Would You Spend $1000 on Pickups?
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- Опубліковано 1 кві 2024
- This time on Dipped In Tone, Rhett and Zach are digging into today’s best nitty-gritty gear news. Tired of trawling Reddit and forums to figure out what’s going on? Tune in for some authoritative takes from your two favorite tone fiends.
First up are the new Line 6 modeling offerings, including the compact, affordable stompbox that’s making waves across the industry. How does it compare to its big brother, the Helix? Is there any hope for a bean-shaped POD revival? Time will tell…
Our hosts touch on the craze around vintage PAF pickups (which was fetching $2500 for a pair), and compare the Gibson and Fender economy lines: Who makes the better entry-level instrument, and are the budget models starting to lap their more expensive counterparts?
Later, the duo runs down the best-in-class Ed Sheeran signature looper before moving on to the landscape of legacy brands. Is Marshall still relevant outside of their barbershop-ready Bluetooth speakers? How is Hiwatt beating them in the race to digital? And what will happen to our favorite gear companies when they’re bought up by investment portfolios?
Stick around for all this and more, plus an update on Zach’s “Gotta Catch ’Em All” Tubescreamer hunt.
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The answer to the title is no
Never in a million years. Maybe just learn how to play
The triggering of Rhett with the tube screamers is peak content. All time best episode. Thank you guys.
and now you can get at him with Marshal Fridges
UA-cam Audio cuts out at 17:31 and returns at 18:15. Maybe Zach was sharing some extremely guarded pickup cover secret... who knows?
Same problem on Spotify, so I'm guessing it's not platform specific.
Same dropout on Apple podcasts. I just came here figuring I’d be able to pick up this part of the conversation on UA-cam. @DippedInTone, what was the mystery knowledge!?
I have been down the rabbit hole of high end pickups. I also have had 4 sets of real PAF pickups. 2 from 58 and one from 59. And a set from 57. All of it was a rabbit hole. So after going through many. I decided to make my own. Real "PAFS" were wound primarily on the old Leesona 102. Although they did wind on a couple other machines. On the Leesona there was only 8 options for the turns per layer. One was the number. Being they had a heart shaped cam, and the way the mechanical ways, those winds varied plus or minus and build up on the TPL spectrum. And of course user error on how many winds total back then. Not including the tension of that said wire. When they changed the wire, did they adjust the tensioners the same? Not all the time. So we all know there was no real consistently of these pickups, even with the varied magnets used and how they were charged. I did reverse engineered a couple sets of real ones when they came to me damaged and in need or rewinds and such. I can say that using my old REA Desktop Winder with the heart shaped cam, I was able to duplicate the TPL. Using modern wire and magnets, I was able to get the tones of my favorites PAF out of my 4 sets I owned. Long story short, $1000 plus for pickups is not worth it. Anyone with correct buytrate bobbins, correct charged magnets, knowing the correct TPL and tension. But I don't sell mine to the public. Because it is so Oversaturated today, with so many claims by many that they make the best PAF pickups. I think a handfull are close. But the reality is the real magic is knowing the TPL, tension, and mags. The slugs and screws as well.
Just FYI to Zach and Rhett that the audio podcast version of this episode was only 17:31 long. It cuts off mid sentence.
Thanks for the heads up. Should be fixed now.
nope@@DippedInTone
@@DippedInTone its still broken!
I had never known that the narrow neck was called an "A" neck, but I know that I'd always loved it.
Great show! Glad you guys are back!
Great to see you guys again! I've missed the flyin' duo episodes!
Dipped in Tone may have my favorite UA-cam intro music.
I have a pair of 300.00 fralins in my telecaster. I can't really imagine what else could make pickups so expensive besides the name.
Seymour Duncan has some made with silver. Doubt they sound better but from a cost of materials perspective I get it
Replica plastics are just fun. If your hobby is guitars, it makes all the sense in the world to me.
About spending a bunch of money on pickups, you hit the point of diminishing returns really fast. You can get something like the $250 Mojotone 59 clones and be 98% of the way there to vintage PAF tone.
Unfortunately, that last 2% can cost another $750 - $8500 dollars. Either with some Throbaks, Ron Ellis, et etc or real vintage PAF's.
The premium pickups that I would consider buying (on my bucket list) are the Alembic bass pickups and the associated preamp. Alembic does offer these separate from their instruments.
I bought an Elite (before Elitist) Epiphone Riviera over 20 years ago and even owning Gibson Custom Shop and vintage guitars, every time I come back to it, I can’t believe how great it is. They were built in the Japanese Tarada plant and every guitar I’ve had from that factory has been incredible. Tarada builds the Japanese Gretsches and they built the first series “assembled” in USA John Lennon and John Lee Hooker guitars as well. I also have some Duo Jets and one of the OG JLHs as well.
Japanese guitars are incredible. Just bought a Japanese/USA Yamaha Pacifica 904. The quality is amazing. Makes my other usa made guitars feel like toys.
A Monty's PAF is about £150 and bare knuckle about the same... Where does 500usd make sense
Even $150 each doesn't make sense.
The Pod Express is fun and easy to use - sounds great with the Fender FR10. Will upgrade to an HX Stomp next.
Anyone have a good strat with the split hum bridge with a single coil toggle? Is there usually a problem with balancing the pickups?
$1000 pickup set. Here’s my take. Have you watched the Lollar video where they swap lead wires on a staple pickup & do a comparison? You can throw half of your knowledge right out the window after watching that video. When Paul Reed Smith made a comment as to what really nailed the pickup sound in the Sky, this had to be it? All the parts in those pickups have to be dead on right. Sure. Yes. Absolutely. They need to be wound a certain way. Yes. But something as simple as using slightly different lead wire can make a drastic change in the sound of a pickup. Maybe Gibson got this all right? Maybe it’s a marketing scheme? Maybe somewhere in between. Am I paying a $1000 for a set of Humbuckers? Not at my current wage & not to put in a guitar. Safety deposit box, maybe…
Can you please include the link to this video? Thanks!
Curious here, do you have the amp heads running into your computer (obviously more complicated than that), or do you have them run into something and then to a cabinet or multiple cabinets? If so, what do you use for the patching and switching from one amp head to the next? I hope this question makes some sort of sense. I’d like to do something similar in my music room. I have a number of amps and speaker cabinets and I’d like to have an easy way to switch cabinets and heads without unplugging and rerunning a cable to a different cabinet. Thanks a bunch and I really enjoy your show!
Search for Ampete. Not sure what Rhett uses, but Ampete switchers are used by plenty of studios and pros like Pete Thorn.
Look at the videos. Amp repair techs are disgusted with Mesas Falcon design and components. Most techs are refusing to even look at Mesa’s . Same with Marshall using inferior components. Paying top dollar for a 600 dollar amp in the case of the Falcon.
and then they have the audacity to call them "hand made" or whatever... complete bullshit
They know that most folks don’t pay attention to what is on the inside of an amp until they have already bought it and something goes wrong 🤷🏽♂️ it’s basically the cost equivalent of an already overpriced fender blues junior but at more than twice the cost with no additional or better features…
If you want some killer PAF pickups, check out OX4. Half the price of Throbak, and fantastic quality.
My Tom Holmes Pick ups say YES! To that kind of outlay.
Hi guys, I listen to the podcast through the iOS Podcast app. Unfortunately, this episode cuts out after 18 minutes! I didn’t find other ways to contact you, hope this helps. Cheers!
Dang! I thought that got fixed. We will work on it
Ya. I bought them. Installed them in my Hagstrom HJ800. I'm not entertaining any buyers remorse. I'm happy jamming.
I've been missing this show!
Where can find this Zack video about plastic parts? Sure would love to watch! (As someone said even pickup ring plastic timber matters for tone,so dont speak to me if you have stocks on yours🤣🤣🤣🤣)
53:00 good approach.
Valvestate was an awesome higher gain amp. It's the only reason I won the 2001 Springbank High School Battle of The Bands ok?
I agree with Rhett about the plastic video. Not sure what corner of the internet that is.
Regarding the Marshall article: the holding group did say they would focus on digital amp but also on their tube line via “high end” hand wired reissues.
My guess is that the tube amp line will exist to compete with the likes of Friedman and everything in the lower price tier will be digital.
Not many people tend to drive pickups in my country, but at just $1000,- they’re cheap in the US for sure...
🖖
Little may know or be aware of this, but both Rhett Shull and Josh Scott have been added to the indictments that are tied to the Diddy case and are known for being seen at his parties.
Hey Rhett; a Suggestion Re: studio desks, furniture: Advertise locally for an exchange: guitar/studio setup/lessons in exchange for custom (ergonomic designed for you and your work flow) studio furniture. Might be someone in your area that would be interested. Just a Thought
About the only time to consider paying $1,000 on pickups is when you are searching for Rare Older Original Pickups to bring back a Special Guitar or When Custom Building something that Requires Vintage to please Either Yourself or Customer. There a very Few Ron Ellis's out there making new Pickups worth that with Monty's Pickups being slightly less Expensive not to say there is anything wrong with a Seymour Duncan or DiMarzio but unless tracking Down Vintage Gibson PAF, Tim Shaw's or one of Older Fender to complete a Restoration most will find more Tone Practicing then they will tossing money at gear
The problem with Marshall is the big markup from the U.S. distributor. I love the new JTM Studio. But I'm not paying that markup.
I would spend $750-$850 a set for ANY set of Ron Ellis pickups, and have done so 14-15 times.
So you spent over 10k in pickups!? With that much spent I’m sure you’d HAVE TO believe they’re worth it, or else you’d have to admit to being a sucker.
I wanna hear all the tubescreamers in a chain at once
i think i did, they came with my custom shop strat…
Zach, they're Tube Screamer pedals, not Pokemon. :D
Yup, setting up a studio does not cause the tangled snakepit. It's any change of mind, rerouting, that begins the downward twisted spiral!
Bought a chinese made EART with 57 classic gibson knockoffs in them, like them so much I had a local pickup maker make me some.
Great show gents! Please show pictures on screen of the gear you are talking about. Thanks so much!
Bet they'll sound great through a Line6 Spider 30.
Speaking of the plastics, I saw yesterday about how they just discovered that the secret to good tone was the pick guard and now people are paying $10k for the vintage pick guards. At first I was sure that this article was an April fools day joke, but now I'm not so sure. As for these $1000 Gibson pickups, I never really thought modern day Gibson pickups in general were all that special anyway. I like to sound a little different. Now, If I was able to hear these for myself and they were the answer to my tonal prayers, I'd definitely want them. But I really doubt I'm going to like them based on the way they have been described. My preference is what it is. Would I pay $1000 for my desired sound? Absolutely. But so far I've been satisfied with pickups that don't cost that much.
I kinda think the new Mooer Prime P2 kills the Pod Express.
Whenever I see someone wearing Marshall headphones I feel like ripping them of their ears and hold a 20 minute monologue explaining to them the history and importance of that brand and why their buying decision is morally wrong.
There is no way that a set of pickups are worth paying $1000 for. And I’m a gear nerd.
Shoyles collective buys Peavey, rides it into the sunset
Ive tried all the expensive pickups, never been impressed. U just cant beat a pair of fralins or lollars
You probably already know, but the podcast on Apple is 16 minutes long and appears to cut off mid-stream.
With the Epi vs Gibson, imo from the time, they came with Jared James Nichols guitar, my experience was either Gibson Standard or Epiphone. All the lower tier Gibsons imo dont match Epiphones.
Now it start to looks like either Gibson Custom shop or Epiphone.
Most expensive pickups I'd ever REMOTELY consider are the ReWind TAF, huge Trey Anastasio fan - those are $750/set. I'm not entirely sure if I'd spend around that much for Throbaks or Ron Ellis PAFs, because I don't value vintage-accuracy to *that* level for *that* price.
I mean… I wouldn’t. But I’ve been really happy with Sonic pickups and Bareknuckles, and they’re all frankly barely in my price range as well
Yeah, the same people that care about "Les Paul plastics" are the same people that, if they had the money, would buy a Trainwreck amp because of the "directional wire." 😂
To be fair, the case probably costs a hundred as well as those historic pickup rings
Hey I already pay like $300 for what is probably a placebo effect. Ain’t paying $1000 for my placebo.
Marshall might increase their sales in North America if they weren't so absurdly priced over here (compared to everywhere else I've looked)
the video cuts out from 17:30 to 18:14
If I can get dead on replicas of Beast pickups (Bernie Marsden Les Paul, RIP hero), I will pay 1000$ for them.
But for undsiclosed PAF replicas? Eh ...
The video freezes at 17:46.
Why does Rhett keep fondling his microphone?
😂😂😂
The only real actual factual things that can't be replicated in an original PAF or the PAF "tone" are the magnet and the natural louder resonance of the old wood the Bursts used. Some autistic guy in Germany did actual molecular testing on original PAF magnets and discovered u can't really label them any of the modern numbers we have today because of its strength and composition. Its somewhere between A4 and A5. And the original 50's Les Pauls used wood that made them resonate louder than modern ones. Other than those 2 things all u need is a machine wound alnico humbucker in the 7.5-8.5k range and u technically have "Grail" tone. u can get that from literally anywhere. If i was trying to get close to the original magnets i would go for either polished A4 or unoriented A5.
Has there really not been any improvement in pickup designs, part quality etc since the 50's / 60's ? Did guitars stop evolving in the early 60's? ... asks the guitar newbie ;)
There have been huge advancements.
Fishman Fluence, Lace Alumitone just to name 2.
QUESTION guys…I have a 59’ reissue and I’m thinking about paying the $4k that Historic Makeovers charge to completely makeover the guitar to a more “true to the original” 1959. Do you guys think they are worth it? Joe Bonamassa had them work on one of his real 1959’s. I think it was the Lazarith one. Would really appreciate your thoughts. Thank you
Only you can answer that question. If the guitar is an investment piece, you'll never make that $4k back. It'll always be worth whatever market rate is for an R9.
Very true. I’m not going to do it. Thank you.
No rig dip. Come on man!
Marshall needs a better budget option. Dsl and Origin aren't good enough compared to other amps in that range.
hey!
Skip the console Rhett. Save yourself the pain and constant repairs. Get some outboard summing boxes and 500 series rack eqs/compressors/limiters and move out.
Rhett that’s a nice amp and mic collection you have
Here's the thing. Pickups make a huge difference in sound, sustain, feel, etc. I usually see a nice set of pickups for $200-400 depending on what they are. If you collect pickups, you could easily put $1,000 into getting 3 sets of pickups. It's the same as owning 3 Squiers or a Fender.
I will say, those Seymour Duncan pickups with silver wire do seem interesting. Not interesting enough to buy, but if they were in something, it would be cool to try.
Gibson knows what they’re doing. They want to sell Epiphones and custom shops. More profitable than the USA line.
Would I spend 1K on a set of pickups? Yes. Have I spent 900-1K on high-end premium pickups? Yes.
I think the "shock" of the Gibson set is because most hobbyist aren't aware of the handful of higher end pickup builders. Hobbyist just don't pay attention to that side of the market. So when they see prices like that, and it has the word "Gibson" attached to it, their first instinct is to "bust out the pitch forks" and "throw stones".
But high-end premium pickups have been hovering around that $900-1K price point for years now, so there's no surprise (at least from me) that the OG humbucker producer has toss their hat in the ring.
POD Express …no computer editing for any POD Express parameters…too much alternative knob turning exercises to get tone ….maybe later with a firm ware update…but for now this device is not on my wish list
Friedman makes better PCB tube amps for cheaper than gibson
Spending $1000 in a pair of pickups --> MEH.
Spending lots of thousands in 3 luxury-guitar amp heads, a rack full of high quality compressors/preamps --> Yeah! Sure!.
C'mon ...
$2,500 for a set of pickups??? Screw that! You could get a really good guitar or amp for that kind of money - or if you're content with medium priced gear, you could get one of each!
why would you spend 1000 on these when you can buy a good set of PAF clones from Wizz for like 400? No way the Gibson pickups are 250% better
whenever I meet a guitar player and I bring up Marshall......instant face of disappointment......They all love the amps but they always look depressed...........I finally understand why...........and now I make that same face
Complaining about the Falcons is completely warranted. Most of what people are complaining about are things that actual techs are complaining about. Sure, you can say it sounds good but $1500 for PCB mounted, low quality materials that you can find in a $500 amp? PCB boards will wear down over time and cause a big pain for techs, especially trying to find replacement boards. A lot of techs won't even touch Mesa amps due to how badly they are built and how asinine they are to repair. And to have the gall to say it's hand wired is pretty insulting to its consumers. People not looking into stuff like this is why companies can just lie and hand us slop. Mesa makes good sounding amps. The amps themselves are a whole different conversation.
PCB's don't "wear down " over time.
Capacitors may dry out or other components need replacement but the boards themselves are usually fine.
@@vorpalblades not when you direct mount tubes, switches, and potentiometers. The PCB will warp from heat and the shared stress of the hardware will cause more failure points, especially since it’s an item that gets thrown around often. With the amount of voltage that generally runs through them, the higher the chance of electrical failure due to failed/loose components, which will happen overtime with contact points heating constantly. When that board is fried, it’s a full replacement. If you want to see what techs are saying, check out the Guitologist’s video on it. You don’t need to take my word for how crap these amps are.
The TS5 is actually a great pedal. I had a TS9 and preferred the TS5. The problem is a faulty switch. If you search online there is an easy fix.
Has your beard always been that red?
I would but definitely not in a Gibson branded bullshit copy 😊
Me and Jim Marshall agree the DSL is the best amp Marshall ever made. Revive it there’s too many in circulation, nobody is going to buy it new unless there’s a significant update. Overseas Friedmans is a market no company is really hitting and it’s exactly what I would want. The vintage correct amps they make are too niche of a market. Most people can’t or won’t blow that much on one sound. An updated DSL that’s not 20 years old and there’s not one million in circulation will steal all sorts of market from other amp companys and gigging musicians without a yt channel/sensible hobbyists will love it.
Buy a Friedman, who needs Marshall
hell no
he has a Historic but makes fun of accuracy... Typical
Hell no
NO
No.
I'm gonna be honest guys - Marshall needs to stay in the amp game... I've had 2 Marshall Headphones (I'm currently on my 3rd pair) and will NEVER buy another pair. They are cheap cheap and fall apart within a year. It's sad that Marshall stamped their name on something of such poor quality. They need to keep building amps and stick to what they know.
Those Mesa Falcons are NOT good amps.Same BS Mesa does with every amp they make.
Those falcons amps are cheap and crummy material don’t buy them
But do they sound good? I reckon they do
@@kwyatt261 they may to some ears but for that price range you could get a vintage one or something better made.
Hey guys people who speak real English struggle with the US pronunciation of SOLDER
Which century did you all choose to ignore the L and pronounce the word as SODDER
Just bizarre