Does this new information change your opinion on The End? Personally, I was satisfied with the conclusion of Frontiers Update 3, so I don’t see the need for The End to return.
The End is literally a thing that just wants to simply consume and destroy. You don't interview animals and ask them why they ate another animal. They did it cause they were hungry! That's it.... That would be goofy af to continue to make games about The End when that was its only purpose. Not every villain needs some deep philosophical reason as to why they do evil shit lmfao. I'm with people that wanna know more about the ancients but sometimes things aren't meant to be as deep as people make it out to be. TL;DR: Moon bad, Sonic good....
@@Hey_Childish Some people are just terrible people. We don't always need a reason for their crimes. They're evil, and they need to pay for their crimes. That's that.
I really like The End; I like how manipulative and powerful it is as a villain. Also, I think the simplicity of its design is what makes it, in my opinion, brilliant. Other than representing death, I like to think that the moon is an inevitable thing, and associating The End with that is what makes this character even more ominous. (It was also really cool to see The End hovering above the planet during Update 3's final battle.)
I get why having the end resemble the moon may seem anticlimactic, but if someone who appreciates thematic purpose, I think the design is actually quite clever. For as long as stories have been told, the moon has been made to represent the ending of a story as the sun rises on a new day. So I’d say it’s quite fitting that THE END would be represented this way. Not to mention that since it has absolutely no facial features, it’s a bit more unsettling in the way that there is nothing recognizable as a living creature from it beyond its dialogue.
I especially love how this is represented in The Final Horizon with the dark moon floating above you during the final boss. The original ending heavily implies that not only is The End not at full power when we fight it, but a fully powered End is pretty much unbeatable. With this in mind, its presence basically symbolises the looming apocalypse. You see that thing above you, and you know the end is near.
@@void_summoner_89 I hope not, I think the end works best as a simple force of nature it simply serves the purpose of being a neutralizer in the cosmic existence
TBH the End never really bothered me too much because of the role it played in the story of the Ancients. It wasnt really "Sonic's final boss" it was the final boss for the Ancients. It was their antagonist and Sonic more or less stumbled into it. Interestingly, the Moon is often seen as a symbol of Death or "conclusion" in many cultures so Sonic seeing it as a ghostly Moon-like figure is pretty eerie. Its made even creepier by seeing it in the background of Sonic Superstars... it may have just been an easteregg but it also foreshadows the battles ahead for Sonic.. Sega will never get too grim with Sonic but a manifestation of Death hovering above his younger self is a pretty bleak visual. It's vagueness is definitely disappointing as someone who loves Sonic lore but I also think its a bit interesting. Like the Chaos Emeralds-Its this magical, mysterious thing from outer space.. Who knows what else is up there in the stars? It makes the world of Sonic feel bigger.
How can people claim The End is a fraud when we saw all throughout the story what it’s capable of? Like we saw it use one, ONE laser to destroy the ancients home planet. Then it not only fought ALL 4 TITANS at once, but actually overpowered them. We know that Sonic is getting stronger through the years, as shown in Generations when base form Sonic beat Perfect Chaos, despite needing to go Super in Adventure. And even with Sonic getting stronger each game he 1: needed Super Sonic to fight the titans, (The End fought all 4 titans at once remember) And 2: Sonic needed to use the Cyber Energy ON TOP of Super Sonic to finally defeat The End, and you can see Super Sonic is physically beat up and exhausted after the fight. Even if The End doesn’t LOOK Imposing, it most definitely is, and is by far the strongest enemy Sonic has faced. The only reason Solaris is number 1 is cuz Time/Space abilities are overpowered af. But in terms of Raw Power, yeah The End is the strongest
Yeah based off the power scaling I tried to do, I think it’s reasonable to assume the claim that The End is the second most powerful boss sonic has faced is true.
@@SonicHubYT you mean abilitys not power scaling bc raw power goes to end base off sonic own power scaling lore bc the sonic rush adventure egg wizard debatable stronger than 06 final boss bc dimensions so ye terms raw power end strongest boss
I just think The End wasn't used properly. They represented this threat as a planet killer, it has taken lives and from visions have shown to torment the ancients and defeated them. Even with The Final Horizon I felt like there was something missing. Sonic never actually gets to fight The End one on one, he only fought Supreme and threw itself at it. Making it look like a joke when it was implied throughout the story this threat wasn't. It coming back is a bad story decision, recurring villains is Eggman's thing, not for gods. I just wished they did a little more with The End before they killed it.
I think the major issue regarding this topic is not why The End is not coming back, but rather how. The boasting only works when you show the villain's ego actually crush itself with the realization of "Oh shit, i actually didn't plan that, i fucked up". We didn't get anything like this. By keeping The End silent throughout the entire final boss fight in Final Horizon and not showing it actually panic or sound scared literally undermines the whole concept of it. THE END FUCKED AROUND AND WAS ABOUT TO FIND OUT. But nah. Just clap dem purple cheeks and let it go boom. Don't explain in-game. Don't let it have a final dialogue. Just kill it. I'm not mad that The End is not coming back. I'm mad that they wrote it off in the worst way possible.
Because the end has no reason to fear it's demise.the end isn't really dead. The end is personification of death it acts a neutralizer/order to the cosmic existence. While yes the end was defeated and this incarnation will probably never comeback it doesn't mean it was outright lost. The end said that some form of the end will come and get sonic, and it isnt entirely wrong. One of the many forms of death is natural causes, and seeing as how sonic canonically does age, it's pretty safe to assume that sonic will eventually succumb to natural causes eventually proving the ends point.
The monologue was the best part of fighting The End. So I was a little disappointed in Update 3 when The End didn’t reveal what it truly looks like and that we didn’t fight it directly.
I always got an eldrich unknowable feeling to The End, with it seemingly originating from the cosmos and being practically unbeatable, so I like how The End is just a purple moon that can just summon attacks and projectiles from literally nowhere because it leans into that unknowable eldrich entity feeling. Where are these attacks coming from? How is it talking and concious if it's just a purple moon? It purposefully doesn't makes sense, and that's what makes it so interesting to me. I just wish we got a proper titan style Moon fight where it leaned into that unknowable nature more, maybe with it shapeshifing and stuff, but im more than happy with what we got.
The thing is the End is an ever changing force. We know it caused a whole civilization to flee from their own planet while it was on its warpath. It’s formless as far as we know and just uses objects as avatars. I’m hoping if it shows up again it actually it shows it’s true form.
I don't personally think the moon version of the end would need to come back but having the end be omnnipresent, lurking in the shadows would've been cool Ians point about otjer final bosses not returning is a weird one because all those bosses had conclusions that made a fine point on the boss not returning. I don't know how the end was defeated in the final horizon (i'll spoil that for myself soon) but the original ending left a lot to be desired. For 10 months, nonody really knew whether or not the end was truly defeated and now after thus confir.ation, it kind of feels like a surprise rug pull
The Final Boss Fight in Frontiers I would call a brutal but kind of cool boss in the entire story. The difficulty is the only problem with the fight, and I remember Chris AKA SonicHub getting annoyed with this boss, and I don't blame him, it's rigged. It's so weird that we barely kniw anything about The End, because all we know what it was trying to do and who they are. The OG version of the Boss Fight was too hard, but with the Final Horizon update it made the ending a lot better. They definitely cooked with it. It'd be cool if this entity in future Sonic games and possibly find out more lore.
The End was decent in Sonic Frontiers and the final Boss in Frontiers a lot of fans hated the final boss Fight in Frontiers. The end was a pretty strong Sonic enemy. The end definitely has a great backstory in Sonic Frontiers. The final boss fight I didn’t like. This Sonic lore about the end is crazy. I definitely wish in the original Frontiers we could just fight with Sonic abilities in the original frontiers Game but then the final boss fight is just a midi game. The eastern egg in Sonic Superstars with the end is not true. It seems like the end is gone forever and we won’t see the end again. Solaris was definitely a very strong Sonic enemy in the Sonic Franchise. I understand this Sonic lore now. Great video Chris)
The issue is that Ian Flynn didn’t need to say this. At all. I understand he was probably getting messages about it, but Sega could have quietly never brought The End back and no discourse would have happened. This is not something the general public, or Sonic Twitter, needed to know
@@Natezilla_2 Not necessarily. Him being afraid of water was exclusive to TV shows. Sonic doesn’t really seem afraid of water in the games especially since many levels involve him directly jumping into it.
Its Ian Flynn not Sega, a dark entity that's not eggman that comes back in different forms is what Sonic needs right now. To the guy claiming that it would undermine the story, Adam in record of ragnarok lost his fight against Zeus yet he managed to make humanity come together through that.
One thing i noticed in the ends updated final boss, is that supreme seems so different in its actions and such once the end kind of puppets the titan. in the fight, supreme attacks, moves around, and in general he does things with barbarian and beastly-like actions. (like how it charges at sonic and grabs him in that one qte, how his idle animations are holding itself together on multiple limbs, heck even the fact that it grows multiple arms) this persona change kind of makes you question the type of mentality and style the end has, because supreme wasn't as ruthless as he was before the end took over it.
for me I actually love the end, yes the boss fight in the main game could've been taken to a much more satisfying direction that we all would've wanted, yes the design could've been something more eldritch calamity but everything surrounding the end is in my opinion amazing the fact that it's the physical representation of death in this universe is really cool i think it's better then dark giga in my opinion, I love the fact that it's appearance changes depending on the person perception of death, the monologue is genuinely interesting in both English and Japanese's I feel like everything surrounding the end makes me forgive the design and fight we get with it in fact the fight and design majorly grown on me overtime I think their good although I would've like something eldritch horror like but I love the end and I'm perfectly content with it not appearing in the future although i feel like the end has major potential still like there were some implications that the end wasn't gone only its body but I get that Sega doesn't want to bring it back but i love this purple rock orb of death and no one will stop me.
The End, in idea, is one of Sonic's greatest villains of all time. He is the manifestation of death and the end of all things, his sole will and purpose being to eliminate the Chaos inherent in life and bring order to the universe. He is mainly an antithesis to the Chaos Emeralds themselves and their powers, and at the same time, he is the one who indirectly brought the emeralds to Sonic's world, he is mainly responsible for practically everything that happened in the franchise. Edit: The problem according to Flynn's statement, is not The End returning, because it really shouldn't return, this was the conclusion and liberation of the Ancients. The problem is that he says that The End's entire speech is just an "evil villain's speech" and takes away all the weight that this villain can have
His biggest problem is that his battle is a total break from what the game had built up to that point, not to mention that the predecessor Boss (Supreme) is literally the weakest boss in the game, and right after that you have a Minigame💀. Imagine how incredible a battle would be against that massive Moon that we saw a little of its scale in Update 3, where we actually attacked it with Super Sonic and even controlled the Supreme Titan in some decent way
@@giovannanakata8083yeah no he really dropped the ball with that. Personally I feel that the End could've served as an introduction to much larger, still-existing or active threats in the series's universe. Heck, a lot of the lore Frontiers dropped can- and hopefully will be- used for the next mainline entry in the franchise, but wow. As much as I like the concept of reincarnating bosses and having major bosses share ties with past bosses (Kirby is goated for that reason), I can understand why Ian and Sonic Team don't want to take the series in that route for the time being... but they really shouldn't have axed this character by saying "haha, the cool speech was just a dumb monolouge to make them look scary" because it makes they look like they're incapable of introducing interesting concepts into the story even though the majority of the game is proof thst they can. TLDR; The ending for The End didn't feel like the end but apparently it is the end and it's disappointing how it ended😂😂😂
The End not returning is wasted potential. The writers could easily give The End a new smaller form. It would honestly be stupid not to give The End a new form.
Ian Flynn wasn't involved in superstars nor is he in charge of the narrative, so forgive me for not taking his word for it that that moon isn't the one that The End possessed or that it's dead. It's a formless entity that can transfer to different types of physical matter. I'd rather hear from Izuka about it. I'm not mad, I'm just not taking Flynn seriously.
Yeah there’s no way that they didn’t sneak that in as an Easter egg reference idgaf lmao. I mean lore wise yes it’s not the end, but that doesn’t mean it’s not an Easter egg
@@SonicHubYTyeah. And why is anyone taking Flynn seriously? He already pointed out that he's not in charge of the lore or narrative, so his word on X, formally known as Twitter, means almost nothing.
@@magical_pixie_horse7346 Im pretty sure he is on the sonic "lore council" or whatever so he relays from SEGA whatever the current stance or position is on a given topic. He might not be in charge, but he is merely the messenger on the currently in-flux sonic lore.
That's true, but he's definitely on their payroll to make sure the continuity is together. Just logically speaking, why would it be moving around in a game that is technically in the past (Well, in the past from Sonic's perspective since The End is tens of thousands of years old) and it's been imprisoned for YEARS? They wouldn't hire people like him or others as lore managers if what they said doesn't hold water. This is more than likely a easter egg.
I don't agree with the end being weaker than Solaris. Like,The End was literally the only villain to actually knock the super form out of Sonic,and it wasnt just the super form,it was a powered up with cyber energy super form. Say what you want about Solaris but super Sonic was actually doing damage to him while The End was actually overwhelming Super Sonic. The End has shown better feats with offense and defense and the only argument i can have for Solaris is that it is kinda of immortal,but immortality does not make you the strongest (try imaging a immortal version of yourself vs Prime Mike Tyson,i'm sure immortality won't help you out)
Knuckles: "Am I Joke to you?" All jokes aside you might be on to something. But also it really depends, how strong is super sonic 2 compared to 3 super hedgehogs? Solaris's very existence caused time/dimensions to not even exist, and the end of the world. So I do think it makes sense when they say that Solaris is the strongest.
Despite Sega not wanting to admit it, power creep does exist in Sonic. And Sonic gets progressively stronger throughout the games. Biggest example being Generations Sonic being able to beat Perfect Chaos without his super form. And when Forces came out, there were statements by Sega themselves saying that Infinite was Sonic’s strongest enemy or adversary. Which obviously puts him above the likes of Solaris, Alf Layla Wa Layla, Dark Queen Merlina, (yes, the Storybook games are canon due to Generations.) and the Time Eater.
@@SonicHubYT that is the only question mark,how much powerful is Sonic who fought The End. The thing we have to remember is that Sonic is always getting stronger (love or hate it,Sonic Forces has one of the biggest examples of it,as Infinite did state that Sonic gets stronger at an alarming rate) so in theory the Super Sonic that fought The End is way more powerful than the one that fought Solaris and he still had no hope of winning at all as we seen he can't defend himself against the most basic attacks from The End. As far as we know,Super Sonic is superior to Solaris when it comes to power because he did beat him (as did Shadow and Silver in their respective time periods) but couldn't really kill him due to his immortality. So if i'm not tripping it goes like Solaris
@@SonicHubYTI think the thing with Knuckles is that Sonic had only just used Super Sonic for the second time, so he's not used to maintaining the form after a major hit. Knuckles is indeed a strong individual, but at the time Sonic wasn't at full potential like in Frontiers
So, in the main story, it says to destroy the "fake moon," so does that mean like the end's true form is not, like a giant big the cat inspired asteroid. Or do they mean a fake moon as in its just not the real moon?
Sonichub the only reason why sonic fans wanna to play the final update is to have a better final boss battle and a new true ending and a new sonic form like this what this whole wait was about💯👍
The “blue one” is obviously Bjg Little Planet from Sonic CD & Sonic 4 Episode II/Mania/Metal. As for The End itself, it stated has been watching over Sonic & co for a long time defeat machines and Gods that were mighty. So what happens in Sonic Superstars? You defeat both powerful giant mechs and a freaking DIMENSIONAL DRAGON that sealed away for its destructive power by another ancient civilization. That also needed Super Sonic & Trip to defeat. This marks the first time in the Classic era that the Sonic cast defeated an eldritch being BEFORE the events of Sonic Adventure onwards sets off the modern era trend of doing so. Since Superstars is set FAR in the past, this means that THIS event is the catalyst going forwards is where it truly begins to keep on eye on Sonic’s exploits.
Technically, the only reason for why Solaris took three super forms to beat was because he was in three different timelines at the same time. If Super Sonic had that same ability, then Solaris would have been done for. So, I personally think that The End is the strongest boss in all of Sonic.
Whats lame about this is that the franchise once again just feels aimless. The End (what wiped out the ancient civilizations we've been learning little things about since 1998) would have been the perfect choice for an overaching villain. I get the "purple moon dumb" criticism, easy fix, change its form, make it something else, but keep the character/concept of the End alive. All this information we have about lost alien races is pretty much now wasted. The Ancients, the Gizoids, the Babylonians, the unknown civilizations teased by all the myriad of thousand-year-old ruins we've ran through over the years from S3&K to S4:EP1 to SA to 06 to Unleashed to Lost World and everything in-between? Maybe even some Echidna clans? Wouldn't it have been cool if they tied the End to all that? That it was the End that wiped out all life in the past? A gateway to dive deeper into Light/Dark Gaia and Gaia energy in general, maybe recontextualize it as a failed project to defeat the End, a bioweapon, not to different from Project Shadow on that regard? The End could have been our Thanos, the villain of all villains, the one that could have hyped up and united the fanbase, all unanimously screaming "IT ALL COMES TO THIS! IT'S ALL COMING TOGETHER, LET'S GO BABY". The End could have been what the Reapers were in Mass Effect, if you know about Mass Effect you know how raw peak that would have been, make the End's sole purpose be wiping out all life in the galaxy with the same tension, horror and efficiency the Reapers did in that franchise. But no... No, it was all just a purple rock. We could have had it all, the perfect antagonist to one of the greatest legacy franchises of all time, the villain of all villains, the thign we could have looked back to after a decade and "Yeah, that was peak fiction, truly a masterpiece". No. It's just a purple rock. There's nothing more to it, no geeky theories, no nerdy epic stories about to unfold, no promises of the ultimate power fantasy. It was all just a purple rock... THAT'S what sucks, THAT'S why this is a controversy. I get that the fanbase is notoriously toxic and whiney but my God is it totally warranted this time.
I see you what you mean, that does make a lot of sense. For me, the story was so confusing the way it was told, and maybe needed a little more time to flesh it out fully because I swear I didn't even know wtf the end was. The first impression I had with it was was killed everything for me. I think a lot of what we know about the boss I had to discover well after the story so maybe if they made it all more clear throughout what we were dealing with, I would maybe feel more disappointed about not seeing it again.
You know what that does make a lot of sense I didn't really think of it that way. I agree that the potential for the boss was definitely missed, I just think the rushed original ending to the game soured my perception of it, and the boss design didn't help. The way they tell frontiers story needed just like a little more time to cook and to be more clear because I swear on my first playthrough I had no idea wtf the end even was lol.
Even if I don't like the end that much, I do see where your going with your idea of villian of all villians idea. Kinda reminds me of how Kirby pulled that off with Dark matter/Void Termina.
@@jareader3295 Yeah, I think it would have been really cool. Imagine if we got some sort of flashback or texts of lore about the Black Arms (I'm gonna refer to Black Doom's species as the Black Arms since we have no idea what they're actually called, I know the Black Arms technically aren't Black Doom's species, I digress) for instance, showing us that they were once not the belligerent and conquering race we saw them as in Shadow the Hedgehog but something more in line with, idk, how the Qunari were in Dragon Age or the modern Mandalorians in Star Wars, aggressive to be sure but isolated, more interested in upholding their traditions and honor than anything else. What if the End obliterated their homeworld ages ago far away from Earth and Black Doom was amongst the only survivors of it, becoming more savage and primal while in search of a new home to immigrate/conquer before stumbling upon Earth with the Black Comet? Terrorized the planet a bit until he found warnings of the Ancients about the End and got scared, left the planet only to return 2000 years later braver than ever, make a deal with Gerald Robotnik and invade the planet once and for all once his Ultimate Lifeform was ready for action? How cool would that have been? To make the End THAT involved with the lore, retroactively making past villains like Black Doom and the Black Arms way more nuanced and interesting in the process. Again, this is why I'm mad the End essentially leads to nowhere due to it being a one-and-done villain, like what's even the point then.
Perhaps the purple moon being present in Superstars is simply The End's body, or shell. As in, its consciousness was sealed in the Supreme Titan in cyberspace, and its shell was left orbiting the Earth all that time. That may have been what the developers were going for. The flaw with this theory is that it contradicts the statement about The End looking different to each person.
That claim does'nt make sense as 'what the developers were going for'. They've clearly stated that Classic Sonic is in an alternate dimension in Forces. They could go back to saying Classic Sonic is in the past as well since they want to unite the lore now, I suppose. But the point is, The End exists in Superstars as his lore is always linked to the Chaos Emerald no matter the Timeline. So no, he was'nt eradicated in Classic's timeline unlike Modern's which is why there are some traces of him in the Final Superstars Boss. Ian Flynn has lied and covered up things before so I dunno..but he seems like up to his usual diversionary tactics just to stir up the community again. Not the first, won't be the last.
@@mechashadow That plot point in Forces has been addressed as a miscommunication/mistranslation many times. TailsTube says Classic and Modern are just past and future and the same timeline, Generations says Classic and Modern are just past and future and the same timeline, Sonic Adventure has CD flashbacks, Sonic Prime has Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 & Knuckles flashbacks, IDW and Frontiers reference Classic a bunch of times. Classic has always been the same as Modern.
@@KOTSOSMC2002 Sounds more like a retcon but I can accept that, still does'nt change my theory for the most part. The reason I call it a retcon is because Iizuka has been caught explaining Classic Sonic as a split timeline from Generations for Forces in interviews for the gaming press a couple of times but I honestly prefer this retcon tbh.
@@mechashadow Since Sonic Adventure, the first Modern game ever made, had a direct Sonic CD flashback I'd hardly call it a retcon. If anything the line from Forces is the retcon, which has since been addressed. Aka the retcon has been retconned and we're back on track!
@@KOTSOSMC2002 That's fair. But that's exactly why I'm happy they retconned the retcon cause it was stupid. I can even get on board with a good retcon but they're hard to find.
I mean, I agree with the end being missed potential that could've had a better appearance. But No, the Blue moon is the regular moon, the purple one is The End. Either an Easter egg, or a reference to it saying 'i saw your mind' so it's not actually there, but we see it. The moon never looks purple in any condition, it can look red but that's about it. I'm sorry Ian.
Honestly i was hoping for a reincarnation of the end but since ian flynn said its gone, its gone. So now its time to speculate and critical think on how the next boss could be even more deadly than the end 😅
Maybe not more deadly than The End, but something probably on Sonic's level and a bit threatening. Or it could just be Eggman with another devious plot
My thoughts remain more or less the same: I never really saw The End as this game's antagonist. (it felt more like a plot device, similar to Solaris, Dark Gaia, Time Eater and Chaos) For me, the actual antagonist is Sage (or rather, Team Eggman but he was relegated to flashback duty until the last island) because she was the one who spent the entire game having backs and forths with the protagonists. Also yes one could argue that we never really saw her as a threat, but when was the last time we saw Eggman as the main threat of any given game? Long story short, I hope The End stays dead (and sealed off in the Classic Timelines) but bring back Sage instead of orbot and cubot cause the "sassy lost child" was a much needed upgrade, it's up there with Metal Sonic, Gamma, Omega and the SA2 Egg Walker.
Also, they did hype up The End so much with all the dialogue as well. Regardless of what Ian Flynn said, there was pieces in the original story that really hinted at The End returning. I personally don't care if it returns or not, but can't deny that it's looking like another retcon and I don't blame people for being mad about that. I can agree that the fanbase gets too toxic at times, but given some of the stuff that was literally in the game, you also can't blame the people that thought The End would return.
Idk I’ve seen people say that Sonic Superstars is like a flashback almost, like, the end is there because “I saw your mind while you ran through my prison” the end saw all of Sonic’s adventures. Idk that’s my fav take on it being there anyway
I think whether or not The End is the strongest or not kinda just boils down to how strong Super Sonic 2 is, and whether or not it's as strong as 3 Super forms, if not stronger Cause, unless I'm mistaken, Solaris didn't have any means to actually HURT Super Sonic the same way The End did Obviously there's no real way to determine that at this point, but it's definitely something to consider
Solaris was never as powerful as the Super trio, they only had to fight it 3 times at the same time to win, which is why all 3 of them fought. Afaik, they each pretty much solo'd their own version of Solaris. Finally, if Base Sonic in Generations surpasses Super Sonic in Adventure, I think it's safe to say that SS2 in Frontiers surpasses 3 Supers in '06.
I kinda love how the end looks cos it has 2 of my 3 favourite colours. Aka galactic colours. I thought fighting the end itself like it was just one final titan and not that trash shooter mini game I would be happier, but I can still immensely appreciate the new final boss.
Before Update 3, when THE END was just a moon, whenever I heard Sage say "Not even Super Sonic will be able to stop it", I always replied in my Sonic Voice; "Haha! A moon can stop me? Shut up! I'm gonna pee on it now!"
The end was definitely missed potential but i can get behind the idea that it was boasting about being immortal. Any entity that can easily wipe civilizations and planets can definitely let the idea of immortality get to its head. I also agree that the end is the 2nd strongest foe in the sonic Franchise because Solaris literally had to be fought by 3 different hedgehogs, at the same time, in 3 different dimensional plains. It's very existence was wiping out all of reality kind of like the time eater but on a much more destructive scale. Solaris was creating insta kill black holes all throughout the world. The end wasn't doing that, it was basically just one shot lazering planets. Very impressive and powerful but the end wasn't a multi-dimensional being to our knowledge. Super Sonic 2 is most likely stronger then 3 super form hedgehogs but he was fighting it solo until he got the gun for eggman. The end being able to knock Sonic out of Super sonic 2 is highly impressive but Solaris can do damage to Super form hedgehogs as well if they get hit or in Sonics case, attacks without charging up all the way. One more thing to note: in the solaris fight, each hedgehog has time to sub out to get rings. When fighting the end Sonic doesn't have time or anyone to sub out with so he can't regain his rings.
I like the theory that the “end” in sonic superstars is just the empty husk like if you take away the code of a robot the actual shell of the robot isn’t gone but the personality is gone
People were expecting The End to come back? Every villain Super Sonic defeated never came back, has been like this since SA1. Fans just don't want to admit ST went with a moon design because it was easier to model and animate. Ans because Frontiers' story is inspired by an old japanese novel about the moon or something, as revealed by Kishimoto in one interview. Also, the English script should never been taken as the canon story. Ian Flynn just adapted the dialogue in the western version, the official story is the japanese version written by Kishimoto himself, which has a different interpretation for The End.
What makes me smile is that The End *knows* about Solaris despite the fact Sonic 06 didn't happen and that Solaris itself is more powerful than The End.
Since the end “varies in appearance from person to person” and apparently the sonic cast that was included sees a purple moon as death itself, then why didn’t they have some form of reaction when they see their form (i want to say her so badly bc they were a female in the original story but was changed to sound a bit more masculine in the final horizon’s story) it would have been cool if sonic had like a small panic when he saw them for the first time, also it pains me that such a cool color pallete (I actually like the moons design, especially when it zooms in) was crafted into such a lame boss. (Still gave me trouble since i somehow struggled for like an hour on the original fight)
You can hear both a male and a female performance in the End's voice as soon as it drops the act of pretending to guide Sonic around. I don't think it was ever meant to be of any gender.
Sometimes, I think it was only a moon because Sonic really doesn't fear much. He even gets over his fear of water at times. Because of that, The End's form to Sonic is nothing that could scare him so it's just a moon. Believe it or not, Sonic's quite the fearless individual
I have a theory. When Classic Sonic disappeared in Forces, he was taken to Superstars in the same timeline and both are co-existing in different places. Seeing from the ruins of the death egg robots, Frontiers didn't happen too long after Forces, so both could happen at the same time. Though, that's just a theory. A GAME THEORY! Thanks for reading.
3:07 Technically anytime he interacts with the cyber cages. Every time he breaks open the cages, you see the digital energy go into Sonic and his friends acknowledge it. Especially seeing as Cyberspace is optional I mean yeah the end coming back would undermine the ending but the end itself was undermined day one. Complete miss.
A head canon i heard about was that sonic sees the end as a moon since in a way thats how shadow died or almost did to sonic the ark which looked similar to a moon is the one thing that nearly brought a freind to death hence why sonics incarnation of death is a moon
One thing I’d say is that The End and Supreme End in Final Horizon are similar in a sense to something from IDW Transformers: D-Void and Deceptigod. Deceptigod was a construct of D-Void made out of an armada of dead decepticons that was acting as it’s avatar in the living universe, while D-Void was a being that was comprised of multiple dead universes. Should D-Void absorb the living universe, it would be an unstoppable threat to the entire multiverse, with Megatron and Optimus Prime being the last bastions to stop it. This is similar to what The End does to the defeated Supreme in Final Horizon. “This shell was once my prison. Now, it shall be the avatar of my return. All shall perish. All shall return to order. To oblivion.” The End was still not anywhere close to the full power it could have been thanks to being sealed for millennia. But even with that, it was still enough of a threat that it took Super Sonic channeling the combined might of The Ancients to destroy it before it could reach full power. That’s just my take on it.
I think the problem with the message of the end was that it was too soon. Like imagine if this ending came after a mini arc of levels or games where we see multiple civilizations affected by the end for it to culminate on the starfall islands. I get where Ian Flynn was coming from the and the themes are fantastic but the themes and ideas kinda undermine the gravity of the end's presence. I think both ideas of end returning and end dying for good are great and can work each in their own ways but end dying for good just wasn't handled too well
8:58 Ik it's kinda out of the topic but man I can't get over by the fact of Infinite being the strongest enemy Sonic has ever faced considering how he was beaten even without going Super Sonic while Dark Gaia required Super. Or is Dark Gaia not considered a villain since it's destruction itself?
Dark Gaia and Light Gaia are literally in a cycle of rebirth and have existed since the beginning of time, they arent even dead at the end of Unleashed, just resting in the planet as they were supposed to so for The End to say Dark Gaia is finite, it is honestly needed to be retconned and the whole creation was all talk, they never showed it being so mighty.
9:05 true but each super hedgehog beat solaris across one of each timeframe, meaning each super hedgehog is more powerful than Solaris, Solaris just cant be destroyed completely by overpowering it
I actually liked THE END, it’s memorable… I agree, that it could have been more “huge” but it was alright, plenty of other bosses that are forgettable.
I was thinking that the purple moon wasn't THE END but it's prison. The Ancients sealed it away in two prison the moon then Cyber Space. After beating the moon it would crack open revealing the end with a familiar form and name Solaris.
I’m glad, The End is utterly unworthy to return, and I’ll be glad if we never see it again. Also, bosses boasting about their strength is not unheard of in Sonic
I like to think both endings are cannon due to the fact that they have the same results as sage comes back in the original ending and stays alive in the new ending.
So everyone is mad that “the end” got blown up. That thing was just gloating before it got blown up. The main villain in this series is Eggman and im ok with that. Eggman will find or create a much more deadlier entity, which is what we have always had in the series. Personally, despite that game being thrash to play the best villain in the series (in my opinion) was Mephilies and the most missed potential villain is Infinite. The end from what I’ve seen in UA-cam and the little amount of time of played through frontiers is just average.
I was literally arguing this before. People were like "Bro, the end said its the most powerful....it is....the it said it in the game!" And I was like "Yes, and I'm a 6'5" millionare with a bugatti, its real becase I said it right????" I think the end, and always have thought the end was over exaggerating its self. I'm not aaying it's "Weak" by any means, but def. Think its weaker than it says it is its self. I also think, that this scales back some of the feats / powerscaling that fans interjected about super sonic / the titans / the end, and thats part of why the discourse exists. Personally, I dont care much for the end, I think it's a stupid boss, and even if it looked cooler, it taked too much crap. Dark Gaia is my fav lmao.....
@@ИльфатГалимов-э6ф played it. Still, my opinion is the same. The update 3 boss was only slighty better, but still. Instead of fighing sonic in its own form/ with its own power, it hijacks a titan? Kinda lame imo.
Hope we just move on to a new n better villain or get more Eggman n Sage father n daughter evil relationship. I like concept of The End being a symbol of death, but I felt that just an excuse to hide the fact that they couldn't get creative with The End design n just come up with evil floating rock. Actually now that I think about, jesus now im extra disappointed with Update 3 ending now. Since Sonic's friends n Eggman have join the party to fight The End, we could have see difference versions of The End or what the characters say when they see The End since the devs said "We haven't seen The End tRuE fOrM". It would have been more hype if we played as Cyber Sonic n we get to fight The End's TRUUUE FORM. Hope they bring back the concept of characters seeing their version of what death looks like for a new villain and be creative with it. Like lets see what Sonic, Tails, Knuxs, Amy, etc sees their version of what death and get a hype moment for each of the characters facing death itself tho.
The only thing in the whole of Sonic Frontier that I even care about to this level... Is Sage a permanent member of the Eggman Empire cause I love that father/daughter dynamic
I just interpreted The End as an embodiment of a force of nature (death, entropy, oblivion, etc.). The whole inevitable and oblivion and that The End comes for you all. Even destroying the physical form of The End that we see as a purple moon...those things will still come, so The End's not entirely a fraud. Sonic just stopped that from happening today and at the hands of The End, but it will inevitably happen to everyone and everything eventually.
Classic Twitter. Yeah, The End didn't seem all that at first but I think it really worked out in the Update. Sometimes, I question some of the other people who are "fans" of Sonic. They tend to just find a way to shit on EVERYTHING they try to put out. All Ian said was that it was dead and everyone lost it. But when Solaris died or when Dark Gaia wasn't said to return until Sonic basically is long dead, nobody was mad and just constantly asks for the same bosses back. At least two people here made his point (10:35). They don't need to come back, that's why we even have The End because they just try to come out with newer things instead of recycling villains (almost like in Sonic Forces, which didn't work). If nobody has paid attention, they're improving from that. Is that NOT what everyone wanted? Sometimes people just don't know what they truly want from this series. If they want it to fall, they should just say so at this point. Sorry for the rant and have a good day everyone
It's literally Azathoth/Nibiru/Planet X. Chaos incarnate, the blind idiot god. Can't observe it's true form directly, otherwise you'll go mad. Feels like people either don't get that or dont know what those concepts/characters are
I can never be happy with this fanbase. As soon as I start feeling good about it, they come in and have another argument about something that's apparently a big deal NOW, but wasn't as much on release. The amount of arguments is honestly making my brain hurt and it's just tiresome to me. I know it's Twitter and they do stuff like this all the time, but that doesn't make anything better, since there's still a big problem. This is why I never plan on getting Twitter, X, whatever you want to call it.
Same here. I really question this fanbase sometimes because it's just a lot of bickering about things that should already make sense. In this case, The End is clearly dead now. It's not coming back. It could be in Superstars as a frozen body, but they're just theories and it could only be an Easter Egg
@@tailsfan10 I always thought it was just a Frontiers nod and nothing else. Although, I do think fair discussions have their place. Some examples are ones that are still affecting the Sonic series such as the whole timeline placement of my games, and also just your causal and civil debates about games, but when people start insulting each other and calling that an argument, then it's no longer an argument. In my opinion, this should have been addressed on release because it would have been a lot more relevant then. Would it be cool to see The End again? Sure. Do we need to see it again? No, if past villains have been given the same treatment. Sure, it'd be new, but people don't like the "fake moon" design, so I don't know what else they could do. I do think people's thoughts are valid, but count me out of this one...
The OG bullet hell fight against The End is still the best boss in the entire game. Man, if Kirby fans were like Sonic fans, they would riot about half of the true final bosses in the whole franchise. Lol.
The shooting mini game boss was such a slap in the face to the build up of the game imo lol. Update 3 fixes that but still that first impression was rough
My theory about sonic superstars timeline placement is that it does take place in the past... thats it because my other theory is that generations did split the timeline be due to the metal sonic boss fight we know that classic sonic has lived throught the events of CD at least. So all those events remain unchanged but since sonic saw his future he decited to do events differently but understands that he can't do anything to drastic. Not to mention that the classic sonic in forces has been altered to be sonic from the past again.
Heres what I think about all of this and its pretty simple! This is just the sorta thing that happens within the Sonic community when one thing in Sonic media is a bit overanalyzed and is thought about way too deep! At this point it doesnt even matte wether or not "The End" is still potentially alive or not! It can take whatever form it wants and as long as it causes no physical harm to any of us that's always a W in my book! Let's all just calm down and wait for the next mainline Sonic game to be revealed!
My headcanon was that the end was gonna comeback multiple times (each one with a different appearance) and that it was destroyed with a single hit by Cyber Sonic was set up by the end to return again in the future I'm not mad that the End won't come back, but I felt that it was underwhelming PS: Can I over analyze what Ian said? He's talking about the blue moon for 2 reasons 1 He's making fun of us by saying that we complain about the smalles details (which is kinda true ngl) 2 It's actually the ancients' higher power (the Zap symbol) because it's blue, just like everything that's ancient-like
Does this new information change your opinion on The End? Personally, I was satisfied with the conclusion of Frontiers Update 3, so I don’t see the need for The End to return.
Yeah I was satisfied but also hoping we could see it return in a future sonic game like a reincarnation or something 😅
im sad honestly i thought the end would be like Morpho knight from Kirby never being the main villain but coming back to try to destroy sonic
The End is literally a thing that just wants to simply consume and destroy. You don't interview animals and ask them why they ate another animal. They did it cause they were hungry! That's it....
That would be goofy af to continue to make games about The End when that was its only purpose. Not every villain needs some deep philosophical reason as to why they do evil shit lmfao. I'm with people that wanna know more about the ancients but sometimes things aren't meant to be as deep as people make it out to be.
TL;DR: Moon bad, Sonic good....
@@Hey_Childish Some people are just terrible people. We don't always need a reason for their crimes. They're evil, and they need to pay for their crimes. That's that.
Hey sonichub when will you do no jump sonic superstarsstars and Mario wonder
I really like The End; I like how manipulative and powerful it is as a villain. Also, I think the simplicity of its design is what makes it, in my opinion, brilliant. Other than representing death, I like to think that the moon is an inevitable thing, and associating The End with that is what makes this character even more ominous. (It was also really cool to see The End hovering above the planet during Update 3's final battle.)
I get why having the end resemble the moon may seem anticlimactic, but if someone who appreciates thematic purpose, I think the design is actually quite clever.
For as long as stories have been told, the moon has been made to represent the ending of a story as the sun rises on a new day. So I’d say it’s quite fitting that THE END would be represented this way. Not to mention that since it has absolutely no facial features, it’s a bit more unsettling in the way that there is nothing recognizable as a living creature from it beyond its dialogue.
Is it possible for the black arms to work for the end?
@user-jr7un4pf5z
Probably not. If anything, they, especially Shadow, would most likely form a militia and set a perimeter against Sonic.
I especially love how this is represented in The Final Horizon with the dark moon floating above you during the final boss. The original ending heavily implies that not only is The End not at full power when we fight it, but a fully powered End is pretty much unbeatable. With this in mind, its presence basically symbolises the looming apocalypse. You see that thing above you, and you know the end is near.
@@void_summoner_89 I hope not, I think the end works best as a simple force of nature it simply serves the purpose of being a neutralizer in the cosmic existence
TBH the End never really bothered me too much because of the role it played in the story of the Ancients.
It wasnt really "Sonic's final boss" it was the final boss for the Ancients. It was their antagonist and Sonic more or less stumbled into it. Interestingly, the Moon is often seen as a symbol of Death or "conclusion" in many cultures so Sonic seeing it as a ghostly Moon-like figure is pretty eerie. Its made even creepier by seeing it in the background of Sonic Superstars... it may have just been an easteregg but it also foreshadows the battles ahead for Sonic.. Sega will never get too grim with Sonic but a manifestation of Death hovering above his younger self is a pretty bleak visual.
It's vagueness is definitely disappointing as someone who loves Sonic lore but I also think its a bit interesting. Like the Chaos Emeralds-Its this magical, mysterious thing from outer space.. Who knows what else is up there in the stars? It makes the world of Sonic feel bigger.
Fancy seeing you here
How can people claim The End is a fraud when we saw all throughout the story what it’s capable of? Like we saw it use one, ONE laser to destroy the ancients home planet. Then it not only fought ALL 4 TITANS at once, but actually overpowered them.
We know that Sonic is getting stronger through the years, as shown in Generations when base form Sonic beat Perfect Chaos, despite needing to go Super in Adventure.
And even with Sonic getting stronger each game he 1: needed Super Sonic to fight the titans, (The End fought all 4 titans at once remember) And 2: Sonic needed to use the Cyber Energy ON TOP of Super Sonic to finally defeat The End, and you can see Super Sonic is physically beat up and exhausted after the fight.
Even if The End doesn’t LOOK Imposing, it most definitely is, and is by far the strongest enemy Sonic has faced. The only reason Solaris is number 1 is cuz Time/Space abilities are overpowered af. But in terms of Raw Power, yeah The End is the strongest
Yeah based off the power scaling I tried to do, I think it’s reasonable to assume the claim that The End is the second most powerful boss sonic has faced is true.
@@SonicHubYT you mean abilitys not power scaling bc raw power goes to end base off sonic own power scaling lore bc the sonic rush adventure egg wizard debatable stronger than 06 final boss bc dimensions so ye terms raw power end strongest boss
Do you mean that Solaris lives in the past, present, and future due to its abilities of space and time to transcend The End?
@@ИльфатГалимов-э6ф yes abilitys wise he's talking about
🎯
I just think The End wasn't used properly.
They represented this threat as a planet killer, it has taken lives and from visions have shown to torment the ancients and defeated them.
Even with The Final Horizon I felt like there was something missing. Sonic never actually gets to fight The End one on one, he only fought Supreme and threw itself at it. Making it look like a joke when it was implied throughout the story this threat wasn't.
It coming back is a bad story decision, recurring villains is Eggman's thing, not for gods. I just wished they did a little more with The End before they killed it.
He's well beyond a planet killer. If he's the 2nd strongest then he's stronger then the time eater who is a multiversal killer
The end is stronger than Polaris and its been stated that this incarnation may have failed but another will come back.
@@thedukeconiosantiago9180 Flynn said The End is dead and gone. There isn't going to be a reincarnation.
My guess is it probably used all its power controlling Supreme, and wasn't at full power to begin with.
I think the major issue regarding this topic is not why The End is not coming back, but rather how. The boasting only works when you show the villain's ego actually crush itself with the realization of "Oh shit, i actually didn't plan that, i fucked up". We didn't get anything like this. By keeping The End silent throughout the entire final boss fight in Final Horizon and not showing it actually panic or sound scared literally undermines the whole concept of it. THE END FUCKED AROUND AND WAS ABOUT TO FIND OUT.
But nah. Just clap dem purple cheeks and let it go boom. Don't explain in-game. Don't let it have a final dialogue. Just kill it.
I'm not mad that The End is not coming back. I'm mad that they wrote it off in the worst way possible.
Because the end has no reason to fear it's demise.the end isn't really dead. The end is personification of death it acts a neutralizer/order to the cosmic existence. While yes the end was defeated and this incarnation will probably never comeback it doesn't mean it was outright lost. The end said that some form of the end will come and get sonic, and it isnt entirely wrong. One of the many forms of death is natural causes, and seeing as how sonic canonically does age, it's pretty safe to assume that sonic will eventually succumb to natural causes eventually proving the ends point.
The monologue was the best part of fighting The End. So I was a little disappointed in Update 3 when The End didn’t reveal what it truly looks like and that we didn’t fight it directly.
I always got an eldrich unknowable feeling to The End, with it seemingly originating from the cosmos and being practically unbeatable, so I like how The End is just a purple moon that can just summon attacks and projectiles from literally nowhere because it leans into that unknowable eldrich entity feeling. Where are these attacks coming from? How is it talking and concious if it's just a purple moon? It purposefully doesn't makes sense, and that's what makes it so interesting to me. I just wish we got a proper titan style Moon fight where it leaned into that unknowable nature more, maybe with it shapeshifing and stuff, but im more than happy with what we got.
The thing is the End is an ever changing force. We know it caused a whole civilization to flee from their own planet while it was on its warpath. It’s formless as far as we know and just uses objects as avatars. I’m hoping if it shows up again it actually it shows it’s true form.
I don't personally think the moon version of the end would need to come back but having the end be omnnipresent, lurking in the shadows would've been cool
Ians point about otjer final bosses not returning is a weird one because all those bosses had conclusions that made a fine point on the boss not returning.
I don't know how the end was defeated in the final horizon (i'll spoil that for myself soon) but the original ending left a lot to be desired. For 10 months, nonody really knew whether or not the end was truly defeated and now after thus confir.ation, it kind of feels like a surprise rug pull
there can literally never be any piece of sonic media that doesn't contradict something in the lore.
The Final Boss Fight in Frontiers I would call a brutal but kind of cool boss in the entire story. The difficulty is the only problem with the fight, and I remember Chris AKA SonicHub getting annoyed with this boss, and I don't blame him, it's rigged. It's so weird that we barely kniw anything about The End, because all we know what it was trying to do and who they are. The OG version of the Boss Fight was too hard, but with the Final Horizon update it made the ending a lot better. They definitely cooked with it. It'd be cool if this entity in future Sonic games and possibly find out more lore.
The End was decent in Sonic Frontiers and the final Boss in Frontiers a lot of fans hated the final boss Fight in Frontiers. The end was a pretty strong Sonic enemy. The end definitely has a great backstory in Sonic Frontiers. The final boss fight I didn’t like. This Sonic lore about the end is crazy. I definitely wish in the original Frontiers we could just fight with Sonic abilities in the original frontiers Game but then the final boss fight is just a midi game. The eastern egg in Sonic Superstars with the end is not true. It seems like the end is gone forever and we won’t see the end again. Solaris was definitely a very strong Sonic enemy in the Sonic Franchise. I understand this Sonic lore now. Great video Chris)
The issue is that Ian Flynn didn’t need to say this. At all. I understand he was probably getting messages about it, but Sega could have quietly never brought The End back and no discourse would have happened. This is not something the general public, or Sonic Twitter, needed to know
I thought that after the shooting game the moon was going to open up and and reveal some kind of monster. Greatest disappointment of the century😢
Ngl I like the boss. The thing is, apparently depending who you are, you see the end differently. So Sonic saw the end completely differently to us
It's also supposed to look like someone's worse fear depending on that, so to Sonic, the End was a giant body of water lol 😂
@@Natezilla_2 Not necessarily. Him being afraid of water was exclusive to TV shows. Sonic doesn’t really seem afraid of water in the games especially since many levels involve him directly jumping into it.
@@TheAlphazoneYT Yeah, I said that more as a joke
I know he has worse fears than water
I will not rest until the line *"How would a being that knows no fear envision its very root"* is used.
Its Ian Flynn not Sega, a dark entity that's not eggman that comes back in different forms is what Sonic needs right now.
To the guy claiming that it would undermine the story, Adam in record of ragnarok lost his fight against Zeus yet he managed to make humanity come together through that.
I saw the title and immediately thought, "Sonic fans? Mad about something?? That's totally unheard of. 🙄" lmao
Of course there mad
*Their
@@Jaylobeansthey’re
@@EF2011lol yeah, and good thing that nobody calls it X
They never are happy
The End should be kept as a long running villain. Like now after that battle, it has got a shapeshifting weakened form doing background manipulation.
One thing i noticed in the ends updated final boss, is that supreme seems so different in its actions and such once the end kind of puppets the titan. in the fight, supreme attacks, moves around, and in general he does things with barbarian and beastly-like actions. (like how it charges at sonic and grabs him in that one qte, how his idle animations are holding itself together on multiple limbs, heck even the fact that it grows multiple arms) this persona change kind of makes you question the type of mentality and style the end has, because supreme wasn't as ruthless as he was before the end took over it.
for me I actually love the end, yes the boss fight in the main game could've been taken to a much more satisfying direction that we all would've wanted, yes the design could've been something more eldritch calamity but everything surrounding the end is in my opinion amazing the fact that it's the physical representation of death in this universe is really cool i think it's better then dark giga in my opinion, I love the fact that it's appearance changes depending on the person perception of death, the monologue is genuinely interesting in both English and Japanese's I feel like everything surrounding the end makes me forgive the design and fight we get with it in fact the fight and design majorly grown on me overtime I think their good although I would've like something eldritch horror like but I love the end and I'm perfectly content with it not appearing in the future although i feel like the end has major potential still like there were some implications that the end wasn't gone only its body but I get that Sega doesn't want to bring it back but i love this purple rock orb of death and no one will stop me.
Good for you
The good old sonic fans war. Never change sonic fans (please change tho)
(Please change NOW)
(We don't need any more wars)
The End, in idea, is one of Sonic's greatest villains of all time. He is the manifestation of death and the end of all things, his sole will and purpose being to eliminate the Chaos inherent in life and bring order to the universe.
He is mainly an antithesis to the Chaos Emeralds themselves and their powers, and at the same time, he is the one who indirectly brought the emeralds to Sonic's world, he is mainly responsible for practically everything that happened in the franchise.
Edit: The problem according to Flynn's statement, is not The End returning, because it really shouldn't return, this was the conclusion and liberation of the Ancients.
The problem is that he says that The End's entire speech is just an "evil villain's speech" and takes away all the weight that this villain can have
His biggest problem is that his battle is a total break from what the game had built up to that point, not to mention that the predecessor Boss (Supreme) is literally the weakest boss in the game, and right after that you have a Minigame💀.
Imagine how incredible a battle would be against that massive Moon that we saw a little of its scale in Update 3, where we actually attacked it with Super Sonic and even controlled the Supreme Titan in some decent way
What disappointed me wasn't the fact that he wasn't coming back
But Ian said his whole speech was pure bullshit.
@@giovannanakata8083yeah no he really dropped the ball with that. Personally I feel that the End could've served as an introduction to much larger, still-existing or active threats in the series's universe. Heck, a lot of the lore Frontiers dropped can- and hopefully will be- used for the next mainline entry in the franchise, but wow. As much as I like the concept of reincarnating bosses and having major bosses share ties with past bosses (Kirby is goated for that reason), I can understand why Ian and Sonic Team don't want to take the series in that route for the time being... but they really shouldn't have axed this character by saying "haha, the cool speech was just a dumb monolouge to make them look scary" because it makes they look like they're incapable of introducing interesting concepts into the story even though the majority of the game is proof thst they can.
TLDR; The ending for The End didn't feel like the end but apparently it is the end and it's disappointing how it ended😂😂😂
The End not returning is wasted potential. The writers could easily give The End a new smaller form.
It would honestly be stupid not to give The End a new form.
What could of been nice if Cyber Sonic went into THE END moon core and fought THE TRUE END inside of it.
Personally i really like The End cause having a representation of the Grim Reaper in the Sonic's lore is kinda amazing if you think about it
Its Azathoth tho, not the grin reaper
@@ashemabahumat4173 who the heck is Azathot?
@@Skypatroller_BenCDI do not know
@@Skypatroller_BenCD this is actually kinda depressing...
@@ashemabahumat4173 why?
Ian Flynn wasn't involved in superstars nor is he in charge of the narrative, so forgive me for not taking his word for it that that moon isn't the one that The End possessed or that it's dead. It's a formless entity that can transfer to different types of physical matter. I'd rather hear from Izuka about it. I'm not mad, I'm just not taking Flynn seriously.
Yeah there’s no way that they didn’t sneak that in as an Easter egg reference idgaf lmao. I mean lore wise yes it’s not the end, but that doesn’t mean it’s not an Easter egg
@@SonicHubYTyeah. And why is anyone taking Flynn seriously? He already pointed out that he's not in charge of the lore or narrative, so his word on X, formally known as Twitter, means almost nothing.
@@magical_pixie_horse7346 Im pretty sure he is on the sonic "lore council" or whatever so he relays from SEGA whatever the current stance or position is on a given topic. He might not be in charge, but he is merely the messenger on the currently in-flux sonic lore.
@@SonicHubYT hence why I said, almost nothing.
That's true, but he's definitely on their payroll to make sure the continuity is together. Just logically speaking, why would it be moving around in a game that is technically in the past (Well, in the past from Sonic's perspective since The End is tens of thousands of years old) and it's been imprisoned for YEARS? They wouldn't hire people like him or others as lore managers if what they said doesn't hold water. This is more than likely a easter egg.
I don't agree with the end being weaker than Solaris. Like,The End was literally the only villain to actually knock the super form out of Sonic,and it wasnt just the super form,it was a powered up with cyber energy super form. Say what you want about Solaris but super Sonic was actually doing damage to him while The End was actually overwhelming Super Sonic. The End has shown better feats with offense and defense and the only argument i can have for Solaris is that it is kinda of immortal,but immortality does not make you the strongest (try imaging a immortal version of yourself vs Prime Mike Tyson,i'm sure immortality won't help you out)
Knuckles: "Am I Joke to you?"
All jokes aside you might be on to something. But also it really depends, how strong is super sonic 2 compared to 3 super hedgehogs? Solaris's very existence caused time/dimensions to not even exist, and the end of the world. So I do think it makes sense when they say that Solaris is the strongest.
Despite Sega not wanting to admit it, power creep does exist in Sonic. And Sonic gets progressively stronger throughout the games. Biggest example being Generations Sonic being able to beat Perfect Chaos without his super form. And when Forces came out, there were statements by Sega themselves saying that Infinite was Sonic’s strongest enemy or adversary. Which obviously puts him above the likes of Solaris, Alf Layla Wa Layla, Dark Queen Merlina, (yes, the Storybook games are canon due to Generations.) and the Time Eater.
@@SonicHubYT that is the only question mark,how much powerful is Sonic who fought The End. The thing we have to remember is that Sonic is always getting stronger (love or hate it,Sonic Forces has one of the biggest examples of it,as Infinite did state that Sonic gets stronger at an alarming rate) so in theory the Super Sonic that fought The End is way more powerful than the one that fought Solaris and he still had no hope of winning at all as we seen he can't defend himself against the most basic attacks from The End. As far as we know,Super Sonic is superior to Solaris when it comes to power because he did beat him (as did Shadow and Silver in their respective time periods) but couldn't really kill him due to his immortality. So if i'm not tripping it goes like Solaris
@@SonicHubYTI think the thing with Knuckles is that Sonic had only just used Super Sonic for the second time, so he's not used to maintaining the form after a major hit. Knuckles is indeed a strong individual, but at the time Sonic wasn't at full potential like in Frontiers
@@jschannel6319 exactly!
So, in the main story, it says to destroy the "fake moon," so does that mean like the end's true form is not, like a giant big the cat inspired asteroid.
Or do they mean a fake moon as in its just not the real moon?
Sonichub the only reason why sonic fans wanna to play the final update is to have a better final boss battle and a new true ending and a new sonic form like this what this whole wait was about💯👍
The “blue one” is obviously Bjg Little Planet from Sonic CD & Sonic 4 Episode II/Mania/Metal. As for The End itself, it stated has been watching over Sonic & co for a long time defeat machines and Gods that were mighty. So what happens in Sonic Superstars? You defeat both powerful giant mechs and a freaking DIMENSIONAL DRAGON that sealed away for its destructive power by another ancient civilization. That also needed Super Sonic & Trip to defeat. This marks the first time in the Classic era that the Sonic cast defeated an eldritch being BEFORE the events of Sonic Adventure onwards sets off the modern era trend of doing so. Since Superstars is set FAR in the past, this means that THIS event is the catalyst going forwards is where it truly begins to keep on eye on Sonic’s exploits.
Well I think the end says “I saw your mind in my prison” so the end analyzes all of this while sonic is running through cyber space
You spoiled the final boss, thanks
Technically, the only reason for why Solaris took three super forms to beat was because he was in three different timelines at the same time. If Super Sonic had that same ability, then Solaris would have been done for.
So, I personally think that The End is the strongest boss in all of Sonic.
the guy from 10:11 is my best friend and it was so jarring to see his account randomly pop up 💀
It's not The End, it's the conclusion.
Whats lame about this is that the franchise once again just feels aimless. The End (what wiped out the ancient civilizations we've been learning little things about since 1998) would have been the perfect choice for an overaching villain. I get the "purple moon dumb" criticism, easy fix, change its form, make it something else, but keep the character/concept of the End alive.
All this information we have about lost alien races is pretty much now wasted. The Ancients, the Gizoids, the Babylonians, the unknown civilizations teased by all the myriad of thousand-year-old ruins we've ran through over the years from S3&K to S4:EP1 to SA to 06 to Unleashed to Lost World and everything in-between? Maybe even some Echidna clans? Wouldn't it have been cool if they tied the End to all that? That it was the End that wiped out all life in the past? A gateway to dive deeper into Light/Dark Gaia and Gaia energy in general, maybe recontextualize it as a failed project to defeat the End, a bioweapon, not to different from Project Shadow on that regard?
The End could have been our Thanos, the villain of all villains, the one that could have hyped up and united the fanbase, all unanimously screaming "IT ALL COMES TO THIS! IT'S ALL COMING TOGETHER, LET'S GO BABY". The End could have been what the Reapers were in Mass Effect, if you know about Mass Effect you know how raw peak that would have been, make the End's sole purpose be wiping out all life in the galaxy with the same tension, horror and efficiency the Reapers did in that franchise.
But no... No, it was all just a purple rock. We could have had it all, the perfect antagonist to one of the greatest legacy franchises of all time, the villain of all villains, the thign we could have looked back to after a decade and "Yeah, that was peak fiction, truly a masterpiece". No. It's just a purple rock. There's nothing more to it, no geeky theories, no nerdy epic stories about to unfold, no promises of the ultimate power fantasy. It was all just a purple rock... THAT'S what sucks, THAT'S why this is a controversy. I get that the fanbase is notoriously toxic and whiney but my God is it totally warranted this time.
I see you what you mean, that does make a lot of sense. For me, the story was so confusing the way it was told, and maybe needed a little more time to flesh it out fully because I swear I didn't even know wtf the end was. The first impression I had with it was was killed everything for me. I think a lot of what we know about the boss I had to discover well after the story so maybe if they made it all more clear throughout what we were dealing with, I would maybe feel more disappointed about not seeing it again.
You know what that does make a lot of sense I didn't really think of it that way. I agree that the potential for the boss was definitely missed, I just think the rushed original ending to the game soured my perception of it, and the boss design didn't help. The way they tell frontiers story needed just like a little more time to cook and to be more clear because I swear on my first playthrough I had no idea wtf the end even was lol.
Even if I don't like the end that much, I do see where your going with your idea of villian of all villians idea. Kinda reminds me of how Kirby pulled that off with Dark matter/Void Termina.
@@jareader3295 Yeah, I think it would have been really cool. Imagine if we got some sort of flashback or texts of lore about the Black Arms (I'm gonna refer to Black Doom's species as the Black Arms since we have no idea what they're actually called, I know the Black Arms technically aren't Black Doom's species, I digress) for instance, showing us that they were once not the belligerent and conquering race we saw them as in Shadow the Hedgehog but something more in line with, idk, how the Qunari were in Dragon Age or the modern Mandalorians in Star Wars, aggressive to be sure but isolated, more interested in upholding their traditions and honor than anything else. What if the End obliterated their homeworld ages ago far away from Earth and Black Doom was amongst the only survivors of it, becoming more savage and primal while in search of a new home to immigrate/conquer before stumbling upon Earth with the Black Comet? Terrorized the planet a bit until he found warnings of the Ancients about the End and got scared, left the planet only to return 2000 years later braver than ever, make a deal with Gerald Robotnik and invade the planet once and for all once his Ultimate Lifeform was ready for action? How cool would that have been? To make the End THAT involved with the lore, retroactively making past villains like Black Doom and the Black Arms way more nuanced and interesting in the process. Again, this is why I'm mad the End essentially leads to nowhere due to it being a one-and-done villain, like what's even the point then.
Personally the dlc final boss wasn't in improvement, just fighting Supreme again.
Perhaps the purple moon being present in Superstars is simply The End's body, or shell. As in, its consciousness was sealed in the Supreme Titan in cyberspace, and its shell was left orbiting the Earth all that time. That may have been what the developers were going for. The flaw with this theory is that it contradicts the statement about The End looking different to each person.
That claim does'nt make sense as 'what the developers were going for'.
They've clearly stated that Classic Sonic is in an alternate dimension in Forces.
They could go back to saying Classic Sonic is in the past as well since they want to unite the lore now, I suppose.
But the point is, The End exists in Superstars as his lore is always linked to the Chaos Emerald no matter the Timeline.
So no, he was'nt eradicated in Classic's timeline unlike Modern's which is why there are some traces of him in the Final Superstars Boss.
Ian Flynn has lied and covered up things before so I dunno..but he seems like up to his usual diversionary tactics just to stir up the community again.
Not the first, won't be the last.
@@mechashadow That plot point in Forces has been addressed as a miscommunication/mistranslation many times. TailsTube says Classic and Modern are just past and future and the same timeline, Generations says Classic and Modern are just past and future and the same timeline, Sonic Adventure has CD flashbacks, Sonic Prime has Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 & Knuckles flashbacks, IDW and Frontiers reference Classic a bunch of times. Classic has always been the same as Modern.
@@KOTSOSMC2002 Sounds more like a retcon but I can accept that, still does'nt change my theory for the most part.
The reason I call it a retcon is because Iizuka has been caught explaining Classic Sonic as a split timeline from Generations for Forces in interviews for the gaming press a couple of times but I honestly prefer this retcon tbh.
@@mechashadow Since Sonic Adventure, the first Modern game ever made, had a direct Sonic CD flashback I'd hardly call it a retcon. If anything the line from Forces is the retcon, which has since been addressed. Aka the retcon has been retconned and we're back on track!
@@KOTSOSMC2002 That's fair. But that's exactly why I'm happy they retconned the retcon cause it was stupid.
I can even get on board with a good retcon but they're hard to find.
I believe fans wanted a sonic unleashed/ 06 style final boss gameplay wise. Controlling both the supreme Titan and Super Sonic switching off.
I don’t mind The End’s appearance since it’s basically an eldritch monster that’s beyond all comprehension.
I mean, I agree with the end being missed potential that could've had a better appearance.
But No, the Blue moon is the regular moon, the purple one is The End. Either an Easter egg, or a reference to it saying 'i saw your mind' so it's not actually there, but we see it. The moon never looks purple in any condition, it can look red but that's about it. I'm sorry Ian.
Honestly i was hoping for a reincarnation of the end but since ian flynn said its gone, its gone. So now its time to speculate and critical think on how the next boss could be even more deadly than the end 😅
Maybe not more deadly than The End, but something probably on Sonic's level and a bit threatening. Or it could just be Eggman with another devious plot
I mean Super Sonic did have to solo Solaris. Everyone had to fight Solaris by themselves. The End could be stronger.
The End: I am almighty. I am Infinite.
Solaris: Wanna see a trick?
*Divide by 0*
Also dark giga: bitch im the one who's meant to destory this planet, go to the next one over
Remember the End can take many forms it’s what the individual see death resemble of.
My thoughts remain more or less the same: I never really saw The End as this game's antagonist. (it felt more like a plot device, similar to Solaris, Dark Gaia, Time Eater and Chaos)
For me, the actual antagonist is Sage (or rather, Team Eggman but he was relegated to flashback duty until the last island) because she was the one who spent the entire game having backs and forths with the protagonists. Also yes one could argue that we never really saw her as a threat, but when was the last time we saw Eggman as the main threat of any given game?
Long story short, I hope The End stays dead (and sealed off in the Classic Timelines) but bring back Sage instead of orbot and cubot cause the "sassy lost child" was a much needed upgrade, it's up there with Metal Sonic, Gamma, Omega and the SA2 Egg Walker.
Why not Sage, Orbot and Cubot?
Also, they did hype up The End so much with all the dialogue as well. Regardless of what Ian Flynn said, there was pieces in the original story that really hinted at The End returning.
I personally don't care if it returns or not, but can't deny that it's looking like another retcon and I don't blame people for being mad about that.
I can agree that the fanbase gets too toxic at times, but given some of the stuff that was literally in the game, you also can't blame the people that thought The End would return.
Idk I’ve seen people say that Sonic Superstars is like a flashback almost, like, the end is there because “I saw your mind while you ran through my prison” the end saw all of Sonic’s adventures. Idk that’s my fav take on it being there anyway
I think whether or not The End is the strongest or not kinda just boils down to how strong Super Sonic 2 is, and whether or not it's as strong as 3 Super forms, if not stronger
Cause, unless I'm mistaken, Solaris didn't have any means to actually HURT Super Sonic the same way The End did
Obviously there's no real way to determine that at this point, but it's definitely something to consider
Phase 2 Solaris was capable of knocking away rings from all 3 of them.
@@nullandvoid7524 Ah, so it does
Genuine mistake on my part
So at the very least, they'd be comparable
@@nullandvoid7524
The End can straight up force Super Sonic 2 out of his Super form, and make him lose max rings with every hit
Solaris was never as powerful as the Super trio, they only had to fight it 3 times at the same time to win, which is why all 3 of them fought.
Afaik, they each pretty much solo'd their own version of Solaris.
Finally, if Base Sonic in Generations surpasses Super Sonic in Adventure, I think it's safe to say that SS2 in Frontiers surpasses 3 Supers in '06.
I feel like fans are always mad I don't think there ever happy sadly
Yeah, the downside of liking Sonic is that you're always lumped together with one of the worst toxic communities ever.
Dang, the thought of Shadow being sealed in the classic era hits different
Sooo many power houses are sealed during this time. It’s kinda crazy
I kinda love how the end looks cos it has 2 of my 3 favourite colours. Aka galactic colours. I thought fighting the end itself like it was just one final titan and not that trash shooter mini game I would be happier, but I can still immensely appreciate the new final boss.
Sonic fans complain too much guys already made a third update to the other story and they said the third update is Canon
Before Update 3, when THE END was just a moon, whenever I heard Sage say "Not even Super Sonic will be able to stop it", I always replied in my Sonic Voice;
"Haha! A moon can stop me?
Shut up! I'm gonna pee on it now!"
I feel like if the End is supposed to represent Sonic’s view if death itself, then it should be look like Dark Gaia
The end was definitely missed potential but i can get behind the idea that it was boasting about being immortal. Any entity that can easily wipe civilizations and planets can definitely let the idea of immortality get to its head.
I also agree that the end is the 2nd strongest foe in the sonic Franchise because Solaris literally had to be fought by 3 different hedgehogs, at the same time, in 3 different dimensional plains. It's very existence was wiping out all of reality kind of like the time eater but on a much more destructive scale. Solaris was creating insta kill black holes all throughout the world. The end wasn't doing that, it was basically just one shot lazering planets. Very impressive and powerful but the end wasn't a multi-dimensional being to our knowledge. Super Sonic 2 is most likely stronger then 3 super form hedgehogs but he was fighting it solo until he got the gun for eggman.
The end being able to knock Sonic out of Super sonic 2 is highly impressive but Solaris can do damage to Super form hedgehogs as well if they get hit or in Sonics case, attacks without charging up all the way.
One more thing to note: in the solaris fight, each hedgehog has time to sub out to get rings. When fighting the end Sonic doesn't have time or anyone to sub out with so he can't regain his rings.
I like the theory that the “end” in sonic superstars is just the empty husk like if you take away the code of a robot the actual shell of the robot isn’t gone but the personality is gone
People were expecting The End to come back? Every villain Super Sonic defeated never came back, has been like this since SA1. Fans just don't want to admit ST went with a moon design because it was easier to model and animate. Ans because Frontiers' story is inspired by an old japanese novel about the moon or something, as revealed by Kishimoto in one interview.
Also, the English script should never been taken as the canon story. Ian Flynn just adapted the dialogue in the western version, the official story is the japanese version written by Kishimoto himself, which has a different interpretation for The End.
What makes me smile is that The End *knows* about Solaris despite the fact Sonic 06 didn't happen and that Solaris itself is more powerful than The End.
Since the end “varies in appearance from person to person” and apparently the sonic cast that was included sees a purple moon as death itself, then why didn’t they have some form of reaction when they see their form (i want to say her so badly bc they were a female in the original story but was changed to sound a bit more masculine in the final horizon’s story) it would have been cool if sonic had like a small panic when he saw them for the first time, also it pains me that such a cool color pallete (I actually like the moons design, especially when it zooms in) was crafted into such a lame boss. (Still gave me trouble since i somehow struggled for like an hour on the original fight)
You can hear both a male and a female performance in the End's voice as soon as it drops the act of pretending to guide Sonic around. I don't think it was ever meant to be of any gender.
@@KOTSOSMC2002 ok
Sometimes, I think it was only a moon because Sonic really doesn't fear much. He even gets over his fear of water at times. Because of that, The End's form to Sonic is nothing that could scare him so it's just a moon. Believe it or not, Sonic's quite the fearless individual
I have a theory. When Classic Sonic disappeared in Forces, he was taken to Superstars in the same timeline and both are co-existing in different places. Seeing from the ruins of the death egg robots, Frontiers didn't happen too long after Forces, so both could happen at the same time. Though, that's just a theory. A GAME THEORY! Thanks for reading.
Classic is then basically watching Modern fight The End in space.
Superstars is between mania and SA1
3:07 Technically anytime he interacts with the cyber cages. Every time he breaks open the cages, you see the digital energy go into Sonic and his friends acknowledge it. Especially seeing as Cyberspace is optional
I mean yeah the end coming back would undermine the ending but the end itself was undermined day one. Complete miss.
A head canon i heard about was that sonic sees the end as a moon since in a way thats how shadow died or almost did to sonic the ark which looked similar to a moon is the one thing that nearly brought a freind to death hence why sonics incarnation of death is a moon
One thing I’d say is that The End and Supreme End in Final Horizon are similar in a sense to something from IDW Transformers: D-Void and Deceptigod.
Deceptigod was a construct of D-Void made out of an armada of dead decepticons that was acting as it’s avatar in the living universe, while D-Void was a being that was comprised of multiple dead universes. Should D-Void absorb the living universe, it would be an unstoppable threat to the entire multiverse, with Megatron and Optimus Prime being the last bastions to stop it.
This is similar to what The End does to the defeated Supreme in Final Horizon.
“This shell was once my prison. Now, it shall be the avatar of my return. All shall perish. All shall return to order. To oblivion.”
The End was still not anywhere close to the full power it could have been thanks to being sealed for millennia. But even with that, it was still enough of a threat that it took Super Sonic channeling the combined might of The Ancients to destroy it before it could reach full power.
That’s just my take on it.
I think the problem with the message of the end was that it was too soon. Like imagine if this ending came after a mini arc of levels or games where we see multiple civilizations affected by the end for it to culminate on the starfall islands. I get where Ian Flynn was coming from the and the themes are fantastic but the themes and ideas kinda undermine the gravity of the end's presence. I think both ideas of end returning and end dying for good are great and can work each in their own ways but end dying for good just wasn't handled too well
8:58 Ik it's kinda out of the topic but man I can't get over by the fact of Infinite being the strongest enemy Sonic has ever faced considering how he was beaten even without going Super Sonic while Dark Gaia required Super. Or is Dark Gaia not considered a villain since it's destruction itself?
Who said Infinite was the strongest enemy? He's clearly *too weak* for consideration 💀
The end is hella powerful
The End is literally if Sega copied Hal Laboratory's homework on making cosmic horror esc final bosses but only the part about them being spheres.
So Sonic sees a moon as death incarnate 😂😂😂😂
Bro has some deep-seated trauma after Adventure 2
Sonic needs therapy
I think Frontiers leaves far more questions about the canon than answers. Answers that we likely won't get in future games.
Dark Gaia and Light Gaia are literally in a cycle of rebirth and have existed since the beginning of time, they arent even dead at the end of Unleashed, just resting in the planet as they were supposed to so for The End to say Dark Gaia is finite, it is honestly needed to be retconned and the whole creation was all talk, they never showed it being so mighty.
I wanted to fight The End directly and not just a powered up Supreme
How could people think that sonic villains returning is bad? Fang returned in superstars. I see no problem in sonic villains making a return
9:05
true but each super hedgehog beat solaris across one of each timeframe, meaning each super hedgehog is more powerful than Solaris, Solaris just cant be destroyed completely by overpowering it
Sega and Sonic Team overdid themselves this time.
To end this all for yall...
The moon is just william afton in fnaf 2738 and he just wanted to kill ancients cuz he thought them kids💀💀💀💀
I actually liked THE END, it’s memorable… I agree, that it could have been more “huge” but it was alright, plenty of other bosses that are forgettable.
I was thinking that the purple moon wasn't THE END but it's prison. The Ancients sealed it away in two prison the moon then Cyber Space. After beating the moon it would crack open revealing the end with a familiar form and name Solaris.
I’m glad, The End is utterly unworthy to return, and I’ll be glad if we never see it again. Also, bosses boasting about their strength is not unheard of in Sonic
I like to think both endings are cannon due to the fact that they have the same results as sage comes back in the original ending and stays alive in the new ending.
Since the Solaris timeline got deleted, as far as Sonic knows, The End was his toughest enemy.
I wonder what would happen if it was me and Rex in this story
OK, hear me out here, is it possible that purple rock from superstars is just a Little Planet?
That’s gonna be awesome
So everyone is mad that “the end” got blown up. That thing was just gloating before it got blown up.
The main villain in this series is Eggman and im ok with that. Eggman will find or create a much more deadlier entity, which is what we have always had in the series.
Personally, despite that game being thrash to play the best villain in the series (in my opinion) was Mephilies and the most missed potential villain is Infinite. The end from what I’ve seen in UA-cam and the little amount of time of played through frontiers is just average.
I was literally arguing this before. People were like "Bro, the end said its the most powerful....it is....the it said it in the game!" And I was like "Yes, and I'm a 6'5" millionare with a bugatti, its real becase I said it right????" I think the end, and always have thought the end was over exaggerating its self. I'm not aaying it's "Weak" by any means, but def. Think its weaker than it says it is its self. I also think, that this scales back some of the feats / powerscaling that fans interjected about super sonic / the titans / the end, and thats part of why the discourse exists. Personally, I dont care much for the end, I think it's a stupid boss, and even if it looked cooler, it taked too much crap. Dark Gaia is my fav lmao.....
Dark Gaia was the goat
You're talking like you haven't seen Update 3.
@@ИльфатГалимов-э6ф played it. Still, my opinion is the same. The update 3 boss was only slighty better, but still. Instead of fighing sonic in its own form/ with its own power, it hijacks a titan? Kinda lame imo.
@@joegomez5463someone gets it
Hope we just move on to a new n better villain or get more Eggman n Sage father n daughter evil relationship. I like concept of The End being a symbol of death, but I felt that just an excuse to hide the fact that they couldn't get creative with The End design n just come up with evil floating rock. Actually now that I think about, jesus now im extra disappointed with Update 3 ending now. Since Sonic's friends n Eggman have join the party to fight The End, we could have see difference versions of The End or what the characters say when they see The End since the devs said "We haven't seen The End tRuE fOrM". It would have been more hype if we played as Cyber Sonic n we get to fight The End's TRUUUE FORM. Hope they bring back the concept of characters seeing their version of what death looks like for a new villain and be creative with it. Like lets see what Sonic, Tails, Knuxs, Amy, etc sees their version of what death and get a hype moment for each of the characters facing death itself tho.
The only thing in the whole of Sonic Frontier that I even care about to this level... Is Sage a permanent member of the Eggman Empire cause I love that father/daughter dynamic
I just interpreted The End as an embodiment of a force of nature (death, entropy, oblivion, etc.). The whole inevitable and oblivion and that The End comes for you all. Even destroying the physical form of The End that we see as a purple moon...those things will still come, so The End's not entirely a fraud. Sonic just stopped that from happening today and at the hands of The End, but it will inevitably happen to everyone and everything eventually.
Classic Twitter. Yeah, The End didn't seem all that at first but I think it really worked out in the Update. Sometimes, I question some of the other people who are "fans" of Sonic. They tend to just find a way to shit on EVERYTHING they try to put out. All Ian said was that it was dead and everyone lost it. But when Solaris died or when Dark Gaia wasn't said to return until Sonic basically is long dead, nobody was mad and just constantly asks for the same bosses back. At least two people here made his point (10:35). They don't need to come back, that's why we even have The End because they just try to come out with newer things instead of recycling villains (almost like in Sonic Forces, which didn't work). If nobody has paid attention, they're improving from that. Is that NOT what everyone wanted?
Sometimes people just don't know what they truly want from this series. If they want it to fall, they should just say so at this point. Sorry for the rant and have a good day everyone
7:17
i love how most sonic fans don't even know what is ikaruga
The coolest moon in the Sonic franchise is the moon from Hang Castle (which may or may not be alive).
I don't know, I kinda liked the End as a malevolent planetoid. It adds a cosmic vibe to it and its unique.
It's literally Azathoth/Nibiru/Planet X. Chaos incarnate, the blind idiot god. Can't observe it's true form directly, otherwise you'll go mad. Feels like people either don't get that or dont know what those concepts/characters are
I can never be happy with this fanbase. As soon as I start feeling good about it, they come in and have another argument about something that's apparently a big deal NOW, but wasn't as much on release. The amount of arguments is honestly making my brain hurt and it's just tiresome to me. I know it's Twitter and they do stuff like this all the time, but that doesn't make anything better, since there's still a big problem. This is why I never plan on getting Twitter, X, whatever you want to call it.
Same here. I really question this fanbase sometimes because it's just a lot of bickering about things that should already make sense. In this case, The End is clearly dead now. It's not coming back. It could be in Superstars as a frozen body, but they're just theories and it could only be an Easter Egg
@@tailsfan10 I always thought it was just a Frontiers nod and nothing else. Although, I do think fair discussions have their place. Some examples are ones that are still affecting the Sonic series such as the whole timeline placement of my games, and also just your causal and civil debates about games, but when people start insulting each other and calling that an argument, then it's no longer an argument. In my opinion, this should have been addressed on release because it would have been a lot more relevant then. Would it be cool to see The End again? Sure. Do we need to see it again? No, if past villains have been given the same treatment. Sure, it'd be new, but people don't like the "fake moon" design, so I don't know what else they could do. I do think people's thoughts are valid, but count me out of this one...
The OG bullet hell fight against The End is still the best boss in the entire game. Man, if Kirby fans were like Sonic fans, they would riot about half of the true final bosses in the whole franchise. Lol.
The only underwhelming part of the end, besides the design, was the Galactica styledboss fight
The shooting mini game boss was such a slap in the face to the build up of the game imo lol. Update 3 fixes that but still that first impression was rough
My theory about sonic superstars timeline placement is that it does take place in the past... thats it because my other theory is that generations did split the timeline be due to the metal sonic boss fight we know that classic sonic has lived throught the events of CD at least. So all those events remain unchanged but since sonic saw his future he decited to do events differently but understands that he can't do anything to drastic. Not to mention that the classic sonic in forces has been altered to be sonic from the past again.
Heres what I think about all of this and its pretty simple! This is just the sorta thing that happens within the Sonic community when one thing in Sonic media is a bit overanalyzed and is thought about way too deep! At this point it doesnt even matte wether or not "The End" is still potentially alive or not! It can take whatever form it wants and as long as it causes no physical harm to any of us that's always a W in my book! Let's all just calm down and wait for the next mainline Sonic game to be revealed!
My headcanon was that the end was gonna comeback multiple times (each one with a different appearance) and that it was destroyed with a single hit by Cyber Sonic was set up by the end to return again in the future
I'm not mad that the End won't come back, but I felt that it was underwhelming
PS: Can I over analyze what Ian said?
He's talking about the blue moon for 2 reasons
1 He's making fun of us by saying that we complain about the smalles details (which is kinda true ngl)
2 It's actually the ancients' higher power (the Zap symbol)
because it's blue, just like everything that's ancient-like
If the purple moon in superstars is the end I don't see how the mobians thought a purple moon was normal and not strange at all