Ideas Only the Rich Can Afford | Glenn Loury & Rob Henderson | The Glenn Show
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- Опубліковано 27 чер 2024
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PREORDER Glenn's memoir, LATE ADMISSIONS: CONFESSIONS OF A BLACK CONSERVATIVE. Available here or wherever you get your books: wwnorton.com/books/9780393881349
0:00 What makes an “elite”?
4:37 Rob’s very rough early childhood
7:39 Rob’s experience with foster care and adoption
12:35 Why Rob joined the Air Force
17:23 Ground News ad
19:43 The uses of military discipline
24:35 A 25-year-old military vet freshman at Yale
27:15 Luxury beliefs and cultural capital
32:16 Who bears the cost of defunding the police?
38:03 Two-parent households for me but not for thee
43:19 Revealed preferences and implicit understanding
43:17 Interclass resentment as a political weapon
55:04 How Rob became both the “token liberal” and the “token conservative”
1:00:22 Rob: Poverty doesn’t necessarily generate social dysfunction
Glenn Loury and Rob Henderson (Troubled: A Memoir of Foster Care, Family, and Social Class, UATX). Recorded February 19, 2024
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Elon Musk told of his account in court a few years ago, where no cameras were allowed, on the Lex Friedman podcast saying when he (Elon) came home to listen to CNN and MSNBC these stations reported on things that never even happened in the courtroom
Glenn is both an incisive interviewer and a kind listener -- a rare combination. There are moments in this conversation where you can only weep.
Wow. I've listened to every recent interview of Rob Henderson, but this one moved me the most. Thanks for having him on, Professor Loury.
Terrific interview Rob Henderson you were inspiring. Thank you for telling your story
Was nice to learn that Rob Henderson was the one who coined the term "luxury belief" and that Bourdieu's work "La distinction" contributed to that. Also nice to hear about his background.
It's very simple stuff if you're a deconstructionist. The fact that the separation of luxury and necessity is so difficult these days is troubling because it highlights how much of the advances of an advanced society are misconstrued as natural, or existent independent of society. The things they take for granted take a great big machine to provide for them and they're oblivious to it because they think it's a natural occurence being prohibited from others by the powers that be.
Two excellent human beings.
This is a fascinating interview, both Rob’s moving life story and his clear-cut, ideology-free analyses. I am looking forward to his future work!
Yes and ideology free is So Rare these days
The concept of luxury beliefs has allowed me to look more critically at the politics of my own "tribe," where they were easy to see on "the other side." Thanks.
I think it’s good to note that in rural communities- which are now being demonized- you will find people that check on their neighbors.
I think the concept of luxury beliefs is well worth thinking about. It sounds like a potentially destructive bit of hypocrisy.
Good show, gentlemen.
At the very least it exposes a cavernous lack of self-awareness. The rich white liberal elite are oblivious to the fact that they themselves _are_ the Bourgeoisie.
What a story. And thanks to Glenn for hosting and being real.
What a fascinating and compelling story Rob just walked us through. It gives a great backdrop on his writings and thoughts. Thanks Glenn for a very interesting conversation.
Go Leeds !
@@charlesglynn967Marching on together!
Best interview of Rob Henderson I have seen. Thank you Dr. Loury
What an inspiring and real man Rob Henderson is! So many amazing ideas and insights to build on. Can't wait to read your book.
Thank you for another quality podcast ❤
That moment at 21:32 when he looked down, got a little quiet, and said, “but, yeah, I enlisted instead.”
Wow. I'm approaching 50 and this talk is making me think I need to spend days on a couch talking to a good shrink. Rob's comments make me reflect back on so much, positive and negative, about my own life, attitudes, and choices.
Private beliefs vs public beliefs are everywhere, including in tech. Many execs whose companies are peddling social media platforms, prohibit their own children from using them.
Fascinating discussion!!! Thank you Dr Loury and Dr Henderson!
These two very intelligent human beings sharing their gifts, talents, and ideas with the likes of us is like a high tide raising all other boats. I look forward to your content, Glenn because I believe I grow from having listened to them.
Great interview. I breezed into college based on SAT alone. My absvab was really high. My HS transcript was a mess. The difference is I had a stable middle class family who could afford and tolerate more of my bullshit. In retrospect I should have enlisted.
That's a remarkably humble, honest and self-aware statement. As one of many with a similar story, I salute you.
Great talk very smart guy
It’s an amazing testament to the power of genetics over environment. Rob had all the stereotypical hardships working against him but didn’t resort to a life of crime and actually excelled above even those raised in a stable more fortunate home setting
I hope this helps Rob find love and a family of his own
Great conversation. Excellent observations.
Congratulations on rising above what you were born into, Rob!
FYI Rob, Malaysia isn't "very poor". You need to see some more Third World Countries.
Wonderful hearing feom Rob
Another outstanding podcast, I really respected the fact that Rob gave very succinct answers and did not ramble on. It made listening to him much more interesting and enjoyable.
I very enjoy listen to your show Mr. Loury. GOD BLESS.
Great interview and book !!
Great interview
Glenn thanks for another fascinating conversation. I’m so happy to have found your channel. You never disappoint.
Thank you Dr. Loury and Rob. This was an excellent educational experience.
He has an incredible and tragic backstory.
That was outstanding! Thanks for a great interview.
I could listen to Rob talk all day, fascinating guy
What an engrossing interview. Thanks for this one.
Glenn you are such a lovely listener.
hard to tell if he was listening or just not paying attention at all and reading something online
Best interview yet!
Fantastic conversation
It took me several days to watch this video thinking it would not be interesting…boy was I wrong! This kid (I’m OLD) is an amazing story of survival! Great job Glenn and a special thanks to Rob Henderson 💕
Excellent hour, thanks again.
Great interview! Rob is amazing!
Great interview. I really hadn't picked up that Rob spent 8 years in the military when I read the book (in one sitting).
Great conversation!
Such as sad story of your up bringing that I had to take a break from it....very emotional.
yeah, my family life was horrible also, i joined the army when i was 17, best thing ever for me - then got out at 23 and went to ucb for a ba mba then jd at ucd - if u r willing then yes u can make things happen!!!
I’m glad I read a lot of Tom Wolfe in my formative years.
Incredible talk. Fascinating life
BTW, excellent interview! Thank you, Glenn... and Rob.
Yale, Cambridge, Professor, you are in the elite class.
He is correct.
Outstanding gentlemen! Great insight
I think the layperson summary for this phenomenon that Rob describes is that, basically, "elites are full of shit".
I feel that since life's lessons are handed to elites and not earned, they are easily led to socially popular ideas.
Another great conversation. Thanks to you both.
Great guy - this was really great
Awesome podcast.
I would like to add one more movement that only the rich can afford - the get rid of math movement in high school. This only hurts poor people. Rich parents will continue to pay for math.
The get rid of math movement was even promoted by Freakonomics (which I normally don't think of as left wing). I will fight this one to the death.
Here is the problem with getting rid of math in high school:
1. High school is free, college is ridiculously expensive.
2. Most STEM college majors take 5 years if you have not had math in high school. The first year would be taking high school math classes.
3. You have to know math to know that you are replacing free math with ridiculously expensive math.
Some people want to get rid of math completely because it is "racist". (I am looking at you, San Francisco Board of Education). Others want to get rid of math because it makes children feel bad. (Algebra and above is not required, just don't enroll in the class).
Others (like Freakonomics) want to replace algebra and calculus with "useful math", ignoring the fact that statistics, finance and data science are built on top of algebra and calculus. I have no problem adding "useful math" courses, just don't kill the higher useful math courses.
BTW - Coleman Hughs was also seduced by Freakonomics so this is not a left vs right issue. I hope Coleman has abandoned this idea.
Re: the college classmate that was raised by her biological parents, but now labels marriage as obsolete, what are both of your thoughts on the possible influence for her being the ideology that was born of her college experience/teachings?
They had stupid lazy parents who didn’t actually teach their kids much or how to relate to the world
Such interesting insights. Glenn mostly listened.
Luxury beliefs, luxury bones, bubbles, and epi-stem-ology
This is why I left Seattle
31:10 I would even argue that in certain elite groups, conspicuous consumption is not a negative status move. Not that they live in austerity. But they drive a really nice Volvo, because it not got the stigma of BMW or Mercedes.
Especially for the "climate-conscious" elite. They're the ones driving the Tesla's and Rivian's.
@briane173
Excellent point. Of course, now that Musk is a "bad guy" it complicates their lives. 🤠
I am in Red Bluff, it’s a nice little rural place. We can see two active volcanoes from our area. Lassen and Shasta.
It’s a beautiful area if you don’t mind hot summers. 3 to 4 months of triple digits here in the summer.
I graduated high school there in 1968 so his experience is different from mine. But there is no real racisim here.
I had two parents both ex military. I never did anything but I ask myself “What if mom finds out?”
He went to Yale? Damn I couldn’t afford to go to Chico State. According to financial aid my folks made too much money for aid. Mom didn’t work and dad made $35k per year family of four. I had a 4.0 grade point average at the local community college.
I had to find a job. I went to work for the local county library for ten years. Later the Head Start program for five years. I went into horticulture later. Never had the opportunity to go to Yale. Worked harvests and in retail nurseries.
Here in Red Bluff we know our neighbors as well and watch out for each other.
Dude, he joined the air force outta high school, went to Yale on the GI bill, did you just tune that part out? And Chico State was TUITION FREE in 1968, btw. Work your way through college back then was easy. I went to nursing school at Merritt College in Oakland (tuition free!) 1983-85, worked every weekend and every holiday at a pharmacy, rented a room in Berkeley and borrowed $2500/year federal student loan which I paid back. I was 33 at the time and had zero help from family or anyone else!. Sorry but your you couldn't afford it story doesn't add up.
@@sunnyla2835 there are other costs to going to college on top of tuition. What part of I got a job at the local library did you miss?
@@sunnyla2835 how were you supporting yourself at 18? That’s how old I was in 1968.
The Problem about the Call for defund the Police, was that it was an Outburst of Anger.
No Politicians should have ever embraced it. It was okay for „Kids“ to scream out.
Refound the Police would have been the better Call.
The Police System needs repair, not les Money.
Some interesting similarities between Rob’s story and JD Vance’s (Hillbilly Elegy).
I was born and raised in Minneapolis, but now live about 30 miles north of the city. What was a safe, clean city full of beautiful parks and lakes where people didn’t bother to lock their doors is now a s**thole that I avoid like the plague. I won’t even drive through on my way to other locations. Following the George Floyd riots, a “progressive” woman who was a DFL chairperson jumped on the “defund the police” bandwagon in order to advance her career in the super liberal Twin Cities. She changed her tune very quickly after being attacked in her own driveway by a group of teens. Of course, her first call after she was beaten and robbed was to the Minneapolis police she had tried so hard to eliminate. She has since called for putting juvenile offenders directly in prison and throwing away the key. What a difference it makes when you’re the person being attacked.
It's too bad she had to go through that to realize common sense
Glenn picked up on the key problem with the luxury belief hypothesis in that the beliefs are cost free. For a costly signaling process to operate, costs have to be in either the signal itself, or in people's reactions to the signal. Virtue signaling more generally has this problem. It's neither costly to signal nor costly socially. Or is it? Might there be social costs.
Just like with any luxury good, it's poor people who suffer the true cost.
The wealthy person living in a gated community, doesn't experience the true cost of "defund the police." Here's an analogy: a millionaire spending two thousand dollars on the latest smartphone doesn't feel that cost.
The kid in the Congo breathing in toxic heavy metals while mining for raw materials, and the kid in Bangladesh or China getting paid less than a dollar day to assemble the phone - they're experiencing the true cost of the luxury phones that the wealthy consumers take for granted.
Right, which is contrary to the costly signaling argument that he was making for luxury beliefs. For example, in the case of conspicuous consumption, people signal wealth via purchase of expensive objects. This is an honest signal of wealth because if you are not rich, you can't afford the fancy stuff. But in the case of luxury beliefs, there's signaling but no obvious cost, which was expressed very nicely by Glenn@@_abracadabra
Claiming victimhood works as a justification to discriminate against your political opponents. The fact is that the people claiming to be victims are actually living in the safest and most prosperous of times in human history. The real driver is the fact that they think they can win@@KingRyanoles
Good discussion. Rob ought to look into the work of Rokeach and his work on values in which he divides them into Terminal Values vs. Instrumental Values. It might give him some insight.
A very interesting conversation and not about race, which is a holiday. It’s also nice to see someone who took the good bits of Bourdieu without his rigid far-left ideology. One comment though. Malaysia is not a very poor country at all. GDP per capita ppp is US33K pet year compared with the USA’s 76K. France’s is 55K. Kenya is 5.7K.
To the video editor: chapter "Interclass resentment as a political weapon" has the wrong timestamp. 43:17 is actually 2 seconds before the start of previous chapter. 49:20 , maybe?
I would love to know the origin of some of these luxury beliefs.
Probably college🥴
@@faithburns8379I think college is the indoctrination center, but the belief around the thought that I don't need to stay married has a different source like maybe feminism. Crazy.
guilt for their own privilege... "well I had this growing up & want this but I'm not suggesting that everyone has to be this way" rather than "I recognize that I am a product of this successful upbringing and I want that for my future too because it leads to better outcomes"
@@fs5775Thank you. Guilt for privilege requires a societal conditioning of shame, which may have begun in the 30's after the depression. I do not believe this was a condition in the opulence of the 20's and prior. I am interested in the impetus of social change. I am tracking an underlying principles for social change beyond technology as most textbooks suggest. I suspect that a lot social conditioning began with intention in the early 70's with reactive feminists that had Marxist leanings.
He explained it, started in Victorian era but as the affordability of visible “luxury goods” (watches, suits, shoes, cars, etc) allowed more folks to possess those items and appear rich, so they migrated it to intangible beliefs. Plus leftist rich folks are cheap af and not generous so they don’t like to spend their money, it’s cheaper to believe about dumb shit than own a yacht 😂
When I was a kid two parent families were the norm. You felt sorry for the kids of divorce. We were all pretty low income but we saw societal structures all around us that only the rich see today. What a tragedy for kids now. Especially minorities that aren't Asian or Nigerian.
Rob’s interview with Jordan Peterson that unpacks the realities of dating apps is exceptional as well!
❤
That was an impressive deep-diving analysis that many will find “offensive”. Yes, regurgitated undigested belief mantras have BECOME our class markers! They’ve replaced character and accomplishments. That’s how certain groups become “birdbrains of the same plastic feather”. 🙄😶🐦
I suggest that the 'elites' SEE THEMSELVES as that way when projecting such class-based beliefs--
virtue signaling becomes status symbol.
They’re insecure stupid people more concerned with what others think than facts of reality
Really enjoyed this interview, although Glenn seemed less than engaged. I dispute Rob's assessment of who and why people are drawn to a populist leader as well as who are those folks who personally follow politics closely. I see exactly what he describes on both sides of the divide.
This guy is making primates great again single-handedly. What a story.
“Primates”? 🤔
34:00 - In Minneapolis now that our police department is so much lower, various neighborhood associations have been bidding on getting extra cops to do drive through of their neighborhood at night. I am not quite sure exactly how that works or if I can describe it well. It's like they are technically not on duty but are working as private security for a neighborhood association or a coalition of bar owners but, they can use the police car and they still have police powers. The sort of people who run neighborhood associations tend to be pro-police. Most of the random people who just happen to live there, don't know about stuff like that so may not notice the difference.
RICKY BOBBY 🏁🏁🏁
??
How did he get into Yale?
High SAT score
The wealthy elite NEED to deflect blame or accountability, for effects in society that ABSOLUTELY are connected to the aggregate actions of their class, and by which the class benefits, away from their class and to some other apparently plausible culprits. This diversionary tactic is an emergent property, in my view, that serves as a self defense mechanism for the class, to protect and preserve their position of privilege within society. So, while the reality that exists in America today may be effectively the result of an insidious class war, the wealthy elite use their influence to support narratives of racial divisions and a race war in America - this is to pull a fast one on us, so to speak... to make us see a race war when actually there is a class war. So far, this tactic appears to have been working.
This guy's upbringing reminds me of Joaquin Phoenix's Joker's upbringing.
The rich live in gated communities but they have to come out.
Please reconsider the "woosh" sound for the graphics. I find it a little distracting personally. Great show otherwise!
The scratchy noise is Rob’s mic rubbing against the zipper of his hoodie when he turns his head.
What is so odd about leaving government decisions up to selected individuals? Our system is designed for precisely that. We elect representatives to handle that government stuff so we don't have to. Would you rather spend the day fishing with your grand kids or watch 10 hours of C-SPAN?
Fund well-trained, well taken care of, good cops /
❤ I think it’s far too easy to become a cop and there definitely needs to be a higher bar set
Depends on the Department. There are different hiring standards at different places.
Standards to become a cop are different in different areas. For example in Detroit you need a HS diploma. In Bloomfield Hills (expensive suburb of Detroit), you need college degree.
There are sub sets of class for instance in the 50's we were as RC children not allowed ( by the WASPs) to play with the well establishedn protestant children down the street .,we were believe it or not called Papists. All concerned were working class people.
He is reiterating the “Murphy Brown” scenario, whereby rich anchorwomen can have babies out of wedlock w little consequence. (Remember that kerfuffle?). It’s not just conforming to a popular idea, it indeed trickles down to the “lower” classes, to the folks who can least afford it.
Yes!!!
Gated communities being safe regardless of police is a myth they the residents need cops when they leave their comfy space that is enforced by police departments from bordering jurisdictions
They are safe not because of police presence but because of self- selection into gated communities just like best colleges are best not because of education but because of self selection of best students.
I like Rob, but I found it a little ironic that leaving comments on his blog and Twitter is paywalled. I get it, as an author/introvert; helps pay the bills and cut down on the noise. But with "Luxury Opinions" being a big part of his brand, it niggles a bit.
I think Rob has some very interesting ideas, but they're not really thought through. Glenn's questions about signaling vs. revealed preference gets at some areas that need more development. I think Rob needs to focus on three different variations of the "luxury beliefs":
1. Actual beliefs held by these affluent college students and recent graduates. I expect he'll find that most students outgrow these beliefs once they've lived in the real world for a while. Unless they stay in the academy, which doesn't count as the real world.
2. Virtue-signaling behavior - expressing insincere support for ideas the signaler doesn't really believe. I think he can find examples of this across age groups, especially in academia, but also now in the corporate world where HR organizations listen to opinion polls of students at elite colleges.
3. Cynical posturing for private gain. I see this among "activist" leaders who use their advocacy to gain influence and money - either as leaders of activist organizations, or politicians seeking support and votes from committed activists, or corporatists who want to live off the flow of government money directed to various causes.
These three different variations imply different motivations, different behaviors, and different approaches to counter.
I think his point was what they say they believe in things, for whatever possible motivations, that they would not believe if they were ones bearing the brunt of the things they advocate. Cozy liberals as they used to be called ranted and raved against the military and the corrupt gov't that we have but are only able to do so because our military strength prevents a group of power hungry monkeys from destroying this gov't affording them the opportunity to flap their gums with impunity.
f
Hey Rob! Marry that Malaysian girlfriend! Make babies! We NEED them! …….-married old guy with no regrets.
Haha. Biden is the “demagogue”, not Trump! Sick of this! I’m not at the “bottom”, the 1%, yet even I can see why anyone would be ready for change! What are you saying, Glenn? Did I miss it?
I've often remarked that rich white liberals are liberal because they can _AFFORD_ to be. But to add insult to injury they stack on top of that "white privilege" the presumptuousness of telling the "unwashed masses" what to think and how to think it. Goes a long way to explain why we continue to perpetuate the permanent underclass, which is defined by not just race but now sexuality and gender identity. We're all "victims" of one sort or another now, because that's where the white liberal elites draw their power from. Sort-of a fusion of socialism and capitalism: Manufacture a product, convince people they need it, and then profit off its sale -- except that the product is victimhood and the currency is _power._ That's wokeism in a nutshell.
What will the future bring with trades paying well and college educated people finding it hard to find employment?
virtue signalling is definitlty an uperclass thing
Platoon.
??
@@Brotherken1234 "Ideas only the rich can afford" is an idea conveyed in the movie "Platoon" .. virtually verbatim.
Like Sam Harris or David from, Glenn's TDS comes to fore.
As a young man I used to hitchhike. It was always conservatives who picked me up, never liberals.