Most people know how to run, but very few people are able to run a marathon. Writing is the same. Most people can write, but very few people are able to write a cohesive and captivating story with the correct pacing, character development, conflict, and plot. It takes years of training.
I had an idea over 10 years ago, well before I started writing screenplays. I turned it into a novella, which wasn't great, but I was able to steal a chapter of it and create a feature length script. I still feel that the "engine" of the story is good, but I've approached it more than a dozen times from different angles. I'm still not sure of an exact storyline, but I'm getting close.
"Amateurs play, professionals plan." It's a piece of advice I was given a few years ago that I use to constantly to remind myself to be patient and create a great outline.
the more i work on my writing, the more i'm grateful for the choices and non-choices in my life. i finally have a voice of my own that has been corroded and rebuilt time and time again. i'm glad i didn’t get here the post-modern, "correct" way -- through school and specialised education. there's absolutely a life to live in a classroom with the same few people day in and day out but i don't believe anymore that it's a life i want. i much prefer being out in the world, where it can shape and bruise and heal me
So fantastically true. This is a lesson you especially learn when writing a series. From a publishing perspective, I only released the first book of my series after I had finished writing the fifth. It is amazing how a concept or idea evolves after 500 000+ words, and by doing it this way I could go back and redraft the earlier books based on my experience. So if you want to know how an idea might turn into an engaging story: write it, then rewrite it, then rewrite it again.
I'm working in a comic books saga. Its kinda interesting how my characters act on their own and have their own personalities regardless of how i wanted them to act. Sometimes it feels like i'm playing a game where i only get to choose some specific dialogs and actions.
Absolutely true… although I recommend new writers don’t get bogged down in the planning or you’ll never write anything - write badly and you will learn YOUR process and have the power to everything BEFORE the writing begins efficiently and in your own way. Don’t stress too much about planning in the beginning. Your first few scripts won’t be good anyway… Also don’t be precious about your ideas by your fourth script you will Likely realize your amazing first idea, regardless of execution, was bad.
Not the hardest to learn, but the hardest lesson I had to accept was my writing sucked. I've been published with short stories and poetry, and my beta readers gave me high marks for the novel I never submitted. I decided to write a couole of scripts I had ideas for. I did my first script (all 147 pages of it) and gave it to an indie producer I met while we were having lunch. He read the first two pages, shut the folder, and said I wasn't ready. I asked what the problem wasvand he said he was falling asleep after the first paragraph and until I ciuld write, I needed to nit bother. I fiund Film Courage (and others) a few days later. I'm still not ready (6 scripts in), but I've gotten better and am still working hard
On the contrary, I'd like to suggest that not every writer feels obligated to include a message that they want to lecture the audience with. Not every story needs to be socially layered, DEEP, and for lack of a better term, propaganda. I feel confident when I say that I don't mind some social commentary in a film every now and then. Hell, even Kids (1995) was an entire film dedicated to STIs and the AIDs epidemic. But my point here is that not EVERY film that came out in 1995 was a lecture or social commentary. Hell, Goldeneye came out that year. A bond film about a revenge-seeking former 00-agent and his quest to punish MI-6 and James Bond. Imagine if that movie applied social commentary and also lectured us about AIDs... Not all stories or films need to be deep. Some of us would like to just have fun and engage with a group of characters and their journey through 90-100 pages of script.
I always liked what the librettist Tim Rice has to say. "The message is never the story. The story is nearly always the message." I know some will dismiss it as a tautology, but I think it's a great bit of advice if you reflect on it.
This is the best comment on this comment section as far as I can see it. I really wish some days that more writers like you could be in charge of script writing for Hollywood movies... P.s lecturing people with social commentary is not that deep usually, especially if you look at just how bad the whole humanities studies peer review process is... I mean some of these people actually support oppressive regimes because they have no idea how to research and fall for very simple logical fallacies...
My opinion is that movies and tv are not novels. They don't have to be written with colorful language. You don't have to be a brilliant wordsmith to write screenplays. In a screen play it's perfectly fine to simply write, "John opens the door." In a book, that just won't do. In a book it would be more like, "John's hand nervously grabs the door knob. He turns it slowly. The old wooden door creaks open and a draft escapes the room like a mummy's tomb being open for the first time." A screenplay is like a map or blueprint of a movie or show you want to make. It is instructional. A novel is elaborate and descriptive.
Two questions from new writer: 1. How do producers typically react to a “story by” pitch for TV? Asking because I don’t want a writing job, just want to sell pilot and show bible . 2. Anybody use ISA website? Comments?
From the video description: Andrew Zinnes is Senior Teaching Fellow at the University of Portsmouth, UK. He has worked in development at Paramount Pictures and at USA Networks. He left to become a script analyst, and worked for Morgan Creek Productions, Artisan and several script analyst companies. Using his documentary filmmaking experience, Andrew was the perfect co-author for The Documentary Film Makers Handbook. He has taught documentary at the NY Film Academy and has lectured on filmmaking at schools and colleges around the US. He is a founding partner of the film company Crazee Pictures.
Most people know how to run, but very few people are able to run a marathon. Writing is the same. Most people can write, but very few people are able to write a cohesive and captivating story with the correct pacing, character development, conflict, and plot. It takes years of training.
Absolute truth. My idea has changed a ton from it's orignal, but you have to start somewhere and the connections in your idea/story are hard!
had an idea in 2021 and been rewriting it over and over ever since. it might be around 2027 or later when i decide it's finished. gotta keep going!
I had an idea over 10 years ago, well before I started writing screenplays. I turned it into a novella, which wasn't great, but I was able to steal a chapter of it and create a feature length script. I still feel that the "engine" of the story is good, but I've approached it more than a dozen times from different angles. I'm still not sure of an exact storyline, but I'm getting close.
After writing and re writing short-film scripts, i realized that i was writing short novels instead of short films.
"Amateurs play, professionals plan." It's a piece of advice I was given a few years ago that I use to constantly to remind myself to be patient and create a great outline.
the more i work on my writing, the more i'm grateful for the choices and non-choices in my life. i finally have a voice of my own that has been corroded and rebuilt time and time again. i'm glad i didn’t get here the post-modern, "correct" way -- through school and specialised education. there's absolutely a life to live in a classroom with the same few people day in and day out but i don't believe anymore that it's a life i want. i much prefer being out in the world, where it can shape and bruise and heal me
So fantastically true. This is a lesson you especially learn when writing a series. From a publishing perspective, I only released the first book of my series after I had finished writing the fifth. It is amazing how a concept or idea evolves after 500 000+ words, and by doing it this way I could go back and redraft the earlier books based on my experience. So if you want to know how an idea might turn into an engaging story: write it, then rewrite it, then rewrite it again.
I'm working in a comic books saga. Its kinda interesting how my characters act on their own and have their own personalities regardless of how i wanted them to act. Sometimes it feels like i'm playing a game where i only get to choose some specific dialogs and actions.
Right from the opening statement a valuable Gem only 10 seconds in! Broke my quickest thumbs up record! Classsss is nooooow in session.
Record alert!
Absolutely true… although I recommend new writers don’t get bogged down in the planning or you’ll never write anything - write badly and you will learn YOUR process and have the power to everything BEFORE the writing begins efficiently and in your own way.
Don’t stress too much about planning in the beginning. Your first few scripts won’t be good anyway…
Also don’t be precious about your ideas by your fourth script you will
Likely realize your amazing first idea, regardless of execution, was bad.
Sage advice in time of algorithms.
What is the hardest writing lesson you have had to learn?
I learned how fragile ideas really are... and how difficult it is to respond to constructive criticism in general.
Not the hardest to learn, but the hardest lesson I had to accept was my writing sucked. I've been published with short stories and poetry, and my beta readers gave me high marks for the novel I never submitted.
I decided to write a couole of scripts I had ideas for. I did my first script (all 147 pages of it) and gave it to an indie producer I met while we were having lunch. He read the first two pages, shut the folder, and said I wasn't ready. I asked what the problem wasvand he said he was falling asleep after the first paragraph and until I ciuld write, I needed to nit bother.
I fiund Film Courage (and others) a few days later.
I'm still not ready (6 scripts in), but I've gotten better and am still working hard
And after all of that, the produceres destroy your work and call it thier own.
On the contrary, I'd like to suggest that not every writer feels obligated to include a message that they want to lecture the audience with.
Not every story needs to be socially layered, DEEP, and for lack of a better term, propaganda.
I feel confident when I say that I don't mind some social commentary in a film every now and then. Hell, even Kids (1995) was an entire film dedicated to STIs and the AIDs epidemic. But my point here is that not EVERY film that came out in 1995 was a lecture or social commentary. Hell, Goldeneye came out that year. A bond film about a revenge-seeking former 00-agent and his quest to punish MI-6 and James Bond.
Imagine if that movie applied social commentary and also lectured us about AIDs...
Not all stories or films need to be deep. Some of us would like to just have fun and engage with a group of characters and their journey through 90-100 pages of script.
@@seanpurdy8230 a Gem in the comments too!
Liberating points. I appreciate much.
I always liked what the librettist Tim Rice has to say. "The message is never the story. The story is nearly always the message."
I know some will dismiss it as a tautology, but I think it's a great bit of advice if you reflect on it.
This is the best comment on this comment section as far as I can see it.
I really wish some days that more writers like you could be in charge of script writing for Hollywood movies... P.s lecturing people with social commentary is not that deep usually, especially if you look at just how bad the whole humanities studies peer review process is... I mean some of these people actually support oppressive regimes because they have no idea how to research and fall for very simple logical fallacies...
It's a lot of ...Problem solving.
My opinion is that movies and tv are not novels. They don't have to be written with colorful language. You don't have to be a brilliant wordsmith to write screenplays. In a screen play it's perfectly fine to simply write, "John opens the door." In a book, that just won't do. In a book it would be more like, "John's hand nervously grabs the door knob. He turns it slowly. The old wooden door creaks open and a draft escapes the room like a mummy's tomb being open for the first time."
A screenplay is like a map or blueprint of a movie or show you want to make. It is instructional.
A novel is elaborate and descriptive.
You’re good
Two questions from new writer:
1. How do producers typically react to a “story by” pitch for TV? Asking because I don’t want a writing job, just want to sell pilot and show bible .
2. Anybody use ISA website? Comments?
Who is Andrew Zinnes?
More on Andrew in the information section.
💡
Everytime art gets political, it means so much less to me. I like emotional writing.
Who the hell is this guy?
From the video description:
Andrew Zinnes is Senior Teaching Fellow at the University of Portsmouth, UK. He has worked in development at Paramount Pictures and at USA Networks. He left to become a script analyst, and worked for Morgan Creek Productions, Artisan and several script analyst companies. Using his documentary filmmaking experience, Andrew was the perfect co-author for The Documentary Film Makers Handbook. He has taught documentary at the NY Film Academy and has lectured on filmmaking at schools and colleges around the US. He is a founding partner of the film company Crazee Pictures.