This is one of the most touching sonatas by Beethoven to me, incredibly tender, beautifully crafted, and innovative in its construction. Thank you for playing it so sincerly and humbly. He famously preferred it over his Moonlight Sonata, and i can see why. Just amazing music and a powerful performance to go with it.
I’ve never heard this work before. I feel very fortunate to have this opportunity as I have become a firm believer in the WBMP. I want to bask in all this beauty for the time being. However, eventually I must furl myself forward in time to the muddled virtuosity of today’s mainstream recordings to see how this gem has lost its lustre. There’s no rush though.
A very brave performance Alberto. This sonata sounds so much more intelligible at this speed! And the sparing use if pedal is wonderful (Beethoven was so detailed in his pedal markings. Why does everyone assume he had his foot glued to it alla Rachmaninov?? Apparently, even Moscheles, a generation after Beethoven, used the pedal very sparingly: "Moscheles was distinguished by a crisp and incisive touch, clear and precise phrasing, and a preference for minute accentuation [...] and was chary in the use of the pedals." Edward Dannreuther, Moscheles' pupil). By the way, take another look at the chord just before the ascending arpeggio right at the end of the sonata (bar 176). The top note is a D# (not a D natural) in every edition I've seen. ;-)
@@Renshen1957 I like what Wim has said before about that, in one of his videos he said that starting to play without pedal almost feels like performing naked. It definitely exposes a lot of inadequacy and forces you to pay very close attention to articulation!
@@makytondr8607 I used to compare it to a tight rope walker in a circus performing without a safety net. I prefer the naked analogy as more apropos, no place to hide and every freckle and wart exposed for all and sundry to hear.
On the subject of Beethoven, and WB theory and practice. Tibor Szasz, published an article on Beethoven's Basso Continuo in the Piano Concerto No. 5 op. 73, EMPEROR. Early Keyboard Journal (1988-89_Vol 6 & 7). Beethoven's continuou part being played on Fortepiano couldn't exceed the speed of the single action pianos (as Wim has pointed out) in Vienna, ergo, worth investigation. In short, this continuou part (the Maestro conducting from the keyboard) could very well vindicate Whole Beat Theory. To quote Beethoven, "Religion and Thoroughbass are settled things which there should be no disputing." Besides the manuscript, the first publication in 1811 in German (speaking lands) by Breitkopf and Haertel contain the figures. Ironically, the publication Clementi (Beethoven's "Father of the Piano") published the concerto a year earlier in London, but without the Continuou Figures.
Paul Badura-Skoda, on the omission by Hans-Werner Küthen's eliminating the figured bass (in Piano Concerto No. 1 op. 15) and the unfigured bass (in op. 19 and 37) carried in the original editions of these works (ibid, Tibor Szasz ) took HW-K to task in an essay.
I have pondered for a considerable time, and have understood that whole beat means two ticks one beat and half beat means one tick one beat. Now my question is, isnt it the matter of: whole beat being at a speed and half beat at the double speed? Also, if I wish to watch any piece, for suppose I tell chopin's revolutionary etude, from other virtuoso pianists like Valentina Lisista... Then, should I halve the playback speed to get the whole beat tempi?
No because they don’t reach single beat. That’s one of the big issues with SB, that in most cases they DO NOT reach the indicated tempo. Why? Because it’s too fast! So it’s not modern = 2x faster. It’s modern = faster than double beat. But not Single beat. In other words, modern interpretations are faster than what Wim is playing, but they are slower than what Beethoven, Czerni, Chopin etc wrote for tempo (in the modern way of playing)
@@roberacevedo8232 oh now I get what the matter is all about! So basically if what master winters is telling true, then all these pieces which are at a thundering speed, will be slower than what we listen from our current virtuoso pianists. That would go out of mind! Oh! then it means we have got a very wrong notion of Chopin and Beethoven especially the speed. We think speed = mastery/expert. but then all will change!!!!!!
@@nishantpatil5048 Yes it is one of the reasons Chopin didn’t perform music in concerts too much, in his time already people were playing his pieces too fast to impress audiences.
Enjoy music in whatever way you like. There is nothing that you should or should not do, perhaps besides keeping the open mind of yours. That's the one thing that you probably should do.
@@nishantpatil5048 the only reason this whole beat movement exists is because we have noticed and acknowledged that a lot of music is completely unplayable at the metronome markings (as we interpret them today). This is a problem that some do not acknowledge. Some who do say that it is because composers did not know how to use a metronome or they didn't really mean what they wrote or that all of their metronomes were broken. Wim Winters, Lorenz Gadient and the rest of us have decided not to insult the great composers and engineers of the past but rather have come to the conclusion that we today are interpreting the meaning of these numbers incorrectly. The number indicates the number of full periods the pendulum makes in a minute, not each audible tick.
Interesting that in measure 56 you play the 16th note after the last triplet note, as most performers do today. Many scholars think that in those days, when a dotted 8th note was combined with a triplet, the 16th note after the dotted note was played at the same time as the last triplet note; Jan Ekier in particular was convinced that this rule applies with few exceptions to Chopin's music. What do you think?
@@thomashughes4859 It was a coded message 😉He's a youtuber with a weird passtime: to comment on as many trendy & popular videos as possible, creating the illusion that he's everywhere. So if you ever see him around here, it means we're big!
This is one of the most touching sonatas by Beethoven to me, incredibly tender, beautifully crafted, and innovative in its construction. Thank you for playing it so sincerly and humbly. He famously preferred it over his Moonlight Sonata, and i can see why. Just amazing music and a powerful performance to go with it.
I think it was his favourite piano sonata of his, above all the rest.
Una delle più riuscite, mi piace molto. Bravo Alberto!
Second part is absolutely wonderful !
I’ve never heard this work before. I feel very fortunate to have this opportunity as I have become a firm believer in the WBMP. I want to bask in all this beauty for the time being. However, eventually I must furl myself forward in time to the muddled virtuosity of today’s mainstream recordings to see how this gem has lost its lustre. There’s no rush though.
Well, any updates?
A very brave performance Alberto. This sonata sounds so much more intelligible at this speed! And the sparing use if pedal is wonderful (Beethoven was so detailed in his pedal markings. Why does everyone assume he had his foot glued to it alla Rachmaninov?? Apparently, even Moscheles, a generation after Beethoven, used the pedal very sparingly: "Moscheles was distinguished by a crisp and incisive touch, clear and precise phrasing, and a preference for minute accentuation [...] and was chary in the use of the pedals." Edward Dannreuther, Moscheles' pupil).
By the way, take another look at the chord just before the ascending arpeggio right at the end of the sonata (bar 176). The top note is a D# (not a D natural) in every edition I've seen. ;-)
The pedal is the "Pianists' Crutch." I seen it use to cover laziness in technique, to compensate for the inadequacies of the modern piano.
@@Renshen1957 I like what Wim has said before about that, in one of his videos he said that starting to play without pedal almost feels like performing naked. It definitely exposes a lot of inadequacy and forces you to pay very close attention to articulation!
@@makytondr8607 I used to compare it to a tight rope walker in a circus performing without a safety net. I prefer the naked analogy as more apropos, no place to hide and every freckle and wart exposed for all and sundry to hear.
@@Renshen1957 That is one reason for the sustain pedal. The other is that the sound of the dampened strings can be unpleasantly dry..
@@Renshen1957 The sustain pedal can also be used to sustain notes for the duration specified by the composer, no?
Wonderful
sending all my love to you. this is of my most important sonata. toi toi toi.
Thanks Alberto.
On the subject of Beethoven, and WB theory and practice. Tibor Szasz, published an article on Beethoven's Basso Continuo in the Piano Concerto No. 5 op. 73, EMPEROR. Early Keyboard Journal (1988-89_Vol 6 & 7). Beethoven's continuou part being played on Fortepiano couldn't exceed the speed of the single action pianos (as Wim has pointed out) in Vienna, ergo, worth investigation. In short, this continuou part (the Maestro conducting from the keyboard) could very well vindicate Whole Beat Theory. To quote Beethoven, "Religion and Thoroughbass are settled things which there should be no disputing." Besides the manuscript, the first publication in 1811 in German (speaking lands) by Breitkopf and Haertel contain the figures. Ironically, the publication Clementi (Beethoven's "Father of the Piano") published the concerto a year earlier in London, but without the Continuou Figures.
Paul Badura-Skoda, on the omission by Hans-Werner Küthen's eliminating the figured bass (in Piano Concerto No. 1 op. 15) and the unfigured bass (in op. 19 and 37) carried in the original editions of these works (ibid, Tibor Szasz ) took HW-K to task in an essay.
I've been always wondering what Beethoven had in mind when he composed 16:50 - 17:08
Pipi. Pupu. Pipi. Pupu
I have pondered for a considerable time, and have understood that whole beat means two ticks one beat and half beat means one tick one beat.
Now my question is, isnt it the matter of: whole beat being at a speed and half beat at the double speed? Also, if I wish to watch any piece, for suppose I tell chopin's revolutionary etude, from other virtuoso pianists like Valentina Lisista... Then, should I halve the playback speed to get the whole beat tempi?
No because they don’t reach single beat. That’s one of the big issues with SB, that in most cases they DO NOT reach the indicated tempo. Why? Because it’s too fast!
So it’s not modern = 2x faster. It’s modern = faster than double beat. But not Single beat. In other words, modern interpretations are faster than what Wim is playing, but they are slower than what Beethoven, Czerni, Chopin etc wrote for tempo (in the modern way of playing)
@@roberacevedo8232 oh now I get what the matter is all about! So basically if what master winters is telling true, then all these pieces which are at a thundering speed, will be slower than what we listen from our current virtuoso pianists.
That would go out of mind! Oh! then it means we have got a very wrong notion of Chopin and Beethoven especially the speed. We think speed = mastery/expert.
but then all will change!!!!!!
@@nishantpatil5048 Yes it is one of the reasons Chopin didn’t perform music in concerts too much, in his time already people were playing his pieces too fast to impress audiences.
Enjoy music in whatever way you like. There is nothing that you should or should not do, perhaps besides keeping the open mind of yours. That's the one thing that you probably should do.
@@nishantpatil5048 the only reason this whole beat movement exists is because we have noticed and acknowledged that a lot of music is completely unplayable at the metronome markings (as we interpret them today).
This is a problem that some do not acknowledge. Some who do say that it is because composers did not know how to use a metronome or they didn't really mean what they wrote or that all of their metronomes were broken.
Wim Winters, Lorenz Gadient and the rest of us have decided not to insult the great composers and engineers of the past but rather have come to the conclusion that we today are interpreting the meaning of these numbers incorrectly. The number indicates the number of full periods the pendulum makes in a minute, not each audible tick.
Interesting that in measure 56 you play the 16th note after the last triplet note, as most performers do today. Many scholars think that in those days, when a dotted 8th note was combined with a triplet, the 16th note after the dotted note was played at the same time as the last triplet note; Jan Ekier in particular was convinced that this rule applies with few exceptions to Chopin's music. What do you think?
I am waiting for an answer to your erudite question - most interesting.
The piano tuning seems to be changing over time. Is this intentional? Months ago, it seemed to be 432, and now more like 444.
One my favorite sonata
Waiting for sonata 17!
Hi
Live room
First!
I long for the day, that Justin Y. will be here first 😄
@@surgeeo1406 I don't remember who that is - name doesn't ring a bell.
@@thomashughes4859 It was a coded message 😉He's a youtuber with a weird passtime: to comment on as many trendy & popular videos as possible, creating the illusion that he's everywhere. So if you ever see him around here, it means we're big!
HAHA!!!