Adding in a change here, I got the Inq change mixed up so I'd change it to 1 melta and 1 plasma max Also for Scouts, er, maybe +1 Operative? Or give them +2 scouting points 😅
@@CanYouRollaCrit i will always play my boys, I had a lot of fun converting and kit bashing them for my first event of last edition at Warhammer world, and I added stuff to make them look like Dead Space characters. And making the new specialists from the new kit was a lot of fun too!
As much good as it would do to give the Death Korps perma concealed on their sniper. I think just a blanket Concealed Position on every sniper going forward is better given the new buffs to Vantage and if GW is going to create more "Level 2" Vantage points. Silent Snipers are just terrible to play around if there's an imbalanced amount of Vantage terrain.
Totally agree about Concealed Location, it feels completely random because the Concealed Location snipers aren't any stronger than permanent Silent ones. Stuff like throwing knifes or other weapons that literally don't make a noise, Silent makes sense. A weapon that makes a huge bang and your mate's head explodes? You're gonna know where that shot came from.
I'd suggest not being able to go on Guard when counteracting. Giving Elites the ability to go on Guard potentially twice is a bit too strong now that despite being obscured you can also get shot.
Super agree with these points! Also Mike Cortez is a huge asset with the community with bringing a spotlight to problems with rules. He is NOT a toxic player but sees issues where toxic players can abuse loop holes
@@CrimsonTemplar2 phobos inf commsman has Strategic Oversight. In the Ready step of each Strategy phase, when you gain CP, if this operative is in the killzone and not within Control Range of enemy operatives, you can use this rule. If you do, roll one D6: on a 4+, you gain one additional CP. I like this version of extra CP per turning point. It's based on a single dice roll and you have a 50% chance of getting it. Do corsairs get their extra CP differently? Please don't make an argument for nerfing my precious phobois
@andrewalochner cosairs is a strategic gambit, roll a d3 if the result is higher than the current turning point, gain a CP and you cannot use this ability for the rest of the battle.
I say this as someone who loves Warpcoven: Rubrics should not have a 2+ save. Also, I like the idea of Warding working as it does now, but only against shooters that are 6" or more away (and maybe 8" if its a P1 weapon)
@@CanYouRollaCrit I just feel like its too strong, even without ignoring piecing. The only team that I would be ok potentially havinga 2+ save is Gellarpox Nightmare Hulks, Plague Marines, and Custodes
I’d like to see them add the terrain expansions to the map packs especially Bheta Decima as it would benefit some more variety, as for it being balanced, better minds than myself would have to figure that out
My local group has gone from a relatively good mix of teams to all elites, all the time. At the time of this video, as a non-elite player, it is oppressive and not fun even when playing in a casual setting. I'm straight up not having a good time.
Inquisitors could take 2 AP2 weapons in KTv2. If you bring back that rule it wouldn't change anything because plasma are AP1 now. If you limit them to taking 1 plasma or melta then you can no longer make a legal full inquisitor team (servitor with plasma/melta + pistolier).
Yeah limiting the amount to one for this edition is a bad take. Go back to limiting the AP 2 weapons, essentially forcing only one Melta Gun. Last edition plasma weaponry was much better but this edition they hardly do much to Elites when they sit in a covered position.
I really like the idea with the Troopers on Deathcorp. I played them last edition with the airstrikes, because its not my main team and i dont have a second box :D And i was really pissed that they took away the airstrikes completly... it was so nice and thematic, even if it was not the best option. The "free" ploys just feels like a very cheap excuse... like brood brothers with the split box, and as compensation you get the same thing with the free ploys...
It's definitely a good idea, just needs some tweaks regarding their restrictions. Bringing back a trooper over and over might be a bit powerful, to the point they're so expendable your opponent won't bother to kill them. You'd likely need to restrict it to once per battle/game per Trooper or equal to the number of Trooper operatives you select, the former requiring Reanimation-like token and the latter being flexible and not requiring a marker to keep track of.
The valid target thing becomes real relevant with some ploys, like HotA - From Darkness Death. I've been playing it using strictly the first shooting definition. If not with RAW, you could chain charge your Flayer and Duelist into the team one after the other and get an auto Crit that also triggers the Wicked Blades Rending unless you're playing Arbites.
Why can you not charge a sniper in second level of Volkus? Just curious, new player and we played our first game recently and my friend charged my sniper, we thought it was kind of weird to be able to do, but didn't find anything in the rulebook saying charge requires a target or can't move vertically.
If the sniper is in the middle of the little platform, there's no space to put your model. Especially if the sniper is a Space Marine Eliminator on a 40mm base
Interesting suggestions. Why did you leave the Warpcoven ability to double heal per TP intact? Combined with a 2+ save (and currently; turn off Piercing as well) it feels pretty oppressive.
The only thing I wish is at Toraments there are more of a variety since the last time I went, everyone was some sort of space marine and I was the only non space marine player.....if I remember right, it was Two space marine players, 1 different space marine player, 2 plague marines and 1 legionnaire and I was the only Fellgor Ravanger
For felgore would love it if they just replaced the frenzy ability. What if injury was reversed (+2" and +1ws) to show how dangerous they are mad. Obviously they wont do that but i think its a fun idea.
great suggestions for sure but I'm surprised you didn't bring up the Legionary Heavy Gunner having Ceaseless, Punishing plus Severe if you gave him Tzeentch mark and then if you use Fickle Fates Ploy, they get Relentless on readied operatives. Absolutely insane combo, he doesn't miss. Everytime I shot with him, I would get ATLEAST 2 crits and 3 hits every single time.
@ haha yah i get that, but no way should an operative be getting that many dice modifying abilities, he almost can’t miss, turns a chain cannon into a sniper haha
For Vespids: Drone should act as comms. Navy Breachers: +1 Wound for every operative (Maybe as Equipment?). And some additional ploy, too few mechanics if not playing Gallowdark.
How about letting Dire avengers keep lethal 5+/torrent 2'' (only one extra target) for the entire turning point instead of just the action? Double shoot ploy but doesn't work with the aspect techniques? On another note, does the defence tactics rule work against an ally/enemy alone on an objective?
As far as the Death Korps, what are you opinions on the Gas Bombardment affecting them as well. I feel it would be much more versatile and fitting to lore if they were able to operate within the Gas, gas masks for one reason, and not suffer the -1 apl as well. Am I crazy?
@@CanYouRollaCrit thank you for the response my good sir. I figured you would know best of all sources I could ask since you have the experience to know whether that would be unfairly advantageous or unbalanced.
When are we thinking the inevitable dataslate will drop? I’ve got my fingers crossed for next month so that it’s there for the weekend event at WHW in Jan.
Recycling DKoK troopers sounds like an interesting mechanic, but they should only recycle as warriors & only once (like Necrons only reanimating once per game per operative).
Another suggestion for implacable - either reduce piercing by 1 but once but turn OR usable once per game (but not +1 per game). It gives you decisions of when you need to pop it to make you extra durable once per game. And maybe the Icon can do a free ploy once per game, that way you can bypass inquisition.
@ fellgor have a once per turn ignore piercing as an equipment selection. Ignoring once gives you a little extra durability but there are so many ways to get around it. I think it would def be better as a once per turn instead of ignore for the entire round but only use it once per game. But SOMETHING needs to change, there is no denying. I really don’t think it’s possible for GW to nerf them too hard.
so how would the death Korps endless swarm thing work? like is it EVERYTIME a goober dies he goes back to your drop zone and then can repo, -1 ap and then is just back to normal? If what i said is what you meant I feel like that would be really fun but I feel like it would be a REALLY potent abilitiy
For pathfinders, I would like to see the weapons expert pathfinders get a special rule that when shooting at targets with 4 markerlights, they have Seek rather than Seek Light. This would make them competitive on volkus and not too OP.
We just need to stop buying physical cards and rulebooks. It doesn't matter how long the edition is then. They can just update things that were obvious slip ups and typos immediately. They can wait years for bigger changes, but this isn't a video game. We don't need to program in the fix. We can play with whatever rules we want. It's just nicer when everyone is on the same page. If the main communities are full of posts like "I just bought X, but now I'm sad because I heard it was bad", then that's bad advertising for Kill Team. It's silly to care about any of this of course, but GW definitely has options to reassure players and improve the appearance of the quality of their game.
Thanks for the video! Sadge for not mentioning Gellerpox for the buff section, they got hit too hard this edition. - no proper FNP with 5+ save is brutally bad - plague marines team has a 4+ resilient AND 3+ saves; - only 6-7W more than a regular space marine on Hulks AND still 2 APL (when almost every goddamn regular human leader/elite operative has APL of 3). - Also IMO techno-curse options are bad, at least due to the very low range. My buff list i'd like to see (maybe not all at once): - 3rd APL to Vulgrar (or remove the rule that Hulks cannot do unique actions and must spend +1 AP for the mission actions), because other horde-like killteams have at least 1 Op with 3 APL or a Vox Op (and some have both); - Resilience 4+ or saves 4+ - Rewrite Curses or increase their range.
I'm surprised that Hand of the Archon wasn't mentioned. They've been real oppressive to play against with their ability to shoot and dash back into cover with their pain tokens. I'm also of the opinion that abilities that only require a target to be visible should be changed to valid target.
Down to see a rebalance for the Legionaries (and I play them). I am also desperate for a strat ploy for undivded but I know that's a long shot at this point haha.
Can I ask what you mean by Inq can only take 1 plasma/ melta (like last edition)? They could always take 2 ap2 weapons so they you can take plasma servo and pistolier. It feels like reducing them to 1 makes it so you can’t even take your default team. You literally couldn’t play solo inquisition since you are suppose to take 2 servos and a pistolier which would require at least 2 plasma melta. Do you mean one of each?
I’m not understanding. As far as I’m aware, the nerf was they were capped at 2 total ap2 weapons. Usually you’d take the cannon and the pistolier and then use breachers las volley. Are you saying there was a time between release and this rule were they were capped a SINGLE ap2 gun for the entire team and ancillary? I feel like I’m missing what you are saying, and I don’t remember that rule but I could be wrong.
I think worsen piercing type of rules should change piercing 1 to piercing crits 1 instead of to piercing 0. Would be a nice compromise between having those type of rules vs not having them. Makes piercing 1 weapons not terrible into teams with such rules
@@CanYouRollaCrit I think it wouldnt be too bad if it had more limitaitons that made it actually take skill to use. Like maybe Warpcoven's ploy only works if the shooter is more than 6" away?
I heard an interesting suggestion for Inquisitorial Agents. Lose all the bespoke options for their Requisitioned factions (Kasrkin, Exaction, etc). Going forward, IA can only choose Tempestus Scions, Sisters of Silence and (new) Deathwatch Marines. This would be very thematic and make picking the bespoke factions fashionable again. No chance of it happening though, but it is fun to consider. I mean, who doesn't like Deathwatch?
@@CanYouRollaCrit limit the DW to 2 or 3 operatives and if there's a deep strike component, use rules similar to the Aquilons. (there's a single token you move on the board and you've only got 2 TPs to get them placed. Who am I kidding? This is a pipe dream. lol
I feel like void dancers are fine haha murderous entrance and curtains falls only work together if you roll all crits because the fight ends after a crit and you only get a second hit after hitting with a crit if you roll no normal hits. So definitely not as good as you think it is as it’s entirely up to chance. Good take on the scary teams, I’m hoping for all of those things mentioned to happen
The drones being treated weird and marker lights being clunky continues the long standing tradition of GW struggling to implement Tau rules in a way that isn't clunky.
Rather than all these weird nickle-and-dime reductions to elite teams, just make it so all elite teams are 5 man (save perhaps Phobos). They get to keep all the flavorful aspects and fun abilities, but are brought in line with the competitive norm.
@@CanYouRollaCrit 14W is already pretty beefy, especially with the various forms of damage reduction available to all the elite teams (even AoD can save crits on 5+ and double parry as damage reduction). If Inquisition is nerfed to have fewer piercing guns, I think 5 man elites would be fine. Not S tier, but fine. And they can absolutely leave Phobos at 6 operatives.
Warpcoven is absolutely the most broken. Legionaries are broken on par with them in the all marines version but tzangor build is pretty crazy as well need to tone down that for Warpcoven as well
Every non-competitive player Ive talked to loves this edition over the last edition. I truly feel like we live in different worlds from the competitive players. The people at my local game stores have a great time playing and feel this game is more skill based and less team based than ever (yes, we all do agree Elites>non-elites, but in friendly games most of us just play elites into elites and hordes into hordes). I still like looking at your content, which I totally get is geared towards the competitive crowd, but I feel its an important distinction to make. GW has said they want Kill Team to be a competitive game, so they absolutely should do some balancing to make it good for them. But at the beginning you kinda implied this was a problem for non-competitive play as well, and that may be true in some places, I only know my local area, but our area is loving the edition for non-competitive play.
And just to be clear, not meaning this really as a criticism, but more adding in my two-cents since you said you've talked to some non-competitive players too, so just adding my voice to that group. Love the content and the balance changes you proposed too, just saying some of us non-comps find it fun as is, though not opposed to fine-tuning and changes to further improve
I feel the same, but also feel like the balance for hordes should lean less kill'y and more tricky. Besides deathkorps, just give them 20 max models and everyone will be happy on both sides of the table.
You said it yourself. If you aren't playing elites it's not fun to play into elites. How's that balanced. I want to play my horde teams and have a good time into anyone. Not just other hordes. There's a problem. 😅
im new to the game and still learning but one thing me and my friend discussed is how non elite teams just struggle to hit as well. we think they should be 3+ to hit and in some cases 2+. the reason we think this is because the draw for elites should be from their higher wounds, higher dmg and their faction skills. non elites already generally do worse dmg and have much lower wounds and saves so this would balance them a little in our eyes. the draw of non elites should be their numbers, specialists and faction skills and right now it just feels punishing to us if we arent using our elites. also legionaires are way to strong in our opinion. so much versatility and healing built into their team
@CanYouRollaCrit you think? Maybe it's my inexperience but I think it would put them on a put more of a level playing field. It's not like there aren't already some operatives in swarm teams that have 2+/3+ to hit. Look at the ratlings for example
As for Death Korps, i'd be happy if they just change wording for Dig In and Take Cover back to the old one (to work if DK operative just in cover, not retain any cover saves). Now, saturate makes it completely useless
Am I the only one who checked the.pdf rules from war-community where The Inq Agents Pistolier got Pistol Barrage fixed? (cannot perform if Shooted or viceversa)
@@CanYouRollaCrit just download the Inq Agents rules from war community, you can see they changed the wording, adding the fix of cannot perform if Shooted or viceversa. It's a big change for the faction, nobody said a word, it's not implemented on the app. Love your content John, thanks.
Kroot hounds back to GA2 Meat can be used at the end of the activation. Cutskin damage 3/5 Pathfinders need some of their operative skills back, also a montka that is usable. Drones MUST fly. Either they get back the 3+ or get back the balanced for bounded to combo with the ML. Vespids need to become reliable on something, right now they are bad at everything but flying. Can't kill 7wound models, don't have the numbers to trade, don't have the apl to be safe while shooting, bad at melee, bad at scoring, drone is useless.
Exaction definitively need a buff, it's one of the rare teams to have with only one Devastating Damage and one Piercing Weapon. The should be able to use special ammunition twice a turn (and probably remove the limitation on piercing only 3+ saves).
On the note of inq, I think that the ap nerf would be too much. Not necessarily because of balance but because that could be getting rid of 3 painted and modeled operatives. Also last edition the limitation was only allowing 2 ap2 weapons, which is technically still the case since plasmas were nerfed. I think no more than 2 plasma/melta combined would be fine. Also, maybe make their kasrkin 4+ bs
@@CanYouRollaCrit Don't you think due to switching the number of objectives from 6 to 3 ITD became boring? Fewer rooms (as there would be no reason to enter rooms with no objectives) result in just 3 big open, uninteresting areas to throw your models into. No skirting around, no flanking, no giving up some areas to fortify in others, no blocking of tight corridors, no navigating a maze of doors and tunnels...
@@CanYouRollaCrit if you take the recon dash and win initiative, you get a 20" threat range, making it effectively impossible to dodge an alpha strike, even on long deployment, and you're handing out 2D3 damage to multiple units on conceal behind heavy cover before they've even moved, and then D3 damage every activation after. That's a fair bit more obnoxious than anything else in the game right now, especially when you consider how rare seek heavy is.
Not really. You have 8 operatives. 1 has 9 lives and 4+ save and rest got 8 and 4+ save. Kasrkin have 1 operative with 9 wounds and 4+ saves and you have 9 operatives with 8 wounds and +4 save and one of them can save fallen comrades. Meaning your operatives need to do +25 % damage to break even. Are your weapons that better? No. It is 3/4 for shuriken weapons and hot shot lasthings. Sure melee is deferent beast, but still. This is the reason why I still believe only competitively viable operatives are Striking Scorpions due to they Conceal shenanigan.
Honestly, I just think Pathfinders should allow any operative to use the markerlight ability. It's one of the only teams where their entire faction schtick requires them to spend tonnes of AP to use it, only half their team can apply them, and the benefits are not only highly telegraphed but they actively are punished for attempting to stack them on ready operatives and expended operatives alike, all for benefits that other factions just kinda get. Maybe only operatives with pulse weapons could use the high intensity markerlight, and you replace the targeting optics with this option to balance it. Considering they can't gain a +1 boost to shooting anymore, and your actions are telegraphed heavily if you want to markerlight and shoot with any of the heavier guns (since they couldn't move much that turn anyways) I think it would be a fair trade. Oh and please give the shas'ui the knife back, even just 4 attacks at 2-3 would give them a second operative that can at least survive in melee and it's just more fun.
@@CanYouRollaCrit maybe just all the drone options then? The gunners I don't think would be too good, considering to use this they would have to stand still and spend an AP to make their gun slightly better (since they wouldn't be able to high intensity markerlight, they're not pulse weapons) which, again, is heavily telegraphed. Best case scenario you're playing against an opponent who let you stack 3 markerlights on an operative they moved behind light cover directly in front of your gunner. More often than not you'd be spending an AP to give your gunner balanced on a target they already had saturate on in exchange for being stuck in the open on engage. It just feels like the team suffers heavily from literally half their team not being able to apply their entire faction rule.
Maybe I'm missing something but, yeah, Void Dancers climbing for 1" is cool, but when dropping they have to pay the full amount!?!? (i.e. no benefit) Is that how people are playing them competitively?
The warpflamer nerf would just make people switch to bolters. They are barely worse with the dev1 equipment right now. Instead I would just nerf their saves to 3+. 2+ saves makes a bunch of horde teams completely helpless against rubrics.
Thank you for ignoring the Nightlords with your elite slander. We have not committed any war crimes yet. They just need the faq clarification on Vox's scream from the last edition. Imo the return to darkness ploy feels useless in most games. Dirty fighter is my new favorite ploy. It feels so good to get someone off guard and gain a free activation.
I only sad hammer and i always deploy the striking scorpions as 3+ save and all operatives as 10 wounds. This makes my phobos team want to take their combat blades and keep it to being a shooting war. Either way, 10 wounds 3+ save striking scorpions still drop like flies. I dont see why GW made them so weak. Maybe its because they want you to get the howling banshees and dire avengers to fill out the team... but i thought they balanced it for a full team of striking scorpions? Is blades of khaine actually just scorpions or no? It wildy changes the team compositions to include howling banshees and dire avengers, although ive never played them because i dont own those boxes
@@CanYouRollaCrit I am very new to the game and I only have a few teams. It kind of seems like Killteam is two distinct games. Elite v Elites and horde vs horde. What I just learned is that if we try to balance the hordes and elites together, they "step on" other teams with things like wounds value that you mentioned. Besides making Eldar as tough as Orks and Scouts, what does that really affect? If we look at the ceiling with operatives like AoD heavy gunner at 18 wounds, and patriarch with 21, why are we afraid to make the eldar, orks, scouts, and everyone plus 1 or 2 wounds? It seems like Elite teams are the only ones breaking the game with their wounds counts. You could try killing an elite on all 4 turning points and get no success, and the elite operative complete objectives like nobody was bothering them to begin with. From what I see in the community, Killteam is either two seperate games (elites v elites, or horde v horde) OR the balancing for all elite teams is way out of whack. I know you're trying to address these issues with your balance changes, but what is this all for? It seems that all Games Workshop needs to do is make elites less wounds, or make the hordes have more wounds. The more wounds in the game overall, the more operatives left on the table at the end of the game after 4 turning points. Is the issue the fact that we have only 4 turning points and not 5? Is 4 turning points too many? Most people are playing elites as opposed to hordes with their weekly game store time for a reason. I can only speak on what I read and see. I am a sad hammerer. I still need to focus hard to comprehend all the rules as they're played. By no means am I an experienced player. The team I am most familiar with is Phobos strike team, and while they are 6 operatives like AoD, they have nowhere near the firepower and none of Phobos can use the silent weapon rule. For all intents and purposes, Phobos feels like a weaker but slightly more flexible Angels of Death team to me. Comparing the two teams in a fight leaves Phobos wanting on kills and objectives, but Phobos feels balanced and fun when fighting against Wyrmblade or Striking scorpions. When I play my few teams against eachother I don't catch all the rules and my games go slow. However, from what I've experienced it appears that Phobos is the only Elite team that doesn't absolutely stomp out horde teams, and that inspires hope in me in for the balance of the game in general. I know I'll be stomped on my first game at a store no matter which team I bring, so I'm under no illusion that bringing Plague Marines will make for anything except a longer first game. (Still won't win xD) I like my Phobos team. I hope they and I can do well when we get into playing games at the stores. I hope my Phobos aren't nerfed, because I don't think they're a cancerous elite team, but I do see this disparity in the community between horde and elite players. Can we just have Elite Killteam and Horde Killteam? Otherwise, even as a new player I can see that some elite teams are pushing the ceiling so high, many horde teams are left in the dust and would literally need 20 operatives on the board to equalize against Angels of Death or Plague Marines. When you have two distinct archetypes in any game, any archetype that falls in between those two end up being worse than either purist archetypes. The old addage. "It does both, but neither very well". When you only have two distinct archetypes in a game, one will always be the stronger counter to the other. This is why rock paper scissors has 3 archetypes and nothing in between. TL;DR Im new and i'm having a great time!
Blinding light has gotta go. Either change the range to 6” instead of 2”, and or make the shot obscured instead of just no effect and still lost the apl.
I don’t see why the breachers, who were effectively unilaterally nerfed for non gameplay reasons wouldn’t deserve a buff of at least equal quality. Also, dude that’s a lot of nerfs for the inquisition you’re calling for.
If you make Breachers 8 wounds etc, then they become crazy which we don't need Yeah, but it's mostly stuff they had last edition when they were doing really well and I did the same/more for Legio and WC
@@CanYouRollaCrit I'm not sure I'm against 8 wound breachers with one fewer operative, but more importantly, a minor change like that wouldn't do a whole lot for them I think rn. Also, the game is different now, I don't think a revert would be fair to the inquisition.
Losing conceal for snipers - isn't the problem. Problem is - Heavy rule. It should be Heavy(REP) to make them actually able to do something. And Blooded sniper riffle ISN'T same as Death corps. DK have dev3 and Blooded stays in conceal, but do only 1MW on crit. Staying in conceal isn't fair mechanic for them in my opinion. If people don't like losing it after 1st shot, I would offer something like 1st shot - from conceal. 2nd shot on 4+ can be done rom conceal, otherwise - from engage. 3rd shot must be done from engage
@@CanYouRollaCrit sorry you are right, I meant Heavy(Dash). And for guns - name can be same, but guns can be customized for different purposes, keeping their names) I would like to think that Blooded sniper just can mount silencer(yeah, I know, silencer on las weapon is funny) or flash supressor or other part from very far future that works similar way - trades damage for lesser shot visibility. I mean, you can't just give Krieg sniper permament silent without giving Blooded's sniper Devastating 3 =)
For the kasrkin man at arms option "ice on veins" feels pretty useless, taking on count that almost most of the kill teams dosent deal 4 damage at normal attack dice.
gellerpox also need a buff!! they are pretty bad. they used to be fast and durable, now they are neither. I agreed it was too much in the past edition, but now they are just sad
They are really bad. 3APL on Hulks, more movement on Hulks, auto -1 dmg on Hulks on 4+ dmg. Some combo of these. Way too much firepower out there. Hulks dont hold up. Maybe some healing mechanic? Slow but consistent. Hulk heal 2 per TP in the ready phase, others heal 1?
@@jamesreed2475 the healing mechanic its kinda of a hierotek thing. But i feel if they returned to their previous feel no pain mechanic, it would be fine. at least they would be durable. Dont know if their old mechanic was too broken. 3APL on the hulks could be nice, since the other 3 need to spend 2 action to get objectives. but yeah, they definetely need something.
@@jamesreed2475 3 things they can do 1 - make their feel no pain reduction without needing to roll. Just reduce the damage by 1 from 3/4 damege they take. I dont think that is going to be broken at all, just gonna give them some toughness, which they desperately need. The way it works right now is basically useless 2 - make their techno curse affect within 2 inches of hulks and remake the equipment that gives this effect. 3 - rework the Drawn to hum strategy ploy to allow the hulks to gain 1 inch if they are moving towards an objective and they need to finish the move or charge CLOSER to the objective instead of within 1 inch of it. The way that it is now, is one of the worst play i've ever seen, is also basically useless
I like squad games' inquisition suggestion of getting scions or sisters. Nothing from other teams. Forces inquisition to hace its own identity, and stops the whole "i want to play jadrkin so ill just play inquisition".
Nah. Elite teams are cheaper, require less brain load, and can offer shorter games. GW knows this and they also want new people to take up the game. That why the starter box had elites and the hivestorm box didn't.
@ they are only “fine” because there are other elites who are simply better. The moment those are nerfed they immediately rise up, because this whole edition was developed with a focus on making elites good. It’s the whole rationale you used for this video: if you only need the top, what’s immediately below will take its place. And… do you really think Harlequins, which you want nerfed,are stronger than AoD?
@Tulkash01 AoD only have the Sniper as an issue on Gallowdark. Phobos are still 12 wounds so are very manageable. Nemesis Claw also die to P shooting. I can't see them being as broken as the other elites
I played a lot of death korp before the changes and the two things that still burn me about this update are one: our leader has 4+ shooting with the plasma pistol while the blooded have 3+ on theirs (gw just decided to make us worse), and 2: the death korp sniper has heavy, not heavy (dash), meaning for the stationary shot you truly can’t move at all, unlike every other comparable sniper in kill team currently.
A few snipers have just Heavy without Heavy (Dash) in their stationary profile (Kasrkin f.e.). However, I am for adding Dash only for all of them except, maybe, a more versatile Komandoz one.
@@CanYouRollaCrit And not only that but Blooded Chieftain is forced to take more shitty melees when choosing more powerful ranged. While Guardsmen leader (forgot the name) can combine all pistol variants with all melees (except bayonet IRC)! So he can have a plasma pistol AND power sword simultaneously.
dude I love your videos but nemesis claw is too broken I cant get within 6 inches of them cause of their melee and if I shoot from afar the obscured is horrible when shooting with my devastating weapon. some nerf to make it so the range i need is 8 inches would be much better for me (midnight clad)
@ no, I think the legionaries are some hard hits, but I tend to agree they are just weirdly too good. Inquisition is just ridiculous at moment. It just feels like a cheat using them.
IMO the first killteam was unbalanced AND uninteresting but we all loved it anyways. This time around, the elites all seem pretty balanced around eachother with the vespid n tempestus feeling like the 2.0 version of killteam, so I think its fair to hold criticism until they release the halflings and orcs box to see how good/bad the halflings are compared to the elite team its paired against. Each old version of the game had poor balance that they eventually figured out, but this version feels like they're trying to shoot for as much localized flavor as possible and figuring the balance out after a few months, but its only been about a month and a half so perhaps we should all wait before accidentally homoginizing all the teams to feel the same. We were told all the old teams would be phased out anyways, so we should expect the balance to be skewed between the two too. At least until theres slightly more non horde teams released then we can criticize the themes and limit issues. lest we just turn everything back to the unflavorful borin old compendium teams in the name of balance
50% of them. I don't care which ones. I just feel we would get a better game with less teams. Easier to keep balanced. Less mental load remembering everything.
Having played Fellgor exclusively since they came out, only frenzy on readied units would neuter this team, I genuinely think it would make them one of the worst teams in the game. I know you have some deep goat trauma but I’d suggest just try playing them that way against almost any other team and I think you will seriously struggle to eke out a win.
@@CanYouRollaCrit While I appreciate your reply it does feel a bit laconic. I'm curious why they feel 'gatekeepy' to you. Their melee is slightly above average however their shooting is well below average making their playstyle fairly inflexible. Once the shamen is dealt with their only survivability comes from frenzy, which I will fully admit is a powerful mechanic, but I do think people are slightly more scared of it than they need to be. I frequently do not get a second turn with my frenzied units. Personally I think if you want to entertain a nerf to this team then killing them out of frenzy with a crit or a second damage on a normal success in shooting, as is the case in melee, is a much better alternative while maintaining the integrity of the mechanic. Even then I think that still drops the team to lower mid-tier, but c'est la vie.
I'd be on board with eliminating Piercing Reduction if P2 was abolished. Piercing should not have a numeric stat, just reduce by 1 always. Silly P2 weapons like melta, multi-melta, fusion pistol, and orbital strike just become regular Piercing (ie - P1) and gain Severe. Otherwise, just make a reduction of P1 turn into Piercing Crits 1 instead of nothing and reduce all Chaos Marines from 14W to 13W.
Usually I agree with you John, but I would like to have the plus one BS from markerlights again, which fits with lore, or make the Marksman a 2+ like every other sniper.
I don't get why Pathfinders in a horrible state. I played against them only once this edition but they analysed a group of my folks hiding behind a barricade and for the rest of the game were consistently capable of getting 4 markerlights on everyone so I essentially played a game where terrain provided no protection whatsoever for me.
@@CanYouRollaCrit Well, there was. But the Pathfinder were capable of recon sweeping into a position which allowed them to control the relevant corridors after their first kills and the uselessness of light cover meant I couldn't reasonably react to this because I could not safely reposition. In effect my operatives were besieged and stuck.
@@CanYouRollaCrit Well, I suppose that's a reasonable point to make, considering there are officially supported maps. I'll openly admit that nobody amongst us has the desire to shell out for GW territory and we mostly make do with the '21 starter set terrain, treating scrap heaps as heavy. And you might say: "That's not how the game is supposed to be played", but the thing is that last edition it wasn't either, yet it still worked perfectly fine with no detriment to the fun whatsoever.
You lose marker lights every time you move tho anddd they hit on 4s... and if there is heavy terrain they can't do anything about it.. pathys are weak asf right now
most people and i mean like 80% dont care about balance we just want cool narrative stuff thats fun.... this whole ''make them all space marines'' thing is going to kill the game
Adding in a change here, I got the Inq change mixed up so I'd change it to 1 melta and 1 plasma max
Also for Scouts, er, maybe +1 Operative? Or give them +2 scouting points 😅
I'm not using them until we get that extra operative back 🙏🏻
They're still fun 😅
@@CanYouRollaCrit i will always play my boys, I had a lot of fun converting and kit bashing them for my first event of last edition at Warhammer world, and I added stuff to make them look like Dead Space characters. And making the new specialists from the new kit was a lot of fun too!
@@HB2K-h8m they're still pretty baller rn tho. I do miss him as well
My new kill team opinions just dropped
Can't cite them as credible 👀
As much good as it would do to give the Death Korps perma concealed on their sniper. I think just a blanket Concealed Position on every sniper going forward is better given the new buffs to Vantage and if GW is going to create more "Level 2" Vantage points. Silent Snipers are just terrible to play around if there's an imbalanced amount of Vantage terrain.
I would deffo be a fan of that
@@CanYouRollaCrit the blooded sniper is much worse though, only MW1 instead of 3
Totally agree about Concealed Location, it feels completely random because the Concealed Location snipers aren't any stronger than permanent Silent ones. Stuff like throwing knifes or other weapons that literally don't make a noise, Silent makes sense. A weapon that makes a huge bang and your mate's head explodes? You're gonna know where that shot came from.
"Striking Scorpions should be 3+"
@Squad-Games has entered the chat...
3+ SAVE OR NOTHING
I wish they would implement a minimum range on sniper rifles. It would force the sniper to switch over to their pistol.
Oooh I'd love more minimum ranges
There is a minimum range. It is 2 inches. Because if you're within 1 inch you're in melee control range 😂
I'd suggest not being able to go on Guard when counteracting. Giving Elites the ability to go on Guard potentially twice is a bit too strong now that despite being obscured you can also get shot.
Ooooh yeah you also shouldn't be able to also guard then counteract
Super agree with these points! Also Mike Cortez is a huge asset with the community with bringing a spotlight to problems with rules. He is NOT a toxic player but sees issues where toxic players can abuse loop holes
Yup, agreed on all points!
Corsairs can farm a CP once per game, so it makes sense to limit the Legionaries to that same threshold.
Yup, makes it fairer
Yeah or at least a roll
@@CrimsonTemplar2 phobos inf commsman has Strategic Oversight. In the Ready step of each Strategy phase, when you gain CP, if this operative is in the killzone and not within Control Range of enemy operatives, you can use this rule. If you do, roll one D6: on a 4+, you gain one additional CP.
I like this version of extra CP per turning point. It's based on a single dice roll and you have a 50% chance of getting it. Do corsairs get their extra CP differently? Please don't make an argument for nerfing my precious phobois
@andrewalochner cosairs is a strategic gambit, roll a d3 if the result is higher than the current turning point, gain a CP and you cannot use this ability for the rest of the battle.
I say this as someone who loves Warpcoven: Rubrics should not have a 2+ save.
Also, I like the idea of Warding working as it does now, but only against shooters that are 6" or more away (and maybe 8" if its a P1 weapon)
I actually like Rubrics with the +2 save 😅
@@CanYouRollaCrit I just feel like its too strong, even without ignoring piecing. The only team that I would be ok potentially havinga 2+ save is Gellarpox Nightmare Hulks, Plague Marines, and Custodes
@parkerberke4064 ah being move 5 helps a lot balance it
@@CanYouRollaCrit If they were heavy (reposition) it would, but move 5 + dash + shoot really doesn't feel that slow at all.
I’d like to see them add the terrain expansions to the map packs especially Bheta Decima as it would benefit some more variety, as for it being balanced, better minds than myself would have to figure that out
Would love that but don't think they will due to limited release ):
@ yeah I see your point but would be nice to have the option for people that do have them, maybe something another credible person could come up with
My local group has gone from a relatively good mix of teams to all elites, all the time. At the time of this video, as a non-elite player, it is oppressive and not fun even when playing in a casual setting. I'm straight up not having a good time.
Yeah that's the stuff which makes me sad to hear ):
Inquisitors could take 2 AP2 weapons in KTv2. If you bring back that rule it wouldn't change anything because plasma are AP1 now. If you limit them to taking 1 plasma or melta then you can no longer make a legal full inquisitor team (servitor with plasma/melta + pistolier).
Yeah limiting the amount to one for this edition is a bad take. Go back to limiting the AP 2 weapons, essentially forcing only one Melta Gun. Last edition plasma weaponry was much better but this edition they hardly do much to Elites when they sit in a covered position.
I really like the idea with the Troopers on Deathcorp.
I played them last edition with the airstrikes, because its not my main team and i dont have a second box :D
And i was really pissed that they took away the airstrikes completly... it was so nice and thematic, even if it was not the best option.
The "free" ploys just feels like a very cheap excuse... like brood brothers with the split box, and as compensation you get the same thing with the free ploys...
Yeah, I think it's a nice and thematic change too. Means your home objective is effectively always safe
It's definitely a good idea, just needs some tweaks regarding their restrictions. Bringing back a trooper over and over might be a bit powerful, to the point they're so expendable your opponent won't bother to kill them. You'd likely need to restrict it to once per battle/game per Trooper or equal to the number of Trooper operatives you select, the former requiring Reanimation-like token and the latter being flexible and not requiring a marker to keep track of.
@kloudknight7511 yeah I'd be down with those limits!
Honestly this change is so fun I would be mining my vet guard again overnight
The valid target thing becomes real relevant with some ploys, like HotA - From Darkness Death.
I've been playing it using strictly the first shooting definition. If not with RAW, you could chain charge your Flayer and Duelist into the team one after the other and get an auto Crit that also triggers the Wicked Blades Rending unless you're playing Arbites.
Yeah it's really odd overall
Could you explain? I don’t think I quite get the interaction
Why can you not charge a sniper in second level of Volkus? Just curious, new player and we played our first game recently and my friend charged my sniper, we thought it was kind of weird to be able to do, but didn't find anything in the rulebook saying charge requires a target or can't move vertically.
Ah you have to end a charge where your model can place. So you can stand on the edge of the vantage to make it impossible to be charged
If the sniper is in the middle of the little platform, there's no space to put your model. Especially if the sniper is a Space Marine Eliminator on a 40mm base
Interesting suggestions. Why did you leave the Warpcoven ability to double heal per TP intact? Combined with a 2+ save (and currently; turn off Piercing as well) it feels pretty oppressive.
It is but I'd do that after if the current changes did nothing
From where do you have the info which teams are attending at worlds? can u share this?
Yeah covered it in my worlds video (:
The only thing I wish is at Toraments there are more of a variety since the last time I went, everyone was some sort of space marine and I was the only non space marine player.....if I remember right, it was Two space marine players, 1 different space marine player, 2 plague marines and 1 legionnaire and I was the only Fellgor Ravanger
Yeah faction variety kinda sucks atm
For felgore would love it if they just replaced the frenzy ability. What if injury was reversed (+2" and +1ws) to show how dangerous they are mad. Obviously they wont do that but i think its a fun idea.
I would love that aha
great suggestions for sure but I'm surprised you didn't bring up the Legionary Heavy Gunner having Ceaseless, Punishing plus Severe if you gave him Tzeentch mark and then if you use Fickle Fates Ploy, they get Relentless on readied operatives. Absolutely insane combo, he doesn't miss. Everytime I shot with him, I would get ATLEAST 2 crits and 3 hits every single time.
Ah it's because it's not optimal to run 😅
@ haha yah i get that, but no way should an operative be getting that many dice modifying abilities, he almost can’t miss, turns a chain cannon into a sniper haha
For Vespids: Drone should act as comms.
Navy Breachers: +1 Wound for every operative (Maybe as Equipment?). And some additional ploy, too few mechanics if not playing Gallowdark.
Nah doesn't make sense for Oversight
Breachers shouldn't be 8w again
How about letting Dire avengers keep lethal 5+/torrent 2'' (only one extra target) for the entire turning point instead of just the action? Double shoot ploy but doesn't work with the aspect techniques? On another note, does the defence tactics rule work against an ally/enemy alone on an objective?
Oooh yeah that'd be great!
As far as the Death Korps, what are you opinions on the Gas Bombardment affecting them as well. I feel it would be much more versatile and fitting to lore if they were able to operate within the Gas, gas masks for one reason, and not suffer the -1 apl as well. Am I crazy?
True, that would help them
@@CanYouRollaCrit thank you for the response my good sir. I figured you would know best of all sources I could ask since you have the experience to know whether that would be unfairly advantageous or unbalanced.
How would you bring Gellerpox up to balance? They seem pretty unplayable currently :(
Hard to buff them without breaking them tbh
When are we thinking the inevitable dataslate will drop? I’ve got my fingers crossed for next month so that it’s there for the weekend event at WHW in Jan.
I'm hoping mid December
@@CanYouRollaCrit As someone who is trying to make Vespid Work, I need ignore piercing to go away ASAP
It just did, but only minor changes yet
Recycling DKoK troopers sounds like an interesting mechanic, but they should only recycle as warriors & only once (like Necrons only reanimating once per game per operative).
Yeah I'm down with that, Troopers are the basic warriors (:
Another suggestion for implacable - either reduce piercing by 1 but once but turn OR usable once per game (but not +1 per game). It gives you decisions of when you need to pop it to make you extra durable once per game. And maybe the Icon can do a free ploy once per game, that way you can bypass inquisition.
Hmm maybe, I'm just not a fan of the ignoring piercing 😅
I'd be down for that icon change!
@ fellgor have a once per turn ignore piercing as an equipment selection. Ignoring once gives you a little extra durability but there are so many ways to get around it. I think it would def be better as a once per turn instead of ignore for the entire round but only use it once per game. But SOMETHING needs to change, there is no denying. I really don’t think it’s possible for GW to nerf them too hard.
You forget buff Scions! :D How would you do that? :)
Scions good 😭
@@CanYouRollaCrit sounds like lies! :D
so how would the death Korps endless swarm thing work? like is it EVERYTIME a goober dies he goes back to your drop zone and then can repo, -1 ap and then is just back to normal? If what i said is what you meant I feel like that would be really fun but I feel like it would be a REALLY potent abilitiy
Could cap it to once per operative etc
For pathfinders, I would like to see the weapons expert pathfinders get a special rule that when shooting at targets with 4 markerlights, they have Seek rather than Seek Light. This would make them competitive on volkus and not too OP.
Ah that's too strong
YES PLEASE TO THOSE BLADES OF KHAINE BUFFS! PLEASE! not sorry for caps, praying to the GW Devs!
Look lets just buff those Aeldari 👀
@@CanYouRollaCrit 👀yes
IMO they need much more help than just stat boosts
Elaborate, brother @@parkerberke4064
@@parkerberke4064 Maybe, but you have to be careful with them. There's a lot of utility in their Aspect Techniques. This would be a great start.
Shouldn't it be control range of your friendly operative for shooting
Nah, enemy
@ so if I'm shooting a target and there is a enemy operative behind him less than one inch away that isn't a valid target?????
25:11 one warpflamer is the correct nerf. Dropping the damage just makes warpflamers not worth taking over warriors
Either or would be good
I can't say how much I agree with all of your points, especially nerfing Legionary. Good luck in Worlds however with them!
Aha thanks (:
Balance meticulously adjusted over a couple years thrown into a bin in one move to make way for the new edition.
Totally worth it...
I mean, the balance wasn't great towards the end of the edition, although I would prefer 4 or 5 year editions over 3 years
We just need to stop buying physical cards and rulebooks.
It doesn't matter how long the edition is then. They can just update things that were obvious slip ups and typos immediately. They can wait years for bigger changes, but this isn't a video game. We don't need to program in the fix. We can play with whatever rules we want. It's just nicer when everyone is on the same page.
If the main communities are full of posts like "I just bought X, but now I'm sad because I heard it was bad", then that's bad advertising for Kill Team. It's silly to care about any of this of course, but GW definitely has options to reassure players and improve the appearance of the quality of their game.
Wait, somebody buys physical cards?
Why!?!?!
Finally got a game with good death guard rules and it turns out they are way to good. Be interesting to see how my buddies kommando's do into them.
Kommandos will find it rough 😅
Nerf incoming "hopefully"
I've played kommandos into and just got my ass whipped. Don't have enough output to threaten them and they one round basically anything they touch.
Thanks for the video!
Sadge for not mentioning Gellerpox for the buff section, they got hit too hard this edition.
- no proper FNP with 5+ save is brutally bad - plague marines team has a 4+ resilient AND 3+ saves;
- only 6-7W more than a regular space marine on Hulks AND still 2 APL (when almost every goddamn regular human leader/elite operative has APL of 3).
- Also IMO techno-curse options are bad, at least due to the very low range.
My buff list i'd like to see (maybe not all at once):
- 3rd APL to Vulgrar (or remove the rule that Hulks cannot do unique actions and must spend +1 AP for the mission actions), because other horde-like killteams have at least 1 Op with 3 APL or a Vox Op (and some have both);
- Resilience 4+ or saves 4+
- Rewrite Curses or increase their range.
I think it's kinda hard to buff Gpox atm ):
No kasrkin Buffs?
They just need ignoring Piercing removed
I'm surprised that Hand of the Archon wasn't mentioned. They've been real oppressive to play against with their ability to shoot and dash back into cover with their pain tokens. I'm also of the opinion that abilities that only require a target to be visible should be changed to valid target.
I think maybe look at them after top 3 teams are hit
brother thats not even that opressive, any units that has three apl can do that.
Down to see a rebalance for the Legionaries (and I play them). I am also desperate for a strat ploy for undivded but I know that's a long shot at this point haha.
I don't think we'll get an undivided ploy sadly );
@CanYouRollaCrit my poor, poor Iron Warriors. We'll stick to Tzeentch for all my bolters, I guess.
Can I ask what you mean by Inq can only take 1 plasma/ melta (like last edition)? They could always take 2 ap2 weapons so they you can take plasma servo and pistolier. It feels like reducing them to 1 makes it so you can’t even take your default team.
You literally couldn’t play solo inquisition since you are suppose to take 2 servos and a pistolier which would require at least 2 plasma melta.
Do you mean one of each?
No, last edition you could not take the plasma and melta (more than 2 AP2 guns) on their first balance pass
I’m not understanding.
As far as I’m aware, the nerf was they were capped at 2 total ap2 weapons. Usually you’d take the cannon and the pistolier and then use breachers las volley.
Are you saying there was a time between release and this rule were they were capped a SINGLE ap2 gun for the entire team and ancillary? I feel like I’m missing what you are saying, and I don’t remember that rule but I could be wrong.
@CaseySummers29 yeah they were. So in general they took plasma pistolier and heavy bolter servitor
No you could always take the plasma servitor and pistolier. You just couldn't take any more after them.
I think worsen piercing type of rules should change piercing 1 to piercing crits 1 instead of to piercing 0. Would be a nice compromise between having those type of rules vs not having them. Makes piercing 1 weapons not terrible into teams with such rules
Nah just remove it, too strong of an ability
@@CanYouRollaCrit I think it wouldnt be too bad if it had more limitaitons that made it actually take skill to use. Like maybe Warpcoven's ploy only works if the shooter is more than 6" away?
I heard an interesting suggestion for Inquisitorial Agents. Lose all the bespoke options for their Requisitioned factions (Kasrkin, Exaction, etc). Going forward, IA can only choose Tempestus Scions, Sisters of Silence and (new) Deathwatch Marines. This would be very thematic and make picking the bespoke factions fashionable again. No chance of it happening though, but it is fun to consider. I mean, who doesn't like Deathwatch?
Yeah but now you give them deep striking kasrkin 😬
@@CanYouRollaCrit limit the DW to 2 or 3 operatives and if there's a deep strike component, use rules similar to the Aquilons. (there's a single token you move on the board and you've only got 2 TPs to get them placed. Who am I kidding? This is a pipe dream. lol
How you can buff the gellerpox boys?
I'm not sure ):
@@CanYouRollaCrit :(
Khorne Melee Damage should cap at 7 IMO. Being able to hit 8 on two of your operatives is insane
Nah gotta give Khorne something considering it's the weakest Mark atm
@CanYouRollaCrit it's the weakest? Are we playing the same game? 😂
I feel like void dancers are fine haha murderous entrance and curtains falls only work together if you roll all crits because the fight ends after a crit and you only get a second hit after hitting with a crit if you roll no normal hits. So definitely not as good as you think it is as it’s entirely up to chance. Good take on the scary teams, I’m hoping for all of those things mentioned to happen
True but there are still other stackable stuff imo
The drones being treated weird and marker lights being clunky continues the long standing tradition of GW struggling to implement Tau rules in a way that isn't clunky.
Ah kinda, just weird they removed fly from them
Rather than all these weird nickle-and-dime reductions to elite teams, just make it so all elite teams are 5 man (save perhaps Phobos). They get to keep all the flavorful aspects and fun abilities, but are brought in line with the competitive norm.
You'd have to buff their wounds if you reduce all elites (can't exclude Phobos) down to 5 operatives
@@CanYouRollaCrit 14W is already pretty beefy, especially with the various forms of damage reduction available to all the elite teams (even AoD can save crits on 5+ and double parry as damage reduction). If Inquisition is nerfed to have fewer piercing guns, I think 5 man elites would be fine. Not S tier, but fine.
And they can absolutely leave Phobos at 6 operatives.
Warpcoven is absolutely the most broken. Legionaries are broken on par with them in the all marines version but tzangor build is pretty crazy as well need to tone down that for Warpcoven as well
No scout buffs 😢
Oh maybe +1 operative? 😅
Plague Marines: Let me take models from the plague marine box. Or at least give me the option for soldiers, like every other team.
If they get toned down, sure
@ just the models, not the old rules 😅 AoD have the ability to add beyond the blind box releases, idk why death guard can't.
Every non-competitive player Ive talked to loves this edition over the last edition. I truly feel like we live in different worlds from the competitive players. The people at my local game stores have a great time playing and feel this game is more skill based and less team based than ever (yes, we all do agree Elites>non-elites, but in friendly games most of us just play elites into elites and hordes into hordes). I still like looking at your content, which I totally get is geared towards the competitive crowd, but I feel its an important distinction to make. GW has said they want Kill Team to be a competitive game, so they absolutely should do some balancing to make it good for them. But at the beginning you kinda implied this was a problem for non-competitive play as well, and that may be true in some places, I only know my local area, but our area is loving the edition for non-competitive play.
And just to be clear, not meaning this really as a criticism, but more adding in my two-cents since you said you've talked to some non-competitive players too, so just adding my voice to that group. Love the content and the balance changes you proposed too, just saying some of us non-comps find it fun as is, though not opposed to fine-tuning and changes to further improve
Nah it's all good. Generally the non competitive folk are finding the level of marines here a bit much but moreso for stuff like 2nd level vantage
I feel the same, but also feel like the balance for hordes should lean less kill'y and more tricky. Besides deathkorps, just give them 20 max models and everyone will be happy on both sides of the table.
You said it yourself. If you aren't playing elites it's not fun to play into elites. How's that balanced. I want to play my horde teams and have a good time into anyone. Not just other hordes. There's a problem. 😅
im new to the game and still learning but one thing me and my friend discussed is how non elite teams just struggle to hit as well. we think they should be 3+ to hit and in some cases 2+. the reason we think this is because the draw for elites should be from their higher wounds, higher dmg and their faction skills.
non elites already generally do worse dmg and have much lower wounds and saves so this would balance them a little in our eyes. the draw of non elites should be their numbers, specialists and faction skills and right now it just feels punishing to us if we arent using our elites.
also legionaires are way to strong in our opinion. so much versatility and healing built into their team
Ah nah that would make horde teams way too good again
@CanYouRollaCrit you think? Maybe it's my inexperience but I think it would put them on a put more of a level playing field.
It's not like there aren't already some operatives in swarm teams that have 2+/3+ to hit. Look at the ratlings for example
What about our Farstalker Kinband? I feel like Kinband needs a small buff.
I think they're really good atm, just need the meta to settle
Pathfinders need a reworked montka
That would be great
As for Death Korps, i'd be happy if they just change wording for Dig In and Take Cover back to the old one (to work if DK operative just in cover, not retain any cover saves). Now, saturate makes it completely useless
Kinda but does make saturate useful
@@CanYouRollaCritbut not against kasrkin, only DK ;)
Am I the only one who checked the.pdf rules from war-community where The Inq Agents Pistolier got Pistol Barrage fixed? (cannot perform if Shooted or viceversa)
It's not fixed on the official app. (even if you download it again)
They changed the wording?
@@CanYouRollaCrit just download the Inq Agents rules from war community, you can see they changed the wording, adding the fix of cannot perform if Shooted or viceversa. It's a big change for the faction, nobody said a word, it's not implemented on the app. Love your content John, thanks.
@OnEyesBoo oooh
@@CanYouRollaCrit now. At Worlds. Who s gonna belive in, app or .pdf? aahah
Valid target: Perhaps it is because they want operators to be able to be validly target for other than shooting e.g. psychic attacks?
Kinda but they did change most psychic powers that worked that way into shooting attacks
Kroot hounds back to GA2
Meat can be used at the end of the activation.
Cutskin damage 3/5
Pathfinders need some of their operative skills back, also a montka that is usable. Drones MUST fly.
Either they get back the 3+ or get back the balanced for bounded to combo with the ML.
Vespids need to become reliable on something, right now they are bad at everything but flying. Can't kill 7wound models, don't have the numbers to trade, don't have the apl to be safe while shooting, bad at melee, bad at scoring, drone is useless.
I think Hounds are oddly better at GA1
Issue is if drones get Fly they Fly 8"
Exaction definitively need a buff, it's one of the rare teams to have with only one Devastating Damage and one Piercing Weapon. The should be able to use special ammunition twice a turn (and probably remove the limitation on piercing only 3+ saves).
I'd be down with that. Difficulty they have is if you buff them, they buff them for Inquisition too 😅
@@CanYouRollaCrit : You're right they also suffer from Inquisition being a better fit as a team.
Actually the special ammunition being a faction equipment it wouldn't impact Inquisition
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Playing first killteam game soon
On the note of inq, I think that the ap nerf would be too much. Not necessarily because of balance but because that could be getting rid of 3 painted and modeled operatives. Also last edition the limitation was only allowing 2 ap2 weapons, which is technically still the case since plasmas were nerfed. I think no more than 2 plasma/melta combined would be fine.
Also, maybe make their kasrkin 4+ bs
Yeah fixed that in comments
I would love inq Kasrkin hitting on 4s
Nothing for Angels of Death ?
Also, are there any alternatives to those horrible Three Room ITD maps from the Core Book?
Nah I think they're fine at the moment. I believe Squad Games has done their own
@@CanYouRollaCrit Don't you think due to switching the number of objectives from 6 to 3 ITD became boring? Fewer rooms (as there would be no reason to enter rooms with no objectives) result in just 3 big open, uninteresting areas to throw your models into. No skirting around, no flanking, no giving up some areas to fortify in others, no blocking of tight corridors, no navigating a maze of doors and tunnels...
I'd definitely add some nerfs for HOTA, they have the only grenade in the game that only needs visibility, not valid target.
Stun grenades and the pox grenade work the same way too tho 🤔
@@CanYouRollaCrit if you take the recon dash and win initiative, you get a 20" threat range, making it effectively impossible to dodge an alpha strike, even on long deployment, and you're handing out 2D3 damage to multiple units on conceal behind heavy cover before they've even moved, and then D3 damage every activation after.
That's a fair bit more obnoxious than anything else in the game right now, especially when you consider how rare seek heavy is.
Another vote for this - tagging operatives in their deployment zone whilst on conceal is silly. And it could spike and do 15 damage across the game.
Ah, they could make it work on a +4 base or remove the 1inch blast then
@@timreevesseek heavy shouldn't exist in the game at all. Neither should magical grenades.
tbh i think all BoK operatives should have a 3+ save. Maybe I'm too space marine-brained but eldar have embarrassingly bad armour.
Nah Striking Scorps have always had a 3+ save
@@CanYouRollaCrit True, but they should all have 3+ saves!
Not really. You have 8 operatives. 1 has 9 lives and 4+ save and rest got 8 and 4+ save. Kasrkin have 1 operative with 9 wounds and 4+ saves and you have 9 operatives with 8 wounds and +4 save and one of them can save fallen comrades. Meaning your operatives need to do +25 % damage to break even. Are your weapons that better? No. It is 3/4 for shuriken weapons and hot shot lasthings. Sure melee is deferent beast, but still. This is the reason why I still believe only competitively viable operatives are Striking Scorpions due to they Conceal shenanigan.
Inq was 2 melta/plasma, not 1 last edition
Ah if they do that then I'm fine
Honestly, I just think Pathfinders should allow any operative to use the markerlight ability. It's one of the only teams where their entire faction schtick requires them to spend tonnes of AP to use it, only half their team can apply them, and the benefits are not only highly telegraphed but they actively are punished for attempting to stack them on ready operatives and expended operatives alike, all for benefits that other factions just kinda get.
Maybe only operatives with pulse weapons could use the high intensity markerlight, and you replace the targeting optics with this option to balance it.
Considering they can't gain a +1 boost to shooting anymore, and your actions are telegraphed heavily if you want to markerlight and shoot with any of the heavier guns (since they couldn't move much that turn anyways) I think it would be a fair trade.
Oh and please give the shas'ui the knife back, even just 4 attacks at 2-3 would give them a second operative that can at least survive in melee and it's just more fun.
Ah nah, it makes gunners too good imo
They lost their ritual knife 😅
@@CanYouRollaCrit maybe just all the drone options then? The gunners I don't think would be too good, considering to use this they would have to stand still and spend an AP to make their gun slightly better (since they wouldn't be able to high intensity markerlight, they're not pulse weapons) which, again, is heavily telegraphed. Best case scenario you're playing against an opponent who let you stack 3 markerlights on an operative they moved behind light cover directly in front of your gunner. More often than not you'd be spending an AP to give your gunner balanced on a target they already had saturate on in exchange for being stuck in the open on engage.
It just feels like the team suffers heavily from literally half their team not being able to apply their entire faction rule.
Maybe I'm missing something but, yeah, Void Dancers climbing for 1" is cool, but when dropping they have to pay the full amount!?!? (i.e. no benefit)
Is that how people are playing them competitively?
Yeah that's how it works
@@CanYouRollaCrit Thanks. Hmff. Seems unthematic to me
The warpflamer nerf would just make people switch to bolters. They are barely worse with the dev1 equipment right now. Instead I would just nerf their saves to 3+. 2+ saves makes a bunch of horde teams completely helpless against rubrics.
Nah flamers need to drop in damage or lose double shoot. With the teleport they're too oppressive
Nothing for Gellerpox or razorwire? I definitely think razorwire needs a change because currently it completely blocks anything with a 5" move or less
Gellerpox is difficult to balance without a biggg change plus Razor Wire will likely be changed anyway imo
Thank you for ignoring the Nightlords with your elite slander. We have not committed any war crimes yet. They just need the faq clarification on Vox's scream from the last edition. Imo the return to darkness ploy feels useless in most games. Dirty fighter is my new favorite ploy. It feels so good to get someone off guard and gain a free activation.
Oddly Nightlords (plus AoD and Phobos) are pretty well-rounded currently
Nothing on Angels of Death? At least the Sniper should be changed, no?
Not with how the team is doing overall
I only sad hammer and i always deploy the striking scorpions as 3+ save and all operatives as 10 wounds. This makes my phobos team want to take their combat blades and keep it to being a shooting war. Either way, 10 wounds 3+ save striking scorpions still drop like flies. I dont see why GW made them so weak. Maybe its because they want you to get the howling banshees and dire avengers to fill out the team... but i thought they balanced it for a full team of striking scorpions?
Is blades of khaine actually just scorpions or no? It wildy changes the team compositions to include howling banshees and dire avengers, although ive never played them because i dont own those boxes
I mean 10 wounds are for Scouts and Orks so it's a bit of a jump for Aeldari stuff
@@CanYouRollaCrit I am very new to the game and I only have a few teams. It kind of seems like Killteam is two distinct games. Elite v Elites and horde vs horde. What I just learned is that if we try to balance the hordes and elites together, they "step on" other teams with things like wounds value that you mentioned.
Besides making Eldar as tough as Orks and Scouts, what does that really affect? If we look at the ceiling with operatives like AoD heavy gunner at 18 wounds, and patriarch with 21, why are we afraid to make the eldar, orks, scouts, and everyone plus 1 or 2 wounds? It seems like Elite teams are the only ones breaking the game with their wounds counts. You could try killing an elite on all 4 turning points and get no success, and the elite operative complete objectives like nobody was bothering them to begin with.
From what I see in the community, Killteam is either two seperate games (elites v elites, or horde v horde) OR the balancing for all elite teams is way out of whack. I know you're trying to address these issues with your balance changes, but what is this all for?
It seems that all Games Workshop needs to do is make elites less wounds, or make the hordes have more wounds.
The more wounds in the game overall, the more operatives left on the table at the end of the game after 4 turning points.
Is the issue the fact that we have only 4 turning points and not 5?
Is 4 turning points too many?
Most people are playing elites as opposed to hordes with their weekly game store time for a reason.
I can only speak on what I read and see. I am a sad hammerer. I still need to focus hard to comprehend all the rules as they're played. By no means am I an experienced player. The team I am most familiar with is Phobos strike team, and while they are 6 operatives like AoD, they have nowhere near the firepower and none of Phobos can use the silent weapon rule. For all intents and purposes, Phobos feels like a weaker but slightly more flexible Angels of Death team to me. Comparing the two teams in a fight leaves Phobos wanting on kills and objectives, but Phobos feels balanced and fun when fighting against Wyrmblade or Striking scorpions.
When I play my few teams against eachother I don't catch all the rules and my games go slow. However, from what I've experienced it appears that Phobos is the only Elite team that doesn't absolutely stomp out horde teams, and that inspires hope in me in for the balance of the game in general.
I know I'll be stomped on my first game at a store no matter which team I bring, so I'm under no illusion that bringing Plague Marines will make for anything except a longer first game. (Still won't win xD)
I like my Phobos team. I hope they and I can do well when we get into playing games at the stores. I hope my Phobos aren't nerfed, because I don't think they're a cancerous elite team, but I do see this disparity in the community between horde and elite players.
Can we just have Elite Killteam and Horde Killteam? Otherwise, even as a new player I can see that some elite teams are pushing the ceiling so high, many horde teams are left in the dust and would literally need 20 operatives on the board to equalize against Angels of Death or Plague Marines.
When you have two distinct archetypes in any game, any archetype that falls in between those two end up being worse than either purist archetypes. The old addage. "It does both, but neither very well".
When you only have two distinct archetypes in a game, one will always be the stronger counter to the other. This is why rock paper scissors has 3 archetypes and nothing in between.
TL;DR Im new and i'm having a great time!
Blinding light has gotta go. Either change the range to 6” instead of 2”, and or make the shot obscured instead of just no effect and still lost the apl.
I think it's fine now it costs a CP instead of being an Act of Faith
I don’t see why the breachers, who were effectively unilaterally nerfed for non gameplay reasons wouldn’t deserve a buff of at least equal quality. Also, dude that’s a lot of nerfs for the inquisition you’re calling for.
If you make Breachers 8 wounds etc, then they become crazy which we don't need
Yeah, but it's mostly stuff they had last edition when they were doing really well and I did the same/more for Legio and WC
@@CanYouRollaCrit I'm not sure I'm against 8 wound breachers with one fewer operative, but more importantly, a minor change like that wouldn't do a whole lot for them I think rn.
Also, the game is different now, I don't think a revert would be fair to the inquisition.
Losing conceal for snipers - isn't the problem.
Problem is - Heavy rule. It should be Heavy(REP) to make them actually able to do something.
And Blooded sniper riffle ISN'T same as Death corps. DK have dev3 and Blooded stays in conceal, but do only 1MW on crit.
Staying in conceal isn't fair mechanic for them in my opinion. If people don't like losing it after 1st shot, I would offer something like
1st shot - from conceal.
2nd shot on 4+ can be done rom conceal, otherwise - from engage.
3rd shot must be done from engage
They both have long las', they're the same weapon
Heavy reposition would be too good for snipers
@@CanYouRollaCrit sorry you are right, I meant Heavy(Dash).
And for guns - name can be same, but guns can be customized for different purposes, keeping their names)
I would like to think that Blooded sniper just can mount silencer(yeah, I know, silencer on las weapon is funny) or flash supressor or other part from very far future that works similar way - trades damage for lesser shot visibility.
I mean, you can't just give Krieg sniper permament silent without giving Blooded's sniper Devastating 3 =)
For the kasrkin man at arms option "ice on veins" feels pretty useless, taking on count that almost most of the kill teams dosent deal 4 damage at normal attack dice.
They do 4 damage on a crit though
@@CanYouRollaCrit For which it doesn't work as it works only on Normal DMG as stated.
gellerpox also need a buff!! they are pretty bad. they used to be fast and durable, now they are neither. I agreed it was too much in the past edition, but now they are just sad
Agree but not sure how you buff them now, they're not in a great spot ):
Letting the hulks hit on 3+ would go a long ways.
They are really bad. 3APL on Hulks, more movement on Hulks, auto -1 dmg on Hulks on 4+ dmg. Some combo of these. Way too much firepower out there. Hulks dont hold up. Maybe some healing mechanic? Slow but consistent. Hulk heal 2 per TP in the ready phase, others heal 1?
@@jamesreed2475 the healing mechanic its kinda of a hierotek thing. But i feel if they returned to their previous feel no pain mechanic, it would be fine. at least they would be durable. Dont know if their old mechanic was too broken. 3APL on the hulks could be nice, since the other 3 need to spend 2 action to get objectives. but yeah, they definetely need something.
@@jamesreed2475 3 things they can do
1 - make their feel no pain reduction without needing to roll. Just reduce the damage by 1 from 3/4 damege they take. I dont think that is going to be broken at all, just gonna give them some toughness, which they desperately need. The way it works right now is basically useless
2 - make their techno curse affect within 2 inches of hulks and remake the equipment that gives this effect.
3 - rework the Drawn to hum strategy ploy to allow the hulks to gain 1 inch if they are moving towards an objective and they need to finish the move or charge CLOSER to the objective instead of within 1 inch of it. The way that it is now, is one of the worst play i've ever seen, is also basically useless
Pathfinders needs a buff to art of war. +1" additional movement for Montka is useless.
Yeah it's not great 😬
I like squad games' inquisition suggestion of getting scions or sisters. Nothing from other teams. Forces inquisition to hace its own identity, and stops the whole "i want to play jadrkin so ill just play inquisition".
Ah I think that would be too restrictive
No1#. Send elite teams right back to the bottom of the pile, straight down, the pit, the ditch, the boiler room, 10 buffs for inquisition
But...balance 🥺
Nah. Elite teams are cheaper, require less brain load, and can offer shorter games. GW knows this and they also want new people to take up the game. That why the starter box had elites and the hivestorm box didn't.
Definitely agree on the bad wording. GW's made these kinds of games for decades, and they're STILL bad at writing rules.
Well they messed up rules and effects from last edition that never had these problems before (tripple shooting pistoliers)
Phobos is okay? I see somany people complaining they need buffs.
Phobos really good atm
If you only nerf SOME elites the other elites will just take their place…
But AoD/Phobos/Nemesis Claw are all fine though
@ they are only “fine” because there are other elites who are simply better. The moment those are nerfed they immediately rise up, because this whole edition was developed with a focus on making elites good. It’s the whole rationale you used for this video: if you only need the top, what’s immediately below will take its place. And… do you really think Harlequins, which you want nerfed,are stronger than AoD?
@Tulkash01 AoD only have the Sniper as an issue on Gallowdark. Phobos are still 12 wounds so are very manageable. Nemesis Claw also die to P shooting. I can't see them being as broken as the other elites
I played a lot of death korp before the changes and the two things that still burn me about this update are one: our leader has 4+ shooting with the plasma pistol while the blooded have 3+ on theirs (gw just decided to make us worse), and 2: the death korp sniper has heavy, not heavy (dash), meaning for the stationary shot you truly can’t move at all, unlike every other comparable sniper in kill team currently.
Issue is if blooded take plasma leader then they can't take a plasma gunner
A few snipers have just Heavy without Heavy (Dash) in their stationary profile (Kasrkin f.e.). However, I am for adding Dash only for all of them except, maybe, a more versatile Komandoz one.
@@CanYouRollaCrit And not only that but Blooded Chieftain is forced to take more shitty melees when choosing more powerful ranged. While Guardsmen leader (forgot the name) can combine all pistol variants with all melees (except bayonet IRC)! So he can have a plasma pistol AND power sword simultaneously.
Kasrkin need a massive fix, they are terrible atm.
Kinda, they just need to be good outside of Inquisition
I’ve got to disagree on the writing. It is so much clearer than last edition’s word salad. I do think that more designers commentary is needed.
On some stuff, yeah, but for a lot of abilities and rules it's a mess. Deffo need more commentary though
It's better but not great. There's still alot of problems with wording and things like that
It's still pretty spread out in parts. Just to get the basic scoring down, you have to partially refer to a deck of cards, partially to the rulebook.
@@jeffreymonsell659only if you're playing matched play do you need any cards.
dude I love your videos but nemesis claw is too broken I cant get within 6 inches of them cause of their melee and if I shoot from afar the obscured is horrible when shooting with my devastating weapon. some nerf to make it so the range i need is 8 inches would be much better for me (midnight clad)
Nemesis claw are kinda just okay ATM
Wake up darling, new kill team opinions have dropped
Hopefully not too controversial ones 😅
@ no, I think the legionaries are some hard hits, but I tend to agree they are just weirdly too good.
Inquisition is just ridiculous at moment. It just feels like a cheat using them.
CYRAC, goat hater.
Goats savaged me as a child
IMO the first killteam was unbalanced AND uninteresting but we all loved it anyways.
This time around, the elites all seem pretty balanced around eachother with the vespid n tempestus feeling like the 2.0 version of killteam, so I think its fair to hold criticism until they release the halflings and orcs box to see how good/bad the halflings are compared to the elite team its paired against. Each old version of the game had poor balance that they eventually figured out, but this version feels like they're trying to shoot for as much localized flavor as possible and figuring the balance out after a few months, but its only been about a month and a half so perhaps we should all wait before accidentally homoginizing all the teams to feel the same.
We were told all the old teams would be phased out anyways, so we should expect the balance to be skewed between the two too. At least until theres slightly more non horde teams released then we can criticize the themes and limit issues.
lest we just turn everything back to the unflavorful borin old compendium teams in the name of balance
Nah that's not a healthy way to approach balance. If you buff everyone to be Legio and WC level, you break the game
I wanted a game with less teams, but not like this. Fully remove them, or get the balance fixed.
Remove which teams?
50% of them. I don't care which ones. I just feel we would get a better game with less teams. Easier to keep balanced. Less mental load remembering everything.
First and thanks for video :D
Haha thanks
I just hope they buff/nerf with caution, I enjoy Elites since the start of KT22 and I don't wanna suffer again 😅
Ah they kinda need to heavily nerf the big 3 though
@CanYouRollaCrit I agree, for I'am an Angel of Death 😆
Having played Fellgor exclusively since they came out, only frenzy on readied units would neuter this team, I genuinely think it would make them one of the worst teams in the game. I know you have some deep goat trauma but I’d suggest just try playing them that way against almost any other team and I think you will seriously struggle to eke out a win.
Nah it'd be fine. Stops them gatekeeping lots of other factions in the game
@@CanYouRollaCrit While I appreciate your reply it does feel a bit laconic. I'm curious why they feel 'gatekeepy' to you. Their melee is slightly above average however their shooting is well below average making their playstyle fairly inflexible. Once the shamen is dealt with their only survivability comes from frenzy, which I will fully admit is a powerful mechanic, but I do think people are slightly more scared of it than they need to be. I frequently do not get a second turn with my frenzied units. Personally I think if you want to entertain a nerf to this team then killing them out of frenzy with a crit or a second damage on a normal success in shooting, as is the case in melee, is a much better alternative while maintaining the integrity of the mechanic. Even then I think that still drops the team to lower mid-tier, but c'est la vie.
Sadly GW isn't great for balances...and some teams looks bad to....disapear?! 😅
Nah they're good at balancing stuff eventually
I'd be on board with eliminating Piercing Reduction if P2 was abolished. Piercing should not have a numeric stat, just reduce by 1 always. Silly P2 weapons like melta, multi-melta, fusion pistol, and orbital strike just become regular Piercing (ie - P1) and gain Severe.
Otherwise, just make a reduction of P1 turn into Piercing Crits 1 instead of nothing and reduce all Chaos Marines from 14W to 13W.
Nah I think P2 should still exist, just make it where it is now with either limited mobility or range etc
Usually I agree with you John, but I would like to have the plus one BS from markerlights again, which fits with lore, or make the Marksman a 2+ like every other sniper.
Ah I think that would be too much atm
I don't get why Pathfinders in a horrible state. I played against them only once this edition but they analysed a group of my folks hiding behind a barricade and for the rest of the game were consistently capable of getting 4 markerlights on everyone so I essentially played a game where terrain provided no protection whatsoever for me.
So there was no heavy terrain?
@@CanYouRollaCrit Well, there was. But the Pathfinder were capable of recon sweeping into a position which allowed them to control the relevant corridors after their first kills and the uselessness of light cover meant I couldn't reasonably react to this because I could not safely reposition. In effect my operatives were besieged and stuck.
@BlommaBaumbart but you can't really do that on volkus and most other killzones due to the density of heavy cover
@@CanYouRollaCrit Well, I suppose that's a reasonable point to make, considering there are officially supported maps. I'll openly admit that nobody amongst us has the desire to shell out for GW territory and we mostly make do with the '21 starter set terrain, treating scrap heaps as heavy.
And you might say: "That's not how the game is supposed to be played", but the thing is that last edition it wasn't either, yet it still worked perfectly fine with no detriment to the fun whatsoever.
You lose marker lights every time you move tho anddd they hit on 4s... and if there is heavy terrain they can't do anything about it.. pathys are weak asf right now
most people and i mean like 80% dont care about balance we just want cool narrative stuff thats fun.... this whole ''make them all space marines'' thing is going to kill the game
Oh that's totally true, yeah I like some elites but the current level is too much
@@CanYouRollaCrit i just want my guys to act like they should....
Legionaries are fine. Everyone else is just too weedy.
Ah nah