As a mixed race person I think that any group where people are obsessed with racial classification on a personal level and use it to single individuals out is really uncomfortable. Like there's a degree to which it's just whatever, but it's legitimately miserable as a half-white half-black person when people won't drop weird shit about how we were born. I think it's an obvious issue when white people can't take a joke or get obsessed with the idea that these things aren't societal problems, especially when they have no self-analysis, but imo if people in a group constantly make it obvious that they view you as being less deserving of respect for racial reasons like that they shouldn't even get to call themselves your friends. Maybe I've just had a lot of bad experiences though. I think you're correct that ultimately people just want an excuse to justify being catty and mean on a personal level, I just hate when people try to say interpersonal bullying is in the name of justice.
That 2nd one was bonkers. Like, in my experience, the only stuff that matters for the menu is if you know family has allergies. Beyond that, nobody needs to know or care until the food comes out. Unless you're helping provide the food at least. So, in my honest opinion, as long as the food was of good quality who cares if there's no chicken? Even as an autistic picky kid, if I tried any of that I'd have inhaled it after I try a bite. What the family did after that is...unspeakable. Auntie describing the meal as "vegetables" is excluding details to the point it's a lie. Cousin ordering PIZZA (which is 90% veggie beyond the cheese and some toppings anyway) is utterly bizzare. And then mocking the couple for DISRESPECTING THEM later on? Nah, nah. NTA, and grab the button for any of the family that got on that train. I have carnivores in my family who would have just eaten those jerks instead out of rage.
#2 - As long as they went along with any dietary requirements, as in actual requirements like allergies, they should be fine. If I was the couple and saw the pizzas coming in the door? I would have right then and there order them to take that out of the place and don't let the door hit them on the way out.
2nd story, NTA. I think mentioning it would be the correct move but, at the end of the day, it's your wedding and your experience. But making a mistake isnt cause to have your entire wedding experience that you carefully cultivated destroyed. Im not even a huge fan of vegan food but i would definitely try the food just because its THEIR menu and you can tell they worked really hard for this.
As an enormous picky eater, I can't believe the councel messed up that second one. If you are a picky eater going to a wedding, you already gotta know not to go there hungry. You do not need a warning.
Considering a bunch of people accepted the pizzas, it’s not a picky eater problem. It just doesn’t make sense to have absolutely no non-vegan options, just like having no vegan options to accommodate people is a dick move.
Mhm. As a picky eater, not having anything to eat at events like this is just the reality of your life, and you have to adapt to that. But everyone else? Who are willing to, at least in principle, try something new in public? Enormously rude to not at least try it.
Why is it an expected act to disclose a vegan menu? It's not like it was restrictive on other people. People treat it like vegan stuff isn't a default. People play the "you need to disclose your uncommon identity in advance" card as though there's something unusual about mushrooms or like it's entrapment if you show up and see a salad.
I wish I could remember the man's name but I remember when a blind civil rights activist was interviewed on the Colbert Report. Stephen is playing his character and tells him "Well I don't see color." The man leans in and, without missing a beat, responds "Yeah me neither."
44:36 I've never been to a wedding that tells me the menu, everyone knows they're both vegan, they can ask. And even more, I bet the family members thought it was a possibility and were prepared to be aholes about it.
As a picky eater myself (I am working on it!), they got the 2nd one wrong. I knew walking into my brothers wedding to not go there hungry, to just have a granola bar before stuff popped off. In general, my food issues are not other people's problems and if I don't want the food being served I shut the fuck up and eat something later. That is the adult thing to do. Could they have told people ahead of time? Yes. Would that have been better? Yes. But if someone finds themselves in a scenario where they don't want to have the food around them, they need to suck it up.
The second story sounds insane, you're not at a restaurant where you go there specifically to eat something you like, you're at a wedding to participate to a celebration of two people and have an experience around them. Ofc the bride and groom want everyone to also have a good time, but it should be guests that accomodate them and make them feel special, this includes also trying a menu that maybe is not your cup of tea; worst case you can not eat too much and just eat enough to get you through the event, and it's not even that weird of a menu in this case, it's just vegetables! If you're afflicted by a bad case of picky eatery I think you should probably have an extra couple of snacks on you, just in case you go to a wedding and there's nothing you feel like eating; sure it won't look great on you, but at least you'll get through the thing. The couple didn't need to announce the menu, at most I'd have said that the menu will be a bit peculiar, a lot of really good stuff but just letting you all know so that you can organize better. But even that sounds a bit extra to me
I'm sorry, but they specifically spent months crafting a vegan menu for the express purpose of creating a menu that would satisfy non-vegans. Did any of the other guests even have a problem with it? Would anyone even have *realized* that the dinner was vegan if the stupid aunt hadn't blabbed to the brother? Aside from allergy / dietary restrictions being asked for before the wedding and appropriate accommodations being made, wedding guests are not owed ANY specific food. Of any kind.
for the second one i think whether they disclose or not the menu is just not part of the question, even if i think they should've, being a picky eater myself. the question was whether they should've said it was vegan, and for that they are not an asshole, the difference between not disclosing the menu and only saying it's going to be vegan only matters if you're a jerk
The thing I'm trying to wrangle with is (like the baby name story) the 2nd one feels like a reddit "we'll make the menu all vegan but so good the meat eaters can't tell, gotcha" but they're also mostly within their right to do so and did it in a quality manner. The food was expensive, high-end and curated while being at an event they were hosting about them. But given the reaction to the pizzas being brought, it seems like most of the people on the grooms side were the extremely annoying anti-vegan type (mad the wife forced her beliefs onto the husband) so they can't have expected zero friction. They either needed to fully commit to the ploy (how did the aunt get wind of it enough to inform the cousins) or, as you guys were saying, just let them know ahead of time so if they weren't going to eat anything they could go to McD's beforehand. Anecdotally, for my sister's birthday last week I brought her a cinnamon roll from Cinnaholic, a place I was told was 100% vegan, but after ordering I realized there weren't any indicators _anywhere_. I went on the site and, after more searching than I envisioned, managed to find the 100% vegan line on a blurb on the very bottom of the menu. It's a one-off anecdote, but it really felt like the "I am annoying about disliking vegans" people made it not worth advertising the place as such. It was extremely good and I'd imagine most vegans would figure it out by asking, but if you didn't need to know it's not something that they force upon you.
This is my second time being amazed at how life is in the US. Even though it's so crazy over there, for the 2nd story, do people in America really go into weddings expecting edible food? Holy sht. I have been to multiple weddings and the food is always bad at best. The point is to celebrate the newlyweds, not to eat, yes even in the reception. Holy sht the difference between 1st and 3rd world countries is so fucking astonishing.
Okay councel, since you are catching some backlash on your take on the second post: I think your opinion is as close to mine as it can be without being 100% identical. I agree with your idea that they could have announced what the menu was going to be beforehand. Picky eaters and uncultured/closeminded eaters are warned beforehand, and can accomodate accordingly. This way, the pizza situation does not occur. And even if it did: you can tell those who ordered pizza to f*ck off. That being said: those who ordered the pizza ARE the assholes. You do not behave that way on a wedding, ordering pizza without consulting the groom and bride. The icing on the cake is them calling the food at the wedding 'rabbit food' - even if you are a picky eater, you do not disrespect the caterer that way. Period. Incredible behavior, I feel so bad for the bride and groom. See y'all next week, ily guys!
Oh damn y'all starting out spicy. Joseph's understanding about the use of the word "racism" is wrong and not surprising. After scrolling these comments I realize people have reached a good point in deduction by reversing the situation without context. Tho still lacking the ability to add back context to see how that alters it and what baggage is associated. We'll get there eventually
I think something thats often overlooked for the first story is that systematic racism is not the only type of racism. Its why the prefix systematic is there at all interpersonal racism exists and the one white people in america are capable of facing. Systematic racist is almost always worse and more prevalent but it doesnt mean that other forms are ok.
1. Incorrect Common mistake: The word you are looking for is "systemic" when referring to racism. Systematic refers to a process, as in something done in a given order. Systemic refers to a thing deriving from or relating to a system, like the systems of power, i.e. the American criminal justice system, that cause racism to be a much more elevated form of prejudice that affects vast communities than just interpersonal strife with friends. 2. Incorrect This is still not racism toward the white friend in this post. Racism is defined as prejudice or discrimination against someone in the basis of their ethnic or racial identity, mostly toward marginalized peoples. Not only is it arguable whether white even counts as a race or ethnicity (this would usually refer to your European ancestry as a white individual), but whites are also not a marginalized group. The word you are looking for to define the POC friends in this post, as Jordan put it, is "rude". "Exclusionary" "catty" or "mean" also work here.
@BeanMagoon a simple mistake of autocorrect And while a majority of it was just being catty as you say there were several instances where prejudice based on race is clearly applicable
@@BeanMagoon you wrote down a definition of racism, it described this scenario, and then you pretended a "mostly" was absolute and made up a second BS reason why the definition wouldn't apply here I'm not intending to defend reverse racism here, but your argument is so bad it almost does it for me
hey guys i understand saying reverse raycism can happen is unpopular but like, u all agreed there was prejudice happening based on race theres a word for that
Racism is structural. The REASON you can’t be racist to white people is because it’s not an ingrained part of daily life (‘no whites allowed here’ type shit didn’t happen) due to a created ideal of superiority. White people made themselves think they were more human and deserving of rights than other races, continually created harmful stereotypes and portrayals of minority groups to further than indoctrinated hate. Prejudice doesn’t come from the same framework, moron. Black people have a storied history of being seen and treated as lesser than white people by every metric, they have reason to have those prejudices and working against that ingrained hate is part of the fight against racial violence and rhetoric. You can’t be racist to white people, they created the system, they upheld it, they made the concept of “race” and used it as a rod and whip. Do a little thinking before speaking next time, maybe you’ll realize there’s a difference between “racism” and “prejudice” as if them being two separate words wasn’t a starting point
'white' is a not a race sooooooooooo you're just chirping bud sit down and chill out. You can be racist towards Germans or Russians but 'white' is a nebulous term that has expanded it's definition and who is included over time to maintain 'white' supremacy
For as much as they make fun of "libewals", that was soy as fuck. Fuck, I imagine they don't know better (especially peeps here) but there's a difference between systemic and interpersonal racism. "You can't be racist to white people" is only true systematically, and those people were just being personally racist for no reason, full stop
@@brycedavis5610the word racism existed for a long time before it was (very recently) accepted by some to only refer to systemic racism. (Also even by the revamped definition of racism it’s still possible to be racist towards a white person, it just isn’t in certain places and is possible in others). Prejudice is and always has been broader strokes than racism. If im being homophobic im being prejudiced. If im being racist, im also being prejudiced. Its the rectangle and racism is the square.
I think the 1st one can be looked at an other than racism. To put it simply : their friends keep doing something that bother the poster, those things being racist or not doesn't matter. Poster should just say to them " can you stop saying those things that bother me ? " And then poster should decide what to do depending on how they react. And if they continue to being mean to the poster, maybe the poster should find other and better friends. PS : anyone at this wedding who made fun of the meals and agrees that " pizza saved the days " should be eating shit for eternity.
Second one, I think announcing that the menu is vegan is definitely the right move. Like Joseph mentions its much more likely to cause issues if you surprise them with it, and it is much easier to plan a quick stop at Taco Bell beforehand if you know you won’t like the food being served. I do agree with Danny that a wedding is supposed to be selfish and unselfish at the same time, but also you should be accommodating to your guest’s food preferences. Honestly I do not blame the guests (only the brother and cousin for being dicks) since it sounds like the two biggest meals were mushroom related, if you’re not a mushroom fan you’re just fucked. It’s more of a ESH situation, but if we have give a yes or no answer then yeah, AH
Disagree, it's not that hard to try to eat a couple of vegetable based food (even if you don't like one particularly) let's be real. It's not a problem at all if the food at a wedding is kinda shit, it can happen and the point of the weeding is to celebrate the marriage, not going to a restaurant and getting whatever you want
Post 1: Gotta say, I think my perspective on things may have changed. I'm asian and there was a lot of that same talk, but just NOT ABOUT OUR FRIENDS. Even then I thought it was kinda racist at the time. But to be honest, I don't think it was ever from a place of hatred. If I had heard the same thing from my parents or older relatives, I would actually think it was racist because they tend to put groups of people above one another. Post 2: At first, I was thinking that if the bride had just told everyone, none of this would have happened. If she had told everyone the menu and really talked up the chef, maybe she could convince some picky eaters to take a bite or two. But then she was treated so poorly, I flipped sides. You don't get to ruin a wedding because you don't like the food. Personal bias against picky eaters is kicking in. But Peeps absolutely correct that it was not the mature thing to do. SO HOW DO THEY COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THE BRIDE WAS THE BIGGER ASSHOLE. Post 3: Yeah, it was an asshole thing to say but it was really funny. Maybe the aunt will laugh about it once then kitten's grown, so in the end it'll work out.
Maybe I'm in the minority on this but they definitely should have told people what to expect on the menu. Allergy stuff alone means that I couldn't eat at least 2 courses of that meal. Everyone definitely extremely sucks here the bride and groom being the least asshole-ish by far, but definitely should have told people.
I feel if the situation was flipped and OP ended inviting their openly vegan family/friends with no indication, preparing food that "vegans should like" and not telling them "so they can enjoy the flavor without prejudice", both the Councel and people in comments would see the asshole bit more clearly (since that still happens relatively often to declared vegans)
@@nikodemossowski4621 But the reversed example is generally how society treats vegans anyways. The default assumption is that you eat meat because it is ingrained culturally, so treatment otherwise is special. In fact, you'd probably alert the vegan party goes that there will be options for them since typically there aren't(Outside salad and the stray baked potato). In either case, I would see it as misguided, not asshole behavior.
@@Ironpeckerif you had to say something was "probably" done that was not mentioned at all in the story then you're the one doing the "creative writing" lol.
@@nikodemossowski4621 Lots of people tend to ignore the "reverse roles test" when considering whether someone is an asshole or not. Even the council fails to d that when it comes to something a guy does vs something a woman does.
I mean many of these things sound like classic microaggression type stuff theirs no intent just say hey i don't think you would like if others said the same thing if it was reversed. id prefer you stop or at least try to be cognoscente of it. Second one is not in the wrong. If you believe in veganism its totally fine to not want to have to what you believe to be animal cruelty as part of your ceremony. Im a huge meat eater but i totally respect that desire. They were hella assholes. you got bread ill live its, your day.
As someone who is getting married very soon , and has had to plan around guests - This person should have absolutely mentioned the menu on the invitation etc etc. Let people plan around not eating a protein they normally expect at a wedding. That being said ordering pizzas is a huge asshole move and they 100 percent should have been asked to leave. While your wedding is "your special day" it is also for the guests, and they should ideally have a good time.
1. Incorrect 2. Incorrect 3. Correct This marks the first time where the Councel has gotten the majority of the verdicts incorrect, making it notable as technically the worst episode of the pod to date. Bottle Night mentioned: 9 episodes (two on patreon) KILLS: 9 (two on Patreon - Kill Button merch when?) see ya next time :)
You can be racist towards any race. "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized." the operative word here being "typically". They are showing prejudice based on race. That is racism. Just because white people are not considered a minority doesn't mean racial prejudice can't exist on a person by person basis. Should the first poster be approaching it from a stance of exclusively racism? Probably not. However it might be important for them to mention how their comments can be hurtful or make them feel lesser just because of the color of their skin. Additionally, the term you guys are looking for is 'Micro-aggression"
I cannot believe the second one. She didn’t deserve what happened to her, all those guests are huge assholes but you do need to tell guests what’s on the menu. I’m a type 1 diabetic, some vegan food could send my blood sugar levels skyrocketing. What some people don’t understand is it’s not just sugar you need to look out for when picking what to eat. If we are not told what we are eating, and assume it’s a “normal” dish it could hurt us immensely. You NEED to tell people what is really on the menu, period.
Fundamentally L take on the second one y’all. Even acknowledging that they could’ve shared the menu, that’s nowhere near the level of “asshole,” let alone compared to the response.
The first story reminds me of a watch party I was in with my friends. We were watching an episode of the first season of Wakfu with The Cannibal Island (which man those types of episodes are just always a minefield for being weirdly racist as fuck) and most of us weren't talking cuz we were doing our own thing while watching. Halfway through the episode one of my friends says "Okay so Zeik is the only person here who isn't black, how's everyone else feeling about this?" and they were all ambivalent on the whole but I was equal parts on the floor laughing and super apologetic for that being brought up cuz I forgot all about that episode before we started. Nothing huge but it was an amusing bit of embarrassed hilarity.
the wildest part about the whole AI ad thing is that apparently people are actually unironically nostalgic for an advertisement. like what are you talking about you look back fondly on that old way they used to trick you into buying shit instead of the new way. They are showing you pretty lights to buy your allegiance and you're nostalgic for the prettier lights they used to have. If this whole war of AI vs ads ends in mutual destruction that's an upside. If ads are deemed dead and ineffective forever from this that's also an upside.
Wedding person definitely had an agenda doing what they did. Even subconsciously knowing who their guest list included. Secondly having 15k to spend on something you KNOW will not go over well is also a crime.
As a mixed race person I think that any group where people are obsessed with racial classification on a personal level and use it to single individuals out is really uncomfortable. Like there's a degree to which it's just whatever, but it's legitimately miserable as a half-white half-black person when people won't drop weird shit about how we were born. I think it's an obvious issue when white people can't take a joke or get obsessed with the idea that these things aren't societal problems, especially when they have no self-analysis, but imo if people in a group constantly make it obvious that they view you as being less deserving of respect for racial reasons like that they shouldn't even get to call themselves your friends. Maybe I've just had a lot of bad experiences though. I think you're correct that ultimately people just want an excuse to justify being catty and mean on a personal level, I just hate when people try to say interpersonal bullying is in the name of justice.
That 2nd one was bonkers. Like, in my experience, the only stuff that matters for the menu is if you know family has allergies. Beyond that, nobody needs to know or care until the food comes out. Unless you're helping provide the food at least. So, in my honest opinion, as long as the food was of good quality who cares if there's no chicken? Even as an autistic picky kid, if I tried any of that I'd have inhaled it after I try a bite.
What the family did after that is...unspeakable. Auntie describing the meal as "vegetables" is excluding details to the point it's a lie. Cousin ordering PIZZA (which is 90% veggie beyond the cheese and some toppings anyway) is utterly bizzare. And then mocking the couple for DISRESPECTING THEM later on? Nah, nah. NTA, and grab the button for any of the family that got on that train. I have carnivores in my family who would have just eaten those jerks instead out of rage.
#2 - As long as they went along with any dietary requirements, as in actual requirements like allergies, they should be fine. If I was the couple and saw the pizzas coming in the door? I would have right then and there order them to take that out of the place and don't let the door hit them on the way out.
MBT : “I love a bit, but there is a time”
MBT has changed😢
This but unironically
My goat washed
2nd story, NTA. I think mentioning it would be the correct move but, at the end of the day, it's your wedding and your experience. But making a mistake isnt cause to have your entire wedding experience that you carefully cultivated destroyed. Im not even a huge fan of vegan food but i would definitely try the food just because its THEIR menu and you can tell they worked really hard for this.
As an enormous picky eater, I can't believe the councel messed up that second one. If you are a picky eater going to a wedding, you already gotta know not to go there hungry. You do not need a warning.
How the hell did you watch all of the episode in 2 minutes
@@thecomradewarda its out on Sptify for a couple of hours alrdy
Agree you go to every event expecting to not be able to eat so you prepare around that and if you do get to eat bonus
Considering a bunch of people accepted the pizzas, it’s not a picky eater problem. It just doesn’t make sense to have absolutely no non-vegan options, just like having no vegan options to accommodate people is a dick move.
Mhm. As a picky eater, not having anything to eat at events like this is just the reality of your life, and you have to adapt to that. But everyone else? Who are willing to, at least in principle, try something new in public? Enormously rude to not at least try it.
Why is it an expected act to disclose a vegan menu? It's not like it was restrictive on other people. People treat it like vegan stuff isn't a default.
People play the "you need to disclose your uncommon identity in advance" card as though there's something unusual about mushrooms or like it's entrapment if you show up and see a salad.
I wish I could remember the man's name but I remember when a blind civil rights activist was interviewed on the Colbert Report. Stephen is playing his character and tells him "Well I don't see color." The man leans in and, without missing a beat, responds "Yeah me neither."
44:36 I've never been to a wedding that tells me the menu, everyone knows they're both vegan, they can ask. And even more, I bet the family members thought it was a possibility and were prepared to be aholes about it.
As a picky eater myself (I am working on it!), they got the 2nd one wrong. I knew walking into my brothers wedding to not go there hungry, to just have a granola bar before stuff popped off. In general, my food issues are not other people's problems and if I don't want the food being served I shut the fuck up and eat something later. That is the adult thing to do. Could they have told people ahead of time? Yes. Would that have been better? Yes. But if someone finds themselves in a scenario where they don't want to have the food around them, they need to suck it up.
The second story sounds insane, you're not at a restaurant where you go there specifically to eat something you like, you're at a wedding to participate to a celebration of two people and have an experience around them. Ofc the bride and groom want everyone to also have a good time, but it should be guests that accomodate them and make them feel special, this includes also trying a menu that maybe is not your cup of tea; worst case you can not eat too much and just eat enough to get you through the event, and it's not even that weird of a menu in this case, it's just vegetables! If you're afflicted by a bad case of picky eatery I think you should probably have an extra couple of snacks on you, just in case you go to a wedding and there's nothing you feel like eating; sure it won't look great on you, but at least you'll get through the thing.
The couple didn't need to announce the menu, at most I'd have said that the menu will be a bit peculiar, a lot of really good stuff but just letting you all know so that you can organize better. But even that sounds a bit extra to me
I'm sorry, but they specifically spent months crafting a vegan menu for the express purpose of creating a menu that would satisfy non-vegans. Did any of the other guests even have a problem with it? Would anyone even have *realized* that the dinner was vegan if the stupid aunt hadn't blabbed to the brother?
Aside from allergy / dietary restrictions being asked for before the wedding and appropriate accommodations being made, wedding guests are not owed ANY specific food. Of any kind.
Writing down that 9/11 bits at an airport are fair game but calling a cat a scrotum-like is too far
You gotta wait until the cat is 22, then it's legally funny
Joseph is NEVER gonna beat the One Story For Everything allegations
Jordan is such a caricature of a guy, man, he's great
for the second one i think whether they disclose or not the menu is just not part of the question, even if i think they should've, being a picky eater myself. the question was whether they should've said it was vegan, and for that they are not an asshole, the difference between not disclosing the menu and only saying it's going to be vegan only matters if you're a jerk
20 pizzas is so many fucking pizzas
This was such a good birthday present for me today
if there ever is a "best of WOTC moments" the entire segment with the third story belongs there
Joeseph's scrotum story makes it sound like he's Fred Willard from A Mighty Wind.
you're laughing. his scwotum got bit and you're laughing.
The thing I'm trying to wrangle with is (like the baby name story) the 2nd one feels like a reddit "we'll make the menu all vegan but so good the meat eaters can't tell, gotcha" but they're also mostly within their right to do so and did it in a quality manner. The food was expensive, high-end and curated while being at an event they were hosting about them. But given the reaction to the pizzas being brought, it seems like most of the people on the grooms side were the extremely annoying anti-vegan type (mad the wife forced her beliefs onto the husband) so they can't have expected zero friction. They either needed to fully commit to the ploy (how did the aunt get wind of it enough to inform the cousins) or, as you guys were saying, just let them know ahead of time so if they weren't going to eat anything they could go to McD's beforehand.
Anecdotally, for my sister's birthday last week I brought her a cinnamon roll from Cinnaholic, a place I was told was 100% vegan, but after ordering I realized there weren't any indicators _anywhere_. I went on the site and, after more searching than I envisioned, managed to find the 100% vegan line on a blurb on the very bottom of the menu. It's a one-off anecdote, but it really felt like the "I am annoying about disliking vegans" people made it not worth advertising the place as such. It was extremely good and I'd imagine most vegans would figure it out by asking, but if you didn't need to know it's not something that they force upon you.
This is my second time being amazed at how life is in the US. Even though it's so crazy over there, for the 2nd story, do people in America really go into weddings expecting edible food? Holy sht. I have been to multiple weddings and the food is always bad at best. The point is to celebrate the newlyweds, not to eat, yes even in the reception. Holy sht the difference between 1st and 3rd world countries is so fucking astonishing.
Okay councel, since you are catching some backlash on your take on the second post:
I think your opinion is as close to mine as it can be without being 100% identical.
I agree with your idea that they could have announced what the menu was going to be beforehand. Picky eaters and uncultured/closeminded eaters are warned beforehand, and can accomodate accordingly.
This way, the pizza situation does not occur. And even if it did: you can tell those who ordered pizza to f*ck off.
That being said: those who ordered the pizza ARE the assholes. You do not behave that way on a wedding, ordering pizza without consulting the groom and bride. The icing on the cake is them calling the food at the wedding 'rabbit food' - even if you are a picky eater, you do not disrespect the caterer that way. Period.
Incredible behavior, I feel so bad for the bride and groom.
See y'all next week, ily guys!
Oh damn y'all starting out spicy. Joseph's understanding about the use of the word "racism" is wrong and not surprising.
After scrolling these comments I realize people have reached a good point in deduction by reversing the situation without context. Tho still lacking the ability to add back context to see how that alters it and what baggage is associated. We'll get there eventually
I think something thats often overlooked for the first story is that systematic racism is not the only type of racism. Its why the prefix systematic is there at all interpersonal racism exists and the one white people in america are capable of facing.
Systematic racist is almost always worse and more prevalent but it doesnt mean that other forms are ok.
1. Incorrect
Common mistake: The word you are looking for is "systemic" when referring to racism. Systematic refers to a process, as in something done in a given order. Systemic refers to a thing deriving from or relating to a system, like the systems of power, i.e. the American criminal justice system, that cause racism to be a much more elevated form of prejudice that affects vast communities than just interpersonal strife with friends.
2. Incorrect
This is still not racism toward the white friend in this post. Racism is defined as prejudice or discrimination against someone in the basis of their ethnic or racial identity, mostly toward marginalized peoples. Not only is it arguable whether white even counts as a race or ethnicity (this would usually refer to your European ancestry as a white individual), but whites are also not a marginalized group.
The word you are looking for to define the POC friends in this post, as Jordan put it, is "rude". "Exclusionary" "catty" or "mean" also work here.
@BeanMagoon a simple mistake of autocorrect
And while a majority of it was just being catty as you say there were several instances where prejudice based on race is clearly applicable
@@BeanMagoon you wrote down a definition of racism, it described this scenario, and then you pretended a "mostly" was absolute and made up a second BS reason why the definition wouldn't apply here
I'm not intending to defend reverse racism here, but your argument is so bad it almost does it for me
hey guys i understand saying reverse raycism can happen is unpopular but like, u all agreed there was prejudice happening
based on race
theres a word for that
Racism is structural. The REASON you can’t be racist to white people is because it’s not an ingrained part of daily life (‘no whites allowed here’ type shit didn’t happen) due to a created ideal of superiority. White people made themselves think they were more human and deserving of rights than other races, continually created harmful stereotypes and portrayals of minority groups to further than indoctrinated hate. Prejudice doesn’t come from the same framework, moron. Black people have a storied history of being seen and treated as lesser than white people by every metric, they have reason to have those prejudices and working against that ingrained hate is part of the fight against racial violence and rhetoric. You can’t be racist to white people, they created the system, they upheld it, they made the concept of “race” and used it as a rod and whip. Do a little thinking before speaking next time, maybe you’ll realize there’s a difference between “racism” and “prejudice” as if them being two separate words wasn’t a starting point
'white' is a not a race sooooooooooo you're just chirping bud sit down and chill out. You can be racist towards Germans or Russians but 'white' is a nebulous term that has expanded it's definition and who is included over time to maintain 'white' supremacy
thank you for saying this
For as much as they make fun of "libewals", that was soy as fuck. Fuck, I imagine they don't know better (especially peeps here) but there's a difference between systemic and interpersonal racism. "You can't be racist to white people" is only true systematically, and those people were just being personally racist for no reason, full stop
@@brycedavis5610the word racism existed for a long time before it was (very recently) accepted by some to only refer to systemic racism. (Also even by the revamped definition of racism it’s still possible to be racist towards a white person, it just isn’t in certain places and is possible in others).
Prejudice is and always has been broader strokes than racism. If im being homophobic im being prejudiced. If im being racist, im also being prejudiced. Its the rectangle and racism is the square.
I think the 1st one can be looked at an other than racism.
To put it simply : their friends keep doing something that bother the poster, those things being racist or not doesn't matter. Poster should just say to them " can you stop saying those things that bother me ? "
And then poster should decide what to do depending on how they react. And if they continue to being mean to the poster, maybe the poster should find other and better friends.
PS : anyone at this wedding who made fun of the meals and agrees that " pizza saved the days " should be eating shit for eternity.
as a non-american i had never heard of the james beard sandwich and after looking it up it does not look good at all
"celebrities were hawking this shit" more like hawking this TUAH!
To the mines with you
Face the wall.
Is the audio mixed incorrectly or are the boys just crosstalking more than usual?
Ah, real coffee.
Second one, I think announcing that the menu is vegan is definitely the right move. Like Joseph mentions its much more likely to cause issues if you surprise them with it, and it is much easier to plan a quick stop at Taco Bell beforehand if you know you won’t like the food being served.
I do agree with Danny that a wedding is supposed to be selfish and unselfish at the same time, but also you should be accommodating to your guest’s food preferences. Honestly I do not blame the guests (only the brother and cousin for being dicks) since it sounds like the two biggest meals were mushroom related, if you’re not a mushroom fan you’re just fucked.
It’s more of a ESH situation, but if we have give a yes or no answer then yeah, AH
Disagree, it's not that hard to try to eat a couple of vegetable based food (even if you don't like one particularly) let's be real. It's not a problem at all if the food at a wedding is kinda shit, it can happen and the point of the weeding is to celebrate the marriage, not going to a restaurant and getting whatever you want
Post 1: Gotta say, I think my perspective on things may have changed. I'm asian and there was a lot of that same talk, but just NOT ABOUT OUR FRIENDS. Even then I thought it was kinda racist at the time. But to be honest, I don't think it was ever from a place of hatred. If I had heard the same thing from my parents or older relatives, I would actually think it was racist because they tend to put groups of people above one another.
Post 2: At first, I was thinking that if the bride had just told everyone, none of this would have happened. If she had told everyone the menu and really talked up the chef, maybe she could convince some picky eaters to take a bite or two. But then she was treated so poorly, I flipped sides. You don't get to ruin a wedding because you don't like the food. Personal bias against picky eaters is kicking in. But Peeps absolutely correct that it was not the mature thing to do. SO HOW DO THEY COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THE BRIDE WAS THE BIGGER ASSHOLE.
Post 3: Yeah, it was an asshole thing to say but it was really funny. Maybe the aunt will laugh about it once then kitten's grown, so in the end it'll work out.
Maybe I'm in the minority on this but they definitely should have told people what to expect on the menu. Allergy stuff alone means that I couldn't eat at least 2 courses of that meal. Everyone definitely extremely sucks here the bride and groom being the least asshole-ish by far, but definitely should have told people.
I feel if the situation was flipped and OP ended inviting their openly vegan family/friends with no indication, preparing food that "vegans should like" and not telling them "so they can enjoy the flavor without prejudice", both the Councel and people in comments would see the asshole bit more clearly (since that still happens relatively often to declared vegans)
@@nikodemossowski4621 But the reversed example is generally how society treats vegans anyways. The default assumption is that you eat meat because it is ingrained culturally, so treatment otherwise is special. In fact, you'd probably alert the vegan party goes that there will be options for them since typically there aren't(Outside salad and the stray baked potato). In either case, I would see it as misguided, not asshole behavior.
They probably just asked for allergies before hand and then made the menu. I think you're doing a bit of creative writing
@@Ironpeckerif you had to say something was "probably" done that was not mentioned at all in the story then you're the one doing the "creative writing" lol.
@@nikodemossowski4621 Lots of people tend to ignore the "reverse roles test" when considering whether someone is an asshole or not. Even the council fails to d that when it comes to something a guy does vs something a woman does.
Please inform your podcasts hosts that it is not called "interesting white" it's called "spicy white"
Imagine going to a wedding and the menu was by the Thanksgiving mystery food lady
I mean many of these things sound like classic microaggression type stuff theirs no intent just say hey i don't think you would like if others said the same thing if it was reversed. id prefer you stop or at least try to be cognoscente of it.
Second one is not in the wrong. If you believe in veganism its totally fine to not want to have to what you believe to be animal cruelty as part of your ceremony. Im a huge meat eater but i totally respect that desire. They were hella assholes. you got bread ill live its, your day.
HARD disagree on the second one's verdict.
As someone who is getting married very soon , and has had to plan around guests - This person should have absolutely mentioned the menu on the invitation etc etc. Let people plan around not eating a protein they normally expect at a wedding. That being said ordering pizzas is a huge asshole move and they 100 percent should have been asked to leave. While your wedding is "your special day" it is also for the guests, and they should ideally have a good time.
1. Incorrect
2. Incorrect
3. Correct
This marks the first time where the Councel has gotten the majority of the verdicts incorrect, making it notable as technically the worst episode of the pod to date.
Bottle Night mentioned: 9 episodes (two on patreon)
KILLS: 9 (two on Patreon - Kill Button merch when?)
see ya next time :)
You can be racist towards any race.
"prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized."
the operative word here being "typically". They are showing prejudice based on race. That is racism.
Just because white people are not considered a minority doesn't mean racial prejudice can't exist on a person by person basis.
Should the first poster be approaching it from a stance of exclusively racism? Probably not. However it might be important for them to mention how their comments can be hurtful or make them feel lesser just because of the color of their skin. Additionally, the term you guys are looking for is 'Micro-aggression"
I cannot believe the second one. She didn’t deserve what happened to her, all those guests are huge assholes but you do need to tell guests what’s on the menu.
I’m a type 1 diabetic, some vegan food could send my blood sugar levels skyrocketing. What some people don’t understand is it’s not just sugar you need to look out for when picking what to eat. If we are not told what we are eating, and assume it’s a “normal” dish it could hurt us immensely. You NEED to tell people what is really on the menu, period.
Fundamentally L take on the second one y’all. Even acknowledging that they could’ve shared the menu, that’s nowhere near the level of “asshole,” let alone compared to the response.
The first story reminds me of a watch party I was in with my friends. We were watching an episode of the first season of Wakfu with The Cannibal Island (which man those types of episodes are just always a minefield for being weirdly racist as fuck) and most of us weren't talking cuz we were doing our own thing while watching. Halfway through the episode one of my friends says "Okay so Zeik is the only person here who isn't black, how's everyone else feeling about this?" and they were all ambivalent on the whole but I was equal parts on the floor laughing and super apologetic for that being brought up cuz I forgot all about that episode before we started. Nothing huge but it was an amusing bit of embarrassed hilarity.
Nobody hit a pretty fly for a white guy joke and I hate it
the wildest part about the whole AI ad thing is that apparently people are actually unironically nostalgic for an advertisement. like what are you talking about you look back fondly on that old way they used to trick you into buying shit instead of the new way. They are showing you pretty lights to buy your allegiance and you're nostalgic for the prettier lights they used to have. If this whole war of AI vs ads ends in mutual destruction that's an upside. If ads are deemed dead and ineffective forever from this that's also an upside.
LOUDER KING . F**K ADS !
Wedding person definitely had an agenda doing what they did. Even subconsciously knowing who their guest list included. Secondly having 15k to spend on something you KNOW will not go over well is also a crime.
Jordan 0 for 3
Eewww. Any other vegans get pizza oven ads 😂