Fretless Bass Strings: Flatwound or Roundwound? - Bass Practice Diary - 5th January 2021
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- Опубліковано 4 січ 2021
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Fretless Bass Strings: Flatwound or Roundwound? - Bass Practice Diary - 5th January 2021
Which make the best fretless bass strings? Flatwound or roundwound. It seems like every time I release a fretless bass video, I get asked at least one question about strings. I've even been asked questions like, "which flatwound bass strings do you use?" to which I then have to answer, "err... I don't normally use flatwounds on fretless". There seems to be this idea in the bass community that you're going to somehow damage a fretless bass fingerboard by using roundwound bass strings. I've been using roundwounds since I first played a fretless bass as a teenager 20 years ago, and I'm yet to see any damage.
What's the difference?
Flatwound strings are smooth to the touch while you can feel the coils on roundwound strings. So, if we assume that either set of strings is safe for a fretless bass neck, then the question becomes one of sound and feel. Roundwound strings have a brighter tone, especially when they are brand new, but they lose their brightness as they age. Flatwound strings are not as bright when they are new, but they do not lose their brightness so much as they age. I intentionally didn't compare brand new strings in this video, because, I'm interested in hearing how flats compare with used roundwound strings. Do rounds really start to sound like flats as they get old?
In many ways it makes perfect sense to put flats on a fretless bass, because the lack of friction makes sliding between notes very smooth. Smooth in both sound and feel under the fingers. But the sound of flats is very much associated with a vintage bass tone. It was far more common for bass players to use flats in the 50's, 60's and 70's than it is now. There's nothing wrong with a vintage sound, it's a great sound. But if you want something more modern, then roundwound strings are the better option.
My verdict
I didn't give a verdict in the video. Mainly because I hadn't yet listened back to the recordings to hear the strings side by side. Now that I've done it, my verdict might surprise you. On this particular bass, I prefer the flats. I've always used flats on this Sire Marcus Miller V7 Vintage bass. The clue is in the name. It's a modern bass designed to be like a vintage fretless bass (a fretless Fender Jazz Bass to be specific). And to me, it just sounds right to hear this bass played with flats. However, it's not a sound that I feel would suit my fretless Warwick Thumb SC, which is an modern fretless electric.
So, it's not much of a conclusion I'm afraid. Before doing this experiment I was using flats on this bass and rounds on my other fretless basses. And that's what I'll continue to do, having heard the results side by side. I guess it's just nice to know that my initial instincts were right. Or maybe it's just that I'm used to hearing my basses like that so hearing roundwounds on this bass sounds odd to me.
The recording setup
For those of you who are interested, I was using an Electrovoice RE20 microphone on the speaker cabinet and I was mixing that together with a DI signal from the back of the Warwick Hellborg preamp. They were going into a Focusrite interface and then Logic Pro X. I added some light compression in Logic after recording. Other than that there are no effects used.
Both sets of strings are manufactured by D'addario. I thought it made the most sense to use the same brand for both. I have no particular loyalty or affiliation to D'addario. It was just that they were the only brand that I had both flats and rounds in my possession at the time of recording.
As I mentioned in the video, neither set of strings were new. The flats have been on the bass since I bought it. I generally don't feel that flats need to be changed until they become visibly damaged or break. The roundwound set came off one of my fretted basses. I did clean them a bit before putting them back on the fretless.
Jaco covered his fingerboard with marine epoxy. Well protected.
The major bonus of flatwound strings is that you can bring up the mid high and high frequencies without the metal buzz of the roundwound. With this, the attacks are way cleaner.
The EQ and compression with the 2 types of strings have to be completely different. I'm not even mentioning the finger style picking, which in my case is different too.
I'm brand new to fretless and just tried out both in my Kiloton. To my ears the mwah of the roundwounds is just too harsh and metallic. Put LaBella's on and the bass sounds great to me.
@@57precisiontry cobalt strings 😉
@@zyxwfish cobalts are definitely cool strings. I ended up selling that Kiloton and upgrading to an EBMM fretless Stingray. Using ghs pressurewounds on it and I'm really happy with the tone.
Roundwound Forever on fretless and fretted as well
Nickel plated rounds seem to be a nice versatile compromise between the two tones. That's what I'm using with my fretless at the moment anyway.
I agree, nickel plated rounds sound good on fretless.👍🎶
They sound good on every bass. There's a reason their the standard bass string these days.
Johnny Cox Music
Jaco Pastirus was known for using Roundwounds on a Fretless Bass. He kept the fingerboard from getting scratches by coating it in a Protective polyurethane.
Returning to just hear you play. You got that smooth groove. Great sounds also, thanks!
Man, what great technique you have with your right hand. Plus your intonation is excellent. Thanks for sharing. Cheers from Texas, US 🙏 (subbed and rang the bell)
Elixir roundwound are quite nice on fretless. The coating helps a lot with wear.
For a fretless with a J Bass pickup, I actually prefer using the semi-flat aka half round wound strings just to get the sounds in between the flat and round wound strings. I loaded a set semi/half wound strings on my fretless FrankenSquier Jazz Bass. I still can get the fretless growling sound on the bass.
I’m an advocate for nickel plated roundwounds or half rounds. My old Pedulla Buzz fretboard did see some wear when I used them, but thankfully it had a coated fingerboard which protected the ebony.
Yeah, ebony is pretty hard. I don't think the strings would damage the ebony through the finish.👍🎶
@@JohnnyCoxMusic That's because the Finish is acting as a Barrier to increase the strength.
Thank you for playing "Black Market" riff. Weather Reports Jaco Pastorius is the reason I picked up the Bass.
I love both sounds personally.
Nice class!
beautiful instrument
GHS Pressurewounds are my favorite strings for fretless. They have the zing of rounds and the smoothness of flats (kind of), and you won't get the finger noise and they won't eat up the fretboard.
Jaco added 6 layers of Boat epoxy on his neck... BIG difference!
I use GHS Pressurewounds on all my fretless basses!
There is another string option - half rounds. I used D'addario ENR72 on a long scale fretless acoustic. They are flattened on top and bottom but have round sides. Reduces attack but gives great sustain. They're expensive but give the best of both worlds (depending on your taste).
That’s what I used when I had a fretless
Rounds for the win!!!
After decades of using rounds on my fretted basses, I enjoy the mellowness of the flats, especially if I'm doing any 'sliding' up the fingerboard. That said, I may experiment some with semi-rounds.
Another 'option' for the fingerboards is a Tung oil finish. I Love the Much more 'Natural' feel than a lacquered neck (Fingerboard And Back!), and, 'though it doesn't dry as Hard as an Epoxy finish, it comes pretty close (depending on how many coats you lay down).
Best combination I found was ns bass cello half wound strings and a stainless steel roundwound as the heaviest string.i used 3 coats of famowood glazecoat epoxy on the fretboard.
Great! I wish I could’ve heard some slides tho to hear the diff between the two
I prefer flats on my fretless! Fresh, bright and warm!
On Jaco Pastorius, didn't he also pour epoxy on the finger board? I think it might have also contributed to making the fingerboard more durable.
"Jaco-Poxys"
I’ll have ta go with flat wounds. I don’t like the crackle on round wounds
Hi Johnny, would u make a lesson on how to eq your amp and how to work with the gain and master volume to get a great tone? Im a ver beginner and your Channel is helping me a lot.
Hi. Thank you. It's a good question. The problem with making a video like that is that it depends a lot on what gear you use and on your playing style.
So I would only be able to share generalisations like:
"if you boost the bass and treble you get a scooped "Marcus Miller" type tone".
That kind of stuff has been done a lot so I'm not really sure what I could bring to it that's new.
Let me know if you'd like to try a lesson with me on Zoom. I can let you have the first 30 minute lesson for free to try it out. 👍🎶
Round
Flatwounds eliminate the scraping sound that occurs when you move your hand up and down the fingerboard. Double Bassists don't have this problem--it allows them to concentrate more on making music rather than being aggravated by that persistent noise.
I think flats are perfect for a “budget” double bass sound in jazz.
My own fretless model is strung with round-wounds. I like it better than flat-wounds.
From a given angle, Johnny, that Marcus Miller model looks a lot like the fretted Tony Franklin model. Several years ago, I asked him his opinion of having a fretless maple fingerboard as in yours. He wrote back that a maple fingerboard cannot withstand fretless usage. I’m curious. Is it the epoxy coating on yours that protects your fingerboard, and how many layers are on it?
Great video, thank you....Subscribed!
Thank you! 👍🎶
I don't like flats on fretless because of their high tension and lack of mwah! Since I don't want to damage the fingerboard with rounds, I use GHS Pressurewounds and they are smooth to the touch but also growly like rounds. Way back in the 90s I loved D'Addario Halfrounds when they were made of stainless steel but they changed them to nickel and the feel is horrible for me.
That groove@3:30 though, what was that?
been looking for a fretless with a maple fingerboard for a while. sounds great. your thoughts on why maple on a fretless is as rare as it is?
On a similar whim, I put together an all Maple neck fretless P-bass a couple years ago (pretty good deal on fretless necks made in China on e-bay). I also put nylon wrapped strings on it, but I'll eventually try something else.
Faced with the same dilemma I think the flatwounds sound better - more like double bass sound while the roundwounds sound like - well - ordinary bass guitar.
I have a question but it doesn't pertain to Flats vs Rounds. I notice your using 1-2-4 on your fretting hand, do you ever use 1-2-3-4? When I play a fretted electric I always play 1-2-3-4 with my fretting hand however, when I play a fretless I tend to always go to 1-2-4. I just feel my intonation is better at 1-2-4, even at the upper registers. I have never played an upright bass so it isn't because of that. Is there a right or wrong way with a fretless electric bass?
Didn't Jaco famously coat his fingerboard in epoxy resin though?
round gang
jacko made the first fretless bass? thought the first electric basses were fretless? and they made fretless basses in the 60"s did jacko just coin a new style?
yeah rounds seem so much better to me, I always use DR Sun beams (nickel rounds) on fretless
Yeah, I usually use DR strings on my fretless Warwick Thumb SC. They're great. 👍🎶
But Jaco cover the fretboard with epoxy coats on the rosewood fingerboard as this wood is softer and easy to be chewed by rounds strings, however nowadays the use of harder woods like ebony in the Tony Franklin fretless prevent that situation to happen, about sound definitely the rounds bring more of the typical “mwah” voice of the fretless, while flats reduce this a bit giving a more fundamental tone,a matter of tastes, great comparision
Actually everyone seem to think you need to play roundwound strings on a fretless since Jaco did it... How would you come to the idea it's other way around? Check any forum and you'll find out 😂
I thought the flats sounded a lot better. 🤷🏻♂️
Flats sounded a lot more musical, the Rounds sounded a lot more typical, the brightness is also highlighting when you are off the note.
My fretless has gone from 16 years of Rounds, to 3 years of Flats and currently as an experiment it has Tapes. It will be returning to having Flats on it. I doubt that I'll ever put Rounds on a fretless again, it cool for the novelty (and mimicking certain player's recorded works) but it becomes a tiresome sound for the listener and is a bit too obtrusive to genuinely fulfill the supportive role.
Rounds do make the "look at me" solos stand out, but is that really what the role of bass is? That's the real reason that a lot of people are putting Flats on their fretless basses, it to fulfill the function of the bass role in music, the lack of wear is just a secondary advantage of the move. It's almost the same motivation why many people are using Flats more in general, to produce solid supportive tones.
I use Rounds and Flats on fretted. They both have their place, but Flats on fretless sound better, just as flats are used on other fretless instruments violin, viola, cello and of course double bass.
Fretless board with fret marks is for cowards xD
Aah come on lol