing the events of the time, passive observers, we see the same timeline the whole time, events of the ENT series are legitimate history that a young Jean-Luc Picard would've read about in the e-history class.
From what I was able to determine, the battle itself IS the war, through retro causality. The victory conditions of the battle itself is who fights in it. This is determined by the history that leads up to it retroactively which is where the war is fought.
I wish Agent Daniels had gotten his own spin-off.
Quantum Leap?
@@nightrunnerxm393 Agent Daniels: Time Cop
@@nightrunnerxm393 Archer: Oh boy!
If nothing else we would get to see the Enterprise-H and Enterprise-I.
There is also the theory that Enterprise is in a timeline that continues from First Contact, and the Borg playing with time travel is what triggered the temporal cold war.
Things like the NX-01's shape being due to Cochrane's observation of the Enterprise-E, meaning that things were shifted there heavily
in the Books the borg tried to destroy the enterprise before exiting the vortex. The use of temporal weapons by the Borg caused the booktimeline.
I like that theory
@@ptonpc It also seems to fit the new thing with temporal sliding of events such as Khan and the Eugenics Wars
I feel sorry for Daniels, he has to be present at every possible iteration of the Battle of Procyon V, no wonder he starts to look like scarred mess as the favor shifts against the Temporal Accord.
The whole problem with this is that it just adds another layer to the multiverse.
That is, "if I don't like it, it's just another timeline" being added onto "if I don't like it, it's just another universe". Now, it becomes "if I don't like it, it's just another timeline of the universe that I like".
Procyon 5 is Andoria? I had missed that connection. Man, that really ups the stakes for that battle. Makes me wonder if the Andorians were able to shield their planet, or if the spatial distortions...depopulated it.
Well, variously, Andoria has been said to be at Procyon, or at Epsilon Indi, depending on the varying sources, @Dajona Neisnoah .
And being a fairly large system, I guess it would be possible, that Andoria and it's gas giant, was unaffected...?
Battle also suggested to be in either 2554 or 2557, in ST: Online, I believe.
I’m amazed temporal problems aren’t more common, considering you can time travel by doing basically anything that seems weird enough to work in the ST world
Damn wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff!!!
"If the Federation had lost, the Sphere-Builders would have spread throughout the galaxy. They would wiped out everything." -- Daniels, 26th century
I think TOS, TNG, DS9, Voy and Enterprise are still well within their same continuity.
In Yesterdays Enterprise (I know, alternative reality, but still closely related to the prime reality), Riker remarks about a planet called Archer (IV or V, doesn't matter). At the time it was made this was a throwaway line, but given Captain Archer, who later became president, this system is likely named after him, no matter the reality.
Or in TOS/TMP, Khan and his gengineered band are settled on Ceti Alpha V. Which coincidentially happens to be the same planet the Human refugees settle in the Enterprise episode Twilight
Just did that mission tonight going in destroying the sphere. Definitely loving the content of this game.
5:15 The loss of the battle is why the sphere builders are interveining in the timeline IMO
It is the event that started AND ended the sphere builders meddling in time. ;) It's both cause and effect because timey-wimey. Or as Janeway says "My advice on making sense of temporal paradoxes is simple: don't even try"
On the inconsistencies on how time travel affects the various "presents" of star trek.. There are multiple methods of time travel available, so it might matter HOW one achieves the time travel, And if the means are artificial, how the device is set up along with the intent of those seeking to use it.
I'd like to see a team made up of Yesterday's Enterprise Tasha Yar, Year of Hell Harry Kim, First Contact's Lily, The Voyage Home's Punk Guy on the Bus, all of them gathered together from across time and Alternate dimensions to beat the living crap out of anyone who even so much as glances in the direction of time travel. Like, they just pop out of nowhere and beat the person with sticks for, to anyone watching, no apparent reason.
I like that! 👍🏻
Sounds like a perfect scene for Lower Decks (I believe they had Rick & Morty writers onboard?) xD
Time travel is always tricky, and then depending on the franchise, it has different effects. Like are you altering your own timeline, or are you creating a whole other multiverse?
Double phase cannons front, or just phase cannons if you aren't in a combat ship, phase turrets rear with a single photon launcher for hull. I put my phase launcher in the rear when turning around for a second strafe, while the turrets (360 degree arc) kept shields down. Unless I was ambushed by multiple people or faced someone geared way better, I could one on one anyone that was near my level. And unless they had suped up shields or hull, I could get most down in a single volley.
Yes, you can steal my setup. Make me proud, you glass cannon.
I always liked doing this mission in sto since it has the unique poison swamp health drain, while you take on waves of pretty tough and varied ships
The Enterprise-J gets a bad wrap, I quite like it from most angles
The battle that spawned multiple timelines sounds exciting or even terrifying. New realities created and lived even for a moment or more. Maybe countless more that remain in existence.
I would say the problem with the sphere builders is that while they can travel to time back and such, their also aware of future events ie: The burn.
Now that concept wasn’t made at the time but when you have a antagonist that is near all seeing in timelines then it’s but if a headache to reason why they didn’t take advantage of the burn instead.
In the Kelvin timeline they had it worse. Not only the Xindi in Archer's time but also in the 2250's.
My head-canon is First Contact created a new timeline that is linked between Enterprise and Discovery, the Temporal Cold War timeline.
This Explains why Enterprise is the out of left field NX Class and not a Daedalus like depicted in Picard's diorama and elsewhere.
Just like the Nerada inspired the Kelvin ships to be far too big for their time, the Borg on Earth in 2069 and various sloppy temporal incursions to stop the rise of Starfleet led to whatever drugs helped create the Crossfield Class and a double sized Disco-Connie
your outro gave me a good giggle, well done rick.
All I remember from that battle is,that it was a huge mess and had several retakes due to time manipulation.
The way i look at star trek time travel is that most changes in history are like splashes from stones thrown in the water, the water droplets fall back into the river and the changes in time aren't massive. throw a rock in and you can redirect the direction a river flows.
I'd love to see more Star Trek shorts that covers stuff like this.
I like the idea that any show, from Enterprise after, is its own timeline. It explains tech differences etc and means I can ignore STD completely.
I just selfishly assume all content I like is Prime, everything else is not. It's the same as The Elder Scrolls lore where everything is and isn't canon so I just assume the stuff I believe and like is the true canon.
i mean, there is a Crossovers with Dr. Who and TNG sooo maaaby the Battle is also Fixed Point in Time or more a Wobbly Point in Time where the Events always lead to the Battle, like to quote Bioshock: "there is always a Man and there is always a Lighthouse"
you should do a video on agent Daniels , such a caractere drapped in mystery
I just see Discovery's future as an alternate timeline occuring from ST Picard. THat the timeline splits at the end of Nemesis depending on if B4 takes to Data's memories (STO) or doesn't and "dies" (Picard and Discovery Season 3 and 4). That some events are fixed points, such as the Synth attack on Mars by the ZHat'vash, though in STO Data beng there manages to uncover the truth of it, and either lessens the damage, or at least his actions prevent the ban on synths, STO leads into Daniel's future, but the Burn Timeline gets involved in the Temporal Cold War, eventually they at least ban time travel except for Temporal Agents.
I always found the 26th century more worthy of exploration than the 32nd century we see in Discovery.
They used the time travel to destroy the time travel!
Problem: The Hindi and the Sultan have never been mentioned / used in any Trek since ENT so far as I can recall. The idea of the various Xindi species derived from one species with genetic engineering of it or its uplifted other planetary species, was a really good idea, interesting, but not explored nearly enough. (But then, I also still want more about the Caitians and Edosians from TAS and the Erosions from the movies and the Tellarites, Andorians, and Orions from TOS, and the Ferengi.)
They are in the background in star trek prodigy
Isn't it more that the events of First Contact TNG altered the timeline - kind of creating Enterprise?
It kinda sounds like the battle is a sort of perpetual conflict or a forever war - always fighting in some form of space & time.
Thyme travel is always tricky, going to so many grocery stores to find good herbs...
LOL 🙂
You would have thought Archer would have been detected while on the Enterprise J.
🖖
So the Sphere Builders will always remain a looming threat overall..
Thank you for another interesting video. Is STO easy to get into? I've thought about it a time or two, but I'm curious what kind of time commitment is involved. Thanks in advance for any answers.
God be with you out there everybody! ✝️ :)
STO is currently running a promotion where if you create a 23rd century Kirk era Captain, you get additional bonuses as you level up your Captain. Mostly marks for the endgame reputation grind, but also extra passives that you can reclaim on any future Captain you create.
@@JoacinoDaGona Well that sounds nifty. Thank you for the tip!
James Kirk was the biggest offender of Time Travel Rules and Regulations.
I forget, what's the location of that one mission where you fight around the tethered 'ringwold' station? Not a TFO.
The one where you are offered the chance to observe the signing of the Termporal Accords?
How come there is never any mention of the Dyson Sphere that TNG found?
I am curious about legendary registries. Why do some ships get legendary registries while others do not? Another question, why does STO focus so much on Star Trek TOS for the 23rd century and seemingly ignoring Star Trek II Constitution refit era of the 23rd century?
Late answer: about the registries i really dont know, but what i know is that in STO, agents of yesterday takes place in 2270 (the last year of the 5 year mission) minewhile the refit is in 2271. that is why if you se the enterprise, is the old one.
Daniels said the new expanse is 50 light years across.
I think that the Sphere Builders timeline no longer exists, as Enterprise cut off the Sphere Builders in their tracks....thanks to Daniels time travelling
I simply ignore the Kelvin timeline and assume all content I like belongs to the Prime timeline (TNG, TOS, ENT, VOY, PIC S3, LD) and anything I don't is in the Kelvin one.
Oddly there are specific Timelines in the Star Trek Canon. The first timeline is the original. Ironic the original was effected by second known Timeline. The Second Timeline is the Kevin Timeline. The only character who had seen the two Timelines was Spock. Spock was born in the original Timeline. He died in the Kevin Timeline. How the Original Timeline was effected by the Kevin Timeline is mostly composed of honest theories and speculation. Odd the Kevin Timeline takes place in a parallel universe. After Nero enter the Universe where the Kevin Timeline exists, he was angry. Nero had wanted only was revenge. Oddly his crew had seem to agreed with Nero.
Oddly if there is such as a thing like the Force in the Original Universe and the Kevin Time Universe, the force will trying to seek a balance in both Universe. So what we have seen in Discovery, Strange New Worlds, Picard is a result of the Force rebalancing itself. In the original Universe, Kirk's father is able to play a very important part in his son's life. In the Kevin Timeline Kirk's father was not able to see his son grow u. Yet one of the friends of Kirk's father had help his son James T. Kirk as he grow up as best as he can. Oddly to the Kevin Line James T. Kirk Pike was a father figure whom he was willing to obey. Pike had convince James to take the Starfleet Academy Exam. When James had learn, about passing he was afraid until Pike had him to join the Academy.
Despite of a few honest differences, both Kirks continue to be Lady's Men. Oddly both do respect women despite being misunderstood by a lot of women Both Kirks were gentlemen as well as a future version of Lady's men. In the Future, woman are very careful when it comes to finding relationships While both Kirks have been seen as stupid perverts by a lot of women, it is their actions as well as treat a lot of women like the mothers and sisters which convince women that each Kirk is a gentleman who understand why it is better to be a friend than being a pervert.
Can we just forget the burn event?
Well my headache got worse...
That TFO in Star Trek Online is worth every second of a leavers penalty as it is a horrible TFO.
WHat's wrong with it?
@@TheZamaron Mobs spawn too quickly from the portals with aoe abilities, Which disrupt closing the portals and the map requires a bit of teamwork to complete the objectives, simple pew pew isn't enough for this TFO. It's a frustrating one to run
@@matthewdoyle3628 It is. For best results, three time ships are needed, preferably the 31st Century ships.
They battle the waves, while everyone else closes the portals.
This is because they are the only vessels that compete with what is being thrown, especially when Annorax shows up.
Multiverses and alternate realties are canon.
4:19
Yes. That would mean it is NOT. A. RETCON!
God I am so sick and tired of people using the term WRONG! Just because we never heard of it DOESN’T MEAN IT DIDN’T HAPPEN!
Why is the -J such a silly, ridiculous and ugly ship?!
My GODS I hate the Enterprise J. I hate its stupid stretched out saucer, I hate the stupid spindly pylons that look like they're going to snap off any second, I hate its stupid miniscule nacelles. It looks like something a five year old drew for Captain Picard Day and someone at Utopia Planetia looked at and though "Brilliant! Its so BOLD!"
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Why did you have to take about the burn - it was so stupid!
I have no idea what the show runners were thinking when they designed the J. Its stupid looking. Really stupid looking.
Lets not use any STD related events as part of star trek lore thx :)
Star Trek has been garbage ever since they hired JJ Abrams and allowed him to screw it up with the introduction of the Kelvin timeline and instead of correcting their mistake by limiting its use to those 2 Star Trek movie reboots, they blend the original timeline with the Kelvin timeline and it makes absolutely no sense!
We have an education crisis in this country and it shows in the poor writing by these Millennial/Gen. Z writers who couldn’t write a 3rd Grade play if asked to. Discovery, Picard, Strange New Worlds, and Star Trek: The Online Series (video game) are all terribly written and they’re written by people who didn’t even watch the series before they started writing about them. You can tell these people didn’t watch TOS, the Animated Series, TNG, DS9, Voyager, or even Enterprise before they started cherry picking themes, characters, and settings from those shows and cobbling together their Frankenstein monstrosities.
If they had watched DS9 and VOY, they’d know they that Tal Shiar had been infiltrated at the highest levels by Section 31 and Star Fleet and there’s no way the Romulans, who don’t even have a planet, could have planned the attack on Utopia Planetia without the Federation getting wind of it and thwarting it.
There’s no way with all their experience from fighting the Dominion and from Voyager’s travels through Delta quadrant and experience from fighting the Borg, Species 8472, the Krenim, the Voth, and a whole host of aliens that the Federation shouldn’t have been the most powerful empire in the Alpha Quadrant if not the galaxy! Now, you’re telling me that their primary shipyard was destroyed (according to Picard) and the Klingons were allowed to rebuild their military to be able to fight another war against the Federation in the 25th century according to the Online Series?
Discovery was supposed to cover the 10 years before Kirk took over the Enterprise, but outside of the first season, we have very little about that time period on the show. They’ve spent most of their time in the mirror universe and in the 32nd century. So, you’re just going to ignore the aftermath of the war with the Klingons and spend the rest of the series 900 years in the future?
They’ve ruined Section 31! It was supposed to be a covert organization that was only uncovered briefly by the crew of DS9 in the 24th century and Captain Archer in the 22nd century. But, on Discovery they’re out in the open.
Lastly, this episode of Certifiably Ingame exposes how ridiculously bad Star Trek has become. The Battle of Procyon 5 was not in Andorian Space. It wasn’t even in our universe. It was in the Sphere Builders’ universe. And there was no way that either the Borg Collective or the Borg Cooperative would sign the Temporal Accords treaty or any treaty for that matter. The Collective doesn’t deal; they assimilate. (The only exception being the deal Janeway struck to get safe passage through Borg space.) The Cooperative was a small group of Ex-Borg who live on a single planet in the Delta Quadrant. The Tholians belonged to another faction that hadn’t signed the Temporal Accords, either. So, this make no sense!
I wish these writers would use the previous series and movies as their templates for writing new and better series instead of new and lame ones. That’s why Picard is off the air after only 3 years. Fans deserve better and should demand better!
Good script writing 🤣
No this is proof that Strange new worlds and Disco is NOT in the Prime Timeline. You can't change that much in the timeline like the Neugenic Wars by 65 years and have everything the exact same in the future timeline. This only means that Strange new worlds and disco are in a alternate timeline. I caught on that right off the bat. Ok look at it in this perspective. Project Khan was in 1959, Khan would of been 32 years old in 1992 at the begining of the Neugenic Wars. So there is 32 years from when Khan was born to the war happen. Ok now Strange new worlds realality. The year is 2022 right. The little boy that played Khan was about 6 or 7 years old. Lets just say 7. Ok now we have some info to go off of now. So The begining of Project Khan was 7 years before 2022 so 2014 That put the Neugenics wars in the year 2046 if Khan was 32 years old like in the original timeline. See the we are already in a major history time problem. World War 3 should of already happened by then. See the timeline will be in a major time event shift. So this only proves that Strange new worlds and Disco are not in the Prime Timeline.
Time travel is what killed any possible enjoyment of Star Trek :Enterprise. It was advertised as first steps into the unknown, but episode one sees "Captain Buzzkill from the 29th Century" turn up and ruin all that.