Thanks for letting me know. I still think it's the best buy for the money and the quality is very good as well. Paramount Browns now sell a clone of the AL250G (not listed on their web site last time I looked) but I think the finish is poor in comparison, plus it's more expensive. The FL-550 is a good size and very similar to my CQ9325. I have no intention of changing as it does everything I want it to. I hope you have a good run out of your lathe. Cheers Rob
Rob, They don't seem to take care of the floor stock very well that one had rust (albeit surface) all over it and it was filthy. It may be that social distancing has meant they have taken their eye off the ball but it doesn't fill one with confidence.
Ha Ha. That's typical Paramounts. No bullshit. The one you buy will be in a box from the factory and clean. If things like this offend you then I'm afraid you have a lot to learn about life. Cheers Rob
Michael Linahan I was thinking the same it don’t take much to run a bit of scotch brite over the machine and oil it and clean the thick dirt off lol your right confidence then wavers lol 😂
They are not at all pushy at that store. You generally have to find someone to talk to. They don't even try to spruce up their display items - as you will have noticed. Machinery Disposals just down the road are the same and their lathes are even dustier. The problem is that both stores have large open doorways and being a dusty area it blows in continually and makes a mess. Paramounts used to be way worse than what it is now. Lots of farmers, tradies etc go there and are used to working in dirt, so nobody gives a stuff about it. Cheers Rob
I purchased the next one up as brownies have been out of stock for over a year on the FI550 it cost me $800 over the FI550 that was ok as it came with the stand and heaps more gear 3 AND 4 jaw fixed steady and a traveling steady, the stand is $450 the 550 doesn't come with it, I was waiting and waiting for stock, the only lathe they had in stock the FI610 and it was the only 1 left and im pretty happy I also grabbed the last milling machine I love going to Brownies its like a kid in a lolly shop
Wow, that's good to hear. I drop in occassionally and they always seem low on stock. The FL610 is a good machine and they've stocked it for a VERY long time. I lookerd at that 20 years ago, but went for the next size down. I think you will be happy with it. I'd like to see them bring in some medium sized mills, as that's probably all I need. Yes it's always interesting to browse around there. Now that Redwood Machinery is gone things aren't the same anymore in little old Adelaide. The two other machinery outlets are a non event IMHO. Cheers Rob
Compared to my 10 x 18 " CQ9325 lathe (also from Paramount Browns) the current offering is very similar - same features, same width carriage and cross slide and dovetail dimensions. It is better in some ways - it has a heavier top slide, much heavier change gears, a 10 mm wider bed which is also slightly longer, and the cross slide is longer, with more travel away from centre line. It's not as good in other ways - a smaller Morse 2 tailstock, and full length "T" slots which I think compromise cross slide rigidity. The bed lacks any vertical internal gusseting. The reverse tumbler knob was quite stiff to use compared to the very easy and positive quick change gearbox selector. If this is an issue remains to be seen. From comments received, apparently drive belts are available for this unit through Adelaide belt and Hose. You will need to show them the originals for a match. CBC would probably also have belts. Cheers Rob
Heavily oil your cross slide, put a bar in the tool holder and then put a bit of leverage on your tool post. Watch the oil move in and out on the cross slide dovel tails. THAT'S where most flex will matter/occur as it's the pivot point for all tool leverage. As for "T" slots, 99% of owners would never use them.
Check out the larger size mini lathes. They now come with 38mm spindle bore. BUT, you need to de mount the chuck and make up an adapter to stop the swarf getting into the chuck scroll.
The materiel left between the T-nut channel and the dovetail on the cross-slide is almost non-existent. They even look to finish on the same plane datum, as in the T-nut does down to the same finish height as the dovetail. After you pointed this out in your last video, it's the first thing I've been looking at.
Yes, it's a worry. Absolutely stupid idea. They are all like that. Marketing at it's worst. If you drill and tap into a solid cross slide it has minimal effect. When you "t" slot it you basically destroy it's integrity. Cheers Rob
@@reiniertl Not trying to be a smart a$$, but the only cure is to make your own cross-slide without the Tee-Nut slot. I would use something like a 4041 etc., not a hot/cold roll material. I just can't believe someone in there engineering dept hasn't pointed out this FLAW. I would have thought that the idea of saving money via not machining the "TEE-SLOTS," would win hands down.
@@stanwooddave9758 Wouldn't cast iron be the way to go? I understand that rolled steel of any sort tends to distort once cut, so no good for machine tools.
Just looking online for a similar lathe, but I have concerns over those t slots. Must weaken the cross slide and there is not alot of "meat" left on it. Is it something to worry about Rob or am I just overthinking?
It's a concern, but unfortunately they seem to T slot the cross slide longitudinally on most small to medium Asian lathes these days. The larger ones are usually solid. So go figure. The amount of meat left varies a lot. I did a video on this issue quite a while back. I think it's a stupid practice and probably more marketing than function. The slots will act like hinge points and allow the dovetails to spring/spread a bit. Slotting it crossways like on European lathes is a lot better idea and gets around this issue. Good luck finding a new lathe with a solid cross slide. Cheers Rob
My Optimum TU2506 and the Paramount are 99% identical ! It cost about 25% more than the Paramount in this video. Chose Optimum because of the “German Quality Control” promised by the brand. The casting of the bed, just below the tailstock end has the word Optimum cast in big letters. But other than that, I don’t know how these machines differ....spindle bearings? After working with it for 3 years, I souped it up with a 2hp 3 phase motor and VFD, DRO on the X and Y and haven’t looked back. Took it apart to clean and was shocked to see the poor quality grinds on the “German Quality Controlled” prism and flat slideways under the carriage...it is really bad! All that said, I get good results, and I am happy with the lathe. Thanks for your videos!
cant go wrong with the old hercus lathe still get parts for them there Heavy duty.only thing bore size is a little small and it doesn't have the high rpm
Find one that's not got wear. I have yet to see one in acceptable shape. Everything wears out and the older they are the worse it gets. Throw in that a lot of Hercus were used by industry (only who could afford them) and you soon see that a lot have had a hard time. A new lathe will be accurate, no wear and affordable. End of story. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu 100%True i brought mine 5 years ago. did a complete rebuild it does have some wear still, but turns out parts fine for what I use it for end of the day i'm not a machinist i'm just a hobbyist.
@@Xynudu I have a basically unworn Sheraton 9" but even that needed repair work- I had to fix the broken back gears, and clean all the grease out of the headstock spindle bearings (they are meant to be oiled, but the oil ports resemble grease nipples and were treated as such). It's a great lathe. On the flipside I also have a Hercus 9" that has 0.4mm of wear in the bed. The condition is so bad that I'm currently trying to get it milled as a starting point for further restoration.
Old lathes have a lot of appeal. My old Schaublin was a complete cot case and it took me 18 months to get it to an acceptable state. It's a beautiful machine. But anyone starting out doesn't need those hassles and is much better off buying new. To restore a lathe properly is not just a coat of paint. Look at the small lathes being sold on Gumtree - all old stuff and the excuse is the owner is upgrading. Yeah sure, upgrading to something that actually cuts straight. Once you learn the ropes, THEN you can do the big restore adventure and have an accurate existing lathe to help make it happen. Cheers Rob
It's not a bad lathe, but I found one problem with my Paramount FI610sm which has the same belt driving system as the FI550, the second slow gearing shaft has only a bronze bush (not bearings) and a grease nipple on the end of the shaft, most people would not see and forget to grease on a regular basis...
Hi Rob. You should be getting commissions from Paramount Browns, you sold it so well, I ordered one and received mine two days ago (in MEL). Just starting out and seems good machine to learn on. Thanks for all the good info in your posts.
Interesting place Manny. I see ALL the milling machines are now totally gone. Looks like something is going to happen - maybe some mid sized ones ? Will be watching to see what happens. Cheers Rob
Gday Rob, that’s a very nice lathe, another reason I went for the AL51G was its imperial which is what I prefer to work in, my mill has metric lead screws and I set almost everything with an imperial indicator, after your last video I started thinking about machining a new solid cross slide, might be a good project at some time, thanks for taking the time to show the lathe, now did they try and talk you into buying one??, take care mate, Matty
No they didn't bother me. They are not at all pushy at that store. You generally have to find someone to talk to. They don't even try to spruce up their display items - as you will have noticed. Machinery Disposals just down the road are the same and their lathes are even dustier. The problem is that both stores have large open doorways and being a dusty area it blows in continually and makes a mess. Paramounts used to be way worse than what it is now. Lots of farmers, tradies etc go there and are used to working in dirt, so nobody gives a stuff about it. Cheers Rob
Gday Rob, I've been looking into acquiring a lathe recently to bolster the toy box. Any late mail since this video on a new front runner in the lathe market? Had a look at paramount today and their BC mini lathe didn't tickle my fancy in any way. So back to looking into the slightly larger versions. Any other outlets in Adelaide worth looking at or is Hare and Forbes the next best option? Cheers
Hi Andrew, I agree with you regarding the PB mini lathe. My Sumore was much better quality and also cheaper. The main down sides with mini lathes are the small throat size of the scroll chuck and no quick change gearbox. Going to a 5" chuck sized lathe is much better. I was thinking about lathe prices recently and everything is getting dearer. I will struggle to recommend anything under $2 K soon. I still think the FL-550 is a nice lathe and the right size and configuration. It's the one I would currently buy. I see PB now sell a clone of the H&F AL-250G which looks pretty poorly finished (not shown on their web site). The AL-250G is the business on paper, but heard plenty of serious poor quality issues about them. H&F only has a satellite company in Adelaide at General Tools and they don't have much on display, so I can't comment of what the full H & F offerings are like. You will have to wing it alone on that one. Probably the AL-51G is the next best bang for buck, but it's seriously less lathe than the current PB offering and almost the same price. I would be very wary of buying a Vevor lathe off the internet as I have read bad things about them. It's buyer beware for anything you can't check out personally. Apart from an ocassional lathe at Total Tools there really insn't much else available. I hope this helps. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu Thanks for your input. I will have a bit more of a look at the mini lathe offerings and see if I want to start there. As for Vevor, been bitten there already with other gear. I think I'm still leaning heavily towards a slightly larger option probably the one you mention from PB. Then it's just a matter of financial approval from the boss lady and I'm off and racing. Thanks for your content and insights very interesting viewing.
Take your time and buy the size you would use most. If I could only have one lathe it would be the 10 inch swing jobbie. It's a good allround size and chuck swapping is quite manageable (weight wise). Good luck. Cheers Rob
Hi Rob, very happy with lathe, have been researching in upgrading to quick change tool post but seems confusing, could you advise a QCTP that will suit this later, many thanks in advance...
Hi John, good to hear you like the the lathe. I can't help regarding a suitable QCTP. I have one on the old Schaublin and it works well, but it's not something I would rush out and get as a must have. There are various types out there. I have a piston type and it seems fine to me. You will have to do your own research on this one and see what people think is best. Cheers Rob
Hey Rob could you please do a review on the mini red lathe paramount browns have. I'm really thinking of getting one but would like to see what you think of them. Will only be used for hobby work
I don't have any connection with Paramount Browns, so any review would be adhoc and just my impressions. I also don't have permission to film there. Cheers Rob
Hi Rob, nice video and just in time too. I'm looking to buy my first lathe and tossing up between this and sieg sc4 which is a lot more dearer but seems to be highly recommend by Frank at minilathes. The paramount unit is not in stock though and also wondering about their interstate after sales service experience. Any thoughts ? Thanks
It's your choice, but the Seig does not have a quick change gearbox - an important capability. I personally think that Seig is overpriced Chinese cast iron painted red and nothing special. I would buy the Hare & Forbes TU-2506V in preference if you want to get variable electronic drive. I would not buy Seig. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu red is a lucky colour in China, probably why you'd find a lot of companies using it. The TU-2506V and the SC4 are priced same now, looks like I missed out on the EOFY discounts. It's around $2300 vs $1700 for the paramount FL-550, not sure I care much about the variable speed drive to spend $600 more :( I'll check the optimum lathe out at the local dealer. Thanks for the quick response, appreciate it.
@@Xynudu I had a brief chat with a hare and forbes salesperson and he explained that the AL-250G was a better buy if I was after better choice due to the geared head having higher torque at lower rpm. No discounts at the moment though some upcoming sale in November. I always found it odd that shops don't want to sell now at discount and take cash instead of recommending waiting it our for a future sale date. Anyhow thanks for the pointers.
@@Xynudu after too much hand wringing and head scratching, going to wait it out for the paramount browns FL-550. A good $600-700 cheaper than the Sieg or the Hafco. My only concern is getting the spare parts, but I guess I'll figure that later.
@@Xynudu Got it and finally managed to lift it up to the table with much difficulty. I have some trouble with engaging the fw/rev tumbler as the knob doesn't want to turn easily. Otherwise looks like a decent piece of kit. I'll post an update once I figure out - probably operator error. Thanks for the suggestion. imgur.com/a/SAvVhpe
Hi Rob, Looking to add to this lathe and also purchase a mill, looking at the Sieg SX2.7L hi torque unit (selling at around $2k) any comments suggestions on this unit or a unit i should be considering? also i see it comes with option of R8 or morse tapper and was thinking of selecting morse tapper, would you agree or should i look at R8 ? i don't have any mill tooling so will have to start from scratch, appreciate your thoughts for a novice, many thanks in advance. JA
Hi John, I'm really the wrong person to talk to about milling machines as I've never owned one. I have looked at them fairly thoroughly, as I intend to get one, but space is an issue. The larger ones take up a lot of room. The earlier Seig SX2's had well known electronics problems (motor and circuit board, and were not very rigid as they used an open column. I don't know what the latest ones are like. I think Seig stuff is pretty ordinary and overpriced, and don't have any interest in it. Spindle taper choice is a personal thing. The Morse taper will have to be knocked out to remove it (to fit a drill chuck maybe). The R8 come out more easily from what I've heard. It isn't something you will be doing very often and can be avoided if you use a drill chuck with a straight arbor to mount it in a collet instead. You will need to consider which collets to use as well. Once again it's a personal choice. ER have much greater compression range and are very popular, but 5C are also used a lot. I personally prefer ER for the compression range and easier release. Good mill hunting. Cheers Rob
Hi Fred, I reviewed it way back : ua-cam.com/video/PlJ3_AJydgM/v-deo.html It's much more lathe than the AL320G and AL250G. I've only had positive feedback on it. It was incredible value when under $2K (for many years), but is now more expensive than I think beginners should pay to get a feel for metal work. It's semi industrial standard and definitely not a light weight. Very good solid well featured machine. The fact that Paramounts have sold it for over twenty years, while other models have come and gone says a lot about it. Cheers Rob. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu Thanks Rob I very much appreciate your input on this machine, I see the variety ofwork you do and I trust in your opinion from watching your videos. Its funny I asked the same question on a machining page on Facebook recently and got all sorts of comments say it was rubbish and not accurate enough to perform any decent work on and people saying it was of very poor quality one guy even say he had seen one and it was good for nothing more than polishing components on. I think a lot of people who do this sort of work for a living and have only ever used high end gear probably believe everything that comes out of China is all the same and is rubbish. I like the lathe and it ticks all the boxes for me and I think I will buy one. Once again thanks for your input and your great channel.
Ha Ha, not accurate ? Those guys must be real gooses. Plenty of fine model engines are made on Chinese lathes. Probably the majority of them. That Sumore mini lathe I reviewed recently had TIR of 0.01 mm for both spindle and scroll chuck. LOL how much more accurate do they want it ? Unfortunately forums are mostly old boys clubs full of people living in the past. You see the same idiots saying the same rubbish endlessly. Cheers Rob
Yes, you said it all. Still the one I would buy, The FL-610 has a bigger footprint, and is more heavy duty, but it depends if you need that. Cheers Rob
Hi Dale, not fitted. They don't seem to have them when leadscrew covers are fitted. Probably causes too much loss of tailstock end travel with both. All this stuff is an add/delete option when the seller configure these lathes for import. It all comes down to cost and demand I guess. Cheers Rob
The Grizzly GO602 looks a bit similar, but doesn't have the reverse tumbler. Look at other brands in the same size range and compare specifications. Bed width can vary in 10 inch swing, as does tailstock Morse taper, so get the largest for the money. Cheers Rob.
That Paramount lathe and the optimum unit you showed in your last video are essentially the same machine with the paramount using a different motor and it has a lead screw cover .
xynudu The optimum only has a two speed reduction in the belt system but other than that everything looks the same as the paramount even the dicky little guard on the toolpost !
Yes, if you look at all the Chinese lathes being sold, they are all mix and match using generic components. Not a bad idea as you can configure it to what you want and the price you want. I expect they could get solid cross slides as a cheaper option if they wanted - but those "T" slots are clearly just a marketing gimmick to suck you in. Cheers Rob
xynudu Looking through the owners manual for the optimum they show the version with the ac motor and reduction gearing , it doesn’t have the V on the end of the model number . It would be nice if H&F also offered this model but i suppose they have to stock what they feel will sell best . I would prefer a cross slide that has no slots but with enough meat so i can drill and tap to mount dedicated slotted table on top , the only down side is some loss of swing over the cross slide which might cause a problem line boring bigger items . I have come to the conclusion that Seig is Chinese for shitbox! The C2 looks like the bearing bores are dodgy and this is evident from the wear pattern on the bearing shell - no amount of adjusting will stop the heat build up unless i run it with about a thou of endfloat . Plan b is to convert it to a dedicated grinder using the toolpost grinder i have for it . Running it any faster than 900rpm for anything more than a few minutes turns the chuck into a frying pan!
Yes, I agree, IMO Seig is overpriced Chinese iron of dubious quality. You do get red paint though, so that must make up for the lack of reverse tumbler and QCGB that predominates ;) He He no way I would ever consider buying one. I've seen people have issues with the C2 in forums where the cross slide didn''t clear the dovetail top and binds. LOL. Some people do believe the marketing though. They definitely need to up their features though or the company will go out of business. Cheers Rob
It' is very similar to my old CQ9325 which I bought from Paramount Browns over 20 years ago. They really know their lathes and have sold them since I was a lad. It's a no bullshit company and they give good value for money in my opinion. Backup is zero, so if you can live with that it's the way to go. Cheers Rob
What do you think of this one Rob ?....www.chevpac.co.nz/catalogue/page/lathes-small_MAC_S118_C412/lathe-wm-280v-280-x-700-x-26mm-bore-v-speed-1-phase_L--165280?p=1 I know its a bit more expensive but I dont mind paying a little more if its any good
Hi Pat, That has a similar spec to the Paramount Browns FL-610 which I gave my "Best bang for buck" award to back in 2014, but is longer between centres and quite a bit lighter. Same width bed. It only has a Morse 2 tailstock, but it has electronic speed control. The spec looks OK, if that's the drive system you want. The spindle nose is threaded, which is quite unusual these days. Can you get suitable backing plates for it ? Can you lock the chuck on to allow spindle reverse ? The minimum feed rate is also a bit on the high side. You need to check it out physically, same as any lathe - if possible. You can only compare the specs to another similar lathe and decide if it's for you. Also, ALWAYS do a Google search on any equipment you intend to buy, with the word "problem" included. This can give an idea of any issues that may be out there. Good luck. Cheers Rob
Thanks for the update, I just bought one as my first lathe.
Thanks for letting me know. I still think it's the best buy for the money and the quality is very good as well. Paramount Browns now sell a clone of the AL250G (not listed on their web site last time I looked) but I think the finish is poor in comparison, plus it's more expensive. The FL-550 is a good size and very similar to my CQ9325. I have no intention of changing as it does everything I want it to. I hope you have a good run out of your lathe. Cheers Rob
Rob,
They don't seem to take care of the floor stock very well that one had rust (albeit surface) all over it and it was filthy. It may be that social distancing has meant they have taken their eye off the ball but it doesn't fill one with confidence.
Ha Ha. That's typical Paramounts. No bullshit. The one you buy will be in a box from the factory and clean. If things like this offend you then I'm afraid you have a lot to learn about life. Cheers Rob
Michael Linahan I was thinking the same it don’t take much to run a bit of scotch brite over the machine and oil it and clean the thick dirt off lol your right confidence then wavers lol 😂
They are not at all pushy at that store. You generally have to find someone to talk to. They don't even try to spruce up their display items - as you will have noticed. Machinery Disposals just down the road are the same and their lathes are even dustier. The problem is that both stores have large open doorways and being a dusty area it blows in continually and makes a mess. Paramounts used to be way worse than what it is now. Lots of farmers, tradies etc go there and are used to working in dirt, so nobody gives a stuff about it. Cheers Rob
I purchased the next one up as brownies have been out of stock for over a year on the FI550 it cost me $800 over the FI550 that was ok as it came with the stand and heaps more gear 3 AND 4 jaw fixed steady and a traveling steady, the stand is $450 the 550 doesn't come with it, I was waiting and waiting for stock, the only lathe they had in stock the FI610 and it was the only 1 left and im pretty happy I also grabbed the last milling machine I love going to Brownies its like a kid in a lolly shop
Wow, that's good to hear. I drop in occassionally and they always seem low on stock. The FL610 is a good machine and they've stocked it for a VERY long time. I lookerd at that 20 years ago, but went for the next size down. I think you will be happy with it. I'd like to see them bring in some medium sized mills, as that's probably all I need. Yes it's always interesting to browse around there. Now that Redwood Machinery is gone things aren't the same anymore in little old Adelaide. The two other machinery outlets are a non event IMHO. Cheers Rob
Compared to my 10 x 18 " CQ9325 lathe (also from Paramount Browns) the current offering is very similar - same features, same width carriage and cross slide and dovetail dimensions. It is better in some ways - it has a heavier top slide, much heavier change gears, a 10 mm wider bed which is also slightly longer, and the cross slide is longer, with more travel away from centre line. It's not as good in other ways - a smaller Morse 2 tailstock, and full length "T" slots which I think compromise cross slide rigidity. The bed lacks any vertical internal gusseting. The reverse tumbler knob was quite stiff to use compared to the very easy and positive quick change gearbox selector. If this is an issue remains to be seen.
From comments received, apparently drive belts are available for this unit through Adelaide belt and Hose. You will need to show them the originals for a match. CBC would probably also have belts. Cheers Rob
Heavily oil your cross slide, put a bar in the tool holder and then put a bit of leverage on your tool post. Watch the oil move in and out on the cross slide dovel tails. THAT'S where most flex will matter/occur as it's the pivot point for all tool leverage. As for "T" slots, 99% of owners would never use them.
Check out the larger size mini lathes. They now come with 38mm spindle bore. BUT, you need to de mount the chuck and make up an adapter to stop the swarf getting into the chuck scroll.
The materiel left between the T-nut channel and the dovetail on the cross-slide is almost non-existent. They even look to finish on the same plane datum, as in the T-nut does down to the same finish height as the dovetail. After you pointed this out in your last video, it's the first thing I've been looking at.
Yes, it's a worry. Absolutely stupid idea. They are all like that. Marketing at it's worst. If you drill and tap into a solid cross slide it has minimal effect. When you "t" slot it you basically destroy it's integrity. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu Is there any work around that issue? I guess a properly made cross slide would fix it, but making dovetails and scraping it is no joke.
@@reiniertl Not trying to be a smart a$$, but the only cure is to make your own cross-slide without the Tee-Nut slot. I would use something like a 4041 etc., not a hot/cold roll material. I just can't believe someone in there engineering dept hasn't pointed out this FLAW. I would have thought that the idea of saving money via not machining the "TEE-SLOTS," would win hands down.
Totally agree.
@@stanwooddave9758 Wouldn't cast iron be the way to go? I understand that rolled steel of any sort tends to distort once cut, so no good for machine tools.
Nice looking Lathe , but I wouldn’t trade my 1950 Logan for it . Thanks for the look see .
Fair enough!
Thanks Rob, great to see it ,
Interesting stroll through part of the store. "Unique" is a good way to describe it ;) Total man trap. Cheers Rob
Just looking online for a similar lathe, but I have concerns over those t slots. Must weaken the cross slide and there is not alot of "meat" left on it. Is it something to worry about Rob or am I just overthinking?
It's a concern, but unfortunately they seem to T slot the cross slide longitudinally on most small to medium Asian lathes these days. The larger ones are usually solid. So go figure. The amount of meat left varies a lot. I did a video on this issue quite a while back. I think it's a stupid practice and probably more marketing than function. The slots will act like hinge points and allow the dovetails to spring/spread a bit. Slotting it crossways like on European lathes is a lot better idea and gets around this issue. Good luck finding a new lathe with a solid cross slide. Cheers Rob
Does look a fair deal Rob - for sure a great "1st lathe" for someone:)
My Optimum TU2506 and the Paramount are 99% identical !
It cost about 25% more than the Paramount in this video. Chose Optimum because of the “German Quality Control” promised by the brand. The casting of the bed, just below the tailstock end has the word Optimum cast in big letters. But other than that, I don’t know how these machines differ....spindle bearings?
After working with it for 3 years, I souped it up with a 2hp 3 phase motor and VFD, DRO on the X and Y and haven’t looked back. Took it apart to clean and was shocked to see the poor quality grinds on the “German Quality Controlled” prism and flat slideways under the carriage...it is really bad!
All that said, I get good results, and I am happy with the lathe.
Thanks for your videos!
"German Quality" for a Chinese lathe is pretty unbelievable IMHO. Cheers Rob
cant go wrong with the old hercus lathe still get parts for them there Heavy duty.only thing bore size is a little small and it doesn't have the high rpm
Find one that's not got wear. I have yet to see one in acceptable shape. Everything wears out and the older they are the worse it gets. Throw in that a lot of Hercus were used by industry (only who could afford them) and you soon see that a lot have had a hard time. A new lathe will be accurate, no wear and affordable. End of story. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu 100%True i brought mine 5 years ago. did a complete rebuild it does have some wear still, but turns out parts fine for what I use it for end of the day i'm not a machinist i'm just a hobbyist.
@@Xynudu I have a basically unworn Sheraton 9" but even that needed repair work- I had to fix the broken back gears, and clean all the grease out of the headstock spindle bearings (they are meant to be oiled, but the oil ports resemble grease nipples and were treated as such). It's a great lathe.
On the flipside I also have a Hercus 9" that has 0.4mm of wear in the bed. The condition is so bad that I'm currently trying to get it milled as a starting point for further restoration.
Old lathes have a lot of appeal. My old Schaublin was a complete cot case and it took me 18 months to get it to an acceptable state. It's a beautiful machine. But anyone starting out doesn't need those hassles and is much better off buying new. To restore a lathe properly is not just a coat of paint. Look at the small lathes being sold on Gumtree - all old stuff and the excuse is the owner is upgrading. Yeah sure, upgrading to something that actually cuts straight. Once you learn the ropes, THEN you can do the big restore adventure and have an accurate existing lathe to help make it happen. Cheers Rob
You know you want it, life is to short to hold back. Pay the man and take it home. Every shop needs more than one lathe.
It's a disease :)
It's not a bad lathe, but I found one problem with my Paramount FI610sm which has the same belt driving system as the FI550, the second slow gearing shaft has only a bronze bush (not bearings) and a grease nipple on the end of the shaft, most people would not see and forget to grease on a regular basis...
Good to get the feedback. Cheers Rob
Hi Rob.
You should be getting commissions from Paramount Browns, you sold it so well, I ordered one and received mine two days ago (in MEL). Just starting out and seems good machine to learn on. Thanks for all the good info in your posts.
Thanks for the info. I hope it goes well. Cheers Rob
Paramount browns has to be one of my favorite stores
Interesting place Manny. I see ALL the milling machines are now totally gone. Looks like something is going to happen - maybe some mid sized ones ? Will be watching to see what happens. Cheers Rob
Gday Rob, that’s a very nice lathe, another reason I went for the AL51G was its imperial which is what I prefer to work in, my mill has metric lead screws and I set almost everything with an imperial indicator, after your last video I started thinking about machining a new solid cross slide, might be a good project at some time, thanks for taking the time to show the lathe, now did they try and talk you into buying one??, take care mate, Matty
No they didn't bother me. They are not at all pushy at that store. You generally have to find someone to talk to. They don't even try to spruce up their display items - as you will have noticed. Machinery Disposals just down the road are the same and their lathes are even dustier. The problem is that both stores have large open doorways and being a dusty area it blows in continually and makes a mess. Paramounts used to be way worse than what it is now. Lots of farmers, tradies etc go there and are used to working in dirt, so nobody gives a stuff about it. Cheers Rob
Gday Rob, I've been looking into acquiring a lathe recently to bolster the toy box. Any late mail since this video on a new front runner in the lathe market? Had a look at paramount today and their BC mini lathe didn't tickle my fancy in any way. So back to looking into the slightly larger versions. Any other outlets in Adelaide worth looking at or is Hare and Forbes the next best option?
Cheers
Hi Andrew, I agree with you regarding the PB mini lathe. My Sumore was much better quality and also cheaper. The main down sides with mini lathes are the small throat size of the scroll chuck and no quick change gearbox. Going to a 5" chuck sized lathe is much better.
I was thinking about lathe prices recently and everything is getting dearer. I will struggle to recommend anything under $2 K soon. I still think the FL-550 is a nice lathe and the right size and configuration. It's the one I would currently buy.
I see PB now sell a clone of the H&F AL-250G which looks pretty poorly finished (not shown on their web site). The AL-250G is the business on paper, but heard plenty of serious poor quality issues about them. H&F only has a satellite company in Adelaide at General Tools and they don't have much on display, so I can't comment of what the full H & F offerings are like. You will have to wing it alone on that one. Probably the AL-51G is the next best bang for buck, but it's seriously less lathe than the current PB offering and almost the same price.
I would be very wary of buying a Vevor lathe off the internet as I have read bad things about them. It's buyer beware for anything you can't check out personally.
Apart from an ocassional lathe at Total Tools there really insn't much else available.
I hope this helps.
Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu Thanks for your input. I will have a bit more of a look at the mini lathe offerings and see if I want to start there. As for Vevor, been bitten there already with other gear.
I think I'm still leaning heavily towards a slightly larger option probably the one you mention from PB.
Then it's just a matter of financial approval from the boss lady and I'm off and racing.
Thanks for your content and insights very interesting viewing.
Take your time and buy the size you would use most. If I could only have one lathe it would be the 10 inch swing jobbie. It's a good allround size and chuck swapping is quite manageable (weight wise). Good luck. Cheers Rob
Hi Rob, very happy with lathe, have been researching in upgrading to quick change tool post but seems confusing, could you advise a QCTP that will suit this later, many thanks in advance...
Hi John, good to hear you like the the lathe. I can't help regarding a suitable QCTP. I have one on the old Schaublin and it works well, but it's not something I would rush out and get as a must have. There are various types out there. I have a piston type and it seems fine to me. You will have to do your own research on this one and see what people think is best. Cheers Rob
Hey Rob could you please do a review on the mini red lathe paramount browns have. I'm really thinking of getting one but would like to see what you think of them. Will only be used for hobby work
I don't have any connection with Paramount Browns, so any review would be adhoc and just my impressions. I also don't have permission to film there. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu cheers anyway mate really enjoying your channel and content you post.
Thanks, I try and keep it interesting. Cheers Rob
I think I'd buy that for that price if those were available here. Seems fairly sturdy for size.
Hi Rob, nice video and just in time too. I'm looking to buy my first lathe and tossing up between this and sieg sc4 which is a lot more dearer but seems to be highly recommend by Frank at minilathes.
The paramount unit is not in stock though and also wondering about their interstate after sales service experience.
Any thoughts ?
Thanks
It's your choice, but the Seig does not have a quick change gearbox - an important capability. I personally think that Seig is overpriced Chinese cast iron painted red and nothing special. I would buy the Hare & Forbes TU-2506V in preference if you want to get variable electronic drive. I would not buy Seig. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu red is a lucky colour in China, probably why you'd find a lot of companies using it.
The TU-2506V and the SC4 are priced same now, looks like I missed out on the EOFY discounts. It's around $2300 vs $1700 for the paramount FL-550, not sure I care much about the variable speed drive to spend $600 more :(
I'll check the optimum lathe out at the local dealer.
Thanks for the quick response, appreciate it.
@@Xynudu I had a brief chat with a hare and forbes salesperson and he explained that the AL-250G was a better buy if I was after better choice due to the geared head having higher torque at lower rpm. No discounts at the moment though some upcoming sale in November.
I always found it odd that shops don't want to sell now at discount and take cash instead of recommending waiting it our for a future sale date.
Anyhow thanks for the pointers.
@@Xynudu after too much hand wringing and head scratching, going to wait it out for the paramount browns FL-550. A good $600-700 cheaper than the Sieg or the Hafco. My only concern is getting the spare parts, but I guess I'll figure that later.
@@Xynudu Got it and finally managed to lift it up to the table with much difficulty. I have some trouble with engaging the fw/rev tumbler as the knob doesn't want to turn easily. Otherwise looks like a decent piece of kit.
I'll post an update once I figure out - probably operator error. Thanks for the suggestion.
imgur.com/a/SAvVhpe
Hi Rob, Looking to add to this lathe and also purchase a mill, looking at the Sieg SX2.7L hi torque unit (selling at around $2k) any comments suggestions on this unit or a unit i should be considering? also i see it comes with option of R8 or morse tapper and was thinking of selecting morse tapper, would you agree or should i look at R8 ? i don't have any mill tooling so will have to start from scratch, appreciate your thoughts for a novice, many thanks in advance.
JA
Hi John, I'm really the wrong person to talk to about milling machines as I've never owned one. I have looked at them fairly thoroughly, as I intend to get one, but space is an issue. The larger ones take up a lot of room.
The earlier Seig SX2's had well known electronics problems (motor and circuit board, and were not very rigid as they used an open column. I don't know what the latest ones are like. I think Seig stuff is pretty ordinary and overpriced, and don't have any interest in it.
Spindle taper choice is a personal thing. The Morse taper will have to be knocked out to remove it (to fit a drill chuck maybe). The R8 come out more easily from what I've heard. It isn't something you will be doing very often and can be avoided if you use a drill chuck with a straight arbor to mount it in a collet instead.
You will need to consider which collets to use as well. Once again it's a personal choice. ER have much greater compression range and are very popular, but 5C are also used a lot. I personally prefer ER for the compression range and easier release.
Good mill hunting.
Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu Hi Rob, highly respect your opinion hence why i asked, thank you, all the best.
You're welcome John.
Cheers Rob
Hi Rob what are your thoughts on the Paramount Browns FI-610 lathe
Hi Fred, I reviewed it way back : ua-cam.com/video/PlJ3_AJydgM/v-deo.html
It's much more lathe than the AL320G and AL250G. I've only had positive feedback on it. It was incredible value when under $2K (for many years), but is now more expensive than I think beginners should pay to get a feel for metal work.
It's semi industrial standard and definitely not a light weight. Very good solid well featured machine.
The fact that Paramounts have sold it for over twenty years, while other models have come and gone says a lot about it.
Cheers Rob.
Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu Thanks Rob I very much appreciate your input on this machine, I see the variety ofwork you do and I trust in your opinion from watching your videos. Its funny I asked the same question on a machining page on Facebook recently and got all sorts of comments say it was rubbish and not accurate enough to perform any decent work on and people saying it was of very poor quality one guy even say he had seen one and it was good for nothing more than polishing components on. I think a lot of people who do this sort of work for a living and have only ever used high end gear probably believe everything that comes out of China is all the same and is rubbish. I like the lathe and it ticks all the boxes for me and I think I will buy one. Once again thanks for your input and your great channel.
Ha Ha, not accurate ? Those guys must be real gooses. Plenty of fine model engines are made on Chinese lathes. Probably the majority of them. That Sumore mini lathe I reviewed recently had TIR of 0.01 mm for both spindle and scroll chuck. LOL how much more accurate do they want it ? Unfortunately forums are mostly old boys clubs full of people living in the past. You see the same idiots saying the same rubbish endlessly. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu lol, this is my FI-550. Plenty good for most work. ua-cam.com/video/Q2wom3FXJqA/v-deo.html
Yes, you said it all. Still the one I would buy, The FL-610 has a bigger footprint, and is more heavy duty, but it depends if you need that. Cheers Rob
I did not see a thread-chasing dial..and I've noticed that on a few of the newer lathes..am I just missing it?
Hi Dale, not fitted. They don't seem to have them when leadscrew covers are fitted. Probably causes too much loss of tailstock end travel with both. All this stuff is an add/delete option when the seller configure these lathes for import. It all comes down to cost and demand I guess. Cheers Rob
So when do they deliver it? 😁
Hi thanks for vidéo , need to order for one similar lathe , Can you help me ? Thanks for urgent reply.
What would be the equivalent to this lathe in America thank you.
The Grizzly GO602 looks a bit similar, but doesn't have the reverse tumbler. Look at other brands in the same size range and compare specifications. Bed width can vary in 10 inch swing, as does tailstock Morse taper, so get the largest for the money. Cheers Rob.
@@Xynudu thank you
Geez, you really didn’t like the gap in the cross slide😁
What gap is that ? I don't like the "T" slots if that's what you mean. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu You were giving it the finger
Yes, I guess I was ;)
That Paramount lathe and the optimum unit you showed in your last video are essentially the same machine with the paramount using a different motor and it has a lead screw cover .
Not really. The Paramount lathe uses reduction gearing. It would absolutely kill the Hare and Forbes unit for spindle torque. Cheers Rob
xynudu
The optimum only has a two speed reduction in the belt system but other than that everything looks the same as the paramount even the dicky little guard on the toolpost !
Yes, if you look at all the Chinese lathes being sold, they are all mix and match using generic components. Not a bad idea as you can configure it to what you want and the price you want. I expect they could get solid cross slides as a cheaper option if they wanted - but those "T" slots are clearly just a marketing gimmick to suck you in. Cheers Rob
xynudu
Looking through the owners manual for the optimum they show the version with the ac motor and reduction gearing , it doesn’t have the V on the end of the model number .
It would be nice if H&F also offered this model but i suppose they have to stock what they feel will sell best .
I would prefer a cross slide that has no slots but with enough meat so i can drill and tap to mount dedicated slotted table on top , the only down side is some loss of swing over the cross slide which might cause a problem line boring bigger items .
I have come to the conclusion that Seig is Chinese for shitbox! The C2 looks like the bearing bores are dodgy and this is evident from the wear pattern on the bearing shell - no amount of adjusting will stop the heat build up unless i run it with about a thou of endfloat . Plan b is to convert it to a dedicated grinder using the toolpost grinder i have for it . Running it any faster than 900rpm for anything more than a few minutes turns the chuck into a frying pan!
Yes, I agree, IMO Seig is overpriced Chinese iron of dubious quality. You do get red paint though, so that must make up for the lack of reverse tumbler and QCGB that predominates ;) He He no way I would ever consider buying one. I've seen people have issues with the C2 in forums where the cross slide didn''t clear the dovetail top and binds. LOL. Some people do believe the marketing though. They definitely need to up their features though or the company will go out of business. Cheers Rob
Crikeys mate, $1700 that will do me.
It' is very similar to my old CQ9325 which I bought from Paramount Browns over 20 years ago. They really know their lathes and have sold them since I was a lad. It's a no bullshit company and they give good value for money in my opinion. Backup is zero, so if you can live with that it's the way to go. Cheers Rob
the sign of a poor machine is how easily it rusts, I found my Cazenueve 550x 2000 from 1978 does not rust, I'm on the coadst
What a lot of nonsense - they are all made out of cast iron and steel. Any uncoated metal areas will rust regardless of who made it. LOL
Grizzly 9729, $2500 us
What do you think of this one Rob ?....www.chevpac.co.nz/catalogue/page/lathes-small_MAC_S118_C412/lathe-wm-280v-280-x-700-x-26mm-bore-v-speed-1-phase_L--165280?p=1
I know its a bit more expensive but I dont mind paying a little more if its any good
Hi Pat,
That has a similar spec to the Paramount Browns FL-610 which I gave my "Best bang for buck" award to back in 2014, but is longer between centres and quite a bit lighter. Same width bed. It only has a Morse 2 tailstock, but it has electronic speed control. The spec looks OK, if that's the drive system you want.
The spindle nose is threaded, which is quite unusual these days. Can you get suitable backing plates for it ? Can you lock the chuck on to allow spindle reverse ? The minimum feed rate is also a bit on the high side.
You need to check it out physically, same as any lathe - if possible. You can only compare the specs to another similar lathe and decide if it's for you. Also, ALWAYS do a Google search on any equipment you intend to buy, with the word "problem" included. This can give an idea of any issues that may be out there.
Good luck.
Cheers Rob
Looks pretty rusty for being new.
That's dust, not rust.
@@Xynudu couldn't tell looked like rust. Thanks for clearing that up