In the video @jmcrofts talks about "two things having to go right". There's a term in Magic: The Gathering theory called "set-up cost". This is how much you have to get prepared before you get the payoff for something. If you have to play a card at exactly the right time. or after getting the board into a specific state, it's a much higher "set-up cost" than something you could play anytime. That doesn't mean you don't want to do it, it just means it has to be really important. I think this idea of having to get the meter, do the install and then land the move matches the "set-up cost" concept well. It has to be really powerful to justify the "set-up cost".
Wasn't a magic player but they talked about this in YGO too, iirc it was called card speed or cost speed. Interesting how tcg and fg go hand in hand sometimes.
@@LordKnightfgc yeah moving from yugioh to strive was not that hard for me outside of the execution and motion inputs. But the basic mind games and opportunity cost was something I already understood
@@LordKnightfgccost speed is mad important in tcgs, especially yugioh, where everyone is trying to build their wincon ASAP. considering that the average ygo game ends within 4 turns(2 back and forths), being able to set up and restrain interaction points with as little interaction points as possible is so important, to the point that singular interruption cards can shift how the game is formulated and decks are built. My favorite example is Nibiru, a card that does so well against combo oriented decks that it’s basically a burst if you draw it turn one, and changed the meta to a “can i build a negate within 5 summons and still get my end board” simulator for YEARS. The meta got to the point where everyone was able to do this, so we ended with resource management being the king, whoever could do the most with the least and keep more in hand, it made learning fg stuff pretty easy outside of execution
@@yugimumoto1Seeing that you said the transition was not hard becomes hilarious post-Asuka who is simultaneously "Card Game: The Character" and the most complex character in the game.
17:40 sometimes i forget how og LK is then i see this picture of him sitting next to tokido with shades on, and what is now a $500+ Hori VLX that NOBODY in their right mind would carry to a major, sitting on his lap, as he does blank button mixups. he has become one with fighting games.
Another thing to note is that Chun's super could punish tons of moves on *hit* , so if she had it you might have had to change your routing or give up a confirm to stay safe. This was another thing that made the matchup tough for Claw, Crouch HP and especially Stand HK are normally decent chargeless enders, but they're both unsafe on hit against Chun with super.
Sf4 Chun's MK super is glitched and is actually one frame when used in reversal punishes. It can punish -1 moves. Which is kinda wild. Moves like Bison's LK scissors become punishable. Ken and Ryu fireball are punishable ON HIT. Its very powerful although costly
11:20 another thing I noticed is apparently when Thorsten does the ToD, he builds the meter back in the same combo to do another ToD in the next round!
One thing LK didn't mention about Chroming Rose is that GG Supers have a universal advantage over other ways of spending meter is that they incur 0 meter penalty, so you can use Chroming Rose, and then if you get a hit with it, you'll basically build back all the meter you spent on it doing a combo and a setup. Btw the super is that fucked it and Millia's never use it, and she's STILL a top 5 character without even using it lol
There're countless broken character and super moves in fighting games, but Load Knight and JMinecrafts introduced many moves I didn't know about. Thank you for this mature contents.
@@KaitouKaijuThere are actually a lot of "install" supers in _(U)MvC3_ that allow the character to still build meter, the majority of them actually. It's just that of those, Morrigan's Astral Vision is by far the most oppressive and commonly seen outside of _maybe_ Vergil's arguably dumber Spiral Sword super. Part of what makes Astral Vision so dumb is that not only does she regularly gain meter in it but that she also got meter-draining fireballs in _UMvC3_ that both also get doubled *and* can be comboed into especially with assists. Depending on the team composition, she can *easily* drain two entire bars from a character in a single combo, giving her two more instances of Astral Vision just from that, meaning the super can easily gain her a positive amounts of meter. (She also got the universal fly unfly cancels in _UMvC3_ that make her nigh impossible to punish. Fun.) Honestly, the arguably worst thing about Astral Vision isn't even directly Astral Vision itself or her stupid the meter gain options. It's the frankly *absurd* amount of chip damage her fireballs individually, especially since with Astral Vision there's usually four on screen at any one time, with two coming from behind you. So just trying wait her out still sees you chipped half to death...off of one bar...that she tends to easily build back if you're forced to block everything unless you're playing one of the few characters who can largely just avoid her stupidity for one reason or another. In a way it's "funny" how one of the most oppressive things in the entire game is a Lv. 1 super that more often than not (more than) replaces itself.
I'd still say that the MOST broken fighting game super that wasn't broken just because of high damage or something is still 100% Labcoat 21's release Photon Pulse. Like, I cannot stress how unfathomably broken that move was on launch and anybody who's played DBFZ in the past 2 years would agree. For those of you who don't know, Photon Pulse, Labcoat 21's alternate level 1, was a frame 4 invincible command grab that comes out in 21 frames and is most infamous for reducing the overall damage output of a character that got hit by it by 21% FOR THE ENTIRE REST OF THE MATCH. Not only that, but her own special move damage would be buffed by 21% for the rest of the match. That by itself is already incredibly toxic, but not only could she combo into her grab herself, but because of the combo tag mechanic in the game, any character could tag her in and let her do her level one and then instantly complete her win condition, which was buffing herself and nerfing the character. So just in review, for the low-low cost of ONE BAR, you would get: - A frame 4 reversal - An unreactable command grab since her grab didn't have a super flash to indicate that it was coming out - Completely butchering your opponent's damage for the rest of the match, meaning the character was either going to die or would have to do infinitely more work if they somehow survived - Specials that would do 121% damage instead of 100% (while your opponent was dealing 79% damage) - 27 frames of advantage and a soft knockdown, which could be combo'd off of because labcoat was allowed to have one of the only OTG moves in the game - The ability to do all of this off of one hit from any character, which was a win condition - Very low whiff recovery, meaning that if you somehow DID whiff the unreactable command grab super, you couldn't be punished for it - Banned from tournament play, as this super singlehandedly made matches significantly longer than they were because characters fighting against labcoat would take longer to kill
I swear to fuck if A.B.A. Goku Moroha activation isn’t in this vid… most broken super in +R FULL combo on hit, it’s plus on block, makes you be able to cancel ANYTHING into ANYTHING on hit or on block, new fucking DIRTYYYY combo routes, much better frame data. It’s on a timer but it’s still absolutely fucking absurd everything that super does for just 50% meter.
Id be interested to know more about chroming rose, because i always thought that it was kinda okay. You can get counterhit out of bad moon and iron saviour on block, and it incurs meter penalty.
i was hoping the millia example would be her old full screen nonsense projectiles from missing link, because having crazy supers and infinite supers at low health probably shouldn't mix
I thought these moves were supposed to be broken, like not functional in some way, title of video makes it clear we are talking about Actual broken moves, so there is no confusion. However yall only talked about super powerful moves, and it looked like it all worked properly.
Vergil's devil trigger and dark angel. Not only does devil trigger basically give him level 3 x factor but then dark angel can be easily confirmed into from pretty much any hit or DHC plus it causes a crumple state for a full combo followup. All his supers are OP
A special that is broken is what you should do next and if you do, Project Justice for the Dreamcast. Evil Daigo, I use to always end my combo with a lvl 1 super and then I was able to taunt safely right after to recover my lvl 1 bar I lost.
hold up, arent projectiles unblockable in sf4 during super flash too? i think i remember there being a showcase of chun li pushing the opponent into her fire ball on oki for free damage because her super moves both characters forward a shit ton
Altron from Gundam Battle Assault 2 has one of the worst supers in any fighting game. It doesn’t matter if he set it up with a stun or in a combo. The moment it hits the opponent only needs a whole block and the attack is broken. The timing of the move is so bad that it drops the combo during the attack.
Sure but Cable still has to get the hit. It doesn't do anything except "a lot of damage", so it's not particularly special or interesting to talk about
@@NeoBoneGirl >Sure but Cable still has to get the hit Oh, you mean like j.HP on incoming into AHVB unblockable into death from anywhere on the screen?
@@Rhannmah The reason that's fucked up is universal, Cable is just the character who can take the most advantage of it. Even so, burning like 3 meter for a kill in a team game isnt exactly the most impressive thing in the world.
@@NeoBoneGirl ah, so Cable can open you up real easy? Gotcha. It's not about being impressive, it's about being broken, and AHVB sure is. Safe fullscreen frame 2 instant travel beam super that loops into itself is a hell of a lot of good properties. So much in fact that it's one of the best super moves ever made in a fighting game.
I'm slightly upset mortobato from strive didn't make it, even if it's not as broken as some of these examples I still think losing 60% health because you were -1 in a blockstring in a game where meter is gained very quickly is a just a bit strong
When I see these titles I always expect the mobes to be actually broken, like actually malfunctioning, like crashing the game, or having horrifically bad hitboxes, or just doing the opposite of what it's supposed to
Always good to see a Load Knight and JMinecrafts collab
In the video @jmcrofts talks about "two things having to go right". There's a term in Magic: The Gathering theory called "set-up cost". This is how much you have to get prepared before you get the payoff for something.
If you have to play a card at exactly the right time. or after getting the board into a specific state, it's a much higher "set-up cost" than something you could play anytime. That doesn't mean you don't want to do it, it just means it has to be really important.
I think this idea of having to get the meter, do the install and then land the move matches the "set-up cost" concept well. It has to be really powerful to justify the "set-up cost".
Wasn't a magic player but they talked about this in YGO too, iirc it was called card speed or cost speed. Interesting how tcg and fg go hand in hand sometimes.
@@LordKnightfgc yeah moving from yugioh to strive was not that hard for me outside of the execution and motion inputs. But the basic mind games and opportunity cost was something I already understood
@@LordKnightfgccost speed is mad important in tcgs, especially yugioh, where everyone is trying to build their wincon ASAP. considering that the average ygo game ends within 4 turns(2 back and forths), being able to set up and restrain interaction points with as little interaction points as possible is so important, to the point that singular interruption cards can shift how the game is formulated and decks are built. My favorite example is Nibiru, a card that does so well against combo oriented decks that it’s basically a burst if you draw it turn one, and changed the meta to a “can i build a negate within 5 summons and still get my end board” simulator for YEARS. The meta got to the point where everyone was able to do this, so we ended with resource management being the king, whoever could do the most with the least and keep more in hand, it made learning fg stuff pretty easy outside of execution
Sajam and David Sirlin have both had really interesting things to say about design parallels between Magic and fighting games.
@@yugimumoto1Seeing that you said the transition was not hard becomes hilarious post-Asuka who is simultaneously "Card Game: The Character" and the most complex character in the game.
Shout out to Thorsten using his super to kill off a *checks notes* six hit light confirm
but then also BUILDING BACK THE WHOLE BAR during the combo
17:40 sometimes i forget how og LK is then i see this picture of him sitting next to tokido with shades on, and what is now a $500+ Hori VLX that NOBODY in their right mind would carry to a major, sitting on his lap, as he does blank button mixups. he has become one with fighting games.
Another thing to note is that Chun's super could punish tons of moves on *hit* , so if she had it you might have had to change your routing or give up a confirm to stay safe. This was another thing that made the matchup tough for Claw, Crouch HP and especially Stand HK are normally decent chargeless enders, but they're both unsafe on hit against Chun with super.
Sf4 Chun's MK super is glitched and is actually one frame when used in reversal punishes. It can punish -1 moves. Which is kinda wild. Moves like Bison's LK scissors become punishable. Ken and Ryu fireball are punishable ON HIT. Its very powerful although costly
11:20 another thing I noticed is apparently when Thorsten does the ToD, he builds the meter back in the same combo to do another ToD in the next round!
One thing LK didn't mention about Chroming Rose is that GG Supers have a universal advantage over other ways of spending meter is that they incur 0 meter penalty, so you can use Chroming Rose, and then if you get a hit with it, you'll basically build back all the meter you spent on it doing a combo and a setup.
Btw the super is that fucked it and Millia's never use it, and she's STILL a top 5 character without even using it lol
it does apply a tension gain penalty tho lol
It's one of the few supers in the game that does apply tension penalty
There're countless broken character and super moves in fighting games, but Load Knight and JMinecrafts introduced many moves I didn't know about.
Thank you for this mature contents.
Love this series of colabs that you and jmcroft have been doing! Hope you do more if possible in the future.
Man that thorsten stuff is insane, even if he doesnt ToD he already built up another full bar to try again.
watching these supers makes me appreciate Tekken and the fact that you can choose to stay on the ground and not put yourself into messed up 50-50s
"Mom can I have ki charge in my game?"
"We have ki charge at home"
Ki charge at home: 9:33
surprise no one included morigans supper in UMVC3 which clones her i always thought it was the most broken shit of all time
Can’t she build meter as the timer ticks down for another one? Marvel’s crazy, man
@@ShibuNub3305 yeah marvel 3 is just not a well balanced game
@@ShibuNub3305 Its the only install super that allows meter gain, other than dark phoenix
@@KaitouKaijuThere are actually a lot of "install" supers in _(U)MvC3_ that allow the character to still build meter, the majority of them actually. It's just that of those, Morrigan's Astral Vision is by far the most oppressive and commonly seen outside of _maybe_ Vergil's arguably dumber Spiral Sword super. Part of what makes Astral Vision so dumb is that not only does she regularly gain meter in it but that she also got meter-draining fireballs in _UMvC3_ that both also get doubled *and* can be comboed into especially with assists. Depending on the team composition, she can *easily* drain two entire bars from a character in a single combo, giving her two more instances of Astral Vision just from that, meaning the super can easily gain her a positive amounts of meter. (She also got the universal fly unfly cancels in _UMvC3_ that make her nigh impossible to punish. Fun.)
Honestly, the arguably worst thing about Astral Vision isn't even directly Astral Vision itself or her stupid the meter gain options. It's the frankly *absurd* amount of chip damage her fireballs individually, especially since with Astral Vision there's usually four on screen at any one time, with two coming from behind you. So just trying wait her out still sees you chipped half to death...off of one bar...that she tends to easily build back if you're forced to block everything unless you're playing one of the few characters who can largely just avoid her stupidity for one reason or another. In a way it's "funny" how one of the most oppressive things in the entire game is a Lv. 1 super that more often than not (more than) replaces itself.
The High Score Girl Dash manga had a character use the Aulbath bubble loop to win an arcade match.
Then that dude got punched.
I'd still say that the MOST broken fighting game super that wasn't broken just because of high damage or something is still 100% Labcoat 21's release Photon Pulse. Like, I cannot stress how unfathomably broken that move was on launch and anybody who's played DBFZ in the past 2 years would agree.
For those of you who don't know, Photon Pulse, Labcoat 21's alternate level 1, was a frame 4 invincible command grab that comes out in 21 frames and is most infamous for reducing the overall damage output of a character that got hit by it by 21% FOR THE ENTIRE REST OF THE MATCH. Not only that, but her own special move damage would be buffed by 21% for the rest of the match. That by itself is already incredibly toxic, but not only could she combo into her grab herself, but because of the combo tag mechanic in the game, any character could tag her in and let her do her level one and then instantly complete her win condition, which was buffing herself and nerfing the character. So just in review, for the low-low cost of ONE BAR, you would get:
- A frame 4 reversal
- An unreactable command grab since her grab didn't have a super flash to indicate that it was coming out
- Completely butchering your opponent's damage for the rest of the match, meaning the character was either going to die or would have to do infinitely more work if they somehow survived
- Specials that would do 121% damage instead of 100% (while your opponent was dealing 79% damage)
- 27 frames of advantage and a soft knockdown, which could be combo'd off of because labcoat was allowed to have one of the only OTG moves in the game
- The ability to do all of this off of one hit from any character, which was a win condition
- Very low whiff recovery, meaning that if you somehow DID whiff the unreactable command grab super, you couldn't be punished for it
- Banned from tournament play, as this super singlehandedly made matches significantly longer than they were because characters fighting against labcoat would take longer to kill
Bro the production quality has gone up so far
I swear to fuck if A.B.A. Goku Moroha activation isn’t in this vid… most broken super in +R
FULL combo on hit, it’s plus on block, makes you be able to cancel ANYTHING into ANYTHING on hit or on block, new fucking DIRTYYYY combo routes, much better frame data. It’s on a timer but it’s still absolutely fucking absurd everything that super does for just 50% meter.
I think that you forgot that it also refills the Moroha bar.
@@giantdinoboy8264 holy shit yeah that too
Coming from an ABA main that shit is so dirty and disgusting and filthy
moopoke has a compilation of them using shadow chie and just spaming the meteor super
My favorite fact about SF4 Chun Super is that it punishes Honda Hands ON HIT
Id be interested to know more about chroming rose, because i always thought that it was kinda okay. You can get counterhit out of bad moon and iron saviour on block, and it incurs meter penalty.
Now all we need is Sajam to react and the circle of life is complete.
Would like to see you collab with some NRS people like Ketchup or Reo and see the hilarious shit that are in NRS games
he already did the Injustice games with Sajam
@@Inojin67 i mean stuff like MK9 and MKX. Hell throw in classic games like UMK3 or the 3D era MK stuff.
Yall are the Spider-Man and Hawkeye of FGC team-ups. Every one is a banger.
Surprised to not see the Yun Genei Jin super. That shit is broken AF.
Yeah but it's also so damn hard to optimize but once you get it down it is broken AF
Go watch the episode of this series with Justin Wong. He covers Geneijin
We need a game where every character broken. SF5 Rainbow edition.
i was hoping the millia example would be her old full screen nonsense projectiles from missing link, because having crazy supers and infinite supers at low health probably shouldn't mix
Real bout 2 blue mary P power install is sick, makes her top tier.
best ad placement ever
Lord Knight
Litchi super transcends the game into Real life mixups.
Me;
Alright thats kinda broken
I thought these moves were supposed to be broken, like not functional in some way, title of video makes it clear we are talking about Actual broken moves, so there is no confusion. However yall only talked about super powerful moves, and it looked like it all worked properly.
We live in an era where people call jabs broken 😭
Fighting game terminology, broken means overpowered
@@KaitouKaiju naw, calling a powerful move "broken" is just being a scrub, we aint scrubs in here!
SO TRUE
Vergil's devil trigger and dark angel.
Not only does devil trigger basically give him level 3 x factor but then dark angel can be easily confirmed into from pretty much any hit or DHC plus it causes a crumple state for a full combo followup.
All his supers are OP
Literally quit vsav and went back to xrd cause of bubble, last nail in the coffin mind the pun
A special that is broken is what you should do next and if you do, Project Justice for the Dreamcast. Evil Daigo, I use to always end my combo with a lvl 1 super and then I was able to taunt safely right after to recover my lvl 1 bar I lost.
I really was expecting OG GT goku Spirit bomb
beastcoast ad was cursed. no audio
It was just music and it got claimed 💀
hold up, arent projectiles unblockable in sf4 during super flash too? i think i remember there being a showcase of chun li pushing the opponent into her fire ball on oki for free damage because her super moves both characters forward a shit ton
I'm so glad xrd millias arent using that super on netplay
Altron from Gundam Battle Assault 2 has one of the worst supers in any fighting game. It doesn’t matter if he set it up with a stun or in a combo. The moment it hits the opponent only needs a whole block and the attack is broken. The timing of the move is so bad that it drops the combo during the attack.
Poor LK's camera seems to have broken
If ghost oki ain’t on here I’ll be upset literally 4 attempts to mix while building meter with assist
Did they mention Adam Park's super in Power Rangers BFTG?
So... We are not gonna talk about the level 3 super of Vergil from umvc3?
Neither of these players are really marvel guys; maybe they go into that in another ep with another dud.e
I would say the lv3 kamehameha gogeta ss4 after being lv7 👍🏽
Hey, what is the tune playing around the 7 minute mark?
Lord knight picked litchi every one😂
What?
No air hyper viper beam?
Far as i know it's the only super that can combo into itself in a popular game.
Sure but Cable still has to get the hit. It doesn't do anything except "a lot of damage", so it's not particularly special or interesting to talk about
Sentinel TK Hard Drive and Plasma Storm both can combo into themselves in UMVC3
@@NeoBoneGirl >Sure but Cable still has to get the hit
Oh, you mean like j.HP on incoming into AHVB unblockable into death from anywhere on the screen?
@@Rhannmah The reason that's fucked up is universal, Cable is just the character who can take the most advantage of it. Even so, burning like 3 meter for a kill in a team game isnt exactly the most impressive thing in the world.
@@NeoBoneGirl ah, so Cable can open you up real easy? Gotcha.
It's not about being impressive, it's about being broken, and AHVB sure is. Safe fullscreen frame 2 instant travel beam super that loops into itself is a hell of a lot of good properties. So much in fact that it's one of the best super moves ever made in a fighting game.
I'm slightly upset mortobato from strive didn't make it, even if it's not as broken as some of these examples I still think losing 60% health because you were -1 in a blockstring in a game where meter is gained very quickly is a just a bit strong
Mortobato? Who?
we need more millia hate! she deserves it
Definitely in Xrd and XX, Millia hate represent
Imagine if ky was viable enough to be hated by the fgc. We would be eating good.
This is a Millia safe space 😭😭😭
What song plays on 4:10?
ckoha's cactus?
I need to know the song used on 4:15
I always thought that Millia super was garbage. But I'm bad so what do I know
We need Dios THE WORLD
It's not even the most broken in that game
Its bad in HFTF, idk about ASB
@@USDebtCrisis I know I still love it though
i would add from blazblue's kokonoe's first iteration of her black hole, which was completely unblockable and she was invincible during it.
Half the characters in ST could be on this list.
The song at 6:46 ??????????
I can make marvel 3 examples but those are mega easy
When I see these titles I always expect the mobes to be actually broken, like actually malfunctioning, like crashing the game, or having horrifically bad hitboxes, or just doing the opposite of what it's supposed to
chrooming rose is broken?? why does dustloop say its bad?
Dream team 😊
no koko superball?
Black hole before super ball free tbh
@@LordKnightfgc Depends on which version but super ball feels way more degen in current version compared to black hole
cute
niga