Winchester 1892 45 ACP: Anvil 113
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- Modified in Argentina for 45 ACP, this 1892 has seen better days. That is, better because we got ahold of it. Completed the engineering and fixed stuff. NOT a tutorial; if you don't have this skill set, do NOT attempt to do this work. Support us: / anvil Thanks.
The Winchester M1892 in .45 ACP - The pistol caliber carbine that you always wanted... but didn't know it at the time.
Right?
I'd love to have one!
Mark, they were converted in the 50's because there was no .44 WCF available in Argentina. They were meant for police use, and I' ve seen cops carrying them up to the early 80's. I had one for a while but it really had a rainbow trajectory. Mine was longer though, kept the 20 inch barrel.
Probably had a rainbow trajectory because it's .45 acp. You can truly lob with that cartridge.
I so much more enjoy videos like this than the “hey let’s shoot 400 lbs of crap with a 50 cal at point blank range “ videos
Amen!
If the Winchester is from 1919, it could be the one used by my great-grandfather. He was a rural police officer in the province of Santa Fe at that time, chasing cattle thieves, criminals, etc. Until he was assassinated in 1927.
Que groso tu bisabuelo chavon! Un orgullo!
@@rogeliofischer3862no habla Espanol
I am from Argentina and I had one of that guns in my hands. There are at least 3 histories about the origin of this carbine. The most popular is that it was rechambered by the workshops of the british railway companies to have the same ammo for the carbine and the pistols colt or ballester molina that were used by the security employees
What a fascinating carbine, I hope we'll get more background one day because a south american ranger with a 1911 and a Winchester feels so right
That looks like it would be an incredibly interesting suppressor host.
If it's of interest to anyone: The name Pez is made up from 3 Letters of the word Pfefferminz (peppermint as this was the first sort of drops they made). So the first, the middle and the end letter of the word. Pez as a company is originates from the same country of as Steyr and Glock and was founded in 1929.
I was just given Grandpa's model 64. The hammer wouldn't hold either. I ended up shaving the same surface, but it took a helluva lot more than a few swipes with a stone.
I suspect at some point the hammer was replaced and nobody thought to check that maybe it needed to be fit. Nice blue, hand worn finish all over - jet black hammer.
Wow thats a very cool mod to a 92. Not going to lie i want one.
SO DO I !
I want one in .454 that won't stretch the receiver. Or keyhole. Damn you Rossi.
@@randymagnum143 There used to be a .454 Casull, as well as a .460 S&W version, ('limited edition'??, not sure. I've seen a couple @ Gunbroker, just a couple times). Quite pricey, though...
@@marknovak8255 good, now I don't feel so bad...
@@hernandovillamarinbuenaven7476 they were a little more expensive than a .45 Colt, but they would quickly swallow a no go headspace gauge. Local pawn shop was selling them because they were 1/2 the price of a Marlin 1894. Tried a .357 and the bore was .004" oversized. The bullets went through the targets sideways, which is to say they "keyholed"
It's nice to see Bruno for a change , I know He is one of the oft unseen hero's in these productions and as always - what can You say - Mark Novak , Master Craftsman Outstanding ! . Thanks Guys . Shoot Straight Stay Safe & Stay Well .
Mark you are a craftsman, i went to school to be a gunsmith you are way beyond.
I’ve been watching you for a while, and I don’t work on firearms at all. However you made an offhand remark once about using hammers: “don’t hit harder, get a heavier hammer” and that advice has served me very well. Thanks.
Exactly. You can't drive a fencepost into the ground with a tack hammer, no matter how hard you swing it.
@@ronkruchten5867 and you can’t peen over a delicate pin with a claw hammer no matter how lightly you swing it. Control while wielding is as important as raw power.
@@sethbracken I'll concede what I think is the gist of your argument; that it's inarguably best to have a correctly-sized tool for any particular job.
Cheers!
I'm from Argentina. Those 1892 carbines where converted to share ammo with Colt and Ballester Molina pistols in provincial police use. Train guards also used 1892 carbines but (I think) in original .44WCF. Lots of that Winchester model where imported here in those times, even FM (Fabricaciones Militares, state-owned ammo factories) manufactured .44WCF ammo.
Due to the shortage of the 44/40, and because the 1911 and clones were used by the police and they had those ammunition, the Winchester 1892 were modified, greetings from Argentina
Another master class. Thanks again from a former weaoon technician in the CAF.
So, I showed a friend my 1938 .30 WCF that still shoots like a dream. I bought it back in 1967 for $85 clams. Oh, says my friend it has a small bit of pitting on the receiver. I replied that it's 87 years old and one tiny bit of pitting can be repaired if it hurts your feelings that much. He offered me $400, and I said that $800 would raise my eyebrows and a Grand in cash would seal the deal. Please do not ask me to sell something that I really do not want to sell unless you are willing to pay for the gun and for changing my mind to sell the rifle in the first place. I shot my first whitetail buck with it back in 1967 a 205lb 7 pointer using reloads I made with a hand operated Lee Loader. This 30WCF is NOT for sale until after I'm dead, thank you very much. Isn't Love Grand!!!!!
I understand sentimental value, but lack of care and maintenance does affect value. I own plenty of surplus rifles and handguns. If I pull a gun apart and there is "patina" beneath the surface, my offer looses at least 25% immediately. Respectfully, I don't think your friend is to blame for a semi-reasonable offer for a rifle that requires expensive ammo.
Im glad brother Mark is one of our fraternity. Had a few of these to do myself.
Very common mod here in Argentina for the 44-40 to be rechambered to 45 acp. Some say that the gun barrell was forced to 45acp by shooting it and forcing it to accept the round and not by tapping the new calibre. All of them were made from 44-40
Always a pleasure to watch a master craftsmen in action.
I've thought this was a winning idea for a while, offer those repop lever guns in the super cheap/popular pistol rounds like 9mm and .45 ACP.
I'd spend so much money on them if someone were to offer them.
I love conversions. I'm trying to find a nearly-destroyed Enfield No4 Mk1 to convert to .410 so I won't feel sacrilegious.
My buddy has one of the newer lever guns in .44 magnum, it’s no where as cheap as 9mm but damn it’s fun. This lever gun is basically an intermediate between the .44 magnum and the .22 LR version.
@@crabmansteve6844 I suspect it would sell enough to profit at the going rate. Low ammo cost/availability is always a selling point. Video shows it must not be a terribly complex conversion, barrel aside it looks to be done all with small parts in a stock receiver.
I'd like to see one in 9mm with a calico-style helical magazine as the fore end
Like your no nonsense approach to your videos. Got 4 model 92's would love to have one in 45 ACP
That barrel extension is screaming to be threaded for a Maxim style silencer. What a neat setup. Somebody contact Rossi.
You always get the cool stuff, now I want one. Great explanation of all the engineering concepts. And yes I too have pondered the pez dispensers and 1911 mags...the follower in both are very similar LOL!
Master Gunsmith Mark Novak's ingenuity, coherent creativity & vast experience, virtually know NO limits!!.
So many thanks & Blessings to Master Mark for sharing such a wealth of all of the above, wisely seasoned with humility!!.
🤗🇺🇲💪🙏🙏🙏🙏
The more of your videos I watch, the more I I want learn this trade. thank you for over 30 minutes of constant fascination.
Take your time, read a lot and DON'T buy a Dremel tool! You can learn to work on firearms but I would recommend it as a hobby or get an FFL and make it a weekend business. It is very difficult to make a living as a gunsmith.
Take Care and best wishes, John
Very informative, my father loves old winchesters and lever actions, lately he's been messing with a few project ones, i think this video can help him out. Thank you Mark
Thank you for sharing your expertise
I want one! A lever in 45 ACP, heck yes.
this man knows what he is doing. that rifle ....(when fixed)turned out to be a very nice little carbine!!
That is a cool pistol caliber carbine. Great caliber, long live the 1911 and Lever Action.
NICE save! The .45 ACP conversion makes good sense because it's the same reason the rifle was originally made to eat the same thing as .45 Colt Single-action Army revolvers: no need to carry two different calibers. I obtained a 2nd-hand Rossi Model 92 in 38/357 and it barely worked...when it worked. I got it for a song because of completely unreliable feeding. The good news was no previous owner had attempted to butcher the action on their kitchen table. I was able to tune it up; it works buttery smooth and slick and even feeds wadcutters. A really fun rifle at the range and handy to carry in the woods.
For anyone seeking more information on this conversion a gentleman who goes by twobit on various forums has been collecting/posting information for a few years. To quote him from one of his posts on gunboards, "What I know so far is that they all started as 44 WCF chambered SRC’s. The rifles were re-chambered for the 45ACP cartridge which apparently was done to match the side arms caliber of the law enforcement departments. Some of the French rifles were subsequently stamped .45 LC since the .45 ACP is considered a “military caliber” and its use is restricted. The re-chambering necessitated altering the tail end of the magazine and the receiver internal parts. The barrel and magazine are shortened to a 16 inch configuration. Sling attachments were added to the left side of the butt stock and the rear barrel band on the fore end. The muzzle end of the barrel was turned down to a smaller diameter so that the barrel band would still fit and the front sight was repositioned.
The serial number range is from 15479 all the way up to 996101. The early guns have very large SN gaps between them but later examples are much closer in numbers and may have been purchased directly from Winchester. The “rack number” stamped on the left side of the receiver does not sequentially follow the SN progression."
Great Video. Cut my teeth on the large frame Winchesters,1886, total rebuild. Ive found that MOST...not all Smiths today fool with Black guns and consider being a Gun Smith just involves Parts changing. I educated myself on rebuilding M1 Garands, Carbines and lever action rifles due to lack of good smiths. Great video Thanks .
So.... This thing is right up my alley!
Nice video, just one point, when using a drill always remember a centre punch is your friend.
Great work. I am frequently amazed by your work. We see too few of people with your capabilities. Thanks for the video.
True example of expert craftsmanship, first time seeing one of your videos. Thoroughly enjoyed it.
Great to have you on board. I have other videos....
Agreed, 92's are much better than 94's. Great video as always.
That thing is just flat out cool.
Love your content my friend
Thanks
My amadeus rossi 92 clone is in 357/38, and I've always been happy with it. But having one in 45acp is appealing!!!!
i'll live with my henry in .357 magnum and my hipoint 4595 for .45 acp.
@@johngraesser4911 how do you like the hi point? I was thinking of gettin one in 45acp for when I carry my 1911. Are mags and parts easy to find?
@@user-ko3vg7fc7o hipoint sells both their mags and the double length mags another company makes, never needed repair parts for mine, if it does break they have a lifetime warrenty, send it back and they will fix it no questions asked. has pic rails for lights and optics. i have been waiting to see if some atf drone tries to define their springy stock as a bump stock. i made it a goal years ago to get a carbine for each pistol caliber i own, .380 and .22 mag are the only ones now i don't yet have a carbine for. one thing i do recommend, stoning the inside of the feed lips to eliminate burrs, it eliminated scratches on the brass, and seems to help with feeding rounds.
@@johngraesser4911 wow! Thanks for the info! What about after market stocks...any available? I've looked but google didnt show any
Yet another superb episode
You inspire me Mark. Amazing to see what you can come up with in the shop, bet it was a tack driver in its day... It is a distinct pleasure to watch you do this. The home gunsmith's Bible.
Didn't just like this episode I loved it I was glued to every aspect of the gun smithing you're excellent...
Thanks, much appreciated
I've really wanted a modern levergun with an integrally suppressed barrel in 45acp. the shorter case length should mean more rounds in a tube, cheaper sub sonic rounds with enough weight and diameter in em to be effective with flat nosed bullets, better suppressor performance and no gas blowback from the manual action, lightweight and handy with a fun to use manual of arms and easy maintenance. hopefully someone makes one
I love the concept
What an awesome project! Mark, your a hell of a guy for re-engineering this thing for Bruno. Love the content fellas, seriously you make my week every time ya post.
I don't know why a company hasn't made a .45 ACP lever gun. I think it's an awesome idea and would love to have one.
You could sure fit a lot of those stubby little rounds in tube
I have seen custom jobs in .45acp and 9mm. both are brilliant. I eventually want to try to build one for .38 short colt. there is a specific firearm im looking for and if I find one, its going to need a lever companion.
Its not uncommon to read of 92s being modified to cycle a shorter round, setting the barrel back, and trimming down .45 colt cases to .45acp length. Boom, a .45acp with a rim and a rifle that will handle it. I really want to get a 92 trapper in 45 colt and do that exact thing. Would be awesome to have a little pack gun that holds 20 rounds lol. 255 grain slug moving nice and slow would pack quite a wallop
have you seen a Timberwolf .45 pump?
@@imbadwrench I have not before
The carbon-based lifeform delivers again!
It's an interesting journey into the guts of one of those critters, loved the Browning/Pez comment, John was a fun boy !!!! Yes they are the answer to a lot of questions. Excellent Video, Lord Novak, Master of the Vise and Bench.
I appreciate your understanding and promotion of safety margins for things like sear engagement. I’ve had to fix a couple old H&Rs this year that had their single sears ground to an absolute hair trigger, got them recut to being able to withstand a sharp rap from a rubber hammer without touching off
Great video as always, Mark
That's fantastic, I'd love one of these at the ranch.
I love it. I would love a 92, in 45 acp, and an S&W 1917. Radical !
And the 32-20, is my favorite cartridge. Great work !!!!
Lever gun carbine in 45ACP….
🤤
Ooooo, new Anvil. Will watch ASAP. Saved for posterity. Thanks!
Yet another informative, entertaining trip down the rabbit hole. Thanks guys.
And remember "Murphy was an optimist".
Outstanding gentlemen. Thank you very much for that fascinating presentation, I love watching you solving an engineering problem.
Speaking of sweeping the shop. I try to keep a clean floor, vacuum before a big project. I have one of those long rectangular roofers “nail picking up magnets” that are on a pole that was on wheels and removed the wheels and now those tiny springs that get away get returned to the bench top where they belong! Ah, not that any escape mind you I’m just saying if… 🙄
There will always be one sproing that attempts to escape.
Always.
I may need to borrow your idea the next time I take my SVT40 apart.
I did that once didn`t sweep the wood chips up and then went work on an old jewelers hammer ,well an important chip came off and dove down to the wood chips and they all looked the same. Nearly went blind looking but about 3 -4 hrs later I found it in the mess of chips. Note to self sweep after every job.
@@ScottKenny1978 It started out when we’d go flying RC models and one screw or bolt would make its break for freedom into the grass. One meet a guy had a magnet that saved the day. Then I got my roof renewed and saw the cleaning crew using the magnet on a pole w wheels and “light bulb.”
It will save you HOURS.
@@gunfisher4661 ugh, that must have been annoying and frustrating.
Micheal Wayne (John Wayne's son) had a Winchester 1892 serial number 21 that was redone into a 45acp also. Just a fyi.
Love the odd Ducks you come by!! OUTSTANDING content Mark. Thank you sir!
The 92 is one of my favorite lever guns, I know its not the best version of lever guns by a long mile, but it is a satisfying weapon with the visible action. My Rossi Puma Carbine is such a fun 357/38 , but finding the appropriate long-eye-relief scope to put on it was a pain.
I'll disagree and say the 1892 is an incredible design because the 1886 was. The modern 1892 is the only levergun design mechanically strong enough to be chambered in 454 Casull without failing.
@@ActionEHamshraershV its major detractor is top-ejection. But otherwise yea, it's a great design.
Tell Bruno to give you something easy for a change! Great info on what was incorrectly done. I don't claim to be a gunsmith, but as a person who was a mechanic for 40 years and ran a lathe to fix issues along the way, I can easily see when a mud-douber was loose on it. Great stuff
I'm glad to see that there is a gun smith that can problem solve (completed the engineering) Great work.
You’re awesome!! Why is it I get to watching your videos and just lose all track of time. Keep them coming my man
Great job as always! Thanks for the knowledge!
That is an impressive little gun
Very cool gun. Love the videos Mark, thanks for taking the time to make the video
12:30 Mark has 3 hands.
A 32-20 to 45 ACP is one unique conversion, well done. Who ever did the original change in calibers must have switched out the barrels too. Like you said in .45 the rifle does provide close in protection.
The 92 was THE quintessential pistol caliber carbine!
You may have a Brazilian re-worked gun. Brazil adopted the S&W 1917 revolver in 1928 (I think?) for their army. Some time in the 1930’s they bought cases of 92’s with shot out bores. They did a lot of work on those guns and re-chambered them to 45 acp for the Cabinerios who were sort of a cross between game wardens and rural police. Rather than buy a few cases of 44 Winchester they did a lot of work to use army issue 45acp. I guess the labour was dirt cheap and ammo was not.
It’s possible that other “southern cone” countries like Argentina may have done the same thing for similar reasons. I know Brazil did it. The tip off is markings that may be stamped on the gun. Brazil is a Portuguese speaking country, most other South American countries like Argentina speak Spanish. Another consideration. In the 1930’s Brazil was dirt poor. Argentina had some of the largest gold reserves in the world at that time. Thus “rich as an argentine” as the saying went in the day. So Argentina tended to buy “new” rather than re-work old guns. In any event this partly explains why 92’s are so scarce here today. A LOT of them went south. Later the Brazilian makers made a copy of the 92 for local use, then exported to the US. Rossi?
That’s what I know, or speculate.
Fox out.
This one is Argentine modified. You can read the inscription "Policía de la Provincia de Santa Fé". The Winchester in general was so popular that many old men in the interior of the country calll any rifle a "Güinche". When I lived in Brazil I saw many, many Winchester 73's, but they were beyond redemption. 1873's in Argentine are quite scarce.
@@robertoservadei4766
Good to know. This one is a 92. And everything I saw in Brazil was a 92. I’m sure that 73’s also got around.
Cool old gun anyway you slice it.
Fox out.
@@MrJento I know. I have two, both in .44 WCF, A 20" barrel carbine and a 24" take-down model. I have searched for a .32-20 for years, but seen nary a one.
Looks really nice with that tune-up!
Working in retail firearms sales I realized most gun owners treat a long gun as just another tool---no more than a pipe wrench--- and though nothing of tossing a long gun into the back of their truck. All of them were amazed when he gun quit working. We had one guy come in with a Remington 870 which had been in the pilot house of a tug boat for over five years. Being in a salt water environment every exposed inch of the gun was a mass of rust. The owner was irritated it would not work.
I saved some small pieces of ironwood root. Makes a great drift for not damaging uncooperative parts. Ife made round ones, flat ones and square ones.
I have a feeling lots of CAS guys are going to be saving this video. Thanks very much sir. I needed a 92 disassembly video to help me through a rossi disassembly. Not exactly what I was looking for but it was good enough.
Now it's time to get the barrel off the receiver so I can fix the god awful crown thats nowhere near concentric.
This was made in argentina. 100% sure for cost savings. Hand made work is cheper than bullets. Even today... they are hundreds of examples of this modifcahions here in argentina... for cheper bullets, or for law requeriments...
Nice video.
No entiendo inglés pero cómo usted lo explica,es un idioma universal.abrazo grande.
My skills at Spanish aren't great, but a rough translation is; "I don't understand English, but how you explain, is a universal language."
@@severussnape3159 Exactly right. Demonstrations show the same thing no matter what the language is.
Great info , I have one of these rifles also stamped Santa Fe.. love it
This looks glorious, thanks Mark
1919 makes me think someone wanted what they wished they 'd had in ww1. high-capacity pcc in a handy format. love it.
Very entertaining and two things I carried one of those 2 oz. Hammers around the machine shop for 40 years and now in my home work shop working on my own guns I can honestly say one of the best tools I use is the Angle/Monkey Piss and it's some great shit. Thank You Jake!
there is so much of this work that is feel and intuition
On your own time, and your own DIME! I love watching you work. Needs a Duke Loop.
I just finished refurbishing an old socket ramrod using three steaming's, the carding wheel, re-bluing, and the non-detergent motor oil. I turned a ramrod that I paid way less than half price for into a museum piece. Thank You Very Much Mark. If you weren't so ugly, I'd marry you!!!!!
Outstanding to have one new today in .45 ACP cool
I just finished cleaning and refinishing a 1892 year model 92 chambered in 44-40 last month, in very similar condition, with similar magazine tube issues. I wish I'd seen this first, would've been a better "learning curve" than the one I experienced. I was considering the steps to modify one to 45 auto, while doing it, something I've wanted for many years, having had one in 44mag back in the seventies. Thanks!
That was pretty cool and you removing a few rounds from the 1911 magazine to load into the carbine reminded me of a video I saw a long time ago of a guy using one to load rounds into the chambers of I think a .45 acp Ruger Vaquero like a speedloader
You are correct. I have used 1911 mags as speed loaders for my Ruger. I would imagine I would get a few grins if I put a mag pouch on the belt with the Vaquaro.
thanks Mark, interesting piece of history there
Thank you Mark for another great video 👍👍
What a unique creature, somewhere in the ether is the 1911 mate to this thing.
Maybe it was intended for 45 auto rim like a 1917 revolver?
Best advice in the whole video: sweep the shop floor before you start taking things apart. Ask me how I know...
I would like to have an enclosed bubble I could enter when disassembling spring-loaded devices.
I like my Marlin Camp Carbine although this would be a nice weapon to have as I like anything chambered in .45 ACP.
Oh, my
I'd love one of those.
Pretty cool little carbine. Matter of fact I once had a Remington Rolling Block action with Santa Fe police marking of Argentina. In a weak moment I sold it. Still kinda mulling it over as a bad idea 😮
Edit: But I picked up a Model 92 circa 1900. Was converted in 1939 to 218 Bee. So. I think I came out a little ahead 😅
the winchester was suplied to many state troop from argentina, since early 1900. the Remington was service gun to army til 1890, when they swift to Mauser. there were loads of both, many remington rechambered to 7,65 and 7,63 (old mausers). The conversion of winchetes to .45 was done sometime between 1930-45, when almost all polices swift to .45. there were many fetherleys (something 12,70 or so) brought by swiss inmigrants, they were sharp shooters so eager that they were conscripted as snipers in the various revolutions and revolts that preceed our actual vote sistem (1880-1904). there are many "winchete" or "palanquero" ("leveler") still floating outside of the legal market in the countryside, even if finding ammo is quite dificult.
Thanks for your videos there always interesting.
You're the coolest guy on the youtubes. Wish we were neighbors just I could watch you work and explain things in person!
I have seen a 92 converted to 45acp by Cuba and have heard of Mexico and Uraguay also doing this
Just gotta say. Just starting episode and i can't wait
Thank you, Mark. Another fine job.