All of us have seen turning operations & long turning cuts is like watching paint dry. The results of your videos are truly what we need. to see & hear. In all of this your opinion and advice is what I want. A great channel and your topics are what we need to see & learn from.
I'm unsure if this was purely for comparison sake, but I noticed that you have a very slow RPM/SFM for the carbide tool and that material. 12L14 cuts super easy, if you still run this material slow I recommend trying 150 SFM and work your way up/down until you get the best results. Having fast but appropriate speeds for your cutting conditions can save a lot of time. Heck, with that coolant you can probably do fine at 250 SFM. I apologize if this was intended to happen for the video or if you've already figured it out by now, I'm only trying to help out because these cuts are going about as fast as HSS tooling, you can safely run the RPM's 3x faster (of course depending on the lathe and other cutting conditions).
To be fair in comparisons with the round insert you should be using 432 inserts which are less sharp than the very pointed 431 inserts, i.e. CNMG 432 etc.
Thank you so much for the kind words. I will do my best to provide you guys with accurate useful information. I will definitely include the cost on upcoming videos. Again I really appreciate you watching and commenting. Keep me motivated.
The diameter affects the SFM, therefore as the piece gets smaller, the SFM changes, and quality will suffer a bit. 😮A better example would be to cut a smaller section with each tool, at the same diameter. This would make the feeds and speeds more accurate for the surface meter per second.
I enjoyed the video, I’m still learning and was so if you could explain a reason for the difference. I hear you touch on the larger radius but felt there was more there. Thank you
hello Ethan, thank you for taking the time to comment. I can certainly help you out to the best of my ability. are you looking to find out more about why the nose radius affects the finish? let me know and I'll see what I can do. thank you!
When turning features on a lathe, you are essentially just cutting a fine thread. The finer the thread, the better the finish. The large radius spreads out the thread that is being cut and makes it harder to see. This also means that if you use a tool with almost no radius, you will see the thread easier. The larger radius has more tool pressure so this trick doesn't work that well for Chinese mini lathes and can cause a ton of chatter.
Hello Howard. The tool holder is SRDCN1616H10 available on eBay Amazon etc. The round inserts are very strong and work well for removing weld build up etc. Thank you for the comment!
@@smallgaragemachineshop2715I see these are one sided inserts with a screw hold. Mine are two sided which need a pin & clamp. Im having trouble finding these holders but thanks anyway 👍
Ok let me help you…all carbide inserts have a min/max depth of cut in order to be effective i.e….chip control, proper wear. The chip break is determined by the land and depth of cut. You’re not utilizing your inserts properly in this video.
@@chainring_tattooNo need to get stressed about it, just use WNMG for roughing, and VBMT or DCGT for finishing, and use the appropriate speeds and feeds guide values are given by the manufacturer, and you will develop a feel for it. But beware, if you have a small lathe with low power, you probably can't use roughing tools anyway since the cutting load gets too high with those. Most of those people use sharp inserts or use aluminium inserts for steel, they don't last long but for small and mini lathes it's the only option.
problem is with your use of carbide insert - carbide inserts are made for high cutting speeds, you use RPM as if you were using HSS tools, for such small diameter you should use 2000 RPM and above or you are just destroying the inserts WNMG are medium roughing with 6 edges (D.O.C usually up to 4mm) but are not as stable in holder as mid-heavy roughing CNMG with only 4 edges (D.O.C usually up to 5.5mm) TNMG are good for tight internal turning, they also have 6 edges but are weaker than WNMG, radius inserts are good for medium-light roughing and finishing but generate huge amount of radial force so must use with caution personally i use DCMT or VCMT for finishing small/medium parts and DNMG for finishing bigger parts (ex. 120kg shafts), negative inserts are primarily for roughing (the second letter in insert name ex. xNxx) - chip breaking on these inserts will probably work with atleast 0.8-1.5DOC, 0.15-0.22mm/rev feed and 250-350m/min, the way you use them on the video is just destroying them
Good information! In the shop on the manual lathe I mostly use WNMG for roughing, and VBMT like the Sandvik 1125 or the Tungaloy 6130 with 0.4 mm radius for finishing, for small diameters, bad materials and short journals on flanges or 0.2 radius work I use the DCGT ic520 from Iskar. There is also the VCGT ic520 but it doesn't last very long, so I only use them for chamfers.
@@Universal_Craftsman I believe Sandvik 1125 are the dark pink-purple-bronze ones primarily for stainless? yes, inserts for stainless usually don't work good on steel and vice versa sadly I work on CNC lathe and I'm used on different approach - on such small diameters I leave it rotate up to 3-4k and roughing inserts usually work 25-35 in-cut minutes, finishing always last atleast whole shift, on manual lathe I work once a year at most and I'm always afraid to run RPM above 1000 revs but principle is the same, just hit the revs if you believe the part won't fly away
@@Universal_Craftsman should be but you need strong rigid machine to fully use their potential, when I work on 26kw turret lathe and rough 1.4404/316L stainless with walter WNMG080412 WSM20S RM5, 3.5mm DOC, 0.35mm/rev, 140m/min, I'm over 90% spindle power and it's dangerous because if the engine runs out of torque, the insert shatters, not mentioning force the turret must withstand and nice sounds it produces - SNMG inserts are used in 75° and 45° holders so you can add even more feed thanks to chip thinning - so you need strong machine to use the inserts in its intended limits and also the tool angle produces a lot of radial forces so you need big part that doesn't bend and very rigid machine that won't fall apart after few seconds of machining
It doesnt look like your running your lathe fast enough for carbide and yout depth of cut is too shallow also as theres a minimum depth of cut with insert tooling
All of us have seen turning operations & long turning cuts is like watching paint dry. The results of your videos are truly what we need. to see & hear. In all of this your opinion and advice is what I want. A great channel and your topics are what we need to see & learn from.
The best insert depends entirely on what is being asked of them
I'm unsure if this was purely for comparison sake, but I noticed that you have a very slow RPM/SFM for the carbide tool and that material. 12L14 cuts super easy, if you still run this material slow I recommend trying 150 SFM and work your way up/down until you get the best results. Having fast but appropriate speeds for your cutting conditions can save a lot of time. Heck, with that coolant you can probably do fine at 250 SFM.
I apologize if this was intended to happen for the video or if you've already figured it out by now, I'm only trying to help out because these cuts are going about as fast as HSS tooling, you can safely run the RPM's 3x faster (of course depending on the lathe and other cutting conditions).
Awesome thanks, I never thought about using a round cutting tool to cut straight…
To be fair in comparisons with the round insert you should be using 432 inserts which are less sharp than the very pointed 431 inserts, i.e. CNMG 432 etc.
The finish on the round insert was amazing. Would appreciate a cost vs finish comparison. We value your opinion.
Thank you so much for the kind words. I will do my best to provide you guys with accurate useful information. I will definitely include the cost on upcoming videos. Again I really appreciate you watching and commenting. Keep me motivated.
I´m using hand ground HSS with big ass radius to calibrate the diameter of PVC pipes.... can´t beat the big radius for finish if it´s possible
The diameter affects the SFM, therefore as the piece gets smaller, the SFM changes, and quality will suffer a bit. 😮A better example would be to cut a smaller section with each tool, at the same diameter. This would make the feeds and speeds more accurate for the surface meter per second.
Interesting no frills comparison
Thanks Graham! I appreciate the comment. So glad you enjoyed it!
I enjoyed the video, I’m still learning and was so if you could explain a reason for the difference. I hear you touch on the larger radius but felt there was more there. Thank you
hello Ethan, thank you for taking the time to comment. I can certainly help you out to the best of my ability. are you looking to find out more about why the nose radius affects the finish? let me know and I'll see what I can do. thank you!
When turning features on a lathe, you are essentially just cutting a fine thread. The finer the thread, the better the finish. The large radius spreads out the thread that is being cut and makes it harder to see. This also means that if you use a tool with almost no radius, you will see the thread easier. The larger radius has more tool pressure so this trick doesn't work that well for Chinese mini lathes and can cause a ton of chatter.
What holder did you use for the round insert?
Thanks for the video!
Hello Howard. The tool holder is SRDCN1616H10 available on eBay Amazon etc. The round inserts are very strong and work well for removing weld build up etc. Thank you for the comment!
@@smallgaragemachineshop2715I see these are one sided inserts with a screw hold. Mine are two sided which need a pin & clamp. Im having trouble finding these holders but thanks anyway 👍
Knux is best. It"s have very light cutting forces and very good surface finish.
Thanks I will have to check those out!
Ok let me help you…all carbide inserts have a min/max depth of cut in order to be effective i.e….chip control, proper wear. The chip break is determined by the land and depth of cut. You’re not utilizing your inserts properly in this video.
I'm a home hobbyist and new to this. Where would one find such information?
@@chainring_tattoo What specifically are you looking for?
@@chainring_tattooNo need to get stressed about it, just use WNMG for roughing, and VBMT or DCGT for finishing, and use the appropriate speeds and feeds guide values are given by the manufacturer, and you will develop a feel for it. But beware, if you have a small lathe with low power, you probably can't use roughing tools anyway since the cutting load gets too high with those. Most of those people use sharp inserts or use aluminium inserts for steel, they don't last long but for small and mini lathes it's the only option.
when do you turn your oiler on. behind the chuck? i turn my oiler on whenever my chuck is spinning.
Watch This Old Tony's Video "A Brief Chat about Carbide Tooling"
problem is with your use of carbide insert - carbide inserts are made for high cutting speeds, you use RPM as if you were using HSS tools, for such small diameter you should use 2000 RPM and above or you are just destroying the inserts
WNMG are medium roughing with 6 edges (D.O.C usually up to 4mm) but are not as stable in holder as mid-heavy roughing CNMG with only 4 edges (D.O.C usually up to 5.5mm)
TNMG are good for tight internal turning, they also have 6 edges but are weaker than WNMG, radius inserts are good for medium-light roughing and finishing but generate huge amount of radial force so must use with caution
personally i use DCMT or VCMT for finishing small/medium parts and DNMG for finishing bigger parts (ex. 120kg shafts), negative inserts are primarily for roughing (the second letter in insert name ex. xNxx) - chip breaking on these inserts will probably work with atleast 0.8-1.5DOC, 0.15-0.22mm/rev feed and 250-350m/min, the way you use them on the video is just destroying them
Good information! In the shop on the manual lathe I mostly use WNMG for roughing, and VBMT like the Sandvik 1125 or the Tungaloy 6130 with 0.4 mm radius for finishing, for small diameters, bad materials and short journals on flanges or 0.2 radius work I use the DCGT ic520 from Iskar. There is also the VCGT ic520 but it doesn't last very long, so I only use them for chamfers.
What would be the insert for heavy roughing? SNMG?
@@Universal_Craftsman I believe Sandvik 1125 are the dark pink-purple-bronze ones primarily for stainless? yes, inserts for stainless usually don't work good on steel and vice versa
sadly I work on CNC lathe and I'm used on different approach - on such small diameters I leave it rotate up to 3-4k and roughing inserts usually work 25-35 in-cut minutes, finishing always last atleast whole shift, on manual lathe I work once a year at most and I'm always afraid to run RPM above 1000 revs but principle is the same, just hit the revs if you believe the part won't fly away
@@Universal_Craftsman should be but you need strong rigid machine to fully use their potential, when I work on 26kw turret lathe and rough 1.4404/316L stainless with walter WNMG080412 WSM20S RM5, 3.5mm DOC, 0.35mm/rev, 140m/min, I'm over 90% spindle power and it's dangerous because if the engine runs out of torque, the insert shatters, not mentioning force the turret must withstand and nice sounds it produces - SNMG inserts are used in 75° and 45° holders so you can add even more feed thanks to chip thinning - so you need strong machine to use the inserts in its intended limits and also the tool angle produces a lot of radial forces so you need big part that doesn't bend and very rigid machine that won't fall apart after few seconds of machining
It doesnt look like your running your lathe fast enough for carbide and yout depth of cut is too shallow also as theres a minimum depth of cut with insert tooling
Was intrigued until it was 12L14... It's like cheating using that stuff.
Alva Views
Great video needs better audio