As an American of Scottish, Irish and Scandinavian ancestry, I am interested in how all this evolves. Great video, and I commend Jenny for representing her generation.
A great video with lots of sentiments I share. As someone born in England with many friends and family living there I always noticed differences but I also feel a stronger divergence in recent years when I travel between. We don't have to be ruled by one parliament to work effectively together, in fact I feel we will be a much more effective island when one part of the Island doesn't run roughshod over all others.
good lass though i would like to point out that we are not trying to leave Britain we are trying to leave the UK two very different things,one is an island the other is a one sided political union. Also in 2014 we had no intention of leaving the EU if we became independent the threat to our EU future came from westminster saying they would veto us rejoining as an independent Scotland,they then went on one of their propaganda campaigns to misinform the Scottish electorate that we would be out the EU but yet never mentioned why that would be.
My sentiments exactly, I also voted No in the last IndyRef because I didn't want to leave the EU. Voting Yes for an Independent Scotland as part of the European Union next time, lets hope it's soon.
The claim was effective because the media never challenged it. Even if our membership did cease after we became independent and we had to reapply, and that is a big if, we would not have been independent a day after the vote. We would have had at least 18 months to negotiate re-entry and given that we already meet the acquis, it would have been perfectly feasible. Even if we assume joining the EU would have been a stretch in the time scale, we could easily have joined the EEA or EFTA which would have given us the majority of the benefits of EU membership. It has to be remembered, the EU is a fairly pragmatic bunch and it is virtually inconceivable that we would have been left high and dry by them. The various pronouncements by Spanish politicians (as part of a quid pro quo deal they did with Cameron for him to pour cold water on Catalan independence) were careful not to explicitly talk about Scotland. The UK is the member and UKG (and only they) could have asked the EU for a ruling and got a definite answer but they declined. Given that it would have helped their case if they had got the answer they wanted, you have to ask why they didn't make the enquiry.
@@pauldow7529 As well as a fairly pragmatic bunch, the EU is tied to observe ECHR human rights. It was, and is, required by its own law to leave us high and dry if we commit the obscene tainting hate crime whose proposing in the White Paper caused me to vote No. Which is, if we leave our own diaspora high and dry without automatic citizenship rights. Still now, as ever since the White Paper, Yes movement or Scottish govt have never said that parental descent citizenship will be unrefusable. As during the ref, Alex Neil, Pat Kane, Jim Sillars, Helensburgh Yes, and the Radical Indy stall at Commonweal's big day, all actively defended to me having it refusable, and ther sources said leave it until after the vote to decide. They have continued to choose not to lose from their own movement's numbers base the bigot vote. You need to know of my EU petition 1448/2014. It is always there as a legal resource for anyone to fite our use, and it was not the naive requesting type of petition, it's a citation of ECHR article 8, family life. That compliance with this obliges the EU to disown and shun us as an international pariah racist state, no dealings with us, unless as an explicit part of our ECHR compliance, our parental descent citizenship,is unrefusable.
@@conscienceaginBlackadder What on earth are you havering about? Can you quote the exact section of the white paper you are referring to that would be in contravention of the ECHR and the specific clause within the ECHR that you say is applicable? I think you are making some sort of point about rules for citizenship; that would be a matter for future governments of an independent Scotland. The White Paper was an indication of what could be done and the sort of policies an SNP run SG might do in an independent Scotland. It did not however tie the hands of all future governments. Furthermore I find it rather ironic that you are criticising the SNP on immigration and nationality whilst the UKG is doing its damnedest to kick out people born overseas and who have been here for 50 or more years.
@@conscienceaginBlackadder Below is the section from the White Paper relating to citizenship and I am intrigued to know how you have concluded that it is racist or leaves our " diaspora high and dry without automatic citizenship rights.". "Citizenship: The choices open to us Deciding who is a citizen is a defining characteristic of an independent state and future Scottish governments will have the power to determine rules on citizenship and nationality. Our priorities for action: At the point of independence, this Government proposes an inclusive model of citizenship for people whether or not they define themselves as primarily or exclusively Scottish or wish to become a Scottish passport holder. People in Scotland are accustomed to multiple identities, be they national, regional, ethnic, linguistic or religious, and a commitment to a multi-cultural Scotland will be a cornerstone of the nation on independence.We plan that British citizens habitually resident in Scotland on independence will be considered Scottish citizens. This will include British citizens who hold dual citizenship with another country. Scottish born British citizens currently living outside of Scotland will also be considered Scottish citizens. Following independence, other people will be able to apply for Scottish citizenship. For example, citizenship by descent will be available to those who have a parent or grandparent who qualifies for Scottish citizenship. Those who have a demonstrable connection to Scotland and have spent at least ten years living here at some stage, whether as a child or an adult, will also have the opportunity to apply for citizenship. Migrants on qualifying visas will also have the option of applying for naturalisation as a Scottish citizen.The UK allows dual or multiple citizenship for British citizens. If a British citizen acquires citizenship and a passport of another country, this does not affect their British citizenship, right to hold a British passport or right to live in the UK. The Scottish Government will also allow dual citizenship. It will be for the rest of the UK to decide whether it allows dual UK/Scottish citizenship, but we expect the normal rules to extend to Scottish citizens." www2.gov.scot/resource/0043/00439021.pdf
@@pauldow7529 Because "available" is an ambiguous word and does not mean "unrefusable", Simple as that- a thing can be available but refusable. Parental descent was not written into the automatic categories of citizenship, and neither in the White Paper nor to any enquiries after it has Yes ever been willing to say tbat the applications for it will be unrefusable. Alex Neil confirmed in a Yes campaign meeting that it would be refusable and said it was because of "undesirables" -you must spot that that could mean the poor. Pat Kane was completely blunt that he thought it should be refusable and the indy project be entirely for the resident population. Leith govt policy officer Nickola Paul, for the White Paper's writers, said "any discretionary elemerts", i.e. refusability, would only be decided after a Yes vote. Salmond, when I got in hs last phone-in asking about this, only waffled. So the piece of White Paoer I quote to you is exactly the same piece as you quoted to me. The ECHR provision I have always quoted is article 8, family life. To include residence and birth but not descent cuts across families arbitrarily, treats siblings differently, so divides families, and to reject folks from their own country and not regard it as their own country divides families, stopping them coming together to care for each other and share their resources. There is no moral doubt that rejecting folks from their own country and people, regarding parental descent Scots as not Scots, is morally more evil than all tbe Tory evils. It is not safe to leave it to post-indy govts to decide, for the obvious reason that it lets them decide wrongly. Will you walk into my parlour said the spider to the fly. It has been said that our state will be compliant with ECHR. Citing article 8, it can be and needs to be made explicit that our ECHR compliance binding successive govts will include unrefusable parental descent citizenship.
Wee Alba Book, newly published by the Alba Party, 9-22, given out at demos. p55 " The plans for how to manage Scottish citizenship were set out at the last ref and still apply. Anyone born in Scotland or born to Scottish parents or grandparents will have an automatic right to citizenship, as will people resident at the time of independence." Claiming this was the position in the last ref is of course spin lies. Salmond himself would not say this position to me as a caller on his last ref phone-in. The White Paper and Yes policy last time, which the SNP has still never budged from, was a racist shocker appealing to the same type of nasty anti-outsider voters as Brexit. It made citizenship by descent refusable, it made citizenships by birth or residence conditional on preexisting British citizenship. But that history only matters to defending that I + we were right to vote No because of it. Even if Salmond was not saying the right position then, his party is now. This new booklet corrects the citizenship policy + states the perfect line on it. But it states it just for the Alba Party. So does the Yes movement agree with it? Do the other indy parties agree with it?
These videos are so encouraging. Indeed, they are life-affirming. Keep 'em coming.
Great vid, I love the enthusiasm, very endearing.
As an American of Scottish, Irish and Scandinavian ancestry, I am interested in how all this evolves. Great video, and I commend Jenny for representing her generation.
A great video with lots of sentiments I share. As someone born in England with many friends and family living there I always noticed differences but I also feel a stronger divergence in recent years when I travel between.
We don't have to be ruled by one parliament to work effectively together, in fact I feel we will be a much more effective island when one part of the Island doesn't run roughshod over all others.
Better neighbours than part of a union
That struck me deep
good lass though i would like to point out that we are not trying to leave Britain we are trying to leave the UK two very different things,one is an island the other is a one sided political union.
Also in 2014 we had no intention of leaving the EU if we became independent the threat to our EU future came from westminster saying they would veto us rejoining as an independent Scotland,they then went on one of their propaganda campaigns to misinform the Scottish electorate that we would be out the EU but yet never mentioned why that would be.
Love it
My sentiments exactly, I also voted No in the last IndyRef because I didn't want to leave the EU. Voting Yes for an Independent Scotland as part of the European Union next time, lets hope it's soon.
The claim was effective because the media never challenged it. Even if our membership did cease after we became independent and we had to reapply, and that is a big if, we would not have been independent a day after the vote. We would have had at least 18 months to negotiate re-entry and given that we already meet the acquis, it would have been perfectly feasible. Even if we assume joining the EU would have been a stretch in the time scale, we could easily have joined the EEA or EFTA which would have given us the majority of the benefits of EU membership.
It has to be remembered, the EU is a fairly pragmatic bunch and it is virtually inconceivable that we would have been left high and dry by them. The various pronouncements by Spanish politicians (as part of a quid pro quo deal they did with Cameron for him to pour cold water on Catalan independence) were careful not to explicitly talk about Scotland. The UK is the member and UKG (and only they) could have asked the EU for a ruling and got a definite answer but they declined. Given that it would have helped their case if they had got the answer they wanted, you have to ask why they didn't make the enquiry.
@@pauldow7529 As well as a fairly pragmatic bunch, the EU is tied to observe ECHR human rights. It was, and is, required by its own law to leave us high and dry if we commit the obscene tainting hate crime whose proposing in the White Paper caused me to vote No. Which is, if we leave our own diaspora high and dry without automatic citizenship rights.
Still now, as ever since the White Paper, Yes movement or Scottish govt have never said that parental descent citizenship will be unrefusable. As during the ref, Alex Neil, Pat Kane, Jim Sillars, Helensburgh Yes, and the Radical Indy stall at Commonweal's big day, all actively defended to me having it refusable, and ther sources said leave it until after the vote to decide. They have continued to choose not to lose from their own movement's numbers base the bigot vote.
You need to know of my EU petition 1448/2014. It is always there as a legal resource for anyone to fite our use, and it was not the naive requesting type of petition, it's a citation of ECHR article 8, family life. That compliance with this obliges the EU to disown and shun us as an international pariah racist state, no dealings with us, unless as an explicit part of our ECHR compliance, our parental descent citizenship,is unrefusable.
@@conscienceaginBlackadder What on earth are you havering about? Can you quote the exact section of the white paper you are referring to that would be in contravention of the ECHR and the specific clause within the ECHR that you say is applicable?
I think you are making some sort of point about rules for citizenship; that would be a matter for future governments of an independent Scotland. The White Paper was an indication of what could be done and the sort of policies an SNP run SG might do in an independent Scotland. It did not however tie the hands of all future governments. Furthermore I find it rather ironic that you are criticising the SNP on immigration and nationality whilst the UKG is doing its damnedest to kick out people born overseas and who have been here for 50 or more years.
@@conscienceaginBlackadder
Below is the section from the White Paper relating to citizenship and I am intrigued to know how you have concluded that it is racist or leaves our " diaspora high and dry without automatic citizenship rights.".
"Citizenship: The choices open to us Deciding who is a citizen is a defining characteristic of an independent state and future Scottish governments will have the power to determine rules on citizenship and nationality.
Our priorities for action: At the point of independence, this Government proposes an inclusive model of citizenship for people whether or not they define themselves as primarily or exclusively Scottish or wish to become a Scottish passport holder. People in Scotland are accustomed to multiple identities, be they national, regional, ethnic, linguistic or religious, and a commitment to a multi-cultural Scotland will be a cornerstone of the nation on independence.We plan that British citizens habitually resident in Scotland on independence will be considered Scottish citizens. This will include British citizens who hold dual citizenship with another country. Scottish born British citizens currently living outside of Scotland will also be considered Scottish citizens. Following independence, other people will be able to apply for Scottish citizenship. For example, citizenship by descent will be available to those who have a parent or grandparent who qualifies for Scottish citizenship. Those who have a demonstrable connection to Scotland and have spent at least ten years living here at some stage, whether as a child or an adult, will also have the opportunity to apply for citizenship. Migrants on qualifying visas will also have the option of applying for naturalisation as a Scottish citizen.The UK allows dual or multiple citizenship for British citizens. If a British citizen acquires citizenship and a passport of another country, this does not affect their British citizenship, right to hold a British passport or right to live in the UK. The Scottish Government will also allow dual citizenship. It will be for the rest of the UK to decide whether it allows dual UK/Scottish citizenship, but we expect the normal rules to extend to Scottish citizens."
www2.gov.scot/resource/0043/00439021.pdf
@@pauldow7529 Because "available" is an ambiguous word and does not mean "unrefusable", Simple as that- a thing can be available but refusable. Parental descent was not written into the automatic categories of citizenship, and neither in the White Paper nor to any enquiries after it has Yes ever been willing to say tbat the applications for it will be unrefusable.
Alex Neil confirmed in a Yes campaign meeting that it would be refusable and said it was because of "undesirables" -you must spot that that could mean the poor. Pat Kane was completely blunt that he thought it should be refusable and the indy project be entirely for the resident population. Leith govt policy officer Nickola Paul, for the White Paper's writers, said "any discretionary elemerts", i.e. refusability, would only be decided after a Yes vote. Salmond, when I got in hs last phone-in asking about this, only waffled.
So the piece of White Paoer I quote to you is exactly the same piece as you quoted to me. The ECHR provision I have always quoted is article 8, family life. To include residence and birth but not descent cuts across families arbitrarily, treats siblings differently, so divides families, and to reject folks from their own country and not regard it as their own country divides families, stopping them coming together to care for each other and share their resources. There is no moral doubt that rejecting folks from their own country and people, regarding parental descent Scots as not Scots, is morally more evil than all tbe Tory evils.
It is not safe to leave it to post-indy govts to decide, for the obvious reason that it lets them decide wrongly. Will you walk into my parlour said the spider to the fly. It has been said that our state will be compliant with ECHR. Citing article 8, it can be and needs to be made explicit that our ECHR compliance binding successive govts will include unrefusable parental descent citizenship.
👍
#Another500miles cheak it out.
Wee Alba Book, newly published by the Alba Party, 9-22, given out at demos. p55
" The plans for how to manage Scottish citizenship were set out at the last ref and still apply. Anyone born in Scotland or born to Scottish parents or grandparents will have an automatic right to citizenship, as will people resident at the time of independence."
Claiming this was the position in the last ref is of course spin lies. Salmond himself would not say this position to me as a caller on his last ref phone-in. The White Paper and Yes policy last time, which the SNP has still never budged from, was a racist shocker appealing to the same type of nasty anti-outsider voters as Brexit. It made citizenship by descent refusable, it made citizenships by birth or residence conditional on preexisting British citizenship.
But that history only matters to defending that I + we were right to vote No because of it. Even if Salmond was not saying the right position then, his party is now. This new booklet corrects the citizenship policy + states the perfect line on it.
But it states it just for the Alba Party. So does the Yes movement agree with it? Do the other indy parties agree with it?