Why 3D printing with FLEXIBLE filaments is hard and how to fix your TPU printing.
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2024
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A more technical look into TPU this time, diving into elasticity, hooke's law, pressure advance, and what all this has to do with print failure.
This is my 4th TPU video, I suggest checking out this playlist to watch them all:
• Why 3D printing with F...
(Sorry Steve is so dusty, he has been sat up a corner for a couple months!)
(Also for people wondering what Steve is, I found the Ender 3 V2 name a huge pain to say, so I named it Steve.)
Do you want some further reading? I got you :
www.klipper3d.org/Kinematics....
duet3d.com/blog/duet3d-resear...
You like my rainbow dragon thing? Me too:
Filament is tricolor silk (affilament...I mean affiliate link): eryone3d.com/?ref=lostintech
You want to buy a sovol SV01 Pro? Good choice! (affiliate): sovol3d.com?sca_ref=2339623.pWfHIdW0Sr
Hey, if you want to support this kind of thing, you can..
/ lostintech
Discord: / discord
Lobby Time by Kevin MacLeod
Link: incompetech.filmmusic.io/song...
License: filmmusic.io/standard-license
Gymnopedie No. 3 by Kevin MacLeod
Link: incompetech.filmmusic.io/song...
License: filmmusic.io/standard-license
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:32 IANAE Disclaimer
0:54 Elastic Plastic
3:55 May a negligible amount of the force be with you
5:16 When retraction doesn't retract
7:17 When deretraction doesn't deretract
8:41 No Pressure
11:43 Sponsor Segment
12:52 It's not just linear advance though
14:29 Stop stopping retracting
14:57 Bowden bye bye?
16:45 No Linear Advance? No no problem.
17:28 So why DOES my tpu fail and what CAN I do about it?
18:27 Wrap up
No, it can't be my fault. It's TPU that's wrong
This is the kind of stuff I subscribed for. I feel like no other channel goes this far down the rabbit hole 👍
another excellent video, very good findings and tips! 👏😎
Thank you 👍👍
“I am watching, Wazowski… always watching!” 😂 MarsGizmo is always watching too
I'll yell as much as I want when tpu escapes from my extruder, thank you. Lot of great observations and demonstrations here! Linking this video to the Capricorn guy for your sponsorship.
Mostly here to feed the engagement engine, but this is also probably the most thoughtful 3d printing video I've seen to date in 2022.
This comment is not a bot I am not here to drive engagement as well
Really enjoyed this one! Very interesting to see the forces for a soft TPU compared to a harder TPU. Pressure/linear advance is a very cool feature that it seems a lot of people do not use, and unless you print very slow it's almost needed for consistent extrusion around corners.
yes - seriously considering an episode just on LA (although I'd have to research it properly this time hahaha)
Thanks for these. Your previous TPU videos (and profile) helped me tune my E3Pro for 95A with amazing results. I understand that if I want to go more flexible than that, I will have to invest in a direct drive, but really great-looking 95A from an Ender-3 was more than I was hoping for and is enough for my needs.
There's also nothing stopping you from converting your Ender 3 to direct-drive without spending money (apart from some filament and an extension cable for the extruder motor). Just look for the Direct Drivinator on Thingiverse and co. I've had a slightly modified version on my Ender 3 Pro for ages and even for printing PLA the reduced retraction needed outweighs any drawback (extra weight on the x-gantry which on Ender 3 is only supported on one side) in my eyes. Clearly it isn't giving you a fancy gear reduction or so, but at close to $0 it was one of the best improvements I added to my Ender 3 Pro.
Yes I forgot to mention you can do it for free 👍
If you want even better but cost a little, get a titan clone extruder, a smaller nema 17 and use a printed bracket for direct drive. It does a really good job and cost under 30usd from start to finish. Highly worth it if you print flexible filaments often. If it's one off projects it's probably not worth it but the printed bracket with stock extruder is.
I found that CHEPS solution to printing with tpu on a bowden style printer has been amazing. He redesigned the connection that is made to the bowden tube on the side of the extruder, and added a piece of tube that butts directly against the gear. With this set up I haven't had TPU escape at all. I'd suggest you give it a shot because so far its worked wonders. I've gotten pretty good results with his design and your information :)
Do you have a link to a video where he explains the process? Thanks 😀
Yet again an incredible video! I am ordering tpu to start printing with, and I am looking forward to going back to this series to tune my printer!
Thanks! Good luck with the tpu, and you know where I am if you need any help 😉
Great stuff, always wonderful to see more channels delving into the practical and technical aspects of desktop FFF.
Not a pain to print with a Bowden tube going all the way to the nozzle. Had 0 issues with that.
I have moved my printer to direct extrusion and only then realized how wonderful Bowden tube was(with some cons of course.)
PTFE tube has no friction. So you can print with any speed and temp. Even in a case extruder will not be able to push TPU with needed rate, Bowden tube length will compensate that as a buffer, allowing filament to curve inside but not stuck fully.
Wow! I haven’t seen this video yet - super clever system to measure the force! I’ll make one for me! ❤ EDIT: finished watching - brilliant video about TPU. It surprised me that really soft TPU simply could not get through the Bowden AT ALL, when being pushed. Sure, one year later it is clear why all printers moved to Direct Drive systems.
Haha the move to direct drive has deprived me of these experiments 🤣
This is very nice content. Very insightful on the pressure advance!
just started watching, and already LOVING that close up shot of the TPU pulling it's escape artist trick!
Undervalued channel
Great video as always 👍
Thanks for sharing your expirence with all of us 👍 😀
Wow. Your videos are great. Keep em' coming.
I’ve had good luck on my SV05.
Toss the Bowden and put the filament on the top.
Nitpicking here, but the spring model is slightly incomplete and only part of the picture. Hopefully the below is helpful for anyone wanting a bit more of a deep dive.
LA/PA values are in units of "time," and it's easiest to think of K as an approximate time delay between the commands are issued and when material actually exits the nozzle. Material stiffness contributes to LA/PA but that's only part of the story. LA/PA is more like a RATIO of flow viscosity (damping) divided by spring constant (stiffness). This is why materials that are free-flowing and rigid have very low K-values. Those with either high viscosity or low stiffness (or both) have high K-values. Surprisingly (or not), this ratio has units of "time" just like the example above. Not to take the wind out of your sails, but the use of the letter "K" IS likely either coincidental, or a by-product of an earlier and different model.
Final nitpick - "ideal" springs aren't time-dependent in engineering models - only position-dependent - so that alone wouldn't cause the delay (damper models are used instead). I understand the goal is a relatable metaphor, so no issues there, just wanted to clarify this.
...also, the rabbit hole goes way way deeper the more "accurate" we want these models to be. All of the "above" only considers drag with the nozzle walls, not additional effects like material viscoelasticity, die swell, temperature-dependence, printing quickly with large temperature gradients, etc.
Argh! I get your point though 😁
Oh also I would ask anyone who wants to corroborate your explanation, to check out the link to the duet firmware site in the description, because it's written like a huge academic paper! 👍👍
@@LostInTech3D Check out the academic paper "Investigating pressure advance algorithms for filament-based melt extrusion additive manufacturing: theory, practice and simulations" by Tronvoll et all. It has a pretty great explanation of the K-factor derivation and goes a little more in-depth. Eqn 4 in particular is where we see damper-like behavior (force = some coefficient times velocity)
The Duet3D derivation is OK but a little confusing as it's hard to track K from start to finish. The time-derivative of Hooke's Law in particular is where a bit of hand-waving goes on - technically it's where the model subtle switches from "spring-only" model to a spring-damper one.
Of course this is super deep into the weeds, but just something I wanted to point out just in case. Great video and content as always!
Love the videos mate! I’ve wanted to print TPU for FPV drone parts and you convinced me that I don’t NEED a direct drive printer so I bought a Neptune 2S and it’s been pretty good! I just installed klipper too, what screen are running for klipperscreen?
That is super useful for PVA as well since it behaves like TPU
I noticed this months ago, I even believe I remember watching something from you for the first time - could be almost a year a year ago ? Not sure. But yet another amazing video. Your content rocks. You're amazing. And, I was also about to tell you that you're in your twenties like some young adult but since I noticed (back to my original thought) that your logo is somewhat related to Depeche mode. I think. Their album ( not sure which one but I've listened to some of their music)
+Basically I started writing this ( my second comment under this video and solely 2nd tonight ) all I wanted to say It just reminds me of Depeche mode and it's style. That music. And also that digits of letters and numbers style. Segments I suppose.
Haha...I know that album, I think I have the CD... It's a compilation...now it's bugging me too 🤣
There's also the 3d printed direct drive mount for Steves, which can be used to try out direct drive for free.
I think it works fairly well too?
@@LostInTech3D I haven't used it myself, but I've only heard good things about it.
That's what I have loaded on mine and it has really stood up to the test of time. The other thing that really helped with an Ender 3 is an extrusion idler that utilizes perpendicular force instead of lever arm action. Really helps to stop TPU from doing the noodly escape routine.
It's decent, but designed for hard filaments, not TPU. Still has alot of wiggle room right by the gear allowing for noodling
As always thought provoking and interesting. your videos are always spot on and provide a great insight into 3D printing.
I have had good sucess printing 95A on both bowden and direct drive printers. I havent really needed to print anything much softer.
I do use it to create molds that I cast concrete into, this is perfect as you need the structure to stay put and hold shape until the concrete is set but also gives when you need to demoulding. I use the whole printing process and design of the mold(structural thickness and also infill within the design) to augment the material ang gain additional properties of the part.
I must admit I do have some samples of ninja flex I got in sample boxes that I cant bring myself to print as I know it will just go to waste....
The NinjaFlex I have is apparently 85A, and it prints beautifully on my stock Ender 3 V2 (bowden), as long as I just print slowly, at maybe 10-15mm/s. A little bit of fine stringing, but then again, I haven't tuned retraction at all. I basically just use the generic TPU profile in Cura, slow it way down, and set my hotend temp to 230 (a bit higher than NinjaFlex recommends).
Thanks do much for this video dude, so much great information for me to think about. And your humor throughout is very much appreciated too!
Having about 5 years of experience printing 85A TPE exclusively (*cough* FUSED footwear *cough*), I just avoid retraction all together and use a combination of coasting and wiping to defuse the pressure in the nozzle before the it moves to a new position. And my favorite way to print is a delta with zesty remote drive. But mine is a pretty specific use case I guess.
I have the FLSun V400 coming and I'm REALLY looking forward to how that machine will compare to my home-built Frankensteins.
the V400 is an absolute beast on every level, I have no criticisms of it even after I think 200h of printing. You won't regret it!
Wow, so happy I found this video and thanks for sharing. I was having the same issue. The issue I'm having now is, my dual drive gears are shredding my PLA filaments when going into the extruder. I have been in social media and here on youtube but I haven't found a solution. Do you have any videos regarding these issues and if you don't can you please make one?
Forgot to mention, my printer is an Ender 3 Pro. I also ordered the direct drive kit cause I got tired of trying to fix the issue with the dual gear drives.
Wow. Amazing. I'm so early here 💯💯💯
Ohhh. I just noticed some comments are here more than the video is so I suppose it's reupload or reposting or just edit of "the same" video
Anyways I'm a huge fan of yours. Don't stop believing. Your content in amazing. I love the approach you take. It's great
Haha I just let patreon members see it slightly earlier so they can get "first" 🤣
Bowden is still mighty useful in a servo-switched dual hotend, but I'm working on that bit.
good point
Because I have no patience, I print everything with a .6 nozzle and fairly fast. The few times I’ve printed tpu I just used my normal pla settings on a cr6 max with a very long bowden tube and had no issues. Nozzle diameter has to be another factor to consider. Great video
It does, I tested it in ...I think the TPU video before last! :)
About the extruder tension needing to be lower, I notice exactly that last time I printed TPU. I have really not a lot of experience with that material, and I wasn't able to print it even tho I managed to print it in the past. Change the extruder to LGX, same problem. Well, there was too much tension. Used the first click on the LGX, printed flawlessly
Interesting, i have a lgx lite, set it to the last click (has only two tension settings and open), reduced the maximum speed to 150mm/s (you have read right, 150), hit go and a beautiful phone case came out, but not usable, bad stl (came out to large).
A thing i did to counter my TPU escaping from the feeder is that i printed a small insert i wedged in between the gears and the part the bowden tube is attached to which closes all the gaps it can escape from, never had any issues since.
Excellent presentation! Direct drive is the future!
Thank you, and agreed...DD is the only way 😅👍
Set retraction to 10mm and print at 20mm/s for TPU on bowden. all problems solved
I use the same method of letting the wire slip in my MIG welder at work, so if it does have a blockage at the tip, it doesn’t make a rats nest in the feed wheels.
I always run my extruder tension crew one turn tight from the minimum with TPU, Using cura 4.13 ender 3 pro PLA profile just turn off the bed heat works good far better than the tpu profile for said printer. Great video thanks.
95a has been hell to try and print larger prints with the print would start ok but after a while i got terrible stringing and the nozzle clogged im going to try a 0.6 nozzle instead and play with the settings your videos have helped immensely any other things i should try.
I've been surprised how well my Anet A8 has been printing with TPU. I suppose with it being direct drive then that's a great benefit. I find that hot and slow with a little more retraction works good.
This is brilliant! Basically You have make me into trying and printing in TPU. And now I'm exploring this subject, and making things that otherwise no one would thing to print in TPU or that would not function if not made with TPU or another elastic filament. The only thing I don't like in TPU - it is hygroscopic like table salt :/. I do fly my DD Ender 3 with Kipper, so I do use pressure advance, yet the advice to tune it especially for one speed and TPU is a gem (I would be happy to see guide on it). SuperSlicer (or Prusa) can have custom gcode per filament, I did figured how to add per filament setting in Cura - yet I miss custom gcode (I'm waiting for tree support in SuperSlicer).
Keep on good work!
I only recently heard how hygroscopic TPU is...I am very surprised to hear about it as I've never really noticed!
@@LostInTech3DI've had issue with printing fresh spool (the fist one ever ;) ) from F3D Filament (stringing and differences between spool and web page description), so I've call them. A+ support from a guy that is on the same page , and I've got advice to dry it well at 70C. That solves a lot of issues.
I didn't know that people were saying to increase tension with TPU. I dealt with stuff myself an figured that when I use it with my Prusa MK3 S I would decrease the tension by about 1 screw rotation. Else it would chew up the filament. Later I also got into volumetric flow limits and now printing that stuff isn't as dramatic anymore. Though it's till not very fast with the standard extruder. Speaking about 70A and direct drive here.
What happens if I have a dual gear bow end?
Will it work?
I’m a using 95a Esun glass blue tpu
There's a setting in cura which lowers flow x mms before travel move to compensate pressure.
This reminds me of how caulk guns will drool a while after you release pressure on the handle. The caulk tubes bow outwards when caulking, storing energy that's released once you let up. You can wrap them in duct tape to stiffen them up and lessen the effect.
Thank you for information. NOW I interested 5 axis 3d printer for saving support pole and hope we will get a brand new 3d printer design soon.
The hard part is slicing the model for that!
I got an ender 3 last week and printed 70a tpu my first prints lol so maybe beginners luck?
SO... input shaping for marlin, in the next release. that one has to be on your list to deep dive into?
I mentioned it in the news last ...week...ish, but yep I'm on it!
Hello, thanks for your tpu videos, they have helped me a lot.
but I have a question, do I have to adjust the cooling or fan? thank you
I run the fan at full speed
@@LostInTech3D gracias 👍
Hey! Can you please let me know that how you connected a touchscreen on your ender 3 v2?
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Great video tho.!:)
ua-cam.com/video/xe2lBoC9mDY/v-deo.html
It´s pretty easy I printed lots of TPU parts on my Ender 2 back in the day. Just install a push thorugh fitting and use some PTFE tube which goes right up to the extruder wheels. Containing the material path in that way and using PTFE is great in general. Also get rid of any friction before the extruder on the filament reel, it should be extremely easy to unreel the spool.
All my new printers are direct drive because i didn't want to have to deal with TPU printing issues.
Now you've got me wondering if I can design a way of adding a load cell the the Bowden where it leaves the extruder to get live/logged pressure readings.
come talk to a guy on our discord who is totally trying this kinda thing
@@LostInTech3D I'll try find my way in there, cheers.
@@LostInTech3D got my discord back online, don't know how to find your group.
Its likely different for me, as I run a direct drive, but for me I find cranking the thumb screw on the extruder tight as frig and using low retraction (0.5) with extremely high travel speed and acceleration (500mm/s, 7500mm/s^2 accel) lets me print TPU at 100mm/s with little to no oozing. (Im using a klipperized CR-20 with a DDX direct drive upgrade)
You really are shooting yourself in the foot printing TPU on a bowden, yea it can be done, but sheesh at what cost (i hate printing slow).
Also to nitpick your video, 9.8 newtons is not 1kg, the force due to gravity on a 1kg mass is 9.8kg/m/s^2, or 9.8 newtons.
Haha, appreciate the nitpick :)
I have an ender 3 s1 (direct drive extruder) but i’m having a really hard time printing fliaflex 82A. I don’t know why but my flow is really inconsistent besides all the tests i made. Could it be a problem of the extruder itself? Maybe it’s not tight enough and doesn’t grip the filament well. If someone has some advice i would be really grateful!
Watch my most recent two tpu videos and you will find out why.
direct drive dual gear?
How do I print with all metal heatbreak? Never seen anyone talk about it in depth, but switching to all metal after my ptfe lined one broke made my printer unusable. It keeps on clogging with ABS, so I'm not even trying with PLA.
Ah, well, that's the downside with all metal, it is more prone to heat creep. If you look up what heat creep is you might get some answers why it's doing it, but hop on to discord if you need any further help
Keep the all metal hotend for advanced plastics that need crazy high temps that your PTFE cant handle (over 245c). I use all metal for Nylon, ABS, etc. Keep a PTFE lined hot end for TPU, PLA, PETG so you dont get jams in the hotend
@@Fly_High_FPV well, I am mostly printing ABS now and get jams using it. I have a roll of CF Nylon ready for a few prints once I can finish the repair.
"Loosen your screw a bit" - best advice ever Relax, goof & let others!
easy way to get around that problem use a direct drive simple the bowden printer i have a elegoo neptune 2 i use creality print software works perfect for me even on my direct drive ender 3 s1 pro creality print is all ready setup up for all ender printers and elego printer work
I have never had any real many problems with TPU as i print at 20 speed and the build plate at zero temperature and the printing temperature at 228 c i just get some fine stringing which nothing. I do have some problems with PETG with some failing at about 3/4 of the print. PLA all depends on the make and i find SUNLU and GEEETECH to be the best. Hope this comment helps.
The more I watch, the angrier I get with tpu
Channel that anger 🤣
yes this works for me ...
I have a Biqu H2 V2s direct drive extruder/hotend combo and it still jams with 93a TPU like a mofo but yeah, the key to success is to NOT slow down but to somehow manage the pressure. I'm not quite there yet, if anyone has a surefire fix on terms of settings, I'm all ears. Ender 3 with the Biqu, using Klipper and mostly a 0.6 nozzle.
Is that "the log"? It's supposed to be good with TPU, I wonder what's happening there. I managed to tame the sv06 extruder by slowing down retract and deretract speed, that might be of some help.
I have some Overture purple TPU. says it's 95A, but it's closer to 80A. Need all these tricks, a 0.6mm nozzle, and 15mm/s speed too.
you need to try to up the speed, 15mm/s typically gives poor wall quality. Try lower line height or something, to get the same flow rate, aim for around 25mm/s if you can :)
@@LostInTech3D mmm, k. I'll try it.
What kind of extruder do you have? Some are better suited for tpu (lgx, genuine bmg) while others not, like Steve's extruder in the video
Hey no dissing Steve 😁
(You're right though, the creality one is pretty average)
@@LostInTech3D steve is a good boy, but the extruder design is, lets say, kept simple or minimalstic
For silk is 0.5 to low for retraction
so i have figured out why it was working fine a few months ago but the same stuff wort work now it was winter and -30C now its basically summer and my house is hot AF
You can switch to the hero me cooling system and get direct drive for free.
Wow that thing supports a tonne of printers! 👀
@@LostInTech3D HeroMe gen 7 supports even more, not sure if it has been publicly launched yet. There is also HeroMe magnet edition for patreon members only.
The PTFE tube need to be lubed. No joke. It works absolutely way better. I print like this on my ender 3V2 with bowden tube and TPU
Also i use absolutely constant speed, acceleration is high (1500) and linear (S curve is a disaster). 10mm retraction is just fine.
Lubed with what? PTFE is the 2nd lowest friction material in the known universe...
Just use a high flow hotend NagWeird
o "K"
Going to flex on everyone and say I've never had a tpu print fail because of the extruder
flex 👀
Hahaha I might be guilty of asking you if you're in your 20s.
Because your extruder sucks at TPU. Grab an EZR Struder, i fucking love printing TPU.
BTW, i've tested dozens of extruders. My favorite 2 were the EZR Struder andnthe $179 MicroSwiss DD Kit with All Metal Hotend. EZR vs MicroSwiss all metal DD kit...same print quality z but DD is alot more maintenance...as a TPU farmer, i still say Direct Drive for TPU is a mistake
first :^)
Your videos are very good but you talk so funny deretract lol
I think you should write a script to make your videos better and to skip the "i'm not an engineer so i'm going to make mistakes".
A script? 👀
@@LostInTech3D You know, like Arabic script :)