Making a Back Plate for my Metal lathe Chuck
Вставка
- Опубліковано 25 чер 2020
- This video covers how to (and how NOT to) make a screw mount back plate for a metal lathe chuck. This back plate is for my South Bend 11 but the same process can be used for any screw mount back plate.
As I was watching the chuck come off the spindle I was thinking "Boy, I shure wouldn't want to drop that, there's no wood under to catch it from falling onto the ways"..... and then as the chuck came off, it cuts to a commercial... my heart dropped because I thought the chuck did too haha. I see you live dangerously, Sir.
Perhaps you are right but I did had rags on the bed. What bothers me is that UA-cam put ads in the middle on my videos! I disabled this but they keep undoing it.
As I was watching your video ;-) I was very surprised why you didn't cut it down on a bandsaw before putting it on the lathe it would save so much time made it a lot easier but in the end you did a very good job. Thanks a lot for sharing your video. I've learned a lot from you.
I totally agree. I didn't have a band saw at the time. Also read what I wrote in the description. I know... I seldom read them myself but I acknowledge that this was not an ideal method. Oh... thanks for watching.
Hi Winky, I have a Backplate that I need to Machine for a New Chuck. This Video really helped on doing the Hole Spacing and everything else. Thanks for making the Video.
Your welcome... be sure and cut the corners off with a band saw if you can.
Every one of your videos holds lessons and tricks that i never knew, Thank you for the education.
That's great! Thanks!
so true. thanks fro the education
Pretty cool portable drill set up using a boring bar holder! I never thought of that. BTW, nice shop.
Thanks! 👍 I've used that thing a bunch!
I like your work!!!
Best regards from Germany.
Thank you very much!
@@WinkysWorkshop I was Stationed in Wiesbaden Germany but got to see most of Europe and Egypt and Spain and Beruit on TDYS. I loved Germany ( was West Germany then). It’s a Beautiful Country and the People are Great.
Very nice job.
Good content.
Thank you,EM.
Thanks for watching!
An enjoyable video... thank you.
I've generally made octagons out of squares but still makes for pucker factor on the interrupted cuts until it gets round-ish! Nicely done on that chuck back, to get about a though on a 3-jaw is awesome!
Yep.... I don't have a band saw (yet) but undoubtedly it would work much better! Yep. I love the .001"!
Excellent. Don't have a threaded spindle, but love watching your work. Glad you show all the challenges everyone of us faces. Bottom line, done and done! 😊😎 --Mark
Thanks Mark!
I don't have a threaded spindle either, nor all the rest behind that - i.e. the lathe :) , but still watch this kind of stuff being done in absolute awe. I guess one day I'll come across an old lathe somewhere and an affair will start.
@@BenMitro Uncle died, was given his lathe. It was used as wood lathe. Returned it back to metal working. Lots of problems. YOU NEED to know about headstock bearings and shaft condition. The degree of wear on bed, and crossslide etc, etc. A money pit and frustration if in bad condition. Still, I find it worthwhile.
@@BenMitro - I'm on my third lathe. The first two were Logan and this last one is a South Bend. A 1941, 1947 and the SB is 1931. I restored them all. It's a lot of work but also addictive. Using a lathe you restore yourself is always huge pleasure. Lot of fun, you should find you one!
@@lawrencewillard6370 thanks Lawrence.
Winky, I'm glad I watched this video again. I have my LeBlond back together and I started making a baking plate for my 3 jaw chuck. I have started turning the corners also but you talked me out of it. I will take it off and cut them with my band saw.... Thanks... (I did take a few videos of the rebuild. I need to post them I suppose.)
Yes, I'd love to see the videos!
I think that turned out really well I had a Chuck I bought brand new it had 5thou run out on the chuck but the jaws ran true half a thou I later figured out that the chuck body had a slight out of roundness been using that chuck for the last 4 yrs no problem it’s crazy how that happens great video as usual thanks for sharing all the best
Thanks kind of what this chuck did. Thanks for the comment!
Mr Winky very good video, I need to get me a new 3 jaw inside grip chuck, been trying to find one with a backplate having no luck. So i am going to try the way u did it. Sure am going to have to make some tools to do that, I watched ur index gear that was very good.
Liked the way u checked 4 the run out and located the holes to mount the plate.
Thanks
Thanks. If you can, knock the corners off the square stock it's way easier faster and even safer.
Nice work
Thanks!
Great job and info thanks for showing the wrong way and pointing it out
Your welcome
I’ve used plate like that before, your correct if you knock the corners off with the band saw it does work better. Great work
I don't have a metal cutting band saw except a portable. I hooked a table to the portable and cut some disks for another project and it worked great. After cutting a 3/8" plate to 6 inches circle I bolted it to some 2" round with a 3/8" bolt and chucked it in my lathe. To my surprise the disk never slipped on the bolt. It worked perfect. Live and learn.
Very neat drill set-up that you have going there. I'm hoping to have a small home machine of my own going before long. FYI "Thread Engagement" is more about how much drag or friction there is between the two parts than size. Put another way, at 100% thread engagement, you would have so much friction between the two parts, it would be pretty close to a press fit, (actually, an "Interference Fit") and the parts would likely friction weld together. No bueno. And yes, you should definitely cut the corners off as close to round as you can first, interrupting cuts are hard on tooling, machines AND nerves. (btw, you are killing it ! You are doing a heck of a job, and I can't wait for more video!)
Since I made this video I turned a 1/2" x 6" disk. I rounded it on the band saw... this is WAY easier. Drill set up? You mean the square column drill press? Yes, this is by far the best thing I have ever done! WHY on earth some major manufacturer doesn't sell a dove tailed column drill press with a light mill table is beyond my comprehension.
It is a good practice to start with some drawing, helps to avoid surprises :)
Very true! With something more complex I usually do. Also this was not a good way to make the back plate. I did not have a bandsaw to cut it to a roughly round shape.
Good job!
Thanks!
TREPANNING is basically deep hole boring with a difference in that it leaves a core. It is an efficient method for drilling deep large deep holes that is
more cost-effective than deep hole boring.
The most common use for trepanning is cutting
a core out of a larger solid leaving two pieces.
The removed material is not reduced to swarf as with drilling but remains a solid billet.
Yeah... I've watched a few videos on doing this on the lathe just never tried doing it.
Awesome ! I have to do this with a 3 in chuck for my mini atlas and 6 inch for lathe I'm building. I'm not so scared to try it now . Thank you
If you have a bandsaw it's way easier to cut the corners off. Its way easy and easier on your lathe.
@@WinkysWorkshop I'm taking my portable band saw and framing it to be my cutoff bandsaw . I did complete 1 project I completed my fly cutter and I am so amazed at how well it works . That's my first project ever so now on to the list which you have inspired me enough to do others before I ever tackle building my lathe . With my mill and my mini atlas lathe I see future things I never dreamed of .
@@ronaldcrowder404 Yes with a mill and lathe you can do a lot!
Nice job Mr. Winky!!! The 13 inch LeBlond I'm working on now has a 4 jaw chuck on it and a 3 jaw that don't fit. I will have to figure something out when it comes time. Thanks for sharing!!!
Thanks for watching. Is the Leblond a screw on chuck too?
@@WinkysWorkshop Yes sir it is. I took the 4 jaw off and tried the 3 jaw and the threads were different so I just put the 4 jaw back on. It is all scattered all over my shop right now getting cleaned and painted so I'm not too worried about it yet...
@@dannywilsher4165 - Make a video of the restoration.
Trepan pronounced “tree pan”.
Obviously not a big deal.
Great video.
Thanks,
John
Ha... yeah, I had a feeling I was saying that wrong but thanks!
Don't lean too hard on the e. Tree pan is how the sheriff on the Dukes of Hazard would pronounce it :-)
Thanks for the video, I have 2 backplates I need to make for my 1935, 13" LeBlond Regal lathe, one for a 8", 4 jaw and one for a 7" custom chuck as yet I don't know what it is used for, but I got them when I bought my latehe at the very end of and estate sale, I thing it was take whats left so whe can be done! I have fear in attempting the thread operation through 17/8" X 8 TPI also very strange At this point in my machining experience I have never cut a thread on an outside diameter not mention internal theading. With the help of your video I just may give it a try, thanks for the pointers of what not to do they are specially helpful.
Except for visibility internal and external are about the same. Practice on some 1/2-13 threads. I've got a thread cutting video too if you are interested although its external.
I was watchjng on my phone and my eyes are not as good as they used to be but it looked liked you indicator tip was on the chuck i think it is the chuck thats out and not your plate. Try backing your jaws almost max out and check the jaws. You sure did a VERY nice job restoring that lathe. Thanks for sharing.
Yeah, I was indicating the chuck body. You would think the thickness would be consistent but maybe not. Still .004 isn't too bad for a 3 jaw plus the 1-1/4" bar I indicated was only .001 out. I'm totally happy with that.
@@WinkysWorkshop for sure, in fact that is truly awesome when one thinks about the process of aligning the material in the lathe to start with. There are so many things working against us. Sometimes we (i) forget how imported material cleannes makes a differance.
Look like this lathe and your toolpost is more ridged than the Logan. It is amazing what a little more mass will do. Trepanning is the word that you were looking for. I don't recall many videos on the process. That would make a interesting topic.
I need to explore the Trepanning although I just watched a video on it. Easy to use but a lot of grinding to make the tool. It might be worth the effort however. Yes the South Bend is more rigid but the Logan cut smoother. Actually I think the Logan is just as heavy overall but the south bend is heavier in areas like the compound. The spindle is also slightly larger and with longer thread but about the same bore. I suspect this extra thickness on the spindle makes a huge difference.
Hey, its good to see you at it again! Good job with the 11, they are not so common. I've been busy making tooling for my SB9. Thumbs up! PS 1 thou on a 3-jaw gives you bragging rights I think...
I agree. .001" is great! Heck .004 is okay ! Thanks
I have to do the same sometime soon.
Be sure and take the corers off with a band saw. I don't have one (yet) but it works way better!
@@WinkysWorkshop corners? I'm starting with a 50lb cast iron weight... ;)
@@trollforge - Yeah... I remember now
@@WinkysWorkshop it's a 4" chuck, so I think I'll start with a 4 1/2" bimetal hole saw... If that doesn't work, I did just finish the wood to metal conversion on my 14" bandsaw.
Many ways to machine a part but the end result is what you were after good job
Thanks you sir
I too own and restored an 11 inch South Bend lathe built in 1939 with a 1 5/8"-8 spindle. I purchased a 4 jaw chuck with the correct 1 1/2-8 back plate and just bored and threaded it out for the 1 5/8-8 thread. There was plenty of material for the ID. Try it next time if you need another chuck and back plate for that lathe. Ed K. Cleve. Oh.
Cool... I wasn't sure there would be enough. Thanks!
@05:48 Wouldn't you want to use the tailstock to help align the mounted faceplate when you want to test the fit?
I guess you could.
You mentioned that your South Bend has a 1 5/8" spindle. Those few of us with South Bend 8" Junior's have to deal with another oddball - a 1 3/8" - 10 threaded spindle.
Interesting... I didn't know they made an 8 inch.
well done yea always hated turning square stock on lathe and ending up with that ninja throwing star
I need a band saw... it would have made life easier
What is the purpose of a chuck back plate if the chuck can screw onto the lathe? Listening to the crunch of the floor, how do you prevent chips from sticking to the soles of your shoes and if they do stick, what is your preferred removal method? FYI the name of the tool you're looking for is trepan and probably the thou runout is due to the three jaw chuck not being perfectly concentric with the bore.
The chuck is a plain back and has no threads. I had cardboard on the floor to catch chips and the camera mic picks it up rather well. Needle nose pliers on the chips in the shoes, what a pain! I've been corrected on the Trepan term a few times but not a problem... I knew I was saying it wrong. I think the chuck has a few places that contribute to being off a bit but .004" is not too bad especially considering its almost dead on at the jaws. I'll take is. 😀
Nice! something right, something wrong, show everything and teach us something!
Exactly! Rough cutting it round would have helped a lot.
South Bend made the 8" Junior in 1931, 1932, and 1933. I acquired mine a few years ago. It was originally sold in January of 1933. It has a 42" bed and sold for $140. Mine has the original motor, steady rest, all gears, etc. It being the height of the Great Depression, there were not more than a few dozen variations sold, so they are pretty rare . . . .
I love these old machines
is it the lathe series use in video?
1” through bore vs 3/4” through bore on Atlas 10/12” lathes perhaps?
Thanks,
John
I think the bore is 13/16" just like my Logan. This means the spindle is a bit thicker which might also explain why I don't get much chatter even with a lot of chuck overhang. After market chucks don;t work well on the Logan
My first video of yours. I have to be honest, I had a lot of cringing going on over here.
I am however old enough to be truly thankful that the world cannot watch videos of my past transgressions, because there were MANY. Looking forward to more content.
Yeah... I have better videos on making backing plate. I thought about removing this one, starting from square is a bad idea. Thanks for watching. I hope you find some videos on interest.
Fascinating. I can’t figure out in my head, how when you were cutting the thread, the boring bar knows the exact instant to engage the start of the thread - each time, while it is rotating?
Surely that’s not just you watching and winding the feed wheel at the exact right instant every time?
Cutting threads just blows my mind. I’m not sure I would attempt something as complicated as that.
ua-cam.com/video/jbRcs_Hhtuw/v-deo.html
I hate to admit this but I had my compound set at the wrong angle but that's not really what you are talking about. Thread cutting is fun. You need a threading dial on your lathe. The dial will tell you when to engage the half nut so that each cut falls in the correct place.
Hi Winky. I rencetly began to working with an 821 Logan Lathe that it was inherited to me for a great friend. It was from his father. I watched that you employed the 250-104 turret accessory at min 15:30. I would like to question some details.
Which is principal object from 250-104 accessory?
Which is accessory diameter?
Did you make a bronze bushing?
Wich steeld did you employed to make the shaft?
What other uses could it perform?
Thnaks fro ahead
Regards from Mexico.
Wow... you must have some good zoom. No way can I read those numbers! Anyway, I did a video on that. I just used a 3/4" brass bar and bored and reamed it to 3/8". The drill chuck has 3/8" 24 threads I believe so I just threaded the end of a 3/8" rod.
ua-cam.com/video/PczSsvRfiEk/v-deo.html
Like you say, a lot quicker and safer cutting of the corners, A quick question, why are they called southbend, is it the manufacturer or other, as I see so many different southbends. nice job on the backplate. Use a bit of wood on the ways when changing chucks, if you drop it it will save some heartache. Depending on which of the 3 positions I attatch my chuck I get 3 different readings on runout, once I found the position of least runout I marked both chuck and backplate so it always goes on that way, unlike yours my "backplate" is a permanent boss fixed permanently to the lathe and have to use the same one for everything, hence the need for marking.
South Bend lathes started selling lathes in 1906 and by 1930 they sold 50% of all lathes sold in the US. They went on to became the largest lathe maker in the world. I'm not sure if they ever went out of business but the company was sold and there are new lathes being sold under the south Bend name. I think Grizzly bought them. They used to be made in South Bend Indiana. I think the new ones are Chinese made. I thought about rotating the chuck on the mounting plate to see if the run out got better... might do that later.
Where can you find a 5" chuck like that? looking for one for my champion blower and forge 9L lathe.
Run a search for K11-125. I got mine on ebay for $59 with free shipping. I'm actually impressed with the quality!
you got it done without tearing anything up or losing blood or limb thats all that matters
Haha... so true! Thanks
LOL This dude, the way he does things, seems he's on the Brink of having a major accident and injury.
not really the kind of guy that should be working w Power machines........
Hi .nice video. I don't know alot about lathes yet as i only picked a1957 Hurcus 9" lathe so i am slowly learning about lathes . Is the drill attachment something you made or can you buy. As i could see that being very handy. Regards Andy Perth Australia
Thanks Andrew, I made the drill. ua-cam.com/video/PczSsvRfiEk/v-deo.html
I own a LeBlond 15 inch trainer with 2 1/8" - 5 spindle... I had to make every back plate that is used on that machine.. I had no chuck at all just a dog driver which I used as a face plate to make the back plates..... Mike in Louisiana
Cool... They are not hard to make but certainly time consuming and a lot of chips. Just curious, did you start out with a round chunk is steel?
@@WinkysWorkshop No... I started out with either a piece of shafting or a round that had been burned out of thick plate with a torch.....I needed more thickness than the piece of steel you used.. Cheers; Mike in Louisiana
I totally understand the dread of big projects. I have been making videos every few months about a pulley build for my JD 400. Its just been a pain to me..lol
I just jumped into a bigger one. I'm building a Briggs and Stratton Buckboard Flier replica. Look it up. Thanks for the comment.
@@WinkysWorkshop oMG! I have seen 1 before (online) will there be videos of the build?
@@craigtate5930 - Yes on the video but it will be a while. Right now I'm working on the drive wheel. I'm using a 2001 Kia Rio temporary spare tire/wheel and a 3.5 HP B&S. Another day and it will be finished.
@@WinkysWorkshop awesome, cant wait to see
Very good Wink! What size lathe is ideal for the home workshop? Stay healthy!
In my opinion a 9" or 10" by 24 long(between centers). The little mini lathes are too limited
What material did you choose for the back plate?
Just mind steel. It was actually a shim for under machinery.
I have a 10L South Bend. By assumuption, I thought I had a 6" chuck and just purchased a 6" - 4 jaw chuck. Do you think it's to big for my lathe?
It's a little big for the light weight version of the South Bend but I think the 10L has at least 1-7/8" spindle. I used a 6" chuck on both my 10" Logan lathes. They work but due to the amount of stick out from the spindle bearing I had to take lighter cuts. I have one for my SB 11" which has a 1-5/8" thread mount. It works okay. It's very handy to have but I use the 5 inch most often.
@WinkysWorkshop Thank you.
I'm glad you don't edit out your mistakes. I make so many mistakes, but your videos teach me how to reduce them.
@@Rochesterhome I do edit some out but yeah, I'm human and learning all the time.
Good work Winky. Next time you will know a better way and it will go faster. That one thousandth is better than my six inch chuck it has .003.
Thanks, I agree... and yes, most 3 jaws have run out that also varies with diameter. Unfortunately.
Haha, I've done this project on my Atlas. I did lop off the corners of the square, but man, all that interrupted cutting wears a guy out.
No kidding... I'll probably buy a 1" thick piece of round stock next time. With that being said, I was impressed with how my newly restored 1931 South bend handled the interrupted cuts.
At least with all your mess ups, we can see different ways to get out of a jam.. lol. Btw, where did you expect those 4 corners to go after you cut thru at 2000+ RPM?
2000 RPM? it was running 180. I wasn't too worried but I was standing to one side. In hindsight I should have gone to a friends shop and cut the corners off.
Nice work Mark! Is that a shop made toolholder @ 9:48?
Excuse me for butting in but yes he did a couple videos on it about a month ago. Worth the watch!
Thanks for noticing... Here's part one of the tool post video but be sure and watch part two also. I like my post, it seems to be very solid. ua-cam.com/video/j8p-_bMSBV8/v-deo.html
Thanks Frank, feel free to butt in anytime! 😃
thought i would put this out there..fitting back plate ..make it a dead nut fit...or make it two..thou or so bigger so if your 5c set up is off or chuck you can loosen and tap it into closer t.i.r..dont recall if it was myford ..or gerswteiner who did that on theirs..so asking out their what opinion is
The back plate needs to fit snug. That's why most chucks only have 3 bolts, holding the back plate on. Without the register holding the chuck centers the bolts would not be strong enough to keep it centered.
I know I am 3 years late.... but one of things that I would do first is move the power switch to a point where you dont have to reach over rotating machinery to kill the lathe.
It's the perspective in the video, the switch is pretty much even with the left end of the lathe and nowhere near the chuck.
can i know lathe name,brand, and series in this video
Its a 1931 South Bend 11" model 85A
Tree panning !
Yep yep yep... I should have tried that. Better yet, just round it off in a band saw (which I did not have at the time). I now have a band saw and have made another back plate... MUCH easier.
I have to get busy and do this for my 4" 3 jaw. But I'm starting with a 50lb free weight...
Do yourself a favor and round off the corners on a band saw. I did not have a band saw when I made the video. I made another back plate after making this video and I trimmed the corners. It was way easier! Also, I hate to admit this but I had the compound at the wrong angle. South bend was nice enough to put an indicator mark on the side of the cross slide to read the compound angle but they are not direct read. You have to do math to use them. Oddly enough the threads work well. Silly me...
@@WinkysWorkshop I started with a 110mm hole saw, but it didn't get in more than 1/8" before it gave up. I'm going to try resharpening it (it says it is Bimetal) or I will try a single point adjustable hole saw made for wood, and modify it to take an HSS bit....
Pucker factor 11 when he's trying to thread that heavy chunk of pointy steel onto the spindle with nothing protecting the ways of that beautiful old machine....
Thanks for the compliment on the machine. You should have seen it before I restored it!
@@WinkysWorkshop You did a FANTASTIC job! Absolutely beautiful. I currently have only an import machine, but I hope to own a nice piece of old American iron someday! (Please though, for my sake, next time cover the ways?... hahahaha)
I love these old machines. Thanks
@@DavidHerscher I love these old machines! Thanks
!!!.
It appears when ever you go to set a tool down or get something you step away from your lathe
Seems a cart or mobil table would be more efficient
Old age... ha. Honestly, I have another lathe and all my tools are nearest to it. This lathe is new to me. My other is a Logan but i think I like the SB a little better
I think you have your cross slide set at the wrong angle, it looks to be 30 degrees from the axis of the spindle, it should be 60
I could have gone my whole life without hearing that - Ha! I hate to say it but it looks like you might be right. That could explain why I had to go deeper on the threads. If this is the case I surprised the chuck screws on so well. I'm going to go set the angle right now and see what I did!
Well that's embarrassing... You are correct. I read the angle off a zero mark on the side. The South Bend has one on each side and the back. Of course it's easy to see how that was wrong, I just wasn't paying attention to the detail. The weird thing is, the compound will not turn far enough, it runs into the bolt for the cross slide nut. On my Logan you can turn it a full circle. I guess I could turn the compound the same as external threads and feed backwards with the compound BUT it;s possible this could cause problems. The wrong side of the tool would be cutting. Normally the lead screw backlash (for the carriage) is feeding against the cut. With the compound in the normal angle the tool may try to push the carriage. I guess you could snug the carriage lock slightly.
Let me know if you have a solution. - And thanks for being observant!
Winky's Workshop i would thread with a left hand internal threading tool in your case, starting from the left end of the part and coming out of the part while threading. Some benefits are better visibility, no chuck collision if you overrun the stop point, it’s not your case but if you had to thread a blind hole it would allow you to start from the very beginning with a very narrow clearance. Tool post pressure and cutter side would be on the left if you keep your post the same as for external threads! Thanks for the nice video, you got it tight and accurate anyhow!
I had the metal supplier cut me a piece off round stock. Saves work.
Yep... I was working with what I had BUT next time I'll do the same!
Unscrew is and turn it over 60 degrees. Then mesure again, see what it does....
I thought about that too and I may try it. Thanks!
Thread yourself up up a "Male Test Spindle" using some solid round stock before starting this job and you won't have to remove the chuck like that at all.
If I was threading 5 or 6 back plates I would but I'd rather test in on the spindle.
You will find that it's handy to have and it doesn't take that long to make.@@WinkysWorkshop
* @MF-ml8eh * The main reason I don't do this is that it introduces another variable. If my test piece is very slightly off it has the potential to double the error. I won't say all my back plates have been perfect (but they are getting better) but I aim to have very slight resistance when I mount the chuck. The thread mount of a 1.5" spindle is the weak point. The south bend is 1-5/8" which is better although not huge. The strength of the threads goes up exponentially with diameter. A 2" diameter would be 10x stronger. A good fit on a small spindle becomes very important.
Nice job. Too much walking back and forth from lathe to bench. Get or build a smaller table or cabinet on casters so you can roll it over to your machine. The runout may change slightly if you chuck up a different diameter test piece.
I'd say you are right about the runout. Yeah, this South Bend is new to me and my Logan 820 is my primary lathe. That's why nothing it where I need it. Thanks for watching.
Winky's Workshop - looking forward to future videos. Stay healthy.
@@nevetslleksah - Thanks and thanks for watching!
A tree pan cutter.
No doubt you are correcting my pronunciation? I knew it wasn't quite right.
17:06 me omw to make the holes with a cordless drill, cuz although i take my pills, i am mill deficient
At least need a drill press!
@@WinkysWorkshop let me fix the runout on my lathe... Then i will get a drill press, btw, if u like cars or 3D printing in general check my channel;)