Liandrin probably made a deal with Ishy for her son to stay with her, but he didn't get eternal youth, so he just stayed alive but was suffering from extreme old age, and this will just get worse over time. So Liandrin was feeling very guilty, yet she just couldn't bring herself to give him the mercy of death, that explains why when Lanfear killed him, Liandrin was sad and reluctant but accepted it because she knew it was better for him. The dialogue was scripted to explain this indirectly, but I think many people missed it. I think it would have been much clearer if the CGI and makeup had made her son look even older and barely alive, almost like a corpse.
This is for sure how that played out… additionally, Lanfear is a legend of terror from childhood stories and Liandrin is very aware of the extent of Lanfears power and how insignificant Liandrin is in comparison. So having this knowledge Liandrin would be very careful not to upset Lanfear no matter how disrespected she is.
I think that theory also makes more sense of why Moiraine would have used him as blackmail - if she knew he was alive well beyond his natural life span, she'd suspect there was something Liandrin would want to cover up beyond simply having a son.
the comment about liandrin not shedding a tear when her son died completely missed the point of the scene and the actress' performance. Liandrin could not react how she wanted to in the presence of lanfear who is far more powerful than liandrin. Note how Liandrin said Lady Lanfear in her presence.
While hard to watch, the A'dam scenes truly revealed the horror of the Seanchan. It is a million times worse than clipping a bird's wings. I got chills several times.
I have read the books several times and I have got to say the show is doing a EXCELLENT job of taking some license and going off the source material while adding or subtrracting elements wayyyyyy better than Rings of Power
I think more important than pouring the water into the cup was the water being thrown out of the cup. For me that was seemed to hold an even deeper meaning.
Liandrin is smart enough not to fight Lanfear. Especially after after her first attack was so simply brushed aside... She acknowledged her son's life was effectivly over already. She's controled enough to hold here emotions in check. After all "your greif is your own"
Its always interesting getting someone else's perspective on a scene. Personally I found the scenes with the yellow sister well done. We don't know her as well as we do Egwene and her suffering is only starting but I thought it was very moving. Perhaps it is because in the books we see so many Aes Sedai who are arrogant and condescending and determined to take charge of any given situation because of course they know best even thought they don't. The yellow sister on the other hand came across as what an Aes Sedai should be. She was patient and understanding with the Elaine and Nynaeve. Her first instinct is to try and smuggle them to safety while she remains in peril. When they refuse to leave she does not dismiss their concerns or try and be overbearing but accepts that is their choice and tries to work with them. When Nynaeve channels too much she does not lose her cool or descent into recriminations. Instead she goes to face her fate bravely sacrificing herself so that those she considers to be in her charge will have a chance of escape. She was a Servant of All. And while I know what happens to her in the book I would not be in the least bit upset if in the chaos that is about to descent on Falme she manages to escape the Seanchan. I suspect she won't but it would be nice to see a different outcome for such an outstanding character. On the issue of the characters meandering and not being driven I'd like to make the following points. Until he met up with Moiraine Rand thought he had done his duty and defeated the Dark One. Job done, all had to worry about was trying to have some sort of a life away from everyone he cared about and see if its possible to learn not to channell. Mat has been locked up in a cell and really out of the loop. He has no reason to think he's important in the grand scheme of things. Perrin has been chasing after the Horn until he got side-tracked by the Seanchan. Even when he escaped and was getting wolfbrother 101 lessons he though they were still chasing after Loial. When he learned they weren't he made a brief pitstop to bury a friend and comrade but the moment he can he's back on mission to rescue the people he cares about. Nynaeve & Elaine thought the Dark One had been vanquished so there is no need for them to rush training etc. At this point in time all the main characters are still finding their feet. Season 1 was all about who is the Dragon Reborn. I think Season 2 is more about who these people are at their core. Is Mat a wastrel who will cut and run the moment things get tough? is Perrin someone going to becomes someone like Elias who is distant from the world and does not really care what happens to most humans or will his friendship and loyalty to his friends tether him to his humanity. Is Rand just a powerful but ignorant tool for others to manipulate and use or will we see that he is going to start charting his own course? Is Egwene someone who will break or is she someone who might bent but the harder you push her the stronger she becomes?
Personally I loved the Ryma / Nynaeve / Elayne plot the most this episode. Her throwing off her jacket on the street, and giving her Warder a little wink was such a moment. I had an immediate connection to her. But on the other hand, what I am drawn to might not be the same for everyone else. I've read all the books and can see where things are headed. Preston hasn't, so I appreciate his perspective. I actually love the opinions from non book readers the most, because those are the people Prime Video wants to pull in the fold to make this successful 💜
@DominicBrennan You have given the best summary I've seen on this episode regarding the characters and their motivations. It is refreshing not to see a book purists perspective, but rather a well thought out view. I had not read the books before, but have found the story interesting and enjoyable. Your comment mirrors what I've been thinking as I watch the show. Maybe after the season is over I will start reading the books.
Thank you for your comment. I know some book readers really hate the show but I personally think they have unrealistic expectations. While there are differences I think the show has captured the essences of most of the characters. While I still love the books and how in-depth they can get into world building at the risk of being labelled as a book heretic there are things on the show that I think are handled better than they were in the books. An example would be Elaine trying to stop a friend getting into trouble as opposed to what she did in the books that saw her wind up in Falme. Liandrin is likewise much better developed and complicated than she is in the books. @@zakiya1635
This is a good explanation, but personally, I thought while the battle with Ryma "looked cool" it really did not make much sense. She would know that her being captured is a much bigger deal than two novices and it was kind of "main character-itis" that she would risk it. Plus, they did not even try to run with Nyneave and the other novice. And last season a few novices decimated an entire army, but a squad or two here is taking down powerful Aes Sedai, like the one in the kennel, which is inconsistent. But yes, it did "look cool" and was emotional. But int he books that made it much clearer that the Seanchen trying to take on a Aes Sedai was much more of a battle and it took a lot.
With respect I don’t think it’s fair to compare the nuking of the trollocks at the end of season 1 with the fight against the Seanchan. First the trollocks were funnelled into attacking from a single direction. They could not come at the women from the sides or from above. Secondly there were no innocent civilians in the target area. They certainly didn’t have channellers who could counter what the women were doing. When the Seanchan descended on them they were able to emerge from several different directions with the winding streets obstructing the yellow sisters field of fire. Plus they had at least one archer on the rooftop. That in turn gives the Aes Sendai another plane/direction she has to defend against. There are battle hardened combat channellers backing them up against a healer who is not a combat oriented green or red. I don’t think running was an option as the Seanchan were pouring in reinforcements from every direction. Any attempt to flee would see them run into one of those groups. As for the idea that the Yellow should have sacrificed a novice and accepted to save a more valuable Aes Sedai first it’s an Aes Sedai’s job to safeguard novices and accepted. Secondly Elaine was likely stronger potential than the yellow sister. Nynaeve certainly was. Not a good idea to let the seanchan collar such potentially strong channellers. Imagine what they could do with Nynaeve one they had her collared and broken. Lastly the yellow could have linked with the two women but is she really going to nuke a sizeable part of the city and kill possibly thousands? That’s what it would have taken to escape the very heart of the Seanchan occupation
The street battle was an incredible show of emotion and power, especially when Ryma uses her power to twist a few of the Seanchan attacker bodies like pretzels
I think the overarching plot is actually about the villains and their manipulations. We started the season with a cold open of Ishy saying they want to try and turn Rand, and its been slowly revealed that the villains have been trying to get our protagonists to head to/stay in Falme. The only hints we've been giving as to why are when Verin and Ishy talk about this prophecised battle in the sky above Falme, but so far it seems a bit if a mystery and dont know what thats meant to entail. I think the next episode will be one where Rand hears about this prophecy for the first-time.
Loved the episode and the two standouts for me are the acting by madaleine and natasha. Natashas acting had to be more subtle but she managed to portray lust, jealousy, anger, arrogance and a hint of madness underneath it all just with her expressions. Brilliant stuff.
It is surprising to me that we haven't really been told anything about the Horn of Valere this season. If it has the effect it had in the book it will come out of nowhere. In the books we are dripfed information about the Horn through the first two books. I am concerned about this lack of set-up.
introducing a Borg factor in a show is always effective.. Rand is not screaming but he seems to be devilishly manipulated by Selene on his way to total submission to the dark resistance is futile
From what I remember Moiraine's father died when she was a novice and she couldn't leave the white tower. There was also pressure to line her up on the succession struggle for the Aes Sedai to have influence and she resisted that. I should check that up to understand her face as she was accused of not caring.
Yeah, Preston definitely missed or misunderstood way too much of the story which is surprising. I know of him from his Game of Thrones videos where he seems quick to catch small details and character beats but here he is confused multiple times about things that are directly stated. Its odd to be this far in and think an Aes Sedai and her Warder (which they are pretty directly stated to be) are some married couple who oppose the invaders.
This episode was some of the best TV I have ever seen. That slavery depiction is so intimate and feels so real because its one on one. The counterpoint with Rhyma was so powerful and heartbreaking. I wept. Hard. It surprised me.
What is not clear yet in the show -and perhaps it will or maybe not - is that the reason Lanfear wanted The Dragon so bad was because of his power, so she wanted to be with him. Not real love, as Amber said she is in more for herself. She is a fascinating character with more than an infatuation.
I think it was real love. Power is one aspect g that makes a person desirable and I feel like book Lanfear was just not after Rands power. I think it was perfect description that she was a essentially a scientist that was researching one power and was almost obsessed about every aspect of power.
7:30 as much as I loved that whole ending sequence of the episode, I did have one minor gripe: you'd think that Ryma and Hossan would have planned and prepared an escape route, and that would have been the answer for all of them, instead of sacrifice being their only plan.
You could be right, but the Seanchan have Damane that can sense another woman who can channel. Ryma might have been hiding in that attic for a long time. Her Warder could probably find an escape route but for her to go out on the street would be dangerous.
Cash cow?! That stopped me in my tracks. Amber is so composed and should play poker. My facial expressions and desire for comebacks would give the whole thing away.
The first time Preston called Loial an "ogre" (not an Ogier), I waited for her to correct him because it seemed Amber died a little inside. But then I realized that she would have spent the whole podcast correcting him: Ishamael (not Ishmael nor Ismail), Perrin (not Peerin), etc.
@@pete4096, sometimes it's very amusing to know how wrong Preston is. Others, like the cash cow comment, are a bit harder - I was like, "You're confusing him with GRRM," but then I realized that was a bit toxic on my part and likely not even true to GRRM either.
Lol I never really liked the Picard centered episodes however this one was a good one and really scary idea of what this type of manipulation/torture can do.
Liandrin couldn’t do anything against Lanfear. So she smoldered. She blows up others who are lower than her. And as a young 20 something, Lanfear never represented all that dream girl insert. I think Jordan was trying to show through the Forsaken., all the myriad kinds and motivations for evil. Thus, she is a stereotype like all the other Forsaken. Much like the Seachan trying to break Egwene isn’t a moustache twirling villian. And while we pass judgment now, what happens when the Light faces hard choices? Just my two cents. Always interested when hearing what others have taken away from this great series. Both of you keep up your great works.
I don't know if it's a sign that the show isn't signaling to new watchers well enough - or if it's Preston just always trying to jump to critiques of things as too tropey or rushed, rather than actually analyzing the scene carefully and assuming that the writers know what they're doing and do things intentionally - but the take on Rand & Logain was completely off base. I think Preston was tricked by the visuals of how much Power there was around Rand into thinking it was a successful practice session but it absolutely was not. Rand didn't actually successfully do anything. Drawing a ton of Power isn't really success; indeed he could've burnt himself out. In a way, he failed the same way as Nynaeve in this episode: the first time ever trying to access the power in the "right" way (for Nynaeve: doing so without being angry or afraid; for Rand: taking control rather than submitting), and both of them immediately use/draw too much. It's like they were being taught how to delicately fill a vial with water and immediately turned on a pressure washer instead. And then there's the added factor that not only is Rand unable to control the amount he draws or actually do anything with it, but he also immediately vomits due to experiencing more of the Taint than ever before.
I liked the pairing of both of the Channeling displays because it feels very cautionary. I also feel like this show needs two viewings per episode for me to catch everything. I think Rand's display specifically, will be important for 208. Lots of needles being threaded.
I think your take on Rand and Logain and Preston is way off base. Preston’s gripe was on the scene being too short. Just cause Rand drew too much power the first time he embraced the power the right way doesn’t mean that he has a problem like Nynaeve with controlling the power. He is literally starting to learn how to channel. The session was a success in a way. Rand learned the right way to embrace the source and he could embrace it quite easily. The taint is something he like Logain will have to get used to. The problem is that the scene ends weirdly. Did Rand continue to train and learn weaves from Logain? The way the show structured the scenes there is no indication that the training session continued offscreen. If the training didn’t continue why did Rand leave after spending 30 seconds with Logain and vomiting once?
@@asmo773 You're literal agreeing with us now. The issue is we don't know how much he learned and there wasn't much of an indicator shown. That's it. If he ends up Channeling incredibly complex weaves in the finale will it feel earned? That's the discussion.
@@roadtotarvalon I was challenging the original comment. I agree with the discussion that the scene ended abruptly. It didn’t establish that Rand has a problem with channeling. It seems Rand inexplicably left after vomiting just once without learning any weaves from Logain.
Interesting discussion overall though I do think that the clarity of the writing was underplayed. I don't think its actually that hard to understand where characters are moving, what is motivating them, or what the show is building towards. For example, is Perrin's plot really meandering? -Perrin splits from the wolf brother because the wolf brother doesn't want to help in Falme -He goes to the village to bury the one soldier who didn't bend the knee -Going to the village gains him an ally who will clearly be helpful for a prison break -We learn that the Whitecloaks are fighting the invaders and plan to push them out of Falme and Perrin gets to spare the life of one of their leaders -The last time we see Perrin he is heading to Falme with his new ally. I also wouldn't assume things like Matt being brought to the second city for no reason and that his presence will be meaningless for what happens there, or that Moraine's family and the wedding is unimportant, and so on. Side note: Liandrin's response was different with Lanfear than with Nynaeve because she was clearly terrified of Lanfear and just trying to keep some measure of composure in front of her.
It appears they want to show Ishmails plans fail, this is a key to the underlying story. Min is a regular girl young and given a gift that could make her or her family rich, they are trying to develop why she becomes so loyal besides being, 🔥and bothered in Rand's presence. 😊😊❤❤❤❤
I just thought of something while hearing you guys talk about the episode. When ishy was in the dream with lanfear, and he asks her if she will betray him, do you think that may have been a prelude to the fact that ishy started a dream with Rand and then lanfear shows up and wisks him away...like they had both planned that to happen to gain Rand's trust? So in essence ishy asking lanfear is she would betray him, was actually ishy asking lanfear if she would betray him as part of the plan, since of course he did release her first for the very reason we see in the show....for Rand. So now lanfear is talking to rand about ishy and her not working together when in actuality all of it was planned by him to begin with? Just a thought
Brandon has a big team, but it's mostly all the extra stuff like web, selling merch etc. He does the writing and rewriting himself! definitely not stream of consciousness. One thing he is good at though and the team helps is getting lots of feedback from beta readers.
I've seen the Beta reader lists and you're not kidding! I don't know much about Sanderson but have read a couple of his books here and there. Pattern is a masterpiece. Love that little weirdo 😆💜
yessss. love so many of the spren but pattern is the best. been listening to the audiobooks with my bf and it's his first time and we just got to shallan and pattern going to the plains and it's so great listening again.@@roadtotarvalon
Currently reading book 5 and loving the series. Is there any book I have to look forward to? My favourite characters currently are Matt Suane Moraine and Nynaeve
If you like Mo & Siaun, New Spring is shorter and fun. Nynaeve has some cool moments in 6. Mat has plenty of fun moments littered throughout the series.
Book 6 Lord of Chaos has some powerful and horrifying chapters involving Rand’s storyline. Don’t look it up - wait until you get there, it’s not too far off!
4:20 Intereting thing is I don't think Renna was being "insincere". Not fully at least. I mean yes, she obviously doesn't see Egwene as a full person and thinks she should be leashed. But I don't think that conflicts with genuinely wanting a sort of "friendship" with Egwene. Just like how "good, kind slave master" trope who, being raised in a slave society doesn't see anything wrong with slavery but still thinks slaves should be treated relatively well. Obviously slavery is still evil and being a kind master doesn't justify it or make the owner a good person. But it is fully possible for them to see themselves as a good person and be sincerely kind to their slaves. 11:30 Well, as I understand it, the plan wasn't Mat not going with Rand. Quite the opposite, he was supposed to be with Rand. Min confessing and telling Mat not to go was not part of Ishamael's plan.
It’s pretty clear in my opinion that Amber from Road to Tar Valon knows her subject matter extremely well. She just chose to have a show-only guest on her channel to showcase a different viewpoint and she respected his opinion without correcting him all the time. The book readers have a better understanding than show-only people of what’s going on, but sometimes it’s interesting to see how much a show-only person picks up 😊
I really don't understand, why they were using the one power in the middle of the city, it is kind of like. Amateurish decision, 2 aes sadais are dead, a sitter is captured, using the power with novices in a dangerous area makes the Aes Sadai reckless, and put all in danger. The scene was awesome, her sacrificing herself for the other girls, powerful and very good acting. Just my thought, Robert Jordan being a military man tried very hard not to make non astute assumptions, unless the person was into punishment pain and/or getting caught. The scene was great! But the underlying premise, she cannot control it, was amateurish. Robert Jordan had an assistant, deep track of all the names, abilities and were they appeared, so he wouldn't reuse them and look like an amateurish. The readers really appreciate this world building.@@roadtotarvalon😍😍😍
How do you guys spend like 20 minutes talking about the role of hot women and teens in entertainment.. after THIS episode we just had! The parts before and after we're great though. Listening to Preston and others who haven't read the book does make me realize there is a lot non book readers aren't getting
@@roadtotarvalon It's a fine discussion.. I was just hoping to hear about the great episode that just aired instead. Preston has a tendency to go on long tangents which is fine for his stream.. not what I was hoping for here.
The "collaring Egwene" portion of the Episode was the only portion that was remotely true to the original story. Does no one want to see the original story (even a condensed version) portrayed?
I thought the showrunner mentioned an increased budget for season 3?! If that means more episodes or more budget per episode is up to the showrunner I would think. Otherwise very entertaining and fun you guys, from a non-bookreader!👍👍👍🎡🎡🎡⌚️⌚️⌚️
Liandrin probably made a deal with Ishy for her son to stay with her, but he didn't get eternal youth, so he just stayed alive but was suffering from extreme old age, and this will just get worse over time. So Liandrin was feeling very guilty, yet she just couldn't bring herself to give him the mercy of death, that explains why when Lanfear killed him, Liandrin was sad and reluctant but accepted it because she knew it was better for him. The dialogue was scripted to explain this indirectly, but I think many people missed it. I think it would have been much clearer if the CGI and makeup had made her son look even older and barely alive, almost like a corpse.
I think you're spot on!
This is for sure how that played out… additionally, Lanfear is a legend of terror from childhood stories and Liandrin is very aware of the extent of Lanfears power and how insignificant Liandrin is in comparison. So having this knowledge Liandrin would be very careful not to upset Lanfear no matter how disrespected she is.
Such a great theory. I'm rewatching it now!!!
I think that theory also makes more sense of why Moiraine would have used him as blackmail - if she knew he was alive well beyond his natural life span, she'd suspect there was something Liandrin would want to cover up beyond simply having a son.
I also think ppl underestimate that she would be terrified of Lanfear and very aware that she can’t go ham on Lanfear.
the comment about liandrin not shedding a tear when her son died completely missed the point of the scene and the actress' performance. Liandrin could not react how she wanted to in the presence of lanfear who is far more powerful than liandrin. Note how Liandrin said Lady Lanfear in her presence.
Agreed. Liandrin was horrified, relieved, terrified. Who has time for crying? Her crying came later. Alone.
While hard to watch, the A'dam scenes truly revealed the horror of the Seanchan. It is a million times worse than clipping a bird's wings. I got chills several times.
I have read the books several times and I have got to say the show is doing a EXCELLENT job of taking some license and going off the source material while adding or subtrracting elements wayyyyyy better than Rings of Power
Noticing the pouring the water metaphor is so smart. I’m over here watching it surface level 😂
I think more important than pouring the water into the cup was the water being thrown out of the cup. For me that was seemed to hold an even deeper meaning.
🙈 there's so much going on with the cup!
@@roadtotarvalon yes you are right the whole thing has so much hidden meaning. This too was my fav episode of the series.
Liandrin is smart enough not to fight Lanfear. Especially after after her first attack was so simply brushed aside... She acknowledged her son's life was effectivly over already. She's controled enough to hold here emotions in check. After all "your greif is your own"
Agreed. Her presence in the room changes the dynamic ten fold.
Its always interesting getting someone else's perspective on a scene. Personally I found the scenes with the yellow sister well done. We don't know her as well as we do Egwene and her suffering is only starting but I thought it was very moving. Perhaps it is because in the books we see so many Aes Sedai who are arrogant and condescending and determined to take charge of any given situation because of course they know best even thought they don't. The yellow sister on the other hand came across as what an Aes Sedai should be. She was patient and understanding with the Elaine and Nynaeve. Her first instinct is to try and smuggle them to safety while she remains in peril. When they refuse to leave she does not dismiss their concerns or try and be overbearing but accepts that is their choice and tries to work with them. When Nynaeve channels too much she does not lose her cool or descent into recriminations. Instead she goes to face her fate bravely sacrificing herself so that those she considers to be in her charge will have a chance of escape. She was a Servant of All. And while I know what happens to her in the book I would not be in the least bit upset if in the chaos that is about to descent on Falme she manages to escape the Seanchan. I suspect she won't but it would be nice to see a different outcome for such an outstanding character.
On the issue of the characters meandering and not being driven I'd like to make the following points. Until he met up with Moiraine Rand thought he had done his duty and defeated the Dark One. Job done, all had to worry about was trying to have some sort of a life away from everyone he cared about and see if its possible to learn not to channell. Mat has been locked up in a cell and really out of the loop. He has no reason to think he's important in the grand scheme of things. Perrin has been chasing after the Horn until he got side-tracked by the Seanchan. Even when he escaped and was getting wolfbrother 101 lessons he though they were still chasing after Loial. When he learned they weren't he made a brief pitstop to bury a friend and comrade but the moment he can he's back on mission to rescue the people he cares about. Nynaeve & Elaine thought the Dark One had been vanquished so there is no need for them to rush training etc.
At this point in time all the main characters are still finding their feet. Season 1 was all about who is the Dragon Reborn. I think Season 2 is more about who these people are at their core. Is Mat a wastrel who will cut and run the moment things get tough? is Perrin someone going to becomes someone like Elias who is distant from the world and does not really care what happens to most humans or will his friendship and loyalty to his friends tether him to his humanity. Is Rand just a powerful but ignorant tool for others to manipulate and use or will we see that he is going to start charting his own course? Is Egwene someone who will break or is she someone who might bent but the harder you push her the stronger she becomes?
Personally I loved the Ryma / Nynaeve / Elayne plot the most this episode. Her throwing off her jacket on the street, and giving her Warder a little wink was such a moment. I had an immediate connection to her. But on the other hand, what I am drawn to might not be the same for everyone else. I've read all the books and can see where things are headed. Preston hasn't, so I appreciate his perspective. I actually love the opinions from non book readers the most, because those are the people Prime Video wants to pull in the fold to make this successful 💜
@DominicBrennan You have given the best summary I've seen on this episode regarding the characters and their motivations. It is refreshing not to see a book purists perspective, but rather a well thought out view.
I had not read the books before, but have found the story interesting and enjoyable. Your comment mirrors what I've been thinking as I watch the show. Maybe after the season is over I will start reading the books.
Thank you for your comment. I know some book readers really hate the show but I personally think they have unrealistic expectations. While there are differences I think the show has captured the essences of most of the characters. While I still love the books and how in-depth they can get into world building at the risk of being labelled as a book heretic there are things on the show that I think are handled better than they were in the books. An example would be Elaine trying to stop a friend getting into trouble as opposed to what she did in the books that saw her wind up in Falme. Liandrin is likewise much better developed and complicated than she is in the books. @@zakiya1635
This is a good explanation, but personally, I thought while the battle with Ryma "looked cool" it really did not make much sense. She would know that her being captured is a much bigger deal than two novices and it was kind of "main character-itis" that she would risk it. Plus, they did not even try to run with Nyneave and the other novice. And last season a few novices decimated an entire army, but a squad or two here is taking down powerful Aes Sedai, like the one in the kennel, which is inconsistent. But yes, it did "look cool" and was emotional. But int he books that made it much clearer that the Seanchen trying to take on a Aes Sedai was much more of a battle and it took a lot.
With respect I don’t think it’s fair to compare the nuking of the trollocks at the end of season 1 with the fight against the Seanchan. First the trollocks were funnelled into attacking from a single direction. They could not come at the women from the sides or from above. Secondly there were no innocent civilians in the target area. They certainly didn’t have channellers who could counter what the women were doing.
When the Seanchan descended on them they were able to emerge from several different directions with the winding streets obstructing the yellow sisters field of fire. Plus they had at least one archer on the rooftop. That in turn gives the Aes Sendai another plane/direction she has to defend against. There are battle hardened combat channellers backing them up against a healer who is not a combat oriented green or red. I don’t think running was an option as the Seanchan were pouring in reinforcements from every direction. Any attempt to flee would see them run into one of those groups.
As for the idea that the Yellow should have sacrificed a novice and accepted to save a more valuable Aes Sedai first it’s an Aes Sedai’s job to safeguard novices and accepted. Secondly Elaine was likely stronger potential than the yellow sister. Nynaeve certainly was. Not a good idea to let the seanchan collar such potentially strong channellers. Imagine what they could do with Nynaeve one they had her collared and broken.
Lastly the yellow could have linked with the two women but is she really going to nuke a sizeable part of the city and kill possibly thousands? That’s what it would have taken to escape the very heart of the Seanchan occupation
The street battle was an incredible show of emotion and power, especially when Ryma uses her power to twist a few of the Seanchan attacker bodies like pretzels
I loved the death pretzel 😆
@@roadtotarvalonDeath pretzel! 😂 Love it!
I think the overarching plot is actually about the villains and their manipulations. We started the season with a cold open of Ishy saying they want to try and turn Rand, and its been slowly revealed that the villains have been trying to get our protagonists to head to/stay in Falme.
The only hints we've been giving as to why are when Verin and Ishy talk about this prophecised battle in the sky above Falme, but so far it seems a bit if a mystery and dont know what thats meant to entail.
I think the next episode will be one where Rand hears about this prophecy for the first-time.
Loved the episode and the two standouts for me are the acting by madaleine and natasha.
Natashas acting had to be more subtle but she managed to portray lust, jealousy, anger, arrogance and a hint of madness underneath it all just with her expressions. Brilliant stuff.
Agreed. She's killing it.
It is surprising to me that we haven't really been told anything about the Horn of Valere this season. If it has the effect it had in the book it will come out of nowhere. In the books we are dripfed information about the Horn through the first two books. I am concerned about this lack of set-up.
Hopefully more next episode 🤞 possibly coming from Ingtar???
introducing a Borg factor in a show is always effective..
Rand is not screaming but he seems to be devilishly manipulated by Selene on his way to total submission to the dark
resistance is futile
From what I remember Moiraine's father died when she was a novice and she couldn't leave the white tower. There was also pressure to line her up on the succession struggle for the Aes Sedai to have influence and she resisted that. I should check that up to understand her face as she was accused of not caring.
Yep you've got it 💜 TV wanted an Aes Sedai on the throne and she bolts.
Mat has self-doubt and is easily manipulated and that is implied from the previous episodes, so it makes sense that he believes Min's prophecy
Another great discussion from you two, helps me put my thoughts about the show into perspective and order
I get the feeling that Preston either doesn't like the show or is not paying much attention. I do like your input though. I will watch the next one.
Yeah, Preston definitely missed or misunderstood way too much of the story which is surprising.
I know of him from his Game of Thrones videos where he seems quick to catch small details and character beats but here he is confused multiple times about things that are directly stated.
Its odd to be this far in and think an Aes Sedai and her Warder (which they are pretty directly stated to be) are some married couple who oppose the invaders.
This episode was some of the best TV I have ever seen. That slavery depiction is so intimate and feels so real because its one on one. The counterpoint with Rhyma was so powerful and heartbreaking. I wept. Hard. It surprised me.
The events depicted in Egwene's capture occurred in the books, but the show makes them so real.
What is not clear yet in the show -and perhaps it will or maybe not - is that the reason Lanfear wanted The Dragon so bad was because of his power, so she wanted to be with him. Not real love, as Amber said she is in more for herself. She is a fascinating character with more than an infatuation.
I think it was real love. Power is one aspect g that makes a person desirable and I feel like book Lanfear was just not after Rands power. I think it was perfect description that she was a essentially a scientist that was researching one power and was almost obsessed about every aspect of power.
7:30 as much as I loved that whole ending sequence of the episode, I did have one minor gripe: you'd think that Ryma and Hossan would have planned and prepared an escape route, and that would have been the answer for all of them, instead of sacrifice being their only plan.
You could be right, but the Seanchan have Damane that can sense another woman who can channel. Ryma might have been hiding in that attic for a long time. Her Warder could probably find an escape route but for her to go out on the street would be dangerous.
She should have send the Warder with the important news about Seanchan and Balck Ajah to Tar Valon and then overdraw on the Power to fight.
It's so hard to write Tav'eren for T.V because it feels weird that characters are being pulled in unexpected directions.
Agreed. And hard for it not to come off to the average viewer as just a plot convenience or plot armour
Cash cow?! That stopped me in my tracks. Amber is so composed and should play poker. My facial expressions and desire for comebacks would give the whole thing away.
🙈🤐
The first time Preston called Loial an "ogre" (not an Ogier), I waited for her to correct him because it seemed Amber died a little inside. But then I realized that she would have spent the whole podcast correcting him: Ishamael (not Ishmael nor Ismail), Perrin (not Peerin), etc.
@@pete4096 yeah, probably not a good idea. It will be fun to see how he starts realizing things and changing his perspective. For now, we endure.
@@pete4096, sometimes it's very amusing to know how wrong Preston is. Others, like the cash cow comment, are a bit harder - I was like, "You're confusing him with GRRM," but then I realized that was a bit toxic on my part and likely not even true to GRRM either.
@@pete4096 After this episode I think we should just agree to settle on "ishy" :P
There! Are! Four! Lights!
Lol I never really liked the Picard centered episodes however this one was a good one and really scary idea of what this type of manipulation/torture can do.
Liandrin couldn’t do anything against Lanfear. So she smoldered. She blows up others who are lower than her.
And as a young 20 something, Lanfear never represented all that dream girl insert. I think Jordan was trying to show through the Forsaken., all the myriad kinds and motivations for evil. Thus, she is a stereotype like all the other Forsaken.
Much like the Seachan trying to break Egwene isn’t a moustache twirling villian. And while we pass judgment now, what happens when the Light faces hard choices?
Just my two cents. Always interested when hearing what others have taken away from this great series.
Both of you keep up your great works.
Easily the best episode.
I really enjoyed it. Hardest to watch, but the best one so far.
I don't know if it's a sign that the show isn't signaling to new watchers well enough - or if it's Preston just always trying to jump to critiques of things as too tropey or rushed, rather than actually analyzing the scene carefully and assuming that the writers know what they're doing and do things intentionally - but the take on Rand & Logain was completely off base.
I think Preston was tricked by the visuals of how much Power there was around Rand into thinking it was a successful practice session but it absolutely was not. Rand didn't actually successfully do anything. Drawing a ton of Power isn't really success; indeed he could've burnt himself out. In a way, he failed the same way as Nynaeve in this episode: the first time ever trying to access the power in the "right" way (for Nynaeve: doing so without being angry or afraid; for Rand: taking control rather than submitting), and both of them immediately use/draw too much. It's like they were being taught how to delicately fill a vial with water and immediately turned on a pressure washer instead. And then there's the added factor that not only is Rand unable to control the amount he draws or actually do anything with it, but he also immediately vomits due to experiencing more of the Taint than ever before.
I liked the pairing of both of the Channeling displays because it feels very cautionary. I also feel like this show needs two viewings per episode for me to catch everything. I think Rand's display specifically, will be important for 208. Lots of needles being threaded.
I think your take on Rand and Logain and Preston is way off base. Preston’s gripe was on the scene being too short. Just cause Rand drew too much power the first time he embraced the power the right way doesn’t mean that he has a problem like Nynaeve with controlling the power. He is literally starting to learn how to channel. The session was a success in a way. Rand learned the right way to embrace the source and he could embrace it quite easily. The taint is something he like Logain will have to get used to.
The problem is that the scene ends weirdly. Did Rand continue to train and learn weaves from Logain? The way the show structured the scenes there is no indication that the training session continued offscreen. If the training didn’t continue why did Rand leave after spending 30 seconds with Logain and vomiting once?
@@asmo773 You're literal agreeing with us now. The issue is we don't know how much he learned and there wasn't much of an indicator shown. That's it. If he ends up Channeling incredibly complex weaves in the finale will it feel earned? That's the discussion.
@@roadtotarvalon I was challenging the original comment. I agree with the discussion that the scene ended abruptly. It didn’t establish that Rand has a problem with channeling. It seems Rand inexplicably left after vomiting just once without learning any weaves from Logain.
Interesting discussion overall though I do think that the clarity of the writing was underplayed. I don't think its actually that hard to understand where characters are moving, what is motivating them, or what the show is building towards.
For example, is Perrin's plot really meandering?
-Perrin splits from the wolf brother because the wolf brother doesn't want to help in Falme
-He goes to the village to bury the one soldier who didn't bend the knee
-Going to the village gains him an ally who will clearly be helpful for a prison break
-We learn that the Whitecloaks are fighting the invaders and plan to push them out of Falme and Perrin gets to spare the life of one of their leaders
-The last time we see Perrin he is heading to Falme with his new ally.
I also wouldn't assume things like Matt being brought to the second city for no reason and that his presence will be meaningless for what happens there, or that Moraine's family and the wedding is unimportant, and so on.
Side note: Liandrin's response was different with Lanfear than with Nynaeve because she was clearly terrified of Lanfear and just trying to keep some measure of composure in front of her.
Best episode yet by far. Still wish they would light the night scenes better. So hard to see what's going on.
It appears they want to show Ishmails plans fail, this is a key to the underlying story.
Min is a regular girl young and given a gift that could make her or her family rich, they are trying to develop why she becomes so loyal besides being, 🔥and bothered in Rand's presence. 😊😊❤❤❤❤
I just thought of something while hearing you guys talk about the episode. When ishy was in the dream with lanfear, and he asks her if she will betray him, do you think that may have been a prelude to the fact that ishy started a dream with Rand and then lanfear shows up and wisks him away...like they had both planned that to happen to gain Rand's trust? So in essence ishy asking lanfear is she would betray him, was actually ishy asking lanfear if she would betray him as part of the plan, since of course he did release her first for the very reason we see in the show....for Rand. So now lanfear is talking to rand about ishy and her not working together when in actuality all of it was planned by him to begin with? Just a thought
It could definitely be the case. I like this.
Hell in the Cell.
Brandon has a big team, but it's mostly all the extra stuff like web, selling merch etc. He does the writing and rewriting himself! definitely not stream of consciousness. One thing he is good at though and the team helps is getting lots of feedback from beta readers.
I've seen the Beta reader lists and you're not kidding! I don't know much about Sanderson but have read a couple of his books here and there. Pattern is a masterpiece. Love that little weirdo 😆💜
yessss. love so many of the spren but pattern is the best. been listening to the audiobooks with my bf and it's his first time and we just got to shallan and pattern going to the plains and it's so great listening again.@@roadtotarvalon
Preston, please do an analysis on Dragonlance!
Currently reading book 5 and loving the series. Is there any book I have to look forward to? My favourite characters currently are Matt Suane Moraine and Nynaeve
If you like Mo & Siaun, New Spring is shorter and fun. Nynaeve has some cool moments in 6. Mat has plenty of fun moments littered throughout the series.
Book 6 Lord of Chaos has some powerful and horrifying chapters involving Rand’s storyline. Don’t look it up - wait until you get there, it’s not too far off!
4:20 Intereting thing is I don't think Renna was being "insincere". Not fully at least.
I mean yes, she obviously doesn't see Egwene as a full person and thinks she should be leashed.
But I don't think that conflicts with genuinely wanting a sort of "friendship" with Egwene.
Just like how "good, kind slave master" trope who, being raised in a slave society doesn't see anything wrong with slavery but still thinks slaves should be treated relatively well. Obviously slavery is still evil and being a kind master doesn't justify it or make the owner a good person. But it is fully possible for them to see themselves as a good person and be sincerely kind to their slaves.
11:30 Well, as I understand it, the plan wasn't Mat not going with Rand. Quite the opposite, he was supposed to be with Rand. Min confessing and telling Mat not to go was not part of Ishamael's plan.
Question: can Rand be collared and made a Demané?
Did you guys read the books
No Eden Heaven... I just named my UA-cam channel after a series I know nothing about and have a hundred videos dedicated to a series I didn't read 💅
@@roadtotarvalon then I guess you have no excuse my bad.
It’s pretty clear in my opinion that Amber from Road to Tar Valon knows her subject matter extremely well. She just chose to have a show-only guest on her channel to showcase a different viewpoint and she respected his opinion without correcting him all the time. The book readers have a better understanding than show-only people of what’s going on, but sometimes it’s interesting to see how much a show-only person picks up 😊
@@leec9489 💜
Why would you go out of town spend a week figuring it out,
Putting on collar and not knowing how to take it off might be a bucked up
???
I really don't understand, why they were using the one power in the middle of the city, it is kind of like. Amateurish decision, 2 aes sadais are dead, a sitter is captured, using the power with novices in a dangerous area makes the Aes Sadai reckless, and put all in danger. The scene was awesome, her sacrificing herself for the other girls, powerful and very good acting. Just my thought, Robert Jordan being a military man tried very hard not to make non astute assumptions, unless the person was into punishment pain and/or getting caught. The scene was great! But the underlying premise, she cannot control it, was amateurish.
Robert Jordan had an assistant, deep track of all the names, abilities and were they appeared, so he wouldn't reuse them and look like an amateurish. The readers really appreciate this world building.@@roadtotarvalon😍😍😍
Please don’t bring this guy back
Ismael
Oh come on. Don't act like you knew how to pronounce ALL the names without looking at the glossary 🥴
How do you guys spend like 20 minutes talking about the role of hot women and teens in entertainment.. after THIS episode we just had!
The parts before and after we're great though. Listening to Preston and others who haven't read the book does make me realize there is a lot non book readers aren't getting
It all pertains to the books 🤷🏼♀️ sorry it's so upsetting to you.
@@roadtotarvalon It's a fine discussion.. I was just hoping to hear about the great episode that just aired instead. Preston has a tendency to go on long tangents which is fine for his stream.. not what I was hoping for here.
The "collaring Egwene" portion of the Episode was the only portion that was remotely true to the original story. Does no one want to see the original story (even a condensed version) portrayed?
Lanfear is a pscyho narcissist who could not handle being rejected by Lews/Rand. No idea wtf you on about😂
Are you under the assumption i don't think she's unhinged lolol. You must be new to my channel 😆
I thought the showrunner mentioned an increased budget for season 3?! If that means more episodes or more budget per episode is up to the showrunner I would think. Otherwise very entertaining and fun you guys, from a non-bookreader!👍👍👍🎡🎡🎡⌚️⌚️⌚️