This 64th symphony of Haydn it starts in a pianissimo way, followed by an explosion, contrary to what happens in most of his others symphonies. The melody of the Largo is very beautiful where there are some short breaks with some frequency. We think the movement is just for strings but the wind instruments make their appearance in the middle of the way. The atmosphere changes completely with the joy and grace conveyed by the Minuet, while the final Presto takes the form of a rondo. Haydn’s music is astonishing for its elegance, grandeur and subtlety at the same time. This composer, particularly in the symphonies he composed, was one of the greatest talents that ever existed. Viva Haydn and his wonderful music. The orchestra and its direction are superb. Thanks for the unforgettable moments of pleasure that this recording gives us.
You are quite right about the originality, flair, and invention to be found in this extraordinary symphony; it is also somewhat eccentric, wayward, and mysterious, it does not follow the norms, is ambiguous in tonality in the first movement second subject (is it C major or E minor ?) and elsewhere, and lots more. What however I simply cannot understand however is having clearly understood and appreciated the symphony for what it is, you have added the word ‘…wit’ (that old Haydn caricature) to your description of a symphony that to my ears is devoid entirely of wit, humour, joking, and all the other tired old Haydn cliches. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to what I am missing.
Glad to expand on this. I wholly agree with your statement, “eccentric, wayward, and mysterious”. But I detect a sense of humor. At 10:23, for example, he pauses his statement in the middle, as if to say, “You thought you had me, but I’m never going to become predictable and boring”. Along with his surprise endings of symphonies, as in The Bear, he loves to fool us for fun. I wasn’t aware that anyone else ever described him as being witty. I enjoy the fact that two years later, someone like you is still listening. UA-cam is a vast treasure house.
Michael Steinberg actually included this symphony in the Haydn section of The Symphony: A Listener’s Guide. It is a very underrated work, and its inclusion there is a testament to the special quality of its ideas.
Yes, exactly, even though he taught Mozart, who grew to love him so much that he called him "Papa". There's a heavenly Pantheon where they receive 100 times the recognition they ever experienced on earth.
@@riverwildcat1 The friendship between Mozart was extraordinary, and Constanza Mozart said that her husband said that Haydn was his best friend, a term Mozart used himself in the dedication to him of the six ‘Haydn’ quartets: ‘Al mio caro Amico Haydn’ ‘…il quale per buona sorte, era di più il suo migliore Amico’ (‘…his best friend’) ‘…ed Amico mio carissimo’ ‘Tu stesso Amico carissimo’. There is more, ending with Mozart signing himself: ‘il tuo Sincerissimo Amico W A Mozart Vienna il p.mo Settembre 1785’ Haydn’s unequivocal comments about Mozart are too well known to be repeated here. The love you rightly mention was mutual. Be careful with the ‘Papa’* bit which in English has a slightly pejorative even derogatory undertone; it diminishes I think the friendship and it does not quite mean what it does in German, Italian and French. The term was already being used as one of disrespect, ridicule, and fun amongst Beethoven’s circle,* * though I understand that is not how Mozart - nor yourself - were/are using it. You will note also that from the quotations above, Mozart is being rather more respectful to Haydn than are many today who mis-use the over-familiar ‘Papa’, something which would have appalled Mozart. It has become slightly patronising and gives a whiff of a cosy, avuncular, fireside-chat image to a relationship that was dynamic, unique, and progressive; ‘Papa’ gives a very misleading image of the only living composer Mozart felt could challenge and stimulate him musically, and the pair of them had almost a symbiotic relationship in terms of the development of the Classical style, something diminished by the irrelevant and silly sobriquet ‘Papa’ applied to one of them. Haydn never taught Mozart - I am always astonished where people find such nonsense; that said, Mozart did learn a lot from Haydn in most areas of music, even including opera* * * where Haydn declared the younger man to be absolutely supreme. Just a final comment on your interesting point about recognition: you’re right in relation to Mozart, that during his own time, very few actually recognised him for what he was, Haydn most obviously being one who did, but he was one of very few (Beethoven in the next generation was more typical of the wider appreciation of Mozart that began to develop soon after his death). Haydn in contrast was not short of recognition in his own lifetime, even before the two trips to England; post-England, he was virtually an international superstar and the most famous composer of the age (one of the things that irked Beethoven, and provoked a number of his very silly and tetchy comments about him). Today, the positions of Mozart and Haydn are almost exactly reversed. * Papa of course looks particularly silly to anyone who understands Italian - the two composers’ shared musical language - as it means Pope. * * If you put it into English and refer to ‘…old Father Haydn’, you get a better sense of my problem with the modern fad that appears all over UA-cam for ‘Papa Haydn’. * * * Mozart would have been fascinated by the very complex and musically advanced end-of-act finales of La fedeltà premiata (1780) for example when he would have heard it in Vienna in 1784.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 Thank you for taking the time and care to illuminate these two great artists so thoroughly. I can see how inadequate “papa” is as a descriptor. Well done.
Haydn supposedly asked for the slow movement of his Symphony No. 44 in E minor to be played at his funeral. IMHO the slow movement of this symphony would have been a much better choice - such a fine and exquisite piece of music as only a classical master could have written.
Il significato delle parole che Haydn appose in calce alla partitura, non è chiaro, trattandosi forse di un riferimento ad una rappresentazione teatrale di cui non ci è pervenuto l'argomento. La sinfonia avrebbe dovuto in questo caso servire da musica di scena, ma nulla autorizza a individuare in essa, più che in altre opere dello stesso periodo, intendimenti illustrativi. Non resta che interpretare il motto latino nel senso letterale: Haydn si incammina per una strada nuova, impegna le sue capacità di espressione in una direzione diversa da quella seguita costantemente durante lo Sturm und Drang. Al momento romantico succede una fase di riflessione e di consolidamento stilistico, fase in cui questa sinfonia si inserisce con discrezione, apparentemente ancora legata ad un linguaggio impetuoso, in realtà già partecipe di un equilibrio superiore. LDC 1:47
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
This 64th symphony of Haydn it starts in a pianissimo way, followed by an explosion, contrary to what happens in most of his others symphonies. The melody of the Largo is very beautiful where there are some short breaks with some frequency. We think the movement is just for strings but the wind instruments make their appearance in the middle of the way. The atmosphere changes completely with the joy and grace conveyed by the Minuet, while the final Presto takes the form of a rondo. Haydn’s music is astonishing for its elegance, grandeur and subtlety at the same time. This composer, particularly in the symphonies he composed, was one of the greatest talents that ever existed. Viva Haydn and his wonderful music. The orchestra and its direction are superb. Thanks for the unforgettable moments of pleasure that this recording gives us.
Listening to this on UK radio station right now. Beautiful. From Bradford, England.
Enormously entertaining and ingenious. Haydn's genius is truly unique, and Christopher Hogwood delivers it beautifully.
So original and inventive; Haydn does it all with wit and flair. Great performance by Hogwood, per usual, and much appreciated!
You are quite right about the originality, flair, and invention to be found in this extraordinary symphony; it is also somewhat eccentric, wayward, and mysterious, it does not follow the norms, is ambiguous in tonality in the first movement second subject (is it C major or E minor ?) and elsewhere, and lots more.
What however I simply cannot understand however is having clearly understood and appreciated the symphony for what it is, you have added the word ‘…wit’ (that old Haydn caricature) to your description of a symphony that to my ears is devoid entirely of wit, humour, joking, and all the other tired old Haydn cliches.
Perhaps you could enlighten me as to what I am missing.
Glad to expand on this. I wholly agree with your statement, “eccentric, wayward, and mysterious”. But I detect a sense of humor. At 10:23, for example, he pauses his statement in the middle, as if to say, “You thought you had me, but I’m never going to become predictable and boring”. Along with his surprise endings of symphonies, as in The Bear, he loves to fool us for fun. I wasn’t aware that anyone else ever described him as being witty.
I enjoy the fact that two years later, someone like you is still listening. UA-cam is a vast treasure house.
Michael Steinberg actually included this symphony in the Haydn section of The Symphony: A Listener’s Guide. It is a very underrated work, and its inclusion there is a testament to the special quality of its ideas.
Such an underrated symphony!
Yes, exactly, even though he taught Mozart, who grew to love him so much that he called him "Papa". There's a heavenly Pantheon where they receive 100 times the recognition they ever experienced on earth.
Yes, that's right. As well as quite all things which are noble, fine and sophisticated - they are mostly underrated. Typical! :-/
@@riverwildcat1
The friendship between Mozart was extraordinary, and Constanza Mozart said that her husband said that Haydn was his best friend, a term Mozart used himself in the dedication to him of the six ‘Haydn’ quartets:
‘Al mio caro Amico Haydn’
‘…il quale per buona sorte, era di più il suo migliore Amico’ (‘…his best friend’)
‘…ed Amico mio carissimo’
‘Tu stesso Amico carissimo’.
There is more, ending with Mozart signing himself:
‘il tuo Sincerissimo Amico
W A Mozart
Vienna il p.mo Settembre 1785’
Haydn’s unequivocal comments about Mozart are too well known to be repeated here.
The love you rightly mention was mutual.
Be careful with the ‘Papa’* bit which in English has a slightly pejorative even derogatory undertone; it diminishes I think the friendship and it does not quite mean what it does in German, Italian and French.
The term was already being used as one of disrespect, ridicule, and fun amongst Beethoven’s circle,* * though I understand that is not how Mozart - nor yourself - were/are using it.
You will note also that from the quotations above, Mozart is being rather more respectful to Haydn than are many today who mis-use the over-familiar ‘Papa’, something which would have appalled Mozart.
It has become slightly patronising and gives a whiff of a cosy, avuncular, fireside-chat image to a relationship that was dynamic, unique, and progressive; ‘Papa’ gives a very misleading image of the only living composer Mozart felt could challenge and stimulate him musically, and the pair of them had almost a symbiotic relationship in terms of the development of the Classical style, something diminished by the irrelevant and silly sobriquet ‘Papa’ applied to one of them.
Haydn never taught Mozart - I am always astonished where people find such nonsense; that said, Mozart did learn a lot from Haydn in most areas of music, even including opera* * * where Haydn declared the younger man to be absolutely supreme.
Just a final comment on your interesting point about recognition: you’re right in relation to Mozart, that during his own time, very few actually recognised him for what he was, Haydn most obviously being one who did, but he was one of very few (Beethoven in the next generation was more typical of the wider appreciation of Mozart that began to develop soon after his death).
Haydn in contrast was not short of recognition in his own lifetime, even before the two trips to England; post-England, he was virtually an international superstar and the most famous composer of the age (one of the things that irked Beethoven, and provoked a number of his very silly and tetchy comments about him).
Today, the positions of Mozart and Haydn are almost exactly reversed.
* Papa of course looks particularly silly to anyone who understands Italian - the two composers’ shared musical language - as it means Pope.
* * If you put it into English and refer to ‘…old Father Haydn’, you get a better sense of my problem with the modern fad that appears all over UA-cam for ‘Papa Haydn’.
* * * Mozart would have been fascinated by the very complex and musically advanced end-of-act finales of La fedeltà premiata (1780) for example when he would have heard it in Vienna in 1784.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 Thank you for taking the time and care to illuminate these two great artists so thoroughly. I can see how inadequate “papa” is as a descriptor. Well done.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 Well-said. It's a pleasure to hear from someone who has the interest and comprehension of this subject.
20:43 ending
Thanks for uploading!
Haydn supposedly asked for the slow movement of his Symphony No. 44 in E minor to be played at his funeral. IMHO the slow movement of this symphony would have been a much better choice - such a fine and exquisite piece of music as only a classical master could have written.
1:25 wow i can actually see that wave!
Spectacular second movement! Like Beethovens 3-rd (Eroica) symphony, II. movement Marcia funebre - Adagio assai)
Il significato delle parole che Haydn appose in calce alla partitura, non è chiaro, trattandosi forse di un riferimento ad una rappresentazione teatrale di cui non ci è pervenuto l'argomento. La sinfonia avrebbe dovuto in questo caso servire da musica di scena, ma nulla autorizza a individuare in essa, più che in altre opere dello stesso periodo, intendimenti illustrativi. Non resta che interpretare il motto latino nel senso letterale: Haydn si incammina per una strada nuova, impegna le sue capacità di espressione in una direzione diversa da quella seguita costantemente durante lo Sturm und Drang. Al momento romantico succede una fase di riflessione e di consolidamento stilistico, fase in cui questa sinfonia si inserisce con discrezione, apparentemente ancora legata ad un linguaggio impetuoso, in realtà già partecipe di un equilibrio superiore. LDC 1:47
But can it be mixed with Bob-Omb Battlefield?
Such a great composition
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too fast...