When I first became an FBI agent in 1997 in Sacramento, I transported a guy who kidnapped a National Forest worker in Oregon and kept her a prisoner for 4 days. She was alone, cleaning the toilets. She escaped from his RV and he was arrested on the California side of the border. This was his second time doing this. He was recently released from his previous kidnapping conviction 10 years prior. Then in 1999, the FBI Sacramento Office investigated and eventually caught Cary Stayner, who killed 4 women near and in Yosemite. If you're a single woman, be very mindful of your surroundings, especially if you're out in the woods by yourself. The male 2-legged animal is the most danger.
@@dylanlovesall The FBI are also normal people, so sometimes they do normal people things too 👍🏼 I'm sure since this happened so long ago, it's not confidential.
That's why you have to take your own personal safety seriously, Samuel little murdered an estimated 93 women 50-53 confirmed. Gary ridgway murdered estimated 73 women 49 confirmed. Monsters are out there and when your ass is in the fire you might be the only one avaliable to get yourself out. Hell simply traveling together prevents most crimes, unfortunately not in this case. Maybe carry a knife, pepper spray, or firearm, hell why not all 3?
@anna-belllively1031 Point missed. There are a great number of people who have committed horrific crimes, who have either never been caught, or actually did serve their ridiculously low sentence, and will go on to commit more horrific crimes. It happens more often than you can imagine. Bigger picture, indeed
Also, people with serious criminal histories are more likely to become vagrants due to trouble getting work after prison... especially people on sex offender registries. People under estimate how dangerous the trails can actually be.
This story is very tragic and is yet another reminder of how dangerous hiking can be. My friend Samantha Sayers went missing on August 1st 2018 on Vesper Peak in the North Cascades of Washington. She has still not been found and we have no clue what happened to her.
It really saddens me when I hear of peaceful, nature-oriented good people like these two wonderful women, viciously murdered by some demonic psychopath.
I know Julie Williams family. This was such a horrific crime and so incredibly hard on her family who is so close knit. The whole community was in shock. Thank you for bringing this case back into the light. I pray that Julie and Lollie's families someday find closure.
He wants us to subscribe to his channel but he won’t describe what happened. this isn’t it really clearly putting it out there. What happened to the women. Were they stabbed to death or what?
@@aprilshepard8662 Thanx April for saving me almost 14mins that I would otherwise never get back. When you tell a non fiction story all the gory's are a must unless it's like a sexual crime, and I 100% agree with you..
It was gory and doesn't want to get into the details of to spare others that don't want to hear that. If you are that curious, look it up and read the book.
My husband & i went on an academic exchange from the UK to NC. We were keen ‘hill walkers’ so told our colleagues about our plans to explore the AT amongst other amazing hiking areas we had heard about. We were told it was really risky, to let people know exactly where we were going, be suspicious of lone males and under no circumstances camp overnight. This was back in ‘95.
I highly recommend the book *Trailed: One Woman's Quest to Solve the Shenandoah Murders* by Kathryn Miles. It's an incredibly well-written breakdown of this case and also an amazing tribute to Lollie and Julie and their families and community. Such a tragedy
A bit off topic but another well researched book is 'On Trails' from ant trails, to wilderness trails, to highways, to the internet. Award winning. Anyway, I remember first reading about this case in Bill Bryson book A Walk in the Woods'
Thanks for the book recommendation although I'm not sure I want more details.I feel like I'm prey as a women no matter how careful or strong I am.This is an awful story.❤🇨🇦
I used to hike alone a lot with my dog, one day the trail I hiked at often had two incidents where a two men on different parts of the trail had attacked and attempted to kidnap and murder people. The one man had gone after two different women who both thankfully escaped and the other man had attacked a couple with a knife. I was hiking there around that time and saw it on the news when I got home. Haven't been back in years and they never found the men. Hiking lost a lot of it's appeal after coming that close to being murdered in the woods.
I was followed once while hiking alone. Luckily it didn't happen until I was close to the parking lot, leaving. Knives in both hands, I was ready. I won't be hiking alone again ever.
Stop using logic. The NPS of the US wants visitors to be defenseless at all times against human predators and animal ones. Not like a firearm could be useful in the wilderness or something.
I'm a 57 year old Grandma and stumbled upon your channel and am thoroughly enjoying it! I would like to start some day hiking and I'm learning a lot from you. Thanks!
I just looked up this case. There is an article from one day ago that says they have confirmed the identity of the killer. His name is Walter Leo Johnson. Kyle, if you read this, that is your answer.
I think it was the first guy. Hated women. Lied about going to the park on those days, but admitted to going shortly after? Why, because he knew what happened. The attempted abduction, sexual slurs, totally fit. Hopefully like you said, they re-do the evidence with todays technology. Sick people. Very sad.
I agree that the first guy seems like a very likely suspect from his other actions. I don’t know how many predators are in the park on the average day but he was one of them.
In the book Trailed, it proved the first guy’s comments were taken out of context. He did not hate gay people. The second guy Richard Evonitz looked completely guilty but he committed suicide after a girl he kidnapped and restrained much like Julie and Lolli escaped. He was a serial killer.
Charging someone just because, they fit doesn't mean they fit the charge. That's how the real criminals continue to kill. Things aren't always as they seem. Men hating women is not exactly rare. They said the DNA didn't match him so, I'd say that's that.
I thru hiked in 1998. While in the Park near the location of the murders, my partner (female) and I (male)were taking a break while a random old man emerged from the woods from what appeared as a game trail. As he spoke to us I found him non threatening but my partner did not like the energy from him. As we packed up to leave he wanted to show us his farm which bordered the Park. My partner was very angry that I said "sure" and she continued down the trail without me, while I walked a short distance behind the man to get a look at his beautiful farm. As I caught back up to my partner she said that that was incredibly stupid that he could have been the murderer of those 2 women and I could have been killed. Odd situation.
Well, hopefully police interviewed all the surrounding properties….like peoples farms. But next time listen to that womans intuition lol, we tend to have better spidey senses than men do :)
I know a lot of backpackers frown upon it, but stories like this are why I carry a firearm on trails when I’m alone or with a friend who is also a woman… I like to live my life without having to be afraid that someone will try to take advantage of me because of my looks. I wish it wasn’t that way, but humans are animals too. Animals that tend to be a hell of a lot more dangerous then any bear I could run into. A wild animals could come after you, you could scary it off, and it will leave. A human knows that you’ve seen it and it has nothing left to lose.
I remember when this happened. I used to go to Shenandoah National Park a lot, hiked the trails, and camped there. I went often by myself but every now and again a friend would join me if their schedule permitted. I never camped anywhere but at the actual main campgrounds or campgrounds near Skyline Drive. After this story hit we even started to fear camping in a campground if it was only one or two people because the murdered was never caught, so we only went with groups of 6 or more people. As someone else stated, it is heartbreaking to think that people seeking the solace in God's natural beauty would have been murdered in such a terrible and violent way. I hope that the family can find some peace in the days without them. God Bless the family. Requiescat in pace.
I remember this well. It really freaked me out because I’d been solo backpacking in Shenandoah the weekend before; different part of the park, but still… I hope someone solves this cold case.
They had a suspect. I think the creeps mother gave him an alibi. I remember when it happened. That is a very popular area. This is one of the reason I don't camp near roads. There were some other bad things that happened on Skyline Drive.
Good luck camping in SNP, then. I feel you, though. I try to camp away from shelters or road junctions as well. Most of my hiking is done in the winter months, though, so it cuts down on a lot of the random weirdos you meet at high-traffic areas.
What else has happened near Skyline Drive? And that’s a great point about not camping near roads, same as why it’s not as safe to camp/hike through areas close to cities/places with more people = more crime
I remember this case very well. So sad and frightening. My husband and I camped at Shenandoah NP with our children every summer and fall for many years, and we have been on most of those trails and overlooks mentioned. We were camping there with friends shortly after this happened. All the campers were talking about it. Condolences to the families 💐
It really would be smart if the feds just started running DNA through the system to try and bring closer to some of these older cases. Especially since we’ve seen it works well since the popularity of DNA tests. Perfect example is the Golden Gate killer.
There are actually whole divisions of the FBI geared towards such things (my future career hopefully). Something people get mixed up is a cold case and a closed case. Case is only closed when it is solved, otherwise it is labeled cold (The distinction that authorities cannot find anymore leads and can't make anymore distinctions), the case is then put somewhere else depending on situation. However the majority of these are barely looked at due to a continuous flood of cases, DNA tests can take weeks or months even when put on rush.
They don't have the resources for that. There is a backlog of months on stuff that just happened. I don't know I think it might be a good idea for them to hire more people and build more labs but apparently that's not in the budget. We can send a couple hundred billion dollars to Ukraine and God only knows how many billion to the climate change hoax, but we can't protect and take care of our own people over here including Police Services and updated crime labs
@@forensic_bones185and I’m assuming having to run so many tests gets quite expensive too. Personally, I am hopeful that maybe they can use genealogical forensics at some point and find out who killed these beautiful souls.
Crazy that this came up in my recommended feed, as I just read a few minutes ago the FBI has determined who their killer was. He was a serial rapist who died in prison in 2018.
I live in Harrisonburg VA, right around the corner. This story is so tragic & terrifying. I hope they both get justice. Look into Rachel Good who's missing from the area, also supposedly unsolved, but we all know who did it & he got away because he's a town cop.
@@michaelyunkelo1757 It would be shameful to know that a person is a killer, and not do anything about it. Be discrete but do the right thing. That cop needs a tune up.
I appreciate you opting to keep the details out, for sharing their story with respect and allowing more people to hear it without the second hand trauma. Absolutely devastating for these poor women. Great video Subbed 💜
thank you for the way you discuss these cases. It's my biggest gripe I have with true crime UA-camrs -they never mention the families, or say anything close to a "rest in peace" about the victims. The way you spoke about them showed that you have empathy and aren't just using their horrific deaths for clicks.
@@2Namii sure coffeehouse crime and kendall rae do, but outside of those two, I very rarely hear it. especially when it comes to the super click baity videos.
Thanks for putting this story out there. The good thing about you doing these videos is that you’re a great storyteller and you put these cases back in the spotlight. Which someone needs to do. I know some people complain that you do both hiking and true crime videos, but hikers go to these areas a lot. Who knows if one of them might pick up a clue because they heard it here. I am subscribed to your Patreon. It better not be shitty beer, Kyle lol
As lesbian woman I would never step foot in a high traffic trail like that without some firepower. There’s just too many nut jobs looking for vulnerable people to victimize.
How about as a NORMAL woman? Why throw out who you’re attracted to? Many of us WOMEN are more vulnerable than people like you. Otherwise yes, I agree… never travel without your ccp and firearm(s). Two straight girls from Europe went backpacking in Morocco, convinced they were safe. They were both beheaded, and the perpetrators filmed it with their own Facebook live feeds. Not USA, but historically and currently far more normal women get beaten, battered, raped, and murdered, than you lot (alphabet brigade). This is just yet another stark reminder that women are not as powerful as many men, no matter how fit we are, and so it’s a good idea for us all to know how to protect ourselves.
It wasn't a high traffic trail. That's the problem. In 96, the rule was for hikers, campers, etc. to stay out of sight. Of course, that rule has been changed, too late for them. Just recently, a lone female hiker was stabbed to death.
I was thru hiking in 96. I remember the news and the flyers very well. I spent a night in a shelter in the smokies with a sketchy dude. The next day, the rangers came through looking to question him. I always figured he was the killer since then. For no other reason than the vibe he had. Thanks for the update, I Had not heard about the outcome and the fact it's still unsolved. So sad.
That is so true but I've watched a lot of rescues and they have almost always been men. Much gratitude and respect for the good guys (and of course girls)
@@riverdeep399 That's true and I did include girls in my compliment. I wasn't necessarily talking about rescue services I was talking more about people on the street helping people in distress and again I mean there are some good men who shouldn't go unmentioned (and again women also who can be incredibly braven-way to go girls!).
Because predators want easy prey and men have physical strength to go up against another man and women are generally physically weaker. Its why women in crime tend to manipulate instead. Plus, with abortions......it just goes to show women will do the same thing.
More than 7 billion people in the world. There's not a lot it's that you watch crime channels everyday that contain all the cases in history. So u think this happens more than it does. It's like me watching all the suicide one by one of course it's gonna make suicides seem like they are happening to every single person
Wow, this case is so similar to the murders a couple years ago of Kylen and Krystal. They were killed near a remote trail in Moab, Utah at their remote campsite. Personalities and profiles of the victims very similar. They never have caught their killer either. Eerie similarities.
You are correct about the similarities. More correct than you actually realize, because law enforcement did reveal the person they've determined was responsible for ending the couple's lives in the Moab case. He was a man that worked at McDonald's, where one of the women worked. This man was also said to have been hostile at work, and he'd actually been fired, I believe. He too was allegedly agitated about the sexuality of the two women. He'd learned about his coworker not being straight because her partner would occasionally come to visit her at work to have lunch and eat together. When the man left the job, he allegedly went into a downward spiral, as reported by a girlfriend he'd ended a relationship with shortly after his firing. He soon ended his own life. I believe he had struggled with finding work, or something about being unemployed and facing financial struggles had really gotten to him. Along with the likelihood the stress of his crime and potentially being caught must have weighed heavy on him. Law enforcement was able to track cell phone records, and confirmed that he had been in the same place and at the same time of the place and time of the women's death. So it's eerily similar, actually. I'm quite curious about the state of their bodies in the more recent death. This too, was left out from nearly all media coverage, although I did hear a report, or maybe it was a report of a report (I forgot) about their bodies from the woman who found their bodies. She said they were unclothed from the waist down, we're in a creek, and with contorted bodies. The contorted bodies part is what really strikes me as odd, because this is the type of thing that can happen with chemicals, radiation, etc., not homicide. I have wondered if this was a cover up. There are bodies of water that can release toxic gases, or experience sudden rises in temperature that can easily burn bodies. For some reason with all these National Parks deaths, it seems like law enforcement is much more eager to place blame upon the evil of mankind than the powerful and sometimes unknown or unpredictable power of Mother Nature.
I love these "Trail Mystery" editions. I have followed your channel for quite some time, but these are by far my favorite videos. Great job at giving a rational, logical and experienced backpacker's viewpoint to these tragedies and doing the missing and the missing's families some honor. I'm sure they appreciate them as well as everyone watching. Keep these up!!
Great video and summary of what happened. I read the book written on them, Trailed, and it is fantastic. It really dives deep into what happened and the suspects. Its very dark and complex and I feel deeply for these women and their families who loved them. Based on what I read in the book, it seems more likely that it was the second suspect. The book really delves into his past and connection to the case and I think it makes sense. Its a shame that their families may never know or get closure with this. They deserve better ❤
It's so scary to hear stories like these because it makes me think of when my dad and sister did a section hike of the AT and after the first night my dad backed out because he was too out of shape to keep going so my sister stayed one night by herself to finish the section they'd planned 🤦♀️ If i had known so many people had been attacked throughout the years!!! She wants to do it again and i really don't but id do it with her so she's not alone which is how i came across these videos but apparently two grown women isn't enough! What do we need to feel safe hiking in nature?! Guns, dogs, invisibility cloaks??? 😮💨
Anyone who hikes these isolated trails should always carry bear or pepper spray and I would take a small firearms safety course and get my license to carry as well, better to be safe than sorry!
I am crying. I remember the summer this happened hiking and backpacking in SNP with my partner at the time. I was 22 and we were both female. We didn't know the murder had happened at the time. We learned about it at SNP when we saw the flyers of the 2 women asking for info about the case and we immediately knew that it was a lesbian couple that had been targeted. I remember hiking to a crowded overlook on the A.T. in the park with my partner and an older man came up to us in particular and told us to be careful. It was so overwhelming once we realized it could have been us who were murdered. Of course every murder regardless of the person's identity is horrific but this video brought back the reality of how it feels to know you are more vulnerable out there as a queer woman with your partner and even just as a woman who loves being outdoors alone. I remember the mainstream news reported on this but wouldn't say that the two women were a couple which was so relevant given that that was a likely reason why they were targeted. The lgbtq community at the time immediately understood what happened and had vigils for the women and demanded this be investigated as a possible hate crime. Sometimes I come close to forgeting how dangerous the world is for women, racial, queer, and other minorities but I never really forget it.
Horrific! The world's most dangerous and despicable creatures lurk around on 2 legs. BTW Kyle congrats on the growth of your channel. I started watching your videos on last year's PCT hike. Do you plan to do any big hikes this year?
i was working in the park at that time, at Skyland and Big Meadows. I was an independent contractor doing construction work. The FBI was checking local stores and examining their inventories of duct tape and staples. It was known that the victims were lesbians and many people thought it was a brutal hate crime. The place was a zoo though with law enforcement and news crews everywhere.
I remember thinking maybe it was a hate crime, but that wasn’t public info for quite some time. True, it was ‘96, but how out were they, if at all. Maybe someone on the trail found out and did it. They should use familial DNA. Even if the killer is dead, they can often come up with the correct person. At least it might give the families some sort of explanation, even if it’s twisted.
It really is a no-brainer. I always carry something even if I go to the smaller state parks. Over the last 15 years of hiking I have seen some very strange things in our parks and Forest. I used to go hiking for years with my 120 lb dog. I no longer feel safe on the trail by myself. I will only go with my husband and the 120 lb dog and other safety measures. Also, for my personal experience winter hiking is safer. Most people do not want to get out in the cold. Then again I am fortunate it doesn't get that cold in Tennessee.
Hiking used to be my ultimate sanctuary. My purest joy. I insisted on solo hiking, EVERYWHERE. Yosemite was my Holy Land (3 time employee). Then Cary Stayner slaughtered 4 women in and around Yosemite, the last of whom (Joie Armstrong) lived in Foresta, where my brother in law lived, and whom we had often visited. Not only did this monster destroy 4 women and their families, he shattered my last hope & stronghold in the majesty & purity of nature, and so I hike... no more. The whole point was to get back to the earth and away from people. Instead... hiking in the woods has become a death trap for women (and many men, but mostly women). It's ironic how much I used to fear bears while hiking in Yosemite when the predator all along was a 2-legged maintenance man working @ Cedar Lodge. Instead of bringing "Bear Spray" to the backcountry, they should repackage it as, "Man Spray", and REQUIRE all females to carry it. Please note - I do not hate men. My only child is a male and he is a product of Yosemite. But, there is no mistaking the fact that like a gentleman said in a reply below, man is the most dangerous predator of all. So yeah, trail murders have cured me of hiking and now I live with a broken heart because if it. Rest in Peace, Joie, Carol, Juli, Silvina, Julie, Lollie, and all the women who have been slaughtered by men not only on the trail, but in the world. 🙏🌏🥾🥾🔆
I am sad for you. I have heard of these stories, but I will not give up hiking. The wilderness has always been as dangerous as it is beautiful, with or without crime. It's bad enough that women live under a self-imposed curfew for the entirety of our lives. We don't need to give up any more of our freedom. Hiding yourself away will not magically make you safer, - the wilderness we call cities, towns or suburbs are ironically more dangerous. Crime is much more likely in your neighborhood than on a trail. So it's not necessary to give up what you love. Just be smart, follow common sense, go with other people, and you will be fine. I did a challenging bouldering route and at the top found only women, taking lunch and enjoying the view. It was a beautiful sight.
No, it hasn't. Hundreds of millions of people visit U.S. national parks every year. Murders are so rare they become the stuff of UA-cam videos and documentaries. 58% of wilderness and national park visitors are male, but 81% of all-cause fatalities there are male.
I watched the short on this story. I ended up watching a video of 3 hiker photos with disturbing backstories first and then found this full video of the short. I think it the fastest I ever subscribed to a chanel. Looking forward to watching ur content
This story is heartbreaking. It hits home because I've done a little backpacking, long ago, in Yosemite, Séquoia and Kings Canyon. It's just so great to be out in the nature. We took due measures against bears and scavengers of food of course. The thought of something tragic like this happening was far from our minds. My heart goes out to the families and friends of these ladies. Thank you for the story, albeit truly evil. I say, make the most of your rights to carry!
I was in Luray Virginia and Shenandoah national park that weekend with friends. I signed a visitors log while I was there and later contacted, I think by the FBI, to see if we saw anything, but we didn't.
It’s really a shame that women aren’t free to walk through a park, hike, jog, camp without the potential to be attacked or murdered ~ and we will never be.
@@SouthernBelleReviews You think a grizzly cares about your pronouns? It sees you as raw hamburger in clothes. A killer sees a defenseless target. Carry protection or take the risks.
I hope more than anything that their final adventure together was like a dream. I hope they had so many amazing final moments and that they felt nothing but love leading up to their horrible and untimely demise. They loved heading into the wilderness and hiding from the world together and i can only imagine how in love they really were. I just hate that you can’t hide from evil anywhere. It’s always somewhere close by.
Such a terrible thing to have happen. Prayers for the family and friends of both victims. I hope through DNA they catch the sicko who committed the crime.
Just found your channel and love it! You'll have 1M subs in no time, let alone 200K! I've seen channels like yours grow exponentially time and time again. As for this heinous crime, I hope that whoever did this is eventually caught. And I hope that for the past 26 or so years, this monster, even though not caught for this particular crime, has been in prison for whatever reason and that every single day of his pathetic is and will continue to be miserable.
Great presented video. You will be suprised how common it is not to find gear or actual person when missing. Often the person will be found in areas that have been searched already. Unfortunately, there was a serial killer operating in these areas aswell as the Blue Ridge Mountains and Colonial parkway.
Different story, but you should read the book "Death in Big Bend". It is a book written by a park ranger from Big Bend National Park, lots of weird and interesting stories in there.
This is why its very important to pay attention to your surroundings. Also to carry a weapon with you for protection and keep it close to you when sleeping. One more thing, wondering why the dog didn't bark or tried get the attacker.
Never heard of this case before but it's eerily similar to the recent murders of Kylen Schulte and Crystal Turner in Moab Utah. Another female couple in a romantic relationship found brutally murdered in their remote campsite in 2021. It does have more of a conclusion though as the case was closed even though no arrest was able to be made 😢
I lived near there at the time, working in a restaurant at bottom of skyline drive. There were a couple other murders that happen in that part of Virginia, it was a very concerning time for local women.
I am very shocked that investigators did not suspect Randall Lee Smith of this crime. He raped and murdered a woman and her boyfriend on AT in 1981. AND HE WAS PAROLED IN 1996 where he went unnoticed until 2008 when he was arrested for the attempted murder of 2 fishermen on the AT. There is also Gary Hilton who came to mind as a suspect.
So frustrating that they can't prove enough to charge somebody with the murders. I hope when the searchers found the dog they took it to safety and it had a good home with either of the families or somebody else.
I was on the AT during that weekend with my 9 yr old son. We were south of the crime area and were questioned by a NP Ranger when returning to our vehicle. They didn't tell us why they were questioning us, and I only found out about the murders while chatting with some area locals. Then I recalled that there was a man heading south on the trail and passed myself and my son as we were heading north to our vehicle. The man seemed strange and my gut feeling was to keep moving north and keep looking back. I always wondered if it was the guy that took those girl's lives.
I live in front royal & hike on skyline drives trails all the time. I’ve done hawksbill 8 times now & if I ever go up there again I’m going to have a thought of these ladies in mind. Always disturbing to hear of these cases so close to home
I remember this well. I lived in Sherando, VA in the national forest when this happened. So sad. I hope for their families that this case will be solved. (We had to actually get on a national forest Rd to get to our cabin. I was abit scared for AWHILE after this happened!)
Thank you for not going into complete detail about the murder site. There’s usually a fine balance with this type of content between investigative and some morbid curiosity vs trauma porn and exploitative. Rest In Power ladies.
I actually prefer books about crimes because they share details of the murders, but not in a distasteful way, but in a way that gives more insight into the actual crime and the mindset of the killer.
@Dani K how were they murdered? From my experience reading crime books and having learned psychology, the how is always important to figuring out the who and their mentality
I was working for a gay newspaper when this happened and remember our coverage of it. It was a lot more risky to be a visibly gay couple in the '90s than it is now, and we were pretty certain that they were targeted intentionally. We had to be very careful with stories like this where we would have to make sure that it was okay to identify someone as LGBT and not unintentionally out them.
@@AliceSusanHarding Right? But even when it seemed obvious to us, the heteronormativity was strong, and closet situations were common, and you had to verify that they were publicly out before reporting.
I remember when this happened and was the same age as they were. It was very horrible and scary. Back then these horrible things were not happening every week like now. I quit camping alone after this. Pretty much quit camping all together...
Unfortunately in recent years I've learned that we seem to have had at least two or more serial killers that either live or travel the park and skyline regularly...I think one has been caught..
Sorry Julie and Lolie😢💔 hope you guys are resting well and the killer goes straight to the inferno if they havent by now. Probably some old senile fart about to croak if they are alive still. Theres a good chance that you are not their only victims. There are people out there who are so twisted
I like how you have continued to do your original content in addition to this great new style of content. Both will help your channel grow for sure in tandem I think. Good stuff man thanks.
With the world having gone completely mad, the appeal of hiking, camping, and solo vanlife is lost on me. People say don't live in fear; but I believe a healthy dose of fear can help keep you alive. The Park rules changing, cell phones & social media, all could've helped to keep those poor women alive. Or, caught the person by now. Simply tragic.
Taking my wife to tackle Mount Marcy and about ten of the other 46ers on a 3 day backpacking trip this weekend. It’s our first multi day backpacking trip and this probably isn’t the best video to watch before leaving 😂 thanks for your other videos tho, they have helped me get ready for this trip immensely!
@@ByondTheNorm Yes. A bug net hat. Or misquito net hat. You can pick them up at Walmart for cheap. The black flies will murder you behind your ears and back of your arms when you're hiking. Off Deep Woods in the green bottle with deet is the only bug spray that works. The deet free stuff is crap for black flies. The ADK black fly season is no joke. I can't stress that enough. I hope your girl doesn't mind bugs. :) I live 2 hrs from Mt Marcy and come from a long line of hikers in NY. I still avoid hiking in mid-late May because of the flies. I do early spring and put up with the mud and fall hiking.
Scott Bartlett. I’m not a hiker but I appreciate the knowledge and survival skills many of you hikers have. I kinda wondered if someone was to leave the trail to approach a campsite if the camper would immediately feel like there’s a possible threat. You kinda answered that for me I think. I also wondered how often you encounter other hikers on a huge trail like the AT. Like can you go a whole day without seeing anybody? I know I’ll probably never hike a trail that long myself so I’m just asking in the comment section.
@@gerry1620 I'm not a thru hiker but have been outdoorsy all my life and camped a decent amount, hiked alone etc. Definitely would feel like a threat and I wouldn't approach someone's camp without announcing myself either. It's like walking into someone's living room without knocking, just startling
@@viceb7 Thank you for the reply. I ve only camped in fairly busy overcrowded campgrounds so I haven’t really hiked or camped in isolated places where people are scarse.
@@gerry1620 no problem! I love the hiking comments, everyone is usually friendly 😊 I've been in pretty barren places, and when I was growing up more crowded campsites. I prefer the lower crowded areas for sure but definitely would be more cautious with people when less are around. I've never had any issues though and generally everyone I come across hiking is very kind and out there for the same reasons so that's nice too
It reminds me of murder of Rebecca Wight. She and her girlfriend Claudia Brenner were attacked by man with a firearm. Sadly Rebecca had passed away due to injuries. As a meber of LGBTQ+ community it saddens and terrifies me to the core
Wow.I just can't Imagine the horror one second you're enjoying your moment then suddenly have to face this😢and not even surviving to tell the story .Rip condolences to their families.
This reminds me of the couple murdered in Moab. At least they feel sure they know who killed those ladies. They too were camping. I pray they someday find this monster. RIP. Blessings to your families.
your videos are the best, your documentary skills are top notch, the presentation is very tight, the visuals that go along with your explanations are on point, please keep up the great work. I hope you get enough subscribers that you can do this for a living, because you are definitely good enough to do it professionally, imo
ADK 46er is an organization of hikers who have climbed all forty-six of the traditionally recognized High Peaks of the Adirondack Mountains. They are often referred to just as 46ers.
SOLVED! They just ID’d Walter Leo Jackson Sr. this week. He was serving time in an Ohio prison but died in 2018. He was a serial rapist.
When I first became an FBI agent in 1997 in Sacramento, I transported a guy who kidnapped a National Forest worker in Oregon and kept her a prisoner for 4 days. She was alone, cleaning the toilets. She escaped from his RV and he was arrested on the California side of the border. This was his second time doing this. He was recently released from his previous kidnapping conviction 10 years prior. Then in 1999, the FBI Sacramento Office investigated and eventually caught Cary Stayner, who killed 4 women near and in Yosemite. If you're a single woman, be very mindful of your surroundings, especially if you're out in the woods by yourself. The male 2-legged animal is the most danger.
you work for the fbi and comment on videos?
thats scary
@@dylanlovesall
Maybe retired or no longer working for FBI.
@@dylanlovesall The FBI are also normal people, so sometimes they do normal people things too 👍🏼 I'm sure since this happened so long ago, it's not confidential.
@@dylanlovesall you probably have friends who are feds or are related to feds 💀
What is truly scary is just how many people convicted of violent crimes or suspected of murders are freely walking the streets and trails.
That's why you have to take your own personal safety seriously, Samuel little murdered an estimated 93 women 50-53 confirmed. Gary ridgway murdered estimated 73 women 49 confirmed. Monsters are out there and when your ass is in the fire you might be the only one avaliable to get yourself out. Hell simply traveling together prevents most crimes, unfortunately not in this case. Maybe carry a knife, pepper spray, or firearm, hell why not all 3?
Tons of the people suspected of those allegations are also innocent family people. # BIGGER PICTURE
@@anna-belllively1031you're dramatically over estimating. It's like 2% at the most.
@anna-belllively1031 Point missed. There are a great number of people who have committed horrific crimes, who have either never been caught, or actually did serve their ridiculously low sentence, and will go on to commit more horrific crimes. It happens more often than you can imagine. Bigger picture, indeed
Also, people with serious criminal histories are more likely to become vagrants due to trouble getting work after prison... especially people on sex offender registries. People under estimate how dangerous the trails can actually be.
This story is very tragic and is yet another reminder of how dangerous hiking can be. My friend Samantha Sayers went missing on August 1st 2018 on Vesper Peak in the North Cascades of Washington. She has still not been found and we have no clue what happened to her.
how sad
Im so sorry your friend hasn't been found 😢
I'm so sorry. I'll look into her story today and be sure to share it with family members and friends.
So sad for her family and friends. Prayers for both.
So sorry for your loss...how tragic for you and family. ❤️🙏
It really saddens me when I hear of peaceful, nature-oriented good people like these two wonderful women, viciously murdered by some demonic psychopath.
This is why women can't enjoy anything on this Earth.
@@priesteresmarietje4772 now that is just plain nonsense.
@@priesteresmarietje4772 Only a moron child thinks the world can be made 100% safe for women. Murders and animal attacks happen to all genders.
@@priesteresmarietje4772 yeah, because it only happens to women...
I don't really believe in hell, but some people truly belong there
I know Julie Williams family. This was such a horrific crime and so incredibly hard on her family who is so close knit. The whole community was in shock. Thank you for bringing this case back into the light. I pray that Julie and Lollie's families someday find closure.
He wants us to subscribe to his channel but he won’t describe what happened. this isn’t it really clearly putting it out there. What happened to the women. Were they stabbed to death or what?
@@aprilshepard8662 Thanx April for saving me almost 14mins that I would otherwise never get back.
When you tell a non fiction story all the gory's are a must unless it's like a sexual crime, and I 100% agree with you..
It was gory and doesn't want to get into the details of to spare others that don't want to hear that. If you are that curious, look it up and read the book.
I found the shameless plug in the beginning a little crass but I hope this helps add publicity catch the perpetrator.
@@peaceoutlisar9500 My issue is the plugging of his channel. There has to be a more tactful way or just allowing users to subscribe if they wish.
My husband & i went on an academic exchange from the UK to NC. We were keen ‘hill walkers’ so told our colleagues about our plans to explore the AT amongst other amazing hiking areas we had heard about. We were told it was really risky, to let people know exactly where we were going, be suspicious of lone males and under no circumstances camp overnight. This was back in ‘95.
Same advice my brother got when he visited an area in the Pacific Northwest.
Get a handgun, practice with it, and don't hesitate to use it.
@@michaelyunkelo1757 yes
Fast forward 2023. Just imagine what it's like now. 😳
@@umelokarnes5460 wdym what its like now
I highly recommend the book *Trailed: One Woman's Quest to Solve the Shenandoah Murders* by Kathryn Miles. It's an incredibly well-written breakdown of this case and also an amazing tribute to Lollie and Julie and their families and community. Such a tragedy
I agree! I recently finished it and it was so well researched.
It was a good book and I agree with the author’s conclusion about the identity of the murderer. A lot of political correctness in the book, though:(
A bit off topic but another well researched book is 'On Trails' from ant trails, to wilderness trails, to highways, to the internet. Award winning. Anyway, I remember first reading about this case in Bill Bryson book A Walk in the Woods'
I have this book on my kindle and have had it for a while. I need to read it.
Thanks for the book recommendation although I'm not sure I want more details.I feel like I'm prey as a women no matter how careful or strong I am.This is an awful story.❤🇨🇦
I used to hike alone a lot with my dog, one day the trail I hiked at often had two incidents where a two men on different parts of the trail had attacked and attempted to kidnap and murder people. The one man had gone after two different women who both thankfully escaped and the other man had attacked a couple with a knife. I was hiking there around that time and saw it on the news when I got home. Haven't been back in years and they never found the men. Hiking lost a lot of it's appeal after coming that close to being murdered in the woods.
I was followed once while hiking alone. Luckily it didn't happen until I was close to the parking lot, leaving. Knives in both hands, I was ready. I won't be hiking alone again ever.
Stop using logic. The NPS of the US wants visitors to be defenseless at all times against human predators and animal ones. Not like a firearm could be useful in the wilderness or something.
I'm a 57 year old Grandma and stumbled upon your channel and am thoroughly enjoying it! I would like to start some day hiking and I'm learning a lot from you. Thanks!
I just looked up this case. There is an article from one day ago that says they have confirmed the identity of the killer. His name is Walter Leo Johnson. Kyle, if you read this, that is your answer.
'Yay for DNA', and science.
I think it was the first guy. Hated women. Lied about going to the park on those days, but admitted to going shortly after? Why, because he knew what happened. The attempted abduction, sexual slurs, totally fit. Hopefully like you said, they re-do the evidence with todays technology. Sick people. Very sad.
I agree that the first guy seems like a very likely suspect from his other actions. I don’t know how many predators are in the park on the average day but he was one of them.
In the book Trailed, it proved the first guy’s comments were taken out of context. He did not hate gay people. The second guy Richard Evonitz looked completely guilty but he committed suicide after a girl he kidnapped and restrained much like Julie and Lolli escaped. He was a serial killer.
@@debbiemann2752 Thanks.
If he's still alive. In the end though he will be judged by the Lord just like everyone else.
Charging someone just because, they fit doesn't mean they fit the charge. That's how the real criminals continue to kill. Things aren't always as they seem. Men hating women is not exactly rare. They said the DNA didn't match him so, I'd say that's that.
With all of these gruesome stories, might be a good reason to carry some form of self defense in these high traffic trails
That right there could well have prevented this outrage.
@@nancybryson5488 not necessarily, unfortunately
@@xBINARYGODx
Would have increased their chances.
Uh oh you better be careful. Telling people to arm and protect themselves is akin to hate speech in these parts
Murder on trails is nothing new.
Better to have a means of defense.
I thru hiked in 1998. While in the Park near the location of the murders, my partner (female) and I (male)were taking a break while a random old man emerged from the woods from what appeared as a game trail. As he spoke to us I found him non threatening but my partner did not like the energy from him. As we packed up to leave he wanted to show us his farm which bordered the Park. My partner was very angry that I said "sure" and she continued down the trail without me, while I walked a short distance behind the man to get a look at his beautiful farm. As I caught back up to my partner she said that that was incredibly stupid that he could have been the murderer of those 2 women and I could have been killed. Odd situation.
Well, hopefully police interviewed all the surrounding properties….like peoples farms. But next time listen to that womans intuition lol, we tend to have better spidey senses than men do :)
You don’t have to be afraid of anyone just don’t turn your back on someone you do t trust
@@robertgiarrusso9118 hmmmm
You.most certainly DO have to be scared of some people, unless you're a psychopath.
Always listen to your gut.
I know a lot of backpackers frown upon it, but stories like this are why I carry a firearm on trails when I’m alone or with a friend who is also a woman… I like to live my life without having to be afraid that someone will try to take advantage of me because of my looks. I wish it wasn’t that way, but humans are animals too. Animals that tend to be a hell of a lot more dangerous then any bear I could run into.
A wild animals could come after you, you could scary it off, and it will leave. A human knows that you’ve seen it and it has nothing left to lose.
I remember when this happened. I used to go to Shenandoah National Park a lot, hiked the trails, and camped there. I went often by myself but every now and again a friend would join me if their schedule permitted. I never camped anywhere but at the actual main campgrounds or campgrounds near Skyline Drive.
After this story hit we even started to fear camping in a campground if it was only one or two people because the murdered was never caught, so we only went with groups of 6 or more people.
As someone else stated, it is heartbreaking to think that people seeking the solace in God's natural beauty would have been murdered in such a terrible and violent way. I hope that the family can find some peace in the days without them. God Bless the family.
Requiescat in pace.
I remember this well. It really freaked me out because I’d been solo backpacking in Shenandoah the weekend before; different part of the park, but still… I hope someone solves this cold case.
Whelp. Looks like we'll be camping in our backyard...again. Stay safe, folks.
🤣👍
Same ❤
They had a suspect. I think the creeps mother gave him an alibi. I remember when it happened. That is a very popular area. This is one of the reason I don't camp near roads. There were some other bad things that happened on Skyline Drive.
Facts. I never camp near roads
Good luck camping in SNP, then. I feel you, though. I try to camp away from shelters or road junctions as well. Most of my hiking is done in the winter months, though, so it cuts down on a lot of the random weirdos you meet at high-traffic areas.
The same one Kyle mentioned?
What else has happened near Skyline Drive? And that’s a great point about not camping near roads, same as why it’s not as safe to camp/hike through areas close to cities/places with more people = more crime
mother provided alibi's are never used by police - they would need something else too.
This was so shocking and sad when it happened. I was a Forest Service Wilderness Ranger at the time. I quit and became an electrician.
😞
I've seen some videos of the perils you guys face with loggers and poachers. Pretty dangerous job.
I hadn’t heard about this case.
Thank you for using your platform to help this case to not be forgotten
We hadn't heard about most of these crimes. Maybe they could've caught the murderer if social media had been around.
I remember this case very well. So sad and frightening. My husband and I camped at Shenandoah NP with our children every summer and fall for many years, and we have been on most of those trails and overlooks mentioned. We were camping there with friends shortly after this happened. All the campers were talking about it. Condolences to the families 💐
It really would be smart if the feds just started running DNA through the system to try and bring closer to some of these older cases. Especially since we’ve seen it works well since the popularity of DNA tests. Perfect example is the Golden Gate killer.
There are actually whole divisions of the FBI geared towards such things (my future career hopefully). Something people get mixed up is a cold case and a closed case. Case is only closed when it is solved, otherwise it is labeled cold (The distinction that authorities cannot find anymore leads and can't make anymore distinctions), the case is then put somewhere else depending on situation.
However the majority of these are barely looked at due to a continuous flood of cases, DNA tests can take weeks or months even when put on rush.
They don't have the resources for that. There is a backlog of months on stuff that just happened. I don't know I think it might be a good idea for them to hire more people and build more labs but apparently that's not in the budget. We can send a couple hundred billion dollars to Ukraine and God only knows how many billion to the climate change hoax, but we can't protect and take care of our own people over here including Police Services and updated crime labs
@@forensic_bones185and I’m assuming having to run so many tests gets quite expensive too.
Personally, I am hopeful that maybe they can use genealogical forensics at some point and find out who killed these beautiful souls.
They did and they just got him 👍
I live in North Carolina and I remember this story from the news all too well. So heartbreaking.
Crazy that this came up in my recommended feed, as I just read a few minutes ago the FBI has determined who their killer was. He was a serial rapist who died in prison in 2018.
As a woman, I would never do this without being armed. Hard to believe3 such sick sick people exist. My heart goes out to their families
Yeah definitely go armed and with easy access and at the ready with your firearm
I can't own a gun, what else do you recommend
Bear spray. Big stick followed by bigger rock
@@ms.pirate crossbow 😀
8 billion people you are bound too get thousands of sickos
I live in Harrisonburg VA, right around the corner. This story is so tragic & terrifying. I hope they both get justice. Look into Rachel Good who's missing from the area, also supposedly unsolved, but we all know who did it & he got away because he's a town cop.
I live in Rockbridge County Virginia. So many violent crimes happen here and people get away with it because of connections... It's so wrong.
A town cop? Have you tried going federal with it? It might make a difference
@@michaelyunkelo1757 It would be shameful to know that a person is a killer, and not do anything about it. Be discrete but do the right thing. That cop needs a tune up.
@@dianforcier6681 if he did it he deserves more than a tune up!!!
I appreciate you opting to keep the details out, for sharing their story with respect and allowing more people to hear it without the second hand trauma.
Absolutely devastating for these poor women.
Great video
Subbed 💜
thank you for the way you discuss these cases. It's my biggest gripe I have with true crime UA-camrs -they never mention the families, or say anything close to a "rest in peace" about the victims. The way you spoke about them showed that you have empathy and aren't just using their horrific deaths for clicks.
Totally agree. So important to show respect and humanity. Thank you.
Yes they do? At least the ones I watch. Not sure who you're referring to?
@@2Namii sure coffeehouse crime and kendall rae do, but outside of those two, I very rarely hear it. especially when it comes to the super click baity videos.
Thanks for putting this story out there. The good thing about you doing these videos is that you’re a great storyteller and you put these cases back in the spotlight. Which someone needs to do.
I know some people complain that you do both hiking and true crime videos, but hikers go to these areas a lot. Who knows if one of them might pick up a clue because they heard it here.
I am subscribed to your Patreon. It better not be shitty beer, Kyle lol
As lesbian woman I would never step foot in a high traffic trail like that without some firepower. There’s just too many nut jobs looking for vulnerable people to victimize.
How about as a NORMAL woman? Why throw out who you’re attracted to? Many of us WOMEN are more vulnerable than people like you. Otherwise yes, I agree… never travel without your ccp and firearm(s). Two straight girls from Europe went backpacking in Morocco, convinced they were safe. They were both beheaded, and the perpetrators filmed it with their own Facebook live feeds. Not USA, but historically and currently far more normal women get beaten, battered, raped, and murdered, than you lot (alphabet brigade). This is just yet another stark reminder that women are not as powerful as many men, no matter how fit we are, and so it’s a good idea for us all to know how to protect ourselves.
It wasn't a high traffic trail. That's the problem. In 96, the rule was for hikers, campers, etc. to stay out of sight. Of course, that rule has been changed, too late for them. Just recently, a lone female hiker was stabbed to death.
Seriously
Gotta be ready to start blasting.
Same here, girl
This UA-cam has made such a big difference from the beginning. I never knew how dangerous it is to go hiking
This crime sounds like it might be a good candidate for forensic genetic genealogy.
I was thru hiking in 96. I remember the news and the flyers very well. I spent a night in a shelter in the smokies with a sketchy dude. The next day, the rangers came through looking to question him. I always figured he was the killer since then. For no other reason than the vibe he had. Thanks for the update, I Had not heard about the outcome and the fact it's still unsolved. So sad.
Wow! I don’t doubt you could have been right. So glad you came away fine.
When watching True Crime Stories such as this one- I am always struck by the sheer number of male predators.
That is so true but I've watched a lot of rescues and they have almost always been men. Much gratitude and respect for the good guys (and of course girls)
@@Dagrdottir That could be because a lot of female workers ate harassed out of rescue services. so the documentaries suggest.
@@riverdeep399 That's true and I did include girls in my compliment. I wasn't necessarily talking about rescue services I was talking more about people on the street helping people in distress and again I mean there are some good men who shouldn't go unmentioned (and again women also who can be incredibly braven-way to go girls!).
Because predators want easy prey and men have physical strength to go up against another man and women are generally physically weaker. Its why women in crime tend to manipulate instead. Plus, with abortions......it just goes to show women will do the same thing.
More than 7 billion people in the world. There's not a lot it's that you watch crime channels everyday that contain all the cases in history. So u think this happens more than it does. It's like me watching all the suicide one by one of course it's gonna make suicides seem like they are happening to every single person
Wow, this case is so similar to the murders a couple years ago of Kylen and Krystal. They were killed near a remote trail in Moab, Utah at their remote campsite. Personalities and profiles of the victims very similar. They never have caught their killer either. Eerie similarities.
You are correct about the similarities. More correct than you actually realize, because law enforcement did reveal the person they've determined was responsible for ending the couple's lives in the Moab case. He was a man that worked at McDonald's, where one of the women worked. This man was also said to have been hostile at work, and he'd actually been fired, I believe. He too was allegedly agitated about the sexuality of the two women. He'd learned about his coworker not being straight because her partner would occasionally come to visit her at work to have lunch and eat together. When the man left the job, he allegedly went into a downward spiral, as reported by a girlfriend he'd ended a relationship with shortly after his firing. He soon ended his own life. I believe he had struggled with finding work, or something about being unemployed and facing financial struggles had really gotten to him. Along with the likelihood the stress of his crime and potentially being caught must have weighed heavy on him. Law enforcement was able to track cell phone records, and confirmed that he had been in the same place and at the same time of the place and time of the women's death.
So it's eerily similar, actually. I'm quite curious about the state of their bodies in the more recent death. This too, was left out from nearly all media coverage, although I did hear a report, or maybe it was a report of a report (I forgot) about their bodies from the woman who found their bodies. She said they were unclothed from the waist down, we're in a creek, and with contorted bodies. The contorted bodies part is what really strikes me as odd, because this is the type of thing that can happen with chemicals, radiation, etc., not homicide. I have wondered if this was a cover up. There are bodies of water that can release toxic gases, or experience sudden rises in temperature that can easily burn bodies. For some reason with all these National Parks deaths, it seems like law enforcement is much more eager to place blame upon the evil of mankind than the powerful and sometimes unknown or unpredictable power of Mother Nature.
I love these "Trail Mystery" editions. I have followed your channel for quite some time, but these are by far my favorite videos. Great job at giving a rational, logical and experienced backpacker's viewpoint to these tragedies and doing the missing and the missing's families some honor. I'm sure they appreciate them as well as everyone watching. Keep these up!!
i can’t imagine the fear they felt in their last moments :(
Great video and summary of what happened. I read the book written on them, Trailed, and it is fantastic. It really dives deep into what happened and the suspects. Its very dark and complex and I feel deeply for these women and their families who loved them. Based on what I read in the book, it seems more likely that it was the second suspect. The book really delves into his past and connection to the case and I think it makes sense. Its a shame that their families may never know or get closure with this. They deserve better ❤
Why would they not have tested the found hair to his dna ?
Julie was a geologist. ⚒💜
I saw pictures of the crime scene and it was brutal. I don't see how anyone could do that to someone unprovoked.
Out of morbid curiosity, where did you see the pictures? Im really fascinated by this case and it be interesting to get that perspective.
Sounds like a hate fueled act
@@magnagermania9311 one of the detectives that worked the case is a friend of my brother. He showed us. I don't know if there online or not
Big bears can tear a human up brutally
@@susananderson9619 I'm sure the rangers and the police could tell the difference between a bear attack and a murder.
Such evil men in the world. It’s so sad
It's so scary to hear stories like these because it makes me think of when my dad and sister did a section hike of the AT and after the first night my dad backed out because he was too out of shape to keep going so my sister stayed one night by herself to finish the section they'd planned 🤦♀️ If i had known so many people had been attacked throughout the years!!! She wants to do it again and i really don't but id do it with her so she's not alone which is how i came across these videos but apparently two grown women isn't enough! What do we need to feel safe hiking in nature?! Guns, dogs, invisibility cloaks??? 😮💨
Anyone who hikes these isolated trails should always carry bear or pepper spray and I would take a small firearms safety course and get my license to carry as well, better to be safe than sorry!
I am crying. I remember the summer this happened hiking and backpacking in SNP with my partner at the time. I was 22 and we were both female. We didn't know the murder had happened at the time. We learned about it at SNP when we saw the flyers of the 2 women asking for info about the case and we immediately knew that it was a lesbian couple that had been targeted. I remember hiking to a crowded overlook on the A.T. in the park with my partner and an older man came up to us in particular and told us to be careful. It was so overwhelming once we realized it could have been us who were murdered. Of course every murder regardless of the person's identity is horrific but this video brought back the reality of how it feels to know you are more vulnerable out there as a queer woman with your partner and even just as a woman who loves being outdoors alone. I remember the mainstream news reported on this but wouldn't say that the two women were a couple which was so relevant given that that was a likely reason why they were targeted. The lgbtq community at the time immediately understood what happened and had vigils for the women and demanded this be investigated as a possible hate crime. Sometimes I come close to forgeting how dangerous the world is for women, racial, queer, and other minorities but I never really forget it.
Horrific! The world's most dangerous and despicable creatures lurk around on 2 legs. BTW Kyle congrats on the growth of your channel. I started watching your videos on last year's PCT hike. Do you plan to do any big hikes this year?
i was working in the park at that time, at Skyland and Big Meadows. I was an independent contractor doing construction work. The FBI was checking local stores and examining their inventories of duct tape and staples. It was known that the victims were lesbians and many people thought it was a brutal hate crime. The place was a zoo though with law enforcement and news crews everywhere.
I remember thinking maybe it was a hate crime, but that wasn’t public info for quite some time. True, it was ‘96, but how out were they, if at all. Maybe someone on the trail found out and did it. They should use familial DNA. Even if the killer is dead, they can often come up with the correct person. At least it might give the families some sort of explanation, even if it’s twisted.
@@mariekatherine5238 I just came across this story and it reminds me of the women killed recently in Moab, UT
@@erika8627 Some men just can't handle that women can live without them.
Sickens me.
It really is a no-brainer. I always carry something even if I go to the smaller state parks. Over the last 15 years of hiking I have seen some very strange things in our parks and Forest. I used to go hiking for years with my 120 lb dog. I no longer feel safe on the trail by myself. I will only go with my husband and the 120 lb dog and other safety measures. Also, for my personal experience winter hiking is safer. Most people do not want to get out in the cold. Then again I am fortunate it doesn't get that cold in Tennessee.
I recall Bill Bryson mentioning this murder in his book "A walk in the woods". Thanks for the vid. Very informative.
Fantastic book. I go camping a lot and this case really bothered me
Hiking used to be my ultimate sanctuary. My purest joy. I insisted on solo hiking, EVERYWHERE. Yosemite was my Holy Land (3 time employee). Then Cary Stayner slaughtered 4 women in and around Yosemite, the last of whom (Joie Armstrong) lived in Foresta, where my brother in law lived, and whom we had often visited. Not only did this monster destroy 4 women and their families, he shattered my last hope & stronghold in the majesty & purity of nature, and so I hike... no more. The whole point was to get back to the earth and away from people. Instead... hiking in the woods has become a death trap for women (and many men, but mostly women). It's ironic how much I used to fear bears while hiking in Yosemite when the predator all along was a 2-legged maintenance man working @ Cedar Lodge. Instead of bringing "Bear Spray" to the backcountry, they should repackage it as, "Man Spray", and REQUIRE all females to carry it. Please note - I do not hate men. My only child is a male and he is a product of Yosemite. But, there is no mistaking the fact that like a gentleman said in a reply below, man is the most dangerous predator of all. So yeah, trail murders have cured me of hiking and now I live with a broken heart because if it. Rest in Peace, Joie, Carol, Juli, Silvina, Julie, Lollie, and all the women who have been slaughtered by men not only on the trail, but in the world. 🙏🌏🥾🥾🔆
I am sad for you. I have heard of these stories, but I will not give up hiking. The wilderness has always been as dangerous as it is beautiful, with or without crime. It's bad enough that women live under a self-imposed curfew for the entirety of our lives. We don't need to give up any more of our freedom. Hiding yourself away will not magically make you safer, - the wilderness we call cities, towns or suburbs are ironically more dangerous. Crime is much more likely in your neighborhood than on a trail. So it's not necessary to give up what you love. Just be smart, follow common sense, go with other people, and you will be fine. I did a challenging bouldering route and at the top found only women, taking lunch and enjoying the view. It was a beautiful sight.
No, it hasn't. Hundreds of millions of people visit U.S. national parks every year. Murders are so rare they become the stuff of UA-cam videos and documentaries. 58% of wilderness and national park visitors are male, but 81% of all-cause fatalities there are male.
Thank you for this video. Deeply saddened.. I do hope one day justice is served.
My exhusband went to Unity College with Julie. I think he knew Lollie as well. Such a tragic story.
I watched the short on this story. I ended up watching a video of 3 hiker photos with disturbing backstories first and then found this full video of the short. I think it the fastest I ever subscribed to a chanel. Looking forward to watching ur content
This story is heartbreaking. It hits home because I've done a little backpacking, long ago, in Yosemite, Séquoia and Kings Canyon. It's just so great to be out in the nature. We took due measures against bears and scavengers of food of course. The thought of something tragic like this happening was far from our minds. My heart goes out to the families and friends of these ladies. Thank you for the story, albeit truly evil. I say, make the most of your rights to carry!
I was in Luray Virginia and Shenandoah national park that weekend with friends. I signed a visitors log while I was there and later contacted, I think by the FBI, to see if we saw anything, but we didn't.
It’s really a shame that women aren’t free to walk through a park, hike, jog, camp without the potential to be attacked or murdered ~ and we will never be.
A M E N
Like no man has ever been murdered hiking
^ says a man. Preach it, Sadie.
... sadly agree: and we never will be ...
@@SouthernBelleReviews You think a grizzly cares about your pronouns? It sees you as raw hamburger in clothes. A killer sees a defenseless target. Carry protection or take the risks.
I hope more than anything that their final adventure together was like a dream. I hope they had so many amazing final moments and that they felt nothing but love leading up to their horrible and untimely demise. They loved heading into the wilderness and hiding from the world together and i can only imagine how in love they really were. I just hate that you can’t hide from evil anywhere. It’s always somewhere close by.
beautifully well said. i hope their last trip together was wonderful. they seemed like such a lovely couple
Well said ❤
I am intrigued with these cases most importantly I feel you handle the information and story well,. Thank you
Such a terrible thing to have happen. Prayers for the family and friends of both victims.
I hope through DNA they catch the sicko who committed the crime.
Great coverage of this horrible crime. Thank you.
Just found your channel and love it! You'll have 1M subs in no time, let alone 200K! I've seen channels like yours grow exponentially time and time again. As for this heinous crime, I hope that whoever did this is eventually caught. And I hope that for the past 26 or so years, this monster, even though not caught for this particular crime, has been in prison for whatever reason and that every single day of his pathetic is and will continue to be miserable.
I hope they never found him b/c he was eaten by bears soon afterwards. Slowly, starting w/ his feet.
Great presented video. You will be suprised how common it is not to find gear or actual person when missing. Often the person will be found in areas that have been searched already. Unfortunately, there was a serial killer operating in these areas aswell as the Blue Ridge Mountains and Colonial parkway.
Different story, but you should read the book "Death in Big Bend". It is a book written by a park ranger from Big Bend National Park, lots of weird and interesting stories in there.
This is why its very important to pay attention to your surroundings. Also to carry a weapon with you for protection and keep it close to you when sleeping. One more thing, wondering why the dog didn't bark or tried get the attacker.
Maybe he ran away from a huge bear
He was a golden retriever. They tend to be super friendly dogs. Some dogs are suspicious of strangers and some aren't.
Some dogs are useless
Never heard of this case before but it's eerily similar to the recent murders of Kylen Schulte and Crystal Turner in Moab Utah. Another female couple in a romantic relationship found brutally murdered in their remote campsite in 2021. It does have more of a conclusion though as the case was closed even though no arrest was able to be made 😢
That's the case I was thinking of when I saw this.
Eww gay secks 😭
I lived near there at the time, working in a restaurant at bottom of skyline drive. There were a couple other murders that happen in that part of Virginia, it was a very concerning time for local women.
In reference to murders of three young women in Spotsylvania County,
I am very shocked that investigators did not suspect Randall Lee Smith of this crime. He raped and murdered a woman and her boyfriend on AT in 1981. AND HE WAS PAROLED IN 1996 where he went unnoticed until 2008 when he was arrested for the attempted murder of 2 fishermen on the AT.
There is also Gary Hilton who came to mind as a suspect.
Pretty sure he was released in September 1996, this murder occurred in may
Julie & Lollie,
May You Both Rest in Your Power!
And may your families one day receive justice.
#STOPFEMICIDE
How can a person hate people that are just loving one another🌎☀️💙
So frustrating that they can't prove enough to charge somebody with the murders. I hope when the searchers found the dog they took it to safety and it had a good home with either of the families or somebody else.
I was on the AT during that weekend with my 9 yr old son. We were south of the crime area and were questioned by a NP Ranger when returning to our vehicle. They didn't tell us why they were questioning us, and I only found out about the murders while chatting with some area locals. Then I recalled that there was a man heading south on the trail and passed myself and my son as we were heading north to our vehicle. The man seemed strange and my gut feeling was to keep moving north and keep looking back. I always wondered if it was the guy that took those girl's lives.
It has been solved today.
Does anyone else jump when the ads cut in?
I get into the story, then I get jerked back into reality….
That’s how good your story-telling is!
Ill Never Hike or camp in a National Park. Too many missing people.
I live in front royal & hike on skyline drives trails all the time. I’ve done hawksbill 8 times now & if I ever go up there again I’m going to have a thought of these ladies in mind. Always disturbing to hear of these cases so close to home
On all outdoor activities Carry some sort of protection against predators ie 🐻 spray Mace and or a Fire arm
And a whistle
Do you ever look back on your life, your choices and near misses, etc. and wonder "how am I not dead?"
Rice should have been in prison for life with no parole for attempted murder of the Canadian woman
I remember this well. I lived in Sherando, VA in the national forest when this happened. So sad. I hope for their families that this case will be solved. (We had to actually get on a national forest Rd to get to our cabin. I was abit scared for AWHILE after this happened!)
Thank you for not going into complete detail about the murder site. There’s usually a fine balance with this type of content between investigative and some morbid curiosity vs trauma porn and exploitative.
Rest In Power ladies.
I know the ‘how’ - I’m also glad he kept it out. Very respectful of you, Kyle. I hope they find this bastard. Whoever he is.
I actually prefer books about crimes because they share details of the murders, but not in a distasteful way, but in a way that gives more insight into the actual crime and the mindset of the killer.
@Dani K how were they murdered? From my experience reading crime books and having learned psychology, the how is always important to figuring out the who and their mentality
I was working for a gay newspaper when this happened and remember our coverage of it. It was a lot more risky to be a visibly gay couple in the '90s than it is now, and we were pretty certain that they were targeted intentionally. We had to be very careful with stories like this where we would have to make sure that it was okay to identify someone as LGBT and not unintentionally out them.
Er, like it wasn't obvious?
@@AliceSusanHarding What's obvious? Them being gay?
It would certainly embarrass them.
LGBOK TQNOT
@@AliceSusanHarding Right? But even when it seemed obvious to us, the heteronormativity was strong, and closet situations were common, and you had to verify that they were publicly out before reporting.
I remember when this happened and was the same age as they were. It was very horrible and scary. Back then these horrible things were not happening every week like now. I quit camping alone after this. Pretty much quit camping all together...
Unfortunately in recent years I've learned that we seem to have had at least two or more serial killers that either live or travel the park and skyline regularly...I think one has been caught..
That's such a scary thought, I'm sure in past decades it was a hotspot for psychotic murderers, maybe it still is despite the modern rules and regs.
I’ve just been looking forward to another installment of this series! Thanks, Kyle, for reading my mind and posting this haha!
Sorry Julie and Lolie😢💔 hope you guys are resting well and the killer goes straight to the inferno if they havent by now. Probably some old senile fart about to croak if they are alive still. Theres a good chance that you are not their only victims. There are people out there who are so twisted
What kind of monster was capable of such horror? And no warning this low life was around?!
Men
I like how you have continued to do your original content in addition to this great new style of content. Both will help your channel grow for sure in tandem I think. Good stuff man thanks.
With the world having gone completely mad, the appeal of hiking, camping, and solo vanlife is lost on me. People say don't live in fear; but I believe a healthy dose of fear can help keep you alive. The Park rules changing, cell phones & social media, all could've helped to keep those poor women alive. Or, caught the person by now. Simply tragic.
Taking my wife to tackle Mount Marcy and about ten of the other 46ers on a 3 day backpacking trip this weekend. It’s our first multi day backpacking trip and this probably isn’t the best video to watch before leaving 😂 thanks for your other videos tho, they have helped me get ready for this trip immensely!
Bring your Deet bug spray! Black flies will carry you away this time of year in the ADK and this year is VERY bad.
@@davec.3198 awesome thanks for the heads up! I have a bottle but now I’m thinking I’ll bring a backup
@@ByondTheNorm Seriously,,grab a bug net. Have fun! Beautiful weather.
@@davec.3198 now what is the bug net for? For hiking and to go over your face? Totally a newbie so want to make sure I get the right thing
@@ByondTheNorm Yes. A bug net hat. Or misquito net hat. You can pick them up at Walmart for cheap. The black flies will murder you behind your ears and back of your arms when you're hiking.
Off Deep Woods in the green bottle with deet is the only bug spray that works. The deet free stuff is crap for black flies. The ADK black fly season is no joke. I can't stress that enough. I hope your girl doesn't mind bugs. :)
I live 2 hrs from Mt Marcy and come from a long line of hikers in NY. I still avoid hiking in mid-late May because of the flies. I do early spring and put up with the mud and fall hiking.
I didn't hear about this untill I moved out of the Shenandoah. They keep the locals uninformed. Not the first time either...
I'll never set foot in a national park ever.
Not the parks fault 😂
Me either.way too many weird things going on.But in time things will be revealed ⏳⌛️
Great video very interesting to say atleast I can't stand when there unsolved crimes its really sad
Pretty rare for anyone to approach a strangers campsite even if you see it.
Scott Bartlett. I’m not a hiker but I appreciate the knowledge and survival skills many of you hikers have. I kinda wondered if someone was to leave the trail to approach a campsite if the camper would immediately feel like there’s a possible threat. You kinda answered that for me I think. I also wondered how often you encounter other hikers on a huge trail like the AT. Like can you go a whole day without seeing anybody? I know I’ll probably never hike a trail that long myself so I’m just asking in the comment section.
@@gerry1620 I'm not a thru hiker but have been outdoorsy all my life and camped a decent amount, hiked alone etc. Definitely would feel like a threat and I wouldn't approach someone's camp without announcing myself either. It's like walking into someone's living room without knocking, just startling
@@viceb7 Thank you for the reply. I ve only camped in fairly busy overcrowded campgrounds so I haven’t really hiked or camped in isolated places where people are scarse.
@@gerry1620 no problem! I love the hiking comments, everyone is usually friendly 😊 I've been in pretty barren places, and when I was growing up more crowded campsites. I prefer the lower crowded areas for sure but definitely would be more cautious with people when less are around. I've never had any issues though and generally everyone I come across hiking is very kind and out there for the same reasons so that's nice too
It reminds me of murder of Rebecca Wight. She and her girlfriend Claudia Brenner were attacked by man with a firearm. Sadly Rebecca had passed away due to injuries. As a meber of LGBTQ+ community it saddens and terrifies me to the core
Yeah being able to one day make an update on videos like this, saying they caught the person/s would be awesome, I agree 💯
Thanks for not bringing this up when I called from the Skyland Resort 😂
Stay safe Taylor. I love watching your videos.
P.S. I hope their dog was cared for by the dad as a living reminder of his daughter.
Wow.I just can't Imagine the horror one second you're enjoying your moment then suddenly have to face this😢and not even surviving to tell the story .Rip condolences to their families.
They seemed so happy together in those pictures. RIP ladies ❤️
This reminds me of the couple murdered in Moab. At least they feel sure they know who killed those ladies. They too were camping. I pray they someday find this monster. RIP. Blessings to your families.
Glad the dogs alright, ill say it.
Thank you💔
your videos are the best, your documentary skills are top notch, the presentation is very tight, the visuals that go along with your explanations are on point, please keep up the great work. I hope you get enough subscribers that you can do this for a living, because you are definitely good enough to do it professionally, imo
ADK 46er is an organization of hikers who have climbed all forty-six of the traditionally recognized High Peaks of the Adirondack Mountains. They are often referred to just as 46ers.