Glad you think so... although I'm not sure how age-old of a topic it is given that the Unifrogs have only been available for a few years so far. Thanks for watching 😃
I'm really glad to hear that David, I did want to make something that was really easy for everyone to understand while still being entertaining. Thanks for watching 😃
I see what you did there 😉 It’s definitely one of those things which I think is helpful for people to understand, especially as Unifrogs become more widely available from Peco. Thanks for watching 🤩
I've used SEEP point motors in the newer part of my layout and discovered, very early on, that getting the alignment right for correct operation of the power switching function was very difficult (especially when the baseboard is in place), so I use latching relays, which hold their position, even when unpowered. If using a CDU, put a 1k resistor between the coil's common return line and the CDU return line, as the greater current caused by the high voltage can cause the coils in the relay to burn out.
I can't say I've had any issues with alignment myself. You can see at 07:58 I flip the rod back and forth to find the sweet spot where the contact touches the power feed on each side before marking the position so I'd recommend trying that. With solenoid motors you really need to be using momentary switches. If you're using those there shouldn't be any concern about the motor burning out (even with a CDU) as the burst of power is so short. Thanks for watching 😃
I really appreciate this video and that You took the time to go through everything, also having a visual diagram as You explained it really helped to follow along, Thank You for making this video, Electro frog points don’t seem as daunting now, Thank You :)
Really glad you found it helpful and I'm glad the diagrams were worthwhile... it would have been a pretty boring video otherwise. Obviously while there was some info about Electrofrogs in here the focus was on the Unifrogs - just in case there was any confusion. Thanks for watching 🤩
Absolutely, its the same across all scales and I think this method of standardisation is partly what PECO are going for with these new Unifrog points. Thanks for watching 😃
Awesome, that’s great to hear. I can imagine lots of people will refer back to it in the future when it comes to wiring up their points. Thanks for watching 😃
Great explanation of the differences between the different styles of points! The other advantage Unifrog points have of course, is that they don't rely on the switch blades to "route" the power, which means no more "sticky" patches when the track gets a bit dirty! Just wish the Unifrog points were available in more styles in N gauge! All the best, Ian.
Yes I've heard of lots of people adapting electrofrog points to work in this way so it's nice that PECO have built it in for the unifrog points. I believe the plan is to upgrade each point to a unifrog as the current mould/tooling comes to the end of its life. It won't be a speedy process but generally we should start to see more and more unifrogs appearing on the market. Thanks for watching 😃
Glad you found it helpful. It was definitely a good idea to use the same colours on the diagram as I had on the layout in real life. Thanks for watching 😃
My pleasure! I think a lot of people are confused by them but, as PECO's plan is to move over to these entirely in the future, it's something we really should be paying attention to. Thanks for watching 😃
Ah! Thank you! Unifrog points now a must for my forthcominng project. Perhaps, starting the project could help motivate me to crack on with the mundane, "To do" list.🤓👍
It does feel like step forward to me. I can see why some people don't like them but overall I think it's going to make things a lot more simple for people going forward. Thanks for watching 😃
For powering the switching of the points themselves most people tend to use 16v AC for that. The wiring for the switching of the frog polarity is the same regardless of whether you're using DC or DCC for the track power. Hope that helps and thanks for watching 😃
I notice on the rail close ups that you have painted the rail chairs a different colour to your sleepers to give the impression of rust…..it looks really good so I have to ask you have you painted every single rail chair on your layout and if so how long did that take you? Great channel by the way. Regards Jim
Hi Jim, I only did that on the 00 gauge layout - I couldn't face doing it on the TT layout which (despite being a smaller layout) has considerably more track to worry about. The 00 gauge layout was modelled in short modules/sections so I was never doing more than 4ft (often less) in one go. Even so it was pretty time consuming but it does look good. If you check out the Building A Modular Model Railway series you'll see how I weathered the track on that layout in much more detail. Thanks for watching 😃
A good explanation, I have used electrofrogs for my DCC layout but because I have used surface mount point motors, I'm using relays to switch the frog. It's a little bit more wiring but still simple enough. It's good to see Peco moving over to the Unifrog, Its a shame they haven't got to crossovers for code 100 track yet as they never came with an eletrofrog version unlike the code 75.
There are surface mounted point motors that allow for polarity switching - I believe Rails Of Sheffield sell some and they use terminal connectors rather than requiring soldering which is handy too. Might be worth looking into if you ever feel the urge redo them - though if it ain't broke, don't fix it 😉 I believe PECOs plan is to gradually switch over to Unifrog points as the tooling for current products wear out. I don't know how old the current moulds for the crossovers are which will be the deciding factor on how far up/down the list they are. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Ah yes the digital pack does but I have gone pure analogue for point operation, I do have some Rails motors though, the packs of 5 are reasonable value.
The process would be almost exactly the same for most point motors. If you understand the process used here with the simple SEEP motors, then really it would just be a case of checking the manual for whichever brand of motor you're using to see where to place the polarity feed wires. Hope that helps and thanks for watching 😃
Yep absolutely, that's one of the other intended uses for the PM1 motors. By using the two polarities you could power two different LEDs for different positions. Thanks for watching 🤩
@@ThatModelRailwayGuyso I’m guessing and I apologise for daft questions, but the positives from the LEDs will go to the D & E tab and the negative to the common return?
Yes that would be my understanding. The PM1s come with a set of instructions which I believe state this option too (you can probably find a digital copy online if you wanted to be sure before buying any)
Yep should be fine, just like when people use a mix of electrofrog and insulfrog points on their layout. Obviously in both cases you still need to wire up the electrofrogs correctly. Thanks for watching 😃
I have a good selection of Electro frog points that I manually change, or have surface mount point motors. Unifrogs are a backward step for me, Peco should have kept the frog switchable from the point blades, then you would have the best Point for everyone.. Good Video and good explanation of Unifrogs though, I enjoy the channel, always good content 👍👍
It is still possible to do that with the Unifrogs if you want to though. The issue with that method is that you're relying solely on the point blades which can cause problems over time. This way the points are useable for both beginners and those who want more control over their points. Ultimately we all need to get used to Unifrogs as the Electrofrogs are gradually phased out. Thanks for watching 😃
Snip the wires that connect the blades to the stock rail (if needed, I'm not sure if all Unifrogs are connected here) then solder the frog feed to the blades instead. As the blades touch each stock rail the power will flow through them to the frog (and opposite blade too) but you're relying on good contact being made every time.
I think it was just a spare Zimo 6 pin decoder I had going spare. Others have been able to fit a stay alive in the 08 but I haven't felt the need yet given it now runs so well over the points. Thanks for watching 😃
It should be mentioned: not all insulfrog turnouts will have a dead rail past the points. Those that do are called "power routing," while turnouts from Atlas are non-power routing insulfrogs, meaning their rails are electrically connected all of the time but the frogs are plastic.
My apologies. With the vast majority of the viewers of this channel being UK based I was really only talking about PECO, given that they are the most popular track maker over here. I also assumed that insulfrog and electrofrog were PECO terms but I guess not. Thanks for watching 😃
If you wanted to switch the point manually you'd need a rod from the tie bar to interface with a microswitch which can switch the polarity when set for the diverging line. Would be a bit more work though. Thanks for watching 😃
@@PaulGarwood Those are 00 gauge points though and part of the Bullhead range. Being finescale turnouts they're not intended for use with surface mounted motors.
No because the frog is already isolated. If you look at the diagrams at 04:44 you can see the exit of the point is never showing a short circuit. Thanks for watching 😃
My first thought would be to remove it from the point and make sure the mechanism throws properly (with power) on it's own. If that's ok then it's most likely just an alignment issue. I've also had it in the past where the hole is drilled in just slightly the wrong place, restricting movement in one direction, and subsequently needs opening out. Hope that helps and thanks for watching 😃
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As others have said here, the best, easiest to understand tutorial on this age-old topic. Well done, That Model Railway Guy.
Glad you think so... although I'm not sure how age-old of a topic it is given that the Unifrogs have only been available for a few years so far. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Oh, oops, I just meant the topic of insulating frogs and the whole electrical path issue. So much has changed over the years!
One of the best point explanations that I have seen .
Glad to hear that! I feel like a lot of people think they're more complicated than they really are. Thanks for watching 😃
The best presentation I have seen on this topic. Thank you.
I'm really glad to hear that David, I did want to make something that was really easy for everyone to understand while still being entertaining. Thanks for watching 😃
Ah I see the point now! Many thanks for a very interesting and informative video. Well done for demystifying this aspect of the installation.
I see what you did there 😉 It’s definitely one of those things which I think is helpful for people to understand, especially as Unifrogs become more widely available from Peco. Thanks for watching 🤩
You’ve just made my brain relax! Perfectly simple. Thank you!
Really glad to hear that David! Thanks for watching 😃
I've used SEEP point motors in the newer part of my layout and discovered, very early on, that getting the alignment right for correct operation of the power switching function was very difficult (especially when the baseboard is in place), so I use latching relays, which hold their position, even when unpowered. If using a CDU, put a 1k resistor between the coil's common return line and the CDU return line, as the greater current caused by the high voltage can cause the coils in the relay to burn out.
I can't say I've had any issues with alignment myself. You can see at 07:58 I flip the rod back and forth to find the sweet spot where the contact touches the power feed on each side before marking the position so I'd recommend trying that.
With solenoid motors you really need to be using momentary switches. If you're using those there shouldn't be any concern about the motor burning out (even with a CDU) as the burst of power is so short. Thanks for watching 😃
You have SUPERB content! Very neat work!
Thank you! I do work as hard as I can to keep things interesting and informative. Thanks for watching 😃
I really appreciate this video and that You took the time to go through everything, also having a visual diagram as You explained it really helped to follow along,
Thank You for making this video,
Electro frog points don’t seem as daunting now,
Thank You :)
Really glad you found it helpful and I'm glad the diagrams were worthwhile... it would have been a pretty boring video otherwise. Obviously while there was some info about Electrofrogs in here the focus was on the Unifrogs - just in case there was any confusion. Thanks for watching 🤩
Nicely done. And of use no matter what scale you’re into, TT, N or OO. Thanks.
Absolutely, its the same across all scales and I think this method of standardisation is partly what PECO are going for with these new Unifrog points. Thanks for watching 😃
This is a vid I will use many many times in the future ! Tnx !
Awesome, that’s great to hear. I can imagine lots of people will refer back to it in the future when it comes to wiring up their points. Thanks for watching 😃
Great explanation of the differences between the different styles of points! The other advantage Unifrog points have of course, is that they don't rely on the switch blades to "route" the power, which means no more "sticky" patches when the track gets a bit dirty! Just wish the Unifrog points were available in more styles in N gauge! All the best, Ian.
Yes I've heard of lots of people adapting electrofrog points to work in this way so it's nice that PECO have built it in for the unifrog points. I believe the plan is to upgrade each point to a unifrog as the current mould/tooling comes to the end of its life. It won't be a speedy process but generally we should start to see more and more unifrogs appearing on the market. Thanks for watching 😃
I like how you explaned the unifrogs I understand with the help of the colored wires you use. Thanks for sharing.
GOD BLESS from America
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Glad you found it helpful. It was definitely a good idea to use the same colours on the diagram as I had on the layout in real life. Thanks for watching 😃
Thank you for that video, I never really understood unifrog points or who they worked so video was a big help 😀
My pleasure! I think a lot of people are confused by them but, as PECO's plan is to move over to these entirely in the future, it's something we really should be paying attention to. Thanks for watching 😃
Ah! Thank you! Unifrog points now a must for my forthcominng project. Perhaps, starting the project could help motivate me to crack on with the mundane, "To do" list.🤓👍
Awesome, glad to hear it. They've definitely made a world of difference on my TT layout, especially with the smaller locos. Thanks for watching 😃
Excellent video, thanks very much
Glad you enjoyed it Chris! It was good fun to make all the diagrams for this one. Thanks for watching 🤩
Great explanation and improvement there by peco on product design & user ability
It does feel like step forward to me. I can see why some people don't like them but overall I think it's going to make things a lot more simple for people going forward. Thanks for watching 😃
Nicely narrated with colour graphic, easy to follow...well presented as usual. Question is the power source of any importance in this set up?
For powering the switching of the points themselves most people tend to use 16v AC for that. The wiring for the switching of the frog polarity is the same regardless of whether you're using DC or DCC for the track power. Hope that helps and thanks for watching 😃
Thanks that is so useful . I'm about to start a new project using unifrog...
Awesome, best of luck with it and I'm glad you found it useful. Thanks for watching 🤩
That was very good and well explained
Glad to hear that! I did try to make it as easy to follow as I could. Thanks for watching 😃
I notice on the rail close ups that you have painted the rail chairs a different colour to your sleepers to give the impression of rust…..it looks really good so I have to ask you have you painted every single rail chair on your layout and if so how long did that take you? Great channel by the way. Regards Jim
Hi Jim, I only did that on the 00 gauge layout - I couldn't face doing it on the TT layout which (despite being a smaller layout) has considerably more track to worry about. The 00 gauge layout was modelled in short modules/sections so I was never doing more than 4ft (often less) in one go. Even so it was pretty time consuming but it does look good. If you check out the Building A Modular Model Railway series you'll see how I weathered the track on that layout in much more detail. Thanks for watching 😃
A good explanation, I have used electrofrogs for my DCC layout but because I have used surface mount point motors, I'm using relays to switch the frog. It's a little bit more wiring but still simple enough. It's good to see Peco moving over to the Unifrog, Its a shame they haven't got to crossovers for code 100 track yet as they never came with an eletrofrog version unlike the code 75.
There are surface mounted point motors that allow for polarity switching - I believe Rails Of Sheffield sell some and they use terminal connectors rather than requiring soldering which is handy too. Might be worth looking into if you ever feel the urge redo them - though if it ain't broke, don't fix it 😉
I believe PECOs plan is to gradually switch over to Unifrog points as the tooling for current products wear out. I don't know how old the current moulds for the crossovers are which will be the deciding factor on how far up/down the list they are. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Ah yes the digital pack does but I have gone pure analogue for point operation, I do have some Rails motors though, the packs of 5 are reasonable value.
Very well explained thank you
I'm very glad to hear that! Thanks for watching 😃
Very timely thank you😁👍
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching 😃
Excellent explanation. Maybe you could do one for other point motors eg cobalt digital IP and tortoise.
The process would be almost exactly the same for most point motors. If you understand the process used here with the simple SEEP motors, then really it would just be a case of checking the manual for whichever brand of motor you're using to see where to place the polarity feed wires. Hope that helps and thanks for watching 😃
Another fantastic production, very well done. Can I ask what gauge wires you use on these point motors please?
Hiya, it's 26AWG wire. There's a link in the description. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy smashing, thankyou very much
Fantastic! I may not be using unitfrog points. But the D& E tab could those he used to turn on a led on a point switch board?
Yep absolutely, that's one of the other intended uses for the PM1 motors. By using the two polarities you could power two different LEDs for different positions. Thanks for watching 🤩
@@ThatModelRailwayGuyso I’m guessing and I apologise for daft questions, but the positives from the LEDs will go to the D & E tab and the negative to the common return?
Yes that would be my understanding. The PM1s come with a set of instructions which I believe state this option too (you can probably find a digital copy online if you wanted to be sure before buying any)
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy perfect thank you
Can you mix unifrog and electrofrog points??
Great videos
Yep should be fine, just like when people use a mix of electrofrog and insulfrog points on their layout. Obviously in both cases you still need to wire up the electrofrogs correctly. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy thank you keep up with your excellent videos
I have a good selection of Electro frog points that I manually change, or have surface mount point motors. Unifrogs are a backward step for me, Peco should have kept the frog switchable from the point blades, then you would have the best Point for everyone.. Good Video and good explanation of Unifrogs though, I enjoy the channel, always good content 👍👍
It is still possible to do that with the Unifrogs if you want to though. The issue with that method is that you're relying solely on the point blades which can cause problems over time.
This way the points are useable for both beginners and those who want more control over their points. Ultimately we all need to get used to Unifrogs as the Electrofrogs are gradually phased out. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Must have missed something then, How to you get the point blades to power (and then flip) the frog..?
Snip the wires that connect the blades to the stock rail (if needed, I'm not sure if all Unifrogs are connected here) then solder the frog feed to the blades instead. As the blades touch each stock rail the power will flow through them to the frog (and opposite blade too) but you're relying on good contact being made every time.
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy OK, sounds good, Many thanks for the tip I'll look to do that.. Great stuff.. 👍
I have noticed you are using a class 08 which DCC chip are you using and is it possible to fit a stay alive in there?
I think it was just a spare Zimo 6 pin decoder I had going spare. Others have been able to fit a stay alive in the 08 but I haven't felt the need yet given it now runs so well over the points. Thanks for watching 😃
It should be mentioned: not all insulfrog turnouts will have a dead rail past the points. Those that do are called "power routing," while turnouts from Atlas are non-power routing insulfrogs, meaning their rails are electrically connected all of the time but the frogs are plastic.
My apologies. With the vast majority of the viewers of this channel being UK based I was really only talking about PECO, given that they are the most popular track maker over here. I also assumed that insulfrog and electrofrog were PECO terms but I guess not. Thanks for watching 😃
Can you show how to wire the point if you want to switch them manually please
If you wanted to switch the point manually you'd need a rod from the tie bar to interface with a microswitch which can switch the polarity when set for the diverging line. Would be a bit more work though. Thanks for watching 😃
Please how do you fix the Peco PL11 Turnout motor when there are no pins on the Unifrog tie bars?
I'm not sure I understand, the TT Unifrog points I show in this video all have the pins on each end of the tie bar. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy - No the Peco SL-U1195 points I have purchased recently just have a hole in each end of the tie bar., no pins on the code 100-75
@@PaulGarwood Those are 00 gauge points though and part of the Bullhead range. Being finescale turnouts they're not intended for use with surface mounted motors.
Do you need to use insulated rail joiners with unifrog points please?
No
No because the frog is already isolated. If you look at the diagrams at 04:44 you can see the exit of the point is never showing a short circuit. Thanks for watching 😃
I’ve been trying for 3 days to figure out why my PM1 will only throw one way, it tries to throw the other way but doesn’t make it 😔
My first thought would be to remove it from the point and make sure the mechanism throws properly (with power) on it's own. If that's ok then it's most likely just an alignment issue.
I've also had it in the past where the hole is drilled in just slightly the wrong place, restricting movement in one direction, and subsequently needs opening out. Hope that helps and thanks for watching 😃